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May 19th, 2010
09:10 AM ET
My Take: On fear, faith and being gay
By Jennifer Knapp, Special to CNN As a young girl, I learned to read music. The scattered black dots on the page, successfully decrypted and performed, began to make more vivid the world around me. I began to discover the private, personal and strange journeys that playing music had to offer. I listened, I sang, I played, and I began to write songs of my own. For me, music has become the tool through which the meditations of my soul find deeper peace and understanding. As a young adult, I began to pursue a purposed life of faith centered on the teachings of Jesus. Many would say that I "became" a Christian. Curious, passionate and confounded, I entered my local evangelical Protestant church with a new appreciation for my spiritual self and participated with full fervor. There too, I experienced music as a gift that could draw out the deeper cries of not just my heart, but the hearts of others as well. More and more, my spiritual pursuit began to be reflected by the songs I was writing. I laid down the questions of my faith I was too embarrassed to share aloud, or worse, uninvited to speak of openly. The songs I wrote directly pertaining to my faith were warmly greeted and celebrated in my church. Soon I found myself with more invitations to play my little songs. Starting in local churches and humble country sanctuaries, onto summer camps, college campuses and conferences of faith; I didn’t know it, but I was becoming a “Christian artist.” Almost exclusively, I was playing in and around churches - Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Episcopalian, Catholic - and some churches that had no recognizable denominational affiliation other than a cross over their door. Where I began thinking that all Christians were alike, I quickly discovered that they were not. They all spoke of Jesus the same, but their practices and traditions, their “do’s and don’ts,” could be vastly different. As confounding as this was to me, I learned to respect the houses where I was asked to play, learned to listen a bit more closely, and even more, learned to appreciate the diverse styles and methods with which many people process their spiritual journey. As the invited but alien artist, it often fell upon me to find our commonality, to sing of what we could mutually share and celebrate. Through trial and error, offense and blessing, I learned that not even a Christian could be solely judged by his cover. Blundering assumptions about how I thought one church might believe, or even how one single congregant among them might believe, only left me an agent of offense. I began to recognize the intense personal nature of each individual’s specific spiritual journey. I began to see the powerful protection a community of faith could be for the fragile and broken. I also have seen the tragic emotional and spiritual devastation brought upon those who sought only compassion and were greeted with condemnation in times of utmost vulnerability. All this I have seen, when I just wanted to play music. I just wanted to explore my faith. I simply wanted to meet others, converse, encourage and learn about how to be ... well, a meaningful person. I have definitely found myself in the midst of an adventure I would have never imagined or called for. This was the world I found myself in when I realized I was gay. After years of subtle comments, wary glances and leading encouragement to get married and have babies, I was fully aware that I had a foot in the door of some houses that were about to be slammed. At the same time, I had experienced years of rich and fulfilling dialogue with many people of faith who taught me the soft landings of compassion. Still, it was hard not to respond to the fear. I questioned whether my faith had betrayed me, or I if had a betrayed my faith. I wondered if music was a ruse and could unite no one. Like wistful balloons loosed to the wind, I was about to release both faith and music, but I could not release what I had learned. Where music had led me to very strange lands, full of people with differing faith practices, cultural expectations, gender roles and more ... it had taught me to listen. Through the torrent of life’s confusion and seeming incongruities, there is a spirit, a song, that if we strain hard enough, we can hear. What we can hear, when we listen, is how we are much the same. From time to time, a song catches our ear and we follow it outside of our usual haunts. We stumble out of our chosen sanctuaries and toward the source of sound that seems to reveal our heart’s longing. It is only when we get there that we can see the diversity of the many who were called by the same tune. Will we be encouraged to see we are not alone? Shamed that we do not want to share it with others differing from ourselves? Or will we simply listen? The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jennifer Knapp. soundoff (1,303 Responses)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's note: Christian music artist Jennifer Knapp returned to the music scene with a new album this month after walking away from a successful career seven years ago. She also revealed that she has been in a same-sex relationship for the past eight years. 
two wrong don"t make a right
what is that supposed to mean?
Jenifer keep doing what you are doing. You inspire and reach people. You tell of the love god has for all his children. Thank you for your courage.
@Levi, so if I wear garments made of multiple fabrics I can get stoned? WooHOO!
Funny how the most religious among us are the worst at spelling.
Jennifer,
As a girl, I grew up in a Evangelical Protestant home, and I identified as a Christian almost my whole life. I remember seeing you in concert even, as a teen. I later struggled with the fact that I couldn't help being attracted to women and it tore me apart. I became suicidal because I had always believed that being homosexual was a choice, so why couldn't I choose to stop being attracted to women? In my late teens, I turned to drugs to quell the war inside of me between my faith and my natural inclincation towards women. Now, in my late 20's, I am out and proud and I no longer care what those who say about my "choice" think. I am so proud of you and I commend you for your honesty. I hope that you can be a role model for the others who have been in my position. People need to understand that being attracted to the same sex or the opposite sex isn't a choice but just part of who we are (I'd like to see one of the male "choicers" choose to enjoy gay male sex...).
Thank you for being honest and for being who you are. You are an inspiration.
Joy
Hopefully, her songs are better written than her article. Her story was not very inspiring or all that interesting. I think CNN just put it on here so the hard-core anti-gay Christian types (who are mostly hard-core gay themselves) will try to beat up on this poor girl. I hope this woman finds happiness in her life. If she can't do that, maybe she can find a rewarding job.
Wow! You religious nutjobs are amusing. As a lesbian and an atheist, I am constantly astounded by your level of idiocy. You simply cannot think for yourselves or live without some cobbled together biblical instruction manual. You continue to decry anything that lives outside your own set of rules as damned, satanic or punishable by some unknown "creator". Even if I prescribe to the idea of a "supreme being" then I get stuck in the swamp of free choice vs blind obedience to this history book. And I cannot imagine that any "super being" would be so petty as to condemn or torture any other being for living a life of morals, happiness and good purpose. You just cannot be so awesome to be called "god" and then so base to destroy what you've created and purport to love. And it's just possible that gay people may be more enlightened and walking closer to this imaginary supreme being than any of you evangelical crazies. At least gay people live their lives according to their own souls and not some eon old tattered rule book. And for the record, if a jesus ever did come back, you religious folks would be the ones he would now teach against.
I think I love you Alecto.
I agree with you, to an extent. Jesus always taught against the self righteous religious hypocrites. I am sorry that "christians" tend to think they can speak for God, and thump everyone on the head. This is the opposite of Jesus's message. Which was about love, forgiveness, compassion, etc.. not "you're going to hell if you don't do it all perfect" it's ridiculous.
Alecto,
You believe there is no God, yet you indicate that "morals" exist. In the absence of God (the supreme moral law-giver), what do you believe morals are based on?
Thanks,
Ben
Ben, I am a good person because I choose to be a good person. Not because I am afraid I will go to Hell if I do not.
Some Christians fail to grasp that it is possible to be good without fear. I find that sad, and a testament to their true characters.
Jeanine, I'm curious what a "good person" is? Without basing it on judeo-christian principals, what is a good person? Is it one who steals and does whatever is necessary to provide for their family & loved ones? I'm sure they and their family would think they are a "good person".
Ben – In the absence of god, morals are defined by people with empathy for others. I believe in the possibility of God, and I know that my behavior and the way I treat people would not change if someone proved to me that God did not exist.
Ben
Morals are not ultimately based on religious beliefs but on empathy. In the New Testament it is stated as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" but the Golden Rule extends back into ancient Egyptian, pre-Judaism and
is expressed in one form or another in every culture and is frequently not linked to religion at all. It's just common sense. You don't kill, maim, cheat or insult people because you know that you wouldn't like those things to be done to you. Someone without empathy, like a sociopath, can mouth religious teachings but still have no feeling for their fellow human beings. It just comes down to people. A Christian who is inherently a good person would still be a good person if they were not a Christian and the same applies to people of different religions or no religion. A good, empathetic person does not need the threat of Hell to do the right thing.
Ben
mor·tal
/ˈmɔrtl/ Show Spelled[mawr-tl] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
subject to death; having a transitory life: all mortal creatures.
Most likely ment this by mortal.
And even if your "new" religion is all lovey dovey, it does not change the fact that more people have been kills in the name of god then any other, and no greater force for hate and bigotry then "The People of GOD".
You don't have to go far to find evil in this world, just go to a church that teaches children the wonder fear of hell.
Brainwashing children with fear is never a force of good.
Morales are born of necessity for a civilization to survive. Humans thrive because they can live in communities and support each other. In order for that community to evolve (yes I said it), certain rules of acceptable behavior must also evolve, such as not killing each other (within the community) and not stealing from each other. The rules in the bible (
"God's laws") were created by people in power to control the masses and keep them in line (i.e. blessed are the poor, give unto Ceaser, etc). Many Christians laugh at the Koran as being an obvious example of this type of arbitrary rule making but the bible is exactly the same just written by different men.
Well Ben,
Your argument isn't really worth having since we have zero proof in any "supreme moral law giver". Other than the bible, you have no source in which to draw your conclusion upon, and the bible is a shaky piece of "evidence" anyway.
Morals exist not because of a religion or god, but because it's the right thing to do. Society may help imprint a moral code, but to live by something greater than your own needs requires an inner strength that does not come from rules in a book or a windbag on the pulpit. The hypocrisy of christianity is that christians believe the bible somehow justifies their condemnations of others by application of the words "moral and just". When in fact, it's really just fear and a religious lack of interest in exploring anything that which is different or challenging.
I, as an atheist, must confront the world based on my own experiences and observations and decide accordingly. That which frightens me cannot be shunned away because the "bible tells me this or that" but is, instead, welcomed as an opportunity for me to learn and expand my horizons and adapt my morals and experiences to fit an ever changing world.
If there was a supreme moral law giver, I think she would rather us weigh the world and adapt to it than ridicule, judge and condemn those who were different than us.
-Alecto
Alecto: best damned post I've seen (except, perhaps, for "Is that you, Mom?") I've often wondered how anyone could worship a God that demands worship of him. A judgmental God. That's not the God that I know.
My sainted mother always says "I feel God's presence when I walk in the woods, when I dig in the dirt, when I hear the laughter of children. That is my church." Furthermore, her credo comes from the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" school of thought. That's what she taught me.
Being gay is not a choice. Who would choose to be persecuted, to be ridiculed, and to be excluded? We are what we are.
Lesbian AND athiest??? It truly saddens me that you really don't have a clue just how lost you really are. As a "born-again" Christian who was raised Roman Catholic, I know first hand what "organized religion" can do to a person, their faith, their spirit. I pray for you and all others like you – that you will one day open your heart and mind to God and His simple message of love and faith.
Well said. These nuts will ruin our country.
Get$aved
To Get$aved - You said "Lesbian AND athiest??? It truly saddens me that you really don't have a clue just how lost you really are. As a "born-again" Christian who was raised Roman Catholic, I know first hand what "organized religion" can do to a person, their faith, their spirit. I pray for you and all others like you – that you will one day open your heart and mind to God and His simple message of love and faith."
It's not a simple message of love and faith if you have to go around telling everyone that it's simple and lovely. And to be blunt, why did you need to be "born again" if your god is perfect and incapable of doing wrong, then you were born right the first time ... in her image and to her divine "plan" for you? Now you've gone and fracked it all up for her!
Unless you're admitting that god deciding to send your soul to parents of catholic faith was a mistake? And if it was a mistake, then what other mistakes did she make in your life? And if she's made other mistakes, then how do you know that being "born again" isn't a mistake? Aaaaaaahhhh! It makes my head explode.
Whew! I'm so glad that I don't have to worry if I'm doing what my "creator" wants me to do every second of my life. It's so much easier to just do my best to be honorable, just, fair and loving to my fellow human being regardless if they follow my beliefs or not. And I can't tell you how great it is to not have to tell someone who disagrees with me that I'm "praying for them" to come to my understanding.
But you pray away Get$aved! The more minutes you waste praying, the less damage you're doing to the world!
Romans 1:18-32.
– not man's words, but God's words written through God-instructed people. I truly believe there is a God powerful enough to make this world. Therefore, I must believe He is powerful enought to ensure his words are not tainted, misinterpreted, or misconstrued by any man down through time. If not, then he would not be All Powerful.
Therefore, I choose to follow His word in entirety which says, it is not for us to judge, but to show Godly love to others and live in peace, trusting God to be God over everyone...(and He will be!). Then they "will know us by our fruit," wonder why we're different, want the same things we have (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control – Galations 6:22-23), and give us the opportunity to share the God of the Bible with them. Then it's the Holy Spirit's job to convict each person's heart as to how they should live – it's not man's job. God did not appoint us to be judge and jury to others with different beliefs and lifestyles than us, but to be disciples to each other in Godly love.
There is absolutely no benefit from man's condemnation of other men. There is absolute benefit from man showing Godly love to others and trusting the maker of heaven and earth to work things out. It's called faith. Romans 1:5; Mark 11:22 – 25.
Very well said. As Christians, we need to pray without ceasing.
Mark,
Please provide concrete proof that the bible was written by god. Ever heard of a scribe? I suggest you understand the historical perspective before commenting.
Tim...what is your problem? Doesn't what the Bible says sound nice enough for you? what are you trying to argue? Are you saying we should all hate each other? The Bible says live with love, let God do the rest. Is that too crazy for you?
AAA, yes it is too crazy for me. It is quite literally insane to take such outrageous claims at their word, then put down other outrageous claims because the bible got to you first. It is even more insane to display proof of a book's truth that comes from the book itself. That's like saying FOX News is fair and balanced because their slogan is fair and balanced. Like saying Coke is better than Pepsi not because you actually prefer Coke, but because you saw Coke's ad before you saw Pepsi's ad and the Coke ad said it is better than Pepsi.
Tim,
Ink placed on paper by the hands of man. But God-breathed. The old testament is full of historical accountings. The new testament is full of first hand accounts from men who lived and breathed, who walked with Christ, who learned from Christ and shared thier experiences and what they had learned. It's good to challenge these things, but don't reject the truth out of fear.
being judgemental and passing judgement is sinful, too. the bible clearly states that he without the first sin can throw the first stone. So, I guess all you people that so politely tell Jennifer that she is going to hell might want to rethink your thought process b/c I'm pretty sure you're probably going to hell right along with her for knowingly passing judgement and disregarding the bible.
Jennifer, God LOVES you! Don't listen to these haters – it's the devil talking!
He loves her dearly but His grace requires repentance.
Justice is getting what you deserve, mercy is not getting what you deserve, grace is getting what you couldn't possibly deserve. Just by the virtue of their sexuality a straight person is no more righteous than a gay person – all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God – but praise Him we have a way to be forgiven.
No question God loves this young lady deeply. She is his daughter. No question that we are all sinners, and all have come short, and need the Savior to cleanse and save us from sin (note – from), but He cannot save us in our sins. How can we repent, save we decide for ourselves with the Spirit's help what is sin, and what is not? The Spirit of Christ is given to every man and woman to know good from evil, and he has shown us the way to judge – yes, to judge for ourselves whether a course of action is righteous or sinful. He has given us this spirit, the scriptures, and Apostles and Prophets today.
There is also no question that our Father in Heaven wants the best for her and all of us. He knows what will bring the greatest happiness to all of us. The greatest happiness comes from a wonderful, loving family – your own. The reason why this behavior is sinful, is because it will lead to heartbreak, disappointment, and sorrow.
God did make all men, and part of the joy we will receive is in overcoming evil, and choosing all good things. There is a God, and there is a Devil, and we must judge and choose. That is one of the main reason why we are here – to choose good, and learn to reject the evil. That takes judgment to do so. Christ himself said there will be people on his Father's left hand, and people on his right. Father loves them all, but we must choose to keep His commandments, and endure to the end, or we will be found on His left hand. This same-sex behavior is wrong, always has been, and always will be, and not of God, notwithstanding His great love for his daughter jennifer and all men and women, because it strikes at the very plan of happiness – eternal happiness and joy.
this. this so hard that it hurts. the God I believe in doesn't care what you do as long as you are truly happy with Who You Are. repent? repent for what? for not being true to yourself, I could buy–I do that daily, and I strive daily to get to the core of who I truly am. who I truly am is not a so-called "Christian" that judges others for the way they choose to live their lives. oh, I have words, certainly, for the so-called "Christians", but I don't judge how they live their lives if they're not intruding on mine or others. those of you "Christians" out there telling Jennifer–and by extension, the rest of us–to "see the light" and that we're "wrong" for believing what we believe or for living how we live... you're no better than the "sinners" you're calling out. get over yourselves.
What exactly is the Bible? Who wrote it? Who decided what went into it? Why is there more than one version? Is there an original text? Where is it? Why do we have to live to serve a God? What is the difference between the stories in the Bible and other Religious Dieties? There is an underlying pattern and relationship between them, if anyonce cared to notice or accept?
Naturally, no one bothers to answer this one. "Oh, these questions are hard. They make me truly consider what I have invested my life in. Next!"
Demetri, a little studying will answer all of your questions. But I don't think you are actually looking for the answers, you just want to suggest that those answers don't exist, when in fact they do.
It's not a hard question; it just requires one to believe it. It's actually quite simple – Jesus said that it was simple enough for little children to understand. You can rationalize your thoughts all you want – but, in the end, does it really matter? The truth of the Bible is that God created people and the world perfect, but because they fell into temptation from satan, Adam and Eve sinned and were banned from Eden. So, this disobedience by people who think they know better than what God desinged and purposed has been a problem since.
But Jesus came to rescue humanity by becoming the perfect sacrifice (instead of the lambs, which were not able to take away the guilt of the whole world – thereby fulfilling the law and establishing a new covenant with God). So all one needs to do now is to acknoledge their sins, ask God to forgive them, and relying on Jesus' sacrifice, know that God has forgiven them and to follow his will now.
It's not complicated, but again, it requires FAITH.
Leo, you speak so confidently that you are correct, and the bible is the one truth, like so many others.
These "others" include people of other faiths who believe in their faiths JUST AS STRONGLY as you do.
Who is right? Why do we choose the religions we choose? Would you not say the majority of people simply grow into the religions they were raised under?
go to god and science dot org and find your answers if you really are seeking.
Hey Demetri... just wanted to answer your questions...
What exactly is the Bible? The Word of God
Who wrote it? The Hold Spirit by way of faithful men
Who decided what went into it? Spirit filled followers of Christ
Why is there more than one version? Some are paraphrased, others are word for word. Some are twisted by sinful men.
Is there an original text? Yes and it was perfectly duplicated several times
Where is it? we don't know
Why do we have to live to serve a God? Because he is the Creator of all thing and worthy to be served
What is the difference between the stories in the Bible and other Religious Dieties? The Bible is true
There is an underlying pattern and relationship between them, if anyone cared to notice or accept? Satan has always tried to imitate Gods ways and word to deceive the masses. It's obvious He's doing a good job. However God will still prevail.
Have a blessed day
"What is the difference between the stories in the Bible and other Religious Dieties? The Bible is true"
Says what, the Bible?
I mean, honestly, what proof do you have other than your gut feeling that the Bible is true, and the Bhagavad Gita and the Quran and the Buddhist Sutras are all wrong? The majority of people on this planet are not Christians. Many are faithless, but many others believe in their faiths with the same convictions as you. What does that mean to you?
I'm not trying to change your mind; that is a futile game and not one I'm particularly interested in playing. I'm simply trying to open it.
Hey Jeanine
"I mean, honestly, what proof do you have other than your gut feeling that the Bible is true, and the Bhagavad Gita and the Quran and the Buddhist Sutras are all wrong?"
Jesus is the proof. Secular historians and Holy Scripture both confirm that he existed, claimed to be God, died by crucifixion, and his body disappeared on the 3rd day. He’s a perfect fulfillment of everything that was prophesied in the Old Testament. No other scriptures come remotely close to having the ability to foretell future events or properly asses the heart of man.
“The majority of people on this planet are not Christians. Many are faithless, but many others believe in their faiths with the same convictions as you. What does that mean to you?”
When I see all this other religions and their faithful followers, it comes at no surprise… the bible already says in the last days many will be deceived. I simply pray that God will bestow His grace upon them and open their eyes & heart to the truth of the Gospel.
“I'm not trying to change your mind; that is a futile game and not one I'm particularly interested in playing. I'm simply trying to open it.”
I do like to maintain an open mind. I just don’t want it to be so open that my brain falls out. Thanks for the respectable dialogue. Have a Blessed say!
oops meant to say:
No other scriptures come remotely close to having the ability to foretell future events or properly assess the heart of man.
I wish more Christians actually read the bible and studied the beautiful message of Jesus, instead of listening to these con-men and hypocrits that pass themselves off as preachers and priests.
AMEN!!!!! So beautifully said!
"Go now, and sin no more."
-Jesus
No doubt!!
....assuming Jesus gave you understanding to realize your need for Him and acknowledge your sins. It's really not about you – God is so much higher than your thoughts and reasons. How do you know how he judges? Christians do – because God left His blueprint on what defines His followers. Nobody argues that Christians sin – the point is that they understand and ACKNOWLEDGE that they sin and ask Jesus to forgive them. This story by Jennifer, no matter how beautiful, does nothing to point out the obvious – the sin is a sin no matter how you describe it. So sad – she was such a good singer, and now her carreer is over... Oh well, there is no such thing as irreplaceable people for God – He always has enough people to carry out His plans.
Yes, the message of Jesus is beautiful, but there are consequences to sin. Says so in black and white. We all sin, but we need to repent and go and sin no more! We DO HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES!!! Why is that so hard to understand?
The heart is desperately wicked . . . who can know it.
So JW, you live without sin? You being a hypocrit is a bigger embarassment to your religion than this woman being gay.
Blah, blah, blah. Jennifer Knapp has fallen prey to sin and Satan, and no amount of rhetoric can change that. God gave you your platform but you have betrayed Him; Satan is clearly laughing at your fall. If your eye makes you sin, cast it out, because it's better to go to Heaven maimed than to Hell "whole."
Wow! What does that mean?
Do you practice what you preach???? If you do, then if I were to meet you, I would expect you to be missing a lot of body parts! Sinner!
Shut up, viper.
by the way, if god made everything, that means he made satan and sin.
Oh, so I can assume you support those verses in the book of Leviticus that encourage and instruct on slavery, to include enslaving members of your own family?
so, uh... why are you typing, then? I'm sure your hands have committed sins at some point. by your logic, you probably should be dead by now from all the mutilation done to you.
You sound absolutely psychotic! What gives you the right to say something like that to someone else?
That might have been the dumbest comment yet. lol no but seriously, no mane should be able to judge another in that way. thats is just sad. for you ro judge on that level takes you to another level of HOLY huh? i mean for real like many said in reply , im sure you have had thoughts that arnt exactly holy, you didnt cutt your head off, im sure you have touched things that arnt holy and you still got hands. im sure you said some dumb stuff you can still talk. come on man as a christian that is sad responce to a matter such as this, definatly being that it is something that is very relevent to today, CHRISTIAN or non christian, is something everyone is trying to grasp and understand. shame on you man. for real that was a meessed up thing to say.
Jennifer, you are the Gay woman God created you to be. Jesus would be proud by you! Those who discriminate, condemn, and crucify you have not come close, to the beautiful songs you have created for this world. They point their fingers, and stand on their Bibles speaking as they were God ... their day will come ... what hypocrites! You need to continue to pray for these ignorant souls...or at the least, create songs to pull them out of their darkness.
God created Gays! Who else? By now, everyone should know this. I had fought being Gay most of my life, till 1988 when I accepted myself as the Gay man God created me to be. At that point everything changed. My life have been showered with constant miracles since then. God created Gays, and God will stand by them. The Goliath churches/establishments who continue to point their condescending finger of discrimination, because of some verses in the Bible written by men, and continue to pour obscene amounts of money into discrimination against Gays, will eventually reap what they are sowing!
We can continue to discriminate against Gays, Lesbians, Transgendered people, and call them pedophiles, sinners, etc. We only do so at the expense of our own offspring who will possibly be Gay or have Gay children, haunted by our prejudices! Let's stop the hurtful and hateful discrimination NOW, in the name of Jesus Christ! Perhaps then, we can ALL (both Gay and Straight) work together to bring people to the love of Jesus, rather than push them away. WHAT WE SOW, SO SHALL WE REAP!
GaybyGod – Hawaii
How true it is! your post is beautifully written! God bless you! (see you in heaven) 🙂
Mr. Leong,
The Bible speaks of homosexuality in the same terms as adultery and sexual immorality. So, are you saying it is okay to cheat on your spouse because an adulterer exists and "God must have made them that way??" No, that sounds ridiculous! I am a Christian and know that there are people in my church who struggle with pornography, lust, pride, gluttony the same way that they someone might struggle with homosexuality. There is a difference between committing a sin against your body and a sin not against it. This is why the church reacts to sexual sin so severally, it is a sin against your body. Part of it is fear and part of it is a lack of understanding. I am sorry if the Church in the past has not treated the homosexual community with the compassion it deserves and will do everything I can to make sure I do not make those same mistakes.
It's too bad that you have spent so much time trying to rationalize sin. It's very plainly stated that this is sinful. No matter how much you want it to be right so you don't have to change. God did not create gays. God created people with free will who have chosen to be gay.
Well stated Steve. It's a shame so many misguided "Christians" believe God hates anyone let alone a young woman who has come to terms with her sexuality. I'm happy to know I'm not the only Christian that sees the hypocrisy of this sort of thinking. Thank you.
This is soooo sad....
to Brock – Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Nice job Brock,
You just finished rationalizing why being gay is sinful, when you said Steve wasted his time rationalizing sinning. I truly applaud you for your hard work
THANK YOU!!! finally, someone who believes in God but HAS SOME SENSE! thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
Steve – God did NOT create gays. God created a relationship to be a man and a women with no exceptions. Don't you think it is a little ironic how even in a "gay" relationship there is a "male" and "female"? How terrible that you all are blasphemy toward God – please remember WE ALLLLL will stand before God someday at the final judgement – I pray you don't hear the dreaded words "depart from me, I never knew you" and then all eternity will be spent in the Lake of Fire. There is NO WAY a true christian, one who has realized that there is no way into a perfect heaven, except thru accepting the gift of Jesus' death and resurrection, he took the penalty of all our sin, that that person could stay in the sinful gay lifestyle without severe judgment from God – God disciplines his children when there is sin in their lives.. Make the right choice, follow Jesus.
God will not punish you for living the way he made you! Be a good person, gay or straight. Don't let people who are scared of something and criticize you for it scare you from religion all together. The hate that they breed is something they will one day be judged for. The words of the bible came from a day when people didn’t understand homosexuality. Please don’t let a few negative people turn you away from religion. If you are a good person, believe in god you will go to heaven. Only there will you escape the hatred of some of these people.
Sean, you are not a christian if you are wearing any clothing made of multiple fabrics and have not allowed yourself to be stoned. Read all of your bible or none of it.
Amen to that!
Actually thats Judaic law from the old testament. Christiians can eat pork.
All of this debate is over what is in Leviticus. So if Christians can eat pork, cut the hair over their ears, mix fabrics and eat lobster, why can't they be gay again? I never understood this whole "picking and choosing" thing, it's a bunch of crap. Where in the New Testament does it say "never mind about that whole pork thing"? Christians follow the Old Testament AND the New Testament, don't they?
You don't get to just "pick and choose". Do it, all or nothing. And if you're going to go by the Book, then try practicing the part about not judging, too. It really isn't anyone's job to judge, it's between you and your God. The God. Whatever.
The reason that God had the restrictions on the Israelites was so that they did not take up the lifestyles of the Egyptians (the land God Freed them from) and the Canaanites (the Land God gave them). He knew that they would follow the pagan rituals of that land so he set down the LAW for them to follow. If a person has not guidance or standard they will do what they want. What is your moral compass? what keeps you from killing, raping and steeling? Morals?, Laws? Man is not moral enough to come up with concepts or Laws that are pure. Man will return to his own vomit just like a dog. With being said, the Word of God is infallible, if you see what you call a contradiction have you studied them? Have you prayed, have you repented? and have you loved with a pure love, and shown it to your neighbor? The body is a temple and when we abuse it falls apart along with our lives? Ms Knapp is not lost, she can still fight if God is willing for her to see the Truth, which I pray He does.
You are so lost and do not know it. You CANNOT have a relationship with God and live in sin. It is IMPOSSIBLE.
Be not deceived, do a little research in the Bible about the subject. Come to the light. Get away from your feelings and obey the Father's plan. He made the rules and he knows (perfectly) what is best for us.
The "father's plan!!" Thanks for the laugh. Gays are god's plan because we exist. If god made everything, then god made us. Now why don't you try to struggle out of that one.
More over used and mis used religious words.
According to your religion, you're not sinless either. You're man. Lowly man, who sins. And you have no room to pass judgement. So mind your own.
Being a Christian is not about how happy or joyful you are about loving the Lord. Being a Christian is about Loving God enough to do what he asks whether you body agrees with it or not. Living a gay lifestyle in any way shape or form is sin in God's eyes. Always has been, always will be.
Lovely words but it is still sin. God will not be mocked.
jw you are clearly living in the old testament. you sound like a pharisee. While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him.When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them.
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
AND FINALLY for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
You know God is not impressed with anyone passing judgement. It is His job. He said "love your neighbor, and love your enemies". Leave everything else up to Him. We are all imperfect sinners from the day we were born, and that does not mean a sinner cannot have a relationship with GOd. If that was true NOT ONE person would have a relationship with God. He is the only one that knows all of our fates. Reflect on yourself and ask if God would be impressed with your condemning words.
The bottom line is that everyone who lives their life according to their feelings or their own desires is not living according to the Word. Our flesh is weak and it is in our nature to want to live according to our feelings. God has called us to a higher purpose than this. It is hard for everyone of us to rise up against the desires of this world and the desires of our flesh. It is all about Him and His purpose, not us and what we want or think we need to be happy. If you are living life to fulfill your own desires, you are not living according to His will. Whether you agree or not or believe or not, you will stand before Him one day and you will be judged fairly according to His rules, not your own.
JW,
I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that you are like most Americans and probably speed once in awhile. Maybe even daily. The Bible clearly instructs us to obey the authorities that God has set over us. Speeding is quite clearly an intentional choice to disobey authority and is quite clearly and logically...SIN. I'd also bet that you don't ever grieve your sin of of speeding and pray repentantly for God to forgive this sin; much less ask the Holy Spirit to heal you of your tendency toward speeding. Unfortunately, JW, your refusal to give up your sin of speeding means that you can not (and actually have not ever) actually had a genuine relationship with God. Unless your above conclusion is wrong, that is.
Sam, check your equipment.
do a little research about your bible and you'll be ready to throw out more than you keep
Dear JW
As a lesbian Christian, I am here to tell you that of all the crud I read on here, yours is the biggest lie. A) I agree that if you believe in Christ, and the Bible, you have to take it as whole. Sin is sin. Being gay is a sin. Sin, by definition is anything that separates you from God. B) Jennifer is struggling with a struggle you will never understand. So back the eff off, along with your high horse. C) I have a working relationship with God. He responds to me and talks to me in the same fashion as any human to human connection, only in a slightly more mysterious way. That is a relationship by definition. That alone is proof you are wrong. Am I gay? Yes. Is it as sin? Yes. Does that mean I can't relate with God? Not all, for how could he call Himself a Savior? Where would His works come into play?
You're an idiot.
All that said, it is my hope that Jennifer would keep up the fight of knowing and searching out the truth spoken by God since here on this earth He is His word, even if it clashes with what feels "natural" to her. We all have to sacrifice something if we plan to take up our crosses out of love for the man who was shamed and despised for us. And even having said that, I am still gay. It is still a sin. But I still love God, and my aim is that someday it will be more than I love myself and only time will tell how much of myself I will be able to throw away in order to be closer to him. That is my journey here, my relationship with God, that is her journey here, that is your journey here...no matter the platform, no matter the vehicle, gay or not. Either way, we are still given the opportunity at a relationship with him no matter where we are at, as "while we were yet sinners, he died for us."
PSS..Did i mention you're an idiot?
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Jeremiah 17:9
Amen!
Is this why people need to be religious? Posture, demean and bicker? I guess the distraction is necessary to young people on an old learning curve.
Yo JW... what the hell. Everyone sins. get over it. people just sin in different ways. you trying to me that your perfect? I'm not perfect, Jennifer's not perfect, nobody is.
question. if you are male and have a relationship with god, are you gay? (assuming god is a male)
I dunno... you seem pretty lost to me too. must be that big chunk of wood in your eye blocking your vision.
No doubt you are gay.
It sounds like you're running a cult.
Seriously !? Living a lifestyle of SIN? who doesnt, who hasnt, and who will not. Were we not born into sin? are we all not SINNERS. every day a man sins and will sin in some way, According to the bible there are alot of difffernt sins, and we all have commited at least one. So ima need you to bite your tongue and rethink what you said. or from what you said you might needa stop living a life of sin also, oh wait wait , you cant stop cause you are a human being . but what you can do i live everyday the best you can to please GOD, live everyday to help your or uplift your fellow man, live everyday as if it was your last .
Jennifer, you are not a christian if you think being gay is not sinful and therefore somehow justified because it feels "natural." Read all of your bible or none of it.
Sean, you can judge the sins but not the sinners. I am assuming because you are still here on earth you have not achieve perfection therefore you too are a sinner. Are you then not christian or are you like the rest of us 'in need of a savior'?
Same can be said of you. I have only found 3 passages in the bible that might condone homosexuality in Leviticus, Romans, and Genesis. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah is more about Xenophobia then anything else, Leviticus was denounced by Jesus in the New Testament, and the Romans refereed again to Sodom and Gomorrah- which described their cruelty more then there sexuality. I have found that their are at least a couple hundred revisions of the bible each tweaked and twisted over the years. However if you read the the bible- what remains consistent for the most part it advocates love for everyone regardless of their faith. Sean and JW I hope you guys one day let your allegiances to bigotry fall to the way side and focus on preserving what god gave us and loving your friends and neighbors.
Read the article again Sean.
So, Sean....I take this to mean that you don't wear clothes of 2 different materials, don't shave, don't eat shellfish or pork, and stay far away from any women (who are dumb enough to be around you) while they are on their period. Cause those things are all sins as well. Read all of your Bible or none of it.
To other Christians here–You know God is not impressed with anyone passing judgement. It is His job. He said "love your neighbor, and love your enemies". Leave everything else up to Him. We are all imperfect sinners from the day we were born, and that does not mean a sinner cannot have a relationship with GOd. If that was true NOT ONE person would have a relationship with God. He is the only one that knows all of our fates. Reflect on yourself and ask if God would be impressed with your condemning words.
what is this crap?
Oh shaddup!
Caitlin: just a clarification, not judgment or commentary on your opinions. While the things you mention were forbiden in the Old Testament, Jesus clarified that those things were no longer forbiden, as relayed in the New Testament, and that those things were cultural and not mandated by God.
Sean – I have a suspicion – but I may be wrong – that those responding to you may not have understood what you were saying in the way you intended. I think you meant to say that Ms. Knapp ought not to pick and choose what parts of her religion to follow and what not to. If you are going to self-identify as a Christian and to say that upi believe that the Bible is the unerring word of God, then you cannot take a moral position in your life that is inconsistent with those assertions. If you are gonig to take such a moral position, then you should acknowledge that you are not a Christian and that the Bible is not the unerring word of God. I think this is what you meant by "read all of your Bible or none of it."
People who identify themselves as Christians often take a "I can still be a Christian, but only follow/believe the stuff I like" position. Which, though philosophically/logicall nonsensical, would be fine if these people didn't impose their religious beliefs on others. But they tend to. They tend to judge others by how well they adhere to the religious principles that they themselves belive are important enough to take seriously, or to work to impose those principles on others in the form of law.
If I am right about what Sean meant, then I agree with him. Picking and choosing in this way, but still identifying as Christian and Bible-believing is just intellectually inconsistent. And in such a situation, holding your the set of beliefs that you self-servingly choose to believe out as a ruler to judge others by, or as a basis for laws for all to file, is just reprehensible.
Yes, let's not pass judgement on others because that's the Lord's priviledge. But... lets repent of our sins and strive with all our might to live like free children of the Lord, bought by His blood. That means seeking out His will in our daily lives and not persuing sinfull lives (even if you know it's against His commandment).
Sean, take your own advise. Read the whole Bible or shut up.
"Read all of your bible or none of it."
You should practice what you preach
Well, you seem like a lot of fun. Gosh get a life you brain dead moron. Maybe you should read Leviticus and see if you are following the Bible... jack ass
I agree with you completely its quite obvious that Jennifer is not really familiar with the Word. It's all or none not part.
did you ever have sex outside marriage? Then you're just as guilty as a gay person who is often denied the opportunity to marry by folks who believe they're protecting marriage all the while they're divorcing and cheating at alarming rates. Walk a mile in a gay person's fabulous shoes; feel the hate just because of who you love – Jesus wouldn't treat people like that. Hate is not a family value.
Jesus was gay, so he understands.
sean can't read. he was home-schooled.
Sean is correct. Homosexuality is a sin. But, there is not one person alive who is not a sinner. The difference between the Christians a non-Christians is we have to acknowledge our sins, repent of our sins and strive to sin no more. There Bible is black and white, there are no gray areas. Sin is sin whether it is homosexuality, adultery, lying, cheating, murder. Just because society accepts something the Bible says is wrong, doesn't make it OK in God's eyes. It is still worng, IF you believe in GOD and His Word. If society decided murder is OK, and a law is passed saying it is legal to murder someone, it is still sin in God's eyes. In the end, God's laws will win, not man's.
If you need a Bible in your hand to be hateful and judgemental to others you are a hypocrite. Jesus never said you can't be gay. Jesus said love your God and love your neighbor period. Duuuh. It's amazing how judgemental people are and how they can so easily use a poorly translated Bible as a weapon of choice against others. Pray for yourselves. I'd rather hang out with gays than with a bunch of hypocrites any day.
Sean, you are a sinner too.
How about ignore it.
It's all make-believe anyways.
It's amazing how people will follow things so blindly.
sean – you're so gay.
Sean you are the one that is not a Christian. If you were you'd know not to judge others and you would not claim to know what is right and wrong. You are playing God by doing so. I believe the best thing we can take from the bible if you want to put it front and center, is what matters most, what Jesus taught us when he came to this earth, to love and accept one another and treat them as we would want to be treated. Never in the scriptures were Jesus is involved does he say "damn those who you think are sinning" nor does he say things like "gays are sinners" or anything remotely close to that or anything else that might be deemed as damming anyone for anything. Quite the contrary he preaches forgiveness and acceptance and love. Now that is not to say I think being gay is a sin, wuite the contrary. I think we have bigger fish to fry than people who love someone who is of the same gender. LOVE. So I will ask you this hypothetical question if you are married or have a girlfriend and they were a man would your love for them change? Not if you truly love them. So what difference does it make what they are black white asian gay we are all the same in Gods eyes. I know all of this is wasted on someone like you as you seem to be someone with a closed mind and cold heart. Remember this, statistically speaking the odds are someone you know and love is gay (roughly 1 out of every 10 people) and they are probably having a heck of a time coming to terms with it because of people like you. Enough to contemplate taking their own lives and who have we become where we have that kind of power over someone just because we "think" something is wrong? The true meaning of being a Christian is LOVING. PERIOD. Not judging, or having a list of who is better than who. You will never be a true Christian if you can not learn to love your fellow man with out prejudice JUST AS JESUS DID. So you read your bible and read it well. What you are is a hypocritical selective Christian and that my friend is what is deplorable. God Bless and I hope you and all the scores of "Christians" open your hearts
Sean, I trust that since you have read all of the Bible, and presumably don't feel qualified to decide which parts are right and which parts can be ignored because the Lord was probably not thinking clearly at just that precise moment. Do you keep the Sabbath? It's one of the Commandments. Do you eat pork and shriimp? I know that Jesus established a New Covenant, but unfortunately didn't provide a lot of detail. Maybe the New Covenant is ok with gays...
read what i said to Greedyma.
I see no love of Christ in anything you just said Sean.
maybe you need a new testament refresher?
All these people that think God hates gays don't know a single thing about Christianity. The point is, God loves all of us, no matter what. In no way is it Christian to believe that God will condemn any gay or lesbian, just for being that. Being gay is NOT comparable to being a murderer, "'Wise'Beyond." And don't you dare try to convince people with fear of going to hell, JPhillips. I could go on down the list of people I see here and criticize your disgusting and hurtful statements, but I'd rather not. I applaud Jennifer.
Sean, you also might want to go get the plank in your eye taken care of before you spout off about the one in Jennifer's. just sayin'. you know how it goes.
Susan- I am deffinatly not one to share similar views as sean but for your sake youmay want to lay off the calling someone not a christian. I'm pretty sure just as you are against people like sean making judgemental claims of one's belief you should be against yourself for doing such. Stay above that. I'm guessing your stance on this issue is most likely tied with your idea of compassion. Remeber that next time before you judge someone's spiritual belief no matter how missguided they seem to you
really? what about that part in leviticus (21:21) that says that a rebellious son shall be stoned to death? you agree
with that? really, sean? or, how about stoning to death a woman who's not a virgin when she gets married (deut. 22:21)?
you agree with that?
i hope you don't wonder why people think bible thumpers are so crazy.
You sound totally gay.
So many flawed replies and comments. Are you all really willing to bank eternal life on misinformation?
Which wildly divergent bible should be read. I don;t trust human beings who are the ones who wrote the bible. You are a fool and a pathetic sack of ignorance for quoting a text that has been rewritten, re-edited and re-interpreted for thousands of years.
u pepple are to be feared
I agree with Sean. I have nothing to say to those saying God is dead, religion is dead, etc. You are blinded from the truth.
The Bible is crystal clear regarding homosexuality and Paul speaks in 1 Corinthians and in 1 Timothy 1 about the fact that homosexuals and effeminate do not enter the Kingdom of heaven. Homosexuality is spoken of as sin before the law in Genesis in Sodom, as part of the Mosaic law in Leviticus and then in the New Testament (above) after the law. It transcends and carries on. Marriage and the union of a man and a woman are the building blocks God intended for society.
But for those proclaiming Christ and claiming to be Christian and saying you cannot judge there is a righteous kind of judgment we Christians are to exercise with careful discernment (John 7:24). Being hypocritical or self-righteous is forbidden, but in order to follow the command that follows in Matthew 7 where the command regarding judgment is located it is necessary to discern dogs from swine (v. 6) and from one's own brethren (fellow Christians) (v. 3-5). Jesus demanded the exercise of moral and theological discernment. How could one restore a sinning brother if one cannot recognize what he is doing as sin?
Yes, we all sin. I sin, you sin, we all sin. Yes, my sin is just as bad as anyone's- one is as bad as another. However, I confess and repent of my sin- I do not blatantly disregard the moral laws of God and continue in my sin as a believer. One who continues down a path of wickedness would not seem to truly be saved.
As far as the shellfish and beard thing, Jesus fulfilled the law- in particular the civil and social laws regarding dress, what fabric, food etc. and the like that God had designed to protect His people from the outside influence of other nations. We are in a new covenant now.
Have you ever considered Sean that perhaps you are being a prejudiced Bigot? The exact opposite of the core teaching’s of Christianity. Do us all a favor and stop spitting Fire and Brimstone.
the sheep and the goats...
micah 16:18
on these hang all the law and the prophets...
Sean, don't go around judging and telling others they are not Christian – Like you said "Read all of your bible or none of it."
Who are you to say "You are not a Christian"? I believe a Christian is a person who puts faith and trust in Jesus Christ. That's the bottom line. I'm so happy that God is my judge and not some of the self-righteous Pharisees that are full of condemnation. Have you ever heard of grace?
Sean lets not do it this way. True we are to hate sin but outcasting her and throwing her under the bus plays right into the hands of the devil . Love covers and mercey always overcomes over judgement
Okkk before you tell people to read "all of the Bible or none of it", please take your own advice. First of all, read the Bible. Your Bible contadicts itself many times throughout the whole thing. You can't base an argument on "the Bible says..." because the Bible says a large number of things, which you either aren't aware of, or which you're choosing to ignore in order to keep faith in your discriminatory views. Amd secondly, keep in mind that in about 400 BCE, the Old Testament Canon was created by Ezra, Nehemiah, and a group of elders called the Great Synagogue. and from about 100 CE through 387 CE (the majority of it done at the council at Carthage in 387 CE), the canon of the New Testament was created. Hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of alternate books were exluded from the Bible, and all copies were subsequently burned. The canon (and the books themselves, for that matter) was not written by God, but by people, by early Christians. There is no way of knowing how many books were truly written. Therefore, the current Bible is in no way an account of want "God" thinks. It is only what the Christian churches have wanted you to believe, in order to keep their control over the masses. So before telling people "read all of the Bible or none of it", you need to do the same. But don't just read the Bible, KNOW what exactly you're reading and acknowledge what you AREN'T.
To GOD be the glory of all things. It is inevitably no sin greater than the other but there are some the LORD mentions that really detest him. i'm sure you've read them. I believe we are all different for a reason and i believe we all are to seek to be christ like and live christ like and follow as we are supposed to according to his will. God hates non of us he just hates the sin we do. He is not oblivious to the things/ emotions we face. Which is one of the reasons he sent his son, to learn more. Everyone knows the story of sodom and gomore and the reason he destroy them. So the only thing that concerns me is those that choose to be gay and still think that they will make it to heaven sustaining that til their time is up. It's a prayer for all i have to be able to pray before our demise so that we all make it to the kingdom. but many will not if they dont choose the right path now. and don't enlist into the lords help as we all need it for all sin to over come and be righteous. again i hold nothing against no one i am not perfect myself. but i am in pursuit of doing it the right way God's way and all those feelings/ emotions/ wants/ desires. that are not healthy or righteous is a daily battle for us all. I hope you see that in your personal life choice as you've stated cuz sin is sin and if we choose wrong then we pay the ultimate price for it. There is nothing new under the sun that God cant get us out of no matter how we feel. If only we'd all turn to him for the strength. May God be with you and bless you and help you find you and live as we are supposed to. what his plan is for you without when you give it all to him.
The story of the ill fates cities has different meanings for different people. So not everyone shares that same interpretation. If you ever knew people whom are gay- i'm pretty sure they would all concur that its not choice.
Think about it- who would choose a life of persecution? who would choose to face the struggles that homosexuals face? Why is i have met homosexuals whom were brought up in the family of Pastors and preachers, Generals and enlisted, and devout and the traditional. All those tend to produce a rather hostile environment for homosexuals. They risk not only persecution- but rejection from their family. Many do and still they are homosexuals. I have met homosexuals from every walk of life. I myself am a homosexual- I grew up in a catholic military family. I lived in a military community most of my life. Yet even with the fear of persecution i feel coming out and being honest about it was the best thing i ever did for myself. I feel physically, spiritually, and mentally healthier for it.
Groups like exodus international, focus on the family, and other groups tring to 'cure' gays have had an almost 0% success rate with their conversion therapy. Those that 'succeed' tend to be on their pay roll. Such 'therapy' has destroyed lives and families. Many patients either leave broken, or suicidal and takes years for they to heal from that.I pity men like Rekker, Haggard, Folly, and the number of men whom could not do the same and built their lives on lies. Not only did they end up ruining their own- but it effected the lives of thousands of others who went to them for help.
I praise those like Jenifer, Ellen Barret, Gene Robinson and other people who not only manage to balance Religion and feelings but continue to spread love through their faith.
It's a shame you did not even read her article or listen to what is being said, otherwise you would not have responded with the same tired convulted non sensical religious diatribe. Nothing you said made any sense. It ws just a bunch of over used and mis used religious code words strewn together.
god is dead....please catch up with the rest of us so we can move forward.
Praise the living, sovereign, God Almighty!
Nobody CHOOSES to be gay. Who would choose all the bigotry and hatred?
That is funny coming from someone with the word "greedy" in their name.
God does not want us to judge. However, he does say we have to hold each other accountable.
Read Sodom and Gomorrah again. You have it all wrong. Don't forget the call to not judge. I guess in short, leave people alone. Who do you think you are?
Talk talk talk...learn to listen. You don't have a clue what God thinks...neither do the men that wrote the bible. Nobody chooses to be gay. Did you choose to be straight? No, you just are. I can't imagine why God would make gay people, elephants, penguins, etc... if God didn't love them and want them here. Quit judging people and try to be a true Christian and accept everyone...just as Jesus did.
My only response to all of this. Everyone can read the bibile from themselves and make there own discission. however there are somethings that are clear. We are all sinners. And all thou god loves everyone it doesnt excuss anyone from disobeying his laws. Im unsure why people think there is no consiquence for sinner. thats like me telling my daughter whom i love with all my heart not to do something and she does it anyway. should i not disipline her for her action. the bible for those who believe is very clear... that God will love you all the way into Hell and open the door for you. However its not up myself or anyone who commented, because you are not the judge, God is ... and there is no telling what his Grace can do. Only people who have to live with what we do,,, we are the ones that will be DAMMED by it or not.. not any of the people who commented.
if no sin is worse than another – would liars, thieves, killers, adulterers and false witnessess be locked out too. Those were commandments even. You're outright lying about the forgiveness and healing of Jesus's blood when we accept him as our Lord – – – either it provides salvation in spite of our sins (past present and future) or it doesn't. If Jesus is Jennifer's Lord, she is in, no matter how the world is judging her!
I assume then, that Jennifer will be consigned to hell along with all the people who eat shrimp and lobsters, also abominations.
This type of nattering in 2010 is pathetic, greedyma. Maybe if you could write a grammatically correct response, people would take you a little more seriously...
you are not god...you judge. pure and simple. eating shell fish is also detestable to god as well. face it you have biases. you are a bigot for posting such rhetoric. religion gives justification for intolerance and hate.
I won't encourage this lifestyle "CHOICE" by buying any of her music again. Or anyother gay/lesbian artist's music for that matter. I pray that all of you athiest/agnostics someday realize that this world did'nt just happen. Science already proves it!
News flash, religion isn't real, there has never been any evidence of it being real, and there never will be. Stop quoting the bible because it does not hold up any accountability in the scholarly world.
If your religion is the only true one, then the rest of the religions are either false intentions and hopes, or a clever way to get money. Now take into account the fact that your religion probably isn't true either, and then we have a consensus that all religion is are groups with false hopes, and clever money making schemes.
lanea,
I don't know how old you are, but your argument fails to make your point when you are so obviously uneducated. Ever heard of spell check? I would be embarrassed if I were you.
Oh, and by the way, greedyma is correct. Being gay is a sin. God does not like it. Why else would he bring it up so often in the great book the Bible? It's right there in black and white.
Mom, is that you?
I think sometimes that all Christians haven't really read and understood the New Testament. Paul himself says that all things are lawful for him. Didn't Jesus fulfill the Law? Is there really now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus? Doesn't salvation come by faith alone? Aren't we suppose to love one another and to take out the log from our own eye before we take out the speck in someone else's? After all the Bible says that anything not done out of faith is sin, isn't the opposite also true? If you do something in faith, can it really be called sin? In the New Testament, as a believer, don't I really determine when something is a sin for me and when it isn't? Doesn't Paul say that a number of different ways?
People do not "choose" to be homosexual. Did you "choose" to be a heterosexual?
STFU! Loony
Well we need to rewrite the bible ...... on the begining god created Adam and Steve
I have only one thing to say....spell check.
One does not "choose to be gay" – God created me this way (just like he created you heterosexual).
The "bible" also says you better not collect sticks on the freaking sabbath, and if you see someone doing that you better kill them. There is also God's commands to slaughter whole cultures of people and their cattle children and to take all the girls that had not laid with man. Most of you so called religious people don't even know what's in that monstrosity of a book.
You should have more important things to do than harp on gay people, like filling your empty bigoted heads with knowledge. Your pride in ignorance is not a good quality.
Greedyma.... what an interesting screen name for a righteous woman of god. How does someone who spouts about the word of God choose such a name when "greed" is a sin itself. So typical.
Have you ever been to "Heaven" personally? how do your truly know one's judgment day? sure the bible says many things. God is not a punishing God. He forgives. He made us. He knew us before we were born. He knows if someone is going to be Gay or not! He knows everything. He allows it. So who are to say how someone will be judged on judgement day. Only God knows.
I just want everyone to know Greedyma does not speak for God, Jesus, or even Christians, i've been a "born again" Christian for 23 years. This is what i understand if being a Christian: We are forgiven, all have a choice in all they do, no man is fit to judge another, we are to love all, we are to emulate Christ.
Christ took away the laws of the old testament, dying once and for all for our sins, that is what the bible says. For Christians the OT is pretty much to show us where we came from. Not to be used as a weapon against those we see as sinners, as lepers. because, we are all sinners. Judging anothers "sins" is hypocrisy. Who did Christ minister to? The pariahs, the sinners, the hated...To emulate Christ means we love and accept everyone, and we do not judge them. Jesus himself asked how can you take the splinter from your brothers eye when you have a log in yours.
I have been so heartbroken over the years as i have encountered ppl who were hurt in the name of God and the bible. If you are so weak that accepting,loving or even being friends wit someone who is gay is going to somehow lead you to sinning, and you have to reject them, regurgitating the antiquated and small minded words you've heard spit from the pulpit of hatred.... maybe you need to check yourself. Jesus wouldn't have posted this Greedyma.
You are right. Don't listen to the naysayers 🙂 Praise God for the TRUTH!
One thing that was taught to me years ago – from a Minister of God – "God does not make mistakes, or junk." Sit with that for awhile and think about it.
you might wanna go get that plank in your eye checked out before you try to pull the mote out of Jennifer's. just sayin'.
Religion is the opium of the masses. I just wish these people didn't try to push it's rhetoric on everyone else. If you want to believe there is a bearded man that will let you live forever in the clouds, fine, but don't judge others for being a bit more rational.
Totally ungrammatical & incorrect use of vocabulary AND totally not surprising!
We ALL fall short of the Glory of God. We all sin. We all are sinners. If you say you're not, you're a liar. However, if we knowingly continue in sin, we have no excuse for our demise. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. You cannot say you're a Christian (someone who is Christ-like) and be homosexual. That is not Christ-Like. It just doesn't work that way. You can be delivered from that sin just as any other sin. I pray for her just as I would anyone else. God bless.
how do you know what god wants? answer: you don't. you just think you do.
true, GOD said being gay is an abomination.
You sound gay.
Apparently this person has never really read the bible and only listens to the preachers in the pulpit. If he actually took the time to read it he'd realize how phony it is with all the contradictions in it. The bible and it's books were put together by people looking for power and to oppress people. Such morons.
I'm so TIRED of people saying, "Why would anyone chose to be gay? It's so hard to be gay!" First of all, why would anyone chose to be a drug addict? An adulterer? An alcoholic? It's hard to be those things too, but some people are born with a predisposition to do BAD things. THat doesn't excuse them from living right- I have a predisposition to drink- alcoholism runs in my family. I didn't chose it, but it does. HOWEVER, I don't use that as an excuse to live the life of a drunkard.
She's CHOSING to live a gay lifestyle. It's not wrong to have gay FEELINGS, but the Word of God condemns gay ACTIVITY, and not just in the Old Testament with it's abolished civil laws (like the one about shellfish- Christ declared all foods clean in Him- READ people!), but also in the NEW Testament. That's why it's still displeasing to God. She has to make the choice to live Christ, or live to the world and die along with it.
Please READ the Bible and understand it before you talk trash about what's in it. It is the hallmark of an ignorant person to talk about something they've never even studied.
Blah Blah. More blah! Thats a lot of fun it seems you have being controlled
Santa Claus for adults. When does this ridiculousness end?
why do the majority (or at least the most vocal ones) of christians hate so much? hate gays. hate jews. hate muslims. hate. hate. hate fill in the blank. when jesus only teachs love and acceptance regardless of who or what you are.
Jennifer, you are an inspiration and a breath of fresh air. JESUS CHRIST NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY. While the Bible is God's infallible word, INTERPRETATIONS ARE NOT...PEOPLE ARE NOT. Scholars have studied the Bible for generations...and if there was consensus of everything in it...there would be no denominations, no wars, etc. Christians should focus on the truth that I think we all agree on...John 3:16..."...for whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish..."
We're all sinners, and the idea that anyone would castigate another/throw stones/JUDGE is a far cry from what Christ asked us to be. NONE OF US KNOWS THE WILL OF GOD...that is why we BELIEVE. We don't even know what "know" means in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. We INTERPRET the men asking Lot to "know" the angels to mean "sex" because Lot offers his virgin daughters to them instead. For all we know, Lot could have been protecting the angels from being beat up, killed, etc. The men never asked to "lay" with the angels, as Lot offers his daughters to do with the men. NOBODY KNOWS.
Jennifer, if you believe in HIM, let HIM...AND HIM ALONE...be your savior and your judge.
God Bless you and thank you for being you!
Neca- God isn't dead..but you will be. As all of us will be one day. I'm sure that does your ego proud.
no one can choose whether they are gay or not, it is just they way that they are, and is no big deal. What if gay people were normal and we as straight people were the ones who choose? You can't say that it's a choice when it isn't, it's like saying you can choose that the sky is blue.
How does it feel to scream from the fake pulpit you have in your head?
christ is spelt Christ.
cuz is spelt because.
Have a nice day.
People Choose to be Gay? Your a bleeping idiot... rofl.. let's see how many gay people agree with you.. dummy
There is no god. Stop being idiots for crying out loud!
People don't choose to be gay. You're either gay, or you're not. I don't know if people are born this way, or it's something that happens in early childhood, but I know it's something that can't really be changed.
SKEE- I applaud you. You are the only person on here that has a rational, well-educated, well-articulated, compassionate, wise thing to say. You hit the nail on the head, my friend. Thank you for acknowledging the fact that we are all predisposed to sin, but we make choices every day whether we walk in sin or walk in obedience to Christ. Beyond that, I thank God daily for the GRACE He has extended to us so that we can indeed walk in the freedom for which christ died.
oh yes, i "chose" to be gay so i could be hated, ridiculed, spit on, told i should die, oh and possibly be murdered by some ignorant animal calling themselves a Christian...i am just me by who created me just like He created my mother, father, sister, brother and my grandparents and the rest of my family who LOVE ME AS I AM. i have no hate in my heart, including the so called Christians, who don't see this is NOT how Jesus Would Do-HATE LIKE YOU. may you get some peace in your heart.
Im pretty sure everyone comes up short of "earning" their way to heaven. Did you forget that whole grace thing that God gave us through Christ? We are not under the thumb of an angry God, the true nature of God was revealed in Christ. That nature is wholly loving, self-sacrificial love to be specific (agape for all you learned peeps out there 😉 ). What you do is put God into a judgmental box with a bar set so high that everyone is in trouble. And as for how we are called to deal with others sins, go look up Luke 6:37-42
Then you chose to be straight?
Do us all a favor and kill yourself, bigot.
Go crawl back under your religious rock and wait for the second coming. You and people like you are the biggest problem in this and other countries. There is more hate and death in the name of religion then we should ever stand for. And the religious right wonders why there is such a strong push to remove any inference to religion from our government.
PEOPLE- name calling is not the way to go. ignorance is bliss for some. FYI you all who think we should not exist...
I am one of many thousands of thousands of HOMOSEXUALS serving or have served in the US military, with honor and pride to PROTECT YOU from others who BELIEVE your RELIGION, RACE or YOUR LIFE is WRONG. i would save your life, but i doubt you would save mine, were it turned around. again may all you find peace in your lives. p.s. you are welcome
It would help if you read the accounts in Genesis more closely. The tribes were offended by the lack of hospitality of people of the cities. The notion was that the nomadic lifestyle was preferred by God and as such setting down and amassing wealth (especially when you did not openly share it with others) was a great sin. Nomadic peoples survive off of extreme ideals of reciprocity and as such this is what the sin of these cities were.
Note the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah (Ezekiel Chapter 16) were many things we in the US find honorable in our Capitalist system.
To all who speak about what God is, wants or thinks as if you are on a first name basis, please... SHUT UP. Your self centered egomania and arrogance are exactly why people are turning away from organized religion and towards themselves instead.
Believe no one's vision of God. Believe your own and think for yourself!!!!!!!
The Bible states all these negative things YOU are saying about Gay People. Self-righteous mortals wrote the Bible (not God) Jesus Christ (son of God) is just another made up story for people who CHOOSE to believe it. Unfortunately, ignorance and insecurities guide people into religion and justify and reinforce their personal agenda.
jesus hates all gays no matter if you can play the guitar or not, read the bible!
live and let live
Gotta agree with CB, you're an idiot.
Wow, there's a lot of religious idiots on here.
And I hope that when you reach the Promised Land in the afterlife that God teaches you good grammar and spelling, because he sure as hell has neglected your education in this life!
Wow, still stuck in the past aren't you? She did not CHOOSE to be gay, GOD made her that way, she was BORN that way. Remove your head from your nether regions and join the present.
Jennifer kudos to you my friend, hey I'm straight, but I still know a beautiful woman inside/out when I see one. Your beauty and braveness will carry you. It's just to bad you chose to be Christian when there are so many of them living by words written thousand of years ago. You are accepted by many for who you are no matter what. God loves you for who you are.
Are you really that thick, or are you totally nuts?
Yep. Your Foxpublican views continue to reinforce why the religious right will ruin this country. Keep it up, you'll have your dream...along with your fantasies from that interesting novel...
Well said!! some people are just trying to make way for there flesh tho
I'm gay and Christian. I used to go along with what you're saying here, until I realized that I never made a choice to be gay. I made a choice not to act on my gay feelings, but I was still gay– and always had been. After all the shame, ridicule, bullying, and flat out abuse I faced when was younger– and even as an adult–, I would have chosen to be straight for sure if it were an option. I suppose I could have done what's "righteous" and married a nice Christian woman. I would never love her or want to be with her– but that's the right thing to do, correct? I'm sorry– that would have absolutely ruined her life and mine.
If we're going to pretend to follow every single one of God's laws– let's go for it. Women should not leave the house without their heads covered. No divorce– ever. No eating shellfish. Oh, and let's follow all ten commandments to the letter– which includes no lying. But wait– if I marry a woman and tell her that I love her even when I don't, wouldn't that a huge catastrophic lie?
It seems to me that living dishonestly just to be "righteous" is just as bad a sin as unconditionally loving someone who just happens to be the same gender. I know that I'm not perfect, but I'm also 100% confident that I will be in heaven one day sitting next to Jesus– with my husband.
You need to do your homework and have a look at the latest medical research. It is pretty sickening to find the faithful acting this way. There is good solid research that proves that being gay or lesbian is not a choice. I am completely celibate and will remain that way.
John, I just wanted to say that I enjoyed what you wrote.
Personally, I have no religion. But I am open enough to respect every religion around me. I was very happy to read what you wrote, and I wish there were more people in this world like you. Gay, Straight, or Alien, doesn't matter to me. All I look for is some humanity. 🙂
but...all things about this god crap aside....she is hot!
...Remember back when old civilizations would see a solar eclipse as a sign of the gods' dissatisfaction, and sacrifice any number of the tribe to appease them...? Because that was the faith norm at the time. Now that belief or practice would seem ridiculous, if it weren't so brutal and sad.
I wonder how future civilizations would view our present civilization, who believes in some invisible being who can hear our thoughts and see everything we do... Who, even though we have no evidence of it's existence, demands that we judge and shun people for loving someone of the same gender...
Pretty brutal and sad.
I hope you have a gay kid.
No matter how we express ourselves, weather we our way is right or wrong, there is a way that is right. Just because we think is so doesn't make it so. Gods word is so and it very plainly states that being guy is not right. Sin is sin and our understanding will never explain it away. Have ears to hear? Better hear what God has said to his people. Can the clay say to the potter make me into a vase?
You repeat the words from th bible like a robot. You don't see it yet, but it is you who live the wrong deceived life like a slave, saying what they feed you. Free yourself and start living a real life, enjoy all glories nature has to offer and don't condemn your mind to some fake fairy tale, some barbaric medieval rules that are so backward and outdated in our modern time. It is you who need to wake up and join the good natural life we are enjoying.
Jennifer,
I was a fan of your christian music and I continue to be a fan or your thoughtful passionate prose. I was hurt when my wife of ten years came out; not only by what happened between us, but by the church that was supposed to be loving and compassionate. They were anything but. I learned a lot about faith and the fear of the congregants; what lied beneath "loving Christians" surface love. While I personally can't relate to your sexuality struggle, I do respect your honesty in the midst of so much hypocrisy. I will continue to be a fan of your passionate moving music and look forward to purchasing your new album.
Pete
Greedyma, you're an idiot. Another religious bible thumper. Another egocentric human bent on destroying the world with "gods" power unless we all repent and take the lord as our saviour...WEll, I say BS. No christian has ever proved that a god exist. Faith is not fact so get over it.
Once again proving that just because you say you are Christian doesn't mean you act like one.
God detests poor grammar and punctuation.
blahblahblah lady, get over yourself
I will never understand the ignorance of people who say "chose to be gay". Are you saying that if we don't have sex with the people we ae attracted to that we are not gay? Are you saying that everyone is attracted to the members of their own sex and not attracted to members of the opposite sex but that they choose to be with the opposite sex because it's not a sin? Everythinbg man has his hand in is imperfect. Jesus himself never even mentioned homosexuality. His message was love but so many self proclaimed CHRISTians just don't get it. I refuse to beleive that any God would make me gay and then condemn me for it. That's just crazy. That's like saying people with blue eyes will go to hell because they refuse to gouge out their eyes and that is a choice. This is all man made nonsense. Gay poeple are here. They always have been and always will be and it's time to strat treating them as second class citizens.
@ greedyma – Praise the name of the Lord, for He is Worth of Praise! You have preached a good word of God and many now are even living as Sodom and Gomorrah. May the rich Mercy of God deliver those who are in darkness and be delivered into the Marvelous Light of His Son, Jesus Christ. Now, I understand that unbelievers who are involved in such darkness hate to be exposed of it through the Light of this world, Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. My heart goes out to those that think that "RELIGION" will save them, which Atheists; Agnostics will be able to die and not see that h3ll is waiting for them. I pray that every stronghold that has kept them from knowing, seeing, and believing the Righteousness of God may be set free from the captivity of their minds. May God's Grace be on the life of this young singer and may she be filled by the Holy Spirit and be delivered from darkness. I know for a fact that demons are real and have successfully deceived and blinded many who are now lost. We, the nondenominational-Christians come together in prayer for the lost.
This comes from Truth and Science Ministries:
2 Corinthians 4:18 says: "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."
The Naturalistic Worldview says: The natural world is all there is.
The Biblical Worldview says: The natural world is only temporary.
Naturalism has no ground upon which absolute morals can be based.
Naturalism: God is a creation of man. Man determines right and wrong. Civil laws are written by the group with the most (political power).
Biblical: God is the all-powerful Creator. God determines right and wrong. Civil laws are based on God's laws.
Who am I? Naturalism: A random chance accident for no purpose; and a higher evolved life form. Creation: A totally unique individual, made in the likeness and image of God. (Genesis 1:27)
Where did I come from? Naturalism: From hydrogen via monkeys. Creation: By an act of creation by an intelligent living being. (Genesis 2:7)
The renewing of our minds and strongholds
We know that strongholds and imaginations must be cast down, but how? By being transformed through the renewing of our minds:
Romans 12:2, "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
As our minds are renewed, we may prove (discern) what is good, acceptable, perfect, and the will of God. Their minds need to be renewed, and as those strongholds come down they will be able to see God's will and respond.
How are our minds renewed and cleansed? Through the washing of the Word our minds are transformed and strongholds are torn down. Spending time and meditating on the Word of God washes our minds and corrects our false thinking patters (strongholds).
Ephesians 5:26-27, "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
This I'm right your wrong Religious fundamentalism makes me sick. I'm Roman Catholic BUT I proudly support the right to gay marriage. I accept all as they are, perhaps you should too.
What is most amazing is that people of faith truely believe that if they throw some scripture on a comment board us gays are going to fall all over ourselves to convert into what they want us to be. What Christians need to realize is that a lot of us take NO STOCK IN THE BIBLE. So your argument does not work on us. It falls on deaf ears. We don't care what you think, or what something written by people 2000 years ago (who had zero scientific knowledge of the world) thinks. If I was alive in that time period I might think a flying-spagetthi monster ruled from the clouds too. But I fortunately live in an age where most things have a scientific explanation based on physics, genetics, and biology. If you want to believe in it, fine. But keep it to yourself because you come across as crazy and pathetic. No, I'm not filled with hate for you. I'm just trying to save you some time and energy. Plus, my finger gets tired of scrolling through your worn-out arguments to find some original ideas and perspectives from other posters.
I don't want to be like jesus! I've read that bible that you place SO much faith in. It says that Jesus told his deciples to leave their families! He also condemned a fig tree for not bearing fruit! The bible also says that there was a talking pig that was attempting suicide by jumping off of a cliff! Sounds like a looney bin if you ask me! So, all these people that say "I want to be 'christ-like'", I run from! Are they going to talk about Babe, the suicidal pig? Cut my fruit trees down if they bear no fruit? Try to convince my neighbors to be dead-beat dads? You can have jesus! I'll go on the theory that I should treat others as I'd like to be treated. That's served me quite well so far. I suggest you get of your soap box full of judgement and do the same. You can never go wrong, doing something right. My mother taught me that.
Well said, greedyma. It's sad to read some of the responses on here. People just looking to attack someone who dares to speak their faith. Oh the intolerance of those who claim to be tolerant...
Small-minded christians are the down fall of our U.S. society.
Will you pay the price for all of the nonsense you just stated? What a incoherent bunch of bull.
Greedyma. You make no sense. In other words your comments are NONSENSE.
No one chooses to be gay–it's not like picking a pair of shoes for the day. I don't know why people think we have a choice. And here's another cliche: If being heterosexual suddenly became immoral or illegal, how many straight people would be able to put aside their inborn sexuality and become gay? Those of you who claim to know God's will–what would God have us do? If he created us, then there is no sin in us or who we are unless God made a mistake. I used to love God but now I think he was invented to allow religion to frighten humans into subjugation.
This, coupled with the "stop, drop, and roll" image in the margin sums up the biggest problems with mainstream churches. They are so worried about the fear of damnation, they are missing out on the fruits of salvation.
Fear of damnation does not equal salvation!
Salvation is a gift, freely given, that we can accept or not. And it is my fear that many of those clustered in church houses, simply out of fear of hell, will find themselves there in the end. Because they've been so worried about where they are going, they have never accepted the gift that may get them there.
The way I look at it, the scripture tells fundamentalist that their will be people left in the church houses after Christ comes to rapture the church away. Where do you think these folks will come from? Not from the true faithful that were raptured away (and, no matter how much it bugs you, just may include some gay people), but from those fearful of hell who've never experienced true salvation.
It looks like Jennifer is on that path to truly experience the fruits of her salvation. My prayers will be with her on her journey.
John 3:16 God judges, people shouldn't
sandy,
You are a fool. You dispute the authors of the Bible then try and tell us how Jesus would react. You can't have it both ways dear.
the double standard is so obvious
the prejudice is justified by a book written by biased men
If you are going to use the same argument against equal rights for gays then you use the same argument for slavery and women being 2nd class citizens
If "God" detests sin so much, why did HE create it?
Be your authentic self. Anything less is a sin. God does not care if you are gay, only if you love. God has not spoken on this issue ... humans have. Paul was not Jesus ... Jesus never condemned anyone for who they were. The Old Testament and its laws is what Jesus made moot. Love is the root of the gospel of Christ. No less.
Maybe the lesson for today reminds us that God is ever ready to do a new thing. It further reminds us that the God we worship is not a static God, capable only of speaking to us from two, three or four thousand years ago. Rather, God is living, alive in this moment, revealing new truth to us here, now.
God is revealing new truth in many areas of life. One which is increasingly clear is that He is speaking to us in the issue of homosexuality.
The new thing that God is doing in our midst right now is to show us that homosexuality is not simply an act or acts of willful disobedience to God’s law and commandments, but it is a state of being. It is an identity that God has given to some of His children. It is who they are.
The overwhelming love of God in Christ sweeps some specific prohibitions away, even though they are in the Bible. Do you believe that? Anyone divorced? Jesus ruled out almost all divorce. Anyone here a woman? Well, Paul didn’t rule you out, but he ruled you out of speaking in church. Anybody here eat pork? Specifically prohibited!
Look, the sovereign message of the Bible is God’s redeeming, all-powerful love that overrides all else, and places specific prohibitions in the context of the time and place and situation in which they were written.
I am about to do a new thing. –Isaiah 43:1
The problem with what you have stated is your assumption that people choose to be gay. It is just not the case. When did you choose to be straight? Were you laying awake in bed one night and then all of a sudden made that decision? Or did you just know that you were straight? The problem I have with people who use God and religion to condemn gay people is that they ignore the very hypocrisy they are committing. They say that God created everything and that this world is a reflection of his divine power. So, by that very argument it could be said that God created Gay people. It is time to choose then, either God created everything (including gay people) or face the fact that God didn't create everything. You just can't have it both ways. Speaking from experience I know that people don't choose to be Gay. It is instead genetic. I still wish everyday that I was straight....why would I want people to insult me? Why would I want to be discriminated against time and time again? No, if I had a choice I would choose to be straight, but that isn't a choice I get to make.
Katy... it is those "small-minded christians" who began this wonderful country we call home, and that have given you your freedom of speech.
How sad for some of you...
For you to say that people choose to be gay is absurd. For starters I have been a lesbian as long as I can remember and I am happy this way but why would gays and lesbians choose to be ridiculed, looked down on, and talked about in society every day of their life? It's supposedly wrong in society's eyes to be gay but yet it's okay to be a straight man and cheat on your wife numerous times and ask for forgiveness from your wife, and not get divorced no matter how miserable you are in a marriage right?
First, people don't choose to be gay, duh. Secondly, any prohibitions were writen in the Torah (Old Testament), a book written by Jews for Jews. If you're a Christian, it seems to me you should be concerning yourself with what Jesus said and did - as written in the New Testament. And he said nothing about gays and lesbians. He did say love thy neighbor as thyself and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Perhaps, Greedyma, (nice handle - very Christian) should try sticking to those rules.
Hello all. I have read many of these comments and my heart is saddened at the hurt and hatefulness being communicated. Jesus never came to establish a religion, that was man's doing. Jesus came to provide a way for us to live eternally with Him. It is not an exclusive religious club, but in order for God to be righteous and just there are standards that must be upheld. God loves you, and He would that none would perish. The choice is yours. http://www.myfiveminutes.org
re: SKEE
"It's not wrong to have gay FEELINGS, but the Word of God condemns gay ACTIVITY, and not just in the Old Testament with it's abolished civil laws (like the one about shellfish- Christ declared all foods clean in Him- READ people!)"
reread Matthew 5:17
'Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'