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In Venezuela, a 'sacrilegious' Lord's Prayer
The late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is the subject of a "sacrilegious" new prayer.
September 3rd, 2014
11:43 AM ET

In Venezuela, a 'sacrilegious' Lord's Prayer

By Rafael Romo, CNN

(CNN) - A member of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela and follower of Hugo Chavez is raising eyebrows for changing the words of the Lord's Prayer to honor the late president.

Speaking during an event at the Third Congress of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela in Caracas on Monday, María Estrella Uribe read the changed prayer in front of hundreds of delegates and current President Nicolás Maduro.

"Our Chávez who art in heaven, on Earth, in the sea and in us delegates," she read, "hallowed be thy name. Thy legacy come so that we can take it to people here and elsewhere."

The delegate from the border state of Táchira kept on reading. "Give us today your light to guide us every day. Lead us not into the temptation of capitalism, but deliver us from oligarchy."

Delegates cheered Uribe loudly, especially when she shouted "Viva Chávez!" at the end of her speech. Maduro raised no objections.

But Uribe's actions have offended many Christians in the South American country, Catholics and Protestants alike.

They say the words of a prayer found in the books of Matthew and Luke in the Bible should not be changed for political propaganda or any other purposes.

Carlos Caripa, head pastor at the Saint Jude Thaddeus Chiquinquirá Church in Caracas, said the changed prayer was, at best, disrespectful.

"It's an expression of people who had a deep affection for Hugo Chavez, who was our president, and that's how they're showing that love and affection. But that's not a feeling shared by all of our people. They're changing a prayer that is highly important to us, a prayer that begins by saying that our father is God," Caripa said.

The Rev. José Piñero, vice president of the Evangelical Council of Venezuela, went further.

"From a Christian perspective, we consider changing the words of the Lord's Prayer sacrilegious, an act of idolatry and desecration and a trivialization of the sacred," Piñero said.

He said the evangelical leadership is deeply concerned about acts by loyal followers of Hugo Chavez who, Piñero said, are worshiping the late leader as if he were a divinity.

"There was a movement that fortunately failed that wanted to establish a church and name Hugo Chavez a bishop," Piñero said.

The cult of Hugo Chavez is not necessarily new. It started well before he died of cancer in March 2013. There is an altar to worship Chávez at Cuartel de la Montaña, the military barracks in Caracas where Chavez is buried.

During the campaign that led to his election as Chavez's successor in April 2013, Maduro famously said Chávez appeared to him in the form of a little bird.

An animated video published weeks after the president's death showed Chávez entering heaven and joining other deceased Latin American leaders, such as his revered independence hero, Simón Bolivar.

The changed prayer also offended some Chavistas, such as Carmenchi Chavez (no relation), an attorney who said people should give Caesar what is Caesar's and God what's God's, paraphrasing Jesus' words in Matthew 22:21.

"I'm Chavista," Chávez said, "but I believe that you can't mix politics with other things. You can have your own political persuasion, but you need to respect the beliefs people have been raised with."

Osmary Hernandez contributed to this report. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Americas • Christianity • Church and state • Venezuela

soundoff (503 Responses)
  1. awanderingscot

    PERFECT ! The perfect blend of an apostate idolatrous religion and a materialistic atheistic worldview.

    September 4, 2014 at 9:26 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      It's good to see you've found what you were looking for. Enjoy.

      September 4, 2014 at 9:35 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The End is nigh!!!
      Keep an eye out for any 7 headed, 10 horned, bear pawed, amphibious Beasts.

      September 4, 2014 at 10:03 am |
    • SeaVik

      The only thing sadder than a religious person trying to argue their position with an atheist is a religious person trying to argue their position with another religious person with a slightly different form of delusion.

      September 4, 2014 at 10:35 am |
      • LaBella

        I know, right? It's the same God.

        I don't get it.

        September 4, 2014 at 11:11 am |
        • evidencenot

          A "true Christian".... I love when they pull that one out..

          September 4, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      considering you are a polytheist, you shouldn't be poking your head out of your shell yelling things at others.

      September 4, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
  2. niknakk

    Morning all, heading to my fav cafė for some Joe and a bit of reading.

    It is just another beautiful day, without god(s).

    September 4, 2014 at 7:59 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      A nice god could come along any minute now. One that doesn't really want anything from you and will offer you only help and companionship. Or you could imagine one up like many people do, but those tend to be pretty scary.

      September 4, 2014 at 8:04 am |
      • niknakk

        They roast their own beans too, place smells heavenly!

        Hey believers, will there be coffee in heaven?
        If not, count me out.

        Later

        September 4, 2014 at 8:12 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          In Hell, there is only Folgers decaf and no sugar – only Sweet 'N Low.

          September 4, 2014 at 10:05 am |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Powdered creamer. Definitely of Satan.

          September 4, 2014 at 10:16 am |
        • midwest rail

          Powdered creamer – ugh.

          September 4, 2014 at 10:17 am |
        • LaBella

          It's half & half or nothing.

          September 4, 2014 at 11:19 am |
        • evidencenot

          Coffee in the little paper cups from a dirty old vending machine...

          September 4, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
        • harlow13

          and the cups are those with a poker hand printed on the side, and you always get a pair of deuces...

          September 4, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
        • joey3467

          While you guys are at it, you might as well say that the cups also have holes in them.

          September 4, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
        • evidencenot

          The toxic coffee makes the holes in the cups..

          September 4, 2014 at 3:28 pm |
        • niknakk

          If all my xtian coworkers are a representative cross section of the believers world, then no,there won't be any coffee in heaven.
          None of them drink coffee.

          But they sure do drink themselves some diet coke!
          Like 5 plus cans a day.

          September 4, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      The idea that the state should be able to regulate religion is unpopular on all sides, or it seems so. But if I were to contrive any other way of persuading people, especially scared, gullible, poor, or feeble-minded people, to hand over their money for no tangible return the state would take an interest and no one would disagree that it should. Can we regulate religion without impeding in any way what people choose to believe?

      September 4, 2014 at 8:15 am |
      • LaBella

        Don't we do that now, with fraud charges?
        But then these folks have to believe they've been defrauded...quite the conundrum.

        September 4, 2014 at 11:13 am |
    • sanddudian

      May Dionysus, my favourite god, bless you tonight...perhaps a nice cab from Napa.

      September 4, 2014 at 9:45 am |
  3. Dyslexic doG

    take the name huGO(D) ... it has almost the word GOD in it.
    take the name CH AVEz ... it has a "CH" which is the start of CHRIST and an AVE which means farewell or godspeed.

    This is proof of His divinity. The prophesy of his name has foretold it. And you can read about his divinity in a book! As we all know, that is definite proof!

    Try arguing with those FACTS all you nay sayers!!!

    September 4, 2014 at 12:22 am |
    • LaBella

      Love it. I've just read the birth of a conspiracy theory! Well done.

      September 4, 2014 at 11:16 am |
  4. LaBella

    Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson is at it again. On Hannity's show, he said that ISIS members should either convert to Christianity or be killed.

    The cognitive dissonance is staggering. Buffoon.

    September 3, 2014 at 11:18 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      and an America being fed a steady diet of FOX News and Duck Dynasty is definitely an America on the road to nowhere. No wonder we are falling behind the world in science and technology.

      September 4, 2014 at 12:13 am |
      • saggyroy

        It's Honey Boo Boo's fault.

        September 4, 2014 at 5:47 am |
        • LaBella

          *Shudders*

          September 4, 2014 at 11:20 am |
    • tallulah131

      Ignorance gets big ratings.

      September 4, 2014 at 1:25 am |
    • LaBella

      Ausphor, no...
      Phil couldn't give a Scripturally based passage about the "convert or die" in the NT. Perhaps Theo could, but it would have to be a real stretch, because it doesn't exist in the NT.

      September 4, 2014 at 11:26 am |
  5. Peaceadvocate2014

    A distasteful use of the lords prayer to make a point but not a sin i think. Chavez was not place above God or the Lord but as a follower who oppose greed and promotes social equality.

    Unlike the times of the Tudors where King Henry the VIII proclaims himself as the ultimate scholar of the bible. A King served by all with in the realm above God, since he is the ultimate adjudicator.

    September 3, 2014 at 6:20 pm |
    • LaBella

      Henry did all that so he wouldn't have to answer to the Pope for his desire for a divorce from a blameless Katharine of Aragon so he could marry Anne Bolelyn. He didn't care one single jot about the Reformation until he couldn't get what he wanted from the Pope: an annulment.
      That, and his constant depleting of his treasury and the opportunity to seize the RC monasteries and their treasures to refill his coffers under the guise of Reformation.
      Henry wasn't a good representation of a Christian. He was a bully

      September 3, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
      • Peaceadvocate2014

        Yes, Henrys motives may have been greed, power or personal desires and not about religion. We hope it is not the case here.

        It is also important to note the separation of powers between the state and religion. As confident as we are in our beliefs, we cant be entirely sure of its morality.

        September 3, 2014 at 6:46 pm |
        • LaBella

          The separation of church and state must always be maintained.

          September 3, 2014 at 10:19 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Should the state have the power to regulate religion? Often religions are scams. We regulate against fleecing people except when its done through religion.

          September 3, 2014 at 10:28 pm |
        • LaBella

          @Tom, if this is meant for me, no. The state that regulates a religion can impose it, also. No.

          September 3, 2014 at 10:40 pm |
        • tallulah131

          We cannot regulate what people choose to believe. That which is forbidden often gains power. Better that we separate law and religion entirely.

          September 3, 2014 at 10:52 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Yes. A belief is something kept personal and let our actions define who we are.

          September 4, 2014 at 9:13 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Labella,

          I agree. Separation of state and religion should be maintained.

          September 5, 2014 at 11:08 am |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Tom,

          Cant regulate beliefs but acts we do which may have something to do with determination of harmful intent, enforcement, compliance.

          I understand some beliefs or religion are scams but all we could do is educate all to prevent folks being fooled. Let all voices be heard. We then decide not based on the narrative, what is popular or self-serving but what is right. What is moral. A human determination.

          September 5, 2014 at 11:28 am |
      • realbuckyball

        Henry could have done nothing if the seeds of the break from Rome had not been long before sewn in English history. The Lollards and the Const'itutions of Clarendon are examples of this complex process of tossing off the authority of Rome. If it had not been Henry's divorce, it would have been something else. The time was ripe for change.
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/middle_ages/lollards_01.shtml

        September 3, 2014 at 8:15 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Real,

          Good point. At the time, Rome or RCC have the authority to legitimize a Kingdom. A powerful inst:tution and as we know the tendency is to abuse power even if the belief is rigtheous it gets manipulated for personal gain. Consequently, there are dissention from other Kingdoms and breaks away from the inst:tution or any ent:ty.

          As i said in the past, teachnings of God are moral, we humans are to blame for our weakness.

          September 5, 2014 at 11:04 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Actually it was the Pope who recognized Henry VIII as a bible scholar – specifically a "Fidei defensor" or "Defender of the Faith", conferred in 1521 in recognition of Henry's book Assertio Septem Sacramentorum (Defence of the Seven Sacraments), which defended the sacramental nature of marriage and the supremacy of the Pope. (wikipedia)

      The ti.tle was revoked when Henry was excommunicated after breaking with Rome in 1530.

      Nevertheless the letters F.D. still appear on British coins today, the ti.tle being conferred by act of Parliament.

      September 3, 2014 at 8:49 pm |
      • Peaceadvocate2014

        Gop,

        True. However, disagreements between the Pope or a King or Queen is unavoidable. Who decides? War, who has the bigger you know what.

        September 5, 2014 at 11:42 am |
  6. MadeFromDirt

    I like the Chavista at the end of the article, getting down to the real core of this "controversy", which is Jesus' instruction for separation of politics from religion. Too many believers in our country erroneously think they are honoring God by dragging Him into the vile realm of man's politics.

    Similarly, too many believers mindlessly recite the Lord's Prayer as if it is some magical sacred incantation and pleasing to God to hear over and over. It is not. Jesus' instruction with this prayer is actually a framework for our individual prayers, which should always first adore and exalt God, for His power, purity, and promises, then confess our weaknesses, dependence, and submission to Him, and to state our desire to live like Christ with full trust in Him, aligning our wishes with the Father's will. Moreover, the closer we grow to God in sanctification, the closer we come to being in a constant state of prayer.

    September 3, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      "being in a constant ste of prayer" – isn't that a sort of catatonia? Maybe some advanced anti-seizure meds will help.

      September 3, 2014 at 6:22 pm |
    • niknakk

      Smellslikedirt,

      First you have to prove the existence of your imaginary friend..
      Until then, it is just your delusion and meaningless to us non believers.

      September 3, 2014 at 7:04 pm |
    • MadeFromDirt

      My above comments are directed at fellow humble believers who hunger for righteousness, not at lost deniers. But anyway thank you for reading, and for demonstrating the hopeless darkness of an unregenerate mind.

      September 3, 2014 at 7:23 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        I was insensitive. I apologize. Let's start over. Why do you suggest you were made from dirt? You weren't. If you want to see what we are all made from look for a good image of the Orion Nebula. It resembles the environment in which the sun and the stuff of our solar system originated.

        September 3, 2014 at 7:36 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Tom, Tom, the Other One, in the final analysis, it's all the same "stuff". The point is we are creatures limited in this physical universe, our daily existence depends on God's maintenance of it, and apart from God we have no hope for life beyond it.

          September 4, 2014 at 3:04 am |
        • new-man

          Tom,
          MadeFromDirt is correct. It's all the same stuff.
          God formed man from the dust of the ground. Where did this dust come from? Yes, we know that dust comes from the earth, but where did the dust in the earth come from?
          Pro 8:1-31 Wisdom narrates the creation process which began with the dust of the world (cosmos)
          [...While as yet He had not made the earth nor the fields nor the highest part of the dust of the world (cosmos)]

          September 4, 2014 at 9:21 pm |
      • harlow13

        Why do you figure the creator of the universe wishes to be adored and exalted? I guess he/she/it has commonality with Lady GaGa.

        September 3, 2014 at 8:34 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        "My above comments are directed at fellow humble believers who hunger for righteousness, not at lost deniers"

        If you only want comments from people who share your views, then perhaps FAUX news would be better for you, otherwise show some respect and try to understand that this is a public blog and YOU DON'T have the RIGHT to say who comments.

        September 4, 2014 at 5:30 am |
        • niknakk

          Faux news dismantled their comments long ago due to the nasty racist and violent posts from their readers.
          RedState is where the "loving" repub/xtian nasty racist violent Faux news watchers go now to rant.

          September 4, 2014 at 7:51 am |
    • harlow13

      Dirtman, I guess we both have enormous egos. You figure the creator of the universe is interested in the minutia of your life, and I am unwilling to grovel in the ways you describe. We both have issues,

      September 3, 2014 at 8:39 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        Harlow13, when I consider the magnitude of Christ's work and payment in place of His people, it leaves no doubt that God loves every tiny and drab detail of us.

        September 4, 2014 at 2:58 am |
        • harlow13

          Yes, that's another problem for me. Orchestrating a crucifixion just doesn't sound like the work of a wizened being. It brings to mind the actions of ISIS. I can't see any wisdom in it.

          September 4, 2014 at 6:07 am |
        • Reality

          Said god does not exist so your point is moot.

          September 4, 2014 at 6:10 am |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Harlow13, God gave man a mind to use, and He delights when His people find His deeper truths hidden under a disguise. You raise a heavy concern that takes a heavy answer, which can be found throughout Scripture. Yes the crucifixion of Jesus was ugly, but the brutality was absolutely necessary, in too many ways to cover here, but I can touch on a few.

          God is a just God, or else He would not be God. Perfect righteousness is neither perfect nor righteous if there is any bit of imperfection in its midst, and so the righteous punishment for choosing to turn away from God's perfection is death, as God promised Adam. But man was created in God's image, and part of that means our souls are eternal, so although we all die physically, instead of spiritual extinguishment as well, the price of rebellion is eternal banishment from God. Such spiritual banishment is equivalent to death because outside of God the soul has no capacity to affect its environment.

          God chose the Hebrews from which to progressively reveal and enact His plan of redemption for His people away from that required punishment. Part of Jewish ceremonial law was blood sacrifice of animals, to atone for their sins against God who gave them life, to ingrain in the culture that sin against God generated the heaviest of debts, and to point to the future spilling of blood of the Messiah at the hands of man for the representative purpose of serving as our proxy. Christ left the presence of the Father and Spirit with whom for all eternity past He had been united, lived as a man keeping all of God's commandments, and yet then He received the full force and wrath of God as physically delivered by lowly men and then spiritually enforced by separation from the Trinity. The perfection of His righteous life, the weight of the debt for all the spiritual violations against the Creator committed by the people He forever loves, and the punishment required, absolutely necessitated the most horrible manner of death to match the gravity of the situation and accomplish the redemption.

          Some other reasons for crucifixion is that it was the usual method of execution by the government in that time and place, death came not at the hands of any certain man, and it was a public execution for all to see and know that the great teacher and healer Jesus of Nazareth was dead (at the same time as the earthquake and terrifying darkness descended on them).

          The good news is His crucifixion is long over. His suffering and banishment in our place was accepted by God, as His infinite nature of love exceeds the eternal punishment of a finite number of human beings, and He has been justly placed in His position as Lord of all. He lives and His pleading for us is the only way any man can stand before God and escape the consequences of not continually loving Him with all our strength, mind, heart, and soul. Indeed, Christ has restored His people into God's family, so that each one who trusts wholly in Him is free from sin and death, free to love without hindrance, and free to fulfill the infinite potential for which God created us, growing and serving in ever deeper admiration.

          September 5, 2014 at 2:04 am |
    • tallulah131

      Were humanity in a constant state of prayer, we'd still live in hovels and have very short life spans. Thank goodness that some individuals pulled their heads out of their bible and actually did something of value.

      September 3, 2014 at 10:54 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        Tallulah131, that's a very limited view of what prayer can be.

        But it is true that in this fallen world and body of flesh, God's adopted people do not experience communication with Him in fullness, until we are released into the Kingdom of Heaven.

        September 4, 2014 at 2:54 am |
        • Reality

          Communicating with god? Give us a break!!

          From my book of essential theology and history of religion:

          Free Will and Future are inherent to all the thinking beings in the Universe. This being the case, it is not possible to alter life with prayers. Statistically, your request might come true but it is simply the result of the variability/randomness of Nature..

          So put down your rosaries and prayer beads and stop worshiping/revering cows or bowing to Mecca five times a day. Instead work hard at your job, take care of aging parents, volunteer at a soup kitchen, donate to charities and the poor and continue to follow any ethical rules of living as gracious and good human beings

          September 4, 2014 at 6:14 am |
        • niknakk

          Raman to that Reality.

          Unfortunately, Dirtbag and people like him only care about getting everyone else to go along with the fairy tale to validate their continued belief.

          September 4, 2014 at 7:56 am |
        • evidencenot

          I give them credit for imagination... although it's probably more like "my pastor told me what to think..."

          September 4, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
    • new-man

      MadeFromDirt,
      your 2nd paragraph was as if you were reading my mind as this was exactly what I had intended to post if I found the time. The Lord's prayer is indeed a framework for us, and not meant to be recited time and time again.

      I'm also happy for your clarification below regarding the target of your posts because it has often proven difficult to carry on any discussion with a fellow believer without having insults and mockery blasted at you from the other side [guys, it's okay to disagree without being disagreeable].

      2 days ago I believe, Russ made this fantastic point that has been on my mind since, the most powerful part of that comment for me was: "as one theologian said: "the cross is proof that – given the chance, humanity would kill God."
      It's funny how intellectually you can know a thing, but until it drops into your heart, you do not experience that earth-shattering effect so to speak.

      "Jesus belongs to the unsaved man, He died for him... The unsaved man has the ability to confess Jesus Lord over his life with his lips. He has the ability to make the decision, to take Christ as his Savior. God's hands are tied until he does make that confession. Ro 10:9-10

      Blessings & Favor

      September 4, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        New-man, yes there are too many swine here, making this not the best place for brothers and sisters to exchange thoughts and lessons and to encourage one another. That's one thing for which a local church is best.

        September 5, 2014 at 3:28 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Swine? Do you think that makes you look like a decent person worthy of any form of respect? It is sad that you think so low of your fellow human who don't share your belief.
          This is a public blog and no-one has forced you to comment here. It is not a blog specifically meant for Christians, so if you don't like what others say about your silly belief system, why come here at all? Your beliefs deserve to be scrutinized when they can be proven to be so absurd and harmful to society.
          Grow up and try to act like an adult, instead of a hurt child.
          Now if hell did exist, I'm rather certain it is people like you who call people vicious names (swine) and treat others unequally (denying rights) that would be there. You're a poor example of anything good about your cult.

          September 5, 2014 at 4:12 am |
        • kevinite

          Truthy,

          "Swine" could very well be a reference from the New Testament regarding full discussion of those beliefs. That they should in fact not be discussed in such an open forum like this as you suggested.

          6 ¶Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
          Matthew 7:6 KJV

          September 5, 2014 at 5:07 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          kevin: So this, " yes there are too many swine here, making this not the best place for brothers and sisters to exchange thoughts", doesn't sound like an insult to you?? No good Christian I know would ever make such a statement or act so childish. It's easy to see what he was referring to and your defense of that statement from him says little about you.

          September 5, 2014 at 5:53 am |
        • kevinite

          So truthy,

          You figure that if ones full discussion of their sacred Christian beliefs are put out here in this forum that either you or someone like you would not try to trample those beliefs? You may feel offended but sometimes the truth hurts.

          September 5, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Kevinite, thank you, you are correct and right on target.
          Funny how TP1 is blind to his indictment of himself in his groundless accusations at my posts. But at least he knew the shoe fit him. Maybe there is still hope for him.

          September 5, 2014 at 2:40 pm |
  7. bostontola

    "The cult of Hugo Chavez is not necessarily new. It started well before he died of cancer in March 2013. There is an altar to worship Chávez at Cuartel de la Montaña, the military barracks in Caracas where Chavez is buried."

    It makes one wonder if many of the Gods through our past were created in this way. I can imagine a group leader in caveman time that was exceptionally strong, charismatic, and led his group to great victories and prosperity. After he died, his followers created stories about him that eventually got embellished into him being superhuman. His war tactics were treated as scripture and they were successful for generations to come. Other successful groups would have similar stories. Then it was one God vs another.

    Chavistas want to deify him now, imagine back then when everything was a mystery.

    September 3, 2014 at 5:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Elvis was mentioned just now.

      September 3, 2014 at 5:39 pm |
      • bostontola

        I'm feeling Tupac.

        September 3, 2014 at 5:49 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      That is exactly the impression I formed.

      In the case of the 'divine' kings like Egyptian Pharaohs or Roman Emperors it starts even when they are still alive but the process is the same.

      No different to saints in the Catholic tradition.

      St. Hugo Chavez, the patron saint of nationalized oil companies.

      September 3, 2014 at 6:14 pm |
    • Peaceadvocate2014

      Boston,

      I would not be surprised if Gods where created by their acts. All acts are different. Some promotes love, hate, selfishness, sharing, power, kindness, dancing, signing, etc....God Folks follow hopefully promotes morality.

      September 3, 2014 at 7:17 pm |
  8. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Hugo Chavez is as dead as Jesus. Pray to him until you hyperventilate if you want. There's nobody there.

    September 3, 2014 at 5:06 pm |
    • Flavorful Favorites

      Elvis is dead too and I don't feel so good myself...

      September 3, 2014 at 5:30 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        Lewis Grizzard (+1 for you)

        September 3, 2014 at 5:34 pm |
        • ausphor

          There are people in Tennessee that believe that Elvis is still alive and hiding out in the backwoods, of course these are the same people that burned their original Beatle albums in a jesus freaking protest that would now be worth a small fortune.

          September 3, 2014 at 6:07 pm |
      • evidencenot

        Tiny E is dead??

        September 4, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
  9. Dyslexic doG

    Dear Christians ... can you PROVE that Hugo Chavez didn't create the universe?

    September 3, 2014 at 4:45 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      They'll have to write in a question to Reasonable Faith. Look for the answer in about a month from WLC.

      September 3, 2014 at 8:18 pm |
  10. Reality

    Changing the words to prayers? My goodness, that is nothing new. Here is my favorite:

    The Apostles' Creed 2014: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
    and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    (references used are available upon request)

    September 3, 2014 at 4:44 pm |
    • haime52

      These "semi-fiction writers", who wrote the mythicized tales you comment of. They were real men evidently, as you seem to say. Many of them suffered torture and were put to death for spreading, what they knew was, a lie? Wow! Now, that takes some testicles!

      September 3, 2014 at 7:48 pm |
      • Reality

        Real men yes, but other than Paul, very little is known about M, M, L, or J. See Father Raymond Brown's studies published in his 896 page book, An Introduction to the New Testament, for a good review. Said book is approved by the RCC.

        Some added notes:

        All of John's Gospel is of questionable historic value.

        To wit:

        From Professor Bruce Chilton in his book, Rabbi Jesus,

        "Conventionally, scholarship has accorded priority to the first three gospels in historical work on Jesus, putting progressively less credence in works of late date. John's Gospel for example is routinely dismissed as a source......

        From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John#Authorship

        "Since "the higher criticism" of the 19th century, some historians have largely rejected the gospel of John as a reliable source of information about the historical Jesus.[3][4] "[M]ost commentators regard the work as anonymous,"[5] and date it to 90-100."

        "The authorship has been disputed since at least the second century, with mainstream Christianity believing that the author is John the Apostle, son of Zebedee. Modern experts usually consider the author to be an unknown non-eyewitness, though many apologetic Christian scholars still hold to the conservative Johannine view that ascribes authorship to John the Apostle."

        And from Professor Gerd Ludemann, in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 416,

        "Anyone looking for the historical Jesus will not find him in the Gospel of John. "

        See also http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html

        September 4, 2014 at 1:08 am |
      • G to the T

        By your logic Islam is true because people are willing to martyr themselves for it?

        September 4, 2014 at 10:03 am |
  11. Missing Teeth

    The Devil is with you now and every day. Watching you, pushing you. Making promises to you. Listen and you will learn the meaning of this life and the life beyond. Do not be afraid of Satan. Fear God, for it is God causing your grief. You are deceived.

    September 3, 2014 at 2:02 pm |
    • harlow13

      Just so long as you are afraid. That is what truly matters.

      September 3, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        As a wise prophet once said:
        "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering."
        – Saint Thomas Aquinas

        Or maybe it was Yoda. Always getting those two mixed up am I.

        September 3, 2014 at 4:22 pm |
        • harlow13

          ISIS seems to have trod that path.

          September 3, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Hmmm, yes, mixed them up you have.

          September 3, 2014 at 6:07 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          The force is strong with this one, it is.

          September 3, 2014 at 7:53 pm |
    • bostontola

      In my experience, it's the God proselytizers that make promises. Promises of eternal love in an afterlife. An afterlife that is impossible to know exists, and all experience with this world renders impossible. It sounds like a confidence game to me. The proselytizers behave exactly as you describe Satan. Huh.

      September 3, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      It appears some brain matter got sucked out when the teeth were removed.

      September 3, 2014 at 8:20 pm |
  12. Vic

    ♰♰♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰♰♰

    God Bless America

    The "Lord's Prayer" to God the Father which the Lord Jesus Christ taught His Disciples.

    Matthew 6:9-13
    "9 “Pray, then, in this way:

    ‘Our Father who is in heaven,
    Hallowed be Your name.
    10 ‘Your kingdom come.
    Your will be done,
    On earth as it is in heaven.
    11 ‘Give us this day our daily bread.
    12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’]" (NASB)

    September 3, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
    • Flavorful Favorites

      I will not pray. Thanks though.

      September 3, 2014 at 2:22 pm |
    • otoh2

      Vic,
      "The "Lord's Prayer" to God the Father which the Lord Jesus Christ taught His Disciples."

      But 'he' didn't bother to teach it to his super-buddy, Paul of Tarsus. Paul said that we don't even know how to pray.

      (hint: the prayer wasn't 'composed' until after Paul died)

      September 3, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      like Pavlov's dog, you are ...

      see a topic, regurgitate a bible quote ...

      one day an original thought might hit you ... LOOK OUT!!!!

      September 3, 2014 at 4:43 pm |
      • ausphor

        D doG
        Not to mention the misinformation that Vic posts then runs away when called out on it. Christians posters on this blog have this ungodly habit of lying their way out of a situation rather than admit they are wrong. Of course I could be wrong.

        September 3, 2014 at 6:13 pm |
        • evidencenot

          Or they post some long drawn out word salad gobble-dee-goop (technical term) in an attempt to prove "god did it"

          September 4, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
    • Reality

      The Lord's Prayer is superseded by the updated Apostles' Creed. See above.

      September 3, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      ♰♰♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰♰♰
      All glory be to the Polysaturated One.

      September 3, 2014 at 8:24 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Or is it ♰♰♰ Jebus Christ Is Lard ♰♰♰ ?

        September 3, 2014 at 8:25 pm |
        • evidencenot

          Praise the lard!

          September 4, 2014 at 12:44 pm |
  13. unsername1

    I am not surprised when they say " "Give us today your light to guide us every day.....". During presidential election after death of Hugo Chavez, current Venezuelan President, he claimed that he was being visited and guided by the ghost of Hugo Chavez. He also claimed, dead President Hugo Chávez, visited him from beyond the grave in the form of a little bird....and guess what!! He won the election.

    September 3, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Can you prove it didn't happen?
      That's the best part about claiming supernatural experiences – nobody can definitively disprove it.

      Have you talked to your angel/god/thetan/demon/gazoo today?

      September 3, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
  14. tallulah131

    Silly socialists.

    September 3, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Prayers are for kids!

      September 3, 2014 at 4:24 pm |
  15. jhg45

    can't come up with a better story than this? see ya tomorrow.

    September 3, 2014 at 12:51 pm |
    • LaBella

      Right?

      September 3, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
  16. Theo Phileo

    Well, at least we know where the mission field is... It's like all those "Coexist" bumper stickers – now we know exactly who to preach to.

    September 3, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      It's also good to have another example of sheep-like believers flocking to another bellwether. It helps us understand the nature of all religion.

      September 3, 2014 at 12:52 pm |
      • gruphy

        Dah! These are atheists too!

        September 3, 2014 at 2:01 pm |
        • joey3467

          Actually over 90% of Venezuela is Catholic.

          September 3, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
        • gruphy

          You think a Cathholic wrote thus? No Sir.

          September 3, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          There is no doubt in my mind it was a catholic who wrote it. Just because their catholics don't look like our catholics doesn't mean they aren't catholic. Chávez himself was a Catholic and even intended at one time to become a priest. He saw his socialist policies as having roots in the teachings of Jesus Christ, (liberation theology) and he publicly used the slogan of "Christ is with the Revolution!".

          September 3, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
        • joey3467

          I'd say there is over a 90% chance it was written by a Catholic.

          September 3, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
    • LaBella

      Pretty sure this person has the <(()x somewhere on their vehicle.

      September 3, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        I can't put a bumper sticker on my car. There's so much rust that they don't stick. (smile)

        September 3, 2014 at 12:57 pm |
        • LaBella

          Lol. No bumper stickersom my car either, but not because of rust. I just don't like 'em.

          September 3, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
        • evidencenot

          What? no jeebus fish??

          September 4, 2014 at 12:45 pm |
    • evidencenot

      Keep it to yourself... the world doesn't need anymore religious delusion.

      September 3, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        The Christian is told "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." And "we must obey God rather than men," therefore I will never stop preaching the word of God, no matter the consequences.

        September 3, 2014 at 1:01 pm |
        • SeaVik

          There are lots of books that tell people to do lots of different things. Why do you do what you have interpreted the bible to tell you to do instead of things other books tell you to do? Don't you think you should think for yourself?

          September 3, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Because I obey the dictates of God, not men. I submit to government as laid out in Romans 13, until it becomes necessary that I choose one or the other, in which case I must obey God rather than men.

          September 3, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
        • Rynomite

          "Because I obey the dictates of God, not men."

          You obey the dictates of men. That is who voted in which the books should be included in the bible and which books shouldn't.

          September 3, 2014 at 3:15 pm |
        • SeaVik

          "Because I obey the dictates of God, not men."

          In reality, you obey your interpretation of dictates included in a work of fiction created by men. If you won't even give serious consideration to that reality, you'll continue to live in a state of delusion.

          September 3, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
        • evidencenot

          Marketing a book of fiction... how nice.

          September 3, 2014 at 4:01 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          Theo Phileo,
          Could you clarify something?

          I don't see any conditions in Romans 13. How does that allow you to determine "when it becomes necessary"?
          In other words, isn't it telling you to always "submit" to the government?

          September 3, 2014 at 4:27 pm |
        • ausphor

          Theo
          Just for clarification should you no preface all your statements that you are a liar and your posts should not be taken at face value?

          September 3, 2014 at 6:17 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          " I obey the dictates of God"

          Right! Those apparent words also tell you to own slaves, beat your children, to oppress women, children and LGBT, how to handle to victims of rape (force them to marry their abuser),...it's so amazing how you pick and choose and then refuse to obey the laws that matter-the laws of man. What a sadistic, narrow-minded, dangerous view...seek help Theo, you don't belong on the streets if you only obey the imaginary being you call god.

          September 4, 2014 at 5:39 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          I don't see any conditions in Romans 13. How does that allow you to determine "when it becomes necessary"?
          --------------–
          Acts 5:29 – "...We must obey God rather than men."
          Taking the whole of the Bible, the Christian is to submit to the government in all things (Romans 13), up until the point where they would force you to do something that would dishonor God (Acts 5:29).

          Example: If you preach on the public streets (which is perfectly legal so long as it is public property) against sins as defined in the Bible, such as ho.mos.exuality, but the local authorities tell you that can be considered "hate speech," and they tell you to stop – our duty is to keep preaching, regardless of the consequences. And that is very near to the situation that Peter found himself in, in Acts 5.

          September 4, 2014 at 8:32 am |
        • midwest rail

          Interesting that your sole example is hom.ose.xuality. I wonder why there is such a paucity of preaching on street corners against the sins of adultery and divorce. Hmmmmmmm.

          September 4, 2014 at 8:37 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          Interesting that your sole example is hom.ose.xuality. I wonder why there is such a paucity of preaching on street corners against the sins of adultery and divorce. Hmmmmmmm.
          ----------------
          My example was based on the sin of this age. We preach against all sin, including adultery and divorce, since the manner of preaching includes going down the list of the 10 commandments to point out that all men are sinners. When there is a sin that is extremely prevalent in society, it is our duty to lean on that one.

          There's an old Hebrew saying: throw a rock into a pack of dogs, and the one that yelps is the one that got hit. Perhaps you were offended at my example because you identify with it.

          September 4, 2014 at 9:53 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          "If you preach on the public streets... against sins as defined in the Bible, such as ho.mos.exuality, but the local authorities tell you that can be considered "hate speech," and they tell you to stop – our duty is to keep preaching, regardless of the consequences."

          Thanks for that, Pastor Phelps.

          September 4, 2014 at 10:01 am |
        • midwest rail

          " When there is a sin that is extremely prevalent in society, it is our duty to lean on that one. "
          Really, Theo ? You don't think adultery is prevalent in society ? And btw, your old Hebrew saying applies to you as well. When hypocrisy is pointed out, you yelp the loudest.

          September 4, 2014 at 10:06 am |
        • joey3467

          My example was based on the sin of this age. We preach against all sin, including adultery and divorce

          That is laughable considering the only sin I see Christians trying to ban is gay marriage. Where are all the Christians calling for bans on divorced people getting remarried Theo?

          September 4, 2014 at 10:18 am |
        • joey3467

          Not to mention there are probably more divorced people in society than there are gay people. What a hypocrite.

          September 4, 2014 at 10:20 am |
        • LaBella

          I like how the good, upstanding Preachers are thinking about homosexual sex all the time.. Must be because they identify with it so much.

          September 4, 2014 at 10:20 am |
        • SeaVik

          What is the purpose of preaching on a street corner? I assume it is to try to convince people to follow what you consider to be a god's rules. However, considering that even religious people seem to consider these corner-preachers to be completely insane, don't you think it has the opposite effect? In that case, wouldn't do less to damage your goals by NOT preaching?

          September 4, 2014 at 10:33 am |
  17. LaBella

    Facepalm.

    That is all.

    September 3, 2014 at 12:16 pm |
  18. khidir619

    There's an alter for Hugo Chavez? Ok, if they say so.

    September 3, 2014 at 12:13 pm |
    • jhg45

      alter or altar? pretty funny either way.

      September 3, 2014 at 12:48 pm |
      • khidir619

        Lol. Altar.

        September 3, 2014 at 7:52 pm |
  19. evidencenot

    Another religious nut case....

    September 3, 2014 at 12:04 pm |
  20. Dyslexic doG

    LOLOLOLOL

    I hope the polytheistic Christians aren't going to get upset about people worshipping something additional.

    September 3, 2014 at 11:52 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.