August 3rd, 2010
10:14 AM ET
Panel denies landmark status for Islamic center and mosque site near ground zero
From CNN Senior Correspondent Allan Chernoff in New York:
New York City's Landmarks Preservation Commission denied landmark status Tuesday for a building at the site of a proposed Islamic center and mosque near ground zero.
The commissioners voted unanimously against landmark status for 45-47 Park Place. It and an adjoining building are owned by real estate developer Soho Properties, which intends to build an Islamic center two blocks north of the former site of the World Trade Center.
While the public vote was the focus of much debate about the planned Islamic center and mosque, the commission could not have prevented the developers from building such a community center. The commission, by designating the building a landmark, could only have prevented Soho Properties from demolishing the building or significantly altering its exterior.
There is a prayer site in the building currently, so Muslims are peacefully praying in the building already.
"We will continue going forward with the project. It's a project that will build bridges," said Oz Sultan, spokesman for the Cordoba Initiative, the organization behind the planned center. It says the group is "committed to promoting positive interaction between the Muslim world and the West."
Cordoba opposed landmark status for the five-story building because it would like to build a taller, modern building. "It's not minarets," said Sultan, who described a mock-up of the proposed center as consistent with the latest architecture found in New York City.
New York City Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and other city leaders support the Islamic center.
Opponents, including former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, have argued against a mosque being so close to the scene of the nation's worst terrorist attack.
"Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing," Palin said last month on her Twitter account.
The Anti-Defamation League, an organization that battles anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry, is asking that the Islamic center and mosque be built farther away from ground zero in consideration of families who lost loved ones during the September 11, 2001, attacks.
"Building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain - unnecessarily - and that is not right," the organization said in a written statement.
The Landmarks Preservation Commission pointed out prior to its decision that it would have nothing to do with the planned use of the structure.
"The purpose of tomorrow's vote is to decide whether the building has a special character or special historical or aesthetic interest or value as part of the development, heritage or cultural characteristics of New York City, New York state or the nation," commission spokeswoman Elisabeth de Bourbon said Monday.
Most recently the home of a Burlington Coat Factory retailer, 45-47 Park Place was completed in 1858. The Landmarks Commission described it as "a prominent example of the store and loft structures that dominated the dry goods warehouse districts of Lower Manhattan" during the era.
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All I am asking is why mosque? why there? do you really think building something against the sentiments of thousands of people will "promote positive interaction between the Muslim world and the West."?
There already is a Mosque not too far away. This sounds more political than actually wanting to bridge a gap between Muslims and Non-Muslims. It's interesting one person put it that way. It's sort of an us verses them mentality and they don't even bring up the religions of all the Non-Muslims they are talking about. If they want some understanding maybe they should practice some too.
Exactly. The muslims too should practice TOLERANCE and accept to have their mosque built somwhere else.
This is nonsense, if you think that it is NOT a mosque then you don't understand anything about the muslims.
They will do what they have to in order to get this mosque or whatever they want to call it, built and once it is there,
then the city will have no more control. A university in Montreal was imposed a mosque on its premises, telling everyone that it was just a small place of worship for the (few) muslims attending classes. NOW the majority of the students are muslim – most other faiths were pushed out. The christian and jewish students did not ask for a place of worship in school. If they want to attend Mass or synagogue, they leave the school grounds.... Oh no not the muslims.... we have to do everything they ask – or else. What are you afraid of, this is YOUR country. When we visit their countries we abide by their rules, but for them HERE, we have to accommodate them..... WAKE UP AMERICA. – it is already almost too late.....
Deedz: Your words sound prophetic. Thank you for that scary example.
All the guys here spouting Peace and pbuh, etc. are just mouthing empty words. If they were so concerned about peace, they would have reformed islam by now and taken out the violent words out of the koran. Instead, they are asking you to give them some piece (of land) so they can ply their "conversion" trade on your most gullible.
Islam was and is never a religion of peace. It was born in violence, bred on violence and will die in violence. Only then there will be peace.
Blah blah blah! They still drive boats boats made with Japanese engines around Pearl Harbor everyday! Get outta here with that hollowed ground stuff. Americans don't really care.
Only one option works. Build it, fill it, lock it, burn it. Some things warrant the "Eye for an eye" approach.
i guess you think that statement makes you a patriotic american don't you?
in reality it makes you just like the people you claim to hate so much... what you described would be a horrible terrorist act... and you would be a terrorist.
you are a sick messed up individual....get some counseling
you r right
I love hearing these people talk about hating terrorists and then promote a terrorist act against a certain religion due to their own hated and lack of intellect
How's this for insight? I am not an American. I do not live in the US of A. I never have, never will, but I do agree with alot of you.
I never had a hate for any race or religion prior to all of this. Now I cringe at the sight of a Muslim. Is it my fault? I can't help that fact that they are the ones who call us infidels. Tell me face to face that I am not worthy. What gives them the right? We could never walk all over their lands with such a level of acceptance. Never.
That's straight. Is it cool if we put up a fundamentalist Baptist church in Mecca? Maybe a McD's?
USA is a secular country,saudi arabia is not, since when do we start comparing ourselves to saudi Arabia, what do you want next, women in USA wear veils and have a religious police to force u to pray to GOD. wake up dude.
USA has freedom of religion, that is why people want to build their people of worship, Saudi does not, and no one tries to build it either. if USA grants freedom of religion and then tries to curb the rights of some, then it is unfair....and most people who write here don't even know that this center is NOT ON GROUND ZERO, it is 2 blocks away, and moreover it is not a mosque...and Muslims pray wherever they are, check in your workplace if you have Muslims, they will be praying there somewhere,they make a mosque wherever they are,because they pray 5 times a day,and pray together,and in the same direction.
There is a McD's in Mecca. In fact, they are all over the place in Saudi. FYI.
There are plenty of McDonald's in Saudi Arabia.
I don't remember hearing that churches were banned on OK City after the bombing there. They are not building an a terrorist training camp, it is a community center and mosque. And people wonder why the rest of the world looks down on us, we treat our own citizens and neighbors as less then we are. Its a damn shame
Sorry, but that's an irrelevant comparison. I t wasn't a radical religious group that bombed the Murrah building. It WAS a radical religious group that flew those planes into the World Trade Centers. If these Muslims truly wanted to bridge the gap between the cultures, they would not have picked an area where there would be this much controversy. The fact that they are so insistent on putting it there shows how insensitive they are. IT is a historical fact that Muslims build mosques in the places they consider themsevles to have conquered. In this case, the mosque is concealed in a "cultural center".
Exactly! Irrelevant comparison! A more realistic comparison would be allowing flying huge confederate flags close to the OKC memorial and open a bookstore that only sells copies of the "The Turner diaries". Try that and watch the reaction.
The rest of the world looks down on us? Go to Iran and build a Chritian Church, go to any Muslim run Country and want to build a new Christian Church just a few blocks to a significant site. I am so sick of this tolerant crap, why do we have to be the only ones in the world that are tolerant...when was the last time you turned on the TV and saw your neighborhood pastor behead someone. I'll be tolerant when I can take a stroll down the streets of a Muslim Country and hand out Christian Bibles, until then I say tolerate my a$$
To ru4real: because America is a light unto other nations. Our ideals and values are higher.
Not a good comparison.. Timothy McVeigh was an agnostic.
i threatened no one. i have never threatened anyone. i don't have any plans on it either. what you are doing is lumping all of us together with a few bad apples who have done the things you say. "nut jobs" kill people all over the world, everyday, for one reason or another... that's just how things are. if we stopped building every place where someone has been killed, we'd have no places to build anything would we?
and btw do a little research... the community center (not mosque) is two blocks away from your "hallowed ground"....
A decision that might be legally accurate, but is disgraceful morally nevertheless. Shame on the people who're leading this work. They ain't building no bridge with me here by building an "Islamic" center. And the notion that the intentions behind buiding this are peace and harmony is naive at best, dangerous at worst. Follow the funding trail for this project and there's sure to be dubious hidden agendas ...
Its a free country. If you buy property- you should be able to build anything you want on it as long as its not harming people. Its probably the same conservatives who want government dismantling that want some arm of the government to step in and set a BIG precedent by restricting rights to economic AND religious freedom.
Stop calling it the "Ground Zero Mosque"! It's not at Ground Zero (it's several blocks away in Manhattan, which isn't that big geographically) and it's not even a Mosque! It's a community center that will welcome all faiths. Yes it does have a prayer room, but that's like calling a hospital a church because it has a chapel.
Get over it you crazy wingers!
Oh Good. I want to see the Jewish community going in there and see what happens.
As much I think tolerance is needed, this is unnecessary provocation, and the room for abuse of this center greatly outweighs the proposed benefits. I know that the majority of Muslims is against what happened on 9/11, but if one person can thank their god for what they see out the window at ground zero, it is too many. They should build it a few blocks away.
It is a few blocks away
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH MIKE....
so then all those christians in the past who built churches and thanked god for taking the land we now live on and freeing ourselves from essential "slavery" just to turn around and do it to every other race......those weren't too many but the one who can thank their non christian god if they look at ground zero is?
Mike – it is a few blocks away, you can't even see ground zero from the proposed site.
Ok hear is my argument..to those stupid liberals who doesnt have brain what they say...whats that reason creating mousqu there ..why not create all religious monumnets in one place...you should understand thats a trick...if liberals have enough guts to fight against other religion..why dont you guys go and fight in israel,kashmir and afganistan..you guys are bunch of cowards..always have lame arguments..look at INDIA one of the moste peacefull people in world headed by Mahatam gandhi ..leader of tolerance..that country is going to be islamic republic in 40-50 years..,,so the point is this is really unnecessary..USA should strengthen Islam liberals and they should fight against fanatism..they should clear their own mess from the community...that should be first task not Mosque...if you still support it God bless you..die like Peacefull indians in kashmir.........
Sad day for America and New York. For those commenting that they hope it bridges the gap between Muslims and the west....The Mosque could be built ANYWHERE else in the country. The reason it is being built at ground zero is on purpose, to slap Americans in the face yet again. I encourage everyone to boycott NYC. They are not acting in the interests of ITS people, but in the interests of foreign countries.
we'll boycott after you learn to read and get your facts straight, nowhere in this or past articles did it ever state it was AT ground zero. its BLOCKS away. screw boycotting NYC, let's boycott people who cant read first.
It's not liberalism... it's common sense. And a mosque in downtown manhattan is a good thing. Let's bridge the gap!
I agree with you (except the part about an NYC boycott, that won't help anything). The Islam community center (that means Mosque) could be built anywhere else in NYC and I think that true, peace loving, respectful Muslims would understand the sensitivity around this area and NOT want to build a mosque as close as possible to it. You know, in the interest of building bridges and relationships with the West, you don't rub salt in a wound. And, yes, two blocks away is close enough, I've been there. Here's the thing, a huge chunk of Muslims around the world cheered as the towers went down and 3,000 people perished. The mosque building should be fought on a legal basis and to the fullest extent possible. Where is the money coming from? And why does this imam want shariah law to be a part of American society?
As a New Yorker, I would like to lend my voice to Michael's and encourage the rest of America to please boycott New York. We won't miss your huge ass filled light jeans, FUPAs, Nascar T-shirts and fanny packs. Though I am sure our fake purse industry will suffer, as will our branch of the Bubba Gump Shrimp Company, it would certainly shorten the line at the Magnolia Bakery and make it easier to walk through Times Square. Yes Michael, I fully support you. Boycott away!
"They are not acting in the interests of ITS people, but in the interests of foreign countries."
So the people who belong to this mosque/community center are not Americans? Muslim Americans don't have freedom of/from religion?
How do you propose that one boycotts an entire city, especially one of the largest cities in the world?
sit down, drink a glass of bleach and rid the world of bottomfeeders like yourself.
Ok hear is my argument..to those stupid liberals who doesnt have brain what they say...whats that reason creating mousqu there ..why not create all religious monumnets in one place...you should understand thats a trick...if liberals have enough guts to fight against other religion..why dont you guys go and fight in israel,kashmir and afganistan..you guys are bunch of cowards..always have lame arguments..look at INDIA one of the moste peacefull people in world headed by Mahatam gandhi ..leader of tolerance..that country is going to be islamic republic in 40-50 years..,,so the point is this is really unnecessary..USA should strengthen Islam liberals and they should fight against fanatism..they should clear their own mess from the community...that should be first task not Mosque...if you still support it God bless you..die like Peacefull indians in kashmir.....
I hope it bridges the gaps between Muslims and non-Muslims Insha'Allah. I think non-Muslims need to take advantage of the community center and ask questions. That is one of the purposes of this community center. To be able to foster an understanding of what the Qur'an really says and no what the media proclaims it to say. I hope non-Muslims will forget what they think they know about Islam and go there with an open mind.
I live in a Muslim country. I see Islam and what it means every day. Remember, you're still in 1437 – what was Christianity like in 1437. Same thing. See you in another 600 years.
People don't seem to realize that once you start stripping the rights of one group of people(muslims,jews or whatever) it's only a matter of time before your rights get stripped away and you'll wonder how it could happen?
I am pretty sure that stripping away all rights to Muslims would be fine with most people and wouldn't really spread beyond that. The homegrown terror of non muslims in America is few and far between and very isolated in small groups. Stop trying to sugar coat everything and call an apple an apple.
WDrad, you are really all for stripping the rights away from every Muslim in America? What happens if a crazy pro-lifer blows up a doctor's office and kills innocent people, are we supposed to strip away all of the rights of the Catholic members of our society? Read a Martin Niemöller poem and kindly stop spreading intolerance and biggotry.
Mmmmm......Does that happen already? How about gay right to marry?
Ok hear is my argument..to those stupid liberals who doesnt have brain what they say...whats that reason creating mousqu there ..why not create all religious monumnets in one place...you should understand thats a trick...if liberals have enough guts to fight against other religion..why dont you guys go and fight in israel,kashmir and afganistan..you guys are bunch of cowards..always have lame arguments..look at INDIA one of the moste peacefull people in world headed by Mahatam gandhi ..leader of tolerance..that country is going to be islamic republic in 40-50 years..,,so the point is this is really unnecessary..USA should strengthen Islam liberals and they should fight against fanatism..they should clear their own mess from the community...that should be first task not Mosque...if you still support it God bless you..die like Peacefull indians in kashmir........
THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
I nearly fell off my seat after reading your opening statement Sam:
"Ok hear is my argument..to those stupid liberals who doesnt have brain what they say."
Seriously, you are going to start your argument by attacking others' intelligence when you cannot seem to create even one coherent sentence. Here is an idea, go back and at least get a GED, then make your argument.
Exactly! That is where you should build your mosque.
Why are they complaining about a mosque being built there? It wasn't Muslims who did the terrorist attacks they did something against there faith. If the world was like that most of the churches in Europe wouldn't be built in there specific locations. Let them build a place of worship anywhere they want just like we've done.
Ummm, it wasn't Muslims? Have you ever read anything in your life?
Ur an idiot!
Uhhhmmm, huh? muslims didnt attack the world trade center. uhmm, huh? are you the biggest moron that has ever lived on this planet? probably.
While it is true that Muslims did not bring terrorism, it is also true that majority of the muslims consider their religion is superior than their nationality. You will soon see that they would start giving sermons on how to marry christian girls and make more children to increase their population. It is right now happening in India. The population of one state of Kerala, India has grown from 17% to 23% in 5 decades. It is called 'Love Jihad'. They will pump in money from everywhere and start influencing poor non-muslims to convert by offerring money and employment; the same approach the Church is doing in poor countries for conversion.
I say built it, at first I was thinking it was "on" ground zero, which I thought was weird. But it's a few blocks away!!! Come on this is NYC a few blocks is a world away. I say build the mosque and close Sarah palin's Twitter account.
I certainly agree about Sarah Palin....
But I cannot believe that this mosque can't be built somewhere else. What no real estate available in NYC????
Why Ground Zero. You have not learnt anything about the muslims yet....Soon they will take over and convert us ALL. Heaven help us.
So build the Mosque because it's an exercise of free speech and freedom of religion and yet you say close Sarah Palin's twitter. As usual, another hypocritical liberal who doesn't actually believe in freedoms for ALL Americans...just the ones they want...
ah, Michael, I think the point is that no one CAN close Palin's twitter account much as we'd like to, just as no one should close another persons place of worship, much as they'd like to... Can't have it both ways–if you're a flag-waving "patriot", you must believe in freedom of worship
Your right. Two blocks in NYC is like being in another world. Let them build.
I agree with Michael's comment. You can't have it both ways.
Its all just a bunch of fearmongering. People have no idea about the reality of NYC. Two blocks in Manhattan is huge. Go pay a visit to a two block radius and see what other kinds of things are on the two block "sacred ground." People that say 'they can build it anywhere" also have no concept of the reality of NYC – there isn't available property anywhere on Manhattan. This piece opened up, and they bought it. That's it. Anyone that is saying "THEY BUILD MOSQUES to signify conquiring a territory!!" is merely echoing the delusional paranoid fantasy of Islamophobes. Such idea should not even be entertained as ratioal debate.
There IS a double standard when it comes to free speech, and it is conservatives rather than liberals who employ it. It's okay for idiots like Palin to deny someone else the freedom to practice their religion but when somebody calls the Witch of Wasilla on her bigotry the right wingers come to her defense whining about "nasty old liberals" trying to suppress her rights. Ask Michael...he knows all about this favorite ploy of conservatives.
@muzak – its 0.1 Mi or 2 minutes walking. literally in the shadow of WTC. Guess you're not from NYC. As somoone who works on Park Place, I am not looking forward to construction of this building. Am I affraid? No. But with the strong emotions on both sides of this issue, this will probably get ugly before anything positive can come from this.
I agree with Michael. Palin has a lot of good things to say. At least she can see how disrespectful a mosque near Ground Zero is. Others are blind to the reason a mosque would be there in the first place. It will bring in waves of Muslims to that area. It will try to spread Islam to children. It will try to gain converts. That is the only reason it is really there.
i find it entertaining that people are worried about the muslims converting other people when christianity and mormonism do the same thing. As a citizen of the united citizens everyone shouldnt judge on what someone else believes.
Ok hear is my argument..to those stupid liberals who doesnt have brain what they say...whats that reason creating mousqu there ..why not create all religious monumnets in one place...you should understand thats a trick...if liberals have enough guts to fight against other religion..why dont you guys go and fight in israel,kashmir and afganistan..you guys are bunch of cowards..always have lame arguments..look at INDIA one of the moste peacefull people in world headed by Mahatam gandhi ..leader of tolerance..that country is going to be islamic republic in 40-50 years..,,so the point is this is really unnecessary..USA should strengthen Islam liberals and they should fight against fanatism..they should clear their own mess from the community...that should be first task not Mosque...if you still support it God bless you..die like Peacefull indians in kashmir......
@Deedz You do realize New York City pretty much has no free real estate space, right? Or maybe you don't, because you're some moron from another state trying to poke your nose into New York City's business. Try visiting the city before making comments like yours.
despite what a lot of you think... this is going to be a good thing... insha'Allah.
i pray that it bridges the gap between Muslim and non-Muslim and breeds acceptance... i pray that we can build understanding between each other and get along. i think this community center is a good start. insha'Allah.
Give me a break!
let's hope so
Good luck with that, Ibrahim. I truly hope – truly- that your prayers are answered.
In the meantime, I and many others are keeping a very close watch on you and yours. Do not bring your evil here.
I am Jewish, am I included in your "non-Muslim" category or is it only for those other than Jews? I just need some clarification.
Freedtoo: i have no problems with any people of the jewish religion... when i say non-muslim... i mean non-muslim.... anyone who isn't a muslim. it's pretty arrogant of you to assume that just because some of my brothers and sisters hate jews, that i do as well. i treat all people with the same respect that they give me. that is what my religion calls for.
no one is being anti-semitic here... if thats what you're trying to say.
Thank you for the clarification.I am not accusing you of being anti Semitic, but my experience had shown that "most' Muslims hate Jews. Sorry if I offended you, but I am not terribly comfortable when 330,000,000 million Muslims want to destroy the State of Israel.
Not Israel because they would be destroying there own land. I was born in Jerusalem I am Muslim I have no hate for Jewish people but the zionism must end......forget Iran and all that bs because while theyre sipping tea in a mansion little kids are being deprived of EDUCATION!! All these politicians are all talk no action
this is baldardash. U guys dont tolerate other religions, so u must never be tolerated.
It will bred something, but not acceptance.
So being a 50 year old white woman you would welcome me in my jeans and t-shirt with open arms at the door as is or not? I would be able to freely move about within the mosque – so I can ask questions and understand – or would be forbidden? Just wanting clarification if this is really a "community center" for all without restrictions.
What will it take to breed acceptance of christians in the muslim world? will they be putting up a christian church in downtown Riyadh any time soon?
@ 369dove – I showed up at a mosque with black dress pants and a button down dress shirt (it fell about half way down my butt – so curves were viewable), to meet with a Muslim lady there and attend an "intro to Islam" class. I was THE only woman in there without a scarf, but no one said a word. N O O N E. I went again, dressed almost the same, during Ramadan for one of their iftars.
If you have LEGITIMATE questions and want to ask and are not comfortable with a scarf....don't wear one. But what you want to remember is how people USED to dress to go to church way back when (and since you're not much older than me....I'm 43, I'm sure you remember), which was in nice, conservative clothing. Not the hoochy gear some folks wear to church these days. Your boobs should not be on display, nor should you wear short shorts or a mini skirt. Most Muslims understand you are NOT Muslim, and by society's standards you are dressed fine.
I was setting up at a mosque once, for a dinner, and a lady walked in (I kid you not) with a tank top, no bra and short jean shorts. And she went to the men's area and was asking someone some questions. No one chased her away, but most men walked away or stared at the floor.
If you lived close to where I am, I'd invite you for tea or coffee and a talk! We're not so different than you think!! All of our neighbors are super friendly and always wave to us, and they are MUCH older than you, but they are white (as am I).
Seriously, don't be so defensive. Muslims are actually very nice folks. And I'm not just saying that because I'm one of them. =o)
This is a CLASSIC case of taqiyya: Muslim deception. Research TAQIYYA on google. Deception is prompted, actually within the sacred text, to further the cause of the totalitarian ideology.
Your chaseing pipe dreams Ibriham. Your obviously Jewish, so why don't you ask some of your people in Isreal if this will bridge the gap?
It's time to reign in some of this wonderful 'tolerance'. Just come out and say it – we don't want a Mosque anywhere near Ground Zero. You don't frighten me by threatening me with intolerance. You frighten me when you plan on taking over.
vitriolic anti-Muslim hatred
How about Islam's "vitriolic, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, anti-... hatred?
Anti-Christian? That's why there are still a continuous un-broken chain of ancestral Christian community in Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Syria, Qatar, Yemen, Turkey, and yes even in ultra-conservative Saudi Arabia.
Now what happened to the ancestral Muslim community of Christian Spain, Romania, Belarus, Macedonia, and even Greece? (note the word ancestral?)
Islam's Anti-Jewish hatred? That's why Jews were protected and saved from the Inquisition, Crusades, and the Holocaust perpetrated all by Christians on Jews. Not that you'd care about such history since it doesn't jibe with your rabid anti-Muslim bigotry.
Yasmin – I've had the pleasure of visiting Egypt and Turkey and seeing the old churches there and the Christian communities side by side with Muslims. But in Saudi Arabia no other religion is tolerated and no symbol of any faith other than Islam allowed. From what I have read it is even a crime to wish someone Merry Christmas in public to a fellow Christian. I wish more Muslims would work on making countries like that more open to everyone as they expect all the western nations to be.
Jacob: please don't use the word 'we' - you don't speak for me at all. I am not muslim, never have been. But I think this community center is an excellent idea.
I think it is very sad you think intolerance is a good thing. It shows a lot about your character. I imagine you value hatred and bigotry, too?
Im with you Jacob. there shouldn't be any religion period they are all venom. @Yasmin please spare me the christians jews and Muslims living side by side in those countries lecture. you can probably count the different religion worshipers with one hand. And as far as Muslims in Europe again you need to visit there because the entire region is infected with Islam ilk the only difference is that they dont put up the the strict BS of Islam and hence do not allow them to be leaders or influence policy like all the other backwards Muslim countries.. Thank goodness for that.
Apehanger is right. Islam regions in many parts of the world persecute anyone who is not Muslims: Jews, Christians, Hindu, Buddhists, etc. The mosque in NYC has only one purpose, to spread Islam which is NOT a religion that respects other faiths.
youre an idiot. the way a country's government makes its laws should have no concern of yours. thats the thing; christian bigotry. why dont we just kill all muslims? because thats called genocide. all this hatred that the american people have for islamic people is ignorance at its finest. the islamic religion didnt destroy the 2 towers. maybe put your tv on the news channel every once in a while instead of MTV
reign in tolerance...an oxymoron if ever there was one....here start here to see what exactly you are being asked to tolerate Angels Demons and How to Resurrect the Gospel, and my old time favorite The Secret of Min at UFO HumanLink...
Ok hear is my argument..to those stupid liberals who doesnt have brain what they say...whats that reason creating mousqu there ..why not create all religious monumnets in one place...you should understand thats a trick...if liberals have enough guts to fight against other religion..why dont you guys go and fight in israel,kashmir and afganistan..you guys are bunch of cowards..always have lame arguments..look at INDIA one of the moste peacefull people in world headed by Mahatam gandhi ..leader of tolerance..that country is going to be islamic republic in 40-50 years..,,so the point is this is really unnecessary..USA should strengthen Islam liberals and they should fight against fanatism..they should clear their own mess from the community...that should be first task not Mosque...if you still support it God bless you..die like Peacefull indians in kashmir....
Its simple, if you are an American and you are a patriot then you will support the Mosque being built. To do any less is to surrender to the terrorists that bombed the WTC and let the world know that they won. THIS argument is EXACTLY what they were trying to create. They want religious intolerance to thrive in America in order to get more people to hate us.
So go ahead, give in to the terrorists if you're that weak. I for one believe in my country. I don't believe our soldiers have fought and died in vain to protect our freedom.
Say "yes" and appease them.
Insh'Allah, despite the strong feelings right now, I hope Park 51s intended purpose of bridging the gap between Islam and other faiths and groups is extremely successful.
It better be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You cannot bridge the gap with muslims when they believe that their God Allah is the only one you are allowed to believe in. Their intention is to kill all those who do not believe in their God. There is no middle ground for them, you either believe or you die. Having the mosque built is their bridge into destruction of America.
Tammy, just how many Gods are there?
how is that any different from the Christians of the Middle Ages, or the Jews of Biblical times? Consider Islam the youngest child of the Abrahamic religions, going through what the other two already have: a violent growth stage.
Islam must have an extra long "violent growth stage," Muslims have been fighting and conquering lands since the very beginning of the religion with their Prophet Muhammad. It's interesting that the organization behind this community center is named the Cordoba Initiative, since Spain was the limit of Islam's expansion conquests in Western Europe.
The ignorance of many of you continues... shame on all of you
Islamic Spain (711-1492)
Islamic Spain was a multi-cultural mix of the people of three great monotheistic religions: Muslims, Christians, and Jews.
And for much of the time the three groups managed to get along together, and to some extent, to benefit from the presence of each other. It brought a degree of civilisation to Europe that matched the heights of the Roman Empire and the Italian Renaissance.
In short 'Cordoba' is a very good name as they actually want to build a community center for all the faith groups. Why it did not occur to any other faith group? Because islam is the relgion if practiced properly will allow people off all faiths to practice their faiths and benefit each other too. Oh New York City. What a perfect place to build such a centre.
Umme- you say the groups in Cordoba got along "to some extent". While its true that the christian population of cordoba was not enslaved as they were in other places, Christian and Jewish people, who lived there before the country was invaded and conquered by muslims, had to pay a tax to their conquerers for having the wrong religion and were discriminated against. It is no surprise that Muslims look at that society with more fondness that non-muslims. To look at in another way, Americans think we did Iraq a big favor by taking it over and installing democracy, but doubtless many Iraqis are not so happy about it. The name of a group designed to reach out to non-muslims should be judged as it is viewed by non-muslims, not by muslims, if the group's goal is truly outreach. On those grounds, it is not a good name.
The Golden Age
The Muslim period in Spain is often described as a 'golden age' of learning where libraries, colleges, public baths were established and literature, poetry and architecture flourished. Both Muslims and non-Muslims made major contributions to this flowering of culture.
A Golden Age of religious tolerance
Islamic Spain is described as a 'golden age' of religious and ethnic tolerance and interfaith harmony between Muslims, Christians and Jews.
Muslims, Jews and Christians were not holding hands and signing inspirational music in Cordoba. Very many non-muslims were sold into slavery, they were persecuted and killed for standing up for their beliefs. Cordoba stands as a beacon of the height of Muslim conquest and the apex of their goal to subjugate the entire world to their religion.
You cite that the muslims there were as benevolent and worked to integrate in much the way the Romans did. Your parallels are not even close. When the Romans made a conquest, they worked to integrate and adopt their culture into the local culture. Pagan holidays were adopted with a decidedly Roman church spin to become many of the traditional holidays seen in the west such as Halloween. Even religious symbolism dear to the locals was altered, but not done away with, such as the Celtic cross. These steps along with all the advances the Romans brought (roads, aqueducts, etc) were made to help ensure the locals did not resist the conquering Romans.
Unfortunately, this sort of reconciliation and integration is not seen with muslim conquests. Non-muslim cultural or religious structures, art, etc are more likely destroyed when muslims conquer. This has been seen over and over again – and most recently and publicized with the destruction of the Buddhas of Bamyan in present day Afghanistan. Even when a decree to protect the statues was issued, it didn't take long for them to become intolerable.
While the Cordoba House in NY will serve the community, how long will it be before the radical element associated with it start using it as a base once its decided the rest of the surrounding culture has become intolerable and must be forcibly removed?
hey tammy , enjoying your apple juice? GOOD. Muslim dont kill if you dont believe in their god. Christians use to live between muslims but only payed taxes. taxes as in money .......you take information from sites and turn them into what you want.
It is not true that the Christians who have coexisted with muslims in history just "paid taxes". For the many years the ottoman empire ruled the Balkans (Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, etc.), they forcably took boys from Christian families, enslaved them, and raised them to be soldiers in the Turkish/Ottoman army. Over 1 million Christian Europeans were also enslaved by Muslims of the Barbary coast. They were generally worked to death as galley slaves, which is why there is not a community alive today from their decendants. This was going on so recently that it happened to some in the early 1800's to some Americans unfortunate enough to sail ships in that area (when we finally stood up to the pirates rather than paying them tribute this played an important, but little recognized, role in early American history).
What does this have to do with the Mosque in New York? Not much. But the people who decided to name their group "cordoba initiative" should be aware of the history of the muslim conquest and rule of Spain thats behind that name. A group whos purpose is to reach out to non-muslims should probably be a little more sensitive.
Aaron: the bloody history of the Balkans is not completely matched by that of Spain. In Moorish Spain, christians and jews were allowed to live with little persecution, own businesses, build temples, and thrive.
In the Balkans, Europeans were captured and sold into slavery by the Turks; the christians hired terrorists to combat them - there was brutality on both sides (though I think the Turks were worse).
As bad as the conflict in the Balkans was, Cordoba Spain serves as a model of how religions can not only get along but thrive together.
Aaron what you said, if we think about it, there should not be any Christian left in Spain today. it should all be Muslims. But it is not true. There are mostly christians living in Spain today. Muslims are very few and they are mostly new immigrants. the reason is when the Muslim dynasty came to end n Spain, the Christians killed them all. Really. Check your history. It will open your eyes, mind and heart.
Just out of curiosity, how many Jews and Muslims and those thought to be Jews and Muslims, were killed during the Inquisition? Estimates are thousands. And most were tortured in a nice Christian manner before they were killed. All religions have instances where zealots go to extremes until they are stopped. There are too many, too quick to judge in the writes of these comments. It is a cultural center, it will have a small mosque (and restaurant, and a library). It is not at Ground Zero but 2 New York blocks away and one cannot even see Ground Zero from the location. We need to back off all the vitriol and treat each other as all Americans
tammy, calm. I too am hurt and shaken by both this news and by 9/11. But we need to see that it is not that way. Not all muslims want to kill people if they dont believe. It is a radical group of muslim-sick-terrorists. Think if it were in reverse. You were a christian in Dubai. and the US flies planes into the world's talest building there. All of the muslims would hate you. You didn't do it, the other christians did, the radical ones. so we should not punish all. just the ones trouble making e.g. the Afghan war. P.S. I am not muslim I grew up in LA and the United kingdom.. I am full protestant. we should only turn on all muslims when all muslims turn on us.
This is so true. You are absolutely correct. They don't have any tolerance. Just read the Quran..
If I was ignorant like yourself I would say so does Christianity...
1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it’s OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.
2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.
3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.
4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.
5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.
6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.
7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.
BUT I DON'T...
Stop peddling that garbage. You know that they worship the God of Abraham. Try keeping that hateful rubbish to yourself.
Um.... are you sure you're not talking about Christians here? Seems somewhat parallel.
Saying that every Muslim's sole intention is to kill anyone who doesn't believe in Allah, is the exact same as saying every Christian on earth is out to kill everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus. Do you want to kill everyone on the planet? Do you think Muslim mothers sit at home neglecting their children because they're too focused on the blue prints they have to destroy the entire planet? I'm sure they're more focused on how their husband's day was at work and what they're going to cook for dinner. Try to think just a little outside your realm of comprehension once in a great while
Christians believe "God" is the only God you can believe in. And Muslims do not kill those that don't believe. I would be dead now. I've known a number of Muslims over the years. They are peace loving, kind-hearted, community and family oriented people. There are radicals to be sure who go the whole kill path. But then again, there are Christians with that mindset as well. You can't judge all Christians by the actions of a few. Likewise you can't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few. The Westboro Baptist Church is not indicative of how all Christians act and behave are they?
Why would anyone in their right mind want to bridge a gap with them. None of their values built this country.
Yes "Tammy" those billions of Muslims aren't doing anything except coming for you because you're not Muslim.
There goes South Africa, Sweden, Brazil and all those non-Muslim countries that aren't bogged down in two wars against Muslim nations killing Muslims. I wonder why they are never attacked by Muslims?
I hope Park 51s intended purpose of bridging the gap between Islam and other faiths and groups is extremely successful.
Wishful thinking at best. Muslims don't want to bridge anything. They are intent on destroying anything and everything not associated with Muslim beliefs.
That's simply not the case. The badness and goodness lies in every group. It is human nature to strive to reflect the noble qualities of love, tolerance, acceptance, kindness, generosity, wanting for others the same as wanting for us, peace, etc.
islam goes out of its way to exclude women they are not allowed to pray in mosques, is this something we want in a free society
wrong. Women are allow to pray at mosque. Oh, they also are allowed to pray in the same room. I see them pray at the mosque everytime I go.
joxer, it is so not true. Women are allowed to pray in the Mosque. They can even have their own congregation and a woman can lead their prayers in the mosque. In every mosque in the USA, muslim women teach Quran to other women and children (I am one of them). They even get to go to mosque during periods, which is not allowed in other faith groups. How do we pronouce this name anyway? Jokester?
It is not muslim's beliefs, it is your belliefs my friend. If it was muslims belieft then you would already died
YUP, just like ALL of those batcrap crazy cults their solujtion to those that don't buy into the fecal matter they are selling is to "kill 'em all". Besides, according to these mental defects they are god's chosen people and have been appointed by him to rule the world. Nice work if you can get it, ruling the world that is....
Could you please explain why they chose to name this Cordoba? I have posted this question before, but it never seems to make it to the board...
See my post above. This is named Cordoba after the city where all infidels were subject to Muslim "justice" the better to make their point. Google Cordoba and see what you find
Your "crusade" is misguided.
Exactly. This was the seat of their Moor conquest in Europe. Seems kind of a strange name for a mosque in the middle of NYC, huh?
This reply was meant for your post.
Exactly. This was the seat of their Moor conquest in Europe. Seems kind of a strange name for a mosque in the middle of NYC, huh?
Well, that's an easy one. Cordoba is in relation to the "Muslim Conqeurers" of Cordoba Spain who invaded and conquered Spain in 711 A.D. It was said to have some of the richest Islamic "Caliphates" of the era. Muslim rule lasted until the late 1400's and is also noted to have Christians and Jews that co-existed with muslims but under massive restrictions of Muslim rule. There was a "Great Mosqueue known as the "Mezquita" and the Cordoba Initiative obviously plans to relive this erra by building invading America and building a new "Mezquita" in the Southern End of New York called "Park 51".
The Muslim God and Christian God are the same God. You people act like we're being invaded by Muslims, as if this is the "gateway mosque" to bring down all of America. You know there are mosques here already, right?
Actually, Lucy. If you read the Bible you will notice that God was certainly not full of love. Some of the actions by God were in fact quite cruel, and if God were a person, he would be considered bipolar.
But that's neither here nor there.
The point is that it is the same God.
You could fill a stadium with all the gods that have been worshiped throughout history, but I'm sure YOUR god is real.
right! put JFK airport on high alert!
Oh goodie, Lucy. Can I ask which Christian "God"? Is that the Catholic one? Is it the Anglican one? Baptist? Mormon? Maybe he's a Millerite? Or maybe he's a she? Is it the one I read about in the old testament or the one I read about in the new testament? Wait. It can't be the old testament one because...silly me...that God existed before Christ so how could he possible be a Christian God. This one true God seems to have changed quite a bit over the years. I'm really glad you've got it nailed down. Put down the pens boys and girls. All praise Lucy. Phew!
@SJALAL – TOELERANCE, that to it is coming from a Muslim, who belives somebody with any religion except ISLAM is an INFIEDEL !!!
Not only that you learn TOLERANCE, but also prove is ASAP, or else you will be DEMOLISHED.
@Tammy. Your statement is inaccurate. God between the 3 major regions (Islam, Christianity, and Judaism) is considered the same god. All 3 faiths have a lot in common. In Islam it is believed that Jesus is a Prophet. So please learn more about religion prior to making inaccurate statements. I'm Palestinian and went to a private catholic high school in Mass. They taught us about all the religions. I advise you to learn more about all religions.
So, anybody who is not among these three religions (like chinese, Indians Hindus, buddhists) are infidels and you mozem Jihadists can kill them? What's the point about your post?
divide and addition of gods to justify your evil !
So, anybody who is not among these three religions (like chinese, Indians Hindus, buddhists) are infidels and you mozem Jihadists can kill them? What's the point about your post?
divide and addition of gods to justify your evil !
When built, the abomination will have more CIA bugs than Carter has liver pills.
LOL George, you are probably right.
will see about that pos
Religions can have many things in common including those that use the religion to build barriers with intolerance and hatred (many of the comments illustrate just that; intolerance is not the property of any one religion). I hope you are right that the community formed around this new center will seeks to build bridges. At the end of the day, you buy the property and you get to do what you want with it (within reasonable limits of course).
From your comment I can sense your ignorance about Islam. Allah is the Arabic word for God. Jews use Elohim which is very similar. Muslims worship the same God as Christians and Jews. Usually people read a book then criticize it, don’t you agree?? You know nothing about Islam so I suggest you go and read unbiased books then start criticizing.
toto_22_1999....Muslims do not believe in the same God as Christians and Jews. Last time I checked the God of Christians and Jews does not call for the eliminating of non believers.
at least the muslims love Jesus. Jews hate Jesus. They are the original anti-christ. In fact, all practicing jews are anti-christ.
Christians eliminate non believers at heavens gate. This would include jews as non believers.
freepalestine...WOW!! That was a stupid comment.
As long as an individual clings to the twisted fecal matter mankind calls "religion" and the mind bending, delusional belief that there is some omnipotent diety in the sky that created the cosmos 14.7 billion years ags yet has time to "love and talk to just you" there can never be freedom for the human species....
So, just because everyone else doesn't share your point of view, your allowed to belittle the other side? See that's the problem with most Atheists...you just make yourself look like a hate filled ass trying to be witty. Leave it at the door or don't respond at all troll.
Neither does the Muslim god. Dont take things out of context and act like you know something when in reality you are an idiot and a bigot.
Do u know that after the crusade in Palestine the Christians killed so many people that they couldnt tell what is stone and what is wood? Everything was wet in blood.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Janice Walters, How many Gods are there?
In truth Janice, Muslims, Jews and Christians are all people of the book and all believe in the God of the Old Testiment. Muslims even believe Jesus Christ was prophet. I don't get my information from hate websites. I actually know and hold thoughtful discussions with people of the Islamic faith.
Neither does their faith. My many muslim friends would be quite offended by what you say.
not all Muslims are terrorists, but so far all terrorist have be muslim
joxer - all terrorists have been muslim? Do you remember the IRA (Irish Republican Army)? They were terrorists, and they were very christian. Do you recall the Hutaree christians from the U.S., arrested a few months ago for planning to execute an FBI agent and killing his family? They were christian terrorists, too. And there are African terrorists - christians, too - who go from villlage to village, rounding up and executing all the muslim children (to make the enemy religion die off).
Or are they 'exceptions' - because in your mind you have decided that all terrorists are muslims?
joxer, All terrorists have been Muslims???? When did Timothy McVeigh convert?
hmmmmm...IRA, ETA, Tim McVeigh to name a few....sorry bud but you are sadly mistaken.
Tell that to the families of the people killed by Timothy McVeigh. He wasn't a Muslim. Or how about Dr. Tiller's family. Do you even know what the word "terrorist" means?
Thank you for pointing that out!!! The last time I checked they were not christians.
As someone who once had the good fortune to stop for a bite to eat rather than carry on walking and thus avoided being right next to an IRA car bomb as it went off, I can safely say you are talking nonsense about all terrorists being muslims.
Please tell me where in the Q'uran does it say Allah instructs his believers to kill non-believers? Or is it just the interpretation man has brought forth?
you forgot that women are not allowed in mosques they are allowed in church
Advocating terrorism. Wow. That's an 'Amerkan' for ya.
I'm too ashamed to use the word American to describe you.
Please seek professional help.
Perhaps-but we should never be tolerant of the intolerant.
Jalal – Tolerance... yes, just like it's practiced in Saudi Arabia? Hypocrite...
When the Muslims become tolerant I will toward them.
if the peace loving sy,mpathetic people of the muslim faith truly were that, they would give the property to the 911 families in exchange for another building in NY.
that gesture of good will would show more for bridging the hurt than anything they could say
I have absolutely NO want/wish/desire/need or anything else to want to get to know muslim's... but thats MY choice and preference. From what I have seen, read, and learned, If they fell off the face of the earth it wouldn't phase me in the least... They are doing this more than likely and in my opinion, to pay homage to the terrorists who died killing Americans... and for nothing more... They, I am told, pray to their martyrs and that is the ONLY reason I can see that they want to do this within sight of GZ. Yall be sure to remember the 343 the next time you call 911, and if you are FOR putting this thing there, that tells me you could care less about those who died risking their lives to save those in the buildings!!!!
let new yorkers decide what will and will not be built in THEIR city. Those of you who don't live here, those of you who don't know what our diverse way of life is about need to SHUT UP until you get off your lazy corn fructose eating behinds and live beyond your own little insular middle american universe. You all sound inbred...like the trolls of deliverance.
I saw a video this morning and CBS TV news showing the imam of this proposed mosque saying that he thought that 9/11 was justified. I am damn sure that this mosque will serve as a center for terrorist activities eventually causing the deaths of many Americans. What a bunch of morons in NYC govt to allow these terrorists to build a monument to their attacks on our city.
A lot of good arguments, but the best one i have heard is; Not all Muslims are terrorist, But all terrorist are Muslim.
@Dee: You misread and misrepresent. Any person should read for themselves and find you take out of context and do not quote the entire passage as required for understanding. Nice one.
Can any one tell what happened to millions of Muslims of Spain?
Before some one put a twist on what happened to Muslims of Spain. Let me tell when Christians from neighboring countries took over Spain they killed every single Muslim living in Spain? How does that measure up to the " Islamic Spain (711-1492)" or the "Golden Age of Spain" under Muslim rule. Who were better those who killed the entire population which was following a different religion or those who allowed non-Muslim to live alongside Muslims.
I can not believe ignorance of some people on this topic. One post says Muslims were terrible because they imposed a tax on non-Muslims. Do you know Muslims themselves pay tax to the Islamic state. It is called Zakat. Do you know of any taxes which American government has imposed on Americans? I guess in your dream world killings of millions of Christians (i.e. local/Arab Christians), Jews and Muslims in Jerusalem by Christians crusaders of the 11th Century was like killing of a couple of ants, totally insignificant. What a bunch of kookoos.
You can build a mosque by Ground Zero if we can build a MOAB producing factory next to your mosque in Jerusalem.
It's interesting to read the majority of these posts. The individuals accusing the Muslim religion of hatred, are spouting nothing but hatred and vial things, while the Muslims and Muslim supporters are kindly trying to point out that this isn't true. Makes you wonder who is the most violent! We are all Americans, a country founded as an escape of religous persecution, not insight more of it. Not letting this project move forward will only provide the Ismalmic radicals more fuel to recruit for their warped cause. If you are a Christian then you should be familiar with terms like "turn a cheek", "forgiveness", and "love thy neighbor". We need to show the world that we are bigger than this and the people that flew the planes into our buildings will not allow us to hate others as they did, because the more we hate Muslims then the bigger the victory of the terrorists!!!
kill them all
The whole idea of this "mosque" is ridiculous. Why would people, who claim to be peace loving, purposefully bring to the forefront the very reason for so many deaths at the site of the World Trade Center? Is it arrogance? is it ignorance? Or is it, that if anyone protests then they are bigots and should be ashamed of themselves? I say, deny the "request" of the group and be done with it. No "mosque" for you! We should start treating them like they treat us in their country. To them we are outsiders, looked down upon, chided. They need to understand that they need to conform or leave!
Saladin, don't get carried away. I still don't understand why we need a mosque in the business district and expect to have five times prayers. Spending 100 Million dollars on a mosque is mind boggling. We can feed a poor muslim country for a year or may be five years and where is that money coming from, I thought Muslims are so poor that if some one in fact the whole west spitting on our faces and we can't afford to look in their eyes and wipe off the faces. This is going to be a million dollar mouse trap rather Muslim trap. Every word you utter and every action will be watched and taken out of context and off you go and make a great fodder for news media. The first Islamic mosque was built with thatched roof and mudd walls and not with million dollars.
Are you seriously kidding? You want a religion run by suicidal maniacs that feel the way to make things better is to strap on a bomb vest and walk into a crowd of people to make their statement? Or plow into some buildings with some airplanes and kill over 3000 people? They do it all the time in Pakistan and that's their own Islammic country. True Muslims SHOULD BE ASHAMED and REMOVE THEMSELVES from this so-called terroristic "religion" - a slap in God's face - but they don't because they are afraid. True Muslims have no voice, they are prisoners of their very own belief system - unless you all think its freedom to have terrorists "thin out the populace" whenever things don't go right in their own minds - Freedom is the right to live your own life and walk peacefully and respectfully with others - I truly don't think Muslims understand how they are controlled by this Taliban-Terrorist part of their own religion - the fear is embedded for that many generations. Wise up and speak up Muslims - if you don't start an open war and separation against that part of your religion that causes harm in their terroristic way, then you are just part of the problem - good Muslims should have been ashamed generations ago, but its only now, under world attention, that they are even aware that this is not a good thing. Its like kids under abusive parents - the kids are nice up to a certain age, and then they grow up and act just like their parents. Break the chain - be the loving people you are - kick the the Taliban, terrorists and all those power-mad-evil-harm-doing people out of your religion - separate yourselves from the evil within. Cross over. In my eyes, your Islammic center is a symbol of disrespect when built so close next to the place the evil part of your belief system destroyed - Its inappropriate and you good Muslims should be ashamed. Have you heard the one about the scorpion and the frog crossing the river bank? And the frog trusted the scorpion, but the scorpion bit the frog anyway - and when the frog asked why, the scorpion said, "But I am a scorpion and that's what I do." - Well Muslims have shown us what they do and they have the freedom to do what they want to do.... somewhere way far away from here... oh yeah, like Pakistan, their own country - let them figure out the terrorists situation over there and when they clean up their act, then maybe I will feel comfortable. Right now, I can see the good people through their religion, but they Muslim people can't see the evil in their religion. Muslims can't see the forest through the trees. They can't see how the terrorists / taliban control them. Be ashamed of that.