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June 12th, 2014
09:14 AM ET

One priest killed, another injured at Catholic church in Phoenix

(CNN) - A shooting at a Catholic church in Phoenix left one priest dead and another one in critical condition, authorities said early Thursday.

A 911 call came in about 9 p.m. Wednesday local time from the Mother of Mercy Mission Catholic Church, said Sgt. Steve Martos of the Phoenix Police Department.

One of the victims made the call about the attack, which Martos described as a burglary.

The Rev. Kenneth Walker, who was killed on Thursday, and the Rev. Joseph Terra, who remains in critical condition, both belonged to the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, a Catholic community founded in 1988 that trains priests and celebrates the traditional Latin Mass.

In a statement, the fraternity said:

We ask for your prayers for the repose of the soul of Fr. Walker and that God might grant great consolation to his family and his parishioners in this terrible tragedy. Fr. Walker was ordained a priest in 2012, and was 28 years old.

Oremus:

O God, Who didst give to thy servant, Kenneth, by his sacerdotal office, a share in the priesthood of the Apostles, grant, we implore, that he may also be one of their company forever in Heaven. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

FULL STORY

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Catholic Church • Guns • Houses of worship

soundoff (457 Responses)
  1. kenmargo

    Rick Perry latest brainless "oops" belief that being gay is a choice is now being picked up by other bigots. Gay people got here the same way straight people got here. So If children are gifts from god, gay children are gifts from god also.

    When do people make this "choice". I don't recall being asked my preference. I don't recall filling out a form.

    When it comes to s3x, It's what you're comfortable with. NO ONE will do something that's uncomfortable to them. There are species of animals that have gay s3x also. Didn't god create gay animals also? So lets stop acting like gay people come from some far away planet.

    June 19, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      There are species of animals that have gay s3x also. ahh and there are animals that practice inc est and cannibalism...I guess that should be ok based on your argument..NOT..typical of naturalist evolutionsitic thinking...sure..we are "animals" but we are different..we are self reflective...can think in absteract,, etc etc...even apes and monkeys dont do this!

      June 19, 2014 at 7:25 pm |
      • kenmargo

        I got news for ya pal, there are people that practice incest and eat other people. As long as the people practicing incest are adults, there isn't a law to stop it. Cannibalism isn't needed here because fortunately food is pleantiful (for some of us) I'm sure cannibalism has been/still practiced by cultures in other parts of the world (Thankfully)

        I hate to bring this up to you. The scietific name of the human species is HO'MOsapiens. Wonder why?

        We are a species of animal period. Being "self reflective" doesn't prevent us from doing dumb things. (Creating enough bombs to blow up earth 10x over. Even apes and monkeys don't do that.)

        June 19, 2014 at 7:43 pm |
      • Akira

        even monkeys and apes don't do this
        Monkeys and apes display gay behavior all the time. Among other mammals.

        http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

        Be sure to click on the birds, insect, and other creatures of nature that display this behavior.

        The incest/cannibalism is a red herring and has nothing to do with the conversation, although cannibalism and incest occur in nature all the time.

        June 19, 2014 at 8:19 pm |
      • igaftr

        Kermit
        You are confusing the physical act with the base instinctual attraction.
        That is a common error, and is used as an argument against nature.
        It is an argument out of ignorance.
        Some people can choose to override their basic instinctual attraction, but it will always be there, and it is not ever something that is chosen.

        June 21, 2014 at 9:17 am |
        • kermit4jc

          not at all...you cannot seperate one from another....you have one person...thats the whole person....both the act and being are sinful..it is not what God intended and its the peoples choice....

          June 21, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
        • igaftr

          kermit
          You certainly can seperate the basis instinctual attraction from the act.

          If I were tied, and forced to have $ex with a man, The act could be completed with no attraction, even repulsion.. Also, some may gain pleasure from another individual, but not be attracted to them.

          You need to take some psychology refresher courses.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:26 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I never admitted otherwise.....the attraction has not been proven to be genetic..or something one is born with.....in fact I have a list of what authorities says in these matters (APA,, etc) who all admit it is not conclusive that genetic factors determine if a person is gay or not.

          June 22, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
        • Doris

          kermit: "it is not what God intended"

          That is your opinion. Other believers have different opinions.

          June 22, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • Akira

          Why are these things found in nature if it were not natural?

          http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

          Please check out the links to birds, insects, and fish that display gay behavior, also.
          Is this not nature as God intended?

          June 22, 2014 at 4:51 pm |
        • igaftr

          Every recent study I look at there are two things that keep popping out. These are studies published this year.
          They each agree, that genetics plays a role, approx 40% is related to genetics, but that is not the only factor.
          The other thing they agree on, is that it is not a choice, the same as it is for hetero$exuals.

          Those who keep claiming it is a choice....examining the evidence for that we find......(crickets)

          June 22, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I think you fail to see tha tthey do NOT conclusively state that...they say it MAY be...it is POSSIBILITY...that doesn't like very sure to me...sorry..Ill get you quotes from APA and such...and show you the language they use..NO ONE has CONCLUSIVELY shown that homs exuality is genetic or they are born with it...im goi ng to have to get the quotes later as I cannot find the specific website that I had several days ago....later tonight

          June 22, 2014 at 5:12 pm |
        • igaftr

          kermit
          What YOU fail to see is that the most advanced studies agree that genetic plays a roll, and it is not a choice. YOU concluded it is a choice.
          How did you arrive at that conclusion? You took no information at all, and came to your conclusion, and declared yourself right.
          Learn some things kermit. Get some education.
          You are judging people based on nothing...your ignorance.

          June 23, 2014 at 8:15 am |
        • kermit4jc

          what YOU fail to see is even the adbanced studies say that genetics MAY play a role..what YOU fail to see is the word "may" and then you make it that it is conclusive....IM sorry..thatis NOT fact. Read those studies again and take off your bias blinders...and look at words like "may" "perhaps" and think that sciuence does not make conclusive decisions based on those words. I suggest YOu take yourown advice and learn some things

          June 23, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
  2. Akira

    From the American Psycological Association explained in very easy-to-understand language that even the average teenager can understand:

    http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.pdf

    Why reparative therapy doesn't work and why it is an abomination:

    http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html

    June 19, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
  3. Akira

    So dismiss it, Kermit. That's fine. It remains a valid point that goes with the experience of being gay, but you may certainly dismiss it without having any merit if you so choose.
    People do not "choose" to be gay. Nobody "chooses" the gender they are attracted to; it's a part of their biological being.
    Gay people (and straight , for that matter) can "choose" TP quash their natural inclinations, but that doesn't make one any less gay, or any less straight.

    June 19, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
    • igaftr

      kermit
      If you are right and being gay is a choice, then you can test it. For a month, choose to be gay. You do not have to act on it. Choose to be attracted to your gender, and be repelled by the opposite $ex. Go ahead. If you are correct, you can choose to go right back.
      5 minutes of trying to choose to be gay should convince you that it is not possible to make that choice.
      Go ahead Kermit...should be a simple matter of choosing, right.?
      There are some that do choose to engage in various $exual behaviors, but that really does not mean the base instinctual attraction is chosen.

      June 19, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        Go ahead Kermit…should be a simple matter of choosing, right.?<–I never said it was a SIMPLE matter..I suggest you read more of my posts before youcomment..as I said this more than 5 times already..itis a PROCESS

        June 19, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • igaftr

          If it is a process, then you msut have all of the steps in that process, right?...By all means, show us this alleged process.

          Show me the process that a 5 year old boy insists on being refered to as female and treated as female, completely on his own. He was doing this since he was 3, so did not have the cognitive ability to make decisions...simply has always been this way. He is one of my cousins kids. Show me how your process applies to a 3 year old.

          June 19, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          No kermi, it is not a process. When are you going to stop being intellectually dishonest? There are parents who will tell you that they knew when their child was young...it's not taught, it's not something these people can switch on and off; it's not a phase...it has to do with genetic coding to a point and for you to continue to deny the evidence that points to this only shows your bigotry. Without the use of religion you'd have no reason to deny the evidence but as long as you have that book that you require to get by in this world, you will never see the facts for what they are. The true benefit is that voices like yours are not being listened as much any more and soon enough, your ilk will have lost this battle also.

          June 19, 2014 at 2:05 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          There are parents who will tell you that they knew when their child was young<-parents are not scientists...and they dont speak for the kids...the kids can say it for themselves....seems more like desperation to add parents in this as you did..and being a priocess does NOT mean it is something they can switch onandoff..its NOT that siole..WHY do I keep repeating myself? do you opeople READ ALL my posts or skim?

          June 19, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • Akira

          The process of maturation is when one's inherent gender attraction will come out.
          It's not a conscious choice on the individual's part; it is innate to who they are.
          It will continue to be repeated until it is understood that it is natural to the person born that way, that it is not a choice.

          June 19, 2014 at 2:19 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Either are you a scientist, so their opinion is just as valid as your opinion is and they are the ones raising the children. In most cases parents do speak for underage children. Being a bigot is a choice, being LGBT is not.

          June 19, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
        • igaftr

          kermit
          The child I mentioned I have known since birth, and his parents ARE scientists. No process, nothing to study. The child has always ben the way he is.

          You mentioned a process, then tap danced around the answer.
          Again, You mentioned a process, what is it?

          June 19, 2014 at 2:22 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          the child YOU mentioned has issue of being TRANGENDER...not gay..again two different isues! its not tap dancing at all

          June 19, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
        • igaftr

          When he is older, and starts to date boys...people will call him gay.
          Putting a different label on him does not change the FACT that it is not a choice.

          June 19, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
        • Akira

          How is being transgendered NOT a choice but being gay somehow is?

          June 19, 2014 at 3:12 pm |
        • igaftr

          kermit
          You claimed process, and again you deflected. ANSWER THE QUESTION. What is the process you mentioned?

          June 19, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          i suggest you read my posts rather than skim them.IO said the process is not a one size fits all....people are individuals....some processes are different than others..depending on the triggers! Sheesh..you want to simplify the human mind and psychology

          June 19, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
        • igaftr

          You idea that it is a choice and a process is based on what exactly?
          And Sheesh, don't use terms you are not ready to explain

          What are some of the steps in this "process", even if there are different factors, the steps in any process would be the same, so.....

          June 19, 2014 at 3:40 pm |
        • Akira

          Again, how is being transgendered NOT a choice but being gay somehow is?

          June 19, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I NEVER said it was NOT a choice! WHERE you getting that cr ap from???? ARe you NOT reading my ENTIRE posts???

          June 19, 2014 at 7:20 pm |
        • Akira

          Kermit,
          So you think being transgendered is a choice?

          June 19, 2014 at 7:24 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          yes..being transgendered is a choice..i never said otherwise...

          June 19, 2014 at 7:31 pm |
        • Akira

          Kermit, you never said one way or another. Hence, my question.

          June 19, 2014 at 7:49 pm |
        • igaftr

          kermit
          You STILL have not given any of the steps in the process, any of the stages. Surely there must be some framework that is common to all in this "process" of yours. By all means, you've had MANY chances to come up with it....or are you simply avoiding the answer because there IS NO SUCH PROCESS, and you can't admit you are wrong?
          Pretty sure that is what I am taking away...

          June 21, 2014 at 9:21 am |
        • igaftr

          kermit
          Still no process. no steps, no stages?
          Where is the process you mentioned?
          anyone?
          Bueller?

          June 22, 2014 at 5:02 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I don tknow the process..btu I DO know its NOT a one time thing..again to say such would make the mind simplistic...LOGIC says such psychological issues are not simple..but coml;ex..and a one time decision is not part of reality ......just because I don't know the process doesn't mean it isn't there.....its complex..period...not simple

          June 22, 2014 at 5:14 pm |
        • igaftr

          kermit
          You don't know the process but it is there. You don't know there's a god,but he's there.

          You are talking out your a$$. That is what I know.

          June 23, 2014 at 8:08 am |
        • kermit4jc

          so it is like we have to know everything about it in order for it to be true..so are you saying IM talking out of my a$$ when I say I do not know HOW a plane flies, yet I know it does?? YOur reasoning is foolish. Second..i DO know there is a God..Don't speak for me please. And as I said in last post, LOGIC tells me that choice making, especially concerning s exual in nature requires not ONE choice...but a series of decisions..a process. YOU are trying to make the human brain and psychology too simple. Face reality, the mind is not that simple/

          June 23, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
        • igaftr

          More silliness kermit.

          I never made any decisions at all about my attraction. What are you basing that on?. Every single bit of research I examine, does not mention this at all (likley because it doesn't work that way)
          And I am keeping things simple for you.

          What are you basing your "choice" hypothesis on?

          June 23, 2014 at 3:36 pm |
      • Akira

        And concerning the transgendered children, you repeated it was a process, and also said,

        the child YOU mentioned has issue of being TRANGENDER...not gay..again two different isues! its not tap dancing at all

        I agree, they are different aspects of human se.xuality.
        This is why they are included in the LGBT subset of human se.xuality.
        So, my question, that has remained this far unanswered, is if you think being transgendered is a choice consciously made.
        And if you do, why would a young child make such a choice without fully understanding the ramifications of such a "choice".

        June 19, 2014 at 7:38 pm |
        • Akira

          Kermit cross-posted, and rendered my post moot.
          Apologies.

          June 19, 2014 at 7:47 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          and who says the 5 year old actually was making an actual choice....sounds more like a whim type thing to me....he cannot fully grasp it...in other words he is "playing"

          June 20, 2014 at 2:02 am |
        • Akira

          Actuak scientists and psychologists who know better than to insert personal opinion and religion in making a Dx.

          June 20, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      Again..no CONCLUSIVE scientific evidence (you try to reason this out, yet you avoid scientific evidence-how ironic...we do same thing with Christianity, but people like you say we are adding and spinning and making up stuff)

      June 19, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
      • Akira

        No conclusive evidence can be shown why most people are born hetero, either; from that we can conclude that there is no active choice in the matter.

        June 19, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          quite the opposite..if we are not born gay or hetero..then obviously we ChOOSE it..cant have your cake and eat it too akira

          June 19, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • Akira

          Nope. Sorry. One cannot control what gender one is attracted to.
          One doesn't even find out until that maturation process of the body begins.
          One is attracted to the gender they are attracted to. It is as simple as that.

          June 19, 2014 at 2:01 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          all I see is your opinion nothing more..no scientific evidence

          June 19, 2014 at 2:12 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Sure you can Akira, just ask Rick Perry.

          The State of Texas can even help. They'll reimburse your 'pray away the gay' program as a 'medical expense'. It's about the only medical expense that Texas is willing to pay for.

          http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/yv2g56/gaywatch-texas-edition–remember-the-no-homo

          June 19, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
        • Akira

          I saw that.
          He's absurd.

          June 19, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
      • Akira

        all I see is your opinion nothing more..no scientific evidence

        As you are.
        And you're certainly welcome to your opinion that being gay is a conscious decision the brain makes while their body says otherwise.
        As if gender attraction is a choice.

        You missed the boat by not asking, as a psychologist, when your beloved cousin made the conscious decision to be a lesbian.
        I think the answer may have surprised you.
        May she rest in peace.

        June 19, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      God really hates people who choose to be left handed.
      You have a choice not to act on your wicked left-handedness and live a godly life!
      "A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left."
      – Ecclesiastes 10:2

      "The right hand of the lord doeth valiantly, the right hand of the lord is exalted."
      – Psalm 118 vv15,16

      Better start using that right hand before Judgement day or you'll be sorry!

      June 19, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        are you actually taking that left handed junk seriously? it has nothing to do with being left handed or right handed

        June 19, 2014 at 2:31 pm |
        • Akira

          Indirectly, it does.
          One doesn't choose which hand feels more natural to them to write with, either.
          It's innate to them. It's the way they were built physiologically.
          Just as gender preference is.

          June 19, 2014 at 3:01 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Regardless of what is pointed out, kermi will never change his mind about this issue sadly. To claim love for his cousin but yet think she was sinning is not love. To say it is god who would judge her shows no compassion for her-to even wish judgement when according to the belief system judgement for being LGBT is hell, is immoral.
      I'm curious as to how kermi, a child psychologist see's the following stats as being acceptable given that he feels the way he does about the issue:
      "Reliable estimates indicate that between 4 and 10% of the population is gay, which means in a public school system of more than one million, like New York City's, there are at least 40,000 to 100,000 gay students.

      Schools should be a young person's primary center for learning, growing, and building a foundation for success in the world. Growing up and getting through high school can be challenging for any student, but LGBT youth too often face additional obstacles of harassment, abuse, and violence. The statistics are astounding:

      Academics
      ◾LGBT students at schools with comprehensive policies on bullying and harassment are much more likely to report harassment to school authorities who, in turn, were more likely to respond effectively.
      ◾LGBT students are twice as likely to say that they were not planning on completing high school or going on to college.

      Health
      ◾Gay teens are 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide and 5.9 times more likely to report high levels of depression compared with peers from families that reported no or low levels of family rejection.
      ◾LGBT youth who reported higher levels of family rejection during adolescence are three times more likely to use illegal drugs.

      Family & Shelter
      ◾Half of gay males experience a negative parental reaction when they come out and in 26% of those cases the youth was thrown out of the home.
      ◾Studies indicate that between 25% and 50% of homeless youth are LGBT and on the streets because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
      ◾LGBT youth are overrepresented in foster care, juvenile detention, and among homeless youth.

      Harassment & Violence
      ◾Nearly a fifth of students are physically assaulted because of their sexual orientation and over a tenth because of their gender expression.
      ◾About two-thirds of LGBT students reported having ever been sexually harassed (e.g., sexual remarks made, being touched inappropriately) in school in the past year.
      ◾The average GPA for students who were frequently physically harassed because of their sexual orientation was half a grade lower than that of other students."
      (http://www.pflagnyc.org/safeschools/statistics)

      None of this can be deemed acceptable and only stands to prove how divisive some of kermi's ilk like to make things. We are seeing progress in regards to these bigots voices being silenced because fortunately it is a Secular country and not all remain ignorant.

      June 19, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        how is saying one is sinning a nonloving thing..are youtelling me that people cannot be judged for actions anymore? so when a judge sentences a man tpo prison for stealing..thats unloving? come on...seems like double talk to me...that's dishonesty.....

        June 19, 2014 at 3:07 pm |
        • Akira

          One needs to step back from the religious lens and look at it through a physiological lens.

          June 19, 2014 at 3:14 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        btw haraas s ment is a side issue I agree with you...no har ssing of anyone...regardless of issue (if they are gay, or such) is acceptable

        June 19, 2014 at 3:08 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        Sin is strictly biblical and is not real. It has no pertinence in the real world and no judge in their right mind would tell a person they are sinning. Being judged by a human is different than being judged by a non-proven deity. You're such an ignorant bigot and a horrible person...you should be ashamed of yourself.

        June 19, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          you still have not shown how it is horrible and not good

          June 19, 2014 at 3:28 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          How is it wrong? Set down the giant book of fables and look at it from the outside...do these people pay taxes? Do they scream about you being hetero? Is what they do in the privacy of their own homes being done at your expense? Do they have higher stats in crime than others? What harm are they to society?
          Do you understand that there are Christians who are gay?
          Stop being intellectually dishonest...you have nothing on your side and everything against you and yet you still deny the facts for what they are. Being LGBT is not a choice but you being a bigot is.
          Proving you are a horrible person takes little when you believe your cousin was sinning for having been born a lesbian.

          June 19, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I still dont see why you think it i shorrible..is it because YOU think that saying they are sinning for being gay makes them less human? WHAT is it??

          June 19, 2014 at 7:18 pm |
        • Akira

          Sin has no place in the psychiatric/psychology/medical fields. If one cannot separate their religious views from the practical sciences, they should not be in these fields.
          It's one reason why doctors do not diagnose diseases as being demon infested, and being gay was taken out of the DSM as a mental illness. Because we know know better.

          June 20, 2014 at 12:16 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          @truthprevails You’re such an ignorant bigot and a horrible person…<-I have yet to see any reason why I am horrible and bigotted....what does my belief havethat makes me horrible? I dont say someone is worthless when they sin....if thats what you might imply.....so tell me..how am i horrible?

          June 20, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
  4. kermit4jc

    we never really talked about it

    June 18, 2014 at 5:46 pm |
    • observer

      kermit4jc,

      It's likely that MILLIONS of gays say they were born that way. Since "you know THEIR life", how do you KNOW they are ALL LYING or DELUSIONAL?

      June 18, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        did I ever say they are lying or delusional? they may not truly know..or in denial, to accept what science says is "fact" so as to justify their own behaviors..FACT..science has NOT conclusively shown that gays are born that way.

        June 18, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
        • Akira

          You have stated that some choose to be gay. This is doubtful. If they choose one gender over another because they were equally attracted to both, they would be bi. And that is different from choosing to be gay.
          One cannot turn gender attraction on or off. You are either attracted to the opposite gender, or you aren't.
          The negative connotations that have been ascribed to the gay community virtually assures that being the target of hatred and bigotry by people is not a choice; especially to excuse their behavior.
          It is part of who they are as a person, Kermit, much as being hetero is a part of who you are.

          June 18, 2014 at 6:09 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          One cannot turn gender attraction on or off. You are either attracted to the opposite gender, or you aren’t.
          <-I have already addressed this..the using of the switch is wrong here..becauyse as I said..its not a one time thing..like flipping on the switch..its a process....as for the negative stuff....we cannot use that to prove it is not a choice..otherwise I can turn that right around and say we are Christians by birth...not by choice...we get taunted and all by others as well. thus to use the argument "they dont choose to be beaten, and humiliated" does not work

          June 18, 2014 at 6:14 pm |
        • Akira

          Religious affiliation and gender preference are two wholly different things; they are not comparable within the concepts of human physiology at all.
          One can choose to convert to Christianity; that is a belief system.
          One does not choose the gender they are attracted to.

          June 18, 2014 at 6:21 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Religious affiliation and gender preference are two wholly different things; they are not comparable within the concepts of human physiology at all.
          One can choose to convert to Christianity; that is a belief system.
          One does not choose the gender they are attracted to.<–read my post again please..my POINT is that one can NOT use the argument "they do not choose to get beaten and killed" cause the same thing happenes to us and we can use that excuse as well..its a weak argument

          June 18, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
        • observer

          kermit4jc,

          Since "you know THEIR life" as opposed to the idea that ANYONE could know YOUR life, how do you KNOW they are not telling the truth about THEIR lives and experiences?

          Do you have degrees in psychology or are you a great mindreader?

          June 18, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          serisouly..are you actually READING my posts? i did NOT say I know or not.i did not even IMPLIED they are lying or such....sheesh....lay off this man ok? its pointless...youre making something out of a misunderstanding...thanks

          June 18, 2014 at 6:34 pm |
        • observer

          kermit4jc,

          You have stated that being gay is a DECISION. Millions of gays say they were born that way. You got immediately defensive when the subject of someone knowing your life, but have no problem claiming they are wrong which requires you knowing more about their lives than them.

          June 18, 2014 at 6:43 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          not at all...you assumed that JUST because I didntknow the exact moment..that I am making a weak argument for my case...IM offended that a "smart" person woud assume such logic..only goes to show it seems to me that you are grasping at straws and trying to look tolerant of other peoples lifestyles

          June 19, 2014 at 1:51 am |
        • Akira

          Kermit, it goes hand in hand with the folk who INSIST that gay is somehow a choice a person makes.
          Nobody would knowingly choose to be hated and reviled; beat up, spit on, legislated against, etcetera.
          These things are very real and prevalent in the gay world, and nobody would knowingly choose that.
          It is not a weak argument; it is the reality of many who are gay.
          Being gay isn't a choice; it is who they are.

          June 18, 2014 at 6:43 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Nobody would knowingly choose to be hated and reviled; beat up, spit on, legislated against, etcetera.<-so then..using SAME logic..Chriatinaity really isn't a choice either.....we would not knowingly choose to be hated, reviled beat up and spit on, and even murdered for it....

          June 19, 2014 at 1:53 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          kermi: Belief is a choice, it is not natural. Belief is a thought process that is taught, kind of like math and spelling.
          Not many Christians are 'in the closet' due to their belief. You're being intellectually dishonest when the evidence to support LGBT being natural is vast and yet you still deny it.

          June 19, 2014 at 4:14 am |
        • Akira

          Kermit,
          Choosing to be gay isn't an option. One is either born gay, or not.
          Choosing to be Christian is totally voluntary. One can choose to be Christian, Muslim, follow Judaism, Budhism, and so forth.
          I don't know how I can make it any clearer to you.
          If you are trying to say that both are persecuted, yes, that is true. As are the a Jewish, the Muslim, the Budhists, etcetera.

          However, trying to conflate being gay with a religion is a non-sequitur.
          If you prefer to think that you were born Christian, that's perfectly fine.

          You didn't choose your sexuality. You did choose to follow Christ.

          June 19, 2014 at 12:19 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          youstill missed the point..NO ONE can use the argument "gays don't choose to be persecuted, beaten up or killed" cause I CAN use that with Christianity....the fact is..science has NOT concluded that one is born gay! There is still too much disagreement on that. With that being said I reiterate..I CAN use the logic to Christianity if you wanna use that argument

          June 19, 2014 at 12:22 pm |
        • Akira

          I didn't miss the point.
          You don't like that argument, so you dismiss it. That's fine.
          It is, however, germane to the argument that nobody chooses to be gay.

          June 19, 2014 at 12:27 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          yes..I don't like your argument because it don't work..again not choosing to be beaten and killed is NOT Proof it is NOT a choice! It is a very weak argument...and if anyone has to use that..then it shows they got NO scientific proof that people are born being gay..if there is so much evidence to being born gay as people claim..they would nOT have to resort to using "they don't choose to be beaten up and killed etc"

          June 19, 2014 at 12:38 pm |
        • Akira

          You may certainly dismiss that argument, however, that is a reality for many gay people. Who were born that way. Through no fault of their own. Because being gay isn't a choice. It is a part of their biological make-up, inasmuch as you being hetero is a part of yours.
          Do you think you can suddenly decide to be gay? To turn off your natural inclination to be attracted to the opposite gender?
          No?
          Then why do you imagine people born gay can?

          June 19, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Do you think you can suddenly decide to be gay? To turn off your natural inclination to be attracted to the opposite gender?
          No?<-–I said this several times already..no one soddenly decides either way cause it is a PROCESS..not something where one morning you wake up and say "IM gay" still that does not prove one is born that way

          June 19, 2014 at 1:10 pm |
        • Akira

          Yes, it is a process. The process of maturing physically, or growing up, if you will.
          You did not decide to be hetero. Gay people did not decide to be gay.
          The same process that made you hetero is the same process that made them gay.
          Glad we agree on that.

          June 19, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          yet you have not shown they are born with it

          June 19, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • Akira

          How does one go about proving they were born hetero, Kermit?

          June 19, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          huh? If one is not born gay..then obviously one is not born hetero either.....choice....

          June 19, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
        • Akira

          Nope. Not choice. I used that as an illustration to your assertion that there is no way to prove being born gay is a choice, because it is not, any more than there is any way to prove that being born hetero is a choice.
          You are hetero because your body reacts in a seual manner to members of the opposite gender.
          A gay person reacts that way to a member of the same gender.

          Which won't be known, obviously, until one starts the maturation process.

          June 19, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          still no scientific or psychological back up from you.....

          June 19, 2014 at 1:53 pm |
        • Akira

          *se.xual manner. HTML fail.

          June 19, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • observer

          kermit4jc,

          You have stated that being gay is a DECISION. Millions of gays say they were born that way. You got immediately defensive when the subject of someone knowing your life, but have no problem claiming they are wrong which requires you knowing more about their lives than them.

          So how do you KNOW that they aren't telling the truth? Mind-reading? Advanced psychology degrees? Are they lying? Are they delusional?

          You still haven't answered. Why do you THINK you know more about their lives and experiences than they do so you can PRETEND they are telling a lie?

          June 19, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          You got immediately defensive when the subject of someone knowing your life<-OK..if Yuo are NOT going to READ the ENTIRE posst of mine..then forget this discussion! I did nOT say such a thing....this is result of you SKIMMING my posts..i made it very clear..im NOT going to repeat myself!!

          June 19, 2014 at 7:22 pm |
  5. kermit4jc

    @ hotair...you stupid jerk, she died from ovarian cancer..how frigging rude of you!!!!

    June 18, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      i am offended in the way you presented it....plus that this is a DEAR cousin of mine..we grew up together...so you got to understand the way you present it sounded offensive and without regard to feeling...She had no feelings of alienation, she was accepted by everyone in our familuy and in her work place..in FACT, the police dept (she worked as a correctional officer) helped to put new roofing on her house when she was sick and recovering and couldnt pay to have leaks and such repaired. She attended special events of mine (wedding receptions, etc) with no hard feelings or such

      June 18, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
      • Akira

        I am sorry about the loss of your beloved cousin.
        Actually, the lesson learned is that lesbians are no different than hetero women except in the gender of who they are attracted to. That is a good lesson learned by all who have read this account with the idea that gay folks are somehow to be demonized because of their gender preference, so I thank you for making that point with the anecdote about her.

        June 18, 2014 at 6:16 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          right..see, i treated her with love and respect, whereas some in these blogs have accussed me of bigotry and hatred..and as I have shown, and my cousin would have agreed...she felt no hatred or condemnation from me. She did not feel worthless, rather she felt worth..NOT because of being gay, but despite it, knowing her worth did not come from that. but that she was made by God.

          June 18, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
      • Akira

        Every human deserves dignity and respect, regardless if they are gay or straight. That also goes for the gays one is not related by blood to.
        That respect extends to equal rights for our gay brothers and sisters. When people stop actively working to prevent that, progress will have been made.

        June 18, 2014 at 6:25 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          yes..agreed...i was only using my cousin as an example..I dont get to socialize with gays much...I know many personally....just dont socialize with them....had one who was a roomate and we did not know he was gay till after he was arrested and moved out for fraud (he was a pathological liar-had nothing to do with his being gay) he pretty much avoided me cause of his being found out to have lied and cost me and another roomate s thousands of dollars in hpne calls that he blamed my best friend on, etc etc..he eventually died of AIDS

          June 18, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      kermi: Ever heard the saying "two wrongs don't make a right"?

      June 19, 2014 at 4:20 am |
    • Akira

      Kermit, another Christian poster, Rainier Helmut Braendlein, posits:

      By the way, the former German foreign secretary Mr. Guido Westerwelle is just chastised by the Godhead: He suffers from leukemia (cancer of the blood).

      It depends on Westerwelle how things will turn out. If he repents, believes in Jesus, and refers to his infant baptism (I imply that he got baptized as an infant), he will experience deliverance, forgiveness AND cure. If he remains stubborn, his disease will become a curse for him, and he will face physical death and eternal death.

      By his logic, God visited cancer upon both this man and your cousin because they were gay.
      I disagree with his stance completely and totally
      Do you agree or disagree with RHB?

      June 22, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        I canot say one way or another...cause Id like to get full context of what he has to say..but as for me....ALL have sinned..and calamities come upon all people...even my cousin does not have one sin....but yet we ALL die..doesn't matter if it is trhu cancer or even old age...sin corrupted the world and we die....I do know also that God allows consequences to happen...like if I murdered someone..I will pay the consequences here...ie going to jail or get the death penalty..

        June 22, 2014 at 5:07 pm |
        • Akira

          Here is the full stand alone post, for context
          By the way, the former German foreign secretary Mr. Guido Westerwelle is just chastised by the Godhead: He suffers from leukemia (cancer of the blood).

          It depends on Westerwelle how things will turn out. If he repents, believes in Jesus, and refers to his infant baptism (I imply that he got baptized as an infant), he will experience deliverance, forgiveness AND cure. If he remains stubborn, his disease will become a curse for him, and he will face physical death and eternal death.

          Mr. Westerwelle has a male partner, that means that he is gay.

          How long did Westerwelle play the achiever, but now he is brought low by the divinity.

          When questioned on the following statement, If you face a severe disease like cancer then regard this as God's education who uses the disease as a rod to chastise you, sot that you may not get lost, but get saved. Together with forgiveness God will give you cure – it is up to you. about what sin children who are diagnosed with cancers had commited to deserve such a hellacious punishment, he was silent.

          June 22, 2014 at 5:23 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          God works for the good in ALL things .....everything has some kind of outcome. I don't know about chastisement..I doubt he would use that to chastise someone..but God would use that for other things..maybe to help the person grow...I don't know since we are all individuals.

          June 23, 2014 at 1:52 am |
  6. new-man

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbjVWrRGyHU&w=640&h=390]

    Eternal life is not just what you have after your spirit leaves your physical body. Everlasting life is what you have right here right now.
    And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), Whom You have sent.

    June 17, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
    • igaftr

      Another advertisement for your belief.
      Odd, you haven't mentioned the preists who were harmed, nor the fact that they have a suspect in custody.
      Not a word.

      June 18, 2014 at 10:43 am |
  7. new-man

    Grace And Peace Multiplied To You
    2 Peter 1:2–3 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,

    Imagine if God were to visit you in a dream tonight and ask you what He could do for you. What would you say to Him? Would you ask Him to give you a deeper knowledge of Jesus our Lord?

    God’s Word tells us that when you receive revelation in the knowledge of Jesus, it will cause grace and peace to be multiplied in your life. It will cause you to receive all things that pertain to life and godliness.

    What is grace? It is the unmerited, unearned and undeserved favor of God shown to us. There is nothing we can do to earn God’s grace. But the more we learn of the beauty and love of our Lord Jesus, the more we see His perfect work on the cross, and the more we position ourselves to receive a multiplication of God’s grace in our lives.

    The verse says that peace too, is multiplied to us through the knowledge of Jesus our Lord. The peace of God sets our hearts free from fear, stress, worries, anxieties and cares. Wouldn’t you want to have the peace of God presiding over your heart always?

    God’s divine power has given us all things that pertain not just to godliness, but to life as well. Wouldn’t you say that health, money, a good job and a nice home for your family pertain to life? Well, all these things and everything else which God has already given is released to you through the knowledge of Jesus our Lord.

    So let’s ask God every day, “Father, give me wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Jesus.” For to know Jesus is to have grace and peace multiplied to us. To know Jesus is to receive all things pertaining to life and godliness!

    Thought For The Day: The more we see Jesus and His perfect work on the cross, the more we position ourselves to receive a multiplication of God’s grace in our lives.

    JPM

    June 17, 2014 at 1:09 pm |
    • igaftr

      Another advertisement for your belief.
      Odd, you haven't mentioned the preists who were harmed, nor the fact that they have a suspect in custody.
      Not a word.

      June 17, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
    • G to the T

      2 Peter = Pseudopigraphy

      I would try to rest the basis of my arguments on books of the Bible with less of a chance of being later forgeries in Peter's name.

      June 17, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.