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August 22nd, 2014
07:00 AM ET

Why liberals are more tolerant of atheists

Opinion by Chris Stedman, special to CNN

(CNN) Conservative atheist and television pundit S.E. Cupp has come out swinging against progressive atheists.

In a clip (see above) for CNN’s “Crossfire,” she argues that conservative atheists are “better” than liberal nonbelievers. What’s more, Cupp says, those on the right respect and tolerate atheists more than liberals do.

She’s wrong, and here are three reasons why.

Fact: Atheists are still political outcasts.

“It seems like there’s this idea perpetuated by atheists that atheists are somehow disenfranchised or left out of the political process,” Cupp says. “I just don’t find that to be the case.”

Survey data contradict Cupp.

For instance, a 2014 Pew Research study found that Americans are less likely to vote for an atheist presidential candidate than any other survey category—even if they share that candidate’s political views.

Faring better than atheists: candidates who have engaged in extramarital affairs and those with zero political experience.

And unless she recently had a change of heart, Cupp herself falls in line with the majority of Americans. In 2012 she said, “I would never vote for an atheist president. Ever.”

While atheists are making political inroads, we’re also still on the margins in a number of ways. Cupp concludes the clip by saying, “I think our atheists are better than yours.”

Apparently they’re still not good enough to be president.

Fact: Conservatives are hostile toward atheists.

“There’s another myth: that conservatism is somehow hostile to atheism,” Cupp says. “I’m a conservative atheist (and) I’ve felt very welcomed.”

But Cupp goes beyond arguing that conservatives broadly welcome nontheists—she also argues that liberals are less accepting of atheists.

“I’d go so far as to say conservatism is far more intellectually honest and respectful of atheism than liberalism has been,” she says.

Again, Pew’s surveys suggest otherwise.

While the number of people who say they wouldn't vote for an atheist candidate sits at 70% among Republicans, that number drops to 42% among Democrats. (“Progressive,” “liberal,” and “Democrat” certainly aren’t synonyms, but there is overlap.)

Of course, conservative hostility toward atheists goes beyond voting for a presidential candidate.

Earlier this year, the group American Atheists announced plans to sponsor a table at CPAC, the country’s largest annual gathering of conservatives. But within hours, after a number of conservatives spoke out against their inclusion, they were promptly uninvited.

Many of the most prominent anti-atheist voices—including Sarah Palin, Erick Erickson, Mike Huckabee and Newt Gingrich—are conservative politicians and commentators, and I have yet to hear many other conservatives (Cupp included) condemn their anti-atheist remarks.

On the other hand, a number of political moderates and liberals have welcomed nontheists.

In 2009, for example, President Barack Obama became the first commander in chief to reference nonbelievers in an inaugural address. The next year, his administration became the first to meet with representatives from the atheist community.

Overall, a much larger percentage of the religiously unaffiliated (a category that includes many atheists) identify as liberal than conservative.

In 2012, Pew reported that 61 percent of nonreligious Americans are either Democrat or lean Democrat, while just 27 percent identify as or lean Republican.

If it truly were the case that conservatives are much more “respectful of atheism,” I would expect to see more Republican atheists.

Fact: Most liberals respect religious diversity.

“Conservatives appreciate an intellectual diversity,” Cupp says. “In contrast, on the left it seems as though there is this knee-jerk embrace of what is more like a militant hostility to faith.”

If you’ve been paying attention to Cupp’s arguments so far, this one should be a bit confusing. Which is it? Are liberals hostile toward atheists—or the religious? (Or are liberals just hostile toward everyone?)

But religious diversity is actually significantly greater among Democrats—for example, Pew reported in 2011 that just 11% of Muslims affiliate with Republicans, while 60% identify as or lean Democrat.

By contrast, as much as 74% of GOP voters identify as Christian, according to recent surveys and polls.

Finally, Cupp lifts up self-identified progressive Bill Maher—who has said, among other things, that religious believers have a “neurological disorder”—as an example of liberal intolerance.

I should give credit where it’s due: Cupp is partially right here. Maher’s take on religion is problematic and should be condemned.

But his views certainly aren’t representative of most of the progressive atheists I know. Suggesting that Maher speaks for atheism is like saying Pat Robertson represents all of Christianity.

In the end, I’m not arguing that progressives are perfect. We have plenty of our own issues and aren’t as welcoming of atheists or some believers as we could be.

But to say that we’re less tolerant of religious and nonreligious diversity than conservatives? Well, that’s just hard to believe.

Chris Stedman is Executive Director of the Yale Humanist Community, author of "Faitheist," and atheist columnist for Religion News Service. Follow him on Twitter @ChrisDStedman. The views expressed in this column belong to Stedman. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Atheism • Culture wars • Discrimination • Nones • Opinion • Politics • Prejudice

soundoff (3,322 Responses)
  1. kristinagadfly

    Why do Christians get so obsessed with their desires of the flesh, because they disrespect woman, we end up raping you with our bodies, and then because you couldn't see past our lady bumps, now you're all screwed up wanting to get another man, the man that screwed you up in the first place to put you back together...

    Why couldn't you have just started out seeing us woman as equals? eyeroll

    August 29, 2014 at 12:28 am |
    • austin929

      I would have to get to know you to treat you like that. never been married.

      and to be perfectly honest, most the people I know are co-exhisting together and its ordinary.. and its supposed to be ordinary. that's what we should be content and happy with.

      I am not shorting the value of your person I think that there is something to cleaving as two people that is unrepeatable and unique to the two of you......................there are many unhappy people, people die in domestic arguments.

      I cant marry a woman if I'm in love with here and she does not bond spiritually with me and God together, effectively.

      been there once.

      August 29, 2014 at 12:46 am |
  2. colin31714

    To any Christian out there who believes that morality is predicated upon the existence of the Judeo-Christian god, how do you think your behavior would change if you found out 100% he did not exist?

    August 28, 2014 at 11:34 pm |
    • austin929

      I don't think I should use my imagination vainly and really think it out. The sanctifying work of conviction , is something very real to me. I used to be free to the flesh, but I have learned through the spirit the course of sin or any vice, or bad branch, and how that is a core conflict and insanity. I don't know any other way than what I have learned, not from parents but through spiritual life. and I don't think I can imagine what its like not to feel the way I do now. but s.exua promiscuityl, I think anger and revenge would be one too. forgiveness. why do that? that only provides residual conflict. what other aspects you wanna think about ?

      um, obviously the age of the earth I would totally let go on that, but being alive in Christ, I know that evolution is the apple that we eat to bypass the salvation gospel ultimately. It challenges Genesis. I would not have believed genesis though, but I have experienced the new testament promises and the presence of the Spirit made known .

      everything would be different. that's a major difference on so much. politics would be changed.

      what else? any particular specifics?

      August 29, 2014 at 12:00 am |
      • Sungrazer

        "I don't think I should use my imagination vainly and really think it out."

        It is not imagination. It is honest, free inquiry. You must disagree with Galileo when he said:

        "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them."

        August 29, 2014 at 12:04 am |
        • austin929

          Sungrazer, I am sure I could find some technological excitements out there on a neutral ground, but as Solomon reveals in ecclesiastes, there is nothing new under the sun, and there never will be. and vanity is the empty road when you KNOW, that true joy is found in your personal encounter with God.

          Gods love is the deepest and most secure love that is unwavering, and eternal. My soul has declared true life to be greater than the flesh and desire. God is greater.

          August 29, 2014 at 12:11 am |
        • austin929

          Sungrazer, can you provide some down to earth examples of personal examples exemplifying your quote? such as vacation or what ........recreation or spiritual experiences have deepened your contentedness ........when you finally had the experience......

          i.e.................

          August 29, 2014 at 12:14 am |
        • Sungrazer

          It's possible I misunderstood what you said about using your imagination.

          August 29, 2014 at 12:17 am |
        • austin929

          imagination..........ya I see your point that is deep. and unknown. we have room for more input , always.

          but perspective and wisdom , are needed to handle the knowledge.

          there are people who live on goats, chickens, and fetch water in the desert. and look at the families in mexico. They are special , and they are coming here with nothing but their lives. and in many ways they have more than a lot of us.

          August 29, 2014 at 12:38 am |
        • In Santa We Trust

          austin
          "...as Solomon reveals in ecclesiastes, there is nothing new under the sun ..."

          Did he say that from an air-conditioned room while watching satellite TV and reading his bible on his tablet?

          August 29, 2014 at 5:36 pm |
      • austin929

        I don't live a consecrated life, and I should because God has always rewarded me for doing so. It can be metabolism and lust........self run riot.. I get out there and start suffering and then I return. It gets worse. Its not like the silver linings in the clouds every day.

        I have chronic sinus related migranes and eye pain/ sensitivity to sunlight etc. and those days do ya think I am a decent person to be around? i'm not.

        The Lord picks me up and through His salvation, His act of salvation, I am completed by God . I know that this type of a knowledge of God comes with very real tests. I check out for months sometimes. its real enough that I could not marry a non believer. and other than that...............The Lord is There and that is totally radical and awesome and exiting.

        August 29, 2014 at 12:07 am |
      • kristinagadfly

        Yawn, poor boy lost in a fantasy with god... Your man god can satisfy you like no woman could...eyeroll....

        August 29, 2014 at 12:26 am |
        • austin929

          very true! but on the flip side we aren't talking about some fine nice hot. .............booty and breasts, and honey in the mouth. and the neck.........her hair......her navel.

          I am single, I have been in love. There is no way a woman could complete who I am as a person. But God has taken me down that road of completion.

          August 29, 2014 at 12:34 am |
        • ausphor

          ausrin
          So jesus is your j-erk off buddy, you should join a monastery, they aggept even encourage that sort of behaviour.

          August 29, 2014 at 7:50 am |
        • ausphor

          austin
          accept
          Need coffee.

          August 29, 2014 at 7:51 am |
    • kristinagadfly

      Colin, they know that god doesn't exist its a male cult, Jesus is a cover...

      August 29, 2014 at 12:34 am |
    • believerfred

      Colin
      How would your morality change if Jesus was proven to be God. Your trap will snare both of us.

      August 29, 2014 at 1:09 am |
      • G to the T

        For me, personally, I don't believe it would. I'm pretty sure you could find Christians today that share my views on most moral issues.

        August 29, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
        • believerfred

          G to the T
          At conversion I became new in Christ so it is hard to imagine to any significant change in morals. There is not a downside to my life style for myself or others whose lives I touch and a net positive effect on the World as I have generated resources for others greater than I have consumed.

          August 29, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
        • G to the T

          Fred – sorry but I'm honestly not sure what you were trying to say here. Your morals didn't change after your conversion?

          September 1, 2014 at 11:17 am |
  3. kristinagadfly

    These Christians want my flesh, they want to bury themselves in my skin...

    The act just like Muslims, only they want to find more private spaces to commit their evil deeds...

    August 28, 2014 at 11:28 pm |
    • LaBella

      Oh, I think not.

      August 29, 2014 at 12:16 am |
      • kristinagadfly

        You don't think, you just act psychotic

        August 29, 2014 at 12:20 am |
        • LaBella

          Somebody must have hurt you terribly in the past. I'm sorry.

          August 29, 2014 at 10:31 am |
    • austin929

      both of you !

      August 29, 2014 at 12:48 am |
  4. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    What's become of scot? He's lost his faith? And he's transgender? And on Red Bull too?

    August 28, 2014 at 10:49 pm |
    • kristinagadfly

      I want to talk to this Scotty, and I hope you didn't turn him into a tranny, seems Chrstians turn people gay or tranny for some reason..

      He might be someone good to converse with, or he might have been so screwed up by you guys, he is now incoherent...

      August 28, 2014 at 11:31 pm |
      • G to the T

        "I want to talk to this Scotty"

        Why do I feel like we already are?

        August 29, 2014 at 4:05 pm |
    • Sungrazer

      It is interesting speculation..

      August 28, 2014 at 11:37 pm |
  5. kristinagadfly

    Let me go over some definitions for the peanut gallery, an intellectual can only start out as a prodigy, no education will make an academic an intellectual...If you do not have a foundation and understanding by 12, you can go to college for 20 years and you will never reach the level of an intellectual, the best you can do is fake it...

    A prodigy doesn't have to be incredible intelligent either, just have instructive comprehension of the fundamental knowledge base which is core knowledge to preform...

    If you don't achieve this core knowledge base by the age of 12, there is no amount of education which will make up for the deficit...Welcome to mediocrity

    August 28, 2014 at 10:03 pm |
    • truthfollower01

      Kristina,

      What led you to embrace atheism and reject God?

      August 28, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        What led me? knowledge and lack of abuse in following a fantasy of god...I didn't turn from god, I wasn't child abused to accept god...

        August 28, 2014 at 10:07 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          Do you believe morality exists?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:10 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          Morality is either an artefactual concept defined by an immoral demand of subjugation and oppression or, it is a convention of the greater whole to live together without strife honoring our small individual diversities...

          I promote the greater whole for our greater whole interest, which suffers no one an arbitrary burden, which does not serve that interest...

          August 28, 2014 at 10:14 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          What is this knowledge you speak of that led you to embrace atheism?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:14 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          the entire knowledge of the universe that you reject...

          August 28, 2014 at 10:22 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          So on atheism, morality, generally speaking, is just a matter of opinion or taste? Would you agree with this?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:19 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          are you deranged? how did you derived that from what I said?

          Are you even paying attention?

          Does the collective suffer individuals arbitrary burdens because it suits the loudest fancy?

          That is religion after all...

          August 28, 2014 at 10:24 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          "the entire knowledge of the universe that you reject…"

          Can you be a little more specific? I believe the existence of the universe points to a Creator.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:25 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          "are you deranged? how did you derived that from what I said?"

          Because ultimately you're just giving your opinion of what morality is. What if Hitler determined morality to be based on how much harm he could do to someone? What if he determined moral goodness to equal death and torture? On atheism, is he wrong?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:30 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          Look fantasy queen, because of theists and fake god beliefs there are way more fantasy queen deranged super geniuses in this world that rational people that have the knowledge of the universe, so do not kidnap me to hold your hand and walk you through simple, because there are way more people on this world than your confused and abused self...

          NEXT....

          August 28, 2014 at 10:40 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          It was poor grammar that led this one from theism. So often the case.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:36 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          Kristina,

          Was that supposed to be an argument for atheism and against theism? I certainly hope not.

          Now, back to the question. What is the specific knowledge you speak of that led you to embrace atheism? Why won't you answer this?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:44 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          I hope Islam by Shira law punks out and destroys every christian in the Mideast. just so you Christians learn a lesson not to try and dominate Atheists the same way in the US...

          All legal like, they can legally create laws in the mideast and outlaw Christians, so you will learn to step off Atheists... in the US?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:47 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          So on your view, if they disagree with you, kill them?

          Wow.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:50 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          My view is go do teh same to me, as Islam does to you... lol

          psycho

          August 28, 2014 at 10:54 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          I want to leave you with this tonight.

          Answer a few questions for me if you would.
          1. How many lies would you say you’ve told in your life?
          2. Have you ever stolen anything regardless of its value?
          3. Have you ever used God’s name as a curse word? (called blasphemy)
          4.have you ever looked at a woman/man lustfully?(if so, Jesus said you have committed adultery with that person in your heart.)
          If you’re like me, you are a self professed lying, stealing, blaspheming adulterer at heart or some form thereof. A holy God must punish wickedness, otherwise He wouldn’t be just. Given your confession, will you be guilty or innocent? If you’re like me and everyone else on this board, you are guilty. However, God provided a way for salvation through the blood of His innocent Son who took the punishment on the cross, that we might be declared innocent. Think of it like this. You’re in a court room. you’re guilty as you’ve professed. Someone walks in and pays your fine for you. Now the judge can legally dismiss your case and let you go. This is the gospel message. What you must do is repent (turn from your sins) and follow Jesus as Lord. This following is enabled by God when He gives you new desires and a heart that wants to please God instead of the flesh.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:55 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          you're a horrifying monster...

          August 28, 2014 at 11:00 pm |
        • joey3467

          truthfollower thanks for once again showing that morality is subjective with you genocide example.

          August 29, 2014 at 10:34 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Are you yet 12?

      August 28, 2014 at 10:06 pm |
    • kristinagadfly

      We assign these values for a reason, like any athletic performance, the same goes for intellectual performance, you can learn to play great golf in your teens, but you will probably never be better than someone who learned in their childhood...

      August 28, 2014 at 10:06 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        This just isn't true...your premise is flawed. Whether you are good at something or not has little to do with when you started and everything to do with how much time and effort you have put into it. An intellectual you are not.

        August 28, 2014 at 10:39 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          A small group of fruitloops want to take all my time...

          August 28, 2014 at 10:41 pm |
  6. truthfollower01

    Kristina,

    Are you an atheist? If so, why?

    August 28, 2014 at 9:52 pm |
    • Doris

      Oh- tf, by all means, let me introduce you to kristin. kristin is an atheist humanist.

      August 28, 2014 at 9:55 pm |
      • truthfollower01

        I'm interested to see why she chooses to go that route.

        August 28, 2014 at 9:57 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          Good luck getting a straight answer.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:01 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          It doesn't always work that way. To some atheists your question is like "why did you choose to not save string?".

          August 28, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          Ah, I interpreted the statement differently. Like "why that persona?".

          August 28, 2014 at 10:04 pm |
    • Sungrazer

      Non sequitur question.. Do you agree with William Lane Craig that there is absolute vs. relative morality, objective vs. subjective reality? In other words, absolute morality is not the same as objective morality? Guidedans (a theist) is arguing otherwise, and I was just curious.

      August 28, 2014 at 11:41 pm |
      • guidedans

        I read that Craig guy. I don't think that he is correct about the opposites of those terms. The opposite of objective would be non-objective. The opposite of universal would be non-universal, the opposite of absolute would be not-absolute.

        Here's a definition of absolute: a value or principle that is regarded as universally valid or that may be viewed without relation to other things.

        Note that it mentions universality and unrelated to other things (subjects are things, so also not subjective)

        Objective means intrinsic to the object and therefore absolutely true about the object. If a truth is objective, it does not depend on the the object's position, so it is also universally true about that object. An Apple is an Apple. Objectively, Absolutely, and universally true.

        Same goes for absolute truths. Absolute truths are not subjective ones and they are not dependent upon position in the universe. They are true regardless of the subject and regardless of the location.

        And same goes for universal truths, they are objective (the object is just the universe), and they are absolute, that is, always true in every situation.

        To put it another way, Universal truths are absolute, objective truths about the universe. Absolute truths are true universally, regardless of the subject determining the truth. And Objective truths are absolute truths about an object regardless of its position in the universe.

        I think the terms are interchangeable because I think that each of their definitions contain the other two concepts.

        August 29, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
        • observer

          guidedans,

          The closest thing to a universal truth is mathematics.

          The OWNERSHIP of another person is NOT a universal truth. it takes a HEARTLESS person to support slavery..

          August 29, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          It is interesting that you say "that Craig guy".

          I think I have a problem with how you define opposites, by sticking "not-" in front of everything. Is the opposite of happiness not-happiness? That would encompass everything that isn't happiness, which is everything else in the entire range of human emotions – anger, fear, pride, etc. For me, the opposite of happiness would be whatever is on the end of the happiness continuum. Call it sadness. For you, happiness and sadness are not opposites; happiness and non-happiness are opposites, as are sadness and not-sadness. It sounds like you would not say that objective and subjective are opposites.

          August 29, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • guidedans

          Observer,

          Not sure if you read my response to your attacks on my point of view, but the gist of it is that, I understand that slavery, in practice, results in horrible and immoral actions. But the concept of slavery is not inherently immoral. There can be situations where, in the hands of a just, good, and compassionate master that being that person's servant would be ideal.

          I liken it to communism. Communism is not immoral in itself, but when people try to put it into practice, it results in horrible and immoral actions. There are plenty of things in this category: religion, dictatorships, mob rule, protests, capitalism, mercantilism, indebtedness, socialism, etc. The list goes on and on. You can rarely make a blanket statement that a system is immoral. Only that its results are immoral under certain circu.mstances.

          August 29, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
        • guidedans

          Sungrazer,

          You might be right about my definition of opposites. I guess, I have always had a problem with the concept of "opposite." You are correct that I have basically just said that, in order to be opposite, you must have two mutually exclusive, yet totally exhaustive categories, which may be a bad way to define it. I would like to point out however that I believe that the whole concept of opposites is flawed because we are usually trying to compare two things that are not comparable. Like sunny and cloudy, night and day, cats and dogs, good and bad, black and white, happy and sad. I would argue that all of these combinations are not really opposites, but just different things that impact one another. It could be both sunny and cloudy outside. Night and day are just points on a continuum, what would dawn or dusk be? dogs and cats are clearly not opposites, just different animals. Good and bad are also continuum based and an action could be as good as it is bad (e.g., killing a baby to save a mother or vice versa). Happiness and Sadness are just two different emotions, just like the dogs and cats idea. Why couldn't we say that terror was the opposite of happiness or that excitement was the opposite of sadness.

          I think that we like to organize everything into categories and then apply a sort of meta-data to those categories to organize the categories into related things or opposite things. I might be wrong in my definition, but I am not sure that Dr. Craig is more right.

          Also, no disrespect toward that Craig guy. I am sure he is exceptionally intelligent. Probably more so than me. I am just informal in my shoutouts.

          August 29, 2014 at 5:09 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          I think it's acceptable to say some of your examples are opposites (night and day, black and white, happiness and sadness) and I agree that some don't make sense (cats and dogs). Something like night and day can be put on a continuum something along the lines of "amount of sunlight received by the Earth". "Night" would be minimal amount, "day" would be maximal amount. As opposed to cats and dogs, in which case it doesn't seem possible to pose a realistic continuum where they are at opposite ends. What we're calling those opposite ends may not be precise, but I do think they exist, given a valid continuum.

          So I guess coming back around to absolute vs. relative and objective vs. subjective, the question is whether one concept in one of the pairs is at the opposite end of the other concept in the same pair. Seems reasonable to me but I will be doing some research.

          August 29, 2014 at 5:31 pm |
  7. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    I see my cat's been a nuisance to everyone this evening, and I apologize. Pay it no mind and it'll come back inside eventually.

    August 28, 2014 at 9:29 pm |
  8. kristinagadfly

    It seems I got 15 hits off my blog just today, mostly from the US, and CNN, it also seems be theographic data, they were all from theists...

    August 28, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
    • kristinagadfly

      which means no matter how many times you lie, the data says you're theist trolls posing...

      August 28, 2014 at 9:18 pm |
  9. kristinagadfly

    A whole comment line filled with people who learned everything from TV, Movies, songs and music videos with complete detachment from actual concept...

    Psychosis NOS target rich environment...

    August 28, 2014 at 9:05 pm |
    • kristinagadfly

      Lets not forget your google and wiki

      August 28, 2014 at 9:06 pm |
  10. kristinagadfly

    I'll give a google assignment to Mr Vestibule forget about Chifferobe, tell me what a secretary is...

    August 28, 2014 at 8:44 pm |
  11. kristinagadfly

    I'd really like to talk to this scotty person, judging by the people dogging him, he may or may not be worth talking too...

    August 28, 2014 at 8:33 pm |
    • In Santa We Trust

      Is it really a conversation when one talks to an alter ego?

      August 28, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        Ask yourself and tell us...

        August 28, 2014 at 9:16 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Do you have disassociate personality disorder?
          That makes 36 of us!

          August 28, 2014 at 9:33 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          lol, I love it, I am humbled by vestibule... I only had a single association and found many more...

          That is awesome, I enjoy feeling stupid...

          Anyways...

          That was an original gag by Groucho, he use to do that...My family was very wordy so they would use words like vestibule more often than this what even Groucho thought of as dumming down of America...

          The clash between proper colloquialisms and modern has been great for humor...Which shows have even the most educated are but, dilettantes in verbiage...

          Education always needs a foundation or base, without that any discipline becomes useless and incompetent, dominated by pontificates without elemental understanding and lots of personality and verbiage...

          I always enjoyed listening to William F Buckley Jr for such pontificated dexterity...What a marvel to follow...

          August 28, 2014 at 9:44 pm |
  12. kristinagadfly

    This string hasn't gone anywhere in hours, but trolls are on station as always... Trolls are so predictable...

    August 28, 2014 at 8:29 pm |
    • kristinagadfly

      Go look up what "on station" means, hint duty station...

      August 28, 2014 at 8:29 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        You might be surprised at how many former soldiers frequent this blog.
        Be wary of both your own bias and your assumptions.

        August 28, 2014 at 8:44 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          I eat you pathetic losers who couldn't get a day job, and thought you'd have endless value all of your days for fight...

          I still punk out that baby killer from Nam in the lobby of my building, all shell shocked trying to make endless excuses for killing babies...

          And yes, ex vets with no skills going in, no skills coming out would be on station in the blog, because you cannot get a job...

          PS: thank you for your service...My dad was Navy, asked for nothing after he came home...

          August 28, 2014 at 8:48 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          I neither stated nor implied that I am a former soldier.
          Beware your bias and your assumptions.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:50 pm |
  13. kristinagadfly

    The Doctor is in...

    August 28, 2014 at 8:26 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Word.

      August 28, 2014 at 8:32 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        Just the Doctor...You can leave your vestibule in the hallway,,, I have this sinking feeling you don't even know what a vestibule is...

        August 28, 2014 at 8:35 pm |
        • LaBella

          I have a feeling you overestimate your intellectual prowess quite a bit, considering you've added nothing but juvenile insults to any conversation you deigned to enter.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:39 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          That was extremely articulate for an ad hominem

          August 28, 2014 at 8:43 pm |
        • LaBella

          You have shown yourself to be adept at ad hominem; I am glad you had a moment of self-awareness.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:45 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          lol, demon!

          August 28, 2014 at 8:52 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          That's a lot of judgement to pass on a monosyllabic post.
          Perhaps I'm just a fan of the term since word is the ultimate word as it epitomizes itself.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:47 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          So you watched the Marx Brothers and you got that Doc Vestibule stuck in your head, way back there on the road some...

          But yet, you never knew what a vestibule was...

          Go look in your hallway, maybe you'll find one...

          August 28, 2014 at 8:55 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          Who is the OD today?

          August 28, 2014 at 8:56 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          I am not making any assumptions I am making assertions...and inferences...

          Don't bother warning me, I don't listen...

          August 28, 2014 at 9:12 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Marx brothers?
          Humoladonne Q. Vestibule is a moniker I concocted nearly 20 years ago while saving a friend from having to do real work while they manned an Air Miles sign up booth.
          It comes from an old Davy Barry joke I had read years before in which he makes fun of the then President's lengthy and very white name... " George Herbert Walker Piedmont Vestibule Bush III"
          Just as in real life, the doctorate came later.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:17 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          So your friend liked the Marx Brothers and you still don't know what a vestibule is...

          August 28, 2014 at 9:20 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          Well allow me to explain how double humor of ignorant people work over time, when humor is reused... because when Groucho Marx used it, it was funny, because you'd have to be a complete idiot back in the day, not to know what a vestibule is, by the time you're friend used the gag, more people had no clue what a vestibule was, but the word retains its humor, even though you don't even know why it was originally so funny..

          August 28, 2014 at 9:25 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Why would you assume that someone would adopt a moniker for 20 years without knowing its meaning?
          Would you care to enlighten me as to the your thoughts on "Humoladonne's" etymology?

          August 28, 2014 at 9:29 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          The word "vestibule"s usage isn't limited to the Marx Brothers.
          Prior to your mention of it, I wasn't even aware of the joke.
          In fact, googling it now I can't seem to find anything.
          If you have a link, it would be appreciated.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:32 pm |
  14. kristinagadfly

    I did mention I was the Antichrist right?

    August 28, 2014 at 8:15 pm |
    • tallulah131

      You give yourself too much credit, scotty. You're just a troll.

      August 28, 2014 at 8:19 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        Stop projecting what you are on me, Freud did a paper on you, and the subjective projective...one of the only great things he ever mentioned, only he was a little off...

        Today we might call in correspondence bias by evasive personality types...

        I can break you apart and look inside your head, from 3 sentences...You aint fooling me troll, you're a troll that sits on this bridge trying to prevent people from crossing..

        August 28, 2014 at 8:24 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Get over it, scotty. I'm onto your game.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:29 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          Captain, I'm giving it all she's got?

          August 28, 2014 at 8:30 pm |
    • Doris

      I think you did. But I think those who believe in such beings would say one is an antichrist, not the antichrist. And it's a good thing you're not that alleged baby antichrist that a well educated group burned up in a bonfire a few years back.

      August 28, 2014 at 8:20 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      If you are against Jesus, then you are antichrist. The antichrist is an entirely different critter and I would be surprised if you are it.

      August 28, 2014 at 8:24 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        eyeroll

        August 28, 2014 at 8:26 pm |
      • Doris

        I heard it was meaner 'n a Chupacabra.

        August 28, 2014 at 8:28 pm |
      • kudlak

        See, to me, Jesus is an entirely different critter than this "Christ" character. Jesus I can kinda like, even if some of his advice was really misguided and he was clearly wrong about a bunch of things. If all that "I'm God" stuff really was put into his mouth, I can actually feel a bit sad for the guy, being made a blasphemy to his faith like that.

        August 28, 2014 at 9:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Plenty are antichrist, but only my cat could be the Antichrist.

      August 28, 2014 at 8:26 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        Believe!

        August 28, 2014 at 8:27 pm |
        • kudlak

          Funny, I have a Christmas tree ornament of Santa with that on it.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:53 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          Stay on station...

          August 28, 2014 at 8:55 pm |
    • kudlak

      If you're the Antichrist I'll give you a tip, READ REVELATION AND COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT PLAN!!!!

      Honestly, if Christians actually believe that this Antichrist fellow will have full access to his enemies' plans and still make the same lame mistakes what kind of evil mastermind could he possibly be?

      August 28, 2014 at 8:42 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        You really don't understand how anything works do you? you're like making it up with insecure ego as you go...

        August 28, 2014 at 8:45 pm |
        • kudlak

          Come on! Elmer Fudd would make a better Antichrist than the bozo described in Revelation.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:51 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          You can hate me now
          ....Cause I won't stop now...

          August 28, 2014 at 8:53 pm |
        • LaBella

          But I won't stop now.. cause I can't stop now..
          You can hate me now.. you can hate me NOWWWW..

          August 28, 2014 at 9:00 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          You have no right to sing along...

          August 28, 2014 at 9:02 pm |
        • kudlak

          Well, it's Apocalypse Karaoke Night here on the CNN Belief Blog...

          August 28, 2014 at 9:07 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          Kudlak,

          Lol, I've been laughing all evening. You should read the couple of pages prior to this one.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:21 pm |
        • LaBella

          Gadfly, you have no say in the matter...

          August 29, 2014 at 12:13 am |
        • kristinagadfly

          Im the last word in the matter...

          August 29, 2014 at 12:20 am |
        • kudlak

          Robert
          Yup! The Apocalypse is a pretty funny topic, all right!

          August 29, 2014 at 10:13 am |
  15. blessed137

    What God is screaming from the end's of the earth: Are you ready unbeliever to meet God? The evidence you have been asking for is just around the corner. Your day of judgement is near. Seek Him now, do not perish in your sins. Receive the gift of salvation through His son Jesus Christ before it is too late.
    youtube.com/watch?v=psZePPDKbgI
    youtube.com/watch?v=51_OTidEfBY

    August 28, 2014 at 7:52 pm |
    • Bob

      The whole Jesus-sacrifice-salvation thing that you are selling is a steaming pile of bull-do. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      August 28, 2014 at 7:59 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        This kind of sacrifice follows no logic: I will take the most valuable thing I have and destroy it some rituals thrown in. Something more powerful than myself will be impressed and help me out in some way. The Standard God, caught in this system of sacrifice, had to come up with something of ultimate value, itself, and sacrifice it to the only sufficiently powerful thing – itself. It seems consistent, but what maniac thought of this system in the first place?

        August 28, 2014 at 8:21 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          As a lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:34 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          I remember you mentioned that blood was a central element in this, Robert. Have you insight as to why?

          August 28, 2014 at 8:37 pm |
        • kudlak

          Blood sacrifice was pretty common in primitive religion, and sacrificing a virgin was deemed particularly potent.

          Jesus was still a virgin, wasn't he?

          August 28, 2014 at 8:47 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          One interesting fact, the first mention of blood in the bible was when God told Cain that the voice of his brothers blood cried from the ground.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:49 pm |
        • kudlak

          Robert
          Women having their periods wasn't mentioned in God's curse upon Eve, eh?

          Well, that really shows that only men wrote the Bible, doesn't it?

          August 28, 2014 at 9:04 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          When Noah and his family came out of the ark, God told them they could eat all moving creatures but not to eat them with the blood, alive or raw, as I take it, equating blood with life. Then in Exodus God tells them to paint the door posts with blood to protect them from the death of all the firstborn in Egypt.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:30 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          Leviticus 17:11
          For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:41 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          So, in just the first 3 books of the bible we are told some important things about blood. God hears its voice. It is life. It is protection from the destroyer. It atones for sin.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:46 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Years ago I used to grow dissociated cells from livers for studies on gene regulation. They required a lot of things to live and grow, but I was successful in replacing everything blood can provide. So, no, life doesn't require blood. Ah... Also, I saw a mouse once whose blood had been replaced by a fluid with extraordinary ability to dissolve and deliver oxygen. It was quite alive.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:51 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          God may hear the blood. I did once. A karate student clocked me fairly well once. I didn't go completely out, but I clearly heard the blood in my ears: "Flintstones Meet the Flintstones...."

          August 28, 2014 at 9:57 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          You've done some awesome things Tom. How long did the mouse live on the fluid? Could a human live on it?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:00 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "So, in just the first 3 books of the bible we are told some important things about blood. God hears its voice. It is life. It is protection from the destroyer. It atones for sin".

          So then, your deity is subject to (a system in) Reality, and not it's master.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:08 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          The mouse work was cool, but I wasn't involved. The purpose was to find a blood replacement for emergency use. The fluid contained a freon-like compound that had unacceptable liver toxicity.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:32 pm |
        • kudlak

          Robert
          When the Aztecs removed the hearts from their sacrificial victims they had this same primitive belief in blood, right? Seems like just common sense to me. Poke enough holes in an animal while hunting, most of its blood flows out, and then it dies. You don't need some god to see the cause and effect.

          August 29, 2014 at 9:37 am |
    • atlantic9

      I'm going to be arrested and charged? What with oh clairvoyant one ?

      August 28, 2014 at 7:59 pm |
    • blessed137

      In 2012 I had a prophetic dream of a 200 ft Tsunami that is going to take out the east coast. I recently discovered that many other believers are having/have had the same prophetic dream/vision. There detailed account of the size of the wave 200 ft are consistent. In the dream I was standing on the bay bridge in Chester MD where I use to live. The wave was towering over the bridge eyeballing, approx 20 ft. The bay bridge is 186 ft. One of the people said her daughter 3 years old came to her one morning and said "guess what mommy, people are going to drown". She asked her what do you mean, she said " the sea is going to come up and cover the land, the houses are going to fill up with water and people are going to drown".

      August 28, 2014 at 8:07 pm |
      • midwest rail

        So you all saw the same Discovery Channel show about the Cubre Vieja. Meh.

        August 28, 2014 at 8:11 pm |
        • blessed137

          No. I havent seen that.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:17 pm |
        • tallulah131

          I saw that one. It was interesting, but nature very seldom does what we think it will. It's stubborn like that.

          I was thinking that this "prophet" saw something on the Sci Fi Channel, like "Wave-nado" or something.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:23 pm |
        • Doris

          "Wave-nado"

          LOL

          August 28, 2014 at 8:26 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        Is that you Austin?

        August 28, 2014 at 8:14 pm |
        • blessed137

          No. Is that something austin would tell you?

          August 28, 2014 at 8:20 pm |
        • Doris

          Now if blessed's dreams converged with austin's dreams – we might just have a wave-nado on our hands...

          August 28, 2014 at 8:27 pm |
        • blessed137

          Wait, or you saying that Austin was telling you the same thing?

          August 28, 2014 at 8:39 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Not exactly the same thing but you both make HUGE claims of prophecies and yet I doubt either of you comprehend what you're speaking about.
          Saying you had a 'prophecy' about a natural occurring event that didn't happen is fallacious.
          I understand that you are trying to make this seem like you are getting special messages from your best friend, the imaginary god but even biblical prophecies are considered false and are easily explained.
          What you are doing instead of convincing anyone of these so-called messages is instead convincing people that you're suffering from some form of delusion.
          Mass belief does not equate to fact...so if 100 people share similar stories of their visions/dreams, you can usually chock it up to mob mentality.

          August 29, 2014 at 7:56 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Not the same thing....same crazy...you are both as nutty as squirrell droppings.

          August 29, 2014 at 1:03 am |
      • tallulah131

        So how is it a prophetic dream if it didn't actually happen?

        August 28, 2014 at 8:21 pm |
        • blessed137

          So you expect it to happen immediately?

          August 28, 2014 at 8:37 pm |
        • tallulah131

          You can't actually call it prophetic until it happens. What you had was a dream. Anything more is you just pretending that you're special.

          August 29, 2014 at 1:24 am |
      • thesamyaza

        you do realize that a 200 foot tsunami is not an accurate detail of the wave, when people see a tsunami they say its a 200 foot tsunami.

        August 28, 2014 at 8:41 pm |
        • blessed137

          I do not know how they measure a tsunami. All I know is that in my dream the top of the wave was approx 20 ft taller than the bay bridge which is 186 ft. Others are saying the Tsunami is going to be 200 ft tall. Point is 200 ft. Thats a whole lotta water.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:53 pm |
        • thesamyaza

          well then fair enough, look then its good your talking about it, just talking about the event may be enough to alter the probability of it occurrence. time is not some liner path it is more of a bowl of soup, you may further be able to change the outcome, what were you wearing. i find that the out come can be changed greatly by simply throwing away the outfit you were wearing during the dream, you would be surprised of the little thing that can move that probability from .0002044856284738648 to .0002044856284748648 and set us upon a new "world line;" of course if you knew the date and time simply not being their will help.

          respect the deja-vuyou feel that because your mind has already dreamed the event. i mean i utilized it just the other day. (anecdotal)when i remember i dreamnt of playing a game that i have yet to buy which would letter turn out to be fortune summoner while playing the game i had deja-vu, i went to my dream journal and remembered my neighbor Thom had a heart attack in my dream going next door i check on him, he was in fact on the floor from a heart attack, i called the ambulance and his fine now.

          so me buying game led to neighbor having a heart attack, fucking butterfly

          August 28, 2014 at 9:48 pm |
        • ausphor

          Kristen
          Being a problem solver may I suggest you never go near the bridge again, if you are not there the prophecy can never be fulfilled because you won't be there, carry on.

          August 29, 2014 at 8:17 am |
        • ausphor

          meant for blessed.

          August 29, 2014 at 8:18 am |
        • thesamyaza

          yeas that's quite right, he/she should move some were flat, of course if blessed wants to prove people wrong and kill a couple thousand then by all means carry on

          August 29, 2014 at 8:34 pm |
      • In Santa We Trust

        As we tell Austin, provide details of exactly what, how, and when as soon as you have the dream then all can judge how prophetic it is. Anything could just be in your mind.

        August 28, 2014 at 9:10 pm |
        • blessed137

          What are you talking about? I already had the dream in 2012. Did austin have a tsunami dream/vision?

          August 28, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          So it's not a prophesy then? I misunderstood.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:17 pm |
        • blessed137

          A prophecy is a message from God. It can be a word of edification, coming event, or a warning of judgement/disaster that will happen immediately or in the future. It can be in a vision while awake, or in a dream, or a audible voice.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:27 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Projections about Cumbre Vieja have been around since at least 2004. If you expect to be believed you need to publicly state the details so that it can be verified; the other part is it needs to be something unexpected. A tsunami from Cumbre Vieja does not fall into that category.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:32 pm |
        • austin929

          yes I had a dream about a tsunami and yes I had the dream in 2012, this one was WHEN I WAS IN JAIL ,

          I HAD ABOUT 10 VISIONS COME TRUE WHEN I WAS IN THERE. The supernatural realm was opened up all around me. I had this guy come up to me, showed me a blue print he drew.........and I said keep your eyes on me. I pulled out my file an I had mapped out his blueprint on paper from a dream I had 2 nights before.

          and yes the tsunami dream I also have on yellow paper, written down and I still remember the dream. I don't know where it was at though but there was a helicopter, and I was looking at water sucking people straight through parking garage like apparatus where whatever went in was totally gone, and there was power lines down in the water and stuff but I am thinking I should go find that one so we can compare it.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:44 pm |
        • blessed137

          Thats a good argument. For instance I could say there is going to be a volcano that is going to erupt somewhere on the east coast. You most likely would say big deal theres been hundreds of volcanos since the beginning of time. I know where your coming from, as there are possibilities of huge tsunamis and mega earthquakes. I dont need the discovery channel to tell me that. The exact details I dont have. I had a dream. The kind of prophetic evidence you want is the same kind of evidence you want concerning the existence of God. The discovery channel is saying this is a possibility, may or may not happen. Im saying it is going to happen.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:58 pm |
        • austin929

          I had the dream December 20 2011, I had it at 1 pm so I was taking a nap, and there were 957 people that died.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
        • midwest rail

          " Im saying it is going to happen."
          When ?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
        • blessed137

          Austin, WHAT!!!!!! Praise God for you man. I had no idea that you shared about this. Man I knew that it was not a dream. At the time I was living at my grandfathers house, on Kent Island in MD. I did not want to leave I loved it there. Was disappointed because after he passed away condo was put on market. After I had that dream I knew that it was a warning from God and my attachment to that place was gone like the speed of light and I was like of God I have to get out of here. There are many others who are coming forward about this. I never told anyone expect my close family who are believers because it sounds crazy.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:06 pm |
        • austin929

          I had the dream, it was in 2010, not 2011. but ya, if you feel like you had the one, I would encourage you to start getting up at night if you wake up from a dream, and write it down every time. keep a pad of paper and a pen at the side of the bed. And then always remember, test what is good and depart from evil. If you do have this gift, you will get darts thrown at you by the deceiver. I have had very powerful revelations, and then fallen back asleep and the devil comes in and tries to compete with a demonic revelation. The more you are aware of your gift which is actually a supernatural weapon from God , the evil one will attempt to derail you.

          Sometime these dreams are intended for someone in the body of Christ. this is called a conduit situation where you are gifted, and you get messages for other people. you edify them with your gift.

          God bless you too.,

          August 28, 2014 at 10:18 pm |
        • blessed137

          Okay austin will do. Be praying for me. I will be praying for you.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:40 pm |
        • Doris

          Oh no, all I did was go get some ice cream. And now look – sure enough – they are working on a wave-nado.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:46 pm |
        • Alias

          Austin, blesseed,
          i had a dream i would have great s e x in a variety of positions. When I woke up, my wife was right there and only half dressed – and the dream came true!
          What does that prove?
          I had a dream about a tornado last spring – and there were tornadoes in the midwest! Do you know what THAT roves?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:51 pm |
        • tallulah131

          It's a wave-nado of crazy.

          August 29, 2014 at 1:25 am |
        • thesamyaza

          blessed137

          A prophecy is a message from God.

          um no, their is no god needed for a prophetic message, and or your specific god,.. i do not recall the Oracle of Delphi ever having a message from the Christian god, i even know an atheist who freaked out because he had a dream that came to pass, having to hold him and tell him everything all right its just a mind fuck. and explain that it was just one probability out of many. and to better break him into the reality we set down and watch a Noein marathon with humboldt-kush marshmallows and Cheetos flavored ice cream.

          August 29, 2014 at 8:45 pm |
        • blessed137

          To sam, I agree that nonbelievers can have predictions that come to pass. God gives nonbelievers visions so they can be warned. I also believe that demonic spirits, who do have foreknowledge give people futuristic insight. The definition of prophecy I was referring to is from a holy origin to prepare, forewarn, and edify. Such as the prophecies in the bible. Malachi, who was a prophet, his name means my messenger. Isaiah foretold the death of Jesus Christ for the atonement of sin.

          August 30, 2014 at 7:47 pm |
      • kudlak

        Sure you didn't fall asleep watching Deep Impact?

        August 28, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
        • blessed137

          No didnt watch anything like that and wasnt thinking about it either. I know that previous expose to hearing events can be stored in your subconscious but it was not just a dream. It was the same witness of the Holy Spirit when He told me not to trust Obama when he was campaigning his 1st term. I was awake for that one. I was for him at the time, was listening to what he was saying on TV. Suddendly I was jolted by this surge of power and I heard the Holy Spirit tell me not to trust him. My eyes were opened and I could see that he was evil.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:22 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          137,
          "My eyes were opened and I could see that he was evil."

          Explain how he's worse than any other politician. Explain how he is worse than the previous President.

          August 28, 2014 at 9:38 pm |
        • blessed137

          Some people that are corrupt of deceived. If they knew of the judgement prepared for them by following the enemy of souls they would turn to Jesus Christ and repent. Obama is not deceived he is the deceiver. He holds a very high position in the world which makes him especially dangerous. God warns those that are His who love the truth and will listen so they are not deceived.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:37 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Does Obama know about the tsunami, blessed? Does the Pope? Why don't they tell us?

          August 28, 2014 at 10:40 pm |
        • Alias

          Blessed
          what was accomplished by god telling YOU not to trust the black man?
          Sound like delusion of grandeur to me.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:46 pm |
        • blessed137

          Would it make a difference if he was white? The pope is an antichrist to. They play for the same team. There are many black believers who say the same about obama being the antichrist.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:58 pm |
        • kudlak

          blessed137
          What evil has Obama committed?

          On another angle, would you be willing to bet that many other Christians around the USA did not feel that the Holy Spirit tell them that Obama was just what they, and their country, needed in the wake of all the evils they had endured during the Bush presidency?

          The Holy Spirit would seem to be a rather fickle little fellow, then.

          A trickster, even.

          Sure he isn't playing for the other team, sowing discord?

          August 29, 2014 at 8:40 am |
        • kudlak

          blessed137
          There are people who say that Oprah is the antichrist, of that Steve Jobs was.

          Seems like just a catch label people like to place on those they otherwise can't find any fault with.

          August 29, 2014 at 8:43 am |
      • observer

        blessed137,

        Prophetic dream? Nope. Just a nightmare. Common.

        August 28, 2014 at 10:56 pm |
  16. unsername1

    "ISIS terrorists film mass execution of 250 Syrian soldiers after forcing them to march through desert in their underwear"

    This is what happens when followers take the religion blindly, they become animals.

    August 28, 2014 at 7:46 pm |
  17. sealchan

    Don't be baited by a fly...not looking where you are going when swatting a fly may land you in a stinky situation.

    August 28, 2014 at 7:44 pm |
  18. guidedans

    You know why voting for an atheist is scary? Because atheists set their own rules. Now, there might be some atheists who believe in objective morality, that is, morality that is absolute for everyone, but I think that that belief would be rare if it even occurs at all. I would argue that all true atheists would also view morality as subjective. If morality is subjective, then it is dependent on the subject determining what is moral.

    This is not to say that atheists cannot be moral people or people whose morality aligns with the morality of the broader society, it is just to say that, on a whim, an atheist could change their view of what is moral and do things that would be completely counter to the societal views of morality. No one could argue that the atheist is behaving immorally at that point, just that the atheist had changed their ideas of what is moral.

    Atheism has no governing body or governing set of rules to follow. It is just up to that person to make up their own rules and up to that person to follow them. With people from other religions, you can at least make the assumption that they are committed to that religion's values (although often times, religious folks are worse people than atheists). because Atheists have no set governing rules, you cannot hold them accountable to uphold their own values. If an Atheist does something that the broader society sees as bad, we cannot confront them and say, "that does not align with your beliefs" because their beliefs are not set in stone tablets. We can still hold them accountable to the law, but not to their higher power.

    The point is. You are either going to choose someone who says they have committed to a set of rules that a larger group of people has already approved of (and trust that they will follow those rules), or you choose the person who says that they wrote their own rules (and trust that they wont change those rules). People are more comfortable with the devil they know.

    August 28, 2014 at 7:43 pm |
    • sealchan

      Actually, when have you seen a politician not declare their values...and when have you seen them not go against their values when their consti-tuents or other lobbying interests influence them? I don't think it is at all clear that an atheist, who has access to all kinds of moral standards from a wide array extra-religious cultural sources, who was raised in some cultural context, is not as well guided by ingrained moral beliefs as a believer.

      August 28, 2014 at 7:53 pm |
      • guidedans

        I agree with you on the character of atheists versus believers. I think that both groups can have really good and really bad people in them. I am just saying that perception of ath

        August 28, 2014 at 10:47 pm |
        • guidedans

          Sorry, the perception of atheists is that they do not believe that they are accountable to a higher power, which is generally true. Atheists have their own morality, so you can't be certain that they will adhere to the morality of the larger group. I know that that belief, in practice, is flawed, but it Is still the belief that most believers have.

          August 28, 2014 at 10:53 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Theists just ascribe their morality to a nebulous ultimate authority that they can neither demonstrate to be real nor validate the morality to be moral. It is just as subjective.

          August 28, 2014 at 11:14 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Do you know why your comment is silly, dan? Law in this country is still regulated by our Constitution. If it's not Constitutional, it can't be a law. There are no kings or dictators in this country. Just representatives of the people constrained by the Constitution and by the checks and balances put into place by our founding fathers.

      You are just making excuses. You just won't vote for an atheist because you are prejudiced against atheists. You can admit it. We already know.

      August 28, 2014 at 8:28 pm |
      • guidedans

        I wouldn't vote for an atheist because I do not believe that their belief set is coherent. I don't believe that it is possible to have a belief that things are relative or subjective and still be confident in your decision making ability. I see that as a flawed understanding of reality and I would not want a leader who has that view. Now, if there were an awful Christian running against this Atheist, I wouldn't vote for him either. That's the thing, there are rarely only two choices in politics. Sure there are usually only two real choices, but you can still maintain your values when voting.

        August 28, 2014 at 10:59 pm |
        • observer

          guidedans,

          Where do your beliefs come from when you decide that the Bible is IMMORAL in areas of slavery, forced marriages, etc?

          August 28, 2014 at 11:02 pm |
        • guidedans

          You are assuming I find those things to be immoral. You do realize that Christians see being a slave as a virtuous thing, right? Like, our goal is to be a servant to Christ, to God, and to the world. If your master is virtuous, then there is nothing wrong with slavery. The problem is that people are generally not virtuous and therefore can be abusive to their servants. Slavery is not the problem, people being cruel to one another is the problem. Forced marriages are not immoral either, they are just different from what we are used to. There is merit in learning to love a stranger as a part of yourself.

          I get my morals from the Bible. I am not moral by the Bible's standards. I am not a "good" person as defined by the Bible. I am a sinner and I need Christ to correct the wrongs that I cannot correct (which is all of the wrongs I have committed).

          August 28, 2014 at 11:35 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          Keep it up and you are going to surpass Theo in terms of most reprehensible things said on this blog.

          August 28, 2014 at 11:44 pm |
        • observer

          guidedans,

          It's incredible that in the 21st century we have found someone who believes it's okay for a man to sell his 6-year-old daughter to a complete stranger for their use as a slave or that marriage should be FORCED onto people who may hate each other.

          WAKE UP! Use the brain you claim God gave you. DISGUSTING!

          August 29, 2014 at 12:05 am |
        • tallulah131

          Yes, dan. We get it. You have an irrational bias against people who don't believe exactly what you do. You make stuff up about them and pretend it's true because you are not interested in the honest truth. You have a deeply flawed character, dan.

          August 29, 2014 at 1:27 am |
        • tallulah131

          "You do realize that Christians see being a slave as a virtuous thing, right?"

          Really? I bet if you were compelled into a life of prostitution or forced labor, or if your child was forced to become a soldier or marry someone many times their age you'd be changing your tune. Slavery isn't what you want it to be. Slaves don't get to choose who owns them. Slavery is the absolute ownership of another person and the bible (and by extension your god) is okay with that.

          You bitch and whine about the morals of atheists, yet you defend the indefensible because you are a moral coward and a damned hypocrite.

          August 29, 2014 at 2:03 am |
        • guidedans

          You guys are comparing the concept of slavery with the practice of slavery. You are correct that, when people enslave other people, it is generally morally abhorrent. People are terrible and they are sinful, lustful, greedy, and selfish (among other things). When you give people power, they will usually abuse it. With slavery, you are giving a person power over another person. People tend to abuse that power and a lot of bad things result from that.

          That is the "practice" of slavery however. The concept of slavery is that you are submitting yourself to serve a master. There is nothing inherently wrong with the concept. In fact, if your master was just, good, and loving, it would be an amazing situation. You are assuming that being a slave means that you are forced into things you do not want to do, but a loving master would not force you to do anything that is immoral or bad. If a perfect, all powerful being were your master, then it would be great to be his servant.

          Don't twist my words and then accuse me of being a jerk. You do not know me and you have no idea whether I am a jerk or not. I pick up snails off of walkways! I rehang clothes that have fallen off their hangers at retail stores! I have a rescue chihuahua! You don't even know!

          Here's a question for you all. Is Communism immoral? If you say that it is not immoral, then you are just a Stalin-loving, mass-murderer sociopath that loves killing people because you are paranoid that they will take your power. If you say that it is immoral however, then you just do not understand morality because the concept of communism is not inherently immoral, just when people put it into practice, they do terrible things with it.

          Ya'll like to have easy rules to follow, don't you? Like, "never kill anyone," or "never steal," or "never harm another person." Those rules all sound great, but they are untenable. There are morally appropriate times to do all of those things. If you are going to subscribe to a deontological philosophy, then your rules are going to need to be very complex and specific in order to be relevant.

          August 29, 2014 at 11:53 am |
        • guidedans

          You guys need to chill out too.

          Here's my impression of you guys:

          Atheists all believe in evolution. Evolution's moral code is "survival of the fittest." Thus, in evolution, reproductive strength is moral and survival of the species is paramount. Atheists all subscribe to the morality of evolution. Atheists therefore all want to murder those with genetic defects who may sacrifice the stability of the species. Atheists are murderers of the handicapped. They want to kill all imperfect babies and form a super-race of humanity that is able to survive better and more effectively. Atheists are morally corrupt and they are all terrible people.

          Ok, now I am done with my impression of you guys.

          Do you see how me taking one of your concepts and completely perverting it will lead to nowhere? Just quit it already.

          And just so I am covered on this, I do not believe any of those things. I was merely illustrating the issues with your debating skills.

          August 29, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Dan, you don't seem to understand that your old testament was written by bronze age tribesmen. Their take on slavery isn't the sanitized version you try to present. Get real. Look at your bible in the context in which it was written. Stop making excuses for your brutal, primitive god.

          August 30, 2014 at 2:53 am |
    • Sungrazer

      "atheists set their own rules."

      I have my own ideas.

      "objective morality, that is, morality that is absolute for everyone"

      Objective morality is not the same as absolute morality. Absolute morality admits no exceptions. If it is immoral to kill a human being, it is immoral in every case (e.g., killing in self defense would still be immoral). Are you a proponent of absolute morality?

      "This is not to say that atheists cannot be moral people"

      There is no evidence that religious persons are as moral as atheists. Anecdotally, and in my experience, they are not.

      "Atheism has no governing body or governing set of rules to follow."

      Why would atheists need or want this? Are you only able to function because you are told what to do and what not to do, what is moral and what is immoral? Are you not mentally equipped to work these things out for yourself and with society? Are you committing an immoral act by using a computer or mobile device? How do you know? Perhaps you should quit, to be on the safe side.

      August 28, 2014 at 9:10 pm |
      • guidedans

        Absolutes and objective truths are the same thing. Your example is just too broad to be an absolute truth. That is, the objective, absolute rule would not be, "never kill anyone," it would have to be much more narrow a rule to be relevant. Something like, "never kill anyone unless a greater moral bad can be prevented by the killing or if your own safety is at risk due to the actions of the person being killed". I would not advocate for that being the rule you follow, as I am sure the there are other scenarios where killing another person may be the least immoral thing to do. Anyhow, objective truths are truths that do not waiver. The same thing with absolute truths.

        Also, I never said believers were more moral than atheists. Just that they believer they are accountable to a higher power.

        Also also, I do in fact need someone to tell me what is right or wrong. I also need that being to be of a higher authority than mine. You really think that human beings can determine right from wrong on their own? I am talking really on their own, not just apart from the Bible. You put a human out in nature, and they will be an animal, a total, instinctual beast, whose only morality is survival. Look at every other creature on earth. Did those creatures figure out morality for themselves? Does a tiger understand that killing for fun is wrong? You have an unwarranted faith in humanity's goodness if you think that morality comes naturally.

        August 28, 2014 at 11:10 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          "Absolutes and objective truths are the same thing."

          You may be interested to know that William Lane Craig says otherwise. There is nothing wrong with my example. What you have done with your own example is introduce a situation ("unless a greater moral bad.."). Situational reality is relative morality. truthfollower01, a fellow theist, is online now (or was). Talk to him. He would also disagree with you.

          "I do in fact need someone to tell me what is right or wrong."

          That is terrifying. It truly is. God could have written "Thou shalt kill" and you not knowing any better would be out stalking the streets for fresh victims.

          "You really think that human beings can determine right from wrong on their own?"

          I think we can work it out the best we can and that it is done all the time. I asked you a serious question about the morality of using a computer. Since you can't figure out on your own if it is moral or immoral, how are you going to find out? Is god going to speak directly to you? If he says it is immoral, would you stop?

          "You have an unwarranted faith in humanity's goodness if you think that morality comes naturally."

          I didn't say naturally. You have a dismal view of humanity.

          August 28, 2014 at 11:33 pm |
        • guidedans

          Situational morality is not relative morality, it is just context-dependent. Subjective morality is morality that is subject-dependent. Here's an example: a person kills an home-intruder with a knife who has entered his home. Situational morality would take into account the situation. If your rule was "don't kill anyone" you would be immoral. If your rule was "don't kill anyone except for in cases of self defense." Then you are not immoral. Subjective morality would be dependent on who you asked about the morality of the situation. If the person you asked said that your action was immoral, the you are immoral. If the person said you were moral, then you are moral. Subjects and contexts are two different concepts.

          And are you serious that you think we could figure out morality on our own? Did the Mayans figure out morality on their own? Do dolphins figure out morality on their own? What about man outside the context of a structured society? Do you really think that you could figure out morality without the society and structure around you to help you along the way?

          August 28, 2014 at 11:51 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          "Situational morality is not relative morality"

          So you disagree with what WCL says here?: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/objective-or-absolute-moral-values.

          "Do you really think that you could figure out morality without the society and structure around you to help you along the way?"

          That is what I meant when I said "I think we can work it out the best we can and that it is done all the time".

          Is using a computer moral or immoral? How do/would you know?

          August 29, 2014 at 12:00 am |
    • In Santa We Trust

      There's always a problem when answers are guided purely by (your interpretation of) the bible.

      August 28, 2014 at 9:12 pm |
      • guidedans

        That is simply not true. There are plenty of examples of great leaders whose motivations were driven purely by their interpretation of the Bible. Yes, there are examples of the opposite being true, but the claim that there are "always" issues, is not valid.

        August 28, 2014 at 11:15 pm |
    • kudlak

      guidedans
      Problem is, the rules you're endorsing are ancient and hopelessly out of sync with our culture. If following old rules was a good idea why did the USA write a new Consti.tution for itself?

      August 28, 2014 at 9:25 pm |
      • guidedans

        The fact that our culture is out of sync with the morality of the Bible is not necessarily a good thing (particularly in my belief set). I believe that we would be better off as a society if we were more aligned with the the Bible's view of morality. Christians vote in line with their morality, and that is how the consti.tution wanted it to be. If you are giving power to the people, you should hope that those people have solid morals. Do you vote in line with your morality? Do you think that I shouldn't?

        August 28, 2014 at 11:21 pm |
        • observer

          "The fact that our culture is out of sync with the morality of the Bible" means that we don't support slavery. Women have equal rights. We have laws protecting the handicapped. We are working towards equality for gays.

          What was your point?

          August 28, 2014 at 11:25 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          "Christians vote in line with their morality, and that is how the consti.tution wanted it to be."

          That is only the conservative view of democracy (generally). The liberal view of democracy (generally) is that there are some things you don't put up to a vote. You don't put up to a vote whether women have the right to vote. You don't put up to a vote whether African-Americans have the right to own property.

          August 28, 2014 at 11:50 pm |
        • kudlak

          guidedans
          But Christians do bend their morality to be in sync with modern culture. They did it with slavery. Although it took a rather long time, there is not one major Christian group todays that seems even willing to admit that all of them were once fine with justifying slavery upon biblical grounds. The same is happening right now with full acceptance of gays, where the tide has been turning for decades, completely in sync with popular culture. In another 50 to 100 years no major Christian group will likely own up to ever preaching that it was a sin. That's how Christianity remains popular. That's how it survives. It bends.

          August 29, 2014 at 8:25 am |
  19. kristinagadfly

    So what I was saying about conservative values or progressive conservative values in Atheism is founded on examining religious values and how the have perverted our world...

    In psychodynamics and sociodynamics, we can take a humanist approach to even applying religious logic in the very first commandment of the old testament, as well as do a social evolution study on why originally jews developed the concept of not making idols and why Islam sort of followed suit...

    The fact that Catholics make so many idols and demi gods shows why that cult divided the population and is highly aggressive in artefactual perceptions...We also see this Idol effect in Islam, turning the profit Mohammed into a demi god or Idol, very similar to Christ...In the most successful religion on earth, the Jews valued community and a premise that everyone is more the same than any one member is different...

    Idols allow us to excluded many many people for no reason, in a psychotic fashion trying to make everyone follow the same... The more Idols the more aggressive, the more demand of oppression a religion has...In humanism we know most people are emotionally and basically the same which means inclusion or greater whole is most important for the entire human race..

    Saints, Idols, Angels cause what is known as psychosis not otherwise specified in psychiatric, which means people then tend to view others in delusional artifacts and must put someone in a box, no matter how much they do not fit... Its like if you worship a saint, is the same as being on LSD where people around you become ether very attached or evil devils... We see this in LSD all the time...

    August 28, 2014 at 7:12 pm |
    • Doris

      I've heard the Latter-Saint Dayers can do that.

      August 28, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
    • guidedans

      You ever think that someone could worship himself/herself as an idol? Or that a person could worship humanity as an idol, or nature as an idol?

      Everyone worships something. Sometimes it is money, sometimes it is happiness. Sometimes people idolize their family or their work. And some idolize God. The Bible describes idolatry as worshiping anything but God, so really, if you are idolizing angels or saints, that would not be too good.

      Anyhow, idolatry is a very broad concept and pretty much everyone in the world is guilt of it. Even the best Christians are sure to put some Earthly thing ahead of God at some point in their lives. It is one of those sins that most people commit, and all should look to Christ for absolution of that sin.

      August 28, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        I don't think that's true. Some people, myself included, understand worship in the way someone blind from birth understands neon art. Really, what is worship?

        August 28, 2014 at 7:36 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        You really have your head in the sand in this one, because you cannot prevent your mind to adopting attachments to an Idol and focusing on that Idol has those with Saints above god even if you wanted too...

        Do you know how our minds actually work, or do you think this is Jerry Springer hour?

        August 28, 2014 at 7:57 pm |
        • guidedans

          Meow meow meow meow meow! That's what I see when I am reading your comments.

          August 28, 2014 at 11:37 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Saints idols and angels cause nothing.
      Preexisting psychosis might cause one to worship them, or see them as real.
      They are not real, thus can do nothing.

      August 28, 2014 at 7:32 pm |
      • kristinagadfly

        You're lost in observation of your own self aggrandizing boundaries...

        You don't know what equilibrium from boundary states in perception, so claiming Saints and Angels have no effect on a developing mind is inane...

        How sad for you....

        August 28, 2014 at 7:54 pm |
    • kristinagadfly

      So an extension of Progressive Conservatism in Atheism is based in psychology and pop culture, which gives merit to finding music a bad influence in our culture and liberalism isn't always good for individuals or the whole in detached egos, whose concepts form adult minds...

      As I responded to another post about associations being depleted by concepts in associations in adolescence through amygdala hippocampus imprint, we see not only critical thinking skills diminish, we also see an effect of detachment occur, which leads to detached personality types, lack of human empathy or even the ability to relate to others on common experiences...

      Humanism seeks understanding, and a humanist Atheist seeks higher knowledge to expose social demands and liberal bias based in scientific examinations...without a compass, we accept the banality of any liberal expression and its effect, with a compass, we take rational concern to at least warn of a potential harmful effect, like telling you eating red meat is bad for your heart, or smoking cigarettes can cause you illness....

      This woman is a poor representation of progressive conservative Atheism and a pawn for the religious right to allow the left to self destruct in simple liberal concept...

      August 28, 2014 at 7:51 pm |
      • Doris

        "This woman is a poor representation of..."

        This girl walked in dreams playing in a world of her own
        This girl was a child existing in a playground of stone
        Then one night her world was changed
        Her life and dreams were rearranged
        And she would never be the same again

        This girl is a woman now
        She's learned how to give
        This girl is a woman now
        She's found out what it's all about
        And she's learning, learning to live

        This girl tasted love as tender as the gentle dawn
        She cried a single tear a teardrop that was sweet and warm
        Our hearts told us we were right
        And on that sweet and velvet night
        A child had died, a woman had been born

        This girl is a woman now
        She's learned how to give
        This girl is a woman now
        She's found out what it's all about
        And she's learning, learning to live

        This girl is a woman now
        She's learned how to give
        This girl is a woman now
        She's found out what it's all about
        And she's learning, learning learning to live

        da....da......da...da..da___daaaaaaaaa
        This girl is a woman now
        She's learned how to give

        August 28, 2014 at 8:00 pm |
        • LaBella

          Gary Puckett and the Union Gap?
          Tsk, tsk. We're showing our age, Doris.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:05 pm |
        • kristinagadfly

          Doris is have songs playing in her head, that have meaning to her, and we're all not going to bother to figure them out...

          Earth to doris?

          August 28, 2014 at 8:07 pm |
        • Doris

          Lol – I know it is awful stuff, Akira. kristin reminds me of "faith" – the old poster who would frequently be having a conversation with themselves referencing things and people as if everyone knew exactly what or who she was talking about. Like ending a reply to boston with "Dom cornhole, nice try..."

          August 28, 2014 at 8:14 pm |
        • LaBella

          TTTOO has already brought that possibility up, Doris. I have to say the similarities are there.

          August 28, 2014 at 8:43 pm |
  20. tallulah131

    We come on the sloop John B
    My grandfather and me
    Around Nassau town we did roam
    Drinking all night
    Got into a fight
    Well I feel so broke up
    I want to go home

    So hoist up the John B's sail
    See how the mainsail sets
    Call for the Captain ashore
    Let me go home, let me go home
    I wanna go home, yeah yeah
    Well I feel so broke up
    I wanna go home

    The first mate he got drunk
    And broke in the Cap'n's trunk
    The constable had to come and take him away
    Sheriff John Stone
    Why don't you leave me alone, yeah yeah
    Well I feel so broke up I wanna go home

    So hoist up the John B's sail
    See how the mainsail sets
    Call for the Captain ashore
    Let me go home, let me go home
    I wanna go home, let me go home
    Why don't you let me go home
    (Hoist up the John B's sail)
    Hoist up the John B
    I feel so broke up I wanna go home
    Let me go home

    The poor cook he caught the fits
    And threw away all my grits
    And then he took and he ate up all of my corn
    Let me go home
    Why don't they let me go home
    This is the worst trip I've ever been on

    So hoist up the John B's sail
    See how the mainsail sets
    Call for the Captain ashore
    Let me go home, let me go home
    I wanna go home, let me go home
    Why don't you let me go home

    August 28, 2014 at 7:03 pm |
    • tallulah131

      wrong place! AUGH!

      August 28, 2014 at 7:03 pm |
    • Løki

      A good song. I'll have to break out my copy of Pet Sounds now...

      August 28, 2014 at 7:20 pm |
    • Doris

      I haven't heard that in quite a while. I might have to make a little playlist soon before I put away the white pants...

      August 28, 2014 at 7:27 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Me First and the Gimme Gimmes do a mean version of this song.

      August 28, 2014 at 8:30 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.