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'Dead Man Walking' nun: 'Botched' executions unmask a botched system
Sister Helen Prejean is a Roman Catholic nun and a leading advocate for the abolition of the death penalty.
August 6th, 2014
12:55 PM ET

'Dead Man Walking' nun: 'Botched' executions unmask a botched system

By Moni Basu, CNN

New Orleans, Louisiana (CNN) - Sister Helen Prejean blasts the air-conditioner in her champagne-colored Toyota Corolla, the back bumper held up with duct tape. It's clear why friends insist on driving when they are with her. She could rival NASCAR's Danica Patrick on the gas pedal. Age - she turned 75 this year - hasn't slowed her down.

She was weaving all over Interstate 10 when police stopped her one time. Turned out she was reading while driving. The officer let her go when he discovered who she was: "I'll go straight to hell if I ticket a nun," he said.

He made her promise she would never do that again. So now she depends on iPhone's Siri for driving directions and making phone calls. She also likes to play Plants vs. Zombies (not while in motion, of course) even though the violent nature of the game goes against her Christian principles.

"It's OK," she says. "The zombies are already dead."

On this day in late July, Prejean is nearing Louisiana State Penitentiary, otherwise known as Angola, for the post office that serves it. She's been here so many times the warden no longer subjects her to the protocol for visitors.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Catholic Church • Christianity • Death

soundoff (439 Responses)
  1. 19covenant19

    Jesus Christ has already returned

    with "BIBLICAL EXCELLENT MIRACLES" for the Salvation of all.

    See him now, with your own eyes, right here:

    http://www.19covenant19.com

    August 17, 2014 at 6:52 am |
    • Doris

      spam

      August 17, 2014 at 5:50 pm |
  2. kenmargo

    You want to stop the crimes that result in the death penalty? Take away the weapon of choice. THE GUN. As the prez said "America needs to do some soul searching" We need to decide what is more important. PEOPLE or GUNS.

    If you want to keep criminals from getting guns, then you have to pass laws that do that.
    If you want to keep people with mental issues from getting guns, then you have to pass laws that do that.
    Ronald Reagan, a conservative republican signed a law banning assault weapons. Bush let that law expire. You know why Bush let that law expire? Because he didn't give damn. The next time there's a school shooting you can add that blood to Bush's bloody hands from the Iraq war.

    People don't want to register guns because "The gov't don't have the right to know" The gov't knows:
    How much money you make. (You pay taxes)
    How many children you have
    If you're married
    Donations
    Other dependants
    Where you live
    Passport showing where you travel

    If you have a drivers license the gov't knows:
    What you look like
    Where you travel (e-z pass)
    What you drive

    I didn't even mention the NSA. Your biggest concern should be what the public knows. Google your name to see what's out there.

    You need a license to be a contractor, doctor, drive a car, pilot amongst other things.
    Why not a license for a gun? A license will at least show you have met a minimum requirement.
    Your license could be your background check. Keep it clean and you can buy your gun and take it home in the same day. Misbehave and get your license taken away like any other license.

    If you're not willing to pass COMMON SENSE gun laws, do you really love your kids? When you kiss your kids and send them off to school, can you honestly say you did your best to protect them?

    I guess the question I'm asking is this: What's more important, life or gun rights?

    August 11, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
  3. Vic

    While this is a tired controversy, here is what I have to say:

    It is so ironic that many want the Death Penalty for the Death Penalty while 'Murder' and 'Wrongful Convictions' are that deserve the "Death Penalty."

    While there is no magic bullet —irony of the words— for the problem, I believe tackling violence at the grass roots is what's needed, it starts at the individual.

    I read the entire FULL STORY post and was tormented by what was done to the victims, unfathomable!

    I don't know what else to say.

    August 8, 2014 at 11:53 pm |
    • austin929

      how about gang stoning Stephen? its less sick when its done as a religious obsession and blunt stones, not made by the skilled craftmans hands such as a fine blade? Or a lynching............Or the massacre of the Indigenous

      killing is not made better by killing .

      August 9, 2014 at 12:32 am |
      • austin929

        but it pleased God to make Him a ransom for many.

        August 9, 2014 at 12:33 am |
      • Reality

        And Austin still has not found the historic Jesus and therefore his comments are moot to the discussion.

        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        August 9, 2014 at 10:00 am |
  4. austin929

    Jesus Christ is a judge. Jesus died for HIs enemies.......your sins killed God. Your sins put Him up on a cross.

    I think the new testament law, forgiving the Jihadist Paul, should be applied . What does this mean for society?

    August 8, 2014 at 5:58 pm |
    • kenmargo

      Doesn't mean a damn thing.

      August 8, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
      • austin929

        Ken, when you take up error, and make an idol out of it. The soul becomes desolated. At that point the devil has control and one is soul enslaved.

        Idolatry is a serious format that lives within people. How innocent are those who reject God's solution?

        August 8, 2014 at 6:40 pm |
        • bostontola

          Austin,
          It seems to me that as a group, Christians are the biggest idol makers around.

          August 8, 2014 at 6:45 pm |
        • austin929

          bostontola, that may be true and it would make sense because Satan is working the hardest to pervert the word of
          Christ.

          What is your take on the new testament is this a peaceful message to follow if read literally? for the age of the church preceeding Christs return?

          August 8, 2014 at 11:06 pm |
        • bostontola

          Austin,
          I like the NT a lot. I find much of it great wisdom and I try to follow it.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:01 am |
        • austin929

          Bostontola

          wow that is awesome that there is some appeal there. I am happy to hear that, thanks for the response.

          You are a pleasant individual.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
    • bostontola

      Austin,
      You guys are always harping on the law of causality. Now my sins killed someone 2000 years ago?

      August 8, 2014 at 6:16 pm |
      • kenmargo

        @boston.............Hey you're a baaaaaaaad man ! ! ! !

        August 8, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
    • Reality

      And Austin still has not found the historic Jesus and therefore his comments are moot to the discussion.

      August 8, 2014 at 7:19 pm |
  5. bostontola

    We euthanize millions of animals in this country every year. You'd think that would give us some expertise.

    August 8, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
    • kenmargo

      We don't really care how the animals feel.

      August 8, 2014 at 6:02 pm |
      • bostontola

        I disagree. The Humane Society, the SPCA, etc. do care and put pressure on to humanely euthanize.

        August 8, 2014 at 6:18 pm |
        • kenmargo

          I've never heard anyone say "the animal was gasping for air" "The animal was innocent" "The animal's lawyer filed an appeal" When you read a animal is going to be put down. There are no protests. Do we really know it was done humanely?

          August 8, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
        • bostontola

          ken,
          I personally don't know, especially in all cases. I do know that the Humane Society and the SPCA are very aggressive in monitoring. We would hear loud and clear when they find issues. It is rare that we do. I think it is reasonable to conclude that most of the time we do humane killing of animals. Hence the OP.

          August 8, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Ok I'll take your word for it.

          August 8, 2014 at 6:38 pm |
  6. khidir619

    I'm fine with the death penalty, just not the way it's carried out in this country. No convicted killers should be able to play spades and watch all major sporting events for 15 years after conviction. They should die the day they are convicted. But that's only if that's what the victims family wants. If the family wants to forgive, then life in prison it is. I don't agree with jurors deciding the fate of the criminals' life or death. I think jurors should only be responsible for repercussions up to life in prison. Death should be the decision of the families of the victims only.

    August 8, 2014 at 5:48 pm |
    • kenmargo

      "They should die the day they are convicted"

      Info from the innocence project.
      Number of prisoners sentenced to death before DNA proves their innocence: 18. This info was given back in January.

      I think your lust for blood could/should wait a little bit.

      "No convicted killers should be able to play spades and watch all major sporting events for 15 years after conviction."

      When did watching TV and playing cards be considered exciting? They have to do something to pass the time.

      August 8, 2014 at 5:58 pm |
      • khidir619

        "Lust for blood?" Definitely not me. There's many killers. 18 isn't that high of a number. People tend to get angry when someone kills their family member. Wanting that person to die right away is hardly a lust for blood... And when you're locked up in a cage, yes, spades and sports are not only exciting, it's a reward. You take someone's life, you lose yours. Especially if you kill a child.

        August 8, 2014 at 11:47 pm |
        • kenmargo

          "And when you're locked up in a cage, yes, spades and sports are not only exciting, it's a reward."

          Have you spent time in prison? How do you know?

          August 11, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
        • khidir619

          No, I haven't, but I do know how it goes. Recreation time is everything. As a matter of fact, it's son to kill over in there.

          August 23, 2014 at 5:15 pm |
        • khidir619

          *something, not son

          August 24, 2014 at 8:27 am |
    • dandintac

      Do you realize that many people who were once convicted and put on Death Row were later exonnerated conclusively through DNA testing? Not just a tiny handful–quite a few. And for many murder cases, there is no DNA to test. One has to wonder–how many innocent people were executed before DNA testing was available? And how many innocent people are being executed now, in murder cases where there is no DNA to test?

      I read somewhere that inevitably–no matter how good we make the justice system, INEVITABLY, something like 8% of executions will be men (or women) who were in fact, innocent of the crimes they were charged with that put them on death row.

      We KNOW this. It is a known fact. Innocent people WILL be executed if you have the death penalty. And as long as you have the death penalty at all, there will always be political pressure to use it more, and pressure upon prosecutors to seek it, and get death penalty convictions–actual innocence be damned.

      If we eliminate appeals, and introduce same-day executions, we can expect that 8% number who are innocent to jump much higher. Please remember–this is the same criminal justice system that you and I are subject to as well–it's not just "the other" who always gets it. It could just as easily be you.

      So my question for you is this: how many innocent people are you willing to execute? How is this moral? Is it not basically state-sponsored murder, if we know we are executing innocent people in the process of getting the guilty? And are you okay being subject to this sort of system yourself?

      August 9, 2014 at 12:52 am |
      • austin929

        dude, we built a new jail, and a quarter of the people in there are homeless, have crossed eyes or have a birth defect. The fact is that America is a fascist and sick nation.

        It is not a legal system, it is a cost effective business beast.

        August 9, 2014 at 1:01 am |
      • khidir619

        I'm well aware of innocent people put to death in the past. Especially blacks that were convicted by racist juries in years past. Those days are gone. Forensics are much better these days too. I'm all for extremely long murder trials just to make sure that everything is right. But when the evidence is a slam dunk, upon conviction, the victims family should have the option to have that person executed right away. I know I would love to have that option if someone took a family member from me. And yes, I am fine with being subject to this sort of system for two reasons: 1) If everyone is subjected to it, that obviously include me. 2) I don't kill people, so it's not something I'm worried about being subject to anyway.

        August 9, 2014 at 7:50 am |
        • kenmargo

          @kh................How do you know you won't kill someone? How do you know you won't be framed? I'ts easy from the comfort of a keyboard to pooh pooh things. I bet if your azz was strapped to the rack while a needle is being inserted in your arm, you won't be so "willing" to accept things.

          August 11, 2014 at 5:20 pm |
        • dandintac

          khidir,

          Read this story: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/13/opinion/cousin-death-row/

          You really believe that everything is all good now, racism is all gone, everyone always gets a fair trial, and it can never happen to you?

          No one ever thinks it will happen to them. It's always the other that gets it.

          Statistically, if we execute people, we can reliably expect that 8% of them will be innocent. That's even with modern forensics. (CSI on TV is not a reliable source for how modern forensics is done. Often labs are under-funded and under-staffed and poorly trained). In real life, a lot of convictions are still obtained through coerced confessions and uncertain witness testimony, which is just about the worst evidence there is.

          Do you know how many people have been exonnerated through DNA testing that was not available when they were convicted? At one point Illinois had to release 18 people on death row who were exonnerated by DNA testing! If it were not for the lengthy appeals process, they would have been executed, and all inquiry into their actual guilt would have stopped. And there is not always DNA available to test. How many innocent people are on death row where there was no DNA to test?

          As long as we execute people, there will always be pressure to execute more people. A lengthy appeals process helped to save those innocents who were exonnerated, but laready many people want to do away with this safeguard, which would definitely ensure that more innocents are murdered by the state.

          You're really so sure it could never happen to you? I wish I could be so sure, and I wish I could be certain that only the guilty are excuted, but the evidence suggest otherwise.

          August 11, 2014 at 8:31 pm |
        • khidir619

          I'd be willing to take that penalty if I murdered someone. No, I don't know if I'll ever kill anyone. That's killing, not murdering. Killing is justified as in a case of self defense. You don't face the death penalty for self defense... Framed? Cmon now, do you think I'm famous? Or a spy? Or a manchurian canidate? Who would frame me for murder. Even so, forensics can clear your name easily these days. So can these cameras everywhere nowadays. Everyone has an alibi in the 21st century.

          August 23, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
  7. lunchbreaker

    At the Battle of the Ditch, the noble Imam 'Ali had knocked an enemy soldier to the ground and was raising his sword to kill him, when the unbeliever spat in the blessed face of the Valiant Lion, may Allah be pleased with him. Imam 'Ali at once stood still and refrained from killing his enemy. Hardly able to believe his own eyes, the unbeliever asked: "Why have you spared me, O gracious one?"

    To this, the noble 'Ali repliied: "Your property and your life have become sacrosanct to me. I am not authorized to slay you. I can receive permission to kill only in holy combat, in fighting commanded by Allah. Just a few moments ago, I had overcome you in battle, knocked you to the ground and was on the point of slaying you. But when you spat in my face, my selfish anger was aroused against you. If I had killed you, I would have slain you not for Allah's sake but for my own selfish reason; they would then have called me not a champion warrior, but a murderer. When you spat in my face, my selfish passion threatened to overwhelm me, so instead of striking you with the sword for my own sake I struck my passion for the sake of Allah, Exalted is He. There you have the reason for your escape."

    While I am hardly a Muslim, I find value in this story. One problem I have with some death penalty supporters is that they seem to be coming from a place of anger more so than a sense of justice.

    Also when the man was killing countless others, he knew he was 100% justified in doing so. Who can say they are 100% confident that a gov't made of fallible humans can be 100% justified in 100% of death sentences?

    If there is any chance that 1 innocent person is put to death due to human error, I will not support the death penalty. And that's why I don't.

    August 8, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      One of our worst, destructive, desires is for vengeance. We want to appoint people to entrust with carrying it out for us. They will walk the same streets with us, perhaps go to church, be members of our society. They are not loathsome killers. They are "justified".

      August 8, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
    • kenmargo

      Info from the innocence project.

      Number of prisoners sentenced to death before DNA proves their innocence: 18 This info was given back in January.

      Considering racism and ignorance in the jurors/prosecutor/police in the system and add the lack of DNA technology many years ago. There's no doubt we've executed an innocent individual.

      Considering racism and ignorance in the jurors/prosecutor/police in the system and add the lack of DNA technology many years ago. There's no doubt we've executed an innocent individual.

      August 8, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
    • bostontola

      "If there is any chance that 1 innocent person is put to death due to human error, I will not support the death penalty. And that's why I don't."

      I'm exactly there.

      I have also never seen good evidence that the death penalty has any measurable deterrence value. There have been cases where it has had the opposite effect. After killing 1 person, the killer had nothing to lose and would kill again to attempt escape.

      Add to that the monetary and moral cost, and it's just a loser.

      August 8, 2014 at 5:03 pm |
      • kenmargo

        "I have also never seen good evidence that the death penalty has any measurable deterrence value"

        BINGO! Texas has been executing people like it's an olympic sport! The people haven't stopped murdering!

        August 8, 2014 at 5:19 pm |
    • Alias

      All legal systems have a tightrope to walk.
      If they let guilty people go they get blamed for the harm they do later.
      The alternative is to risk punishing innocent people.
      I agree that with our current system the death penalty should be stopped, but I'm not against it in principle.

      August 8, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
      • bostontola

        Doesn't life with no possibility of parole solve that quandary?

        August 8, 2014 at 5:33 pm |
        • Alias

          Not THAT problem.
          Sending an innocent person to jail for the rest of their life is just as bad.

          August 8, 2014 at 5:53 pm |
        • bostontola

          Life in prison is not irreversible, death is. If new evidence is found, the case can be reopened.

          No system eliminates human error.

          August 8, 2014 at 5:59 pm |
        • austin929

          Christ's system eliminates a lot of things.

          August 8, 2014 at 6:04 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @austin929........It also eliminates brains.

          August 8, 2014 at 6:12 pm |
        • bostontola

          Austin,
          Not human error among them.

          August 8, 2014 at 6:13 pm |
      • austin929

        I am against the business all together. no one deserves a pension who is in the legal system, and I consider it maggot parasite robbery that my taxes pay for that pension.

        August 8, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
        • kenmargo

          What are you talking about?

          August 8, 2014 at 6:11 pm |
        • Doris

          I have no clue, kenmargo. When I went to take the trash out, I did take a magnifying glass. It took a while, but I did find some maggots near the dumpster. But as far as I could see, none of them had even a hairpin for jimmying a door lock, much less any safe-cracking equipment.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:49 pm |
  8. kenmargo

    I posted on the first page my anti-gun rant. The support for guns shows we are truly animals. I couldn't believe the reasons people use to support guns. This is another reason to be against the death penalty. We WANT people to have guns, yet want to execute them when they use them the way they're supposed to be used. TO KILL PEOPLE.

    School shootings, bystander shootings, mall shootings, church shootings, serial killers the list goes on and on. NOBODY CARES. We have manufactures making bullet proof school bags! Is that the environment you want to send your kids to school in?

    Want know how killers get guns? They get them from SO CALLED LAW ABIDING PEOPLE A/K/A NRA MEMBERS. So law abiding/nra members sell/give criminals the gun, then state they need the gun to protect themselves from the criminal!

    So It goes back to this blog. Why are we executing people for violent crimes, yet we do nothing to keep them from getting the weapon to commit the crime?

    August 8, 2014 at 4:14 pm |
    • Løki

      If swords are outlawed... only criminals will have swords.

      August 8, 2014 at 4:26 pm |
      • kenmargo

        This azz hole answer proves my point. Brainless response from a moron. Please loser the next time you clean your gun, make sure it's loaded.

        August 8, 2014 at 4:28 pm |
        • Løki

          You're funny... you cry like a little b*tch about gun control... but then you wish me to kill myself with one. The hypocrisy and irony is palpable...

          August 8, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @ loki........The real irony would be the fact that you ignorantly think guns protect you and you end up shooting yourself. No one would miss you including members of your family. If you have children/nieces/nephews, I hope they're victims of the next school shooting. No need for your type to spawn more morons to dirty the planet.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:44 pm |
        • Alias

          Kenmargo
          Your wisdom is almost timeless and almost inspiring:
          Guns are the cause of violence
          The middle east would be a peaceful place if the Gaza residents would be nice to the jews
          People can live on helium if the oxygen is taken from the air.

          I’m sure Confucius and JC are green with envy.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:51 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Good to see alias has added his ignorance to the conversation. Another person without any problem solving skills. Welcome.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:54 pm |
        • Løki

          LOL. Your hate truly becomes you.... I wouldn't wish any of that on someone... goodbye assclown.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:56 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Loki the loser is gone. What's wrong loki? Why don't you provide your children guns when they go to school? As the NRA would say "The way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun" Aren't your children good guys?

          August 8, 2014 at 5:02 pm |
        • Alias

          Kenmargo
          FYI –
          Loki is the father of Hel, the wolf Fenrir, and the world serpent Jörmungandr.
          I don't know if any of them need guns....

          August 8, 2014 at 5:10 pm |
      • Alias

        And when fists are outlawed, only government employees and criminals will have hands.
        Of course, that will help the popularity of soccer more than the World Cup did.

        August 8, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • lunchbreaker

          Glad I got that government job now.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
        • kenmargo

          You are a true republican. Repeat the same dumb paranoid nonsense you hear from every other gun nut.

          If you closed the gun show loop hole it would help to keep criminals from getting guns because of background checks.

          Give a solution to a problem instead of paranoid ignorance.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
        • Alias

          Kenmargo
          Now your are afraid soccer will be popular in America?
          Call me ignorant all you want, but without our guns I don't see any wat we can keep it from happening.

          August 8, 2014 at 5:03 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @Alias..............Seriously do you think school shootings are a problem? Give me a solution!
          Do you think criminals having access to guns are a problem? Give me a solution!

          You need a license to drive a car. Why not one for a gun?
          You register your car? Why not register a gun?

          August 8, 2014 at 5:16 pm |
        • Alias

          Violent people are the actual problem.

          August 8, 2014 at 5:50 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Since there is no way of eliminating criminals prior to them comitting a crime (unless you're a mind reader). Can't you come up with something? I'm sure you either have children/nieces/nephews/cousins. What would YOU DO to protect them. Saying criminals are the problem, that's obvious.
          I suggested a couple of things. Do you agree or disagree?

          August 8, 2014 at 6:10 pm |
        • dandintac

          Yeah, like lots of people are dying from fists out there.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:02 am |
  9. awanderingscot

    One day the zoo-keeper noticed that the orang-utan was reading two books – the Bible and Darwin's The Origin of Species.
    In surprise he asked the ape, "Why are you reading both those books"?
    "Well," said the orang-utang, "I just wanted to know if I was my brother's keeper or my keeper's brother."

    August 8, 2014 at 3:54 pm |
    • ausphor

      LAME

      August 8, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
    • LaBella

      Pretty smart animal. Perhaps there is something to that whole man and apes sharing a common ancestor if this dude is reading both the Bible and Darwin.

      August 8, 2014 at 4:57 pm |
      • LaBella

        Not to mention surprisingly articulate in speech.

        August 8, 2014 at 5:08 pm |
      • bostontola

        "I just wanted to know if I was my brother's keeper or my keeper's brother."

        Actually, that is a classic false dichotomy, both could be true. The Orangutan should have known better. ; )

        August 8, 2014 at 6:33 pm |
    • evidencenot

      Awanderingsnot rejects evolution because....

      33.) Because he doesn't realize that if we actually found croco-ducks in the fossil record, it would falsify evolution.

      34.) Because plenty of respectable people like Ron Paul, Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee (who are not scientists) don’t accept evolution, and that somehow validates his opinion.

      35.) Because his mother didn’t know not to drink while she was pregnant. She also didn’t know not to repeatedly throw herself down a flight of stairs in an attempt to undo the accident of screwing someone who voted for Bush both times.

      August 12, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
  10. Løki

    Two mice knock on Mr. Mouse's door. "Hello, we'd like to talk to you about cheeses"

    August 8, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      Mr Mouse: "Great, cheeses is my favorite savor."

      August 8, 2014 at 2:56 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      I thought a cool name for a pizza joint would be "Cheesus Crust"

      August 8, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
      • ausphor

        lunch
        Like, but I wouldn't go south of the Mason-Dixon line with that handle.

        August 8, 2014 at 3:18 pm |
  11. noahsdadtopher

    Science, dude, are you around?

    August 8, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      I'm sure you'll see this later, dude. From a story today about bones found in a cave in Wyoming ...

      "They're not entirely sure yet what they've found in two weeks of digging at Natural Trap Cave, but they're planning further study back in their labs.

      "Bones they've found could include those of North American lions, short-faced bears and other now-extinct species from 25,000 years ago."

      So they haven't even run the tests yet and they know the age. See the presupposition? And now when they go to the lab they'll have the presupposition when they interpret the data. It's this kind of thing that makes me not trust dating methods.

      August 8, 2014 at 2:03 pm |
      • harlow13

        I'm not sure about the way you frame this. I might expect my bath water to be 110 degrees, but it has no impact on the reading I take with a thermometer. As long as the thermometer reading is reported, my estimate is irrelevant.

        August 8, 2014 at 2:19 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          The problem is they aren't even sure what animals they are. It says "could include" ... and they are assigning the date. So when they go in and actually do a date — and let's say the method gives them a date of 5,000 years — they'll want to throw it out because they've already interpreted it one way.

          I agree the estimate SHOULD be irrelevant, but that's often not the case.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • Alias

          Topher
          They apparently did not find perfect and complete skeletons. They are making educated guesses based on their experience and knowledge. When they get the lab results they are much more likely to alter their opinions instead of denying the hard science.
          Your ability to bend reality to fit your preconceived notions is all I see going on here.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
        • lunchbreaker

          The fact that they used the word "could" validates the statement. And Topher, YOU are making the presuposition that the scientist would throw out a result they don't agree with. How about YOU wait for the scientists results before YOU make assumptions about work they have not completed.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
        • harlow13

          Topher – You would be an interesting fellow if you were to turn your critical eye to some of the things you assert here on the belief blog.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
      • ausphor

        Topher
        And yet when it comes to an ancient docu-ment you claimed that it would not pass the age test. Talk about presuppositions and hypocrisy!!! You really are a steaming pile.

        August 8, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
      • MidwestKen

        Topher,
        Not sure which atricle you're reading, but one scientist involved said, "the analysis, yet, is still very preliminary"

        August 8, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
      • LaBella

        Topher, they have found other bones from those extinct species before, that's why they know when how old the previously found bones of the species are.
        They are not saying that those bones in the cave are 25,000 years old. Just that they could be bones of the previously mentioned species, which have already been found and dated.

        August 8, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        why do you nit pick at the slightest scientific discrepancy and suggest that science itself is flawed ... when you can look at the bible which is almost totally flawed and say that your belief in it is enough. You're a fraud. A Tophraud.

        August 8, 2014 at 2:44 pm |
      • ausphor

        Topherism (also known as Phileoism) is the ability of a person to reject all knowledge that does not agree with that persons a priori beliefs.
        Topher, I don't think I have ever come in contact with a more cowardly person than you are; I will give thanks that when I was in service I did not have to depend on a weasel like you to cover my back, you would run away. You prove it on a daily basis.

        August 8, 2014 at 2:49 pm |
      • Science Works

        Hey topher – did you forget a keyword – reopen?

        Wyoming Cave With Fossil Secrets to Be Excavated – ABC ...
        abcnews.go.com › TechnologyABC News
        Jul 24, 2014 – Natural Trap Cave in north-central Wyoming is 85 feet deep and almost ... Now, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management is preparing to reopen a

        August 8, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
        • ausphor

          Science
          Do not try and confuse our Topher with a reality check, it will not work, the delusion will continue.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:45 pm |
        • Science Works

          ausphor – topher sold his supposed soul to the company store maybe ? (the bible?)

          But thanks to topher maybe he should read the comments
          from link below – hilarious.

          On front page of CNN .

          http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/09/us/wyoming-prehistoric-remains/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

          August 10, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
      • awanderingscot

        @Topher
        shame on you brother Topher, why didn't you see those "scientists" running around that cave in their white lab coats?

        – actually, my apology Topher. You were actually referring to evolution and not hard science, i get it now.

        August 8, 2014 at 11:14 pm |
        • Science Works

          Hey Scott – Wyoming is like you with evolution -do you live there ?

          And the dark matter ?

          https://www.snolab.ca/

          August 10, 2014 at 5:40 pm |
        • Science Works

          Hey Scot looks like you are still quacking up – or have you found your supposed soul ?

          August 11, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
        • evidencenot

          Awanderingsnot rejects evolution because....

          23.) Because the idea that life evolved naturally over billions of years is infinitely less believable than the idea that an 800 year old man crammed two of every species into a giant wooden boat when the entire planet flooded, an event for which there is absolutely no geological evidence whatsoever and also makes no friggin sense at all.

          24.) Because Jesus totally rode around on a t-rex. He’s just that badazzed. And also, did you know that t-rexes were vegetarians? Ken Ham says so and he believes it.

          August 12, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.