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What Dave Ramsey gets wrong about poverty
Financial advisor Dave Ramsey is also an evangelical Christian.
November 30th, 2013
09:59 AM ET

What Dave Ramsey gets wrong about poverty

Opinion by Rachel Held Evans, special to CNN 

(CNN)– Dave Ramsey is rich. And he makes his living telling other evangelical Christians how they can get rich, too.

Host of a nationally syndicated radio program and author of multiple best-selling books, Ramsey targets evangelical Christians with what he calls a “biblical” approach to financial planning, one that focuses primarily on the elimination of consumer debt. His for-profit Financial Peace University is billed as “a biblically based curriculum that teaches people how to handle money God's ways."

Much of what Ramsey teaches is sound, helpful advice, particularly for middle-class Americans struggling with mounting credit card bills. I have celebrated with friends as they’ve marked their first day of debt-free living, thanks in part to Dave Ramsey’s teachings and all those white envelopes of cash he urges his students to use instead of credit cards.

But while Ramsey may be a fine source of information on how to eliminate debt, his views on poverty are neither informed nor biblical.

Take, for example, a recent article by Tim Corley posted to Ramsey’s website. Entitled “20 Things the Rich Do Every Day,” the article presents some dubious statistics comparing the habits of the rich with the habits of the poor, including:

“70% of wealthy eat less than 300 junk food calories per day. 97% of poor people eat more than 300 junk food calories per day.”

“76% of wealthy exercise aerobically four days a week. 23% of poor do this.”

“63% of wealthy listen to audio books during commute to work vs. 5% of poor people.”

One need not be a student of logic to observe that Corley and Ramsey have confused correlation with causation here by suggesting that these habits make people rich or poor.

For example, a poor person might not exercise four days a week because, unlike a rich person, she cannot afford a gym membership. Or perhaps she has to work two jobs to earn a living wage, which leaves her little time and energy for jogging around the park.

A poor family may eat more junk food, not because they are lazy and undisciplined, but because they live in an economically disadvantaged, urban setting where health food stores are not as available: a so-called “food desert.”

Critics were swift to point out these discrepancies and among the critics were some of Ramsey’s fellow evangelical Christians who also noted that, though the book of Proverbs certainly heralds success as a common return on faithful labor, nowhere does the Bible guarantee that good habits lead to wealth.

The writer of Ecclesiastes observed that "under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to the skillful; but time and chance happen to them all."

And far from having contempt for the poor, Jesus surrounded himself with the needy and challenged the excesses of the rich. “Blessed are you who are poor,” he said, “for yours is the kingdom of God. … But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort” (Luke 6:24).

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle," Jesus famously said, "than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

It’s hard for the wealthy to flourish in the kingdom that Jesus inaugurated because the economy of that kingdom runs so contrary to the economies of the world. It rewards the peacemakers over the powerful, the humble over the proud, the kind over the cruel, and those who hunger to do the right thing over those whose wealth has convinced them they already are.

Ramsey responded to the pushback with an addendum to the original post calling his critics “ignorant” and “immature” and instructing them to “grow up.”

“This list simply says your choices cause results,” he said, again committing the false cause fallacy. “You reap what you sow.”

The list, he said, applies only to people living in “first world” countries, where Ramsey believes economic injustices are essentially nonexistent. While the poor in developing countries are so as a result of external circumstances beyond their control, the poor in the United States have no one to blame but themselves.

“If you are broke or poor in the U.S. or a first-world economy, the only variable in the discussion you can personally control is YOU,” Ramsey says. “You can make better choices and have better results.”

America, he argues, has prospered as a direct result of its “understanding and application of biblical truths” which have led to “life-changing industry, inventions and a standard of living never known before on this planet.”

“There is a direct correlation,” he concludes, “between your habits, choices and character in Christ and your propensity to build wealth.”

For Christians, Ramsey’s perceived “direct correlation” between faith and wealth should be more troubling than his other confused correlations, for it flirts with what Christians refer to as the prosperity gospel, the teaching that God rewards faithfulness with wealth.

Ramsey’s particular brand of prosperity gospel elevates the American dream as God’s reward for America’s faithfulness, the spoils of which are readily available to anyone who works hard enough to receive them.

But such a view glosses over the reality that America was not, in fact, founded upon purely Christian principles (unless one counts slavery, ethnic cleansing, gender inequity, and Jim Crow as Christian principles), so we should be careful of assuming our relative wealth reflects God’s favor. (The Roman Empire was wealthy, too, after all.)

It also glosses over the reality that economic injustice is not, in fact, limited to the developing world but plagues our own country as well.

When medical bills are the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the United States, there are systemic injustices at work.

When people working 40-hour weeks at minimum wage jobs still can’t earn enough to support their families, there are systemic injustices at work.

When approximately 1% of Americans hold 40% of the nation’s wealth, there are systemic injustices at work.

When the black unemployment rate has consistently been twice as high as the white unemployment rate for the past 50 years, there are systemic injustices at work.

And throughout Scripture, people of faith are called not simply to donate to charity, but to address such systemic injustices in substantive ways.

The 17-year-old girl who lives in a depressed neighborhood zoned for a failing school system who probably won’t graduate because her grades are suffering because she has to work part-time to help support her family needs more than a few audio books to turn things around.

People are poor for a lot of reasons, and choice is certainly a factor, but categorically blaming poverty on lack of faith or lack of initiative is not only uninformed, it’s unbiblical.

God does not divide the world into the deserving rich and the undeserving poor. In fact, the brother of Jesus wrote that God has “chosen the poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he has promised to those who love him” (James 2:5).

God does not bless people with money; God blesses people with the good and perfect gift of God’s presence, which is available to rich and poor alike.

And that’s good news.

Rachel Held Evans is the author of "Evolving in Monkey Town" and "A Year of Biblical Womanhood." She blogs at rachelheldevans.com. The views expressed in this column belong to Rachel Held Evans.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Business • Christianity • Ethics • evangelicals • Faith • Leaders • Money & Faith • Opinion

soundoff (2,299 Responses)
  1. dnokc

    Ms. Evans, Dave Ramsey has assisted untold thousands to elevate themselves financially. He admits, therefore it should be no surprise when people call him that his advice has a Christian spin. Ignorance causes people to make MANY poor choices in life. Money and health issues are no exception. Mr. Ramsey does not profess following his advice will necessarily MAKE you wealthy, it shows how to effectively manage what resources one does have. Paul Harvey could have made a wonderful "Rest of the Story" article about your half truths! Give Dave a call sometime and call him out. It should be very entertaining indeed!

    November 30, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
  2. blakenaustin

    Just another far left looney taking pot shots at fiscal conservatives. Sorry, I don't buy this nonsense.

    November 30, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
  3. LotsofAmmo

    Another phony making money off of people who need a "daddy" to scold them to do things that any mature and averaged educated person should know on their own. His guidance is not new and isn't anything but common sense. Don't eat out a lot? and don't run up credit card debt? Have an emergency fund? Please.

    November 30, 2013 at 4:12 pm |
  4. 1ofTheFallen

    The real problems is Democrats telling poor people that they are too stupid to better themselves and that they should not make the effort since the government will give them free housing, food, cell phones and spending money as long as the poor keep voting for Democrats.

    November 30, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
  5. Adam J. Read

    It might be helpful to realize a few things here....such as the fact that Republicans have clearly bonded with the wealthy capitalist model of God the Father who "owns the cattle on a thousand hills" (Psalms 50:10) and the Democrats have bonded with the personality of Jesus, who models free healthcare in the form of instant healings and models the handout by giving fish (and bread) away in the feeding of the 5,000.

    It is also helpful to realize that the folks that wrote the Bible model an extremely high stress society...one that hyperfocuses on rules, numbers, cleaning rituals, and pointing out everyone else's flaws, but it appears that this is in response to an enormous sense of insecurity. After all, if "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and only the chosen few is ever going to make it to heaven, then it would appear that the long range plan from the beginning was to dump MOST of humanity and the earth itself into the trash since God is just going to make a new one.

    But this was about riches...not the environment, so it should probably be mentioned that if God does exist and owns all the cattle on a thousand hills....and heaven is a place with golden streets....and if he is all powerful and supposedly is perfect and ageless, then it would not surprise me at all to see the embedded message of wealth, power, and looking "Forever 21" as a very predictable behavioral response of many of the followers of Christianity (and Judaism).

    If we are going to ever get to the bottom of this, it might help to notice that the personality of God, as scripted by Moses in his books, looks an awful lot like Moses' dad...or at least his adoptive dad....you know, the Egyptian dictator commonly referred to as "Pharaoh" in the Bible. Then, the story of global genocide, repackaged as a floating zoo makes a lot more sense, especially since Moses was one of the Jewish boys that DIDN'T get DROWNED by his VERY POWERFUL AND WEALTHY DAD.

    Can we please move on from having this ancient dictator be the one in whom our nation trusts?

    ...Please?

    This is something that we may want to take into consideration, as the book of Revelations, written by the Apostle John, is where most people get the idea that the world is going to end soon and Jesus is coming back. The problem with this is that it makes the earth look disposable, and if we zoom back and look at Christian phrases such as "worship the creator and not the created" then we appear to have a theology that lends itself towards environmental negligence.

    November 30, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
    • 1ofTheFallen

      Wow not sure what you been reading – but looking at human nature in countries that are not Christian what do you think has been happening for thousands of years. The message in the New testament is work hard, treat people the way you wish to be treated and help the truly needly ( people who cannot take care of themselves without help ). Think of all the help and freedom America has spread throughout the world because of Christian principles. Christians are not perfect but should try to strive for the model that Jesus set. What models or examples has humanity followed that has worked better Christianity where people give to those they do not even know?

      November 30, 2013 at 4:19 pm |
  6. Jeremy

    I have listened to Dave Ramsey a fair bit. I think when he talks about people prospering, he is referring to living a life without huge debts and bankruptcy. I have never heard him tell people they can get rich from his financial planning. Rather, I have heard him praise the average person who lives in a simple house with a job who lives within their means. It is true that some people struggle greatly to get out of poverty, and Dave Ramsey helps them too when they call his show. His advice may not work for everybody but it does work for most average Americans.

    November 30, 2013 at 3:58 pm |
  7. Natalie

    Wow, adventures in missing the point. Dave specifically speaks against the prosperity gospel, and while he has built a successful business (which has made him wealthy) he did it not at the expense of the poor, but by helping those who need it most. She characterizes him as rich without taking into account the vast charitable giving his corporation and he as an individual do. Anyone who has actually read his books and/or listened to his show would know that her assertions are disingenuous and patently false, AND would hear the success stories of the type of people she characterizes as beyond repair and hopelessly disadvantaged.

    November 30, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
  8. LIfeThatIsTrulyLife

    It looks like fellow Christians even have some issues about Ramsey's approach:

    http://account417.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/financial-gurus-dave-ramsey-vs-larry-burkett/

    November 30, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
  9. LIfeThatIsTrulyLife

    It looks like even fellow Christians have some issues with Ramsey's approach:

    http://account417.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/financial-gurus-dave-ramsey-vs-larry-burkett/

    November 30, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • vinster76

      I am stunned that people might be offended that Ramsey exhorts people to get out, and stay out, of debt. Truly, I am stunned....I have family members in bankruptcy right now cuz they want to live like the rich on insufficient income. They want to drive the nice car, live in a big home, have all the right clothes, and belong to all the right social organizations. Yet, they don't have two nickels to rub together. They are on anti-depressants because they cant sleep at night due to the debt they face. Their marriages, and relationships with children are strained due to finances. Yet, here comes Dave with a better way that has helped so many people along the way.....The only debt my wife and I have is our mortgage, that's it....and soon all that will be paid off as well....Someone please tell me what could possibly be wrong with that???

      November 30, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
      • Larry Sanders

        vinster76, I am stunned, stunned!!, that your gonnorhea has cleared up this quickly!!

        November 30, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
        • R.W.

          Its because He's not a crazy atheist like you!!! (Psst... (hushed tones) ....guess what?.....they got special creams for that you might wanna check into it....just saying.)

          November 30, 2013 at 7:43 pm |
  10. Ramsey is just another human

    I have only heard about Ramsey and his views second hand, so I admit that it is very limited. As far as I can tell, he does some good and that is about all anyone can expect. Does he have the perfect course for everyone? Nope, no one does. He seems to help some people and that is sufficient. Unfortunately our education system teaches very little about money management which is a problem that could be corrected. Everyone before graduating from high school should learn how to plan a budget and avoid debt for junk. It is certainly harder now a days when kids receive a credit card as soon as they turn 18. I remember that years ago, no one who graduated from high school had their own credit card. Now when a kid is 17 and still in high school, a flood of credit cards start. The banks do this because kids are such easy targets and so unprepared for living in a credit society. So Dave Ramsey is certainly right about credit cards and how addictive they are.

    November 30, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
  11. deegeejay

    y things wrong with this article I don't know where to start but I'm sure just three will be enough to prove it has no credibility at all. Ramsey did not start out weaSo many things wrong with this article I don't know where to start but I'm sure just three will be enough to prove it has no credibility at all. Ramsey did not start out wealthy and was bankrupt – never mind that he learned self discipline and wants to share his true wealth with others. I don't own a gym membership and workout every day – and often twice. I NEVER shop in health food stores – you can "shop the perimeter" of any store and eat healthier than any health-food store gullible foodie. lthy and was bankrupt – never mind that he learned self discipline and wants to share his true wealth with others. I don't own a gym membership and workout every day – and often twice. I NEVER shop in health food stores – you can "shop the perimeter" of any store and eat healthier than any health-food store gullible foodie.

    November 30, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
    • Phillip

      That's what I was trying to say.

      November 30, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
    • MartyGRMI

      Huh? Just because there exists a path for some poor people to do different things like say "work out" or can buy "Healthy Food", doesn't mean the poor all have this same path, that this path leads to opportunity or that God is rewarding people who have been successful at collecting wealth.

      November 30, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
      • deegeejay

        Ramsey simply teaches that there are choices, he teaches self-discipline, and he teaches self-restraint. These concepts are not owned but Christians nor the wealthy – they are historically useful tools to improving one's prospects. Don't kill the messenger – especially one filled with wisdom.

        December 1, 2013 at 10:24 am |
  12. Ian

    A wealthy white girl lectures a wealthy white man for not understanding the poor. Irony much?

    November 30, 2013 at 3:36 pm |
    • vinster76

      Ian: listen to yourself.....you are embarrassing.....

      November 30, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
      • deegeejay

        nope

        November 30, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
      • Larry Sanders

        Vinster, don't let the asinine absurdly of Christian doctrine erode your mind!!! Please stay strong In your inane delusion!!!

        November 30, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
        • vinster76

          Larry Sanders: "asinine absurdly"? You need some help with that??? LOL

          November 30, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
      • Chris

        There is nothing "embarrassing" about what he said, he is completely right. You should be embarrassed and ashamed.
        A little, overly young white girl with hardly any life experience has no right to lecture anyone about money, poverty or finances. Maybe in twenty years when this naive little white girl has some wrinkles she can have an opinion.

        November 30, 2013 at 3:56 pm |
    • Ian

      I reread what I wrote and I don't feel embarrassed, something must be wrong with me I guess.

      November 30, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
      • Larry Sanders

        Ian, what's wrong with you is that you haven't accept Zeus as your Lord and Savior!!!!!!!!!!

        Remember, Zeus died for your sins!!!!'mm mm

        November 30, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
      • vinster76

        Ian: my bad. I referred to your comment as "embarrassing", which it wasn't. I do want to say that Ramsey has lost his wealth and regained it again, so he must know a bit of what he speaks. Referring to him as wealthy is true, but I would say he has had his share of hard knocks along the way.....

        November 30, 2013 at 3:55 pm |
        • Larry Sanders

          vinster76, I hear that your mother has had more than her share of 'hard knocks' during her life, if you know what I mean.

          November 30, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
  13. Sid Airfoil

    This piece has some interesting things today, but it misses one key distinction between Christianity and Capitalism: Capitalism is based on self-interest, Christianity is based on self-sacrifice. They cannot be reconciled no matter how hard people like Ramsey may try to rationalize them.

    Sid

    November 30, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • 1ofTheFallen

      Your wrong Sid. The 2 have very little to do with each other besides how much a rich person decides to give to charity or help people. Do you know what percentage Ramsey gives? I do not know what Ramsey gives but the Bible states 10%. If your very weathly then you can afford more. The government is also forcing Americans to pay more and more in taxes to take care of lower income even though many lower income people choose to live this lifestyle and do not want to worker harder or go to school to improve their skills.

      November 30, 2013 at 4:00 pm |
  14. Cliff

    Equating exercise with a gym membership and healthy eating with access to a health food store is also flawed logic.

    November 30, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
    • 1ofTheFallen

      Agreed! Some of the chepest foods are the most healty. Brown rice and beans with seasoning some vegtables is just about as it gets. I'm not sure why you need a health food store for those items. Apparently this author has very little knowledge or much experrience in life. You do not need a Whole Foods store with pre-made expensive health dishes to eat heatly. You only needt a few minutes in the kitchen cooking each day. To explain put beans in pan with water before work. Ten mintues to cook instant brown rice when you get home. Can even get some exercise while rice cooks.

      November 30, 2013 at 4:06 pm |
  15. yeahright

    Dave Ramsey makes sense on solving debt problems and building financial stablity/wealth whether you are Christian or not. If you don't agree with him on his religious principles or philosophies who cares. Go listen to someone else for financial or spritual advice.
    It is interesting how the person who wrote this article cherry picked verses from the bible and makes it appear black and white and that Dave Ramsey contradicts (all) Christian beliefs/teachings from the bible. All of the verses she selected imply that having any comfort is unchristian because of a few bible verses she cherry picked. What she doesn't touch (conveniently) is anything the bible says about how bad debt is... Or about the importance of keeping one's house in order before one can help another.
    Of course someone with a roof over her head and plenty of food, a college education, and a job working for a company worth billions of dollars – is going to tell everyone how it is unchristian it is to have money and comfort... I'm sure she has no 401-K and isn't planning for retirement, that would be "unchristian". So I guess she isn't Christian? Or she isn't christian but she cares if Dave Ramsey really is.... sigh... I'd love to see her give financial advice or spiritual advice. (Rolling eyes)
    Dave Ramsey teaches people to stop making excuses for being broke and in debt and to be assertive, do business in an ethical way, and be generous with giving. How evil and unchristian... (Rolling eyes)

    November 30, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
    • Phillip

      Rolling eyes with you. :~)

      November 30, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
    • Mike F

      Dave Ramsey gives honest and straight-forward financial advice. If anyone who has commented here has listened to at least 1 of his shows, you know that to be true. He simply applies financial common-sense to everyday life and wraps it in a spiritual overtone. His advice applies to most people, but certainly not all. Why there is so much polarized opposite opinions is beyond me. By and large, there are too many people (we surely each know of at least one) who are irresponsible with money. That's not due to environment, or upbringing, or social status, or education. That's due to lack of will-power and understanding of the financial consequences for poor decisions.

      For the author of the article to start out her piece with, "Dave Ramsey is rich," is clearly showing her real intent and purpose of the article. She apparently (and obviously) ignores the fact that his last 'baby step' in his program is to help others once you've attained financial peace. So it's irrelevant whether he uses religion or not. It's not a debate on his viewpoint of religion and how it pertains to money management...it's just another attack at the evil 'rich people'.

      November 30, 2013 at 4:11 pm |
  16. Noyb

    If republicans actually cared about people, their message could hold a grain of worth. If they actually tried telling people you're worth more, you deserve more, and we know you are capable of reaching amd striving for better, instead of the usual continual berating and demeaning of poor people as lazy and worthless, they might actually get somewhere with their hard work equals sucess soundbite.

    November 30, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
    • yeahright

      @Noyb Appaently you have neve listened to Dave Ramsey's show. Dave doesn't take a stance on any party or party platform on his program. He consistently promotes helping the less fortunate and leads by example. He simply tells people not to make excuses and he clearly encourages people to strive for success and believes they can achieve it. That is the whole point of his show. How dd you miss that...

      November 30, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
      • Noyb

        I don't listen to his show. That's how I missed that.

        December 1, 2013 at 7:07 am |
    • vinster76

      Noyb: who the heck is responsible for telling and encouraging people to do more, have more, and try more....If they don't have, don't do, and don't try, why does anyone have to tell them to do better????? If they haven't figured it out by the time they are adults, they're too lazy or stupid to help themselves......My gosh, the successful business owners of this country didn't wait around for someone to tell them it's ok to do well, they figured it out mostly by themselves. Many times, it was because their navel and spine were touching, and they thought it might be best to get a job and get to work.....cry me a friggin river!!!!!!!!!!

      November 30, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
      • Larry Sanders

        vinster76, thank you for taking time away from your Rick Santorum newsletter in order to comment.

        However, I have just received word that Kirk Cameron will be requiring his brain back this evening, so you will not be capable of any future comments.

        But pleas be aware that Gary Busey has a brain that you may borrow. Assuming that Glen Beck doesn't have dibs.

        November 30, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
        • R.W.

          That must have taken you all day to come up with that comment or did you piggy-back that one too....whew!

          November 30, 2013 at 7:51 pm |
      • Noyb

        Why does anyone have to tell them this? Because for nw, they are surrounded by negativity amd poor or nonexistent guidance where they've never seen a legally and morally successful person I ther lives that mAde a difference, and two, because you're the os that going to support these people. How's hat for a reason?

        December 1, 2013 at 7:10 am |
    • 1ofTheFallen

      The real problems are Democrats telling poor people that they are too stupid to better themselves and that they should not make the effort since the government will give them free housing, food, cell phones and spending money as long as the poor keep voting for Democrats.

      November 30, 2013 at 4:10 pm |
      • Larry Sanders

        R.W.,

        Thank you for taking time away from your gerbil experiments in order to comment here.

        And please remember, being mentally retarded is nothing to be ashamed of. It's the way that our blessed Lord made you, so be proud!

        November 30, 2013 at 8:03 pm |
        • Randy T

          That's it? That's your sensitive, lib-prob, inclusive response?

          November 30, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
        • R.W.

          Just keeping it real for you...I know its easy for you to get lost in you lost ....with all the words and stuff.. 🙂

          November 30, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
  17. JW

    1 Tim 6:17-19- "17 Instruct those who are rich in the present system of things not to be arrogant, and to place their hope, not on uncertain riches, but on God, who richly provides us with all the things we enjoy. 18 Tell them to work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be generous, ready to share, 19 safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, so that they may get a firm hold on the real life.

    1 Tim 6:9,10- "But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains."

    November 30, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Tim

      1 Tim 1-1 "A wise person will accept a blood transfusion to a loved one in emergency treatment if that person being treated has lost a lot of blood and is likely to die without it. To do otherwise would border on murder."

      November 30, 2013 at 3:46 pm |
      • JW

        Rather, a wise person will accept an alternative treatment, and like that, avoid all kinds of diseases that can come from blood transfusions.

        November 30, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
        • Tim

          That is utterly stupid, JW. When you are deathly short of blood, such as from hemorrhaging after a traumatic accident, there is no current emergency "alternative" in most cases at most medical facilities.

          I'd dismiss you as merely an idiot if you weren't so dangerous.

          Gee. Let me guess which nasty religion you are from. Done your doorknocking for the day, are you? Don't think you'll be welcome selling your deadly beliefs here.

          November 30, 2013 at 4:28 pm |
        • JW

          Tim- you cannot tell if someone died because he didnt get blood... Facts are facts...whatever comes after that its just speculations, moved by hatred...

          November 30, 2013 at 5:02 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Re: "you cannot tell. . ." bullsh!t – any competent forensic pathologist would be able to make that determination to a high degree of certainty.

          November 30, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
        • JW

          HAA – So a forensic study would be able to determine if someones immune system would be able to accept foreign blood or not?

          November 30, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
        • Des

          JW, you gutless coward. Stop dodging the issue. Stop pushing your death cult here. Let's make this simple:

          If the choice were death by blood loss or life by blood transfusion, which choice would you take?

          No more of your shameful dodges. Answer up, coward. No more of your slippery dodging and sales pitches.

          November 30, 2013 at 7:22 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          The need to match blood types or otherwise test to ensure blood compatibility is well understood by medical doctors.

          November 30, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
        • JW

          Des- it doesn't matter which one I would choose...worry about yourself only!!

          HAA- many thing are understood, even the fact that your body could reject forgein blood!

          November 30, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          I'm not a doctor. . .

          The life saving benefit of blood transfusions is very well known.

          How many organ transplants, which are extremely dependent on blood and tissue matching are successfully completed every day? I don't have a number but it is big. These procedures are now relatively routine with high success rates. So successful that people are clamoring, and even going to court, to get access to the available organs.

          To suggest blood transfusions should not be performed at all because of technical issues is simply bullsh!t. I would have more (some?) respect for your position if you simply stuck to "my (unproven) god says. . ."

          November 30, 2013 at 7:58 pm |
        • JW

          HAA- I'm not saying they should not be preformed in people that think like you. You can take blood if you want, but we won't...

          It's well know as well the risks of receiving blood transfusions, on top of that blood reserves are becoming short everyday, people are donating less blood. And there's no proof at all if someone would've survived if received blood... "If" doesn't prove nothing.

          November 30, 2013 at 8:36 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Again, the risk vs benefits are well understood. I'll go with trained medical doctors every time out rather than relying on mystical, unproven religious bullsh!t.

          November 30, 2013 at 8:44 pm |
        • JW

          HAA- That's great HotAir. It's your decision, which I respect.

          But just to let you JWs are working toghether with the top docters worldwide to keep on looking for alternative medicine for blood. It's working out amazingly not only in favor of JW patients, but in favor as well of the public in general. There have been amazing improvements in alternative medicine.

          November 30, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
      • Des

        Indeed, Tim. No doubt JW will be back trying to sell us on his death cult shortly. We are ready for his ilk and their deadly beliefs, though.

        November 30, 2013 at 4:31 pm |
        • JW

          Lol... "death cult"...your making my day...continue son, i want to continue laughing! lol

          November 30, 2013 at 5:04 pm |
  18. Lionly Lamb

    Atheists or naught, Life is as it always was and may yet ever always be...

    November 30, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
  19. Harvey Yoder

    I really resonate with this piece. I've written a blog on Ramsey, complete with a picture of his huge mansion and estate in a gated community in Tennessee. http://harvyoder.blogspot.com/.../capital-wealth-and...

    November 30, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • yeahright

      It must be so hard being a TRUE christian and living in utter poverty and having electricity, internet, a car, a roof over your head plenty of food, just like Jesus did... Oh um er.... At least you have time to cast stones at Dave Ramsey since you are a real christian,,, I mean he doesn't work hard or give anything to help the less fortunate, give to charity or his church... Well he does but that shouldn't count...

      November 30, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
  20. Bethany

    I listen to Dave Ramsey Mon-Fri and I'm an atheist, not an evangelical christian. Get your stereotypes outta here, lady.

    November 30, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Oh, stop

      Lol. He claims to be an evangelical Christian. It's totally appropriate to bring up a claim of his. Lol.

      November 30, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
      • Larry Sanders

        Oh, stop, you're a total dufus!!!!!! Lol!!!

        November 30, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I think you missed the point of the story.

      November 30, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.