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April 14th, 2014
08:30 AM ET

Police arrest 'raging anti-Semite' in Kansas Jewish center shootings

(CNN) - A Missouri man, with a long virulent history of anti-Semitism, is suspected of killing a boy and his grandfather outside a Jewish community center in Kansas City and a woman at a Jewish assisted living facility nearby.

While police in Overland Park, Kansas, stopped short of labeling the Sunday attacks a hate crime until they were further along in their investigation, the suspect - Frazier Glenn Miller – is the founder and former leader of the Carolina Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the White Patriot Party.

Both operated as paramilitary organizations in the 1980s, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups.

The 73-year-old Miller, who also goes by Frazier Glenn Cross, faces charges of premeditated first-degree murder. He is expected to appear in court Monday.

FULL STORY

- CNN Belief Blog Editor

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (73 Responses)
  1. observer

    Non-believers are told that it is a united front of believers who oppose them.

    This horrible incident underscores that believers believe in a lot of different gods that go by the name of God.

    April 14, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
  2. Dyslexic doG

    if I was powerful enough to create the universe, I would not have let Miller kill these poor people. In fact I would not have let Miller be so hateful in the first place.

    I am pleased to say that is the difference between me and your god.

    April 14, 2014 at 12:41 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      How loving that He gives us all free will. Just as He's given you the free will to reject Him.

      April 14, 2014 at 2:02 pm |
      • zendraxus

        Really? and His plan???

        Nothing happens that God doesn't intend.....let me guess, this is a Character Building moment for the victims' families – after all, He never gives us more than we can handle.

        unless you subscribe to Miller's brand of the Christian faith....then he was only God's hand doling out divine justice against those that killed Jesus (even though that was a huge part of the Plan from the get go).

        April 14, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • kenmargo

          .....let me guess, this is a Character Building moment for the victims' families – after all, "He never gives us more than we can handle"

          Another line (lie) that is used: "god has a plan for the victims" or "Their work on this earth is done" or
          "Free will" Blah, blah

          April 16, 2014 at 4:02 pm |
      • igaftr

        topher
        It is not rejection. It is skepticism in the fact that there is no evidence of "him". Show "he" exists, and then you can talk about rejection. Until then, it is not accepting the complete and total lack of evidence. Not accepting does not mean rejecting.It is not accepting at this time, and reserving judgement until there can be some kind of validation.

        I do not reject your god, I simply do not believe it exists, so nothing to reject.

        April 14, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          God said that if you are not for Him, you're against Him.

          April 14, 2014 at 2:37 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Tribalism is the root of all war.

          April 14, 2014 at 2:40 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          And according to the Babel story, God is the primary cause of Tribalism.

          April 14, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
        • igaftr

          topher
          "God said that if you are not for Him, you're against Him."

          False. Men wrote in the bible that god sai...not god said. To be correct you either need to say that it is according the the man made bible, or god allegedly said, but you have no idea what god said if anything, or if there truly are any gods.

          God is a fool if he thinks you are either with him or against him...that is truly a false, ignorant statement by men.I am not against any gods, I simply do not believe they exist, so I cannot be for or against.

          If I say there is no tooth fairy, it is not rejecting the tooth fairy, and I am not against the tooth fairy.

          Thank you for pointing out another place the bible is clearly wrong.

          April 14, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
      • MidwestKen

        ...but was it necessary to allow people's free will to kill other people?

        Is it just to allow injustice in order to provivde "ultimate justice" later?

        April 14, 2014 at 2:41 pm |
        • Alias

          According to te christian doctrine I grew up with, Yes and Yes.
          IF you accept the bible you should understand that this life is only important because it determines where you will spend eternity. Suffering and injustice here do not matter.

          April 16, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
  3. bostontola

    This guy is not just an anti-Semite, he is a nazi. He hates everyone but his narrow group. Hopefully, he will be tormented by the fact that he killed 2 Christians.

    April 14, 2014 at 12:39 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      3 Christians. The 3rd victim is Catholic. She was visiting her mom who was staying at an assisted living facility that was near the Jewish Community Center.

      April 14, 2014 at 1:01 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Like many other evangelical Protestants, they don't consider Catholics to be True Scotsmen.

      April 14, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
      • Dalahäst

        A few guys and gals on here say I'm not a real Christians because I don't believe God is a sky-fairy nor believe prayer means saying magical words that forces God to grant my wishes. Oh well.

        April 14, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
        • bostontola

          If it's not too personal, what is God to you?

          April 14, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Our creator. The spirit/power that operates the universe. I saw Neil deGrasse Tyson tear up recently talking about him personally hearing the universe calling him to explore it and the wonderful feeling and awe that surrounds him when studying. That is God to me.

          I really can't give an accurate description of God. He is still a big mystery to me. He authored the science we study. The mathematics we use to better understand our world. That science and other things like logic are great, but are incapable of describing God adequately.

          Above all God is that universal power that knows me, loves me, guides me and helps me through this imperfect world.

          April 14, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
      • bostontola

        Methodists are Protestant, but I wonder if they count to nazis since they focus on helping the poor of all kinds.

        April 14, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
  4. Concert in an Egg

    Where was God?

    April 14, 2014 at 11:50 am |
    • snuffleupagus

      Concert said: "Where was god?" Umm,out to lunch, a really loooonng lunch?

      April 14, 2014 at 11:57 am |
      • Concert in an Egg

        Or dry cleaning. Could be that, or groceries.

        April 14, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
    • bostontola

      Both fictional characters and Gods don't affect real world events, but that's probably just a coincidence.

      April 14, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      Concert in an Egg

      "Where was God?"

      He was there. What do you mean, "Where was God?"

      April 14, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
      • Concert in an Egg

        Oh, ok. He did not try to....you know...do or a.....anything really....

        April 14, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
  5. Akira

    That this still happens is so sad.
    My sympathy to the families involved and to the community.

    April 14, 2014 at 11:17 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Yes, this is very sad.

      The dreadful irony that two of his victims were Christians reminds me of the attack on the Sikh temple in Wisconsin a couple of year ago. The ignorance and hate of the people who commit these crimes is staggering.

      April 14, 2014 at 11:59 am |
      • Concert in an Egg

        Yes, it is as if in their minds, these victims are harming them personally and deserve to be killed.

        April 14, 2014 at 12:06 pm |
    • bostontola

      I feel the same. When I saw the mom on the news say she was the daughter of a victim and the mother of a victim I lost it.

      April 14, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
  6. Dyslexic doG

    once the human mind is twisted by the foolishness of religion, then common sense and reality are gone. Once you are conditioned to believe the baseless, factless, fairy tales of religion, you can believe just about anything. There is no limit to the acts that a cult addled mind can justify to itself.

    April 14, 2014 at 10:25 am |
    • neverbeenhappieratheist

      Anything that teaches that other humans are less than you or yours is an abomination and a pox on mankind. Religion is merely another tool bigoted humans have used to distinguish a difference between themselves and those they want to take from, discriminate against or kill without considering themselves subject to human laws that would forbid such things.

      April 14, 2014 at 11:37 am |
  7. MidwestKen

    As a neighbor to this community my thoughts are with them and hopefully your pain and suffering will be soon be eased.

    Peace for all.

    April 14, 2014 at 10:12 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Indeed.

      It's little comfort but at least the justice system might give the people of KC some closure, more so than with murder + suicides.

      April 14, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
  8. monkeyabeyman

    Memorial of Jesus’ Death

    You are warmly invited to meet with us to observe the anniversary of Jesus’ death. Find a meeting location near you.

    Find a Location Near You
    You Are Invited

    On the night before he died, Jesus instructed his disciples to commemorate the sacrifice that he was about to make. He told them: “Keep doing this in remembrance of me.”—Luke 22:19.

    In 2014, the anniversary of Jesus’ death falls on Monday, April 14, after sundown. Jehovah’s Witnesses invite you, your family, and your friends to come on that date to listen to a brief talk explaining why Jesus’ death is so important.

    This free event will take place at a location near you.

    April 14, 2014 at 10:08 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      and then we will be celebrating the graduation of Harry Potter many years ago now and the joyous day when Tinkerbelle first learned to use her magic dust.

      Stories. Stories! All stories!

      Anything in your book written about what jesus did or said were written decades after the jesus character was said to have lived. There are only stories.

      April 14, 2014 at 10:20 am |
    • Theo Phileo

      I was under the impression that Jehovah's Witnesses didn't believe that Jesus died on the cross, that's why the New World Translation renders the Greek word "stautos" as "torture stake" instead of "cross..." Anyway, if you believe that Jesus was a created being (Arianism), and that He isn't God, but was some kind of demi-god, then he had no power to save us from anything. I also thought that Jehovah's Witnesses didn't believe in hell, so, if that's true, then there's really nothing that Jesus came to save us from. Also, don't Jehovah's Witnesses claim that Jesus has already returned in the early 1900's? So if that's true, then we've all been left behind, and there's no hope for any of us...

      April 14, 2014 at 10:21 am |
      • Dyslexic doG

        try debating Star Trek vs. Star Wars. Some of the story lines really cross paths, and some of the technologies actually contradict each other. Fascinating stuff for you Theo and Monkey.

        April 14, 2014 at 10:29 am |
      • Doc Vestibule

        JoHo theology says that Jesus kind of returned in 1917 (though he was supposed to have done that in mid 1800s according to earlier prophecies in that sect).
        He's not physically present, but they state that he is actively judging everyone from His heavenly office.
        They don't believe in Hell as a fiery place of eternal torment but rather as the absence of God.
        They also think that Heaven is an exclusive club with a limited membership of 144,000 (the original 12 tribes).

        April 14, 2014 at 10:30 am |
      • Akira

        They do believe he died though.

        Is the instrument of His death more important than WHY He died? That seems silly.

        April 14, 2014 at 11:15 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          "Is the instrument of His death more important than WHY He died?"
          ------------
          They are equally important seeing as His manner of death was prophesied in Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53.

          April 14, 2014 at 11:21 am |
        • Akira

          Well, of course the scribes of the NT would want that fulfillment.

          April 14, 2014 at 11:27 am |
        • MidwestKen

          @Theo Phileo,
          How was the "I am poured out", "all my bones are out of joint", "my heart is like wax... melted" (psalm 22) fufilled?

          Or "he was crushed" (isa 53)?

          ... just for starters

          April 14, 2014 at 11:47 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          MidwestKen,
          Psalm 22:16 – "they pierced my hands and my feet, I can count all my bones."
          > He was crucified, piercing His hands and feet, but unlike the two thieves beside Him, His legs were not broken

          Isaiah 53:4-6 – ...He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed...
          > Jesus was pieced by nails and a spear, and He was chastened by scrourging. Another way of rendering that text is "by His stripes we are healed." Noting the manner of scourging He would unergo.

          April 14, 2014 at 11:53 am |
        • MidwestKen

          @Theo Phileo,
          You didn't answer my question. What you appear to be doing is cherry picking statements that seem to match while ignoring ones that don't. How is that fulfillment?

          April 14, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "How was the "I am poured out", "all my bones are out of joint", "my heart is like wax... melted" (psalm 22) fufilled?
          Or "he was crushed" (isa 53)?
          -------------
          Cherry picking? No. But because I don't explain every suttle nuance, you think I'm attempting to be devious.

          1)"All my bones are out of joint." The act of crucifixion often disjointed its victim as it forced their bodies into painful positions

          2) "I am poured out." This is symbolic of the drink offering that would have accompanied animal sacrifices in the Levitical system, meant to remind them that "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." When He says that "I am poured out," He is saying that He, Himself IS that sacrifice to God that is to be for the remission of sins.

          3) The terminology "heart is like wax" and being "crushed" are terminology to describe excruciating pain. And of course, our word "Excruciating" means literally "out of the cross" (Ex Crucia).

          April 14, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @Theo Phileo,
          Did not intend to imply that you were being devious, just mistaken due to a desire to make it fit.

          So, instead of ignoring them you arbitrarily classify them as hyperbolic (all my bones), symbolic, or idiomatic/metaphorical?

          Why take that one sentence about peicing as literal out of nearly an entire passage of metaphore?
          That seems like cherry picking to me, intentional or not.

          April 14, 2014 at 2:21 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          MidwestKen,
          So you do not allow the Bible to use literary devices then? Even in prophecy the Bible uses literary devices or figurative language to describe physical events. You really shouldn't have a problem with this. When you hear someone say that they "ditched their girlfriend," do you automatically assume that he threw his girlfriend into a ditch? No, you understand that means that he has disassociated himself from a relationship that he no longer wished to be associated with. Figurative language is a part of being human that we might draw emphasis to certain ideas.

          It's not cherry picking. It's basic reading comprehension 101.

          April 14, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @Theo Philleo,
          Lterary devices sure, it's likely all literary devices. I'm questioning why you think this one small peice should be taken as literal and prophetic. Death by fire could likely be portrayed as well, if you can pick an chose the literal vs the metaphor.

          Why would you compare modern informal conversation with scripture? Aren't we often told to read it in the context of the times it was written. Did ancient jews use 'melted heart' to indicate pain, because now it means overcome with emotion, often in a good way.

          my point is that need to provide justification for what is figurative vs literal, otherwise it's just arbitrary cherry picking to "read" the way you want.

          April 14, 2014 at 3:14 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          MidwestKen,
          When Jesus says that "I am the door," he's not saying that He has hinges, a knob, and is made of wood is He?
          When the Bible talks about a "circ.umcision of the heart," it's not talking about some kind of heart surgery is it?
          No, the figurative language is used to depict real ideas, only in language that presents a picture to the hearer. We do this today, for sure, and although the ideas behind the symbolism may change, making hermeneutics difficult in some cases, but it is not impossible.

          Take a look here to get a very brief look...

          http://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-symbolism.html

          April 14, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @theo phileo,
          Oh please, did I say the bible can't or doesn't use figurative language? No.
          The problem is arbitrarily declaring which pieces are figurative and which are literal.
          In your example you are saying that one or two sentances in the midst of 20 others are literal. What is your justification for those two exceptions?

          April 14, 2014 at 4:14 pm |
        • The Answer is 42

          I find the mental gymnastics that Theo Philio constantly performs to appear absolutely correct in all things to be very entertaining. I have never seen a person so unwilling to concede a point, even when so clearly in error.

          April 14, 2014 at 8:53 pm |
    • tallulah131

      A well-dressed man knocked on my door Saturday morning and handed me an invitation. There was a drawing of Jesus on the invitation. He looked like a well-groomed, white hipster. I compared that to an invitation from the same group that I received a few years ago, where Jesus closely resembled actor Dermot Mulroney. One has to wonder why this group is so afraid to show Jesus as he really would have been - a middle-eastern jew.

      April 14, 2014 at 1:09 pm |
      • Akira

        Dermot Mulroney? Lol.

        April 14, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
        • tallulah131

          I kid you not.

          April 14, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
  9. Doc Vestibule

    The KKK's stated goal is to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible".
    They are joined in their mission by other white supremacist Christian terrorist groups like the Aryan Nations, Aryan Republican Army, Phineas Priesthood, and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord.

    These groups are the vestiges of late 19th and early 20th century popular Christian ideologies.
    Up until the latter half of the last century, their terrorist activities were undertaken with the tacit approval of a significant percentage of the population and sometimes with the explicit support of law enforcement agencies in the southern states.

    Of course, today's mainline Christians disavow the tartan – but it wasn't long ago that the Klan were considered True Scotsmen.

    April 14, 2014 at 8:56 am |
    • Theo Phileo

      Of course, their terrorism pales in comparison to that of men like Abraham Lincoln who sanctioned open war against US citizens – Exhibit A, The Atlanta Campaign.

      But what you've got to understand, Doc, about the "no true scotsman" argument is that it is only valid if there are no standards against which an individual can be judged. In the case of Biblical Christianity, there is a standard, and that is the Bible. Read it, and you will find no justification for the church to spread the gospel by the sword.

      Of course, men all over the globe have used the Bible for their own devices, but that speaks against the men and their schemes, NOT the Bible. A gun is only dangerous in the hands of a wicked or unwise man. My guns have never harmed anyone in all the decades that I've been using them, and they can do no harm all by themselves. It takes someone with intent or lack of foresight to use that gun in a manner that can do harm to others.

      The Bible is not meant as a weapon against men, only a weapon against evil. We teach the gospel by word of mouth, not by violence. And any who would use violence to spread the gospel does not belong to Christ.

      April 14, 2014 at 9:41 am |
      • MidwestKen

        Unfortunately, the bible is subject to interpretation and does not provide a "standard" in any practical sense.

        April 14, 2014 at 10:17 am |
      • Doc Vestibule

        @Theo
        We've had the discussion before about the doctrine of "cognite intrare".
        I understand that your interpretation of scripture doesn't agree with Saint Augustine's, but you cannot deny that forcible, violent conversion has been justified as righteous by some of the most influential theologians in the history of Christendom.

        April 14, 2014 at 10:18 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          "but you cannot deny that forcible, violent conversion has been justified as righteous by some of the most influential theologians in the history of Christendom."
          ------------
          Oh, no, I'm not denying that at all. What I am denying is the idea that it is taught in the Bible. And to prove that wrong, you would have to find a command to the church to spread the word by the sword.

          April 14, 2014 at 10:28 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          The traditional arguments include:
          "Compel people to come in!' By threats of the wrath of God, the Father draws souls to the Son."
          – Luke 14:23

          "He (Jesus) said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
          – Luke 22:36

          April 14, 2014 at 10:32 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          "The traditional arguments include:
          "Compel people to come in!' By threats of the wrath of God, the Father draws souls to the Son."
          – Luke 14:23
          --------------------–
          Yeah, I've heard those before too. But when people wield the Bible in such a way so as to justify violence, they do so in opposition to the meaning of Scripture. In the parable, the word "compel" is used to mean "beg" or to "pursuade." It can't be to "force" someone, or it would ruin the analogy of the joyous occassion of a wedding feast.

          The "threats of the wrath of God" comment is intended to show that we preach the WHOLE council of God, sparing nothing. And the Bible certainly teaches of the wrath of God, and for some, fear can be a good motivator. After all, isn't the fear of prison a good way to deter crime?

          "He (Jesus) said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
          – Luke 22:36
          -------------------–
          This one is often taken out of context. Jesus is intending for self defense only. We know this to be true because when in the garden, Peter pulls out his sword to slay the soldier about to take Jesus, and cuts off his ear, what does Jesus say? "Put away your sword, for those who live by the sword will also die by the sword."

          The Bible explains the Bible to those who are willing to read.

          April 14, 2014 at 10:49 am |
        • MidwestKen

          @Theo phileo,
          That is your interpretation.
          Ther are others.

          April 14, 2014 at 11:25 am |
      • Rick

        "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible".

        Where did you get that from, your rear end?

        It's no secret that the kkk's goals are to establish white supremacy along with advancing racial segregation. Those tools motivation is not fuelled by religion but is rather fuelled by an unhealthy attachment to racism.

        Get your facts straight before you spew nonsense.

        April 14, 2014 at 11:00 am |
        • Rick

          That was addressed to Doc vestibull.

          April 14, 2014 at 11:11 am |
        • midwest rail

          I'm sure that your intentional misspelling of his screen name was done with all the Christian love you could muster, right ?

          April 14, 2014 at 11:23 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          I got that from their own statement of principles.
          Pastor Thomas Rob, the current KKK leader, says:
          "Keep loving your heritage and keep witnessing to others that there is a better way than a wor torn, violent, wicked, socialist, new world order. That way is the Christian way – law and order – love of family – love of nation. These are the principles of western Christian civilization."

          "People forget that the twin pillars upon which this nation was built are race and faith. In spite of the teaching of secular humanism, Modernism, and liberal theology, Biblical Christianity (The Old Time Religion and the Faith of our Fathers) is based on racial principles."

          April 14, 2014 at 11:24 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Rick
          No rebuttal or additional name calling?

          April 14, 2014 at 12:15 pm |
        • Rick

          Not sure if you are deliberately obtuse or just twisting "their" goals.

          You quoted kkk's goals as: "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible", when clearly
          this organization's hatred is fuelled by "racism" which you deviously omitted and gave it your own personal slant,
          to make it look like this hatred was fuelled by religion.

          Your futher clarification did not cite the source for kkk's goals as,
          "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible", which makes you a liar.

          It is a well established fact that kkk's hatred and dehumanizing behavior is soley fuelled by racism.

          April 14, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Rick
          Source for original a.ssertion:
          "Dictionary of Antisemitism from the Earliest Times to the Present"
          – Robert Michael, Philip Rosen

          Source for quotes in second posting: The Klan's own .org site as well as their own redirect to
          KKK.BZ/?page_id=240

          Who is a liar again?

          April 14, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Incomplete URL for the second citation
          It's actually:

          kkk.bz/main/?page_id=240

          The exact quote can be found in the closing paragraphs for their "Special Message For Fellow Christians"

          April 14, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
        • Akira

          Shrug. It is well known that racists use the Bible to justify their bigotry...kind of unsure why some on wouldn't know that...or possibly think that the KKK wouldn't.

          April 14, 2014 at 4:56 pm |
        • fortheloveofellipsis

          "It's no secret that the kkk's goals are to establish white supremacy along with advancing racial segregation. Those tools motivation is not fuelled by religion but is rather fuelled by an unhealthy attachment to racism."

          Ricky, look up the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention and get back to me about this shizzle of yours...

          April 14, 2014 at 5:25 pm |
        • Rick

          Third party opinions are not 'stated goals' for a organization, as you originally claimed in your OP, LIAR!

          Whether you like it or not, this organization's hatred is fuelled and motivated solely by 'racism' .

          April 14, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
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