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October 30th, 2013
08:49 AM ET

Cute kid won't leave Pope Francis alone

(CNN) - A cute little boy joined Pope Francis on stage in St. Peter's Square last weekend during a Catholic celebration of the family and refused to leave, forcing the pontiff to put Jesus' words about "suffering" the little children into practice.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Catholic Church • Pope Francis

soundoff (418 Responses)
  1. mzh

    31:13 – And [mention, O Muhammad], when Luqman said to his son while he was instructing him, "O my son, do not associate [anything] with Allah. Indeed, association [with him] is great injustice."
    31:14 – And We have enjoined upon man [care] for his parents. His mother carried him, [increasing her] in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Be grateful to Me and to your parents; to Me is the [final] destination.
    31:15 – But if they endeavour to make you associate with Me that of which you have no knowledge, do not obey them but accompany them in [this] world with appropriate kindness and follow the way of those who turn back to Me [in repentance]. Then to Me will be your return, and I will inform you about what you used to do.
    31:16 – [And Luqman said], "O my son, indeed if wrong should be the weight of a mustard seed and should be within a rock or [anywhere] in the heavens or in the earth, Allah will bring it forth. Indeed, Allah is Subtle and Acquainted.
    31:17 – O my son, establish prayer, enjoin what is right, forbid what is wrong, and be patient over what befalls you. Indeed, [all] that is of the matters [requiring] determination.
    31:18 – And do not turn your cheek [in contempt] toward people and do not walk through the earth exultantly. Indeed, Allah does not like everyone self-deluded and boastful.
    31:19 – And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."
    31:20 – Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].

    31:21 – And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that upon which we found our fathers. "Even if Satan was inviting them to the punishment of the Blaze?

    The one who is real intelectual, will learn a great lesson from these verses which reveled to mankind 14+ hundreds years ago...

    Human back then did not want to come out of what they saw their fathers worshipping even though was wrong and we still have human doing the same... One can only help himself to get out of these darknesses...

    Peace be upon all of you!!!

    October 30, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      ^^ religious fairy tale babble ^^

      October 30, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • Desert of Paran

      Have you ever wondered why Jesus is referred to as the word of God in your Koran?

      October 30, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Reality # 2

      And now once again, the horror that is Islam:

      http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/005.asp et al

      o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
      o
      "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

      "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

      "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

      "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

      "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

      "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

      "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

      "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

      "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

      "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

      "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

      "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

      "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

      "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

      October 30, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
      • SkepticNY

        And now once again, the horror that is Christianity:

        (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

        October 30, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
  2. Alias

    Until Topher admits that te bible has 3 different accounts of jesus' last words on the cross before he died, we should all stop wasting time debating with him.

    October 30, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      The King James version of the new testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the church of England. There were (and still are) NO original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down 100's of years after the last apostle died. There are over 8,000 of these old manuscripts with no two alike. The king james translators used none of these anyway. Instead they edited previous translations to create a version their king and parliament would approve. So.... 21st century christians believe the "word of god" is a book edited in the 17th century from the 16th century translations of 8,000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls that claim to be copies of lost letters written in the 1st century.

      no wonder it has so many contradictions!

      October 30, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
      • Colin

        It is pretty well accepted by bible scholars that the 100 or so Greek texts that were used to create the First Edition of the King James Bible (I belive 3 editions in total were published) were inferior to the copies we have today. We now have about 5,800 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. The only books in the New Testament that mention events in Jesus' life in any detail are the 4 gospels. The earliest virtually complete copies we have of them date to about 200 CE.

        All 4 gospels were written by people who never met Jesus, and all who wrote between 40-65 years after he died. If it wasn't for the fact that they are considered religios scripture, people who rely on them as factually accuare concerning miracles and the resurrection of Jesus would be written off as every bit as crazy as 911, Kennedy assasination or Area 51 conspiracy nuts.

        October 30, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Colin : It is pretty well accepted by bible scholars that the 100 or so Greek texts that were used to create the First Edition of the King James Bible

          The King James Bible was created from two sources:
          Old Testament (Hebrew / Aramaic) : Massoretic Text
          New Testament (Greek) : Received Text (a corrupted manuscript that a scholar used to practice his Greek).

          BTW : Here are some of the unofficial canons that were consolidated into the official canon in 363 AD.

          o Clement of Rome (95 AD) eight books
          o Ignatius of Antioch (115 AD) seven books
          o Polycarp (108 AD) fifteen books
          o Irenaeus (185 AD), twenty-one books
          o Hippolytus (170–235 AD) twenty-two books
          o fragment of a canon (170 AD) listed twenty-three books
          o Origen (185-254) named all twenty-seven

          October 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
        • Billy

          @Live4Him – a good story gets around dude, don't it? Of course this was before tin cans and a string, so no wonder bits and pieces of the same lore wound up in those chunks.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Billy : so no wonder bits and pieces of the same lore wound up in those chunks.

          You must not know that a canon is a list (as in list of books)? So, these lists only named the manuscript that they knew came from one of the apostles. So it has nothing about what the books contained.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
        • Colin

          100 or so manuscripts, L4H. They apparently had about 100 different manuscripts of the Greek NEw Testament.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
      • Live4Him

        @Dyslexic doG : There were (and still are) NO original texts to translate.

        So, your argument is that since papyrus doesn't last forever (nothing does on earth), they are somehow corrupt? Why?

        @Dyslexic doG : The oldest manuscripts we have were written down 100's of years after the last apostle died.

        They were written down less than 65 years after Christ's death on the cross. There were canons created around 95 AD which list many of the NT manuscripts, with latter ones becoming more complete until 325 AD when these disparate canons were consolidated into today's canon.

        @Dyslexic doG : There are over 8,000 of these old manuscripts with no two alike.

        There are 6,500 Greek manuscripts and another 17,500 other language manuscripts (mostly Latin and Aramaic). When these are all compared together, they are 99.9% identical. To me, this ratio far exceeds the "no two alike" criterion you claim. And for the 0.1% difference, almost all could be grouped into one of the follow scribal differences: word order, tense, and spelling differences.

        October 30, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
        • Live4Him

          BTW – a fragment from the book of Mark has been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, dating prior to 70 AD.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
        • Rah Ra!

          The god(s) of the ancient Egyptians did a better job of it - inscribed their stuff in stone, still extant. Your guy was pretty lame at it.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
        • Billy

          " they are 99.9% identical."

          I don't think so. Sources please.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Rah Ra! : The god(s) of the ancient Egyptians did a better job of it – inscribed their stuff in stone

          Yes, but each Egyptian record doesn't always agree with others. So we depend upon Mentho (sp?) who padded the history to justify his argument that Egyptian civilization is the oldest society.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
        • ME II

          @Live4Him,
          Re: Mark in Dead Sea Scrolls.

          You mean....
          "Spanish Jesuit José O'Callaghan Martínez has argued that one fragment (7Q5) preserves a portion of text from the New Testament Gospel of Mark 6:52–53.[36] This theory was recently falsified in the year 2000 by paleographic analysis of the particular fragment.[37]" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls)

          October 30, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Billy : I don't think so. Sources please.

          Computer analysis of all the known New Testament manuscripts reveal only 0.1 percent variance. That means that 99.9 percent of the manuscripts' contents are in perfect agreement.
          - How the Bible Became a Book, Terry Hall, 1990

          October 30, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
        • Marie

          So what were His last words, L4H???

          October 30, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
        • Rah Ra!

          Live4Him,

          That doesn't change the fact that your alleged god left cr@ppy doc.umentation. A smart one would have known better.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @ME II : This theory was recently falsified in the year 2000 by paleographic analysis of the particular fragment.

          Yes, like the James Ossuary was "falsified" by the experts. However, when this was reviewed by unbiased courts, the ossuary was declared legit. So too, you have biased experts on both sides of the fragment. Each expert will render their subjective opinion on the issue. And exactly HOW did they determine it was false by 'paleographic analysis'? Do you know? Bet you don't.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
        • Billy

          "Computer analysis"

          LOL. OK, so word for word comparison. So, at some point, people got good at copying all or parts of a story – is that what you mean?

          October 30, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Rah Ra! : That doesn't change the fact that your alleged god left cr@ppy doc.umentation.

          What an excellent riposte!

          October 30, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Billy : So, at some point, people got good at copying all or parts of a story – is that what you mean?

          Weren't you the one claiming that 'I don't think so' [regarding the 99.9% transmission accuracy]? Are you now backing away from that claim?

          October 30, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
        • Rah Ra!

          Live4Him,

          For a couple of thousand years millions of ancient Egyptians perhaps went to their graves little clay sun disks clutched to their chests. They were every bit as fervent and convinced in their correctness as you are.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
        • Billy

          So gee, Live4Him, who authored Mark? Was Mark a witness to anything?

          October 30, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
        • Topher

          Mark authored Mark. Though he wasn't an apostle, he did "run with the group" so to speak.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Rah Ra! : They were every bit as fervent and convinced in their correctness as you are.

          Likewise, there are millions of atheists today 'every bit as fervent and convinced in their correctness' as I am.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
        • ME II

          @Live4Him,
          "And exactly HOW did they determine it was false by 'paleographic analysis'? Do you know? Bet you don't."

          I don't, no. Do you know how they verified it?

          "The majority of scholars have not been convinced by O'Callaghan's and Thiede's identification[1][2] and it is 'now virtually universally rejected'.[3][4]" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7Q5)

          It looks to me like their original claim was based on 20 out of 169 letters. Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
        • Billy

          L4H: Weren't you the one claiming that 'I don't think so' [regarding the 99.9% transmission accuracy]? Are you now backing away from that claim?" Good grief. It wasn't a claim as much as it was asking for the evidence (where I then asked for the sources). More importantly – the question of authorship.

          October 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
        • Rah Ra!

          Live4Him
          "@Rah Ra! : They were every bit as fervent and convinced in their correctness as you are.

          Likewise, there are millions of atheists today 'every bit as fervent and convinced in their correctness' as I am."

          And guess what? All conjectures cannot be right (since some are diametrically opposed to others), but they can ALL be WRONG. We don't know what we don't know yet.

          October 30, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
        • Billy

          So what is considered by some to be the earliest Gospel account (where arguably other accounts draw from as a basis), we're just getting what a secretary supposedly made note of from another character that we know little about. OK, so far this sounds unlike most evidence we see for NT "spooky" physics.

          October 30, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
        • ME II

          @Live4Him,
          According to one of the links from the wikipedia article, http://www.stefan-enste.de/7Q5DetailEngl.htm, the original claim was made on an improperly read letter, Iota, misread as Ny.

          "It is quite clear that the vertical stroke in line 2 is the letter Iota. Only the discussion whether 7Q5 is a part of the gospel of Mark made some people question this Iota. The reason is clear: They need a Ny in this place, the Iota-Alpha-sequence would make their desired identification impossible. "

          IE wishful thinking

          October 30, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
    • Topher

      No to the different accounts.
      No to ANY contradictions.
      And no to the gospels written by people who never met Jesus.

      October 30, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
      • Billy

        (wishful thinking)

        October 30, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
        • Topher

          Nope. Truth. Reject what the Bible says if you must, but don't reject it on ridiculous conjectures from atheists who've done no research and don't know what it says.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
        • Billy

          Who authored those accounts, Topher?

          October 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
        • sam

          Oh Topher, please. You know how much research the atheists around here have done. This is YOUR truth. You can enjoy that all you want. That does not make it THE truth.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
        • Topher

          God did through the gospel-writers.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
        • Check

          Topher,

          – You cure leprosy by having a dove killed, dipping a live one in its blood and having it fly around. Also, you have to anoint the toes of the suffer with the blood.–Leviticus 14

          – You discover unfaithful wives when their bellies swell and their thighs rot after they are made to drink some magical water. – Numbers 5

          – Prized striped goats are bred by having the mating parents stare at striped objects. –Genesis 30

          – You may buy, own, sell, and will slaves to your descendants (only foreigners for slaves, though, no Israelis) –Leviticus 25

          –When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy" –Deuteronomy 25

          There are several other similar instances of absolute rubbish that Moses said that this "Lord God" character actually told him, along with a bunch of other rules and laws that are obviously only from the minds of primitive men. How anyone can believe that this stuff came from an omniscient divine being is ludicrous.

          Jesus, as a Jew, would have believed those ridiculous things too; yea, according to you he even wrote it!

          October 30, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
  3. Gol

    Kids always make our well made plans go haywire. Thank you kids for helping us not be so serious.

    October 30, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
  4. Neo Agnostic

    Prayer Changes Nothing.

    October 30, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • Topher

      Prayers answered this morning as my electrical issues were repaired and it didn't take my entire emergency fund to do it. Thank you, LORD.

      October 30, 2013 at 12:52 pm |
      • HotAirAce

        Yup, some god has nothing better to do than keep a believer's vehicle maintenance costs low while allowing innocents to die by the thousands. . .

        October 30, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
      • Fan2C

        Topher,

        What makes you think that "LORD" did it?

        October 30, 2013 at 1:00 pm |
        • Topher

          Because what happened was a good thing.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          If your costs were twice your emergency fund who would get the credit and why?

          October 30, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
        • Topher

          I would for letting things get so bad before I got them fixed.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          What if the failed competent was a very expensive electronics module without the possibility of preventive maintenance or failure prediction?

          October 30, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
        • Fan2C

          Ah, I get it now... he's thanking Lord Kelvin (the noted physicist who did work on studying electricity) !

          October 30, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          "failed component"

          October 30, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
        • AE

          Topher probably is thankful for Lord Kelvin.

          “I believe that the more thoroughly science is studied, the further does it take us from anything comparable to atheism.”

          “If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God.”

          –Lord William Kelvin

          October 30, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
        • Fan2C

          AE,

          "There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement." - Lord William Kelvin

          "X-rays will prove to be a hoax." - Lord William Kelvin

          Good on him for his proven-to-be correct and useful facts - not so much on the others.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
        • AE

          Speaking of X-Rays.

          “Science is experimental, moving forward step-by-step, making trial and learning through success and failure. Is not this also the way of religion, and especially of the Christian religion? The writings of those who preach the religion have from the very beginning insisted that it is to be proved by experience. If a man is drawn towards honour and courage and endurance, justice, mercy, and charity, let him follow the way of Christ and find out for himself. No findings in science hinder him in that way.”

          –William Henry Bragg, winner of the 1915 Nobel Prize in Physics for his contribution to the analysis of crystal structures by means of X-rays.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
      • Neo Agnostic

        So you prayed to "God" for something that you set in motion to get your electrical problems fixed and didn't cost you a fortune? That was all your doing nothing more. Prayer had nothing to do with it. You did it yourself and "God" had nothing to do with it.

        October 30, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
      • aldewacs2

        God is an electrician? Super-sparky?
        I learn something new every day.

        October 30, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Topher

      I'm not going to blame God for it failing, if that's what you're getting at. We live in a fallen world. That's our fault. Second Law of Thermodynamics ... everything in a state of decay.

      October 30, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
      • Fan2C

        "Second Law of Thermodynamics ... everything in a state of decay."

        And that's OUR fault?

        October 30, 2013 at 1:16 pm |
        • Topher

          Man sinned, bringing the entire world under the curse. That's not just man, but everything.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
        • Fan2C

          Topher,

          Well, no wonder the Xindi wanted to destroy Earth and us - we ruined EVERYTHING in the universe!

          October 30, 2013 at 1:25 pm |
        • ME II

          @Topher,
          Actually, didn't God place the curse? He may have cursed the world *because* of man, supposedly, but man did not bring the curse.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
      • HotAirAce

        Why isn't your god responsible for all things, good and bad? How did its perfect plan go awry? Not much of a god. In fact, it doesn't look any more competent than the average human. Hmmmmm. . .

        October 30, 2013 at 1:18 pm |
        • Topher

          How did the plan go awry?

          October 30, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          So it was your god's plan to create humans and for them to sin and experience "bad stuff" for centuries? Sounds more like a dramatic script than a reasonable plan. Hmmmmm. . .

          October 30, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
        • Topher

          HotAirAce

          "So it was your god's plan to create humans and for them to sin and experience "bad stuff" for centuries?"

          Yes. Though you can't say things were bad if you hold the secular worldview. But the plan did include creating man, knowing we would sin so that when He saves us He gets the glory for giving us what we don't deserve. And He gets the glory for sending those to Hell because they deserve that.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Topher, thanks for demonstrating once again and so well why atheism is the more sane position.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
        • sam stone.

          "But the plan did include creating man, knowing we would sin so that when He saves us He gets the glory for giving us what we don't deserve. And He gets the glory for sending those to Hell because they deserve that."

          cute, gopher describes a god who, for purposes of his own mast-ur-abtory fantasties, insures that billions of people (remember, gopher believes in predestination (no free will, gopher)) end up in hell and he gets all butt hurt when someone describes his vindictive, petty, pr1ck god as a vindictive, petty pr21ck. is it offensive, gopher? too bad. it is a cross between sad and amusing that you are going to indoctinate your little baby in your self loathing. you are a coward, and pompous imbecile. you say you want discussion, whereas all you want to do is preach. discussion involves back and forth and it is apparent that you are either unwilling or unable to do this. so, in summary, gopher, shove your bible up your backside.

          October 30, 2013 at 6:31 pm |
      • Charm Quark

        Topher
        Kind of begs the question, why would you want to bring another sinner into this fallen world? Your pending child has already begun decaying, how can you believe such nonsense? If you do why have a child at all?

        October 30, 2013 at 1:19 pm |
        • Topher

          Charm Quark

          "Kind of begs the question, why would you want to bring another sinner into this fallen world?"

          For God's glory.

          "Your pending child has already begun decaying, how can you believe such nonsense?"

          The is true in the secular worldview, too. I don't understand your complaint.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
        • Charm Quark

          Topher
          Not a complaint at all, I wish you all the best. I just hope you will not put the guilt trip that you seem to enjoy so much on an infant. Perhaps you can help me understand. God created everything, although he got the sequences a bit screwed up, so that would mean that he also created the snake/serpent that He used to tempt his human creations into "sinning". Any reason why a loving god would do that in the first instance? It would seem that He wanted mankind to be in your words "fallen", WHY?

          October 30, 2013 at 1:34 pm |
        • Momof4

          Topher,

          Someday when your child is looking at you with those trusting, innocent eyes, expecting you to be telling them real things, I hope your conscience screams at you like mine did when you try to say that stuff out loud to them. I had to stop doing it.

          p.s. They are all fine adults now, btw.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
        • Topher

          Charm Quark

          "Perhaps you can help me understand. God created everything, although he got the sequences a bit screwed up,"

          God didn't mess anything up, though I'm not sure what you're saying here.

          " ... so that would mean that he also created the snake/serpent that He used to tempt his human creations into "sinning"."

          Yes, He would have created the serpent, but Satan used it to give the first lie and talked Eve into taking the fruit. God knew these things would happen — as it was part of His plan — and thus ALLOWED it to happen. But He didn't make Satan or man act. They had free will.

          "Any reason why a loving god would do that in the first instance? It would seem that He wanted mankind to be in your words "fallen", WHY?"

          As I described a a post a few minutes ago, it was all for His glory. He gets glory when He saves us and glory when He gives us what we deserve.

          October 30, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
        • Charm Quark

          Well Topher, your god was insane, creating perfect humans but also Satan to screw his creation up. I am afraid I have to agree with Sam your god is a petty vindictive pr!ck, that needs glory, not so much, He needs money always has and always will need money so the hustlers can keep the scam running.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
        • Topher

          Your money is already His. Along with EVERYTHING money could buy. He doesn't need you or me to give Him money.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
        • Charm Quark

          Note from Nuremburg Topher
          Can you make a sentence using these three words in thirty seconds, hare, hunter, field? If not you would not have had the ability to have children at a certain time and place. Did you pass the test, Topher? Did jesus help you? No my money is going to Dionysus and his vineyard, he always made a very fine wine.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
        • Topher

          What does that do with ... anything?

          Why do you need to go from asking questions and having a civil discussion to spitting out vileness? Typical.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
        • Charm Quark

          Really Topher
          The only vile thing I may have said is that your god is a petty vindictive pr!ck. What did I say that upset you, where is there an ad hominem directed against you? You may have failed my little test, but that is okay with me, nothing personal.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
        • Topher

          Calling God that is highly offensive.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
        • Charm Quark

          Topher
          Is it okay if I call all the other gods petty vindictive pr!cks? Is it just your god that cannot take a little well deserved abuse? So sensitive Topher, sam would be disappointed in you.

          October 30, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
        • Charm Quark

          Topher
          Sorry if I come across as hostile, I do not mean too. It is your belief system and closed mind to anything but the bible that I find quite sad. I would protect you as I would a "slow" friend or relative but it is difficult to refrain from taking a shot at your simple belief system. Topher you believe "I know what I know and no matter what other knowledge there is or will be, it does not have any import". What is scary is that your children will be indoctrinated into the same system; it may take them decades to form their own opinions after being brainwashed, sad.

          October 30, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
        • sam stone.

          calling god that is highly offensive?

          what is the matter, gopher, does the truth hurt?

          put on your big boy pants and deal with it

          October 30, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
      • Igaftr

        Topher
        That is a misrepresentation of the second law ...what you call decay, is not decay at all. What it basically says is that everything is falling into entropy BUT due to the interactions of external energy elements often can form large objects such as galaxies.

        Think of it like an object in a geosynchronous orbit. The object is falling toward earth continuously, but since there are other factors, it falls in a line that makes it fall forever (if in a perfect orbit), but it remains exactly where it is in relation to a point on the ground.

        October 30, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
      • Shadowflash1522

        I swear, Topher, every time you cite the 2nd law of thermo as "everything in a state of decay" I want to come find you and disassemble your car into a pile of nuts, bolts, and body panels. Then I would leave you a note saying, "Sorry about the decay."

        Disorder is not the same as decay. Also, decay does not mean "vanishing from existence."

        Cheers,
        Shadowflash

        October 30, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
  5. guest

    Change of subject: Question, How much (%) of the processed foods on grocery shelves do you think is just "garbage foods"? (Foods that has little to no nutritional value and foods that has harmful ingrediants in them, including loads of sugar and fats.)

    October 30, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
    • Alias

      All of it.
      We are all dead or dying.
      and it is all ________'s fault!

      October 30, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
      • guest

        it's all the FDA's fault, and our's too for just buying it and not complaining.

        October 30, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
  6. Catechism for kids

    Q. 1. Who made you?
    A. God.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 2. What else did God make?
    A. God made all things.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 3. Why did God make you and all things ?
    A. For his own glory.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 4. How can you glorify God?
    A. By loving him and doing what he commands.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 5. Why ought you to glorify God?
    A. Because he made me and takes care of me.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 6. Are there more gods than one?
    A. There is only one God.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 7. In how many persons does this one God exist?
    A. In three persons.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 8. What are they?
    A. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 9. What is God?
    A. God is a Spirit, and has not a body like men.

    --------------------------–

    Q. 10. Where is God?
    A. God is everywhere.

    October 30, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • Mark

      Proverbs 22:6
      Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

      October 30, 2013 at 12:10 pm |
      • truthprevails1

        Too bad some people take that literally and beat the poor children to the point of death!

        October 30, 2013 at 12:25 pm |
      • A Frayed Knot

        Mark,

        Interesting info:

        The author of Proverbs, Solomon, had a son named Rehoboam. Guess what Rehoboam said and did?

        “My father made you work hard, but I’ll make you work even harder. He punished you with whips, but I’ll use whips with pieces of sharp metal!” 1 Kings:12

        And then he proceeded to lose half of the kingdom.

        October 30, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Cardinal Glick: Fill them pews, people, that's the key. Grab the little ones as well. Hook 'em while they're young.
      Rufus: Kind of like the tobacco industry?
      Cardinal Glick: Christ, if only we had their numbers

      October 30, 2013 at 12:13 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      How fast does one have to go around the above circle for it to make sense?

      October 30, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
    • Neo Agnostic

      1. My parents made me.
      2. The Big Bang created the universe.
      3. There is no God.
      4. There is no God.
      5. There is no God.
      6. There is no God.
      7, There is no God.
      8. There is no God.
      9 There is no God.
      10. There is no God.

      October 30, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
      • Deepity

        Oh yeah? Well who made the Higg's Bozon then? (x infinity)

        October 30, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
  7. har

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNe0ZUD19EE&w=640&h=360]

    October 30, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
  8. Colin

    Are the subject and object of this sentence interchangeable?

    October 30, 2013 at 11:36 am |
    • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

      Enough with those kinds of jokes, people. They're unoriginal and dumb. If that's all you have to contribute then think twice about commenting.

      October 30, 2013 at 11:40 am |
      • HotAirAce

        Given the actual, proven and continued behavior of the RCC and all recent Pope-A-Dope's, perhaps such comments are not jokes. Rather than trying to shut down such commentary, perhaps CNN should be demanding the RCC come clean, or did CNN get soft after "Mea Maxima Culpa"and "What The Pope Knew",

        October 30, 2013 at 11:53 am |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          Concur

          October 30, 2013 at 12:07 pm |
        • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

          Examining and criticizing the Vatican's sexual abuse policies and scandals are fair game.

          Making jokes about the pope and the child in this video is just stupid.

          October 30, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
        • WhenCowsAttack

          Belief blog editor, while I agree with you that those jokes are unoriginal and stupid, with that statement you've described about 3/4 of the comments on this entire blog, including comments by atheists about "sky-fairies" and comments by Christians about "all atheists are lying POS's".

          How do you pick and choose which stupid comments to allow and which ones to holler about? Being serious here.

          October 30, 2013 at 12:16 pm |
        • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

          I haven't banned or removed the stupid jokes. I'm just calling them out as lame and hoping people will have something more interesting to add.

          October 30, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
        • Alias

          So I can tell the truth as long as I don't do it in a humerous way.
          Nice standard.

          October 30, 2013 at 12:26 pm |
        • Charm Quark

          Daniel or Steve. Why would you post a non news story that you should be able to perceive is going to bring out the RCC detractors and pedophile jokes? This at best is a fluff piece of news (pun intended).

          October 30, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
        • WhenCowsAttack

          Belief blog editor-

          Ah, just sick of 'em and time to speak up, eh?

          I get ya there. Thanks for the clarification.

          October 30, 2013 at 12:47 pm |
        • sam

          Oh, so now only certain jokes and comments are lame. Selective.

          1)Ignore

          2)Close the comment section.

          Complaining about it only gets you praise from some of our most diehard fake-catholic trolls.

          October 30, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
      • Ryan

        To Daniel:

        That is a great observation! Thanks for calling this out, there have been lot of articles on the "Belief blog" covering the abuse scandals and people have vented out their thoughts adequately in those articles, but this is an article about the Pope talking about not suffering little children from coming to know God, and any cheap shots at the Pope or this cute kid must be called out!

        Thanks for calling attention to this.

        October 30, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
  9. Dyslexic doG

    If I was powerful enough to create the universe, I wouldn't let millions of little children grow sick and die in pain and fear every year.

    that's the difference between me and your god.

    October 30, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • sockpuppet1984

      I'm pretty sure it's not the only difference

      October 30, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
  10. Dyslexic doG

    If I was powerful enough to create the universe, I wouldn't let millions of little children starve to death in pain and fear every year.

    that's the difference between me and your god.

    October 30, 2013 at 11:14 am |
  11. Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Alliance)

    "What a great day for Canadians everywhere! The Winnipeg drummers, playing the "March of 1000 Farts"...as is traditional for the Canadian Royal Family."

    "People in attendance, now gently tossing Cap'n Crunch as the prince passes by...as of course is tradition."

    "Ah, here she comes! Yes, there she is! The aboot-to-be princess of Canada. Isn't she ravishing? So pure of heart, so strong in body, so hot in the face....She is indeed the living symbol of our greatly country. My God, she's beautiful."

    October 30, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      I thought for sure Doc V. would appreciate SP's homage to Canadian royalty...

      October 30, 2013 at 11:25 am |
  12. children of Israel

    The world is sound asleep (1st Thessalonians 4:13-15) *Daniel 12:2*

    October 30, 2013 at 11:02 am |
    • Ctrl + C - Ctrl + V

      Well done. Good mouse skills.

      October 30, 2013 at 11:05 am |
      • Colin

        \It takes a particular degree of cowardice not to use your "real" name even on a totally anonymous blog.

        October 30, 2013 at 1:44 pm |
  13. Monk

    2cnd cor

    14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.

    October 30, 2013 at 10:39 am |
    • Ctrl + C - Ctrl + V

      Nice effort.

      October 30, 2013 at 10:54 am |
  14. Cute Pope won't leave kid alone

    Same old story.

    October 30, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • The heart wants what the heart wants

      The Pope prefers blondes.

      October 30, 2013 at 10:35 am |
  15. palintwit

    How about some nice road kill cake for tea party patriots? Made with real roadkill !! They'll drink Everclear from mason jars to wash it down then they'll head back to their trailer park for some cousin boinking and nascar watching.

    October 30, 2013 at 10:10 am |
    • Apple Bush

      Don't forget some teeth rattling fun smoking the meth!

      October 30, 2013 at 10:21 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Nothin' says lovin' like marrying your cousin.
      If you can't keep it in your pants, keep it in your genes.

      October 30, 2013 at 10:23 am |
  16. Reality # 2

    In Mark 10:13-16, Jesus says " Let the children come to me, and do not stop them, because the the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I assure you that whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it".

    Note there is no mention of cleansing of original sin only the demand to be innocent like a child. And of course the Jewish children in these passages were not baptized into the Catholic religion but had they died right there, Jesus assured them of a place in Heaven.(not the theological inanity of Limbo).

    Another blow to the "sacrament" of Baptism and the economics involved with said wasteful ritual!!!

    And said passage, as per most contemporary NT scholars, is historically authentic. e.g.http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb020.html

    October 30, 2013 at 9:57 am |
    • Live4Him

      @Reality # 2 : Note there is no mention of cleansing of original sin only the demand to be innocent like a child.

      In your understanding, what does it mean to "receive the Kingdom of God" according to this passage?

      October 30, 2013 at 10:13 am |
      • Apple Bush

        Live4Him, how are you today?

        October 30, 2013 at 10:20 am |
        • Live4Him

          Alive and well. How about yourself?

          October 30, 2013 at 10:23 am |
        • Apple Bush

          Same here. I am going to see Evita tonight, I love that show.

          October 30, 2013 at 10:30 am |
        • Apple Bush

          Do you enjoy the theatre L4H?

          October 30, 2013 at 10:39 am |
        • Live4Him

          @Apple Bush : Do you enjoy the theatre L4H?

          Sorry, but no. I don't even go to the movies anymore, get cable TV, etc. I do use Netflix to watch select movies, but that's the extent of my theatre/movie experience.

          October 30, 2013 at 10:43 am |
        • Apple Bush

          Shame, you should get to the theatre and support the arts!

          October 30, 2013 at 10:55 am |
        • Alias

          @live4hin
          You really do need professional help.
          Anyone who abandons society like you do worries me.

          October 30, 2013 at 11:15 am |
        • guest

          Hey Apple Bush, I don't go to the theater either because it is too expensive, and it woouldn't be so expensive if there were not so much greed in the "arts". Did you know that the theaters do not make any money fron the movie, it all comes from the consessions, and they have to overcharge the clients for popcorn and drinks just to make a profit.

          October 30, 2013 at 11:19 am |
        • Apple Bush

          I am referring to live theatre. Not movies.

          October 30, 2013 at 11:25 am |
        • Live4Him

          @Apple Bush : you should get to the theatre and support the arts!

          Never been my cup of tea. There is only so much time in a person's life and they need to pick-n-choose where to spend that time. Second, the arts tend to project a lifestyle that is at odds with my values.

          October 30, 2013 at 11:49 am |
        • Apple Bush

          L4H, that explains a lot about you. No appreciation for the beauty of human expression.

          October 30, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @L4H
          If you haven't already, you check out "The Revisionaries" on Netflix.

          October 30, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        God does not exist. Therefore there is no kingdom.

        Added details for the newbies:

        The Apostles'/ Creed 2013: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

        Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
        and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
        human-created, spirit state of bliss called kingdom of heaven??

        I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
        preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
        named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
        girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

        Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
        the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

        He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
        a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
        Jerusalem.

        Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
        many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
        and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
        Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
        grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
        and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
        called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

        Amen
        (references used are available upon request)

        October 30, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • Monk

      A Misleading “Angel of Light”
      According to the Bible, there is a very simple answer. Posing as “an angel of light,” Satan the Devil has misled millions into following his teachings rather than God’s. (2 Corinthians 11:14) The apostle John showed that Satan’s influence is so extensive that “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19) John knew that Satan was “misleading the entire inhabited earth.”—Revelation 12:9.
      What have been the consequences of this? Satan has promoted religious systems that on the surface appear to be holy. They have “a façade of ‘religion,’” but their true condition is exposed by the evil fruitage they produce. (2 Timothy 3:5, J. B. Phillips; Matthew 7:15-20) Instead of helping to solve mankind’s problems, religion actually becomes part of the problem.
      Do not quickly dismiss that idea as being farfetched or unreasonable. Remember, the very nature of deception is that the one being deceived is unaware of it. The apostle Paul gave an example of this when he wrote: “The things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God.” (1 Corinthians 10:20) Those people would likely have been shocked to think that they were worshiping demons. They thought that they were worshiping a good god, or gods, of some kind. Yet, in reality they had been deceived by “wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places,” who support Satan in his efforts to mislead mankind.—Ephesians 6:12.

      October 30, 2013 at 10:38 am |
      • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Alliance)

        Blah blah blah – you are exceedingly boring

        October 30, 2013 at 11:04 am |
        • guest

          Typical answer of an atheist when someone makes good sence.

          October 30, 2013 at 11:26 am |
        • HotAirAce

          Why is the above good sense? There is no actual evidence for The Babble or any god. You may as well be discussing the intricacies of a non-fiction book or movie.

          October 30, 2013 at 11:34 am |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          Typical non-spelling dumbass christard commenting on what atheists think...

          October 30, 2013 at 11:34 am |
      • Fan2C

        Monk,

        Take it a step further. This "Satan" character could have written (or inspired) the whole dang Bible... toss in a bit of "god of love" schmaltz and promises of eternal bliss, and bingo, they're hooked!

        Dear Mr. Paul of Tarsus,

        It's turtles all the way down...

        October 30, 2013 at 11:24 am |
      • Reality # 2

        AND THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC / SATANIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD

        Joe Smith had his Moroni. (As does M. Romney)

        "Latter-day Saints like M. Romney also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

        Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

        Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around) and the Jinn.

        Jesus and his family had/has Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented. (As do BO and his family)(As do Biden and Ryan)

        The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

        Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie/horn-blowing thingies/satanic creatures" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

        October 30, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
  17. WASP

    if i was the pope i would worry this child was an omen of my doom, seeing the child didn't want to leave his side.

    October 30, 2013 at 9:23 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      He just wants to understand today's youth.
      The boy can demonstrate some of the trends that seem confusing to an old man.
      How do you say "twerk" in Latin?

      October 30, 2013 at 9:32 am |
  18. Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Alliance)

    Cartman: I told your mom you got an F on that social studies test.
    Billy: You wouldnt do that.
    Cartman: Does a bear crap in the woods? And does the pope crap on the broken lives and dreams of 200 deaf boys?

    October 30, 2013 at 9:21 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Too funny!!

      October 30, 2013 at 9:29 am |
  19. Doc Vestibule

    And cue the pedophilia jokes....

    October 30, 2013 at 9:14 am |
    • Topher

      The unfunny and inappropriate pedophile jokes.

      October 30, 2013 at 9:20 am |
      • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Alliance)

        Cartman: Is that something I'd want to do? Is the Pope Catholic, and making the world safe for pedophiles?

        October 30, 2013 at 9:22 am |
      • Honey Badger Don't Care

        And the very funny and highly appropriate priest jokes.

        October 30, 2013 at 9:27 am |
      • Doc Vestibule

        Unfortunately, the RCC is going to be stained with that scandal for a very long time.
        Their priorities have been exposed to the world in a very visceral way.
        As more scandals come to light, even those totally unrelated to s.ex abuse (like embezzlement), the Vatican keeps reinforcing the fact that they're concerned primarly with the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its as.sets.

        Sometimes the only reaction to such a massive betrayal is laughter.
        But the jokes are getting old and repeti/tive....

        October 30, 2013 at 9:29 am |
        • Alias

          Until the church holds itself to te same standards it preaches for everyone else it is a joke.
          They deserve all the bad publicity they get.
          They also deserve jail time, but this life is not fair.

          October 30, 2013 at 11:11 am |
  20. Luke

    Jesus loves the little children,
    All the children of the world,
    Red & yellow, black and white,
    they are precious in his sight,
    Jesus loves the little children of the world

    October 30, 2013 at 9:04 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      I knew that dude hanging out with 12 other dudes was gay.

      October 30, 2013 at 9:26 am |
      • Poor Jesus

        I feel really sorry for the dude if he existed(?). He's got Luke here singing Sesame Street, Honey Badger the stand up comic and the Pope as his personal spokesman. This is what became of that dude's life.
        If I were a two thousand year old dead guy I'd be pretty well over it.

        October 30, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • doobzz

      Jesus loves the little children, yes, he does. Not enough to protect them, of course. No, Jesus' protection is reserved for embryos, fetuses and the not-yet-conceived. Once you're born, you're on your own, kid.

      But Jesus loves the little children.

      October 30, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.