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February 10th, 2014
06:13 PM ET

Deaf pastor signs a mighty surprising message

Opinion by Justin Vollmar, special to CNN

(CNN) – When I was 18, I was drawn to a strict Christian sect known as Independent Fundamental Baptists. They convinced me that they were the only true church and I became a born-again, washed-in-blood Christian.

I left Gallaudet University, the nation’s premier school for deaf students, to enroll at Capital Baptist Deaf College, where I graduated with an unaccredited bachelor's degree in pastoral studies.

For the next seven years, I was a pastor in Silver Spring, Maryland, working 60 hours a week for little pay. My senior pastor was a harsh taskmaster, scolding me and always pushing me to work harder. Meanwhile, he earned $80,000 a year and played golf two times a week. I lived in poverty and did not see my children much. I got burned out.

I resigned my position and was shunned by the church. My faith in God was severely shaken. I started to have doubts about the Bible’s claims. I questioned whether God’s love, which is supposed to reside inside Christians, was real.

Still, I didn’t quit the church.

Rather, for two years I became a pastor at a church that is part of the Southern Baptist Convention. I called myself a “contemporary Baptist,” in the vein of megachurch pastor Rick Warren's “purpose-driven church.”

But that pit-of-the-stomach worry stayed, as I wondered whether I would leave the church and go through another shunning.

During that time, I established an online preaching ministry, Virtual Deaf Church, for deaf people like myself. I had a fairly sizable audience - averaging 3,000 viewers for each video or vlog - about the same as a good-sized flesh-and-blood congregation.

But I still had lots of spiritual questions and studied shelves of theological books in search of answers. I struggled with many more contradictions I continued to discover.

For example, how could dozens of Christian denominations fight and call each other false churches? Why are there thousands of conflicting interpretations among Christians? How could God be so loving when he will send millions to hell?

I moved toward ecumenism and tried to promote unity among churches. Nevertheless, my doubts still churned in my heart.

One day in 2011, while I was preaching at my former church in College Park, Maryland, I had a surreal moment and  doubts completely seized my heart. I decided I could no longer be a pastor.

I resigned from my church and moved away to another state, and I have been living a life of ex-preacher for the last two years.

But I still did the vlogs, still preaching, in a way, about the very religion I was starting to walk away from.

I enrolled into Liberty University’s seminary, aspiring to be a scholar and hoping to get a doctorate in church history. I graduated with a master’s of arts in theology in December.

But, to my complete shock, I found that my doubts led me into atheism. As part of my study at Liberty, I was exposed to many criticisms against belief in God. After studying theology and philosophy, I realized the Bible was not the word of God. Supernatural miracles did not happen. Jesus Christ was a mythical figure who did not rise from the dead.

My faith completely collapsed, but a clarification settled in my heart.

I understood that God is an ancient but powerful superstition. I signed up for Clergy Project, where I found fellow ministers who doubted the existence of God. They helped me deal with emotions I felt and helped me set new goals for my life.

After months in secrecy, I came out as an atheist last Friday because I want to give Christians a chance to break free from their traditions and superstitions.

The reaction so far has been explosive. Christians were devastated and skeptics were delighted.

I've received hundreds of negative comments and e-mails from Christians and hundreds of positive comments and e-mails from the skeptics.

For now, I will continue doing vlogs, only now from a skeptical viewpoint.

Justin Vollmar is the founder of Virtual Deaf Church. The views expressed in this column belong to Vollmar.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Atheism • Baptist • Belief • Christianity • Journeys • Lost faith • Opinion

soundoff (574 Responses)
  1. joeyy1

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_F9nIps46w&w=640&h=360]

    February 14, 2014 at 10:37 am |
  2. truth1914

    Jesus talked about the sheep and the goats and in these critical last days people are truly defining what they stand for and whom they side with. Matthew the 7th chapter and the 24th chapter are a must read because the composite sign is on this generation in an unmistakable way.

    February 13, 2014 at 9:05 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Nonsense. Men have been proclaiming the end of days since roughly 40 A.D.

      February 13, 2014 at 9:10 pm |
      • lngtrmthnkr

        Rail, the tree is pretty full and the fruit is almost fully ripe. The population is at or near 7,000,000,000 souls and growing , how much more can the earth support? Nevertheless, every day can be the end for any of us. So the end is truly at the doorstep . Whether you believe or not you know this to be true, so what's the big deal about the end ? We will all die at some point.

        February 13, 2014 at 9:49 pm |
        • midwest rail

          "... so what's the big deal about the end ? We will all die at some point."
          Except that wasn't the point of the O.P., was it ? Of course the end is near for all of us individually, on a cosmic scale. But to insist that we are in the last days due to prophecy is ludicrous. Again, men have been insisting exactly that since roughly 40 A.D. They have all been wrong. So is "truth"2014.

          February 14, 2014 at 7:08 am |
      • hotairace

        And not a single prediction has come true. Eventually random chance or time (billions of year's worth) will make one of these Babble Humpers look like a hero though – for a little while, maybe just a few seconds, if that.

        Time to check in on my favorite Babble Loony, Marilyn Agee – she's always good for a laugh or two.

        February 13, 2014 at 9:57 pm |
      • truth1914

        There are so many prophecies being fulfilled in our day that it is undeniable that He is maneuvering things to bring an end to this system of things. Matthew 24:14, Revelation 11:18.

        February 13, 2014 at 9:59 pm |
        • hotairace

          List them! Or be branded a delusional liar.

          February 13, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
        • truth1914

          Jesus taught that in the last days there would be a global preaching work done by his true follower that would encompass the entire earth and the theme of that preaching would be 'The Good News Of God's Kingdom' and what that kingdom/government would do for all of faithful mankind. That specific message is being preached in over 235 lands and hundreds of languages. This is the greatest proof that we are very near to the end.

          February 13, 2014 at 10:24 pm |
        • dandintac

          Oh give me a break! People have been blathering on about the "Last Days" for the last 2000 years. Just in my lifetime, I remember the movie "The Late Great Planet Earth" in the late 70s–everyone was convinced it would be any day. In the early 80s after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, that it was a sign we were near the End Times–and bleating on about the "Gog and Magog", and that Armageddon was near, and prophecies were being fulfilled and so on, and that the anti-Christ was afoot and so on. People actually sold all their property left their jobs and went up into the mountains waiting for it to happen. Then again in the late 90s, the Y2K thing was going to do us in–that was going to be God's instrument to destroy us. Nothing happened. Then 2000–end of the Millenium. Nothing. Oh but wait! 2001 was the REAL end of the Millenium. Nothing. Then 2012 was THE real date, and it goes on and on. I'm sure a lot of scheisters make a bundle from it every time.

          What you describe is a self-fulfilling prophecy. In other words, deliberately fulfilled BECAUSE it is a prophecy. It's akin to me prophesizing that my wife will go grocery shopping tomorrow. She hears me predict this, and thinks it's a good idea. Does this make me Holy or prove anything at all, other than that my wife agrees with me that we need groceries?

          February 13, 2014 at 10:41 pm |
        • hotairace

          Well that certainly settles it! Time to go get me a Babble. . .

          February 13, 2014 at 10:32 pm |
        • truth1914

          I implore everyone to read your bible and pray for understanding. Your Heavenly Father does not want anyone to perish. John 3:16

          2 Peter 3:3-7 3 First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” 5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.

          February 14, 2014 at 3:21 am |
        • sam stone

          truth: your god is impotent

          February 14, 2014 at 7:20 am |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      Truth, yes but we don't know what he has in store in these end days. He said he will pour out his spirit and old men will dream dreams and young men will see visions . many will turn to God .

      February 13, 2014 at 9:54 pm |
      • truth1914

        Dear friend the truth about what God is doing has been unlocked in these last days (Daniel 12:4“As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.”) and there are several key events that his faithful servants are awaiting but the 'composite' sign that Jesus gave (Matthew 24) along with other prophecies (2 Timothy 3:1-5) are upon this generation.

        February 14, 2014 at 3:42 am |
    • otoh2

      truth1914,

      Ah, "Matthew". The one who said that resurrected people walked the streets of Jerusalem and were seen by **many** - and there was not One. Single. Report. about it EVER... not even by the other NT storytellers? That "Matthew"?

      February 14, 2014 at 3:32 am |
      • truth1914

        Not all of the Gospels talk about the same events because there were so many to choose from. John 20:30 & John 21:25

        And the scripture you are speaking of has a deeper understanding and if you would like I will research it and get back to you.

        February 14, 2014 at 4:06 am |
        • sam stone

          deeper understanding = more blah, blah, fvcking blah

          February 14, 2014 at 7:24 am |
        • otoh2

          @truth,

          Research it for yourself if you wish. I have done so and there is only double talk, plati.tudes,
          trust the "Lord's Word" and, as sam said, pious "blah-blah". Perhaps it is enough to satisfy you - not me, though.

          February 14, 2014 at 11:29 am |
      • kermit4jc

        DOES there have to be to make it true???? IM sure MANY things in history were recorded by only ONE person..yet we can take it...sorry...youre just trying to be desperate to discredit the Bibole

        February 14, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Hark! The ancient prophecies are being fulfilled! The End is nigh!

      "The age of evil has come to the world . Everyone steals and hoards great wealth, and sensual sin rules the day. The end of the world is at hand – yet men are hard and cruel, and listen not to the doom that is coming . No one heeds the cries of his neighbour, or lifts a hand to save."

      Just as most religions have a creation myth, so do they have an end times myth.
      The above is an ancient Norse prophecy for their End of Days, called Ragnarok.

      Christianity has a long history of prophets proclaiming the 2nd Coming and thus The End of Days, but until entomologists discover armour clad locusst with the face of main, the hair of a woman, the mouth of a lion and the tail of a scopion housing venom so potent is causes crippling pain for 5 months, I'll hedge my bets about Armageddon.

      Back in the mid 2nd century, Montanus convinced his followers that the 2nd coming would be during their lifetimes. Despite Christ's no show and the continuation of civilization, somehow the cult lasted for centuries.
      A couple of hundred years later, a North African Christian tribe known as the Donatists tried the same scam, saying everything would collapse in 380CE.
      Around the same time, St. Martin of Tours declared that the anti-Christ had already been born and was on His way to gaining power over the world.
      A mathematical Christian group called the Lotharingians were quite certain The End would be in 970CE becuase in that year, the Annunciation and Good Friday were on the same day.
      Pope Innocent III prophesied the 2nd Coming for 666 years after the rise of Islam., the year 1284.
      Archdeacon Militz of Kromeriz and an ascetic monk named Jean de Roquetaillade both said it would be around 1365CE.
      Melchior Hoffman, an Anabaptist prophet, predicted that the world would burn in 1533CE.
      The Fifth Monarchy Men, a guano insane English terrorist group, said the apocalyptic battle between Christ and Satan would happen in 1666CE.
      George Rapp said it would be September 15th, 1829.
      William Miller predicted October 22, 1844. Jesus’ failure to arrive is known as “The Great Disappointment”. Many of his disillusioned followers went on the found the 7th Day Adventist Church, who are still patiently awaiting His return.
      Charles Russell, 1st President of the Watchtower Society told his fellow Jehovah’s Witnesses that Jesus would be back in 1874.
      Rudolf Steiner maintained that from 1930 onwards, Jesus would grant certain people psychic powers to enable them to witness his presence in the “etheric plane”.
      Herbert Armstrong, Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God said 1975.
      Bill Maupin managed to convince his followers to sell all of their worldly goods in preparation for Jesus’ return on June 28th, 1981.
      Benjamin Crème stated that on June 21st, 1982 Christ would make a worldwide television announcement.
      Mark Blitz, Pastor of El Shaddai Ministries says it would be September 30th, 2008
      Jerry Falwell said it’d happen between 1999 and 2009.
      Harold Camping told everyone that the Rapture would happen May 21, 2011 after failing in his first predicted date of 1994.

      Conversely, many believe He’s all ready come in the form of Sun Myung Moon, Emanuel Swedenborg, Baha u llah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, David Koresh, Hailie Selassie, John Thom, Arnold Potter, William Davies, George roux, Ernest Norman, Krishna Venta, Ahn Sahng-Hong, Jim Jones, Mashall Applewhite, Hulon Mitchell, Wayne Bent, Ariffin Mohammed, Mitsuo Matayoshi, Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda, Inri Cristo, Thomas Provenzano, David Icke, Shoko Asahara, Hogan Fukinaga, Marina Tsvigun or Sergei Troop.

      Maybe tomorrow the 7 headed, 10 horned, bear pawed, giant amphibious Beast will emerge from the ocean, but somehow I doubt it.

      February 14, 2014 at 8:17 am |
      • truth1914

        Not everything in the bible is literal. Many of the visions in Revelations is symbolic. In most cases the bible can be used to unlock the symbolism in Revelation and other books. Just because you don't understand something does not mean you should discount it.

        February 14, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
        • otoh2

          Evangelical Rule of Thumb:

          If a Bible verse furthers the cause, it is to be taken literally.

          If a Bible verse is detrimental to the cause, it is either: taken out of context; is allegorical or metaphorical; refers to another verse somewhere else; is an ancient cultural anomaly; is a translation or copyist's error; means something other than what it actually says; is a mystery of "God" or not discernible by humans; or is just plain magic.

          February 14, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          NOT AT ALL! Ever heard of context? COntext is not merely the words on the page..but whats behind those words. Scholars who study JEWISH literature will use JEWISH philosophy, language, culture and figures of speech to determine context..among other things. Those who actually study the bIble have seen that Jewish thought has visions as SYMBOLIC.

          February 14, 2014 at 5:05 pm |
        • truth1914

          Only the sincere in heart have been given the understanding of the book of Revelation. It is a awe inspiring book that brings to a finish the will of God as it relates to his sovereignty and fully restores faithful mankind

          February 14, 2014 at 5:30 pm |
        • otoh2

          @truth1914

          "Only the sincere in heart have been given the understanding of the book of Revelation."

          Someone who doesn't see it just like you do is not "sincere in heart"? How dare you say something like that!

          Listen, Joseph Smith told his "witnesses" something quite similar - that only the "truly faithful" would be able to see his "golden plates" - it is bunk.

          February 14, 2014 at 5:51 pm |
  3. Salero21

    One more piece of Evidence and a Clear Sign that atheism/evolution and idolatry are all Total stupidity!!! 😀 😀 😀

    February 13, 2014 at 4:57 pm |
    • sam stone

      one click, salero, and you could be on your knees in front of the savior

      February 14, 2014 at 7:25 am |
      • truth1914

        Have you always been a nonbeliever?

        February 14, 2014 at 7:44 am |
        • sam stone

          i was, like many other people, taken by my mom to church

          when i was there, i found to be a load of crap

          when i got old enough that my mom let me make my choice, i stopped going

          February 14, 2014 at 8:36 am |
        • sam stone

          have you always been a believer?

          if not, what changed your mind?

          February 14, 2014 at 8:37 am |
        • truth1914

          I have always had a belief in God but for many years just like you I found what was being taught and how it was being taught a load of crap. Instead of giving up though, I researched other religions and found the truth. Now I'm part of a religion that truly follows the example of Jesus Christ, has true love for brothers in the faith and neighbor, learns 'accurate knowledge' from the scriptures, and extends themselves weekly to help others to know about God and his purpose for the earth.

          Many people have turned away from religion/God because of the falsehood in 'most' religion. Most people go to church without a clear understanding of how God is bringing his purpose to fruition because the pastor/priest/pope doesn't have a clue because God has not allowed them to understand these things because they would use it for their own selfish gain. Blind faith does not lead to salvation.

          If all religion faithfully followed the example of Jesus Christ there would be only one religion. But as the bible tells us that only few are the ones finding the 'narrow path' that is acceptable to God and his son and 'wide is the path' that lead to a disapproved state.

          February 14, 2014 at 5:15 pm |
  4. kyzaadrao

    Typical, CNN.

    The other side says the pastor didn't make 80k, it was more like 60k

    This person didn't live in poverty, he made 37k.

    Didn't work outrageous hours, he worked 45 hours a week.

    No one that knew him knew he had a crisis of faith.

    And on it goes.

    February 13, 2014 at 12:29 am |
    • justindvollmar

      I got paid only for 45 hours and was forced to "volunteer" 15 weeks a week. I worked first at $5 a hour, then my pay increased $1 a year until it reach $16 a hour when I left. Last two years, my yearly wages finally increase to comfort level but by that time I was deeply in debt.

      That pastor earned $61,400 as base salary, not counting housing allowance, income from college,and $20,000 yearly salary to his wife that don't work at church. When I left,$50k was his base salary. So I guess his salary have increased.

      February 13, 2014 at 12:07 pm |
      • genielorene

        Pleaae don't let these people drag you down Mr.Vollmar, you don't owe them any excuses and you aren't required to defend yourself against them.

        You did a brave thing and you have my respect and admiration for it. I hope things only get better and better for you and your family.

        February 14, 2014 at 10:49 am |
  5. Dyslexic doG

    It's very telling that the people who really study the bible become atheists. Anyone who really studies the bible will see that it is a fraud. a scam.

    The mass of believers are the ones who never really look at the details of the bible but imagine their religion as they want it to be and then find random bible quotes to support that view. Cognitive dissonance does the rest.

    February 12, 2014 at 9:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      It's natural for that to cause someone to reject the particular God of Abraham and the religions that have anything to do with it. Someone should invent a term for people who are atheist with regard to any gods that have been claimed so far. Personally, I don't reject the possibility of gods that haven't been involved in human history.

      February 12, 2014 at 11:51 am |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        Absolutely agree Tom,

        I equate the god claim to bigfoot, aliens, ect. I don't reject the possibility, but there just isn't enough information to accept the claims. And using the bigfoot analogy in regards to any known religious claims: what they do is claim to know the eating habits, social norms and psychological makeup of bigfoot before even demonstrating the creature exists.

        February 12, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
        • derado8

          I don't think it's the same thing exactly. One good non faked photo would end the bigfoot debate for good, so would clearing the forest. It's tangible. Aliens could go either way. If I told you my emotions were being controlled by men in another galaxy via telepathy you are never going to be able to disprove that however it sounds.

          February 12, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          You are right it is not the same, just trying to get across "non belief" is not the same as claiming "know".

          February 12, 2014 at 11:59 pm |
        • derado8

          That's a good point. The unknown unknown is the most interesting section of the Johari window.

          February 13, 2014 at 7:59 am |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      Dog, anyone can look at the old testament and see inconcistincies and it looks like a brutal God is at work, and there is brutality . It is also a brutal time in our history where if you want something you just take it by whatever means necessary. I don't particularly enjoy the old book except for Psalms and Isiah, Daniel. The new test. has more humanity and the lessons are clearer. Jesus was all about loving others and forgivness. That resonates with me more than the old test. You might say I pick and choose, that's my right, I have favorites that agree more with my perspective. The Bible has the keys within it to eternal life and happiness.

      February 12, 2014 at 5:34 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        so really, you would agree that the bible is really not THE word of your god. Am I correct?

        It's a guide book written by religious men. It's a story book.

        Hey, there may or may not be a god, but if your god is real, this book of yours really does him no favors. It is so flawed that it makes your god look bad to any logical, thinking human being who studies the book.

        February 13, 2014 at 4:34 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      THAT is a false accusation..I TRULY and HONESTLY study the Bible...and teach it to adults..yet my beliefs and faith in GOds Promises still hold true...if not stronger. Seems to me this guy didn't really study...he asks why a loving God punishes...well..why do loving parents punish? its called JUSTICE....God is not ONLY a Loving God..at same time he is a HOLY and JUST God..and sins must be dealt with...He is nOT this way cause he FEELS it..it is His very Nature!. God does not send people unwillingly intoi hell..the CHOOSE hell when they REJECT God..there is no other alternative

      February 13, 2014 at 3:13 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        and you, a person in the 21st century, can honestly read that cult-speak that you just wrote and not shake your head and think "hang on, what the heck am I doing here?!?!"? You can't look at that fantasy, fairy tale magical voodoo paragraph you just penned and think, "wait a minute, this bears no resemblance to reality, It must be just years of indoctrination making me write this stuff"?

        February 13, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          It IS reality. I know God personally...and I know you are no psychologist, so don't try to use "delusions" stuff on me...I happen to work in psychological field...and others know me and do not accuse me of being delusional. This is no fairy take..it is REAL in my life..I experience it.

          February 13, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
        • igaftr

          you do not know god personally. You may have had experiences in your life you attribute to a god, but you likley have not examined all other possibilities.
          It could be satan, your imagination, delusion, co-incidence, alien mind control, a glitch in the matrix...you see there is an infinite number of other possibilities, but since you WANT it to be god, you comfort yourself and say it IS god....you work in psychology and can't recognize self-affirming delusion?

          February 13, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          WHAT arrogance of you to think YOU can do MY thinking for me!!!! YOu think I merely took this blindly? YOU do NOT know my life..you are dishonest!! YOU were NOT part of my life to know what I PERSINALLY experienced. This isn't cause I WANTED it..this is what I have FOUND to be true...do NOT try to EVER do my thinking again!! DO your own thinking ok? thanks

          February 13, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
    • Salero21

      That's some piece of Evidence that atheism/evolutionism and idolatry are Total stupidity. Reading the Bible is one thing, believing and understanding is another. Your fallacious statement is proof unequivocal of what I've said many times. Atheists are extremely hypocritical and compulsive pathological liars. Are they children of the devil or the devil's children? The answer to that is they're probably both.

      February 13, 2014 at 5:03 pm |
  6. realityyyyyyy

    Only for the new members:

    And now the nitty-gritty of it all:

    "John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to their god to an accident of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when. Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.

    The Situation Today

    Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed." J. Somerville

    It is very disturbing that such religious violence and hatred continues unabated due to radomness of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the significant stupidity of all religions

    February 12, 2014 at 8:10 am |
  7. jstan442

    he was never saved to begin with–a person with an experience of Jesus would never lose his belief!!and God does not send ppl to hell(a place w/o God–a place of no hope,love or anything that is beautiful,compassionate etc.–a place that ppl will weep and gnash their teeth-weep becoz they did not believe-gnash their teeth coz they still have a hatred for God)ppl chose hell–God is pure and holy-He cannot let evil in heaven otherwise it would be like it is on earth where hedonism,humanism etc. reign–and why would He take ppl to heaven who do not want to be there–that would be torture!!!He is right-you are wrong

    February 11, 2014 at 11:48 pm |
    • saggyroy

      Once again the old "he was never saved to begin with" excuse. I thought for you xtians that only god knows what is in the hearts of men? "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence".

      February 12, 2014 at 5:53 am |
    • Akira

      No True Scotsman strikes again.

      February 12, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
  8. johnn23

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_F9nIps46w&w=640&h=360]

    February 11, 2014 at 10:35 pm |
  9. thefinisher1

    I don't mind that he became an atheist. He's honest with himself and others. I think for most people, you believe because you have to. Doing this actually does more harm than good. From the way I see it, many people in the U.S would classify themselves as "Christians" based on tradition alone. No human holds the power to decide your relationship with God. Only you decide. It's very normal to experience doubt. That is part of the experience. If he considers Christianity to be whatever he thinks of it now, forcing God back onto him will do more damage. His decision is his decision. I would never reject a person for being honest. I don't consider it wrong or deserves public ridicule. If someone decides to leave their faith, the amount of hate you give, contributes to the reason(s) why they are leaving. Think about that.

    February 11, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
    • JakeSeaVik

      "No human holds the power to decide your relationship with God."

      Ok, but considering we know there is no god, at least in the Christian sense, the rest of us surely should try to help the delusional see the truth, don't you think? No human holds the power to decide your relationship with the Tooth Fairy either. You can have fictional "relationships" with figments of your imagination and no one can change that. But we can try to help you.

      February 11, 2014 at 7:52 pm |
      • raforrester

        I'm not sure how how you can "help" anyone stop believing in God. You can certainly offend them. Why not just be a model of what a good atheist should be, and let people discover that your atheism makes you someone to model themselves after.

        February 11, 2014 at 11:56 pm |
        • derado8

          I don't think belief is a choice. I might think someone is fantastic but it doesn't mean I can make myself believe what they do.

          February 12, 2014 at 8:45 am |
        • raforrester

          I see your point. However, if you respect someone as a person, you are more likely to respect their beliefs. If you know someone who is a total jerk about how wrong everyone else is, you are not likely to want to find out more about their own beliefs.

          February 12, 2014 at 1:53 pm |
        • derado8

          True, I would want to protect that person's feelings and integrity. I would though wonder how they came to their conclusions.

          February 12, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
      • derado8

        Delusion is different than philosophy.

        February 12, 2014 at 8:46 am |
  10. Apple Bush

    😆
    😳

    February 11, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
  11. Apple Bush

    ;o)

    February 11, 2014 at 4:22 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      😕

      February 11, 2014 at 4:24 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        February 11, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          😈

          February 11, 2014 at 4:26 pm |
  12. agolf70

    Because of this, the early church needed to exercise care and discernment. Prophets and their prophecies must be tested. Paul exhorts, “Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thess. 5:20, 21). The Corinthian church is told, “Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge” (1 Cor. 14:29). John adds, “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God...every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God” (1 John 4:1-3).

    why would Paul, an apostle and Prophet, say "test the spirits" no old testament prophet was tested, or judged. this has to do with the change in the New Covenant. and the role of the Church.

    February 11, 2014 at 2:36 pm |
    • Akira

      Should we call you the Shia LeBouf of the BB?

      February 11, 2014 at 3:45 pm |
      • doobzz

        More like the Gary Busey of the BB.

        February 11, 2014 at 4:52 pm |
        • Akira

          *Snerk*

          February 11, 2014 at 7:18 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Austin: I ran across this article and could have sworn they were speaking about you:
      "The Effect of Religous Hypnosis & Indoctrination: Inducing the Symptoms of Religoius Schizophrenia and Paranoia (False Fear).

      Part of the problem is that models of relgious fanaticism, such as Jesus and Mohammad, display the classic symptoms of a religious type schizophrenia (hearing voices, delusions of grandeur, hallucinations, sociopathy, paranoia, believing that they have supernatural powers, etc.), thus religious fanatics model themselves on classic religious schizophrenics and consider them to be models of an ideal and godly person. This can be infectious since many of these religious schizophrenics can go on to become evangelists or Internet propagandists (which is apparent on this fourm, for example) and attempt to convince others that unless they are behaving like a religious schizophrenic, they are abnormal and destined for the eternal tortures of hell; this of course can lead to an advanced form paranoia which totally overwhelms their consciousness for the remainder of their lives.

      Archetypal Religious Paranoia

      With the religious paranoid, they are under the delusion that they being watched 24 hours a day, however this watcher is not only observing their behaviour, but is inside their mind observing and judging their every thought. Even perfectly natural thoughts, such as erotic desire, are considered to be "sinful" by the 2000 year old dead religious fanatic who lives inside their mind. Since this sadistic, jealous, genocidal Biblical deity is capable of abandoning them to hell for the least infaction, they can live their entire lives in a state of fear. Unfortunately this is infectious, and they often seek to evangelically spread their fear, often to children and those who are vulnerable to suggestion. In the world of psychiatry this disorder is considered to be the symptoms of paranoia, but on the world of religous fanaticism, this type of paranoia is encouraged and considered "normal."

      The Delusion of Exorcism and Supernatural Powers

      The Biblical fanatic is further offered the promise by his dead god (Jesus) of supernatural powers, such as curing leprosy, blindness, raising the dead, miraculoulsy answering prayers and even the power to move mountains into the sea. Of course this is a complete fantasy, just like the child who fantasises that he is "Superman" or "Spiderman." No amount of rational argument or scientific argument is usually sufficient to prove to the religious psychotic that leprosy and blindness are not caused by a person being "possessed by demons."

      As a consequence the Christian charlatans of the Jesus business who prey on the sick and the poor, offering them miracle healings are not at all considered "charlatans," since after all their dead God promised his followers such powers. Similarly they are also encouraged by the words of their dead exorcist god to emulate the exorcisms of Jesus; the consequence of this is clear in particularly the phenomenon of African Christianity where exorcising AIDs vicctims and those suffering from serious illnesses is a booming business.

      To conclude, in the context of the subject of this thread, it is unsurprising that those suffering from religious fanaticism (i.e., Religious Psychosis and Religious Schizophrenia) would consider opponents of organised religion to be "insane;" it is very common for religious schizophrenics to consider themselves to be normal, and those who will not take their "

      (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155579)

      February 11, 2014 at 4:09 pm |
  13. Frank

    Dr. Mohler said it best, "Doubt will lead to one of two inevitable consequences. Faithful doubt leads to a deeper embrace of the truth, with doubt serving to point us into a deeper knowledge, trust, and understanding of the truth. Pernicious doubt leads to unfaithfulness, unbelief, skepticism, cynicism, and despair."

    February 11, 2014 at 2:24 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Nice non-sequitor you got there.

      February 11, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
      • Frank

        That was not an argument, that was a statement.

        February 11, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          You are right, you quoted Dr. Mohler making a statement that is a non-sequitor, not an argument. Glad you picked up on that.

          February 11, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
    • snufflopagus

      Oh, no, not THEE Dr. Mohler of the baptist faith. There is a saying about ducks. I'm sure you have heard of it. In Dr.Mohlers case, he does a lot of qaucking, and I believe that the stuff he preaches is sheer quackery, but he's no duck. He is quite quackers.

      February 11, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
  14. Apple Bush

    Choice not;
    Want not.

    Listen to the man;
    Save some truth as long as you can.

    A crazy insane and delusional ruse;
    A platform built to use and abuse.

    Children chained and preached up cold;
    Dysfunctional adults as they grow old.

    A world of timeless lies and affliction;
    Religion is the world’s addiction.

    February 11, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
    • ausphor

      AB
      Trying out a new handle, charming no more, did the Bug go well and are you in between gigs.

      February 11, 2014 at 2:24 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Yes, it went great! Thanks for asking. I am looking for my next project now....how are you?

        February 11, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • ausphor

          AB
          A little deranged, I have used aus from Austin and pher from Topher so I can post as a psychotic fundie, should be fun. Hope you get a new project soon, I watch the market and clip coupons boring but stable.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          I was gonna ask you how you came up with that name lol!

          February 11, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
  15. Miss_EH

    Disappointing, but entirely unsurprising, is that he has received "hundreds of negative comments and e-mails from Christians". Watching one of their own leave the flock is perceived as nothing less than a threat since it challenges their own views, and people react all too predictably to threats. Welcome to the world of reason and rationality, Mr. Vollmar, you've got new vistas and open roads ahead.

    February 11, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      I like this post and you are right, living out in reality without his rain slicker will reveal new vistas.

      February 11, 2014 at 2:12 pm |
  16. Ungodly Discipline

    The Pope drops a hand grenade into a sea of Catholics and then watches their dead bodies float to the surface. A sturdy net gathers in today’s catch and dinner is assured. Once we have the wine (both a red and a white) we can eat. A good chef can cook on a hot plate.

    The gravy is red and viscous with a sickening sweet aroma that arouses the Pope and his cronies. Mouths watering at the ready, the meal is prepared and the nightly feast of the masses can begin, but first a prayer.

    February 11, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      The Sea of Catholics. One they missed in the Yellow Submarine.

      February 11, 2014 at 2:02 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Hey pay attention...one of these days you may have to cook for 50 guys....

        February 11, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • ausphor

          AB
          Needles to say that was the Godfather not the really really real God or are they one and the same?

          February 11, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
        • ausphor

          "Needless" but both could work, where is Dippy?

          February 11, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Man, I always thought the GF and God were the same person. Did you catch my Goodfellas wink?

          February 11, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
        • ausphor

          AB
          Forget about it.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Welcome to the disturbing memories of one pope, he of the triple chin and the great gatherer of people in the light of the spirit. He who dreams of fire and damnation yet smiles a happy smile and embraces the physically deformed with his own special brand of charisma and caring.

      Touch his robes and cry into them, soiling them with the true nature of your heart and begging for forgiveness from he who cannot be flawed. Do this with all of your being and say unto yourself save me Lord. Help me Franny.

      Do not however touch the tip of the tip top of his pointy tip top hat or ask to bum a cigarette from the Pope. Even a bar bouncer frowns on such behavior and the confessional can be used for many things.

      If the Pope gives you a smoke, everyone has to get one.

      February 11, 2014 at 2:10 pm |
  17. Apple Bush

    There is a thing neither dark nor light;

    The nothing;

    The beginning and the end;

    This is your womb and your tomb;

    Both small and large;

    Both kind and evil;

    This is the reality you search for but will never find;

    For the nothing does not exist;

    And yet it is all that exists

    February 11, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Strangely, many have mistaken the soul "entering" the body with that of the soul "leaving" the body. Ensoulment takes place at death when you are made into a god part. You see, God is a collective. Many soulganisms are entwined to create a powerful deity.

      February 11, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
  18. revrickm

    Very similar to my story too. I was a devout Southern Baptist. The more I studied the Bible the less I trusted it to be the inerrant word of God, and in fact it revealed itself as a very "human" book, full of contradictions and human fabrications. While I still believe in "God", God is not the schizophrenic, anger-ridden monster that is described in the Bible. I still believe that Jesus was real, and that he tried to impart some wisdom regarding love and compassion for our fellow human beings, but the New Testament doesn't teach what Jesus taught, it teaches what others made-up about Jesus. What Jesus actually taught we will never know for sure.

    February 11, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
  19. agolf70

    In Santa We Trust

    "The way to convince would be to publicly state the specifics – who, what, and when. Then if they come true – others can evaluate objectively."

    went to the bookstore after my friends funeral on Jan 2 and the clerk I had not seen for 13 years. I asked her how her twin sister was because I used to hang out with them and my neighbor . we were friends .

    and she said "she died of a drug over dose", and just then my ex girl friend mother walked up and she didn't recognize me, and overhearing she said "oh i have a twin sister that died too" and then she recognized me. so here were the 3 of us, with dead best friends.

    ok, i went home, and 2 years ago, from when i was in jail and had the 10 or so visions there, and i pulled out a dream that talked about a blond woman who died of a drug over dose, and in the SAME dream, it started talking about my ex girlfriends mom.

    now i wrote that down two years ago, and the crime and overdose happened just this last christmas. so 2 years before the girl died, i had the dream.

    i had not seen my ex girlfriends mom for 5 years, and i don't have any other dreams with her in it written down.

    I have all ready been telling you about my visions for a year now, and no this is another powerful example.

    Thanks for listening, I am not lying to you . I have prophetic visions.

    February 11, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
    • agolf70

      only God knows is sovereign,and only God could give me the vision,and then actually put the 3 of us, in the same place.

      my , the sister of the girl who overdosed, and my ex girl friends mother. at a book store that i went to spontaneously.

      February 11, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
    • Alias

      No, you have an active imagination and a desire to believe.
      A dream about a drug user overdosing that took years to come true is not convincing.

      Care to share any recent dreams?

      February 11, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
      • agolf70

        alias, you knocked off half of the miracle. that the dream had my ex girl friends mother in the SAME, dream, and that there are no other dreams about my ex's mother,and that the next time i saw my ex's mom, after 5 years of not seeing her, there was a girl with a sister who overdosed (with blond hair)

        the chances of this happening are 0.01%

        get real!

        February 11, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • Pete

          "the chances of this happening are 0.01%"

          That is not true. That number is the small percentage of all the dreams you have had in the last 5 years that might have come true. That means your other hundres of dreams are not coming true and you are a fraud. Again 20% of people on this planet have dreams that come true whether they believe in a god or not, this has to do with our brains and not the supernatural.

          February 11, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • agolf70

          Pete, no ones brain is going to spontaneously put complex parts of the future together, involving the complexity that I have experienced. I can tell you with my own authority what I have experienced. you cant tell me what i have experienced, and you really cant tell me what any one else has experienced.

          Again, the new testament clearly portrays the spiritual gift that I speak of , and I can confirm it through my personal experience.. you can bring up different scenarios as conjecture, but you don't know what i have experiecned.

          I have had revelation about scripture that i was going to read the next day that i was not familiar with. I have had thoughts go in one ear, and out the mouth of someone else through their dream that same night.

          for example this dude woke up and came up to me and said " i just had a dream that i was walking around and looking to see if they had had a special light in their eye to see if they were possessed" when i had just asked the same question to myself "do they have the light in their eye" before i went to sleep.

          that is a spirit translating my thoughts into someone elses dream. and that is why there are interpreters. that guy was the conduit,and his dream was meant for me., and brought to me to reveal spiritual interaction.

          That is the way it works. i have experienced it, and regardless of what else takes place in the world, i have experienced
          SPIRITUAL REVELATION now 30 times.

          not once, but 30. I have PROOF, pete

          February 11, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
        • Pete

          "I have experienced. you cant tell me what i have experienced, and you really cant tell me what any one else has experienced. "

          Yes, I can people cause they have also written down their dreams that have come true regardless if they believe in a god or not. That's the point. You might have had 30 dreams come true in 8 years but you are forgetting the 2000+ that didn't. Having a dream come true is not proof of a god or the supernatural since those that don't believe in your god or any god, have had similar experiences.

          February 11, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
        • Pete

          I wish there was an edit button, I typed too fast again. LOL!

          February 11, 2014 at 3:36 pm |
        • dandintac

          Agolf,

          First of all, improbable things DO happen. A bolt of lightning struck three trees along a road outside our office, each spread 2-3 trees apart, so it was multiple lightning strikes, all along the road there. What are the chances of that happening? Highly improbable–but certainly POSSIBLE, and that makes all the difference.

          Second, the human subconscious mind can often connect the dots in ways our consciousness cannot. I had a dream when I was a kid of a tornado–it was terrible, and we got buried under rubble. This was in 1974 in Dayton Ohio. The very next day, I found out the Xenia tornado had struck. The pictures on the news looked just like my dream. A few days, or perhaps a couple of weeks later, we drove through. The rubble–just like my dream. Now is this miraculous? Of course not. It was a bad tornado season, the "Super-Outbreak", tornadoes were in the news constantly. The rubble? I'd seen rubble before. Furthermore, as we awake, our minds sometimes fill in the blanks of our dream as we regain consciousness.

          You probably had heard something, but not remembered it consciously, and put the pieces together in your dream.

          Finally, even if you accurately and unaccountably predicted the future with your dreams, this is no evidence for the existence of any sort of god.

          Thanks

          February 12, 2014 at 10:42 pm |
        • raforrester

          As I said to Pete below,not proof of God, just proof of weirdness in the universe. The question is what do you do with that knowledge.

          February 13, 2014 at 1:30 am |
        • sam stone

          austin: you continue to blather on that you have proof, prove it

          james randi is waiting

          February 13, 2014 at 4:25 am |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      The "visions" are known as "dreams" and we all have them every night rather we write them down or not. Gosh, imagine all of the "prophecies" I have forgotten!! LOL

      February 11, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
      • agolf70

        hey listen to the content. i had not seen my ex girlfriens mother for 5 years. and have no other dreams about her. and then when i did see her, it was immediately after the girl told me about her sister over dosing and dying.

        that is exactly like the dream i had 2 years ago.

        that is a complicated, non coincodental , proof of sovereign capability insight and communication, and by the way i have 30 plus other expamples of this.

        you have no chance of defeating my argument. zero % chance of defeating my argument.

        February 11, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • Pete

          So what I had a dream about my future wife and two years later I met her and married her and I don't believe in a god. My neighbor shortly after that gave me a book about a state that I had a dream that I would live in and that came true too. That is not proof of a god but how our brains work. Stopy lying to try and sell your god.

          February 11, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • raforrester

          Pete, you're right that it is not proof of a God. However your own dream is proof that there is something odd about the universe. A few years ago I had a series of dreams over a span of several years, always the same dream, in which a rather ordinary series of events happened, except each time I had the dream I had a stronger and stronger sense of deja vu. Then that exact sequence of events happened to me, and the deja vu was incredibly powerful. I just stood there for about 30 seconds watching the whole thing play out, knowing exactly what would happen next.

          Not proof of God, just proof of weirdness in the universe. The question is what do you do with that knowledge.

          February 12, 2014 at 12:08 am |
        • sam stone

          Of course there is no chance of defeating your argument, Austin, you are delusional and do not respond to reason

          February 13, 2014 at 4:30 am |
      • Ungodly Discipline

        You have no proof. There is no such thing as a "prophet". There, defeated.

        February 11, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • agolf70

          google
          major prophet
          minor prophet
          there are a bunch of them.

          and prophecy in the new testament time of the church, is unlike the authority of the old testament prophets who had direct revelation that was authoritative..

          February 11, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          My bad....there is no such thing as telling the future is what I meant. Hence you can CALL them a prophet, but they are not because those that claim to be a prophet are liars.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:34 pm |
    • snufflopagus

      Now I know that the coo-coo bird has flow the nest, Austin/agolf. If you are, indeed, a prophet, why haven't you pulled another out of your, erm, hat, and told the world of its very immanent demise? Any day now, right? This century, or next? How about the next snowfall? That should be EASY for a "real" prophet.

      February 11, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
      • agolf70

        i don't make predictions. and these visions, aren't supposed to be for non believers. it says they are for the edification of the church. and the church i go to shuns what i am talking about too.

        i am supposed to have someone with the gift of interpretation.

        so really, it isn't even right for me to translate my visions to non believers, but after the fact, after they have come true, in hindsight , i can tell you with no doubt, that the spirit is alive,and that you should heed the word of God.

        February 11, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
        • Alias

          You just lost all credibility.
          Go back to interpreting your visions for yourself, but only a fool would follow you into a religion for it.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:00 pm |
        • agolf70

          1 Corinthians 14 (New King James Version)
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          1 Corinthians 14

          New King James Version (NKJV)
          Prophecy and Tongues

          14 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for[a] he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

          alias, my conviction and statements comes form my submission to the word of God. it specifically sates what you did, that you SHOULD NOT FOLLOW ME. that you should seek the Holy Spirit who bears the truth. I don't bear the truth on your heart. The holy spirit, promises to do that supernaturally. why settle for my testimony.

          I am only giving my testimony and acknowledging my true experience of spiritual revealing reality.

          John the Baptist performed miracles!

          6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:13 pm |
    • doobzz

      That's almost as impressive as the time I said that Amy Winehouse wouldn't live to see her 30th birthday and it came true! I wasn't dreaming either.

      February 11, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
    • igaftr

      austin
      " have prophetic visions." And delusions of granduer. But lets for a moment say that is true.

      How do you go from that to god?
      It could be satan.
      It could be you have an as yet unknown human ability.
      You could have a mental defect and remember things incorrectly, in which your memory of dreams intermingles with your memory of reality, making your memory untrustworthy.
      It could be alien mind control.
      It could be a little psychic gnome that lives under your bed
      It could be you are lying.
      I can go on all day.

      How do you go from "visions" to attributing it to your version of god? There is no link there.

      February 11, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
      • Alias

        you forgot to mention the possible influence of the drugs.

        February 11, 2014 at 1:58 pm |
        • agolf70

          what drugs was i on when i woke up and wrote a dream down? none. if i smoke pot, i don't have dreams. i have not had a drink in 2 years,and i am drug free.

          besides, noah got drunk, and there are many examples of drunkeness in the bible. Joseph was born as his mother used narcotic mandrake to enhance fertility. Moses, David, Paul, guilty of murder.

          Jesus came from the line of Tamar, who was incestually impregnated by Judah
          God uses sinners. He saves sinners.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:05 pm |
      • agolf70

        it could be from aliens if they are interdimensional. but why would they further the bible as a medium.

        they could be from Satan. Satan goes back and forth between heaven and earth, and he makes deals with God. ...(book of JOB)
        and they could be from angels, or the Holy Spirit.

        my dreams have at times 100%revealed demonic manifestation, and on the contrary they have been word of knowledge many times, and they have been visions about what i was about to read in the bible. and they have been parables that were about trials i was praying about. in all , many of them personally sanctified me and exhorted me in the word of God.

        I believe that this is full proof and credence to what it says in 1 Cor, "test the spirit" "hold on to what is good" I am experiencing what is talked about in Corinthians ch 12, and with the demonic revelations, this all supports the word of God. and the bible has definately been the source of my passion and the medium/ the reason that this has come my direction.

        February 11, 2014 at 2:03 pm |
        • igaftr

          So in other words, you want it to god, so you claim it is god with no reason at all.Sure you could find a passage in the bible you can use to convince yourself, but you still don't know if there were any gods involved with creating the bible.

          Yours is a very refined delusion. You can't see other possibilities no matter how plainly someone spells it out for you. I have seen similar situations with recovering addicts, who give up substance addictions for religious ones.

          I have said it before, and in all seriousness I will say it again.
          Seek competent non-religious professional mental help. You seriously need it, and if you are OK, it will only further your beliefs...nothing to lose.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
        • agolf70

          igaftr, you are the one who says satan wrote the bible and you speak metaphorically. I would never do that.

          the spiritual gift is one that has to be sifted through and tested. old testament prophets were infallible . the new testament gift is different, and Paul reveals this in scripture.

          Because of this, the early church needed to exercise care and discernment. Prophets and their prophecies must be tested. Paul exhorts, “Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thess. 5:20, 21). The Corinthian church is told, “Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge” (1 Cor. 14:29). John adds, “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God...every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God” (1 John 4:1-3).

          these passages show us tha NT prophecy is not claimed with the authority from God that old testament prophecy was. The manifestation of the gift is not authoritative, and need to be "sifted and tested" it is thus a fallible experience.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
        • igaftr

          "it could be from aliens if they are interdimensional. but why would they further the bible as a medium."

          Maybe they wrote it in the first place, and are checking on the progress of it through you.
          Who knows....humans don't think the way aliens do.
          You will be able to verify if it is aliens though.

          Take a sheet of aluminium and form it into a shelid for your brain, like in the form of a hat. It must be pointy with a part of it running down the nose to the tip...this is very important. You MUST wear this aluminium until you have another "prophetic vision" or until the aliens come down to try to determine why the signal can't get through.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:41 pm |
  20. Alias

    This is a typical story for people who think rationally about their faith.
    People who accept the bible as true when studying it can rationalize almost anything, but those who think objectively find logical errors in the scripture.
    After accepting that the bible has flaws, it all falls apart.

    February 11, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
    • agolf70

      the bible is God using fallible people, and the stories about their mistakes. to reveal the concept of sin.

      I think that He has given us the truth, and redeemed His creation. that is not a threat to me.

      and i have experienced what it says. I have not seen God, but I have experienced the Holy Spirit. and I had my doubts, but the Holy Spirit revealed His presence and truth. I could never say that the experience is subjective either.

      The Holy spirit has given me a concrete faith. through experience.

      John 15:26-27

      The Work of the Holy Spirit

      26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

      in other words, the holy spirit testifies about the truth of His presence

      its good if you want to experience what you have not yet experienced, but if you say "screw that what a lie"

      that is simply because your heart is wicked and deceitful, and naturally spiritually dead. at enmity with God.

      you should want to experience the Holy Spirit, if you are honest and open minded.

      February 11, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
      • Alias

        People who think we have been visited by aliens see UFOs in every light in the sky.
        People who really want to see god will bellieve that their dreams were visions.
        If this didn't happen to people of every other faith it would be convincing.

        February 11, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • agolf70

          the reason that does not matter what you say , is because there are prophets, and false prophets. Satan has always been a miraculous rival in the supernatural realm.

          the fact that there are prophetic visions all across the board, does not do any discredit to God the father of all things spiritual.

          the occult full of satanic wonders. I have experienced Satanic wonders, such as the cat dream.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • Alias

          So you're a prophet, and anyone who doesn't believe what you say (even though it sounds like a fantasy) is under the spell of Satan. How original.
          I'm sure we are all convinced now.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:19 pm |
        • agolf70

          we are all born spiritually blind. I am not a prophet. I have a spiritual gift. no one is under a spell. there is a battle for truth in you mind. but the power over death has already been resurrected. The battle has been won. You are justified through the name and the blood of Christ.
          5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same[b] Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

          February 11, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.