When you were here before
Couldn't look you in the eye
You're just like an angel ;-)
Your skin makes me cry
You float like a feather
In a beautiful world
I wish I was special
You're so very special
But I'm a creep
I'm a wierdo
What the hell am I doin' here
I don't belong here
I don't care if it hurts
I wanna have control
I wanna perfect body
I want a perfect soul
I want you to notice
When I'm not around
You're so very special
I wish I was special....
The lights go out and I can't be saved
Tides that I tried to swim against
Have brought me down upon my knees
Oh I beg, I beg and plead singing
Come out of things unsaid
Shoot an apple off my head
And a trouble that can't be named
A tiger's waiting to be tamed singing
Confusion never stops
Closing walls and ticking clocks
Gonna come back and take you home
I could not stop that you now know singing
Come out upon my seas
Cursed missed opportunities
Am I a part of the cure?
Or am I part of the disease? Singing
Read more: Coldplay – Clocks Lyrics | MetroLyrics
And again, this whole discussion largely devolves into "how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin".
If the existence of god(s) cannot be proven, then all, yes **ALL** this talk about devils, angels, bible, etc etc is just busywork for weak minded morons.
With all due respect, of course...
"No laughing, no joking, no writing fiction on the CNN belief blogs you weak minded morons..no offense."
Nobody ever thinks about what we want. If we are in your body, we are a guest. We don't have a body so we need to borrow yours for a bit. We want to try cappuccino. We want to experience body surfing or shopping at one of those perfumed soap stores. So do us a favor and stop with all the exorcism. Take us out to dinner and maybe treat us to a massage.
to the swine
Out out out, never mind what we might want.
Same old same old, not even a "Hey thank you for inventing eye liner". Ingrates.
"Have you read the news
In the Soho Tribune?
Ya know she did me
Well, then she broke my heart
Im such a good good boy
I just need a new toy
I tell ya what, girl, dance for me
I'll keep you overemployed
Just tell me a story, you know the one I mean..."
Believing in stupid carp like this is what makes a mom stab two of her children to death. Religion should be outlawed.
badger...all carp are stupid...that was redundant.
Stop believing in carp, start believing in cod.
do it for the hallibut
My "post" button has disappeared. Testing.
hmmmm, I just clicked in the general area where the button should be, but.....?
where did it go then- did that funky red horned thingy take it by chance ?
Yeah, surely I am in need of an exorcist.
If you say so . And the President of the US is going to met someone that thinks exorcisms or real wow ?
. they are good for me as i am a believer in partic ipating in women's health proc edures
. they are good for me as i am a believer in partic ipating in women's health proc edures
everyone should have 5 or 6 a b o r t ens
no need to use hangars
vacuum that kid right out of your hair
you know i'm still waiting for lucifer/the devil/etc etc etc to make an appearence or "inspire" his own book that tells his side of this whole father/son dispute; oddly we haven't ever heard anything out of him.
please if you are going to say "he is trying to convince you he doesn't exist" yet we have demonic possessions which would prove that lucifer exists, then don't bother replying.
He already inspired a book. It is called the Bible.
Think about it.
1) God would not have gotten so many things wrong.
2) Since it was created, the bible has been the source of conflict, belief in the bible has caused wars, faster spread of disease, attempted genocide, death and destruction, murders.
3) 40, 000 versions of Christianity, and no two people interpret the bible the same way...chaos in interpretation, chaos, a tool of the devil.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to inspire the bible, and convince everyone god did it...and doesn't that sound like something satan would do.
And god created satan, right?... what a joke.... It's a shame when people confuse mythology with reality.
god created you. you decide you r a a piece of virus
up 2 u
little yellow fingered smoking girl
60 million destroyed lives have got 2 b making chicks healthy as horses
I wouldn't joke about the devil....Sheesh
"I wouldn't joke about the devil....Sheesh"
What else am I supposed to do on my dinner break?
God created an angel named Michael,' not to be confused with The Archangel Michael. satan wanted power, other angels to worship it. It wanted more power than God, even attempted bargaining with Him.
God said, 'No way! I do not bargain with you.'
The Archangel Michael tossed satan's ass down the pits of hell.
Perhaps the earth is hell or God might have abandoned us.
Think about it. Since people stopped going to church, praying, etc, violence is worse than ever. Neighbors no longer trust one another, people are screwier than ever.
I'm not trying to convert anyone...I'm certain most here are adults, know the difference between right and wrong.
I was raised Catholic, but no longer attend mass. I pray at home.
You were created by the Creator our loving eternally loving Father. As proof of that he has given everyone the ability to enjoy his love. If you want to know his rightousness try his wonderful Son Jesus right now by asking him that you want to know him.
I tried to summon Satan a couple of times when I was a kid, nothing happened. Unless you count getting VH1 for free on Friday the thirteenth at midnight. That did happen. However, unfortunately it's all I have to show for it and I can't prove it now, so draw your own conclusions.
Saw the movie The Exorcist, great stuff. I always wondered where the demon goes after entering into Father Damien Karras and him doing the right thing and killing himself, but what about the demon, had to go somewhere?
We only get a glimpse here and there. Burger King summoned him I think when they were developing the Angry Whopper.
What about the black dog showing up at your house with a pizza while VH1 was playing for free?
quantum mechanics or principles explains the spokiness of reality that the devil or satan.or miracles can even exist in our lives, beause the wisdom of God is beyond our comprehension ,He is 12,700,000,000 billion years old compared to our less than 100 years.
Through the quantum fluctuations of chronometric tachyon fields, one can surmise that at its core, the Universe is composed of Heinsenberg pulse waves interacting on the quantum level.
Of course, these gravimetric oscillations can only be observed indirectly, but by noting their influence on the sub-atomic quantum flanging, the ferfanational matrices of gestalt knoncleotides proves, beyond a doubt, that the entire fabric of reality as we perceive it is nothing more than the passing whimsy of quantum midichlorians.
Quantum quantum quantum.
– Deepak Chopra
quantum phycisist today understood only a very infinitisimal section of quantum mechanics ,although they can observe its effects ,its like comparing arithmetic of the early Arab mathematcians to modern mathematicians who understood higher calculus and matrices. In the near future computationa methods of analysing history and religion will reveal the depths of its scientific significance and therefore all faith will converge towards Panthrotheism.
when I research my highschool subject in human anatomy i encounterd a part called vestbule of the vulva ,is it related to our birth and evolution
"Panthrotheism" = no such word. Me thinks you practice schlockism.
the most convincing evidence of God of panthrotheism is the scientific proof of the Big bang,becasue after billions of years of evolution when we humans developed cosnsciousness we began to think of Him,God is the source of everything and all religions .There never was a time in History that atheists exist,only in this present stage of our intellectual developement that they deny His exisrence,but it can be easily explained that they are just part of the dialectical process of having to have two opposing arguments or forces to arrive to the truth,The opposing forces today are the theists or religious believers of all religions and the other are the atheists who denies religion,The reslultant truth in the future will be Panthrotheism,the belief that we are all one with the whole universe with God,and that we Had all to unite to prepare for human survival that will subject us humans in the future.Aided by the the enlightend consevationist ,environmentalists,humanists and all of the concerned activists,we will develop a kind of universal harmony and awareness that we are all guided towards love and concern for all of our specie.The great concern of the whole conscious and caring world to the natural disaster in the Phillipines ,,the most theist country now is a positive sign towards this religious direction.Panthrotheism means we will be One with God.
Very high woo factor in your post there, neved. Careful about that next time. You haven't maxed out the woo scale yet, but if you do, be careful. The resultant mean free path will mean carrier lifetimes so short that Sprint will be out of business.
pamela, thanks for the info,Im excited that at least scientist had recognize it
Previous posts by Lawrence of Arabia.
Dec 31, 2013
"And I'll say this one more time...I don't interpret the Bible. I don't have the authority to do that. I simply read it, the Bible interprets itself."
"I don't have opinions about scripture...That implies agreement or disagreement, with the a$$umption that agreement grants merit to its veracity. I just read it as it is and let it speak for itself."
So what we have on this very page puts a lie to the previous posts of LofA. This pompous arrogant pseudo intellectual has to tell anyone that will listen or read what he KNOWS the scriptures mean not just for him but for everyone. This kind of "I am the only true Christian" type is a special kind of bigot that can throw a billion plus fellow Christians into disrepute because they do not believe as he does. How strange it is that Christian cults have such disdain for each other but will band together to ward off the advances of secularism, hypocrisy!
Same goes for Rainy, or Gopher, or Lie4Him, etc
Yes, the common thread among our fundie friends is that they have given up the ability to use logic and reason in their lives. All answers can be found in their bible, even the Higgs boson.
If you can prove that the bible displays a precise an@logy that clearly expresses the properties of the Higgs, you're about to be extremely rich and famous. Congratulations. I'll catch you on the talk shows and 24-hour news networks.
Sarcasm. Of course the biblical version of quantum mechanics and particles physics will be explained by our fundie friends, be patient. My guess it will be fred or Topher they can imagine anything to prop up their beliefs.
Sarcasm. Of course the biblical version of quantum mechanics and particle physics will be explained by our fundie friends, be patient. My guess it will be fred or Topher they can imagine anything to prop up their beliefs.
There's a right way and a wrong way for just about everything on the earth. If you lift weights the wrong way, you're going to hurt yourself. If you don't use proper PPE around live wires, you could be killed.
Proper theology is not determined by popular, nor personal opinion. Some things are true whether you choose to believe in them or not, and post modern thinking is most in error when it comes to matters of faith. In America, one has a RIGHT to believe whatever they wish, but no one has a right to make their belief true.
I can sincerely believe that instead of a park bench, I'm actually sitting on a green chicken, but the sincerity of my belief doesn't make it so.
Likewise, there is only one God, and if you choose to believe in some errant variant of that God, such as papists have chosen to do, then you are wrong. And telling someone they are wrong isn't wrong or hateful, it in fact can be the most loving thing that someone can do – whether you are instructing someone on the proper technique for a bench press, or showing someone how to properly wear electrical hazard PPE, or teaching theology proper.
Lawrence of Arabia
There you go again. "Likewise, there is only one God, and if you chose to believe in some errant variety of that God..." you say. So you, as the determiner of all that is true, immediately disregard all the other of the thousands of Gods and their variants and all other Christians that do not believe as you do!! Just who the hell do you think you are? Pompous arrogant pseudo intellectual, believe what you will in your little bubble of fantasy.
"So you, as the determiner of all that is true, immediately disregard all the other of the thousands of Gods and their variants and all other Christians that do not believe as you do!!
No, I am the determiner of nothing. The Bible is the measuring rod, the canon.
Just who the *&#% do you think you are? Pompous arrogant pseudo intellectual, believe what you will in your little bubble of fantasy
I am the wretch that the song is about.
Lawrence of Arabia
One thing we can agree on you are wretched. Like most of your ilk you chose not to respond to your previous statements that you do not interpret the bible/scriptures. In my opinion that is all you ever do, this passage or that means... You never let the bible speak for itself, you always put your twist on the words to fit your fundie agenda.
"In my opinion that is all you ever do"
All that you have to do is read whatever passage that I quote in its context to see if what I have said about a particular passage is untrue.
And the snake LOA go figure ?
The issue, as people keep pointing out to you, is that "theology" isn't synonymous with "Christianity" and "proper theology" encompasses far more than your particular sect.
Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Baha'i, Jainists, Gnostics, Vajrayanists, Seicho-no-Ieinists, Cheondoists, and Tenrikyoists are but a few example of other believers with perfectly legitimate "proper" monotheistic theologies.
The adherents of those religions are no less sincere or devout than you and they have exactly the same amount of evidence to support their beliefs.
You are correct in stating that truth is not determined by consensus, but neither should feelings (like faith) be construed as facts. Your beliefs are just that – subjective, personal, unquantifiable beliefs.
Everybody know that what's in their "heart" is right and true, but facts are sterile – neither vulgar nor sublime.
We do not believe in cunningly devised fables as some do. But our faith is based on the report of eye witnesses that were cross examined in their time and not found to be fraudulent. Even the apostles in their letters appealed to living people at the time to be cross examined for truth.
The fact that we are so far removed from that time, and with no ability to speak to those witnesses has no bearing on its truths. People just have a tendancy to dismiss what they cannot readily see. Especially when they have been lied to for so many years.
The Gospels were written some 50 years after the Crucifixtion.
The average life-span in those days was around 45 years – the likelihood of any original eyewitnesses still being around to testify to the Gospel authors is extremely low, not to mention the fact that even the classical historian Josephus said that 20 years is long enough to render witness testimony useless.
And what exactly did they witness?
Two of the gospels begin before Christ's birth. Were the authors there to witness? How did they know what Joseph dreamed? Were they there when Jesus went off to pray by himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?
The Gospels give different accounts of Christ's death and resurrection. How many people were at the emtpy tomb? Was it sealed or open? What were Christ's final words?
Why would a story based on reliable eyewitness testimony differ in such ways?
Lawrence of Arabia
Eye witness testimony is very unreliable even when taken immediately after the incident, check it out yourself. Over many years it is considered useless as Doc has said. Your reliance on such worthless so called evidence is ridiculous, especially when the eye witnesses have divergent stories to tell.
"The average life-span in those days was around 45 years "
actually, that's not correct, so your point is rather moot.
Psalm 90:10 – As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years, or if due to strength, eighty years...
Actually, if you read the Bible, the stories aren't divergent. Try reading a book that puts them in chronological order, like the book "One Perfect Life." It's not the only one that does so, but it's good.
Life EXPECTANCY, sir.
Most people died well before they reached old age as a result of disease or war.
And if "the years of lives are 70", what about all those Bible characters who lived for almost 1,000 years?
"what about all those Bible characters who lived for almost 1,000 years?"
Because David was writing long after the lives of the patriarchs. Sin is like a disease that effects every aspect of our lives, including life expectancy. Sin is the ultimate reason for sickness, disease, and death, and after God destroyed the earth by water, what emerged was radically different from what was first created. Many things changed, from ecology, to geography, and even biology, so that now, no longer would God allow man to live for centuries, but now, as David says, between 70 to 80 years is normal.
Incidentally... If one believes that eye witness accounts are too unreliable, then WHY believe anything that you didn't see for yourself? For eye witness accounts are all that we have...
Lawrence of Arabia
You can be very amusing. You maintain that the bible speaks for itself then recommend an apologist book that sorts out what the bible is supposed to mean, you are absurd.
"Sin is the ultimate reason for sickness, disease, and death" If you live in th 15th century.
Viruses and bacteria are the ultimate reason for sickness , disease. They are life forms that are trying to survive, competeiing with us and trying to use us as hosts. Only 10% of the cells in and on your body are human, the other 90% is the trillions of life forms that inhabit and live on your body....some of them can kill you if they get too numerous.
And the reason for death seems to be life, since all that lives dies...also, why do you think there is a reaason?
Get your head out of that silly book, don't you realize just how ignorant you sound when you say something like that?
Lawrence of Arabia
The average life expectancy in Rome during the first century is 29 years old, look it up, not in your fairy tale book. What we have to rely on in the modern world besides unreliable eye witness evidence is forensics and DNA. DNA has cleared many wrongfully convicted victims of your so called eye witness testimony. What world do you live in, some cloistered monastery where the modern world is shut out?
"eye witness accounts are all that we have..."
Except for testable, repeatable, demonstrable, tangible, empirical data.
Paleopatholgy demonstrates that humans most assuredly have never lived to be 1,000 years old.
""Sin is the ultimate reason for sickness, disease, and death"...........
Tell that to young children dying of leukemia, that their suffering is because of "sin"
You are one sick person!
@Lawrence of Arabia,
"There's a right way and a wrong way for just about everything on the earth."
Your analogy fails because in weightlifting, etc. there are objective measure as what is "proper" whereas in "theology" improper belief cannot be distinguished from proper belief.
Essentially, Theology is just the study of something that someone made up at some point.
Chicago Archdiocese Hid Decades of Child Se-x Abuse
ABC News - 8 hours ago
Top leaders at the Archdiocese of Chicago helped hide the se-xual abuse of children as they struggled to contain a growing crisis, according to ...
You can always tell when someones argument comes from a very selfish, self centered and self-serving position when they keep using the word "My". "My God" "My bible" "My religion" "My Church" "My salvation" "My My My My"...
Every now and then you might get an "Our" out of them, but only when they say "Jesus died for 'Our' sins" which is almost always followed by a judgemental "enjoy heII you atheist!" because apparently Jesus didn't die for ALL of our sins, just the smug Christians patting themselves on the back for being so awesome as to have been born into a Christian community in the US and thus divinely indoctrinated into the exact right religion out of the thousands available on the planet... So clever of them to be born here...
Well I guess "we" both better convince ourselves it is all true because otherwise it just won't work. Perhaps solipsism is the way to go with this one.
Dear Mr. Happy,
Although I thought this article was to be about Priests performing exorcisms, I do understand your frustration w the whole mind-frame that is put out there regarding religious sources & what family you may or may NOT be born into.
I was born into the "lucky one", as you say, but I have studied Religion & found that while it works as a crutch for ppl whilst on Earth, it makes no difference which religion – or lack of one – you are born into! When we die, NONE of us knows what will happen!
I have read testimonial fro those who have said that we all become "love" or part of the bigger picture – & many, many others but that's the one I like to think occurs. All of the other "after death" testimonials have that "SCARE FACTOR" to try to scare us toward a particular religion which I personally see as complete BS! Religion is meant to aid you, give you direction, to help DEAL w the uncertainty of THIS world but it should never use fear as a motivating factor.
Muslims have the highest number of followers in the world with Christianity having the 2nd. Does that make them RIGHT bc they have more followers?
My mother tells me "I had better believe or I am going to hell"! I like to believe any fair & just God would never do such a cruel thing, for what of all the billions of others NOT born into the "right religion"??! In my opinion, and part of being American, is to be FREE to believe what we wish & to feel safe doing so!
I hope you will find, Mr Happy, that ppl are not all the same just bc they were born into a particular religion or in a particular country.
And to all those ppl out there motivated to believe "just in case" ... consider my words and think for yourself. If your family wants to believe something it DOES NOT mean that YOU have to as well! Do not be a victim of FEAR!
Believe whatever feels good and right to you!
Oh & regarding the priests & demonology: they say whatever you TRULY BELIEVE works ... so if they feel the need to "cast out demons, .. GO FOR IT"!! (I'm glad that's not in MY job description)!! :0 :) good luck, mr happy!
I largely agree with what you say, but I have one important quibble I feel moved to point out. I don't believe religion is meant to help you. I know its followers want us to believe that, but I think really religion is fundamentally an instrument of control. It's about social control. At least this is true with regards to the desert religions of Abraham.
It is a dangerous thing to deny the presence of evil spirits in the world, but it is equally dangerous to think that man, by the performance of some ritual, has some power over them. As Jesus says in Matthew 17:19-21, they do not go out except by prayer and fasting... We do not have authority to cast out demons, not even the pope. Not even the angels of heaven are given authority to cast out demons – Jude 1:9. The authority to remove evil spirits rests in God alone (1 John 3:8).
Simply put, to remove the influence of any evil spirit, the only hope that any person has is salvation through Jesus.
Ah, "Matthew" – he's the one who knew so much about "spirits" that he also claimed that resurrected dead people walked the streets of Jerusalem and *many* saw them, but there is not One. Single. Report. of this *ever* happening (even by the other storytellers).
So, because there hasn't yet been an archeological find to corroborate the story, you're discounting it outright?
Did you know that until the 19th century when the city of Petra was re-discovered, skeptics maintained that the Edomites were a legendary people? And yet the Bible prophesied of their destruction as far back as 700 BC in Isaiah 34, Jeremiah 48, and Ezekiel 25....
"So, because there hasn't yet been an archeological find to corroborate the story, you're discounting it outright?"
Yes, that would be the reasonable thing to do.
So what of Petra and the Edomites? Many people discounted the Bible for that reason too, but once again, the Bible was proven correct.
What of Petra and the Edomites? What does one have to do with the other?
I don't use wikipedia often, but in this case I think it would help you out.
Ancient Troy (once considered only legendary) has been discovered too. That must mean that all of those gods and spirits that Homer and Virgil and others wrote about are real, right?
Not out of necessity, no.
But to discount an ancient doc.ument merely on the grounds of it mentioning a place or a people that you haven't heard of isn't logical. THAT was the point I intended to make.
"But to discount an ancient doc.ument merely on the grounds of it mentioning a place or a people that you haven't heard of isn't logical. THAT was the point I intended to make."
I think it's pretty rare that someone will use that as an example to dismiss the bible. Resurrected people is an entirely different category of claim.
If someone can't get past the first 4 words of the Bible without raising a "yeah, but" then how can they believe in resurrection?
Well, there is an entire category of people who go along with the first four words but don't accept the resurrection–Jews.
Actually, there are a LOT of Jews that believe in resurrection. Historically, it was the sect of the Sadducees that didn't believe in resurrection of the dead. It was only after Jesus accused them of not reading the scriptures (at that time it was the Old Testament) that they began to fade out of existence. (Matthew 22:29-33)
Acts 16:18: " She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her."
Looks like it can be done, after all.
The apostles, yes. They were given certain gifts as sign gifts to unbelieving people that would authenticate them as messengers of the true gospel. (scriptures available upon request)
This is not a gift given to the church as a whole, and ceased from use with the apostollic age.
"This is not a gift given to the church as a whole,.."
There are plenty who would disagree with you. Have any support for that idea?
"There are plenty who would disagree with you. Have any support for that idea?"
1 John 3:8 – The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil
Cross reference with Matthew 17:14-21, Mark 1:32-34, Mark 5:1-13, Luke 4:33-44
When Jesus commissioned His disciples, He grants them certain signs to authenticate them as messengers of God – that they were acting in His name, among these is authority over demons. Mark 16:14-20, Luke 10:17-20, Acts 5:12-16, Acts 8:5-7, Acts 16:18
Casting out of demons was an act of God, and was also a gift for the Apostles as a confirming miracle of their authority to deliver the gospel – such authority is NOT a gift for believers today. Hebrews 2:3-4, 2 Corinthians 12:12, Mark 16:20
“Submit therefore to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you” – James 4:7
“You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.” – 1 John 4:4
None of that supports your idea that it cannot still be done today.
Sure they do.
Then why don't you use the Bible to prove to me that miracles – specifically those of casting out demons – have not ceased with the church age?
The Bible has an ending point in its narrative–that doesn't mean nothing's happened since.
There is a theological point called Cessationalism. It is the Biblical notion that miracles have ceased to be normal...
This is not to say that God has stopped performing miracles, or that the Holy Spirit has stopped working, but only that the Apostolic miracles such as speaking in tongues, prophecy / revelation, and healings have ceased as a normative gift to individual believers:
1) The Holy Spirit’s purpose in imparting the “sign gifts,” has expired
2) The sign gifts were given exclusively to the original Twelve Apostles, so that the sign gifts and Apostleship are inextricably linked
3) The gift of Apostleship no longer exists
"It is the Biblical notion that miracles have ceased to be normal..."
You sure that's biblical? If so, why doesn't everyone in Christendom subscribe to it?
"You sure that's biblical? If so, why doesn't everyone in Christendom subscribe to it?"
Because not everyone who calls themselves "Christians" has actually read the Bible.
I'm guessing the pope has, and interprets it differently than you do.
"I'm guessing the pope has, and interprets it differently than you do."
That's because papists are not Christian. For reference, look at how they define justification, and how it differs from the Bible. They believe that Justification follows sanctification, making salvation a result of works. But Ephesians 2:8-9 and many other passages refute this anciant heresy.
Of course, someone who isn't saved isn't going to understand the Bible.
"That's because papists are not Christian."
Wow. Pretty arrogant. Reminds me of Sunnis and Shiites making similar claims about each other. At any rate, how do you explain away James 2:24?
At any rate, I'm guessing you think they're making the whole thing up whenever they talk about successful exorcisms?
James is saying that a man's faith is justified before others by the works that they perform...
1)James has already stated that salvation is a gracious gift (James 1:17-18)
See also: 1 Peter 1:3
2)James quotes Genesis 15:6 which claims that God credited righteousness to Abraham solely on the basis of his faith (James 2:23)
3)The “works” that James said justified Abraham was his offering up of Isaac (Genesis 22:9, 12), an event that occurred many years after he first exercised faith and was declared righteous before God (Genesis 12:1-7, Genesis 15:6).
4)Therefore James is emphasizing the vindication before others of his claim to salvation. (See underlined and bold text) God knows if our faith is genuine or not, but for others, it takes the manifestation of works that naturally flow out of a saving faith to prove to them that our salvation is genuine.
You can easily see James’ point about vindication before others when you read the whole chapter
"At any rate, I'm guessing you think they're making the whole thing up whenever they talk about successful exorcisms?"
I don't think that they are making it up so much as they are being fooled... Always bear in mind that Satan can perform miracles too, so just because you may witness a miracle, it may not be of God. Acts 8:11, Acts 13:6
Matthew 9:34 reveals that by the time that Jesus came and was performing true miracles of God, the people were so accustomed to Satan counterfeiting the works of God that they said that Jesus was “casting out demons by the ruler of demons”
Papist are not christians?
Gee, you are Rainy would make a fine couple.
Perhaps you should move in together
But don't expect to marry, that would be immoral
" the apostollic age"
I always wondered about that.
So at the end of that, did someone just throw a light switch somewhere and say "OK fellas, the age of unreason is over"?
I have read many of your post on here, as well how others that have responded to what you have been saying. This is what has prompted me to write a response to you, that I hope you will see.
Before I respond let me preface this by saying I do believe in Christ and that He is the only way. This is not to say that I deny others their right to believe in what they well. There is a right and wrong way to have a discussion and to attempt to “force feed” someone that which you believe to be true is not effective. Remember it’s written that they heard Jesus gladly.
A few corrections in what you have said to offer clarity for anyone that reads your comment. You wrote the following:
“It is a dangerous thing to deny the presence of evil spirits in the world, but it is equally dangerous to think that man, by the performance of some ritual, has some power over them. As Jesus says in Matthew 17:19-21, they do not go out except by prayer and fasting... We do not have authority to cast out demons, not even the pope. Not even the angels of heaven are given authority to cast out demons – Jude 1:9. The authority to remove evil spirits rests in God alone (1 John 3:8).”
Jude 1:9 was not about the in ability to cast out a demon rather more simply not continuing to argue and saying something that he should not simply replying “The Lord rebuke you” (there was not a possessed individual hence nothing to cast out)
Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Jude 1:9
1 John 3:8 does not state what you have claimed but rather it states:
“He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil”
This is referencing the reason God was made flesh.
The scripture you quoted in reference not being able to cast out demon’s (your main reason) states that the demon did not go out due to their unbelief, then when on to state that this kind (meaning not all) would not go out but by prayer and fasting The scripture states:
Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?” “So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. “However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.” Matthew 17:19-21
We cannot claim to accept the Bible as the Word of God, and then omit sections of a scripture simply to support a stance. In terms of authority of those that believe, including casting out demons you are correct that man cannot; however we have the authority to do so in Jesus name.
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; “they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:17-18
What you have been saying is that we have no power as a Believer and that could not be further from the truth, and honestly rather dangerous to hold that as truth. To believe what you have stated is to say that demons and the like have dominion over us as we would be powerless against them (as we cannot believe in Jesus and deny that demons still actively work against Him and those that believe).
I could continue on with the vast majority of your post, but I am not here to start an argument. Simply put how you are going about this is not the way to share our faith with anyone, no one would listen and in all honesty why would they? Presenting ourselves as holier than everyone else will never allow another to even feel comfortable to learn what it is that we believe and as to why we do.
We are to show the world, by our actions (you shall know a tree by its fruit) not by constantly pointing a finger in their chest and saying you’re wrong. The world will not be won over by such methods, but through the actions we display in our daily lives. Our willingness to explain our beliefs without hesitation or remorse (to deny the Word is to deny the power therein), but also to do so without being so guard or defensive (as it could be perceived as hostile or as holier than thou).
I hope that you receive what I have written in the spirit that it was intended.
The amazing trick isn't Satan fooling the world into thinking he doesn't exist. The trick is fooling the world into thinking there is some invisible evil spirit that made you do bad things so you can shift the blame for the greed, the selfishness and the hubris with which most religious zealots conduct themselves.
It is dangerous to believe in "evil spirtis, demons" etc. since belief in that which there is no evidence for sometimes causes people to do stupid things, like try to remove whatever spirits someone thinks are there.
During the Black Plague, the believers believed that the plague was the work of satan, and they also believed ( without any foundation for the beliefs at all) that cats were the devils familiars, so to fight the plague, they killed all the cats they could find, eliminating the best defence they could have to the plague...the cats that kill the rats who's fleas carried the plague.
Idiotic beliefs who's end result was to help the disease kill all the more people. Belief in god? Certainly not only not helpful, but VERY harmful.
Superst!tion... nothing more.
You say that as if EVERY one who called themselves "Christian" believed what you say. You can't make generalizations like that when you know that's not true.
If a Christian makes a claim that cannot be backed up by the Bible, then it is opinion, not doctrine.
Since the edict to kill cats came from the church, and was taught to the people (otherwise it would not have been everywhere) by the churches leaers, the correlation can be verified.
Belief in christianity definitely worked against humanity, nad led to many, many more deaths, incalculable lives lost, due to silly superst!tions fed by belief in myths.
Why would god want that? extra people dying because of belief in "him"?
So, god still allows demons to possess people but has taken away the ability to expel them? That's nice.
God didn't "take away" man's ability to "cast out demons." Men never had that ability... Only Jesus had that ability, and He shared that with the apostles for a very short time. We have a much greater weapon against evil spirits than those who think their rituals do anything – and that weapon is prayer.
Huh? I thought you said it can't be done any more? Why does it matter if you speak a prayer out loud or not? That's all they claim to be doing–they don't say they are able to do it themselves.
Have you done any studies yourself on this topic to know what rituals they go through? What kind of training they have to go through to "perform the rite of exorcism?" Or have you just looked at the news for your information?
Trust me, they believe they hold the power... Or at least that the rituals or incantations hold the power...
"Have you done any studies yourself on this topic to know what rituals they go through?"
Of course not, but I'd wager they're invoking the name of Jesus. Doesn't sound like they think they can do it themselves.
If they don't feel that certain priests have the ability to perform exorcisms, then why are only some people trained and "allowed" to do so? Why do they feel that only certain prayers said in the right way, and with certain actions and in specific rituals actually "work?" No, they weild the name of God as if it were an incantation. It's a violation of the 3rd commandment in the most gross way.
I would guess that they believe those who are unprepared would be less likely to succeed, and possibly unleash some harm.
it is rational to deny the presence of evil spirits, or good spirits in the world, larry
the only people who need salvation are slaves
"the only people who need salvation are slaves"
EXACTLY! You've got it!
and christians are slaves to their imaginary god.
The photo at the top of the article... the pope is saying... "nice head!"
Satan, the modern day demon of the demented !!!!!!!!!
God love him <3
Because they tend to dismiss the deuterocanonical texts, American Protestants aren't as prepared as Catholics in the event of demonic possession.
In the Book of Tobit, the ever so helpful Angel Azariah instructs a young fisherman in the many uses of ichthyan entrails, like direct ocular application of the gall bladder to cure glaucoma.
Azariah also gives a simple home remedy for all manner of evil spirit infestation!
Simply burn the fish's heart and liver on an altar and the smoke will drive out any demons in the vicinity.
Burning fish guts – for simple, effective relief from even the most stubborn demon.
The power of Christ compels you to come on down to Ol' Doc Vestibule's Discount Fish Offal Warehouse!
Get brand name organs at discount prices!
But wait.... there's more!
Order in the next 30 minutes and I'll throw in a 12 oz. bag of ram's blood – **absolutely free**
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THE 800 NUMBER!
THE 800 NUMBER!
YOU DIDN'T GIVE US THE 800 NUMBER! HOW CAN I ORDER 2!!!!!!!!
Heck, I can go to 99 Ranch and get all the fish guts I can carry for a couple of bucks. Wanna start a religion with me?
more proof that all religion is just primitive voodoo.
Some of them are not ancient.
(Scientology – I'm talking to you!)
I stand corrected
(Alias – I'm talking to you!)
How many evil spirits can you host in your body before you have problems? I want to see it like when twenty students fit in one phone booth. Can someone's right leg function as a clown car for ticked off angels? You take off your shoe and one by one they all climb out of your sock.
Does a reverse excorcism save you dough in the long run over the regular kind? Sometimes I think my nephew Toolie needs one, but hey, who's can afford anything these days.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.