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June 20th, 2014
10:18 AM ET

Presbyterians vote to allow same-sex marriage

(CNN) - The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted Thursday to allow pastors to marry same-sex couples in states where it is legal.

The church also voted, by an overwhelming majority, to change the language about marriage in the church constitution to "two persons" from a "man and a woman," according to More Light Presbyterians, a group that supports gay rights.

To take effect, that change would need to be approved by a majority of 172 local presbyteries, which have a year to vote, the church said in a statement.

However, starting Saturday, pastors can go ahead and begin marrying same-sex couples in the states that allow it, according to Toya Richards Jackson, a church spokeswoman.

"The church affirmed all its faithful members today. This vote is an answer to many prayers for the Church to recognize love between committed same-sex couples," said Alex McNeill, executive director at More Light Presbyterians.

FULL STORY
- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Uncategorized

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soundoff (710 Responses)
  1. ddeevviinn

    tal

    Let's see, this "unfounded bronze age biases" informs me to: love my neighbor as myself, love my enemies, do good to those who do you evil, to be gentle, kind, forgiving, compassionate, long suffering, patient, to feed the hungry, care for the poor, adopt orphans, love my wife as christ loved the church, to not be malicious, greedy, envious, a slanderer, gossip, liar, not be ba ngin my neighbor's wife or stealiln his stuff or kill in him, and on and on it goes.

    Now juxtapose this against what I find everyday on CNN and Fox news: Crisis in Syria, crisis in Iraq, crisis in Ukraine, ethnic cleansings, civil war, Nigerian girls kidnapped, genocide, rampant political corruptness, routine daily gun violence in our own "civilized" country, school shooting, and on and on it goes.

    Yes, our modern, civilized societies are fairing so well. What do we need with unfounded bronze age morality?

    June 22, 2014 at 10:11 pm |
    • ddeevviinn

      Sorry tal, I meant this for a previous post.

      June 22, 2014 at 10:12 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      I think what God asks me to do is challenging. Loving our enemies? When someone steals from us, offer them help? Help those who wrong you?

      June 22, 2014 at 10:17 pm |
      • ddeevviinn

        And if you are anything like me, and I know you are in that you are a human being, what you KNOW theoretically doesn't always play out in practice.

        June 22, 2014 at 10:23 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Oh, yea. It is a good ideal to try and live up to. But I often fail. Especially if I've been harmed.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:58 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Devin, you ignore all the evil that has been done in the name in your religion,and the evil that is still being done in the name of your religion. You are being disingenuous.

      Sure some sects of christianity have changed and adhere less to the bible. They had to. Otherwise chrstianity could not survive in the mainstream. But when you take the most orthodox christians, the problem with your bible rears its ugly head again. Christians who adhere strictly to the bible are still burning "witches" in Africa. Leviticus is still being used by some christians in this country to oppose equal civil rights for gay people.

      You have simply cherry picked which rules of the bible apply to you in order to reconcile your christianity with modern morality. The closer you get to true biblical adherence, the closer you get to burning witches.

      June 22, 2014 at 11:38 pm |
      • ddeevviinn

        No tal, not ignoring or cherry picking at all. Unlike yourself, I am simply not equating the actions of individuals who claim to be proponents of a faith with that of the faith itself. Consider the analogy of the Presidential Oath or the vows of law enforcement. The President promises to the best of his ability to uphold, defend and protect the U.S. Consti tution and to faithfully execute the office of the Presidency. In the same way police officers promise to maintain a certain level of integrity and perform certain duties. Needless to say, this hasn't always been the case. In fact, there have been both Presidents and law enforcement officers how have failed atrociously in maintaining their oat and vows. Point is, there lack of forti tude in way changes the truthfulness of the oath or vow. Same is true of Christianity.

        Now you can be content with defining christian theology in terms of Old Testament Levitical Law, which seems to be quite en vogue these days with the skeptics, or you could " get closer to orthodox biblical adherence" by considering this idea found in both the New and Old Testaments that proclaims, " Love God with your whole heart , soul, and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself.

        June 23, 2014 at 12:39 am |
        • tallulah131

          The bible say that you shouldn't suffer a witch to live. So are you killing witches?

          Of course you're cherry picking. That's how the modern christian reconciles the bible with current morality of the society in which they live. The horrific morals of the bible are not secret or hidden. They are there for all to read. You cannot hide the fact that you are picking and choosing which laws of the bible you wish to enforce. All you are doing is making excuses.

          June 23, 2014 at 3:12 am |
        • ddeevviinn

          " So are you killing witches ? "

          I haven't as of yet, much in the same way I haven't offered animal sacrifices, stoned my children, mistreated my slaves. or abstained from the all you can eat shrimp fest at Red Lobster.

          You are stuck on a specific way in which God dealt with a specific group of individuals in a specific time for a specific purpose. What you label "cherry picking" I call knowing how to read literature within its historical, grammatical, context. Now I have to laugh at those who always come back and say " you christians are always claiming you need to understand context" as if that is something bad. But context NEVER allows for changing of morality, it only allows for how that lack of morality is dealt with ( You really need to read that previous line a second time, it is crucial).

          The path that your logic is traveling down is similar to a kid who takes a Calculus course and refuses to progress after a certain point. His first week he learns that y' is a symbol for a single derivative. The following week he learns that y" represents the second derivative and y (n) represents the nth derivative. He can't get past his initial understanding of y' and refuses to accept any additional information that will allow further progress.

          June 23, 2014 at 5:49 am |
      • 316yohana

        You talked about Africa! I am an African and here we still need God. Any remnant from that other side who needs to follow the world of God as it is? "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt 7:21). Anglican parishes from your side of the world have recently opted to be under African dioceses that are still willing to honor the world of God as it is. the truth never changes even if many people opt to reject it. If some African societies are burning witches this has nothing to do with the bible. they were just doing it before they heard of the Bible. A witch was burnt not because of his religion or beliefs but bcz the community considered him a a criminal (see the definition of a witch)

        July 4, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
        • 316yohana

          You talked about Africa! I am an African and here we still need God. Any remnant from that other side who needs to follow the word of God as it is? "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt 7:21). Anglican parishes from your side of the word have recently opted to be under African dioceses that are still willing to honor the world of God as it is. the truth never changes even if many people opt to reject it. If some African societies are burning witches this has nothing to do with the bible. they were just doing it before they heard of the Bible. A witch was burnt not because of his religion or beliefs but bcz the community considered him a criminal (see the definition of a witch)

          July 4, 2014 at 12:09 pm |
  2. Dalahäst

    My church finds participating in Reconciling in Christ helpful to moving forward with this issue. I hope the Presbyterians have a similar program.

    June 22, 2014 at 9:38 pm |
    • fintronics

      Reconciling in Christ = force fitting mythology into modern realities.

      June 23, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
      • Dalahäst

        No it doesn't.

        June 23, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      It's too bad that so many other sects consider inclusive congregations like yours to be apostates.
      What's even worse are those who claim to welcome LGBT members but whose real motivation is to shame them into "praying away the gay" (hello LDS!).

      June 23, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
      • fintronics

        Yea, we'll change them! make them see the light! the error in their ways!

        June 23, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
  3. austin929

    @Blessed are the Cheesemakers

    seems to me austin you predicted a tonado would wipe out a town within 60 miles NW of Licoln. The town that was hit (Pilger) is about 100 miles almost directly north. Will you admit you are wrong now?

    ...........ok, this storm tracked directly through Raymond with baseball sized hail, the town I did name, and then developed into the tornado n.w. of lincoln in pilger. how west is west? its definetely north and west, and correct, it was outside of 60 miles but still, I was going off of a dream and in my opinion, I was not wrong. what are the chances? seriously?

    June 22, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
    • austin929

      next question..........do you recall that i told you that i had a dream about this about six months ago now?

      June 22, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        I remember you made this claim yes. But I wasn't impressed then and I am not impressed now. The chances of tornados striking this area is very high. And the fact you want to call this a "hit" when you specifically said it would be within 60 miles is rediculous.

        You really need to look up "confirmation bias".

        June 22, 2014 at 8:56 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        And that storm did not track through Raymond. That storm built up north of Pilger, expanded and moved east. I live in the general area and I was watching the progression of that storm on radar. You are not being honest.

        June 22, 2014 at 9:20 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Glad you're okay. I was watching the storm alerts in the midwest on the weather channel while we had a coincidental and massive lightning storm in my (completely unrelated) area. I can't imagine who helpless it must feel.

          June 22, 2014 at 11:41 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Thanks Tal,

          I was never in any real danger, I was north of that storm by about 100 miles. But there have been plenty lately here too. I just watched that storm because it did not move, it just built and expanded.

          My fun was hauling carpet out of my brothers wet basement while he was away on vacation.

          June 23, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
    • midwest rail

      " what are the chances? seriously? "
      In the tornado belt, pretty dam.n good. Seriously.

      June 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm |
      • tallulah131

        I picked the first two horses to finish the Kentucky Derby this year. One of them was a long shot. What are the chances? Really?

        I must be a prophet. (Of course, I neglected to bet on the long shot and instead gave the name to a friend. My friend made money. I did not.)

        June 22, 2014 at 11:47 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Deuteronomy 18:10
      Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets OMENS, engages in witchcraft,

      June 22, 2014 at 7:19 pm |
      • austin929

        1 Corinthians 14:1 ►

        Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

        1 cor 12
        7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

        June 22, 2014 at 7:26 pm |
        • austin929

          2 Corinthians 12:2 ►

          I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know–God knows.

          June 22, 2014 at 7:28 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Thanks for demonstrating the ever-changing non absolute nature of your religion and it's origins, rules, laws, and changing commands of your deity. We KNOW, as I told you before, during the Apocalyptic period the opinions and values of Judaism changed, which is why the gospel writers used their omens. BTW, posting Babble quotes proves NOTHING, unless FIRST you demonstrate their authority. You have not gotten around to that, now have you ?

          June 22, 2014 at 7:40 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know–God knows

          We know he had a hallucination. He admitted it. He said he got his gospel from no man. He hallucinated it. He said so.

          June 22, 2014 at 7:41 pm |
        • austin929

          bucky , due to the nature of the n.t. gift, I have no authority.
          1 Thess 5
          . 20Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22reject every kind of evil.

          old testament prophets received direct revelation.

          I am no prophet.

          June 22, 2014 at 7:56 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "old testament prophets received direct revelation"

          Prove it.
          Than explain why at least half of them were wrong.
          You do have a gift. It's called BSing. Nothing more, Church Lady.

          June 22, 2014 at 8:21 pm |
    • tallulah131

      There is an average of over 50 tornadoes in Nebraska every year. Predicting a tornado in Nebraska is akin to predicting an earthquake in Japan.

      June 22, 2014 at 7:44 pm |
      • austin929

        i see your point. I agree. but on the other hand if i say n.w. of lincoln, then there are 8 segments of direction we are talking about .

        I was not wrong. at least you can not say that I was wrong, and i did have the dream when i posted it last winter. I find it interesting.

        June 22, 2014 at 7:58 pm |
        • tallulah131

          You said within 60 miles of Lincoln. Pilger is almost twice the distance. It is also in the heart of tornado alley. Basically, you predicted that there would be a tornado in an area where tornadoes frequently occur. You might as well have predicted that there would be an earthquake in Japan.

          June 22, 2014 at 8:07 pm |
    • rogerthat2014

      What would your reaction be if you had a dream that the Bible is nothing more than a literary train wreck?

      June 22, 2014 at 8:09 pm |
    • observer

      austin929,

      Do you recall that I pressured you many times to make an OFFICIAL prediction and you steadfastly REFUSED?

      You also claimed it would hit Raymond and I think you said in March or April.

      This Monday morning quarterbacking is exactly why I asked you for the official prediction which you were totally UNWILLING to do.

      June 22, 2014 at 8:37 pm |
  4. Vic

    God, out of His Love & Grace, did not leave us to our own devices to be saved, rather, He took charge.

    John 1:16,17
    "16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ." (NASB)

    John 3:16,17
    "16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." (NASB)

    Ephesians 2:8,9
    "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." (NASB)

    p.s. It is interesting that at the same General Assembly in Detroit, the PCUSA also voted —310 to 303— to divest from Motorola Solutions, Caterpillar and Hewlett-Packer, a net worth of about $21 million in stock shares, on the basis of doing business inadvertently aiding unfair Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, but without boycotting Israel. That's another high profile, political however, issue.

    Early on:
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/06/20/presbyterians-vote-to-allow-same-sex-marriage-2/comment-page-2/#comment-3032225

    June 22, 2014 at 2:03 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Of course the judgmental nature of your god is the one thing that creates the need for "salvation". Basically, your religion creates the need for salvation, then creates the mechanism for salvation – one that requires that you pledge yourself to that religion. If it did not have that protective patina of religion, you could easily see it as a con job.

      Once you step away from religion, you see that there is no need for salvation. One does not really need a 2000 year old book to be a decent person and to live a fulfilling life. One does not need salvation when there is nothing to be saved from.

      June 22, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
      • truthfollower01

        Tallulah,

        "a decent person"

        What makes one a descent person? Who says? On atheism, if Hitler thought he was a decent person, was he wrong?

        "and to live a fulfilling life."

        This is an honest question and I mean no disrespect, but do you have any hope? At the end of the day, if you think about it, what hope is there on atheism? How does this not bother you (if it doesn't)? Do you block it it out and try not to think about the end?

        June 22, 2014 at 5:10 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Hitler. who was baptized and confirmed as a catholic, slaughtered millions of jews with the blessings and help of the overwhelmingly catholic and lutheran population of Germany. Perhaps you should learn something about your examples before you try to use them.

          June 23, 2014 at 3:18 am |
        • tallulah131

          And by the way, if you need to believe in a mythical afterlife to live a fulfilling life, you're doing it wrong.

          June 23, 2014 at 3:19 am |
      • Akira

        Just so the definition of hope is clear:
        hope
        hōp/
        noun
        1.
        a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
        2.
        (archaic)

        a feeling of trust.

        verb
        1.
        want something to happen or be the case.

        Hope is a human condition.

        June 22, 2014 at 7:32 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          Hope

          1. A wish or desire accompanied by confident expectation of its fulfillment.
          2. Something that is hoped for or desired.
          Success is our hope.
          3. One that is a source of or reason for hope.
          the team's only hope for victory.

          June 23, 2014 at 12:41 am |
        • observer

          truthfollower01,

          Hope is not a necessary component of morals. Many non-believers want to do what is best for mankind and make the world a better place with their presence rather than a worse one..

          June 23, 2014 at 12:49 am |
    • Vic

      "Hewlett-Packard"

      June 22, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
    • tallulah131

      No honest need for salvation.

      June 22, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
    • Vic

      Also to remember, even under the Law, before the "Dispensation of Grace," the Lord Jesus Christ set a high standard for passing judgement, which He knew is impossible, but to set a precedence:

      John 8:7
      "7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”" (NASB)

      June 22, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
      • tallulah131

        Your religion creates the need for salvation, then creates the mechanism for salvation – one that requires that you pledge yourself to that religion. If it did not have that protective patina of religion, you could easily see it as a con job.

        June 22, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
      • Vic

        "to set a precedent:"

        June 22, 2014 at 3:37 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "Salvation" was invented by the Way sub-sect of Jews (Christians) because when the end-times failed to occur as they all expected, including Jebus and Paul, they needed a justification to keep the new cult going. It's very non-"Biblical". The Jews were not waiting for someone to save them from sin. The JOB of the messiah was to restore the Kingdom of Israel, and boot out the foreigners. No one accomplished that. When Jerusalem was completely destroyed after the Bar Kochba revolt, the Jews could not believe the world just went on as though nothing happened. They were devastated. "Spiritual purification" is a Zoroastrian/Mithric concept, not a Hebrew ("ritual" purification) concept. Jesus never said "Just wait, I'll be dying for your sins". They cooked all that up MUCH MUCH later during the long process during the cooking-up/invention-from-wholecloth of Christianity. Read the proceedings of the councils, and watch it happen.

          June 22, 2014 at 7:30 pm |
        • austin929

          isaiah 59:16
          King James Bible
          And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

          give me a break, the old testament is full of prophecies about a savior.

          June 22, 2014 at 8:12 pm |
        • austin929

          71. Psalms 22:1...Forsaken because of sins of others...2 Corinthians 5:21
          72. Psalms 22:1...Words spoken from Calvary, "My God..." Mark 15:34
          73. Psalms 22:2...Darkness upon Calvary...Matthew 27:45
          74. Psalms 22:7...They shoot out the lip and shake the head...Matthew 27:39
          75. Psalms 22:8.." He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him "...Matthew 27:43
          76. Psalms 22:9......Born the Savior......Luke 2:7
          77. Psalms 22:14...Died of a broken (ruptured) heart...John 19:34
          78. Psalms 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mark 15:34-37
          79. Psalms 22:15........He thirsted........John 19:28
          80. Psalms 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....John 19:34,37;20:27
          81. Psalms 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Luke 23:34,35
          82. Psalms 22:18.....They parted His garments.....John 19:23,24
          83. Psalms 22:20,21...He committed Himself to God...Luke23:46
          84. Psalms 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's heel.. Hebrews 2:14
          85. Psalms 22:22.....His Resurrection declared.....John 20:17
          86. Psalms 22:27...He shall be the governor of the nations...Col 1:16

          June 22, 2014 at 8:15 pm |
        • Vic

          @June 22, 2014 at 7:30 pm |

          The Lord Jesus Christ foretold His Death and Resurrection many times.

          Here are some references:

          Matthew 16:21-28, 17:22,23 & 20:18,19
          John 2:19

          Also, didn't you know that the infamous "John 3:16" is in the Lord Jesus Christ's own words?!

          June 22, 2014 at 11:23 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Your religion creates the need for salvation, then creates the mechanism for salvation – one that requires that you pledge yourself to that religion. If it did not have that protective patina of religion, you could easily see it as a con job.

          June 22, 2014 at 11:27 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Yes. But the JOB of a messiah was to re-establish the KINGDOM, not take away sins. Try taking a class someday.
          And BTW, what WORDS EXCATLY are being translated as 'savior" ?

          June 22, 2014 at 11:54 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          And every single one of the following prove my point. Prophecy was not fortune-telling. Omen reading was forbidden.

          1. Psalms 22:1...Forsaken because of sins of others...2 Corinthians 5:21
          72. Psalms 22:1...Words spoken from Calvary, "My God..." Mark 15:34
          73. Psalms 22:2...Darkness upon Calvary...Matthew 27:45
          74. Psalms 22:7...They shoot out the lip and shake the head...Matthew 27:39
          75. Psalms 22:8.." He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him "...Matthew 27:43
          76. Psalms 22:9......Born the Savior......Luke 2:7
          77. Psalms 22:14...Died of a broken (ruptured) heart...John 19:34
          78. Psalms 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mark 15:34-37
          79. Psalms 22:15........He thirsted........John 19:28
          80. Psalms 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....John 19:34,37;20:27
          81. Psalms 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Luke 23:34,35
          82. Psalms 22:18.....They parted His garments.....John 19:23,24
          83. Psalms 22:20,21...He committed Himself to God...Luke23:46
          84. Psalms 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's heel.. Hebrews 2:14
          85. Psalms 22:22.....His Resurrection declared.....John 20:17
          86. Psalms 22:27...He shall be the governor of the nations...Col 1:1

          June 22, 2014 at 11:56 pm |
  5. Akira

    Rainier states: If you face a severe disease like cancer then regard this as God's education who uses the disease as a rod to chastise you, sot that you may not get lost, but get saved. Together with forgiveness God will give you cure – it is up to you.

    Your depraved indifference to children with cancer is reprehensible.
    Get help for your innate sociopathic cruelty. You are ill.

    June 22, 2014 at 1:15 pm |
    • tallulah131

      To call Rainey a dick is an insult to dicks.

      June 22, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
      • Akira

        Words can't describe Rainier...I can't even...

        June 22, 2014 at 7:33 pm |
  6. Doris

    Rainy: "Jesus Christ is still ready to set free gays from their gayness."

    LOL

    Rainy: "God has a very understanding for the depravity of our human nature we have inherited from our parents and finally from Adam and Eve. God knows that we sometimes feel inclinations which we would not dare to confess publically."

    LOL – way to speak for God, dou.chebag.

    Rainy: "I consider gays as people who are seduced by Satan who made them believe that gayness is a predisposition like being lefty."

    LOL – when trying to make a point, and one god is not enough, by all means involve as many as you need. (eyeroll)

    Rainy: "gays have to accept that their inclination is a consequence of Adam's fall who degenerated after the Fall. This inclination doesn't belong to man as he or she was genuinely created by God. Gayness and other sins are a result of Adam's submission to the powers of death and destruction."

    Ah – well here's your problem, Rainy. You have a preconceived notion associating gayness with sin. Christians, of course are in great disagreement with each other over that – which doesn't say much for their individual claims of "divine moral truths".

    Rainy: "Conclusion: blah blah blah – more stuff about sin and that gayness is a disease and – blah blah blah"

    Here's my conclusion, Rainy – you're a bigot and a pretty disgusting one at that. How easily do you think people can be fooled by your inane attempts to put on a friendly face while espousing your twisted opinions about gays based on your interpretation of Gullible's Travels?

    And by the way, Rainy – since you are always so hyped up on "sin", why don't you invite awanderingscot over for some mutual flagellation? I would think if you two made a concerted effort to double down on self-deprecation, according to your strange beliefs, you would be guaranteed first class seats to that big dungeon in the sky.......

    June 22, 2014 at 12:12 pm |
  7. observer

    Here's the EXTREMELY IMPORTANT verse from the Bible that the hypocrite RAINER HELMUT BRAENDLEIN completely IGNORES -:

    Matthew 7:12 “Treat others as you want them to treat you. THIS IS WHAT THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS ARE ALL ABOUT.”

    June 22, 2014 at 11:20 am |
  8. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    Jesus Christ is still ready to set free gays from their gayness. God has a very understanding for the depravity of our human nature we have inherited from our parents and finally from Adam and Eve. God knows that we sometimes feel inclinations which we would not dare to confess publically.

    I don't hate gays, and I would never harm a gay man or woman. On the contrary, I consider gays as people who are seduced by Satan who made them believe that gayness is a predisposition like being lefty. To some extent it is even true that gayness is a predisposition. It is only that we should be aware that this predisposition belongs to our sinful nature, to our general inclination to sin, to do, what God has prohibited. Gayness is not a neutral predispositon like being lefty. Being lefty is morally neutral like being small or ugly, black or white, clever or stupid, etc.

    Of course, to some extent it is true: "They are born with it!" like "sam stone" would say. Yet, gays have to accept that their inclination is a consequence of Adam's fall who degenerated after the Fall. This inclination doesn't belong to man as he or she was genuinely created by God. Gayness and other sins are a result of Adam's submission to the powers of death and destruction.

    When Jesus died for us on the cross he has borne our sin. He has resurrected in order to sanctify us. Through faith in Jesus we can become partakers of a new, divine nature which can gradually suppress our bad old nature, if we daily accept again the humble dwelling of Jesus in us through the Holy Spirit.

    The locus in space and time, where we get connected with the releasing power of Jesus death and resurrection, is sacramental baptism or the rebirth out of Water and Spirit. There we die for the sin, and enter Christ. Dead for the sin, and being in Christ, we are able to overcome the bad inclinations of our body.

    Conclusion: God doesn't hate gays, but he wants to set them free. Every gay who accepted the freeing through Jesus Christ, will come through at Judgement Day.

    If you face a severe disease like cancer then regard this as God's education who uses the disease as a rod to chastise you, sot that you may not get lost, but get saved. Together with forgiveness God will give you cure – it is up to you.

    Who is God's enemy?

    Those are the people trying to justify or legalize gayness. That is a crime against God. That is much worse than being gay. That is a sin of the spirit, very severe. Such a people should be aware that God will chastise them very hard, and they will face no peaceful future here and beyond.

    The legalization of any misbehaviour is the great crime of our time. That will not work, God will educate us by any means.

    Read what really matters, and ignore the posts of the brain-dead trolls.

    May God cure ill America!

    June 22, 2014 at 8:17 am |
    • igaftr

      A reading of any of your posts shows with certainty, the illness is in you, rainman. Stay out of America. We don't need your anti-everything rants.

      June 22, 2014 at 8:29 am |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        We don't need America!

        June 22, 2014 at 9:53 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Oh my, if that is how you feel then feel free to stop commenting on an American Companies Blog. Your brand of hatred is offensive to our species.

          June 22, 2014 at 9:59 am |
        • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

          The show is over. Nobody worldwide still believes that you are a nation in God. No more credit.

          What is worse? Modern America or the old Caliphate. Hard to decide.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:03 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          And there lies your biggest issue! Our world is not a nation of any god. Our world is a nation of humans to name the one species that inhabits this planet. We are all equal at a base level regardless of belief or disbelief. It is how you treat your fellow human that matters.
          You sadly use the divide and conquer crap and that in itself is detrimental to our species. Stop being such a cold-hearted ass and show some compassion for your fellow man....you'd be amazed at how good it feels to drop the hatred and learn to truly love but for you to do that would mean you'd have to face the actual truth of how immoral your belief system is and I doubt you'll ever escape that horrid life.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:11 am |
        • Akira

          Rainier, people see you as the hypocrite you are when bashing America whilst taking advantage of its freedoms to say those things using American websites.
          That you want Munich renamed after the IG Farber-Bayer company tells all just what a good "Christian" you aren't.
          Buy a diary. Please. The reception to your lies and bigotry will be lessened by 100%, as you are only vanity writing anyhow.

          June 22, 2014 at 11:51 am |
        • Doris

          Rainy: "Nobody worldwide still believes that you are a nation in ...."

          Well, at least we can say the buffoon is consistent about something. Not only does he speak for his god, but he also speaks for the world... (eyeroll)

          Perhaps the best example the dictionary could provide for sanctimoniousness or self-righteousness would be from any of Rainy's posts.

          June 22, 2014 at 12:09 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          That's not what your grandparents said when your Christian countrymen and women allowed Hitler to wreak his hovoc, you ungrateful, patheitc fool.

          June 22, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • observer

          Rainer Helmut Braendlein

          "We don't need America"

          America doesn't need any more ignorant bigots.

          The land of Hitler is welcome to you.

          June 22, 2014 at 1:17 pm |
        • Akira

          Rainier has one of the ugliest hearts I have ever come across on this blog.

          June 22, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Sorry you fool. Jebus MADE gay people the way they are. You DO realize what you're saying I hope.
      You saying you think the human experience of se'xuality is one of choice. That means YOU choose to be straight, and continue to, daily. Thanks for telling us you're bis'exual Rainey dear, but that's too much information.

      Science in 2014 knows se'xuality is not a choice, and there is no "cure" for it. Dangerous ignorant fools like Rainey go around preaching this crap, and teenagers DIE and commit suicide as result of this complete nonsense.

      Rainer is a danger to children. His nonsensical crap religion should be banned.

      June 22, 2014 at 9:27 am |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        Blah!

        June 22, 2014 at 9:53 am |
        • Athy

          That was your most intelligent comment so far, Rainey.

          June 22, 2014 at 11:10 am |
        • realbuckyball

          Thank you for demonstrating you have no answer for this.

          June 22, 2014 at 1:15 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Same old hate, same old delusions. Seek help Rainy, that stone-cold heart of yours is not Christian love but pure evil.

      June 22, 2014 at 9:32 am |
    • James XCIX

      Rainer – "...I consider gays as people who are seduced by Satan..."

      Since you're reposting the same ideas, I'll repost my earlier reply, to which you didn't yet respond, in the hope of receiving a response this time.

      I assume you believe you have been tempted by Satan to do countless things that you believe to be sins. I'm also assuming that you don't think you've ever been tempted to be gay. Why do you suppose Satan is not bothering you with that "sin"?

      June 22, 2014 at 10:06 am |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        First tell me, if you have se-x with animals.

        June 22, 2014 at 10:13 am |
        • James XCIX

          No, nor do I feel any inclination (temptation?) to do so.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:14 am |
        • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

          Then, I suppose you had had se-xual intercourse with your mother and your sister. Ain't I right?

          June 22, 2014 at 10:21 am |
        • James XCIX

          No. Please get to your point, hopefully answering my question as you do so.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:22 am |
        • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

          You prefer aliens?

          June 22, 2014 at 10:24 am |
        • James XCIX

          So, you have no answer?

          June 22, 2014 at 10:26 am |
        • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

          I suppose you like children. Too much?

          June 22, 2014 at 10:29 am |
        • James XCIX

          Rainer, it seems you either don't have an answer, and all you are doing is making my point for me.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:30 am |
        • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

          Keep on playing with yourself!

          June 22, 2014 at 10:36 am |
        • James XCIX

          So Rainer, do you feel Satan has ever tempted you to have s-ex with animals, your mother, sister, aliens, or children? If not, the same question is begged: Why is Satan tempting you with countless other sins but leaving you alone regarding these "sins"?

          June 22, 2014 at 10:37 am |
        • Akira

          Rainier, humans are mammals, a sub-set of animals.
          If you have sex with a human, technically you are having sex with an animal.
          Is bestiality going to become another obsession of yours, along with being beheaded?

          June 22, 2014 at 10:24 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          James: Do you seriously think anyone would stoop to Rainy's level and have se</bx with him? I think I'd rather be buried alive.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:42 am |
        • Akira

          Rainier, humans are mammals, a sub-set of animals.
          If you have relations with a human, technically you are having relations with an animal.

          Stop projecting your desires onto James. Shame on you.
          And get some help die your fantasies. They're getting more violent. Wanting your head cut off? Wow.

          June 22, 2014 at 11:12 am |
      • Akira

        Stop acting like an asshole, Rainier.

        June 22, 2014 at 10:37 am |
        • igaftr

          I'm certain he is not acting.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:39 am |
      • TruthPrevails1

        He's making everybody's point. I'm just wondering why CNN hasn't blocked him yet. They don't usually have this much tolerance for such hate. Rainy is not here for conversation. Rainy is a bitter old man who is quite apparently unhappy in this world. He's needs help from professionals and should not be allowed near a computer until he gets that help.

        June 22, 2014 at 10:40 am |
    • observer

      Rainer Helmut Braendlein,

      Education and intelligence is still ready to set you free from ignorant bigotry.

      June 22, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
  9. RayEm

    "It is very beautiful over there!"

    June 22, 2014 at 6:22 am |
  10. glades2

    This story was buried in the weeks news but is very significant – reading the article and looking at the map graphic reminds me of Genesis 18 16-33, when Abraham "counts down" – from 50 (remind you of something) who might be left before the powerful city would feel God's wrath...

    June 21, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
    • onthebeech

      Begs the question whether God will allow the number to go as low as 10?

      June 24, 2014 at 8:56 am |
  11. austin929

    hello?

    June 21, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
    • austin929

      would anyone care to confirm that I predicted from a dream, that a tornado would hit nw of lincoln ne, that is saw multiple tornadoes and insisted it was a vision, and now it has come true.

      the tornadoes hit , ef4, north west of lincoln ne this week.

      June 21, 2014 at 4:44 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        So you heard about this today and had to claim it was a dream? Are you related our bigot Rainy? Both crazy as crazy gets!

        June 21, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
        • austin929

          no truth prevails, i predicted this in around January. dont you remember that?

          June 21, 2014 at 4:50 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          No Austin...why don't you search out the comment and prove to us that you did?

          June 21, 2014 at 4:55 pm |
        • austin929

          The proof is in the pudding. I specifically said, "north west" of Lincoln, i saw multiple tornadoes. and i knew this was a good one because i had all ready been through the same scenario with the Joplin Missouri tornado.

          for what it is worth, i was not wrong.

          June 21, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
        • tallulah131

          There is no pudding, austin. Just you and your delusion of grandeur.

          June 21, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
        • austin929

          Tallulah, did i say that i had a dream about a tornado and it was nw of lincoln?

          was there a tornado nw of Lincoln? Do weather men predict tornadoes in specific locations 6 months in advance?

          June 21, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
        • Akira

          Pull up that post, Austin.
          All I remember is you saying it would be in Nebraska.

          June 21, 2014 at 6:06 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Austin, all you are doing is claiming that you prophesied that tornadoes would hit an area where tornadoes are common. I don't recall such a prophesy, but even if you did make it, it is does not take much foresight to predict something that occurs every year. You may as well predict an earthquake in Japan or predict that an actor will win best actor at the Oscars.

          June 21, 2014 at 6:36 pm |
        • tallulah131

          There is an average of over 50 tornadoes a year in Nebraska. For the record.

          June 21, 2014 at 7:46 pm |
        • observer

          Austin has returned. Yes, he did predict a bad tornado in an area that has frequent tornados. He did mention a town that was not hit, I believe.

          After several efforts to get him to make an OFFICIAL prediction, he REFUSED.

          June 21, 2014 at 8:06 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          seems to me austin you predicted a tonado would wipe out a town within 60 miles NW of Licoln. The town that was hit (Pilger) is about 100 miles almost directly north. Will you admit you are wrong now?

          June 22, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
      • Akira

        Hey, Austin.
        I remember you saying that tornados would hit in Nebraska. I don't recall the exact location, if you gave one.
        Look it up. You can do that through your WP account.
        I will now make a prediction that a tornado will hit Oklahoma this summer.
        We'll see.

        June 21, 2014 at 4:50 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Austin, you know I hope sooth-saying, divination, and omen reading were forbidden in the Bible ?

        June 21, 2014 at 4:54 pm |
        • austin929

          1 Corinthians 14:1 ►

          Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

          June 21, 2014 at 5:01 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Great. The role of a prophet was NOT to tell the future. Thanks for revealing you know nothing about the ancient Hebrew culture. A prophet was a "mouthpiece" to the people of HIS /HER own day. Fortune telling did not become popular until the apocalyptic period.
          Deuteronomy 18:10 "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft".

          Your "prophesy" is omen reading. You are an abomination.

          The fallacy of prophesy as fortune telling.
          The ancient role of a prophet in Hebrew culture was to interpret the words or will of their god to the people OF THEIR OWN DAY. NOT to predict the future. (That's Hollywood's idea of the role of a prophet).
          So you often hear fundies talking about "prophesy", and how various prophesies were a 'foretelling", or prediction of the future, and indeed they count them up as "proof" that Jebus or whatever HAS to be true, as the "prophecy" came true.
          In fact Leviticus forbade fortune telling and divination, so we know it was an abomination to even think in these terms for many/most centuries in Hebrew culture. However, with the rise of Apocalypticism, around the turn of the millennium, this changed somewhat, and is evidenced in many Christian writings, including the gospels, as they adopted the notions absent in ancient Israel, but coming into popular view with the Essenes. In terms of Hebrew culture, and the "telling of or prediction of" the future, was unknown, and forbidden, and not at ALL a view of the major prophets themselves. However in the the new view, certain "hidden meanings" or "pesherim" began to be looked for, in the practice of Midrash. The name for this is called "pesher", (or seeking a "hidden meaning"), which was not even known to the original speaker/writer, but only "revealed" later to certain believers. Originally, the (plural) "pesherim" were only fully revealed to the Son of Righteousness, (the leader of the Essenes), and the idea was first found and fully understood after scholars read the Dead Sea scrolls, and was a sub category of "Midrash", (or study of the texts).
          wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesher
          wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash
          jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...15650.html
          Thus we see that "prophesy" as fortune telling as began to be practiced in Judaism around the First Century, (and picked up by Christians and the gospel writers), really was a very late invention and never a classical part of Hebrew scripture, or understanding, either interpretation, or intention, and certainly was not the function of the ancient office of "prophet", in Hebrew culture, who was to be a "mouthpiece" to the people of their own day, and not Madame Zelda with her crystal ball.
          infidels.org/library/modern/r...html#proof

          June 21, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
        • austin929

          I am not Jewish.

          1 corinthians 12

          4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same
          7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

          June 21, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
        • austin929

          did Elijah say there would be a drought ?

          there is a difference between the old testament direct revelation and the new testament fallible gift.

          "test what is good", and there is an interpreter for the N.T. gift.

          1 Thesselonians 5

          20Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22reject every kind of evil.

          June 21, 2014 at 6:00 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          You are not Jewish, yet you feel quoting Jews to be proof of something. How very odd.
          There are as many so called "failed" prophesies as there are claimed true ones. Anyone can hit a certain percent.
          You have no proof anything was "revealed". But you have demonstrated ignorance of the time and culture. Jesus was a JEW. In 400 AD St. John Chrysostom was STILL tell his "Christian" congregation to STOP going to the synagogue. In 100 AD the Expulsion Curses were REQUIRED by the High Priest, to rid the synagogues of the new cult called "The Way" (see Acts of the Apostles). They were JEWS.
          http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies

          June 21, 2014 at 6:32 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "there is a difference between the old testament direct revelation and the new testament fallible gift."

          Says who ? Provide a scholarly reference.

          June 21, 2014 at 6:33 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          did Elijah say there would be a drought ?
          -- Yes he did. And who did he say that to ? HIS OWN contemporaries, as "advice" to the people of HIS OWN DAY.

          June 21, 2014 at 6:52 pm |
      • doobzz

        I predict that a professional sports player will be arrested for domestic violence and another will be arrested for DUI. I also predict that a famous Hollywood actress will become pregnant by a man who is married to someone else.

        June 21, 2014 at 9:13 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Hail messiah.

          June 22, 2014 at 9:29 am |
        • igaftr

          Surprisingly, you were correct with the pro sports star. Turns out it was Hope Solo. That was amazing ( even though technically she was arrested before your prophecy was posted, still surprisingly accurate.)

          June 22, 2014 at 12:38 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        Wow austin!!! That is great!!!

        Do you remember you claimed there hasn't been a tornado that size in over 4 years in Nebraska and I showed you there was one last November?

        Have fun with your confirmation bias!

        June 22, 2014 at 4:12 pm |
    • truthinfacts1

      I am going to predict that austin929 is going to post more comments. Holy Geebus I am a prophet! Just have faith in me and send me lots of money and I will ensure you an eternal life of bliss in My kingdom. If you doubt me I will smite you for an eternity of unimaginable suffering and pain. This is how much I love and mercy I have for all my children. It does not matter if you have never heard of me or that there is absolutely no reason or evidence to support any of my claims. You must believe because an ancient collection of books comprised of interpretations of interpolations of heresay rife with contradictions was cobbled together thousands of years ago by those who wanted to dominate poor, illiterate masses.

      June 21, 2014 at 11:16 pm |
  12. Russ

    @ Daniel Burke:
    the headline is misleading. and at no point in this article do you clarify that there are several OTHER Presbyterian denominations in America – NONE of which have made such a declaration (e.g., the Presbyterian Church in America, the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, the Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians, Orthodox Presbyterians, Associate Reformed Presbyterians, etc.).

    while the PCUSA is currently still the largest group as the mainline denomination, it has been shrinking at such an alarming rate (from 3.1M in 1983 to 1.7M last year) – while many of the other Presbyterian groups have been growing – that it has reached a tipping point in comparison with the many other groups.

    at the very least, journalistic integrity requires a clarification (MANY Presbyterians in America HAVE NOT made such a vote).

    June 21, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
    • Akira

      To be fair, the very first sentence states it is the Presbyterian Church (USA).
      That should be sufficient to differentiate from the other Presbyrterian groups.
      That, and the relatively small number of local presbyteries.

      June 21, 2014 at 9:23 pm |
      • Russ

        @ Akira:
        1) your last sentence makes it obvious you don't know what you're talking about... in two ways:
        a) there are many presbyteries
        b) you don't use the word properly
        Presbyteries are the regional governing bodies for groups of churches in a particular geographic region – and there are MANY such presbyteries in each of the several, various denominations throughout America.

        which only goes to support my main point: lack of clarity perpetuates misunderstanding here.

        2) along those lines, saying "Presbyterian Church (USA)" is insufficient for MOST people because it leaves the impression that ALL Presbyterian churches within the stated geography (USA) are included – when that is exactly NOT the case.

        June 21, 2014 at 11:17 pm |
        • Akira

          1) The first sentence of the article says "The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted Thursday to allow pastors to marry same-s.ex couples in states where it is legal."
          2) The third paragraph states "To take effect, that change would need to be approved by a majority of 172 local presbyteries, which have a year to vote, the church said in a statement."
          3) Sorry, but this was clear to me they were talking about one group and not all of the Presbyterians.
          4) You should make your complaint to Daniel Burke at his email addy directly. I'm not sure he writes his own headlines, but it may help.
          5) Have a splendid day.

          June 22, 2014 at 10:17 am |
  13. new-man

    The Gospel – This word “gospel” in the original Greek is a word that was seldom used at the time this was written. Nobody talked this way, because the word literally means nearly-too-good-to-be-true news. It referred to news that was so awesome, nothing really justified using it. Nothing was nearly too good to be true.

    “For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” The Gospel is the power of God, and that’s talking about grace. Acts 20:24 and Galatians 1:6 both use the terms “gospel” and “grace” interchangeably. It’s saying that when you understand the Gospel, or the grace of God, it’ll release the power of God into your life. That’s huge!

    The next verse in Romans 1 says,
    For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    Notice that righteousness is not revealed from Law to Law, from good deed to good deed—it’s revealed from faith to faith. Here’s a good piece of information to consider: Sin won’t stop the power of God for salvation in your life but trusting in your own good works will. That’s what “the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith” means. You receive the righteousness of God by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8)! God won’t withdraw His power because of sin in your life. That’s why it’s nearly-too-good-to-be-true news.

    When you talk like this, people with a religious mindset immediately say, “Well, what about sin? This sounds like you’re just giving people a license to sin.” Not so! Last I checked, people were sinning without a license! I’m not advocating sin. But, see, this is the immediate reaction when you start talking about righteousness by faith. They think you need to make people aware of their sin and the wrath of God.

    June 21, 2014 at 4:27 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Wrong. (So you're supposed to be a scholar of Greek now ? hahahahaha).
      "Euangelion" simply meant "good news". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_gospel

      June 21, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
    • Vic

      Amen.

      June 21, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
    • igaftr

      newman
      Gospel is just a conjunction of "God Spell". People thaught the bible was God's Spell. Still no indication any gods exist or had anything to do with the bible.

      June 22, 2014 at 10:09 am |
  14. Doris

    Rainy: "God cannot stand that.." "God makes..." God wants...." The Bible says..." ... "God says.." .. "God doesn't..." "God also hates..." "We need a Christian emperor..." "The California drought is not due to the gay people living there, but due to all the people there who legalize gay lifestyle."

    Dictionaries should really include portions of Rainy's posts as excellent examples of: self-righteousness and sanctimoniousness.

    June 21, 2014 at 3:43 pm |
    • tallulah131

      or sociopathy.

      June 21, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
      • Athy

        Or outright insanity.

        June 21, 2014 at 9:01 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Rainy belongs in a nut house. He is SO arrogant, he actually seriously thinks he knows the mind of god, and speaks for it.

      June 21, 2014 at 11:26 pm |
  15. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCNIhDC6au4&w=640&h=360]

    May the gay political leaders of California repent, and stop the legalization of gay lifestyle.

    May they realize that God chastises them.

    Gayness is a sin, but the legalization of gay lifestyle is much worse. God cannot stand that. That is more than abomination.

    Stop this, if you want to survive.

    June 21, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
    • Akira

      The drought in Bavaria is directly caused by your hateful bigotry clothed in the misinterpretation of God's word.
      May you repent so that rain may fall.

      June 21, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Oh my...you are crazy.
      Do you get some cheap thrill out of acting like an ass on a public blog? You should be ashamed of yourself and I hope your family is ashamed of you also...you're horrible person.
      If hell is real, there will be a special fire set just for people like you. You belong in an institution where you can be supervised 24 hours a day, not roaming the streets freely...you're clearly insane.

      June 21, 2014 at 4:02 pm |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        Inmates of nuthouses consider ordinary people as insane. That is nothing new.

        June 21, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
        • tallulah131

          You are nothing but a sociopath, Rainey. We know what you are. We laugh at your self-absorption. No amount of human sacrifice will save you from yourself, Rainey.

          June 21, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
        • Akira

          As you know precisely zero about psychology, which is readily apparent in 3/4 of your posts, you are again talking about something you are unqualified to comment about.

          June 21, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
        • igaftr

          I was once commited but I started convincing the doctors they were insane, so they had to let me go.

          June 22, 2014 at 12:47 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      You sound like Hojatoleslam Kazem Seddiqi when he said that earthquakes are caused by "immodestly dressed women".

      June 21, 2014 at 5:14 pm |
    • igaftr

      Rainman
      These people built a city were there was insufficient water for the populace.

      God is not punishing them, nature is for being short sighted.

      By all means, show a direct cause and effect relationship ( you would of course have to include your proof that any such god exists in the first place), otherwise you will be shown to be a complete fool, claiming a cause/effect relationship where no can be shown.

      Show your work.

      June 22, 2014 at 12:42 pm |
  16. Doris

    Rainy: "God makes..." God wants...." The Bible says..." ... "God says.." .. "God doesn't..." "God also hates..." "We need a Christian emperor..." "The California drought is not due to the gay people living there, but due to all the people there who legalize gay lifestyle."

    Dictionaries should really include portions of Rainy's posts as excellent examples of: self-righteousness and sanctimoniousness.

    June 21, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
    • tallulah131

      It's glaringly obvious that Rainey worships himself. Either he's a very involved troll or he is a sociopath.

      June 21, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
      • Akira

        Apparently Rainier has put on his hairshirt pajamas and skedaddled off to bed to sleep the sleep of the self-righteous.

        June 21, 2014 at 5:03 pm |
  17. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4A1IP2N8A&w=640&h=360]

    Stop the legalization of gay lifestyle, if you wish that God lets it rain again.

    God makes the weather.

    June 21, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
    • Akira

      The drought in Bavaria is directly caused by your hateful bigotry clothed in the misinterpretation of God's word.

      June 21, 2014 at 3:45 pm |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        Who is your father?

        June 21, 2014 at 3:47 pm |
        • Doris

          who dropped you on your head when you were young and told you that it was your fault – that you're just full of sin?

          June 21, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
        • Akira

          My father died in 1992. He imparted some wise words that you should heed.
          "Never think for a second that beliefs can make you a good person."

          You are not a good person.

          June 21, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
        • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

          Faith needs the right object, then it is the real faith.

          June 21, 2014 at 4:00 pm |
        • Akira

          Your interpretation of faith is bigoted and hateful, and not at all what Jesus intended.
          If you think that Heaus would applaud what you say, you haven't even begun to understand His message.

          June 21, 2014 at 4:04 pm |
        • Akira

          *Jesus.
          Apologies.

          June 21, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "Faith needs the right object, then it is the real faith."

          -- Of course. we all know, that *just happens* (surprise surprise) to be Rainer's "right object". What an infantile brain.

          June 22, 2014 at 8:19 am |
    • realbuckyball

      No the quote is "God makes it to rain on the just and the unjust". Sorry Rainey. By your logic your deity is punishing innocent people. You loose again.

      BUT congratulations. What is WRONG with you ? Short posts ? What have you done with the REAL Rainer ?

      June 21, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Gay marriage has been legal where I live for over a decade and we've yet to suffer any divine wrath.
      In fact, one of the world's largest Gay Pride festivals is on right now and the weather is sublime!

      June 21, 2014 at 5:16 pm |
  18. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    By the way, the former German foreign secretary Mr. Guido Westerwelle is just chastised by the Godhead: He suffers from leukemia (cancer of the blood).

    It depends on Westerwelle how things will turn out. If he repents, believes in Jesus, and refers to his infant baptism (I imply that he got baptized as an infant), he will experience deliverance, forgiveness AND cure. If he remains stubborn, his disease will become a curse for him, and he will face physical death and eternal death.

    Mr. Westerwell has a male partner, that means that he is gay.

    How long did Westerwelle play the achiever, but know he is brought low by the divinity.

    Don't let us get seduced by the current success of the stubborn sinners. History shows that longterms many of them were brought low yet here on earth.

    Repent before God considers it as necessary to chastise you. Avoid any suffering, and be obedient right now.

    June 21, 2014 at 3:24 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Too bad Jesus Christ can't set you free from your hateful ignorance, Rainey. Too bad Jesus Christ can't set you free from your painfully obvious arrogance and self-worship.

      However, you are pretty funny. I just pity those who have to deal with a sociopath like you in real life, on a daily basis.

      June 21, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
    • Akira

      By the way, you are a hateful bigot who lacks empathy and continues to make a mockery of The Lord by your blasphemous willful misinterpretation of His words to support your narrowness of view.

      June 21, 2014 at 3:43 pm |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        Who is your Lord?

        Satan?

        June 21, 2014 at 3:46 pm |
        • Akira

          Who is yours? Bonhoffer and Luther?
          You are possessed by hatred.

          June 21, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
    • new-man

      Rainer, you need to be born-again.

      This is not God!

      I've said before on this blog, God doesn't need me defending Him.

      Rainer what you have written is beyond detestable and you do not have a true revelation of who Jesus is.

      Jesus came to do the will of God, and in so doing Jesus healed all that were oppressed of the devil. so we know that sickness is oppression brought on by the devil because the devil seeks only to rob, kill and destroy people.
      when the disciples couldn't heal a sick boy, Jesus didn't leave the boy with the illness and said that's the will of God. No, he scolded his disciples for lacking the faith to heal the boy, then He healed the boy- because healing and health is always the will of God.

      Rainer, you need to be born-again.

      June 21, 2014 at 3:36 pm

      June 21, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
      • tallulah131

        Rainey worships himself. He will not be born again, because he has found his one true god.

        June 21, 2014 at 4:09 pm |
        • new-man

          I actually think you're right... it's more self-righteousness than anything else that afflicts Rainer.

          Rainer, this part is for you: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

          June 21, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          New-Man
          one thing here is that it is God's election that we are born again. the spiritually dead cannot do anything of their own accord. no one is truly born again except those who are called by Him.
          "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." – John 6:65

          June 22, 2014 at 6:09 pm |
        • Akira

          awanderingscot, would you say that Rainier is spiritually dead?

          June 22, 2014 at 6:14 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          Akira
          no i don't make that judgment at all; however, i do not agree with everything he has stated. i will say that anyone here blaspheming God and His word is in fact spiritually dead. anyone blaspheming the Holy Spirit will never ever receive forgiveness and is damned.

          June 22, 2014 at 6:26 pm |
        • gulliblenomore

          Fvck your god and fvck the holy spirit.....can I be damned now? What a ridiculous and moronic thing to say. Hitler is responsible for the deaths of millions and has a chance at heaven, but calling god and the holy spirit names damns you for eternity? Stupid nonsense.

          June 22, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
        • Akira

          Thanks for your reply, awanderingscot.

          June 22, 2014 at 7:12 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          Gullible
          duly noted.

          June 22, 2014 at 7:35 pm |
        • fintronics

          Hey snotty..... don't forget, I'm storing up wrath!..... I'm storing up wrath!.... haaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!

          June 23, 2014 at 2:40 pm |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        Is there a locus in space and time where one could get born-again?

        As their is no locus, your "born-again" cannot be real.

        I have experienced the rebirth out of Water and Spirit at a real locus in space and time: My sacramental infant baptism.

        I know what I am talking about, but you?

        New-man's Jesus is just imagination, but I am connected with the real, sacral Jesus whom I could incorporate through the Lord's Supper again and again.

        June 21, 2014 at 4:11 pm |
        • Akira

          Rainier, you cannot redefine the message of Hesus to suit your idea of His ministry. You fancy yourself a theological scholar, but His message is getting list in your translation.
          You love nothing but you own idea of what He is.
          You worship yourself.

          June 21, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • Akira

          *Jesus.
          Again, apologies.

          June 21, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
        • Akira

          Wait, what?
          You consider you sacramental infant baptism, as a Catholic, your born-again locus, while at the same time condemn the Catholics on a near-daily basis?
          Are you that confused?

          You are making your own religion up, aren't you?

          June 21, 2014 at 4:43 pm |
      • austin929

        it seems to me that Ranier is keen on "lord ship" in that the excessive devotion to a sin is considered spiritual idolatry or prosti.tution.

        I think this is important, but also important is the fact that "while we were yet sinners" Christ died. and that He came to save the sick.

        the truth is that through the resurrection we are able to "over come". If you read revelations, we repeatedly see the phrase " but to him who over comes" ..

        June 22, 2014 at 6:17 pm |
        • Akira

          Stick around long enough, Austin, and he will attack you, too, just as he has attacked everyone else, here; Christian or not.
          Nobody is Christian enough for him.

          June 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm |
        • Akira

          And a minor note: it's Revelation, not revelations.

          June 22, 2014 at 6:24 pm |
        • austin929

          ya i think that at some point if I get into the habit of debating at some point if my metabolism turns to hungry angry lonely tired, I will offend somebody. This is a really important topic that involves sensitive individuals. I'd put it out there along side...."what will Jesus say to a Hindu?"

          word of advice Lord is equivalent to "master"

          June 22, 2014 at 6:28 pm |
        • austin929

          I appreciate your punctuation Akira!

          June 22, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Really you fool ? Shall I tell the 6 year olds in the hospital suffering from cancer they are being "justly punished" ?
      You sick weirdo.

      June 21, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
  19. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    Jesus Christ is still ready to set free gays from their gayness. God has a very understanding for the depravity of our human nature we have inherited from our parents and finally from Adam and Eve. God knows that we sometimes feel inclinations which we would not dare to confess publically.

    I don't hate gays, and I would never harm a gay man or woman. On the contrary, I consider gays as people who are seduced by Satan who made them believe that gayness is a predisposition like being lefty. To some extent it is even true that gayness is a predisposition. It is only that we should be aware that this predisposition belongs to our sinful nature, to our general inclination to sin, to do, what God has prohibited. Gayness is not a neutral predispositon like being lefty. Being lefty is morally neutral like being small or ugly, black or white, clever or stupid, etc.

    Of course, to some extent it is true: "They are born with it!" like "sam stone" would say. Yet, gays have to accept that their inclination is a consequence of Adam's fall who degenerated after the Fall. This inclination doesn't belong to man as he or she was genuinely created by God. Gayness and other sins are a result of Adam's submission to the powers of death and destruction.

    When Jesus died for us on the cross he has borne our sin. He has resurrected in order to sanctify us. Through faith in Jesus we can become partakers of a new, divine nature which can gradually suppress our bad old nature, if we daily accept again the humble dwelling of Jesus in us through the Holy Spirit.

    The locus in space and time, where we get connected with the releasing power of Jesus death and resurrection, is sacramental baptism or the rebirth out of Water and Spirit. There we die for the sin, and enter Christ. Dead for the sin, and being in Christ, we are able to overcome the bad inclinations of our body.

    Conclusion: God doesn't hate gays, but he wants to set them free. Every gay who accepted the freeing through Jesus Christ, will come through at Judgement Day.

    If you face a severe disease like cancer then regard this as God's education who uses the disease as a rod to chastise you, sot that you may not get lost, but get saved. Together with forgiveness God will give you cure – it is up to you.

    Who is God's enemy?

    Those are the people trying to justify or legalize gayness. That is a crime against God. That is much worse than being gay. That is a sin of the spirit, very severe. Such a people should be aware that God will chastise them very hard, and they will face no peaceful future here and beyond.

    The legalization of any misbehaviour is the great crime of our time. That will not work, God will educate us by any means.

    Read what really matters, and ignore the posts of the brain-dead trolls.

    Word for Sunday.

    June 21, 2014 at 3:17 pm |
    • Doris

      Rainy: "Jesus Christ is still ready to set free gays from their gayness."

      LOL

      Rainy: "God has a very understanding for the depravity of our human nature we have inherited from our parents and finally from Adam and Eve. God knows that we sometimes feel inclinations which we would not dare to confess publically."

      LOL – way to speak for God, dou.chebag.

      Rainy: "I consider gays as people who are seduced by Satan who made them believe that gayness is a predisposition like being lefty."

      LOL – when trying to make a point, and one god is not enough, by all means involve as many as you need. (eyeroll)

      Rainy: ".... Being lefty is morally neutral like being small or ugly, black or white, clever or stupid, etc."

      LOL – interesting description..

      Rainy: "gays have to accept that their inclination is a consequence of Adam's fall who degenerated after the Fall. This inclination doesn't belong to man as he or she was genuinely created by God. Gayness and other sins are a result of Adam's submission to the powers of death and destruction."

      Ah – well here's your problem, Rainy. You have a preconceived notion associating gayness with sin. Christians, of course are in great disagreement with each other over that. You should read realbuckeyball's post below – you might actually learn something.

      Rainy: "blah blah more and more stuff about sin blah blah blah"

      Rainy: "Conclusion: blah blah blah – more stuff about sin and that gayness is a disease and – blah blah blah"

      Here's my conclusion, Rainy – you're a bigot and a pretty disgusting one at that. How easily do you think people can be fooled by your inane attempts to put on a friendly face while espousing your twisted opinions about gays based on your interpretation of Gullible's Travels?

      And by the way, Rainy – since you are always so hyped up on "sin", why don't you invite awanderingscot over for some mutual flagellation? I would think if you two made a concerted effort to double down on self-deprecation, according to your strange beliefs, you would be guaranteed first class seats to that big dungeon in the sky.......

      June 21, 2014 at 3:36 pm |
    • Akira

      Stop lying. There's a Commmandment you keep breaking. Revisit it and repent.

      June 21, 2014 at 3:40 pm |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        The words of your mouth – how disgusting.

        June 21, 2014 at 3:43 pm |
        • Akira

          I understand how you would feel at the measure which you judged being visited upon you.
          You break the 9th Commandment on a regular basis.
          A moment of self-reflection fir perverting the word of God will be good for you.

          June 21, 2014 at 3:50 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Takes a brain dead troll to know a brain dead troll.

      June 21, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
  20. Doris

    I thought this was an interesting post by realbuckeyball earlier:

    ======

    Ho'mose'xuality as an "orientation" was unknown in the history of human ideas until the late Nineteenth Century.
    There was no, (supposed), "lifestyle" until the Twentieth Century. The idea of "orientation" arose when Psychology began to develop as a science. All men were as'sumed to be straight, and only straight, all women straight, and only straight.
    There was also no notion of a continuum of s'exual behaviors, (bise'xuality), as science recognizes today.
    Any "different" behavior was seen as "deviancy" from an absolute inherent norm, which the person was as'sumed to inherently possess, completely by virtue of birth gender.

    In Ancient Israel class and status distinctions were extremely important.
    The injunction in Biblical times, (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13), was against (as'sumed), STRAIGHT men, (and only men), (as they ALL were as'sumed to be straight), engaging in same-se'x behaviors. (There is a mistaken use of the Sodom and Gomorrah myth in this context also, which is misguided.)

    Why ?
    It had to do with class structure, and male status. A male, who held the highest position in society, and held the highest class status, was seen to be "feminized" by penetration, and designated as a social inferior, (female), by a male of lower class status, and thus his status was lowered, to that of a woman. THAT is the reason the culture forbade it. It had NOTHING to do with s'ex. It was status, and only status. This concept remains very much, (subliminally and overtly), in place today. This law code, in Leviticus, (the latest law code to be written), is the ONLY place this appears in the Old Testament. The author of Leviticus was very interested in the "equality of all" before God. It was that author's agenda. He also said strangers, and others from outside Israel were all to be treated with equal rights and dignity, which was a departure, from other texts and codes. It is ironic, indeed, this equality has been turned on it's head, to treat gay people, less equality. The author of Leviticus WANTED all people treated equally, and that is why he wrote the injunction into the text, in the first place, to PREVENT inequality. The ideal society for this author was classless, and that could not happen if a male penetrates a male, and makes him thereby, a lower class. It's about class, not se'x.

    This cultural origin was true in the Old Testament culture, as well as the New. That is the reason it ended up in the Bible, and the ONLY reason it was there.

    The law in the Old Testament : "You shall not lay a male as with the laying of a woman, it is an offensive thing". (note: the correct translation is NOT, "it is an abomination"). (The word "toi-va" is used, and in archaic Hebrew, EVERYWHERE else is translated, "an offensive thing").

    Why is this important ? Because there are levels of "offensive things", and levels of meanings of "offensive things".
    There were a number of levels of offensive things in the Old Testament.

    #1. was something which was offensive to God, and this was the worst.
    #2. was something which was offensive to other peoples and cultures, (for example the same word is used with reference to some foods being "offensive" to other cultures, (as hagas might be to Americans), or for example the Egyptians didn't eat, with non-Egyptians, as that was "offensive", or in today's language, "bad manners".
    #3. was something which was just generally "offensive", with no further relational attribution.

    So it can be "offensive" to some people, but not everyone, and is relative to the situation, or to god, or just in general.
    The injunction against male same se'x behavior is the third kind of offensive. It's not related to either God or anything, or anyone else. (There are other verses around it that are stated to be offensive to God, but not this one).
    So in this text, it is offensive to the authors of the text, and that specific culture, (only).

    Same-s'ex behaviors (upper class man penetrated by same class or lower class men), was forbidden, for class reasons. Equal class men, doing non-penetrating activity, or women together was not forbidden.
    ( Woman with woman, in general, was not addressed, and the class issue was not important.)

    So what does this tell us ?
    It tells us the laws were written into the Bible by HUMANS, for human culturally relative, and internally referenced reasons. The laws in the Bible REFLECTED their OWN culture, of the times, and did not "inform" the culture.
    The direction of information flow is crucial. Every Biblical scholar knows this. The Bible was informed by the culture, NOT the other way around. There are no "ultimate" claims possible from culturally relative, historically rooted, human local customs.

    The other main text used to justify the fundamentalist nonsense about ho'mose'xuality, is the Sodom and Gomorrah myth in Genesis. Hospitality of Abraham : In Genesis 18, there is a myth about the hospitality of Abraham, (he welcomes two strangers, who turn out to be angels), as that was an important cultural value, in a society where a wandering desert dweller could get lost, and die. The myth is followed closely by it's counter example of in-hospitality in the Lot myth, (Sodom and Gomorrah). It is not about se'x. It's a counter example to the hospitality story, of in-hospitality. The context is important.

    The great irony is that religious fundies use the Bible to keep gay people away from their "table", and feasts, using the very texts that the Bible intended to teach hospitality, to do precisely the opposite.

    June 21, 2014 at 2:57 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Thanks Doris.

      June 21, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      this is about the most sick and twisted non-interpretation of scripture I've ever heard. it will never sway a true believer.

      June 22, 2014 at 5:49 pm |
      • fintronics

        Of course snotty, YOUR interpretation is the correct one!

        June 23, 2014 at 2:44 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        And YOUR PhD is from where ? Is came from a very well respected scholar, (which you would know nothing about). I do get that real scholarship IS a threat to you fundie simpletons. That's why I like to study it.

        June 23, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.