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How evangelicals won a war and lost a generation
Are church teachings on homosexuality driving millennials away from faith?
March 31st, 2014
02:18 PM ET

How evangelicals won a war and lost a generation

Opinion by Rachel Held Evans, special to CNN

(CNN) - On March 24, World Vision announced that the U.S. branch of the popular humanitarian organization would no longer discriminate against employees in same-sex marriages.

It was a decision that surprised many but one that made sense, given the organization’s ecumenical nature.

But on March 26, World Vision President Richard Stearns reversed the decision, stating, “our board acknowledged that the policy change we made was a mistake.”

Supporters helped the aid group “see that with more clarity,” Stearns added, “and we’re asking you to forgive us for that mistake.”

So what happened within those 48 hours to cause such a sudden reversal?

The Evangelical Machine kicked into gear.

Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said the decision pointed to “disaster,” and the Assemblies of God denomination encouraged its members to pull their financial support from the organization.

Evangelicals took to Twitter and Facebook to threaten to stop sending money to their sponsored children unless World Vision reversed course.

Within a day of the initial announcement, more than 2,000 children sponsored by World Vision lost their financial support. And with more and more individuals, churches and organizations threatening to do the same, the charity stood to lose millions of dollars in aid that would otherwise reach the poor, sick, hungry and displaced people World Vision serves.

So World Vision reversed course.

Stearns told The New York Times that some people, satisfied with the reversal, have called World Vision headquarters to ask, “Can I have my child back?” as though needy children are expendable bargaining chips in the culture war against gay and lesbian people.

Many of us who grew up evangelical watched with horror as these events unfolded.

As a longtime supporter of World Vision, I encouraged readers of my blog to pick up some of the dropped sponsorships after the initial decision. I then felt betrayed when World Vision backtracked, though I urged my readers not to play the same game but to keep supporting their sponsored children, who are of course at no fault in any of this.

But most of all, the situation put into stark, unsettling relief just how misaligned evangelical priorities have become.

When Christians declare that they would rather withhold aid from people who need it than serve alongside gays and lesbians helping to provide that aid, something is wrong.

There is a disproportionate focus on homosexuality that consistently dehumanizes, stigmatizes and marginalizes gay and lesbian people and, at least in this case, prioritizes the culture war against them over and against the important work of caring for the poor.

Evangelicals insist that they are simply fighting to preserve “biblical marriage,” but if this were actually about “biblical marriage,” then we would also be discussing the charity’s policy around divorce.

But we’re not.

Furthermore, Scripture itself teaches that when we clothe and feed those in need, we clothe and feed Christ himself, and when we withhold care from those in need, we withhold it from Christ himself (Matthew 25:31-46).

Why are the few passages about homosexuality accepted uncritically, without regard to context or culture, but the many about poverty so easily discarded?

As I grieved with my (mostly 20- and 30-something) readers over this ugly and embarrassing situation, I heard a similar refrain over and over again: “I don’t think I’m an evangelical anymore. I want to follow Jesus, but I can’t be a part of this.”

I feel the same way.

Whether it’s over the denial of evolutionary science, continued opposition to gender equality in the church, an unhealthy alliance between religion and politics or the obsession with opposing gay marriage, evangelicalism is losing a generation to the culture wars.

A recent survey from Public Religion Research Institute revealed that nearly one-third of millennials who left their childhood faith did so because of “negative teachings” or “negative treatment” of gay and lesbian people.

Christians can disagree about what the Bible says (or doesn’t say) about same-sex marriage. This is not an issue of orthodoxy. But when we begin using child sponsorships as bargaining tools in our debates, we’ve lost the way of Jesus.

So my question for those evangelicals is this: Is it worth it?

Is a “victory” against gay marriage really worth leaving thousands of needy children without financial support?

Is a “victory” against gay marriage worth losing more young people to cynicism regarding the church?

Is a “victory” against gay marriage worth perpetuating the idea that evangelical Christians are at war with LGBT people?

And is a “victory” against gay marriage worth drowning out that quiet but persistent internal voice that asks, "what if we get this wrong?"

I, for one, am tired of arguing. I’m tired of trying to defend evangelicalism when its leaders behave indefensibly.

I’m going AWOL on evangelicalism's culture wars so I can get back to following Jesus among its many refugees: LGBT people, women called to ministry, artists, science-lovers, misfits, sinners, doubters, thinkers and “the least of these.”

I’m ready to stop waging war and start washing feet.

Rachel Held Evans is the author of "Evolving in Monkey Town" and "A Year of Biblical Womanhood." She blogs at rachelheldevans.com. The views expressed in this column belong to Rachel Held Evans.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • Christianity • Culture wars • Discrimination • Ethics • evangelicals • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Homosexuality • Opinion • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (2,141 Responses)
  1. kybdprof

    Ms. Evans:

    Extremely well stated. I agree totally and am tired of individuals bringing shame on the church by their radical leanings which are seldom based on the true teachings of the Christ, whose name they claim. I am confident that, were Jesus with us in the flesh, many of these folks would be surprised at the choices he might make in these situations. Thanks for clearly stating a view that is not heard enough.

    April 11, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
  2. alkihawksfan

    What did Jesus say about who we should believe in? John 12:44 states that "Jesus cried and said, he that believes in me, does not believe in me, but in him that sent me."

    April 9, 2014 at 3:11 pm |
    • handyetc

      44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. NIV

      44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. NKJV

      You need the entire piece of scripture to see that Jesus is saying that you can't just believe in him as he physically existed. You must believe in the Father that sent him. John 10:30 Jesus says, "I and the Father are one."

      April 10, 2014 at 10:08 am |
  3. David Lloyd-Jones

    Reblogged this on davidlloydjones.

    April 8, 2014 at 8:52 pm |
  4. frankbeattys

    When you cause Christians to lose, what have you won? Eternal damnation. They were trying to save your soul and they lost.

    April 6, 2014 at 9:38 pm |
    • Bob

      Sounds like your nasty sky fairy being an excessively vengeant ass hole again, frank. So, no thanks, you can keep your sicko Christian tall tales to yourself. Silently, that is.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      April 6, 2014 at 9:51 pm |
      • likkerdysplit

        God forbid, i'll stand on the rock where Moses stood and sing God's praises til' they throw me down.
        Kill me if you can Bob, but what I got mortal man can't take away, this is permanent.

        April 7, 2014 at 4:15 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          No but anti-psychotic meds will help ease the delusions!

          April 7, 2014 at 5:02 am |
        • doobzz

          No evidence that Moses ever existed. No evidence that the Jews were ever in Egypt, much less slaves. No evidence of a mass migration of people out of Egypt across the Sinai Peninsula.

          April 7, 2014 at 11:52 am |
        • awrozzell

          maybe your serial killer god will drown you next, and your children, oh wait I bet he killed the first born already

          April 8, 2014 at 7:58 am |
        • justpointingthisout

          Matthew 23:12

          For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

          April 9, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • likkerdysplit

          I exalt not my own name but the Holy Spirit of God...
          Nothing in this world is permanent, but my Salvation IS, praise God.

          April 26, 2014 at 4:34 pm |
        • Hecate

          Well spit on me and tell me it's rainin, ma! Likkerdysplit has spoken!

          April 9, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
    • srogue2

      What the author of this article fails to think about is that what she is proposing is blackmail. We, as Christians must tolerate whatever kind of trendy sin the culture is currently pushing, in this case gay "marriage." And if we don't and we stop supporting World Vision, we are heartless misguided, haters.

      What she also fails to see is that there are other organizations that still take the God's Word seriously, and do the same work as World Vision. I give to such and organization so I don't have to deal with this debacle. However, stop acting like if someone were to pull their support from WV, that there is no other outlet for their giving to help the needy.

      April 7, 2014 at 4:01 am |
      • TruthPrevails1

        Oh my, gay marriage is not anything that harms anyone!! Read some updated info and stop the bigotry. Your ilk is on the losing end here and I'm not certain how you fail to see that.

        April 7, 2014 at 5:07 am |
      • myweightinwords

        And the godly donors who refused to feed children until the organization changed its stance weren't blackmailing?

        Didn't Jesus himself say that what you do to the least of the children, you've done to him? Congratulations, you let your savior starve to death just to keep a gay couple from getting health insurance. Good on you.

        April 7, 2014 at 9:39 am |
        • handyetc

          The problem that occurs here is that you can't pick and choose what parts of the Bible that you are going to follow and ignore the parts that you do not like. The people that decided to pull their donations had every right not to support an organization that did not align with their faith (even if that organization supports children). If they feel strongly in that support then they should find another organization that does align with their beliefs. What this author and you attempt to do in forcing Christians to choose based on which ground you perceive as more moral is incompatable with Jesus' teachings that no sin committed holds greater weight with the Father than any other sin. So, if you are going to try to use the Bible against Christians then your argument should be the Bible is a lie in what it says about gay marriage and you also don't need to worry about sending money to help starving children because Jesus didn't care about them either. We don't get to pick and choose.

          April 8, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • myweightinwords

          The problem that occurs here is that you can’t pick and choose what parts of the Bible that you are going to follow and ignore the parts that you do not like.

          That's what a lot of us who don't follow the bible at all keep telling those of you that you do. But then, anyone who followed every single command given in the bible would end up in prison.

          The people that decided to pull their donations had every right not to support an organization that did not align with their faith (even if that organization supports children).

          I never said they didn't have that right. I simply pointed out that what they did amounted to blackmail.

          If they feel strongly in that support then they should find another organization that does align with their beliefs.

          Not arguing that point. Still doesn't change the fact that what they did was blackmail. All the more proven by the fact that when they got their way they came back wanting to have their same kids as before.

          What this author and you attempt to do in forcing Christians to choose based on which ground you perceive as more moral is incompatable with Jesus’ teachings that no sin committed holds greater weight with the Father than any other sin.

          Where am I forcing anyone to do anything? I made a simple statement. These "Christians" used poor and starving children as leverage to get their way. They are the ones making the point that clearly "being gay" counts more than "love your neighbor", not me.

          So, if you are going to try to use the Bible against Christians then your argument should be the Bible is a lie in what it says about gay marriage and you also don’t need to worry about sending money to help starving children because Jesus didn’t care about them either.

          Well that would be silly. The bible clearly indicates that Jesus did care about the children. And the bible says absolutely nothing about same gender marriage. So why would anyone argue about either of those things?

          We don’t get to pick and choose.

          Except for how you do. Every single Christian I've ever met does.

          April 8, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
      • David Lloyd-Jones

        And here I thought it was "better to marry than to burn."

        Silly me.

        -dlj.

        April 8, 2014 at 8:57 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      No such thing as eternal damnation, no soul either. Your ilk treat people worse due to the divisiveness you create than most other groups (outside of muslims). If hell exists, it will be your ilk going there, not anyone us...we're not the ones judging when apparently judging is a sin (not that sin exists outside of your bible)!!

      April 7, 2014 at 5:10 am |
      • frankbeattys

        Eternal damnation, soul, hell, heaven, Jesus, and Satan all exist. You have been deceived.

        April 7, 2014 at 11:36 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Frank: Cite your evidence without using the bible!

          April 7, 2014 at 11:41 am |
        • frankbeattys

          TruthPrevails1,

          My source = God.

          April 7, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
        • awrozzell

          your god made you so you could roast in hell, well let me get some napkins and BBQ sauce your gonna taste nasty I am sure.

          April 8, 2014 at 8:00 am |
  5. geodude11

    Intelligence and rational thought will prevail in America. No, the wacko's listening to comic books and the Candy Man will not rule the show. Science is proof, fantasy folks have nothing but hearsay and boogie man stories.

    April 4, 2014 at 4:39 pm |
    • frankbeattys

      "In a survey of 1,044 doctors nationwide, 76 percent said they believe in God, 59 percent said they believe in some
      sort of afterlife, and 55 percent said their religious beliefs influence how they practice medicine." - NBC News

      April 6, 2014 at 9:41 pm |
      • doobzz

        "But while medicine is science-based, doctors differ from scientists who work primarily in a laboratory setting, and their direct contact with patients in life-and-death situations may explain the differing views, Curlin said.

        The study is based on responses to questionnaires mailed in 2003."

        So, not particularly current. Let's hope they kept more up to date with medical progress.

        April 7, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
        • frankbeattys

          What do you mean " kept more up to date"?

          You make it sound like science proved God doesn't exist.

          April 12, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
        • doobzz

          Please show me where I said anything of the kind.

          April 12, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
    • srogue2

      You are right, in the end, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. All the comic book sci-fi of evolution and dead end of humanism will indeed pass away.

      April 7, 2014 at 4:03 am |
  6. His Panic

    OMG OMG A Nun is "Moderating my comments. I cant type Hys.te.ria here!! Or it could be a priest from the Vatican, in which case I even I may well be his Panic. Those who really, really Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son WILL NOT Panic All others will Panic and get into brawls, riots and stampedes. There were riots the other day in some colleges, some idolaters/drunkards went into a State of Ma.ss Hys.te.ria about loosing a game. They're losers!!

    However those who really, really, for Real and do not fake it but really Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son WILL NOT Panic neither get involved into drunken brawls, anarchic riots or Panic driven stampedes. All others WILL indeed Panic!!

    April 4, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
    • Akira

      2x.
      Trust in Our Lord Jesus Christ to tell you not to panic, and not to use the emoticons that are putting your posts under moderation automatically.

      April 4, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
  7. Stephanie Scott

    I never much liked the What Would Jesus Do? fad because in most cases, we are just guessing. Do I know whether Jesus would vote for the new health care bill? No, I don't. But I do know a few things Jesus did. He fed people. He cared for the sick, wounded, maligned, no matter who they were. I can't recall a story where Jesus visited a town, went straight to the religious leaders to hold a council on who deserved help in the town and who didn't. I don't recall him making choices out of spite to hurt people to prove a point. I think anger over factors outside of people's control has clouded their vision to what really matters about the gospel. I also fear an entire generation is lost. I know I'm tired of fighting hate and bigotry done in the name of Jesus.

    April 4, 2014 at 12:07 pm |
    • observer

      Keep on practicing the Golden Rule.

      April 4, 2014 at 4:43 pm |
      • likkerdysplit

        The golden rule?
        'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'?
        Brother if I ever find myself in sin I pray to the Good Lord that He will shine His Grace on me and send a prophet to convict me as to that sin.
        What friend of mine is a man who would let me sink in sin? To drown and die and face the Judgment fires.
        That 'friend' must truly hate me, to silence his tongue on his own accord, that he'd prefer the exaltation of the world to that of the Spirit of God.

        April 6, 2014 at 5:45 am |
        • sam stone

          judgement is a hoax

          April 6, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • hotairace

          Christianity and all alleged but never proven god-based beliefs are likely to be hoaxes, to be polite, or 100% pure bullsh!t to be more plain spoken.

          April 6, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
        • Hecate

          Well, bust my britches and grab the hog, ma! We're going to a hootenanny!

          April 9, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
    • ljm83

      we also know that Jesus told us to "go and sin no more"!

      April 6, 2014 at 8:10 pm |
  8. lookatuniverse

    Quran says (Islamic Scripture)

    “The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.” Quran [3:59]

    “It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.” [19:35]

    “No soul can carry the sins of another soul. If a soul that is loaded with sins implores another to bear part of its load, no other soul can carry any part of it, even if they were related. ... [35:18]

    “They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims.” Quran [6:100]

    “Recall that your Lord said to the angels, "I am placing a representative on Earth." They said, "Will You place therein one who will spread evil therein and shed blood, while we sing Your praises, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?" He said, "I know what you do not know." [2:30]

    “They say , "We live only this life; we will not be resurrected. If you could only see them when they stand before their Lord! He would say, "Is this not the truth?" They would say, "Yes, by our Lord." He would say, "You have incurred the retribution by your disbelief." [6:30]

    “We have honored the children of Adam, and provided them with rides on land and in the sea. We provided for them good provisions, and we gave them greater advantages than many of our creatures.” Quran [17:70]

    “O children of Adam, when messengers come to you from among you, and recite My revelations to you, those who take heed and lead a righteous life, will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.” Quran [7:35]

    “O children of Adam, do not let the devil dupe you as he did when he caused the eviction of your parents from Paradise, and the removal of their garments to expose their bodies. He and his tribe see you, while you do not see them. We appoint the devils as companions of those who do not believe.” Quran [7:27]

    “Losers indeed are those who disbelieve in meeting God, until the Hour comes to them suddenly, then say, "We deeply regret wasting our lives in this world." They will carry loads of their sins on their backs; what a miserable load! [6:31]

    Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to visit whyIslam org website.

    April 4, 2014 at 8:54 am |
    • rogerthat2014

      Here's a good read for you: God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
      by Christopher Hitchens

      April 4, 2014 at 11:58 am |
    • hotairace

      Do you have any actual evidence for the existence of your alleged god(s)? If yes, I'd be very interested to learn about it as it would be the first. If not, why do believe the things you do? Are you pretending to know things you do not?

      April 4, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
    • Reality

      o Once again we come to save "lookatuniverse" and the other 1.5 billion lost Muslims from their Three B Syndrome, i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Islam but this time reducing the Five Step Program for Deprogramming Islam to One Step in order to by-pass most of the language barrier:

      Gabriel never existed!!!!!! No Gabriel, no communiques from heaven and therefore Islam has no foundation!!!

      And from Google Translate:

      غابرييل لم تكن موجودة!!!!!! لا غابرييل، لا بالبيانات من السماء، وبالتالي لا يوجد لديه أساس الإسلام

      April 4, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
    • awrozzell

      Religion, the greatest CON job ever, those who spread this virus should be sterilized as to no longer infect the rest of us.

      April 8, 2014 at 8:02 am |
  9. Bob

    Vic, regarding this idiotic Jesus stuff that you keep harping about, the whole Jesus-sacrifice thing is rubbish. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there. The foundation of your whole religion is complete nonsense.

    Not only that, but your folklore contains some pretty horrid instructions purportedly from your murderous sky fairy such as these, just to cite a few. From both foul testaments, and note the text after the quotes:

    Numbers 31:17-18
    17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
    18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

    Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    Leviticus 25
    44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
    45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
    46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

    Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

    Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

    And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

    So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

    And further, ask yourself why we should have to rely on very stale, thousands-of-years-old, many-versioned old text, that is only reasonably subject to debates over its meaning. Why is it that your pathetic sky fairy can't even get with the past decade and create his own web presence (no, religious shill sites don't count), or push some tweets out? Even the pope, that creepy hider of criminal priests, could do that much, as can most children. After thousands of years of radio silence, reasonable doubt in the existence of your sky creature is easily justified, to say the least. Your absurd "god" is also apparently less capable at communication than any modern 10 year old.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

    April 3, 2014 at 9:53 pm |
    • jccopepolarbear1942

      I see the next shooter at Fort Hood here..One who wraps himself in scripture "sentences" and forgets the entire book for exactly what it is. What in He** do you think this country of ours was founded on? who were running from. Suggest Bob find a library and some children's books to learn about our history. Study most about the evangelical movement in this country during the years of the depression when churches sprung up throughout the now famous "bible belt" to give people a false sense of security. Get right to the heart of exactly what the "preachers" have done to our populace in the past 85 years. Is this truly what God meant for us or is it the mad whimperings of a church congregation trying to justify itself to fill its coffers?

      April 4, 2014 at 10:17 am |
      • sam stone

        "What in He** do you think this country of ours was founded on?"

        Freedom of religion?
        Slavery?
        Women not being able to vote?

        April 4, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
      • hotairace

        Ummm, you might want to reread Bob's post. He ain't no Babble Humper!

        April 4, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
    • truthfollower01

      Bob,

      "Not only that, but your folklore contains some pretty horrid instructions"

      On atheism, why is anything horrid?

      April 4, 2014 at 6:14 pm |
      • observer

        truthfollower01,

        Why are you still trying to spread the MINDLESS IGNORANCE that atheists don't have morals?

        Please try to get some education so you don't continue to make such a fool of yourself.

        April 4, 2014 at 6:20 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          I'm asking Bob why he thinks something is horrid on the atheist view. I did not claim that atheists cannot act morally.

          April 4, 2014 at 6:31 pm |
        • observer

          truthfollower01,

          Atheists agree on ONLY ONE THING. They don't believe in gods. Period. That's it. Any moral judgments by them are strictly on an INDIVIDUAL basis and there is NO POSSIBLE agreements by ALL of them other than as stated.

          It's pretty simple. It really shouldn't be so immensely difficult for ANYONE to understand this, but you continue to be clueless.

          April 4, 2014 at 6:36 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          Observer,

          "Atheists agree on ONLY ONE THING. They don’t believe in gods.
          Period. That’s it."

          This carries enormous implications into one's worldview.

          "Any moral judgments by them are strictly on an INDIVIDUAL basis and there is NO POSSIBLE agreements by ALL of them other than as stated."

          This is a huge problem. If one person thinks it morally good to murder and another thinks it morally good to save life, neither one are wrong. If Hitler thought what he did was morally good, he wasn't wrong on atheism. Can't you see a huge issue with this?

          April 4, 2014 at 6:44 pm |
        • sam stone

          "If Hitler thought what he did was morally good, he wasn't wrong on atheism. Can't you see a huge issue with this?"

          No. Atheism is not a moral system.

          If Hitler thought what he did was morally good, he wasn't wrong on mathematics

          If Hitler thought what he did was morally good, he wasn't wrong on electrical engineering

          If Hitler thought what he did was morally good, he wasn't wrong on kinesiology

          If Hitler thought what he did was morally good, he wasn't wrong on astronomy

          If Hitler thought what he did was morally good, he wasn't wrong on tax accounting

          If Hitler thought what he did was morally good, he wasn't wrong on golf course maintenance

          Do you have a point, truthfollower/topher/gopher, or are you just doing your normal mindless bloviating?

          April 5, 2014 at 9:59 am |
        • sam stone

          truthfollower/topher/gopher: if you are following what "god" says is moral, you aren't being moral any more than a dog is being moral when he does not jump up on the couch after he has been scolded for doing so. morality involves INDIVIDUAL judgement.

          April 5, 2014 at 10:03 am |
      • sam stone

        atheism is not a moral system, truthfollower/topher/gopher. it is a single answer to a single question. are you being intentionally obtuse, or do you lack the facilities to distinguish the difference?

        April 5, 2014 at 9:48 am |
        • likkerdysplit

          I wonder when you infidels will look to learn...
          You know what's the #1 greatest way the Christian gets his converts?
          The way he holds himself, the testament of his life.
          And I see the things that faith has made me to do and I know without any shred of a doubt if I was still in idolatry and sin I could never...
          You know the #1 reason people are repulsed by athiests?
          You, look at the way you hold yourself, and all the other infidels, endlessly knocking, but they know not what they knock, in utter ignorance they revile the believer and that's all they do.
          And if a believer ever became like them, (God forbid) their wicked hearts would still hold him as dirt beneath their nails, there is no forgiveness, there is no fellowship, there is no love just bitterness, envy and hate.
          You bear just the same rotten fruits your master intends.
          Am I to be 'tolerant' like you? You take every inch you can get, make a rope with them inches and would hang the world from a tree and leave us all in a ditch.

          April 7, 2014 at 4:26 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          no likker, that would be your divisive group-every women; every person who is born LGBT. You have no right to judge and say that 5 billion people (the number who don't believe in your god) on the planet are infidels...seems that you're on the losing side of things, not us and until you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your god is real and that the bible is true, you have no case. The greatest path to disbelief is a read of that book with an open-mind.!! Your infantile threats mean nothing to those of us not gullible enough to fall for the tripe....no heaven or hell and if hell did exist, it is people like you who would be there for being the judgmental people you come across as here. Grow up!!

          April 7, 2014 at 4:56 am |
        • likkerdysplit

          What's an LGBT? legbutt? I don't get it...
          And not 5billion unbelievers but 6.9 billion unbelievers.
          I wish it weren't thataway however it is. (Matthew 7:13-14)
          But still we are victorious, for Christ Jesus won the war on the Cross, "it's finished" He said, on Calvary.
          You have but to believe and you'll surely be saved.

          And here we are with the "judge" thing again, I guess you don't understand the word judge, how can I be a judge? I can't pass Judgment... I only write the prescriptions, I merely diagnose as based on my little medicine book here, but praise God I have the Great Physician to do the cutting.
          And yet I'm infantile when you make that infantile argument, "if there was a hell it would be the hell I decide it would be, hurr, hurr, hurr, God knows, nobody's smarter than me!"

          But I told you before brother, you'll not judge God, He IS your Judge, and you will have to give an account someday for your sin, as will I, as will every man.
          How could God be God and yet be at your every beg and whim?
          I think you can agree that if there is a God, that He is not subservient to His slaves?
          The Creator is greater than the creation.
          And that'll do me for today brother, gotta go build America so you can tear it down.

          April 7, 2014 at 7:55 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          LGBT??? Seriously??? Are you that ignorant of the world that you don't even know what LGBT refers to???
          It is 2.3 billion christians out of 7 billion on the planet...are the remainder of that 7 billion who don't share your belief doomed???
          I'm not worried about being judged by your god. I live a good life and do no harm. So if your ever so invisible god were to suddenly make an appearance-lol, I would still see no reason to follow such a vindictive abusive creature.

          Now the simple fact that you didn't know what LGBT is in the 21st century says a tremendous amount about you...simply not worthy of any more of my time. Enjoy your delusions.

          April 7, 2014 at 8:01 am |
        • likkerdysplit

          I count it all joy to be ignorant to the perversions of modern man, do you know the Word of God?
          No? So I'm the fool for refusing to bend to the whims of the worldly while you are wise for shackling yourself to certain death and deep despair?
          And you exalt yourself saying you are 'good', I ask you brother have you ever told a lie?
          Yes? Then you're a liar
          Have you ever so much as took a dime from daddy's dresser?
          Yes? Then you're a thief
          Have you ever wished death or ill upon anyone at anytime?
          Yes? Then you're a murderer
          I take my answer straight from the Word of God: Luke 18:19
          And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
          Can't you see that the best you are a contemptuous toad in the yes of God?
          We all are, we are full of sin, with a heart that is desperately wicked, and deceitful above all things (Jer. 17:9)
          So you say that rather than being a filthy contemptuous toad with 59 warts you're gonna pop a few, cut em off and think yourself white as snow, I only got 51 now, ain't I great!

          And finally no, everyone who proclaims themselves Christian is not Christian, many, many full churchhouses are gonna wake up in hell in the end of it all.
          That's the saddest tragedy of all of these times.

          April 27, 2014 at 3:51 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Yes I know the bible. To call it the word of god is dishonest given that there is no evidence that god had a hand in its writing was man, no evidence for a god at all.
          You use the No Trues Scotsman fallacy by stating "no, everyone who proclaims themselves Christian is not Christian".
          "So you say that rather than being a filthy contemptuous toad "...Sorry, your words, not mine and apparently you have reading comprehension skills.
          Quoting scripture proves nothing more than laziness when there is so much against the bible showing it is wrong.
          Grow up...people like you hold society back and are dooming us.

          April 27, 2014 at 6:02 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          this "writing was man" should have been 'writing and that it was man instead'.

          To clarify, hell can't be proven...so no rational justified reason to accept the horror of it but if it does exist (hahahaha) it would be judgemental Christians like you who will be there...enjoy the torture you have wished upon so many-not a moral standing and not a worthy thing in this world.

          April 27, 2014 at 6:26 am |
        • midwest rail

          "...gotta go build America so you can tear it down."
          Absolute hogwash.

          April 7, 2014 at 8:02 am |
  10. Vic

    ♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰ ♰ ♰

    Concerning an earlier discussion today about "revelation in nature" regarding the sexes, the genders, male & female, it is imperative to note that 'Evolution' CANNOT explain where they came from. The "Creation by God" is the ONLY explanation why there is male and female sexes/genders.

    April 3, 2014 at 9:37 pm |
    • hotairace

      Wrong on two counts:

      Evolution doesn't have anything to do with the origin of life on Earth.

      ♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord is Complete, 100% Pure Bullshit ♰ ♰ ♰

      April 3, 2014 at 9:44 pm |
      • believerfred

        Do you really want to go much past 99.9999% .............given you have ZERO evidence in your favor?

        April 3, 2014 at 11:21 pm |
        • rogerthat2014

          How much evidence do you have?

          April 4, 2014 at 5:00 am |
    • Bob

      Vic, seriously, regarding this idiotic Jesus stuff that you keep harping about, the whole Jesus-sacrifice thing is rubbish. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there. The foundation of your whole religion is complete nonsense.

      Not only that, but your folklore contains some pretty horrid instructions purportedly from your murderous sky fairy such as these, just to cite a few. From both foul testaments, and note the text after the quotes:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      And further, ask yourself why we should have to rely on very stale, thousands-of-years-old, many-versioned old text, that is only reasonably subject to debates over its meaning. Why is it that your pathetic sky fairy can't even get with the past decade and create his own web presence (no, religious shill sites don't count), or push some tweets out? Even the pope, that creepy hider of criminal priests, could do that much, as can most children. After thousands of years of radio silence, reasonable doubt in the existence of your sky creature is easily justified, to say the least. Your absurd "god" is also apparently less capable at communication than any modern 10 year old.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      April 3, 2014 at 9:56 pm |
  11. Keith

    World Vision tried to do something right and the bigots that call themselves Christians put a stop to it.

    April 3, 2014 at 7:17 pm |
    • guidedans

      Keith,

      Christians are the main donors to World Vision. Their Core Values start off with:

      "We acknowledge one God; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In Jesus Christ, the love, mercy and grace of God are made known to us and all people. From this overflowing abundance of God’s love, we find our call to ministry.

      We proclaim together, "Jesus lived, died, and rose again. Jesus is Lord." We desire him to be central in our individual and corporate life."

      Do you think a lot of non-Christians are donating to this group?

      Even if they made a move to broaden their base, without drastically changing their core values, they would still be alienating non-Christians with their mission statements.

      What I am trying to say is that World Vision has a base of supporters and it will be very difficult for them to find support outside that base. Thus, they should do what that base wants.

      If you had a company and your main customers were kosher, and one day you decided to add a little pork to your product, you would go out of business.

      World Vision does not want to go out of business, so they made a business decision. You may not agree with what they did, but let me ask you this: Would you ever donate to World Vision, even if they changed their stance on hom.ose.xual marriage, but kept their desires to convert others to Christianity?

      April 3, 2014 at 8:05 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        A little pork, a little discrimination, meh, what's the difference? Right?

        April 3, 2014 at 8:23 pm |
      • hotairace

        Just as the Ku Klux Klan leadership should do what their base wants.

        April 3, 2014 at 8:34 pm |
      • Madtown

        In Jesus Christ, the love, mercy and grace of God are made known to us and all people.
        ----
        Huge problem: ALL PEOPLE. Jesus Christ isn't known to all people, christianity isn't known to all people. God creates humans every day, that will inhabit regions of this earth where christianity doesn't exist, and where these individuals will never hear the first thing about it. So.....how again have these things been "made known" to ALL people? Seems they haven't.

        April 3, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
      • kudlak

        Perhaps this is best understood as younger, more liberal evangelicals coming to executive roles in World Vision; and older, more conservative evangelicals, representing the major churches and organizations that supply the funds?

        Eventually, the older conservatives will die off, however.

        April 3, 2014 at 10:37 pm |
      • joey3467

        What I am trying to say is that World Vision has a base of supporters and it will be very difficult for them to find support outside that base

        I agree no that it is clear that they discriminate against others, they will have a hard time finding support amongst those of us who don't discriminate against others.

        April 4, 2014 at 11:51 am |
      • Keith

        I still give to the Salvation Army because of the work they do and they do not try to convert the folks that they serve in disasters. I suppose that is the only Christian organization I give to. What my comment was about was that the board obviously felt one way about the issue but because of outside pressure they abandoned their beliefs. If any board of any organization I was involved with did that, I would no longer be associated with them. I dont' have to agree with everything someone does but I expect them to take a stand for their beliefs.

        April 4, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
    • truthfollower01

      Keith,

      Right according to who?

      April 4, 2014 at 6:16 pm |
      • Keith

        Obviously the board thought it was right, but they abandoned their beliefs because of donor pressure. If it was me that is when I would leave.

        April 4, 2014 at 6:31 pm |
  12. His Panic

    OMG, OMG I think a Nun from the Roman church is Moderating my comments!!

    I cannot even type Hys.te.ria here without her going into a State of Total Panic That is because they do not really, really Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son. Rather they have misplaced their "trust" in the Pope, in dogmas and in Idols/gods made of metal, stone or wood.

    Good Lord in Heaven I cannot even post my favorite smileys!!

    April 3, 2014 at 7:12 pm |
    • Akira

      If OMG stands for 'oh, my God', why are you continuously breaking the 3rd Commandment?

      April 3, 2014 at 7:50 pm |
      • His Panic

        Your argument is unacceptable!! You cannot claim to be an atheist or whatever have you then turn around and come back quoting God's Law. Psalm 50 disallows you to do that. So NO, NO you can't get away with that.

        April 4, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
        • Akira

          I'm not atheist. I never claimed that.
          So, IF OMG means 'oh, my God', why are you in a panic and breaking the 3rd Commandment? Not just once, but repeatedly?

          April 4, 2014 at 3:25 pm |
        • likkerdysplit

          Well I'm a fully Grace-laden, God-fearing IFB bible believer and I say you need to repent son.
          The best sign that you're not saved is not that you can sin.
          But that you can sin and not feel absolutely gutted and condemned over it.
          See when we're saved God doesn't make it that we can never sin again.
          But that we can never again enjoy it, there is no gain in sin, there is no gain therein, only death – For the wages of sin is death – Romans 6:23
          'Prudence approaches, Conscience Accuses'

          April 6, 2014 at 7:45 am |
        • igaftr

          hispanic
          You are trying to tell someone who does not believe in your ridiculous book, that your book says they can't do something...that is hilarious, and really sad.

          April 6, 2014 at 7:57 am |
    • Akira

      It's not the word hysteria. It's the emoticons that are doing it.

      April 3, 2014 at 7:51 pm |
      • His Panic

        OMG OMG!! You are the Nun!!!

        April 4, 2014 at 2:41 pm |
        • Akira

          No. It's been established and talked about.

          April 4, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      I thought His Panics were mostly Catholic?

      April 3, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
      • His Panic

        JAJAJA... oops... pardon me... I meant to say HAHAHA!! And if so... what? You probably thought also that most Americans are Christians didn't you? I would not be surprised if you also thought most Germans are NAZIS or that most Italians are Fascists etc. etc. & etc. How ri.di.cu.lous is your line of reasoning!!

        April 4, 2014 at 2:40 pm |
  13. believerfred

    hotairace

    "you repeatedly mention life from rocks (which is not what scientists are investigating)"
    =>Last I heard existence began with inorganic matter. I simplify it as a rock rather than discuss various baryonic matter forms.
    " yet you believe your alleged but never proven god created Adam out of dirt/clay"
    =>actually, Genesis says formed out of the dust of the earth (which actually contains the same base matter as science speculates was present when inorganic matter became organic). I don't know what process or matter God used.

    "Can't you see that both feats would be pretty much the same? Why do you believe one and not the other."
    =>it very well could be, I don't know. The language is wide open in Genesis to even allow for a quantum flux without cause.

    "Gay marriage is not about procreation – it's about love."
    =>I am not hung up about the physiology of male, female or procreation. When God said be fruitful and multiply there were several directions in fruitfulness one of which was procreation.

    " Why won't you and your ilk allow all consenting adults to express their love publicly and guilt free?"
    =>as I said remove the word "marriage" from license and issue only civil union licenses to everyone. If you want to celebrate an old fashion wedding of what ever kind or public celebration go for it. Why would anyone want to get married in a church that understands it is not a biblically endorsed marriage?

    April 3, 2014 at 6:35 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Fred
      In Canada, gay couples are routinely married in Anglican and Unitarian churches.
      If there are religious insti/tutions with no qualms about performing the ceremonies, why stop them?
      God's command to be fruitful and multiply is no longer relevant.
      There are 7 billion humans and our numbers are increasing exponentially. Over population is arguably the most serious issue our species will face in the coming century.
      We need to curb our multiplication, not keep the status quo or increase it.

      April 3, 2014 at 7:00 pm |
      • Peaceadvocate2014

        Doc,

        I think rather than curving multiplication of our population, we should find ways to accomodate the needs of our multiplying population.

        Let God decide in curving the multiplication of our population

        April 3, 2014 at 7:17 pm |
        • Akira

          I also think reproduction matters are best left to the people doing the reproducing.

          April 3, 2014 at 7:55 pm |
        • sealchan

          We are actually, again, in the situation of the Garden of Eden...only the Garden is now the whole planet and our very fruitfullness is simultaneoulsy our compulsion to leave the Garden and colonize other planets. Because of our eating of the tree of knowledge we must use our knowledge to live elsewhere. We must also preserve the Garden but I think that in the long run we shouldn't keep "all of our eggs in one basket" even if we keep the basket nice and liveable. In an evolving Christianity, I think this fact would be an important truth.

          April 3, 2014 at 7:58 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          We can clearly see what the effects of overpopulation will be.
          Equitable distribution of resources on a global scale would certainly help to mitigate the immediacy of the issue, but slowing is not the same as stopping.
          Any organism left to reproduce unchecked will eventually be poisoned by its own effluence.
          We are seeing clear sings that human beings are beginning to do exactly that.
          As a species, our blessing and our curse is that aside from ourselves, we have no effective predators.
          Over half a century living under the spectre of nuclear armageddon shows that while we may sometimes be genocidal, we are not androcidal. The threat of mutually assured destruction has put a stalemate on large scale, human on human slaughter.
          But culling the herd is essential for a species survival – and it will happen, one way or another.
          We can continue to run full throttle, willfully blind and oblivious to tomorrow, and let nature (or God, if you will) take it's course. We will one day run out of aerable land and some good portion of humanity will die of starvation.
          By cramming ourselves by the million into constricted quarters, we have turned out cities into the ideal breeding grounds for infectious diseases.
          Since Pasteur first positively identified our microbial predators, we have waged successful battles against some of the worst – but while we move only as quickly as our smartest minds can collaborate, viruses and bacteria are evolving faster than we can cogitate. They will win out eventually, unless we take away their means of propagation – meaning we but more space between the average human and their neighbour.

          That we can recognize these trends means that we have the power to change them.
          For the first time, we have conquered the curse of Babel. Technology has given us instant, global communication.
          We can use it to try and understand each other and find means to work together – or we can use it to reinforce prejudice and tribalism.
          We must move past religion – not because Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc are negative in and of themselves – but because they are divisive.
          We save only ourselves.
          We damn only ourselves.
          And in the end, we answer only to ourselves.

          April 3, 2014 at 9:03 pm |
    • guidedans

      Hey Fred,

      I totally appreciate what you are saying, but hotairrace is really just an instigator. I have stopped responding to him entirely as he is just trying to rile us up.

      I like to look at Proverbs 26:20 when dealing with people like him:

      "For lack of wood the fire goes out, and where there is no whisperer, quarreling ceases."

      Keep on preaching the good word, but I just don't think engaging Mr. Hot Air will bear many fruits.

      God Bless

      April 3, 2014 at 7:45 pm |
      • Bob

        guidedans, while you are quote dumping on us from your Christian book of nasty AKA the bible, let's look at what it actually says that your murderous jerk in the sky actually demands of you. From both foul testaments, and note carefully the text after the quotes:

        Numbers 31:17-18
        17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
        18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

        Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

        Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

        Leviticus 25
        44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
        45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
        46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

        Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

        Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

        And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

        So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

        And further, ask yourself why we should have to rely on very stale, thousands-of-years-old, many-versioned old text, that is only reasonably subject to debates over its meaning. Why is it that your pathetic sky fairy can't even get with the past decade and create his own web presence (no, religious shill sites don't count), or push some tweets out? Even the pope, that creepy hider of criminal priests, could do that much, as can most children. After thousands of years of radio silence, reasonable doubt in the existence of your sky creature is easily justified, to say the least. Your absurd "god" is also apparently less capable at communication than any modern 10 year old.

        Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
        Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
        http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

        April 3, 2014 at 9:31 pm |
      • hotairace

        When you have no answers for very simple questions it is best to keep quiet. Your silence is greatly appreciated.

        April 4, 2014 at 4:43 am |
  14. His Panic

    Who is "Moderating" my comments, some Nun from the Vatican?

    April 3, 2014 at 6:31 pm |
  15. His Panic

    OK people this may be the last time I say this!! Clearly she is suffering from amnesia which may have led her to anxiety then to hys.te.ria and finally to Panic. Those who really, really Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son WILL NOT Panic. All others will Panic. There was some anxiety these days in Chile it is a very scary and serious situation there. Panic can lead to brawls, stampedes and even riots. You may think you are having a riot but is not.

    Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son and you WILL NOT Panic.

    April 3, 2014 at 6:25 pm |
    • His Panic

      How ridi.cul.ous, you cannot even type hys.ter.ia here without causing the Vatican, atheists, idol.aters and evolutionists to go into a riot. They immediately fall victims to Panic, that is because they do not Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son.

      April 3, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
      • observer

        The ONLY panicky person on here is you and your obsession with panic. Get some help.

        April 3, 2014 at 6:32 pm |
        • His Panic

          mmm... Looks like you are nearly having an attack of anxiety, hys.ter.ria which can lead to Panic. All because you do not Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son. You may end-up being involved in a brawl a riot or an stampede. Animals do fall victims to Panic also and get into stampedes.

          April 3, 2014 at 6:43 pm |
        • observer

          His Panic,

          I'm totally chilled and just laughing at your pitiful obsession with panic.

          April 3, 2014 at 7:23 pm |
        • Akira

          I wonder at him not being able to write hysteria, ridiculous, and idolators, and thinking it hasn't got something to do with his tendency to overuse emoticons.

          April 3, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
  16. Doc Vestibule

    " If it was equality they wanted they should strip all benefits away from marriage period."

    It isn't about taking anything away from the legalities of marriage.
    There are 1,138 benefits, rights and protections provided on the basis of marital status in Federal law.
    It is about extending those rights to everyone.

    Until the latter half of the 20th century, interracial couples were denied those rights and protections.
    Same gender couples deserve the same even if you find gay people icky (or sinful, whatever).
    Common law couples live in sin. Would you deny them their rights because God disapproves?
    I've been happily unmarried and raising a family with my partner for a decade.

    April 3, 2014 at 5:37 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "....No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws...."

      This is pretty clear cut.

      April 3, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
      • His Panic

        Compared to the Bible that is very, very substandard!!!

        April 3, 2014 at 6:38 pm |
        • Keith

          Compared to the "bible" that make sense

          April 3, 2014 at 7:14 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        I for one am much, much happier to live in a country where the laws are framed by the Const.itution rather than one framed by the Bible.

        Have you ever considered how different Sharia is from the Mitzvah / 613 Mitzvot?

        April 3, 2014 at 6:43 pm |
      • His Panic

        Sub from the Latin for under = sub-standard. So how in the world there could be a Culture war? What you have is a sub-standard "culture" if any at all in a downward spin, running down to the se.wer.

        April 3, 2014 at 6:47 pm |
        • observer

          His Panic

          "Compared to the Bible that is very, very substandard!!!"

          Yep, when the Bible means slavery, discriminations and beating children. BIG improvement

          April 3, 2014 at 6:49 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @His Panic
          Can you think of an era in which society was what you consider "proper"?
          If so, in what ways was it superior to today's culture?

          April 3, 2014 at 6:50 pm |
        • His Panic

          And that is because water always flows/travels/go to the lowest point. Either that or the sub-culture is so stagnant/stale that is smelling really, really bad.

          April 3, 2014 at 6:53 pm |
        • His Panic

          @ blindobserver, There you go again!!

          @ docvestibule, No, no such a thing IMVHO. Though at first sight some "eras" in History may appear to some as better and even may have been in some areas, but not as a whole. It will be foo.lish to say such thing and the Bible says so!!

          April 3, 2014 at 7:05 pm |
        • observer

          His Panic

          "There you go again!!"

          Yep. Can't change what the Bible says as bad as it can be.

          April 3, 2014 at 7:40 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          I think we are on an upward spiral having shed legal slavery, bans on women voting, bans on blacks voting, bans on interracial marriage, all defeated. Equal rights are an ongoing struggle because discrimination has been taught for thousands of years and is embedded at the very heart of humanity. It takes great struggle to force those discriminating to see it for what it is and often only long after they have been defeated do they begin to realize what total prlcks they had been. Some never see it, heck, there are a bunch of idiots down south that want to secede so they can discriminate all they want and hate the federal government for treating other people they don't even know in the same manner it would them, they just can't have that, no they can't have browns and blacks and yellows and tans and reds and rainbows being treated the same as they are! They need privilege, they need tax breaks for the wealthy, they need stand your ground laws, they need to call them civil unions, they need to shoot first and ask questions later because they certainly will never win the war with their wits. But like I said, we are going up and the country is getting better regardless of what those morons spout. Let them go cry about "losing their america" while the rest of us build a better one.

          April 3, 2014 at 8:39 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @His Panic
          When last I checked, Diogenes was still looking...

          April 3, 2014 at 9:06 pm |
  17. Richard Talkin'

    How to make money while speaking "Christianese".

    Step 1: Start a culture war.

    Step 2: Be actively engaged in the war.

    Step 3: Speak "Christianese" while in the war, a quote from Matthew 25 will be fine to appear convincing!

    Note: To stay in business always look for opportunities. Do a SWOT analysis, remember starting a "culture war" is your strength. Remember, foundational Biblical knowledge is not your strength but speaking "Christianese" is.

    April 3, 2014 at 5:03 pm |
    • Richard Talkin'

      The most important step is:

      Step 4: Write a book about the "culture war".

      April 3, 2014 at 5:05 pm |
      • Richard Talkin'

        Although, mentioning Jesus in your book is blasphemous, your lack of reverence will excuse you from such infelicitous behavior.

        April 3, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
        • Josh

          Why did World Vision get dragged into this perceived culture war mess?

          The cause of World Vision toward humanitarian aid far exceeds and outweighs the trivial and nonsensical controversies raised by insignificant human beings.

          World Vision must continue to stay focused in building a better world for children, which is what they are known for and which is what they do best and stay away from unnecessary distractions and the deceitful.

          April 3, 2014 at 5:41 pm |
        • His Panic

          Are you saying that Rachel is in Fact making a lot of money out of this so called "Culture war"?

          April 3, 2014 at 6:20 pm |
    • Josh

      Evangelicals/World Vision – Giving children a hope and building the next generation!!!

      April 3, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
      • observer

        Josh,

        WV tried to actually follow the Golden Rule and many Christians got upset.

        April 3, 2014 at 5:50 pm |
        • guidedans

          Matthew 22:36-40
          New International Version (NIV)
          36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

          37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

          Observer,

          Truly loving someone does not mean supporting them in doing something that you feel to be counter to their well-being. If you had a friend whom you loved and your friend was behaving in a way that could harm him, you would not be a good friend if you did not step in and try to get your friend to stop his behavior.

          I don't like these controversies over individual sins because I think it clouds the message, but Christians believe that, when you sin, you are hurting yourself and you are separating yourself from God. Thus you see Christians speaking out against sin. It is completely in line with the Golden Rule.

          April 3, 2014 at 7:53 pm |
        • observer

          guidedans,

          "Thus you see Christians speaking out against sin. It is completely in line with the Golden Rule."

          When you see Christians judging others, they are NOT following Jesus and the Golden Rule.

          When you see Christians picking on verses about gays while IGNORING the FACT that there are FAR FAR MORE Christian ADULTERERS because of divorce and remarriage, it is pure PICK-AND-CHOOSE HYPOCRISY.

          April 4, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
        • hotairace

          I wonder how many christians speak out against abortion and then go have one? All of the ones that have them? As background, 70+% of all abortions had in the USA are had by believers, about 700,000 per year.

          April 4, 2014 at 12:41 pm |
      • hotairace

        Evangelicals – using WorldVision and starving children to continue discrimination against gays.

        April 3, 2014 at 5:50 pm |
    • likkerdysplit

      Brother, who's fighting this 'culture war'?
      I've become a foreigner in my own country for simply continuing the old time traditions of my forebears, the American way, the Christian way, and yes, even the southern way.
      Yet I'm apparently fighting some sorta 'revolution', a rebellion against the rebellious.
      And yet I'm not involved in any political groups, have never been to any kind of political protest and likely never will..
      But I'm discriminating and persecuting all of y'all apparently.
      You know what, I'm just sick and tired of you knuckle-dragging, sin-loving, Godless, insolent, arrogant, ignorant, lazy, lustful, greedy, selfish, sin-filled political activist athiests.
      How can you people so hate those that are giving their all to help you? You've never tried what we got, though we've all tried what you've got, and found that it just ain't all that convincing, it really ain't, there's nothing good or true in that..
      I'm sorry I criticized y'all like that but Lord only knows what drives y'all.
      I come home from a long day's work, I can hardly sit down my back hurts so much, I put on some Gospel music, I check my emails and I find nothing but verbal vomit and endless negativity from a bunch of atheist internet reprobates.
      But at the end of the day i say God bless y'all, someday He'll find you, and you'll be fooled no more.

      April 7, 2014 at 4:47 am |
  18. Dyslexic doG

    so according to your book, the jesus character was a young man in his thirties, traveling through the countryside with 12 male friends. According to your book, he was not married to a woman, nor did he have physical relations with any women.

    He must have been gay. I wonder if he was secretly married to any of his 12 'friends'? They must have kept that part out of the bible during one of the countless edits and content discussion meetings.

    April 3, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
    • His Panic

      Your per.vert.ed view is understandable given the sub-standard and corrupt "culture" in which you were born, raised and hold as an absolute paradigm.

      April 3, 2014 at 7:18 pm |
  19. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    commo check 8)

    April 3, 2014 at 3:16 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Lima Charlie

      April 3, 2014 at 3:17 pm |
      • ausphor

        Delta Zulu, Delta Zulu. We need more ammo, praise the lord.

        April 3, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
  20. Vic

    Somber moments in Fort Hood, TX.

    Our hearts and prayers go out to the families of the victims.

    April 3, 2014 at 3:14 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Dude had something wrong with him before he joined the Army... one 4 month tour in Iraq as a truck driver seems unlikely to make you snap.

      The last U.S. troops left Iraq on 18 December 2011. Just saying...

      April 3, 2014 at 3:20 pm |
      • Vic

        I know, it's mind boggling.

        Apparently, he was evaluated for PTSD but not diagnosed with it. There could have been a motive but it is too early to call.

        Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel hit the nail on the head by saying “something’s not working.”

        April 3, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          It is impossible to screen everyone who has deployed in the last 13 years... and then predict if they are going to snap or something. A lot of us have PTSD symptoms, but that doesn't mean we are going to go on a shooting rampage like some Grand Theft Auto jackass...

          April 3, 2014 at 3:40 pm |
    • Akira

      My heart goes out to the families.

      We need to treat our vets better...starting with withdrawing completely from the ME and not being so bloody happy to start new wars....and making it easier to get the help they need and deserve.

      Chickenhawks, sign up your own damn selves if you want to play soldier so badly. You've made enough money off of the lives of our children.

      April 3, 2014 at 3:26 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        Pulling out of the ME will not solve much, I'm afraid. There is quite the waiting line: Iran, China, the USSR (I mean Russia), North Korea, Syria, etc...

        April 3, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
        • Akira

          I know...I just want so badly to be done with the ME.

          I don't want any new conflicts. I'm so tired of war.

          Throughout recorded history , there has only been a total of 250 years where the world has been entirely peaceful...and that wasn't consecutive.

          April 3, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
      • His Panic

        Really Akira!!! You want me to believe you have a heart?

        April 3, 2014 at 7:23 pm |
        • Akira

          Quite frankly, I couldn't care less what a substandard punster believes.

          April 3, 2014 at 7:59 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Yes, it is very tragic for all the families involved.

      It is also very sad that we continue to enable this sort of behavior by readily supplying firearms to people with psychiatric issues.

      April 3, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.