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July 27th, 2010
12:48 PM ET
Utah court overturns conviction of polygamist 'prophet'The Utah Supreme Court has reversed Warren Steed Jeffs' two convictions on charges of rape as an accomplice and ordered a new trial, saying instructions given to jurors were erroneous. Jeffs, the so-called "prophet" of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or FLDS, was sentenced to two consecutive terms of five years to life after he was convicted in September 2007.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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David Johnson, I am well awared Ted finally joined his liberal brothers last year. My point was that minorities and poor folks have been fooled by extremely rich white capiltalist like Kennedys pelosis frank ect who try to tell the rest of us not to drive S.U.V.'s while they fly around in privite Jets and live in mansions. rich white liberal created the welfare system to keep african americans fed,housed and keep their mouth shut ..
And again...... We should all be surprised that the 'UTAH' supreme court overturned his sentence....because....?
mormons agree with poligamy
@Gary
Hey there..... I don't think we have posted together in awhile. I hope that you are well...
Yeah....... that pretty much sums it up, i.e... UTAH supreme court. If ever someone has a chance to get any polygamy charges overturned, it certainly is Utah.
Your post that "mormons agree with polygamy" certainly made me think a bit deeper into this. It seems like from your post that you are making a vast over-generalization. I would venture to say, that yes, there are a ('few/some' mormons) who are for polygamy.
But. I am not sure of all of the particulars of the case. All of the mormons I know, are very much against polygamy. So, are they keeping it secret...?
Does the Utah supreme court have some backers on this issue, since the Church Of Jesus Later Day Saints(mormons), are very vocally 'against' polygamy.
Interesting.....
Anyways, good to hear from you Gary.
Peace to you....
That peace2all fellow, is a wise man. I salute you!
@David Johnson;
Thanks brother..... We usually are basically making the same claims... and I am usually jumping in there with ya'..... My postings however are getting flagged much too often by the moderators..
Peace...
@peace2all
Yes, that is happening to me. I get that "subect to moderation" note, which always means they are going to delete it. I try to determine why, but often I don't understand what they are objecting to.
Several times, my comments simply are gone. This happened to 3 times when I was commenting to Helsgod. Yesterday my comments to Peter F and his original comment were deleted. Maybe it is god...
@David Johnson
Yeah...Maybe it is the big G.. or.... I have heard that the 'fundie/believers' go around hitting the 'report abuse' button every time they don't like anything that smacks of logic/science/reason, etc...
Anyways.... good blogging with you....
Peace.....
It was more of a question on my part than an assertion I think. At least that is how I intended it to come off... How can nonbelievers have a code when there is no standard? If that is the case, anyone can do what they think is right, whether or not others agree with them. We SHOULD all know that murdering, lying, cheating, etc. is wrong. But for the people who do that every day, what can we say to them? I've lied before. I've cheated before. If I've gone against some code, now what? Does it even matter?
Food for thought, not trying to "put you in your place" or anything like that, lol.
@peace2all
I said we should know that those "sins" are wrong, but why? Are they really wrong, or is that just the opinion most of us hold? The Bible is the standard that reinforces our consciences to what is true and good.
You say that there are a lot of non-believers that obey the laws not written in the Bible... what laws? Do they obey them because they are ethically correct or because it is convenient not to get in trouble? Who can say they are ethically correct? Or, from what I assume about non-believers, are there no ethical rights and wrongs that hold the highest authority above everything else? In that case, anyone can do what they want – and that takes us back to the initial question/idea I was referring to.
Lastly, I don't remember which article I posted this on, but I firmly assert to all of you nonbelievers out there that, believe it or not, Christians struggle with issues in and outside the Bible. Asking questions and seeking answers/guidance is important. There are things we simply do not and will not understand about life, faith, God, etc.
The end.
@Peter F
You want a moral code that can be used? One that does not require a moral injection from a god? Okay.
When you are deciding a thing, ask yourself "What is the impact on society?"
The Catholics want the world to have as many babies as possible. Their moral compass tells them birth control is a sin.
But, ask yourself "What is the impact on society?" Over population. Birth control should be allowed. God is overruled!
Should men be able to force a 14 year old to marry? Well, if we allow it, will it have a negative effect? Of course it will. See we did that without god.
Peter F:" How can nonbelievers have a code when there is no standard?"
This is certainly not something that can be completely covered in a comment post, but here are some thoughts...
One can have an outlook of 'enlightened self-interest'. Now that sounds crass, perhaps, but the fact is, we each do live in one body with one mind, which we strive to have survive. It might seem beneficial to yourself, at first blush, to take from others whatever you want. But in the end, they will also take from you. To foster taking care of the needy means that you will also have the chance to be taken care of. Truly selfless altruism is an illusion, since there is always *some* benefit or other for the giver... even if it is just a good feeling.
I know that believers will cry, “How selfish”; but really you all are, in essence, selfish also… desiring “God” to love *you*, and wanting him to save *you*; doing acts so that this “God” will be pleased with *you* and take *you* through eternity in glory.
Anyone ever notice that fundamentalist are always nuts? I mean look at the religious right. Mostly fundies. Totally nuts.
Some would say the far left is totally nuts as well. It's all about perspective...
@Peter F;
I am actually responding to your post above about morality. As per usual, @David Johnson, and I usually are very much on the same page.
It seems to me that you are saying that anyone who is a non-believer, does not or cannot live by a moral code.
Non-believers don't need the bible or any other book to tell them what to do or what not to do. Quite honestly, I know of more moral and good people that are non-believers, than believers.... and... I know, a good many believers.
Get off of your 'high- horse' about you have to believe in the bible or you are just someone running around with no 'moral' compass.' It is just common sense for most people–believers or non-believers... that you should not k*ll, steal, etc...
And.... No, the bible and the 10 commandments did not all of a sudden give everyone rules to live by, because everyone was soooooo lost.
Lighten up Peter F....
Peace....
David Johnson.....dont be fooled by Kennedys,obama's polosi, ect they hate us middle class folks. they want to tax us and rich to death and give our money away to poor and refusal to work . polisi and kenneys are extremely rich white liberals who fool minorities into believing they care....they dont liberal whites attack oil companies and love labor unions .....I say flat tax 15% accross the board and seal off our boarders...
@Gary
You said, "dont be fooled by Kennedys,obama's polosi"
Dude, hate to break it to you. Ted kennedy died. It was on all the news, even Fox.
@Gary
Google: "Why haven't I seen Ted Kennedy lately?" LOL, LOL 'till my sides hurt...
Mike ,I see your point. on being Good. Well ten commandments dont kill,cheat,steal,love thy neighbor,ect are great and I agree. I dont think it takes too much thought though to realize that by not adhereing to them society would wreak havoc. "The Golden rule "I try my best to live by it. I never new it was in the bible until I re- read the bilble 3 years ago. Many other quotes and such are great and psalms are in there too. but great poets ,secular men ,scientists have written great things throughout history.....None proves of a God. or who God is
I see your original post is gone.
Ha not that Jon Edwards or the politician either this one. Just add the address for wikipeadia on the front of it
wiki/Jonathan_Edwards_(theologian)
How do you use your brain if you don't read, listen, or participate. Think of how you learned to read/write/use a computer.
You say you are good but compared to what? That is not an insult just something to reflect on.
But if you read the text you should quickly learn that you can not be "good" and therefore have need of a savior in Jesus who is the Christ
Sorry this was a mistake, it was meant to be a reply
C.N.N. is very liberal. I am a agnostic staunch rightwing tea party activist. C.N.N. dosnt care for me and they erase a lot of my post.
@Gary
You said, "C.N.N. is very liberal. I am a agnostic staunch rightwing tea party activist. C.N.N. dosnt care for me and they erase a lot of my post."
You are breaking my heart, man. The right wing is racist.
Repent dude! Salvation can be yours!
If you care about the poor and middle class at all, vote for the Dems.
I would rather you be a fundie, than a Tea Party member.
You named all "word of faith" people, who Christians would agree are not Christians. What is your opinion on John Edwards, John Piper, Matt Chandler or Mark Dryscol
You should get your nose in the religious text so you can form an arguement against the text and not the people who don't use it.
Mike thanks for reply I named just a very short list of "word of Faith" preachers who quote directly from bibles and combined have millions of followers. Yes I am well aware no two christians belief the exact same thing. My wife and kids are devout Catholics/christians..... a church across the street in clear lake with Andrea Pia Yates as a member told the priest and some other members they were not "real" christians. Andra Yates by the drowned her 5 young children to make sure they go to heaven since they were actiing up. as far as the 4 other gentlemen I am only familar with a John Edwards who is a medium and speaks to spirits. I find it interesting but I can not prove or disprove him. My dad is a Geologist and devout Methodist. I respect him he isnt judgemental and understands earth is billions of years old and God wants us to use our brains.. Mike I am the kind of person who cant believe in something without proof. I have never met God,heard from God,or seen God. My gut feeling is there is a God and he wants me to be good and use my brain and not read some religious texts writen by other humans 2100+ years ago.
I see your original post is gone.
Ha not that Jon Edwards or the politician either this one. Just add the address for wikipeadia on the front of it
wiki/Jonathan_Edwards_(theologian)
How do you use your brain if you don't read, listen, or participate. Think of how you learned to read/write/use a computer.
You say you are good but compared to what? That is not an insult just something to reflect on.
But if you read the text you should quickly learn that you can not be "good" and therefore have need of a savior in Jesus who is the Christ.
@Mike
You said, "But if you read the text you should quickly learn that you can not be "good" and therefore have need of a savior in Jesus who is the Christ."
Well, you sort of touched on the fact that "good", is a relative term. Good may even be a "by degree" sort of thing.
If I obey the laws of the land, raise my children to be productive citizens, vote Democratic, give a fiver to the food bank once a week – I think I am good. Am I good compared to a Mother Teresa? Nope. But compared to this Mormon fundie, I am good.
If evolutionist are correct, and they are, the biblical creation story is a myth. That means there is no original sin. If there is no original sin, then there is no need for a redeemer.
We should all consider what is best for society. That should be the moral compass, not any religious text.
Cheers!
But, David, does your opinion on good and bad going to matter for all of humanity? You see, from where I am standing there is a moral and ethical code that ALL mentally sound humans know of. To the Christian (as well as the Jewish and Islamic individual) that code has been written on our hearts by the Lord God. Good is then the person who commits no sin, who does not hate his friends and neighbors, does not steal, commit adultery, gossip, lie, and so on. But to the atheist, there is no deity, and so no actual moral or ethical code to speak of. So what? Everyone gets to act on what he wants to do? The adulterer, the murderer, the polygamist can commit their crimes without actually being "wrong" in what they are doing? You can do whatever you want because you are not being held to any particular standard? Just food for thought.
@Peter F
You said, "But to the atheist, there is no deity, and so no actual moral or ethical code to speak of. So what? Everyone gets to act on what he wants to do? The adulterer, the murderer, the polygamist can commit their crimes without actually being "wrong" in what they are doing? You can do whatever you want because you are not being held to any particular standard? Just food for thought."
The cry from the religious is that atheists are not moral. The country, if not the world, would fall into chaos with everyone doing horrible things.
Look out your door. Millions of non-believers are not raping, robbing or killing. They are living peaceful and productive lives, apparently without the help of any god.
Meanwhile, not all of course, but millions of believers are raping, robbing and killing. It seems that, for some reason, the gods failed to inject them with that "code" you speak of. OOPS!
If a belief in god gives a person the "one up" on morality, why aren't non-believers more visible as a leading criminal element in society?
Using percentages of total population, the percentage of atheists in prison is much smaller – less than 1%.
So, that god given moral injection seems to be hard to prove. Cheers!
It would be interesting to find a statistic on faith contrasted with crime. Just saying generally that there are lots of atheists who don't break the law and a lot of Christians that do is a pointless argument because the same can go the other way. Lots of Christians live in the context of a tremendous ministry that gives to people in need while lots of atheists do break the law. That is because there are lots of people in the world. 🙂
@Peter F
You said, "It would be interesting to find a statistic on faith contrasted with crime. Just saying generally that there are lots of atheists who don't break the law and a lot of Christians that do is a pointless argument because the same can go the other way."
I don't invent statistics I post. The statistic I quoted about prison population is true. You will find a world of information by using "the google" as Bush would say. Start by googling "percentage of atheists in prison".
@Peter F
Because you can't compare numbers and have it be meaningful, we compare % of populations. Google this if you like.
But again, that would be tough, because there are lots of Christians that do not live by faith. You know, the gunslinging, tattooed gangsters that live by the motto "God helps those who help themselves" while wearing a huge gold crucifix. Not trying to stereotype, but we all know there are "religious" people who do not try to live sinless lives.
The koran allows a male Muslim to have four wives. Do some male Muslims in the USA have more than one wife? If so, are they breaking USA laws against polygamy? Might Jeffs, currently a Mormon from the dark ages, thereby declare himself to be a Muslim claiming koranic immunity from polygamy laws?
Actually, I don't care how many wives someone has, as long as they are all over the age of consent.
@Reality
We are a nation of laws. The law against polygamy stands regardless of religion. Thank god!
Regarding the "Koran" and "koranic immunity"? Ignorance can be exposed through more than just an opinion. If you are going to refer to a source to validate an opinion – at least spell it correctly!
@JimS
Spelling aside for @Reality, some would like to see and hear your opinion on the matter....!
Peace....
And.... We should be surprised that the 'UTAH' supreme court overturned his sentence...because......?
Bobross 2 , you understand my point. or do you protect all religious pedofiles and polyigamists ....
I'm not defending this guy because what he has done is wrong, my point is simply that you often write quite hateful remarks without offering any useful input. I understand that you're not a believer, but you should be able to respect others.
I certainly hope the prosecution gets it right the second time around so this doesn't happen again. In the alternative, give him over to the feds and see if they can't prosecute him under federal law.
Arizona can't do anything right. They created a racist law and now they are crying because a judge gutted it.
It is my hope that enough people will register and then get out and vote, to run these racist Republicans out of office.
Typical religious leader..came to power by the typical group of narrow minded relgious idiots. He should and all his followers should be ashamed but they are too religous and ignorant to admit to or understand their guilt.
You should just stop commenting Gary... If you don't have any useful input than just don't comment.
@bobross2
You said, "You should just stop commenting Gary... If you don't have any useful input than just don't comment."
This is a forum open to anyone's comments. Who are you to decide if his comments are useful? I think what Gary said, is spot on!