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January 7th, 2014
10:00 AM ET

Satanists unveil design for OK statehouse statue

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - Satanists have unveiled their design for a proposed statue at the Oklahoma state Capitol, including a place for people to sit on the devil's lap "for inspiration and contemplation."

The New York-based Satanic Temple submitted its proposal to Oklahoma officials this month after applying for a spot on Capitol grounds late last year. The Satanists say their statue would "complement and contrast" with a Ten Commandments monument placed at the Capitol in Oklahoma City in 2012.

The Satanists' proposed monument depicts Baphomet, a goat-headed pagan idol sitting on a 7-foot-tall throne inscribed with an inverted pentagram. In an artist's rendering provided by the Satanic Temple, smiling children look adoringly at the devilish figure.

"The statue will serve as a beacon calling for compassion and empathy among all living creatures," Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the Satanic Temple, said in a prepared statement. "The statue will also have a functional purpose as a chair where people of all ages may sit on the lap of Satan for inspiration and contemplation.”

According to its Indiegogo page, the Satanists have raised more than $16,000 toward their goal of $20,000 for the monument, which Greaves said would "be a historical marker commemorating the scapegoats, the marginalized, the demonized minority and the unjustly outcast.”

The Temple of Satan is less a religious body organized around rituals and regular meetings than a roving band of political provocateurs, according to Greaves. They believe Satan is a "literary construct," the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves.

READ MORE: Satanists want statue next to Ten Commandments

The proposed statue includes quotations from poets Lord Byron and William Blake.

“Prisons are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion” runs the Blake quotation. The 18th-century poet was a Christian, albeit one with a mystical bent and little use for traditional morality.

The statue's main figure, Baphomet, has long been associated with Satan, Greaves said. In the 12th century, the Knights Templar, a group of Christian crusaders, were accused of worshiping Baphomet in their secretive rituals.

"From the mythology created by these accusations against the Templars, we now have a symbol for Satan pictured as a goat-headed beast," Greaves said.

Since the 1960s, a variation of the horned goat head has been the official symbol of the Church of Satan, which is not affiliated with the Temple of Satan. The head of the Church of Satan has told CNN he does not approve of the idea of a Satanist statue on public grounds.

Oklahoma state Rep. Paul Wesselhoft told CNN that he doesn't think the Satanists' statue will be approved.

“What will disqualify them has really nothing to do with Satan as such; it's that it has no historical significance for the state of Oklahoma,” he said.

Trait Thompson, chairman of Oklahoma's Capitol Preservation Committee, said he has not received the Satanists' proposed design yet. He also said that no applications will be considered until a lawsuit over the Ten Commandments monument is settled.

The American Civil Liberties Union has sued over Oklahoma's Ten Commandments monument, calling it an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion.

After news broke of the Satanists' proposal, the state was flooded with requests from religious groups seeking to erect monuments to their own faith, including Hindus and Pastafarians, a satirical religion that "worships" the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

An Oklahoma lawmaker told CNN that the Satanists' message wouldn't fly in the Bible Belt state, where nearly two-thirds of the population is Christian.

"Any monument displayed on state property should reflect the values of Oklahoma or memorialize those who built or defended our freedom," Rep. Bob Cleveland said Tuesday. "In my opinion, this Satanist monument does not meet with the values of Oklahomans."

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Belief • Church and state • Satanism

soundoff (3,489 Responses)
  1. mzh

    I seek refuge in Allah from the outcast Satan.

    Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. – 2:255

    There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower. – 2:256

    He is Allah, than Whom there is La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen. He is the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. – 59:22

    He is Allah than Whom there is La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the King, the Holy, the One Free from all defects, the Giver of security, the Watcher over His creatures, the All-Mighty, the Compeller, the Supreme. Glory be to Allah! (High is He) above all that they associate as partners with Him. – 59:23

    He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names . All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. – 59:24

    O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women and fear Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (do not cut the relations of) the wombs (kinship). Surely, Allah is Ever an All-Watcher over you. – 4:1

    O Allah our Lord, guide to the straight path, the path will please You only You... amine

    Peace...

    January 10, 2014 at 9:28 am |
    • Science Works

      mzh and MAYBE you will learn something at the Y – millions of years?

      Study Dispels Theories of Y Chromosome's Demise: Stripped-Down Chromosome Retains Key Genes for Fertility

      Jan. 9, 2014 —

      Y has degraded over past 200 million

      Before about 200 million years ago, when mammals were relatively new on Earth, early versions of the se-x chromosomes, X and Y, were just like other pairs of chromosomes: with each generation, they swapped a few genes so that offspring were a mix of their parents' genes. Fertilized eggs that got two proto-Xs became females and eggs with a proto-X and proto-Y became males.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140109175736.htm

      January 10, 2014 at 10:11 am |
      • mzh

        Thanks very much SW... I will sure look into it... I love to learn new things but that does not mean I would have to believe in it as Science changes everyday because it is human invention and human invention always abrogates with the new theory... but what is mentioned in the Quran is going to be unchanged and I believe no human can write the way it is written...

        I will let you know once I learn something from the url u posted...

        Peace my friend...

        January 10, 2014 at 10:49 am |
        • Science Works

          Make sure to park your talking donkey at the curb mzh.

          January 10, 2014 at 11:03 am |
        • mzh

          Thanks for your nice wordings SW... you are so kind...

          Peace...

          January 10, 2014 at 11:43 am |
        • Piccolo

          Just an FYI, science isn't a belief system and isn't something you can really chose to believe. It's something that is based on evidence, facts and experiments. We use that evidence to paint the closest possible picture to explain how something works. That picture may slightly change as new evidence arises or new variables present themselves, but the facts themselves do not change. Science doesn't require belief, we know it works and is a solid method for learning things. Religion on the other hand relies completely on faith, and never changes regardless of how many things are proved wrong within it.

          January 10, 2014 at 3:09 pm |
        • mzh

          Thanks P…

          I liked your posting…

          I believe that the science is huge blessing to the mankind from The Creator of the mankind and the entire universe… and nothing happens without His will…

          As Quran teaches that the things are needed in order for mankind to survive and be submissive/grateful to The Creator are already there when He created the universe (please don’t ask me how long ago)…

          And things are being discovered by our great scientists (I would say they are blessed with the knowledge and not everyone are blessed with this huge blessing) whenever and wherever its needed/demanded for mankind to survive or live… for example: no human could imagine to fly about 200 years ago but now human think more sophisticated things than that… and we do not know our future human – what they will think… but its already there what would be needed for them to live and there will be people to discover things so that rest of the mankind will be helped… and so on…

          Peace!!!

          January 10, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • Science Works

          mzh no problem – no spirit/ghost or you know who in the drivers seat ?

          Driverless cars need legal framework, carmakers say

          http://www.cbsnews.com/news/driverless-cars-need-legal-framework-carmakers-say/

          January 10, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
    • Span.k Your Imam

      mzh, do not be speaking thusly without prior vigorous spanking of backside of yourself and closely adjacent imam.

      It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance. If Allah is willing your soreness will eventually subside and you may get back to riding your camel and your usual monkey spanking so profusely.

      Here it is written and must be so.
      Here it is written and must be so.
      Here it is written and must be so.
      Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

      January 10, 2014 at 5:08 pm |
  2. ladyneal

    TAre you freakin kidding me! There shouldnt be a satanic church let alone a statue.... In america!!!! God is going to destroy anything that is not holy and um yeah that should not be allowed screw values and history what about our souls....??? GOD WAS HERE FIRST, AND YOU WONDER WHY THE NATION IS FALLING TO CRAP!!!! Put up those commandments!!! Screw all the rest!

    January 10, 2014 at 7:44 am |
    • midwest rail

      America is not a theocracy. This would never have been an issue had the short-sighted legislators in Oklahoma not put an exclusive religious display.

      January 10, 2014 at 7:48 am |
    • Keith

      Way to cram your beliefs down the throats of the rest of us.

      January 10, 2014 at 8:23 am |
    • aldewacs2

      I'll bet that you sound just the way you type.
      Garbled and lacking any sense.

      January 10, 2014 at 8:48 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The U.S. Government's history and values are explicitly secular.
      And how exactly is the country falling apart?
      According o the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, the violent crime rate is around half of what it was 1990.
      The literacy rate has steadily increased throughout the 20th century...

      January 10, 2014 at 9:11 am |
      • Rascal262

        One word... "Honey Boo Boo".

        January 10, 2014 at 12:22 pm |
        • sam stone

          that's three words

          January 12, 2014 at 10:11 am |
    • King of Darkness

      You know why America is really turning to crap? Because self righteous bigots like you are in charge. Despite the fact that America was founded on freedom of religion, you feel that your religion is the only one allowed to be expressed in public. And you have the nerve to be mad at atheists for not wanting Christmas trees and crosses put up in public places? You act like your BELIEF SYSTEM based on noting but FAITH is absolute truth and everyone else is wrong. It's pure hypocrisy and directly conflicts with Jesus' teachings.

      January 10, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
    • CommonSensed

      Please look up the definition of secular government.

      Then shut your trap and keep your fundamentalism to yourself.

      January 10, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
  3. what next?

    In the Catholic Church we have the following prayer of protection from evil. Those who love God and put their Faith in Him will be protected.

    Holy Michael the Archangel defend us in the day of battle; be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil – may God rebuke him we humbly pray: and do you Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of Almighty God thrust down to hell satan and all his wicked spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen

    January 9, 2014 at 10:20 pm |
    • Reality # 2

      As noted previously,

      AND THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD

      Joe Smith had his Moroni. (As does M. Romney)

      "Latter-day Saints like M. Romney also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

      Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

      Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

      Jesus and his family had/has Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented. (As do BO and his family)(As do Biden and Ryan)

      The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

      Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie/horn-blowing thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

      Some added references to "tink-erbells" are available.

      January 10, 2014 at 8:34 am |
    • CommonSensed

      Please ask the millions of devote Philippine people who prayed to their catholic god about the recent typhoon and how that worked out.

      January 10, 2014 at 4:44 pm |
  4. what next?

    The inclusion of children with that deformed 'thing' is worrying to say the least!

    But a BIG "thank you" to the satan worshippers - you just publicly PROVED there is a God!

    Physics and logic dictate that everything has an opposite:
    # The magnetic poles
    # Heat and cold
    # Dark and light
    # positive and negative electrical charged particles
    # Diseased and healthy
    #Birth and death
    # Good and evil
    # GOD and Satan.

    God pitched the evil thing out of heaven and in the end GOD will crush the beast when His Holy Mother crushes his head with her foot!

    Well done you bunch of losers! Satan will use you for his own ends then when you go to hell for eternity – he'll spit on you.

    January 9, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
    • Observer

      what next?

      Yep. There are opposites. For instance you can support slavery like the Bible does or you can oppose it.

      You can tell people to beat helpless children with rods for discipline like the Bible does or you can oppose it.

      Lots of opposites.

      January 9, 2014 at 10:24 pm |
      • what next?

        Slavery isn't a scientific, logic or physics fact – the examples I gave ARE. Would you care to stick to the point? That'd be good.

        January 10, 2014 at 10:35 am |
        • King of Darkness

          You should look up the definition of fact. You are dead wrong. Slavery and torture being condoned in the bible is a fact. Good & Evil are merely subjective interpretations of acts committed by people. It's also considered evil in the bible to wear fabrics with more than one type of material, to eat pork, etc etc. But everybody's holy books say different things and they all have the same amount of evidence to support their views. None.

          January 10, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
    • Love It

      Precisely, how does this "Prove" either? If you must know, Satanists (mostly) do not believe in God or Satan. They follow tenets, and if you would care to view their tenets, they're actually decent – no harm, live happy, helping others, etc...

      In any case, they have just as much right for their monument as the 10 commandments; Ideally, no public/government area should feature any sort of religious symbols.

      January 9, 2014 at 11:00 pm |
      • what next?

        You're VERY naïve aren't you? Did you also fall for the Democrats hope and change garbage?

        January 10, 2014 at 10:29 am |
        • Love It

          what next – Wow... I'm not the one spouting myths as facts.

          January 10, 2014 at 10:45 am |
        • Now why

          Why would you chastise somebody else about changing the subject when you just threw in a red herring yourself, what next?? Typical Christian hypocrite.

          January 10, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • Dhalsim

          Ummm, Jesus was a liberal progressive! Try reading the bible before spouting such nonsense as this.

          January 10, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
    • Barcs

      What a joke. Everything DOES NOT have a polar opposite. What's the opposite of lollypops? What's the opposite of clouds? What's the opposite of a cell? Stars? Galaxies? Black holes? LOL at calling those physics facts. Time for you to take a science class. LOL at saying slavery isn't physics. You said there is good and evil, right? Which category do slavery and torture fall into? Now read the bible and find out which god condones both acts.

      January 10, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
  5. BBQ beef

    Is that the monument for the Oklahoma state house, or the Oklahoma steak house?

    January 9, 2014 at 8:22 pm |
    • Ba'al B Q

      Wow you know the lake of fire makes so much more sense now. Goat hoofs, a legion of pigs, giant cow all roasting together in one place, somewhere outside of Oklahoma. All it needs is a good hell fire sauce and corn on the cob.

      January 10, 2014 at 7:45 pm |
  6. Sitting on Satan's lap

    Dear Satan,

    Why couldn't you have done me the courtesy of existing. I am more annoyed with you than I am with any other god for just not being there. You managed to make it into four...count it four total modern religions, three of which are not specifically dedicated to you. Unlike other gods you were supposed to still be around somewhere.

    And what do I get from you, not one Ouija board pointer moving, not one slamming cupboard door, not even a creepy green face behind me in a mirror. All the horror movies I've ever seen were dead wrong, and I tried I really did.

    All I wanted was some proof that there was a spiritual world, something, anything. Yet I'm still here, with no proof. Now I see your statue and you look like a cartoon, and people thousands of years from now will look at it and say what was that supposed to be?

    I guess there is no point, it serves me right for hoping, if not for a "miracle" at least for a good ghost story.

    Regards,

    S.

    January 9, 2014 at 6:41 pm |
    • Sitting on Satan's lap

      Ok is that supposed to look like a giant reindeer?

      January 9, 2014 at 7:51 pm |
      • what next?

        Not so much of a giant reindeer – more like an 'extra' on the set of Star wars!

        January 9, 2014 at 10:07 pm |
        • Fan2C

          @what next?

          Did you ever take a gander at the depictions of your Michael the Archangel? Google images if you have not. Exquisitely true-to-life, eh?

          January 9, 2014 at 10:39 pm |
  7. Reality # 2

    And one more time:

    What instigated the attack on the Twin Towers, Flight 93 and the Pentagon?

    And what drives today's 24/7 mosque/imam-planned acts of terror and horror?

    The koran, Mohammed's book of death for all infidels and Muslim domination of the world by any means.

    Muslims must clean up this book removing said passages (scroll down the page) admitting that they are based on the Gabriel myth and therefore obviously the hallucinations and/or lies of Mohammed.

    Then we can talk about the safety and location of mosques and what is taught therein.

    Until then, no Muslim to include mzh can be trusted anytime or anywhere..................................

    January 9, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
    • mzh

      Reality # 2:

      First of all I appreciate as always for the effort that you do in order to let others know about the verses of the Koran… and I ask Allah to reward you for that…

      Secondly, answers for your questions – I do not know

      Koran is being preserved since the day it has been reveled to mankind and it will be as it is whether you like it or not…

      I suggest you to study besides what you know that what quran teaches in order to live with the people who do not believe in the message of Quran which includes people of the book (both Jew and Christian), mushrikeen (the ones who associates any sort of partner (s) with the Almighty)… and focus on other issues that it talks about… there is nothing missing for the mankind to live their daily life… as it states that this is without doubt a guidance for those who has the most awareness of The Almgihty…

      Thanks again my friend…

      Peace!!!

      January 9, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Obviously, mzh still has not read the following. Once again to save all of our sisters and brothers from the terror and horror that is Islam:

        From the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi----–

        The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

        ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

        Are you ready?

        Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

        The First Five of the 77 Branches:

        "1. Belief in Allah"

        aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

        "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

        Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

        "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

        A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

        "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

        Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

        Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

        Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

        "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
        be upon him) alone."

        Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

        Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

        Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

        Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

        January 10, 2014 at 12:03 am |
        • Key Typer

          I'm sorry, but are you typing in Morse code or something? WTHeck?

          January 10, 2014 at 9:28 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          Only for those who reading challenged:

          • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion !!!!

          January 10, 2014 at 11:56 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          Oops, make that "who are reading challenged". 🙂

          January 11, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
    • mzh

      One more thing R:

      The following verse was reveled to challange people at that time to come up with one small chapter in Quran whereas they were master of the Arabic language but they could not and they failed... and most of them believed and some of them did not but none could come up with one small chapter (surah)...

      17:88 – Say, "If mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they were to each other assistants."

      I wish The Almgihty opens the heart of all to be able to see the real light...

      Peace my friend...

      January 9, 2014 at 4:46 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        And mzh you obviously are a victim of the infamous Angelic Con. You are not alone but you have been provided a safe and easy cure.

        To wit:

        AND THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD

        Joe Smith had his Moroni. (As does M. Romney)

        "Latter-day Saints like M. Romney also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

        Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

        Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

        Jesus and his family had/has Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented. (As do BO and his family)(As do Biden and Ryan)

        The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

        Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie/horn-blowing thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

        Some added references to tinker bells are readily available upon request.

        January 10, 2014 at 12:09 am |
        • Follower of Jesus Christ

          You are free to believe that God does not exist, but that doesn't make it so.
          You are free to believe that angels do not exist, but that doesn't make it so.
          You are free to believe in your own perception of reality, but that doesn't make it correct.
          You are free to believe that I am wrong, but that doesn't mean it's true.
          You are free to believe that you are enlightened and that I am deceived, but that doesn't prove it right.
          Time will tell... Until then, may God lead you to truth, as He would have you see it.

          January 10, 2014 at 2:43 am |
        • Reality # 2

          Dear Follower of Jesus et al,

          Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

          Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospels being mostly fiction.

          January 10, 2014 at 8:30 am |
        • aldewacs2

          To: Follower of Jesus Christ

          You are free to believe that God exists, but you can’t claim that to be true to others unless you provide some proof.
          You are free to believe in any other mythical stuff, but that doesn't make it so.
          You are not free to infect my grandchildren with your delusions, and I’ll continue to speak out against charlatans like yourself and countless others who don’t have the mental capacity to see reality.
          The strength of my opposing language will be directly proportional to the depth of your delusions.
          Now, go away and THINK.

          January 10, 2014 at 9:10 am |
        • mzh

          Thank you Reality # 2... it is so kind of you...

          I will be patient till we meet on the day when we both will be raise... till than I wish you all the best my friend...

          Do whatever you have the ability to do but you will be returning to your Lord and will be standing on that day in front of your Lord...

          I ask Allah nothing but have mercy upon us the entire mankind...

          Peace!!!

          January 10, 2014 at 9:12 am |
        • Reality # 2

          After thinking about it, I searched the following references for answers:

          o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.

          2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
          – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–

          30-60 CE Passion Narrative
          40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
          50-60 1 Thessalonians
          50-60 Philippians
          50-60 Galatians
          50-60 1 Corinthians
          50-60 2 Corinthians
          50-60 Romans
          50-60 Philemon
          50-80 Colossians
          50-90 Signs Gospel
          50-95 Book of Hebrews
          50-120 Didache
          50-140 Gospel of Thomas
          50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
          50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
          65-80 Gospel of Mark
          70-100 Epistle of James
          70-120 Egerton Gospel
          70-160 Gospel of Peter
          70-160 Secret Mark
          70-200 Fayyum Fragment
          70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
          73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
          80-100 2 Thessalonians
          80-100 Ephesians
          80-100 Gospel of Matthew
          80-110 1 Peter
          80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
          80-130 Gospel of Luke
          80-130 Acts of the Apostles
          80-140 1 Clement
          80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
          80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
          80-250 Christian Sibyllines
          90-95 Apocalypse of John
          90-120 Gospel of John
          90-120 1 John
          90-120 2 John
          90-120 3 John
          90-120 Epistle of Jude
          93 Flavius Josephus
          100-150 1 Timothy
          100-150 2 Timothy
          100-150 T-itus
          100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
          100-150 Secret Book of James
          100-150 Preaching of Peter
          100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
          100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
          100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
          100-160 2 Peter

           4. Jesus Database, http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/intro.html –"The JESUS DATABASE is an online a-nnotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
          5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
          6. The Jesus Seminar, http://en.wikipedia.o-rg/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
          7. http://www.biblicalartifacts.com/items/785509/item785509biblicalartifacts.html – books on the health and illness during the time of the NT
          8. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
          9.The Gn-ostic Jesus
          (Part One in a Two-Part Series on A-ncient and Modern G-nosticism)
          by Douglas Gro-othuis: http://www.equip.o-rg/articles/g-nosticism-and-the-g-nostic-jesus/
          10. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
          Presented on March 18, 1994
          ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#2
          11. The Jesus Database- newer site:
          wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.php?t-itle=Jesus_Database
          12. Jesus Database with the example of S-u-pper and Eucharist:
          faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/jdb016.html
          13. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
          mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
          13. http://www.textweek.com/mtlk/jesus.htmm- Historical Jesus Studies
          14. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/
          15. D-iseases in the Bible:
          http://books.google.com/books/about/The_d-iseases_of_the_Bible.html?id=C1YZAAAAYAAJ

          16. Religion on- Line (6000 a-rt-ic-les on the hi-story of religion, churches, theologies,
          theologians, eth-ics, etc. religion-online.o–rg/
          17. The New Testament Gateway – Internet NT n-tgate-way.com/
          18 Writing the New Testament- e-xi-sting copies, o–r–al tradition etc.
          n-tgat-eway.com/
          19. JD Crossan's c-onclusions about the a-uthencity of most of the NT based on the above plus the c-onclusions of other NT e-xege-tes in the last 200 years:
          http://wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.p-hp?t-itle=Crossan_Inventory
          20. Early Jewish Writings- Josephus and his books by t-itle with the complete translated work in English :earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html
          21. Luke and Josephus- was there a c-onnection?
          in-fidels.o-rg/library/modern/richard_carrier/lukeandjosephus.html
          22. NT and beyond time line:
          pbs.o-rg/empires/pe-terandpaul/history/timeline/
          23. St. Paul's Time line with discussion of important events:
          harvardhouse.com/prophetictech/new/pauls_life.htm
          24. See http://www.amazon.com for a list of JD Crossan's books and those of the other Jesus Seminarians: Reviews of said books are included and selected pages can now be viewed on Amazon. Some books can be found on-line at Google Books.
          25. Father Edward Schillebeeckx's words of wisdom as found in his books.
          27. The books of the following : Professors Gerd Ludemann, Marcus Borg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.
          28. Father Raymond Brown's An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.
          29. Luke Timothy Johnson's book The Real Jesus

          One result:

          The Apostles' Creed 2014: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

          Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
          and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
          human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

          I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
          preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
          named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
          girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

          Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
          the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

          He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
          a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
          Jerusalem.

          Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
          many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
          and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
          Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
          grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
          and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
          called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

          Amen

          January 10, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
        • Follower of Jesus Christ

          You have no more physical "proof" that Jesus Christ was anything other than The Savior of the World, than I have of Him being that. However, I have received a personal witness. This is not boasting, nor is it meant to condescend, I'm merely relating my personal proof that has led me to know that He lives. This is available to all who humble themselves, repent and desire in earnest to know God and His will for us. It's not easy, but it's worth it. God knows your heart. He has an unconditional love for you, and everyone of us. He is the Father of our spirits, and He desires to have a personal relationship with all of us. Some of us are too busy trying to prove Him wrong all the time, so like a good Dad, he waits until the day when we can admit, "man, Dad was right." As it will be in the day when "every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

          January 17, 2014 at 4:10 am |
    • Span.k Your Imam

      mzh, your present reality should be one of vigorous spanking of backside of yourself and closely adjacent imam. So here it is said profusely and wisely.

      It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance. If Allah is willing your soreness will eventually subside and you may get back to riding your camel and your usual monkey spanking so profusely.

      So here it is said profusely and wisely.

      Here it is written and must be so.
      Here it is written and must be so.
      Here it is written and must be so.
      Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present reality.

      January 9, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
  8. Lightbringer

    Why do religious folk constantly say things like, "stop denying the truth", when your religion is based on faith? It's not truth! It's what you believe. It's about time you guys acknowledge this and stop acting like your belief system is the ONLY way to live. The first step to knowing Jesus is to stop being self righteous and telling other people they are wrong for having a different faith. It's condescending and rude, and it's certainly not what Jesus would do. Spread your faith by doing good deeds instead of picking fights with non believers and people that want equal representation of their faith. Show empathy and try to understand where they are coming from. There are millions of potential truths out there. Nobody really knows the answer for sure, so to claim you have some sort of divine knowledge that others are not privy to is a bit arrogant.

    January 9, 2014 at 2:57 pm |
    • mzh

      Lightbringer:

      “millions of potential truths” – I believe this is not related to religion but something else… I agree that there are lots to truth out there like we should help the hunger, those who in need, against injustice to anyone even it goes against myself, anything which impacts the community that we live in and many more…

      But my friend, when it comes to faith, how could you say that millions are truth? Let me give you an example: Islam teaches Jesus (pbuh) is son of Mary and has no divine power, whereas in basic fundamental belief of Christianity is Jesus (pbuh) is son of God (but there are people in Christianity do not accept this concept and we still have this people), now Hindus says monkey is my God, Atheists says there is no God, Agnostics says there is God but they do not accept any of the scriptures, even Christian killed anyone who does not believe in their belief by calling infidel during the time of crusaders, nowhere in Bible Jesus calls himself as Christian or the religion (I met there is a group who does not call themselves as Christian but ‘followers of Jesus’ by referring that Jesus (pbuh) never called himself as Christian) of Christian and many more…

      O my friend, where do you see the similarity?

      In my opinion – you represent what you believe with good manner and let the individual make their own choice…

      Peace!!!

      January 9, 2014 at 3:50 pm |
      • Span.k Your Imam

        mzh, , do not be spewing thusly so voluminously without prior vigorous spanking of backside of yourself and closely adjacent imam.

        It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance. If Allah is willing your soreness will eventually subside and you may get back to riding your camel and your usual monkey spanking so profusely.

        Here it is written and must be so.
        Here it is written and must be so.
        Here it is written and must be so.
        Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

        January 9, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        And again the koranic passages that make Islam the terror and horror religion that it is:

        http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/005.asp et al

        o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
        o
        "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

        "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

        "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

        "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29-)

        "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

        "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

        "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

        "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

        "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

        "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

        "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

        "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

        "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

        "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

        January 9, 2014 at 4:03 pm |
      • Lightbringer

        I understand your viewpoint and it does seem somewhat tolerant, but my question was more about asking why folks on here belittle others by saying their religion is the truth and that everyone else is in denial. You can't call something that doesn't have evidence the truth. If you believe it, it's cool but your viewpoint is just as valid as mine. I'm agnostic, btw, and agnostics don't believe in god. They pretty much say that they aren't sure whether god exists, and want to see evidence before believing something. I just get annoyed when people act like I'm denying reality (such as evolution deniers and flat earthers), because I don't buy into their belief system. All that does is make people angry and less likely to ever believe in a god or religion.

        January 9, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • mzh

          My friend Lightbringer:

          I understood your point but in my opinion – everyone would like to say ‘either my way or highways’… whether it is Atheist, Agnostic, Muslim, Christian, Hindu and so on…

          But I am a Muslim and I am proud to be… as a Muslim I would let other know that this is what the book says whether it goes for me or against me as I can not change the scripture and as it has been reveled for the mankind… and it teaches that do not force anyone to accept Islam… believe in Islam requires that the belief to be by heart and not something in the heart and something totally opposite in externally…

          And its up to individual whether to accept or to reject… but I would not have any problem to deal with any issue related to the improvement of the community that I live… and deal with any background…

          You know what I think one should do? In my opinion, its important to find the truth but not which one is best/better than other…

          Peace my friend… and I appreciate your explanation about the definition of Agnostic… I was mistaken…

          January 9, 2014 at 5:00 pm |
        • Former Xtian

          Very well put. I couldn't agree more that good deeds and tolerance should be the cornerstone of any faith, not thinking one is superior to another. Spread the positives of the faith to others. I see the various religions as different pathways to the same ultimate goal. Everyone has their own relative version of "truth" and a lot of it varies depending on where you are born and what your parents teach you. Good luck to you.

          January 9, 2014 at 6:53 pm |
        • what next?

          @ Lightbringer. I respect your opinion but you say you want evidence but when God sent His Son Jesus to live and die horribly for our sins – witnessed by 4 witnesses; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John – who were EYE witnesses you refuse to accept it?
          Those men lived and worked with Jesus. They reported His words, works and miracles. John stood at the foot of the Cross with Mary, Jesus' Mother, as He died. They witnessed the Resurrection and reported that too.

          What's the point of asking for evidence if you throw it out? Evidence of God's love is all there for the taking.

          January 10, 2014 at 10:10 am |
        • Lightbringer

          So you can prove that they are indeed eye witnesses? Good luck with that. Biblical scholars agree that the 4 gospels included in the bible were written decades after the crucifixion by folks that did not witness the events for themselves. Why do you choose not to believe the other eyewitness accounts, for example the gospel of Mary Magdalene? Why do you choose to ignore the eyewitnesses that verify the Egyptian gods or the gnostic gospels? What about the greek gods? There are alleged eyewitness to all of them. How is it that you know for an absolute fact that the biblical "eye witnesses" are correct while the others are not? Please explain how you came to know this as fact.

          January 10, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
  9. Span.k Your Imam

    mzh, here do not be spewing thusly voluminously without prior vigourous spanking of backside of yourself and closely adjacent imam.

    It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance. If Allah is willing your soreness will eventually subside and you may get back to riding your camel and your usual monkey spanking so profusely.

    Here it is written and must be so.
    Here it is written and must be so.
    Here it is written and must be so.
    Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

    January 9, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
    • mzh

      Why would you be so harsh on anyone or any teaching my friend? Where no one is forcing you to accept anything, nor you are being forced to do/believe what you do/believe currently...

      I wish you peace my friend...

      January 9, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
      • Span.k Your Imam

        mzh, do not again speak thusly without prior vigorous spanking of yourself and closely adjacent imam. Such is deserved harshness that you shall aspire to achieve worthiness for after attaining sufficient blushness of backside. It has now been written and so must be so.

        It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance. If Allah is willing your soreness will eventually subside and you may get back to riding your camel and your usual monkey spanking so profusely.

        It has now been written and so must be so.

        Here it is written and must be so.
        Here it is written and must be so.
        Here it is written and must be so.
        Said thricely and again more. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

        January 9, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
        • mzh

          Thank you S.. 🙂

          January 9, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
        • Span.k Your Imam

          mzh, your further response should not be made without prescribed spanking of yourself and imam. How red are you as measured? Sufficiency blush level before output shall be the sequence.

          Here it is written and must be so.
          Here it is written and must be so.
          Here it is written and must be so.
          Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

          January 9, 2014 at 8:07 pm |
  10. mzh

    This is some of the verses in the Quran that talks about Satan (Iblis):

    Shayteen (Satan) – is the name of a nation like human
    Iblis – is the one from this nation who disobeyed the order of Allah
    They are created by smokeless fire, they see us but we do not see them, they have male / female like human, and ability to disobey the order of Allah like human (Free Will)...

    - The First DISOBEDIENT by Satan
    7:11 – And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblis (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate.

    - Satan is not fallen angel but he is one from the nation of Jinn who has been created by smokeless fire with free will as human
    18:50 – And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zalimun (polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc).

    - The reaction of Satan after being disobedient is being Jealous rather acknowledge of mistake
    7:12 – (Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblis said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay."

    7:13 – (Allah) said: "(O Iblis) get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out, for you are of those humiliated and disgraced."

    7:14 – (Iblis) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."

    7:15 – (Allah) said: "You are of those allowed respite."

    7:16 – (Iblis) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path.

    - The vow of Satan for the mankind

    7:17 – Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)."

    7:18 – (Allah) said (to Iblis) "Get out from this (Paradise) disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all."

    - The Second DISOBEDIENT by Satan

    7:19 – "And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zalimun (unjust and wrong-doers)."

    7:20 – Then Shaitan (Satan) whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts (before); he said: "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save you should become angels or become of the immortals."

    7:21 – And he [Shaitan (Satan)] swore by Allah to them both (saying): "Verily, I am one of the sincere well-wishers for you both."

    7:22 – So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to stick together the leaves of Paradise over themselves (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Shaitan (Satan) is an open enemy unto you?"

    - The reaction of Adam and Eve after they listened to Satan – acknowledge the mistake and asking for forgiveness

    7:23 – They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers."

    - Referring to this earthly life

    7:24 – (Allah) said: "Get down, one of you an enemy to the other [i.e. Adam, Hawwa (Eve), and Shaitan (Satan), etc.]. On earth will be a dwelling-place for you and an enjoyment, – for a time."

    7:25 – He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e. resurrected)."

    - The COMMAND to mankind

    7:26 – O Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc.) and as an adornment, and the raiment of righteousness, that is better. Such are among the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, that they may remember (i.e. leave falsehood and follow truth).

    7:27 – O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitan (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents [Adam and Hawwa (Eve)] out of Paradise, stripping them of their raiments, to show them their private parts. Verily, he and Qabiluhu (his soldiers from the jinns or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them. Verily, We made the Shayatin (devils) Auliya' (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not.

    - Everyone will be told on that day to call whomever they worshipped in this life
    18:52 – And [warn of] the Day when He will say, "Call 'My partners' whom you claimed," and they will invoke them, but they will not respond to them. And We will put between them [a valley of] destruction.

    Satan did not say that Allah has a son or a daughter or has partner (s) or Allah is one of third (like trinity) but his mistake was just disobey the order of Allah and which is why he was cursed...

    Peace!!!

    January 9, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
    • Steve

      Did you ever stop to think you have been tricked by the real "evil" one? Allah and Yahweh come off as much worse beings than Lucifer.

      January 9, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
      • mzh

        Steve,

        Nope...

        How can The Creator be worse than a tiny little creation (creature)? does not make any sense, does it?

        This statement is not something new in this time... this type of statement had always been there during any prophet... and so during the time of the revelation of the quran...

        As quran teaches to communicate in a situation like this is... 'you do your religion and I do mine'... so no harm my friend... i only wish nothing but peace and all the bests for you...

        Peace!!!

        January 9, 2014 at 2:24 pm |
        • Span.k Your Imam

          mzh, do not speak thusly without prior vigourous spanking of backside of yourself and closely adjacent imam.

          It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance. If Allah is willing your soreness will eventually subside and you may get back to riding your camel and your usual monkey spanking so profusely.

          Here it is written and must be so.
          Here it is written and must be so.
          Here it is written and must be so.
          Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

          January 9, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
      • what next?

        Read the New Testament – it was written by FOUR eye witnesses. They weren't ignorant as some would claim – for instance Luke was a doctor! John stood at the foot of the Cross with Mary, Jesus' Mother, when He died.

        Some people believe Tom Hanks' film was gospel but they didn't know enough to understand the difference between San Greal and Sang Real – but they convinced the great unwashed that they were knowledgeable!!!! Phtttt!

        January 9, 2014 at 10:14 pm |
        • Lightbringer

          Please prove it. Prove that the gospels were not deceptions and that the myths are true. Good luck. Remember there are eyewitnesses to Horus and Zeus as well.

          January 10, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • Dandintac

          Light–ever hear of Sathya Sai Baba? There are not just four witnesses–there are literally thousands of witnesses to his miracles. And furthermore, we don't have to rely on an old book–many, possibly most of these witnesses are still alive and can be questioned and identified, unlike the supposed witnesses in the Bible. Look him up. Do you accept Sai Baba's witnesses as evidence of his divinity? Many people do. Do you? If not, why not?

          January 10, 2014 at 11:21 pm |
    • mzh

      Some more details...

      15:28 – And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

      15:29 – So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him.

      15:30 – So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together.

      15:31 – Except Iblis (Satan), – he refused to be among the prostrators.

      15:32 – (Allah) said: "O Iblis (Satan)! What is your reason for not being among the prostrators?"

      15:33 – [Iblis (Satan)] said: "I am not the one to prostrate myself to a human being, whom You created from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud."

      15:34 – (Allah) said: "Then, get out from here, for verily, you are Rajim (an outcast or a cursed one)." [Tafsir At-Tabari]

      15:35 – "And verily, the curse shall be upon you till the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."

      15:36 – [Iblis (Satan)] said: "O my Lord! Give me then respite till the Day they (the dead) will be resurrected."

      15:37 – Allah said: "Then, verily, you are of those reprieved,

      15:38 – "Till the Day of the time appointed."

      15:39 – [Iblis (Satan)] said: "O my Lord! Because you misled me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all.

      15:40 – "Except Your chosen, (guided) slaves among them."

      15:41 – (Allah) said: "This is the Way which will lead straight to Me."

      15:42 – "Certainly, you shall have no authority over My slaves, except those who follow you of the Ghawin (Mushrikun and those who go astray, criminals, polytheists, and evil-doers, etc.).

      January 9, 2014 at 2:17 pm |
      • Span.k Your Imam

        mzh,do not be spewing thusly voluminously without prior vigourous spanking of backside of yourself and closely adjacent imam.

        It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance. If Allah is willing your soreness will eventually subside and you may get back to riding your camel and your usual monkey spanking so profusely.

        Here it is written and must be so.
        Here it is written and must be so.
        Here it is written and must be so.
        Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

        January 9, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
  11. Personal request

    1.) Get rid of the kids beside it

    2.) Give it a human face

    3.) Put it up for auction

    January 9, 2014 at 8:51 am |
    • mzh

      PR:

      Why would it be in human face where no one knows how satan looks? and where human is the best creature among the entire creation as the Quran teaches:

      We have created man in the best of stature – 95:5

      I understand that human does wrong things to other fellow human...

      January 9, 2014 at 11:45 am |
    • Lightbringer

      Why would you deny the Truth?

      January 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
      • mzh

        Lightbringer:

        I believe every human being created so special and the entire universe is subjected to serve the human and only human among the entire creation has been given the ability to chose or not to chose (in the case of accepting the Creator as One without any sort of partners or rejecting)…

        Hitlar was not born as hitlar but a normal human being, any other tyrant in our time or any time was not born as what they are but they were born as an innocent human and when then get little older they started talking against their parents and so their Creator and only human is the creature that is being ungrateful to their Creator…

        Also I would like to keep in mind that human changes their mentality… today could be different than yesterday as we experience lot of examples like that…

        Peace!!!

        January 9, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
  12. mzh

    And they all shall appear before Allah (on the Day of Resurrection) then the weak will say to those who were arrogant (chiefs): "Verily, we were following you; can you avail us anything from Allah's Torment?" They will say: "Had Allah guided us, we would have guided you. It makes no difference to us (now) whether we rage, or bear (these torments) with patience, there is no place of refuge for us." – 14:21

    And Shaitan (Satan) will say when the matter has been decided: "Verily, Allah promised you a promise of truth. And I too promised you, but I betrayed you. I had no authority over you except that I called you, so you responded to me. So blame me not, but blame yourselves. I cannot help you, nor can you help me. I deny your former act in associating me (Satan) as a partner with Allah (by obeying me in the life of the world). Verily, there is a painful torment for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.)." – 14:22

    And those who believed (in the Oneness of Allah and His Messengers and whatever they brought) and did righteous deeds, will be made to enter Gardens under which rivers flow, – to dwell therein forever (i.e.in Paradise), with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein will be: Salam (peace!). 14:23

    Peace!!!

    January 9, 2014 at 7:29 am |
    • Jessi Star

      Hi

      January 9, 2014 at 8:28 am |
      • mzh

        Hello...

        January 9, 2014 at 10:21 am |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Moohamed can suck a fat one.

      January 9, 2014 at 8:32 am |
      • mzh

        My friend Honey:

        Why would you be so harsh on anyone or any teaching my friend? Where no one is forcing you to accept anything, nor you are being forced to do/believe what you do/believe currently...

        I would be careful to use the words as I believe you are from first world contry and your behave should be an example to the people of third world country...

        I only wish nothing but the bests for you...

        January 9, 2014 at 10:33 am |
        • Span.k Your Imam

          mzh, do not be spewing thusly without prior vigourous spanking of backside of yourself and closely adjacent imam.

          It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance.

          Here it is written and must be so.
          Here it is written and must be so.
          Here it is written and must be so.
          Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

          January 9, 2014 at 2:34 pm |
    • Span.k Your Imam

      mzh, do not be spewing thusly voluminously without prior vigourous spanking of backside of yourself and closely adjacent imam.

      It is written, no more shall prodigious humping of imams and goats be accomplished without sanctified vestal goats present. We have ready goats present nearby in Tehran to satisfy said requirements. Prepare yourself for red posteriority and take the appropriate stance. If Allah is willing your soreness will eventually subside.

      Here it is written and must be so.
      Here it is written and must be so.
      Here it is written and must be so.
      Said thricely. Pay attention even in your red blushness of present moment.

      January 9, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
  13. A poem for my invisobuddy

    When I was only five years old
    My stuffed rabbit and you
    Hid away in a tree outside
    The day I lost my shoe.

    By fifteen I would picture you
    Beside my bed at night
    I'd tell of of my sorrows
    When my foks and I would fight.

    By twenty five religion came
    And with it politics
    I never could be sure of course
    Where in it you would fit.

    It ususally occured to me
    that you aren't what you seem
    And many times I told myself
    That you were just a dream

    Though now my favorite part of you
    Is the part I thought was odd
    You never really said if you're
    an angel, ghost,or god

    So now I can claim no one's wrong
    There's no one I can blame
    Because no matter what you shared
    you never gave your name

    January 9, 2014 at 6:18 am |
  14. saggyroy

    I don;t think we are tortured if we go to Hell. Why would Lucifer torture someone who did his will? If he does then any god is screwed up.

    January 9, 2014 at 5:46 am |
    • Name (required)

      A couple things have to occur for this to happen

      a.) Lucifer and Hell must both exist.

      b.) If they do and you are both their then Lucifer must be able to withstand the agony of it to the extent that he can work up the energy to torture you. (This is assuming of course that he and it both exist and that the two of you are not writhing together in agony on a dirty floor somewhere)

      c.) Christianity must be correct in its entirety meaning that Vishnu didn't send you both back to be reincarnated as mall security in Santa Clara, or some other possibility.

      I really don't know of course, but I hope not to be joining you either in hell or at the Santa Clara mall.

      January 9, 2014 at 6:37 am |
      • aldewacs2

        Well, that's another post that went way above the typical believer's head.

        January 10, 2014 at 9:23 am |
    • what next?

      Our Lady of Fatima showed the 3 children [Lucy, Francis and Jacintha ] hell – after promising that they would never go there. The reality of hell is hideous.
      God does not SEND people to hell – He loves us all; they CHOOSE to go by denying God and the commandments.

      To blame God is to deny personal responsibility – and THAT is a sin!

      January 10, 2014 at 10:19 am |
      • Piccolo

        So god spends his time showing hell to 3 children, rather than just showing everybody? Why would he not show the whole world or even a single adult, if he REALLY wanted people to do good deeds and follow him rather than fight over versions of his image? How can you choose anything, when no choice has even presented itself? There is just as much evidence for Horus & Zeus as there is for Jehovah. If you choose Jehovah and it turns out Horus is the true god, then you are screwed because of your blind allegiance to a book that you can't even verify as truth.

        January 10, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
      • Dandintac

        Stalin did not SEND people to the Gulag They CHOSE to go to the Gulag by denying Stalin and disobeying his orders. He really loved them, but he could not deny them the opportunity to exercise their free will.

        January 10, 2014 at 11:41 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.