home
RSS
August 16th, 2010
07:00 AM ET

My Take: President Obama's assault on Americans' first freedom

Editor's Note: Tony Perkins is President of the Family Research Council in Washington, D.C.

By Tony Perkins, Special to CNN

President Obama has shifted centuries of U.S. diplomatic parlance. We no longer speak of freedom of religion; now, it is only freedom of worship that our government defends.

This is a radical departure, one that threatens to make true religious liberty vulnerable, conditional and limited. As some have said, it is a freedom "only within four walls." That is, you are free to worship within the four walls of your home, church or synagogue, but when you enter the public square or go abroad, leave your religion at home.

In international forums, President Obama and Secretary Clinton repeatedly have retreated to this "freedom of worship" formulation. This is no accident.

Now, President Obama's representatives at the United Nations have shifted ground. The U.S. delegation to the U.N. recently spearheaded approval of the International Lesbian and Gay Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC). This outfit has just been recognized as a non-governmental organization accredited to the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council.

It's part of the Obama administration's campaign to press the U.N. to affirm the homosexual lifestyle worldwide. For example, IGLHRC members refused to answer the following question put to them in the U.N. last June: Would a member of the clergy be prosecuted for human rights violations if he or she preached on the sinfulness of homosexuality? No response.

Their silence is deafening. No wonder the NO votes plus abstentions exceeded the YES votes for seating this radical group. Significantly, the Egyptian delegate noted that his questions had not been answered. He charged the IGLHRC with violating tenets of Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the U.N. Charter itself. (Coming from Egypt, itself a persistent violator of these U.N. documents, the charge must have stung.)

With President Obama's nomination of Elena Kagan to the U.S. Supreme Court, the potential erosion of religious liberty only increases. Ms. Kagan has argued that incorporating foreign law into U.S. Supreme Court rulings would be "a good idea." She maintained in a legal brief that not only must U.S. institutions be barred from expressing disapproval of the homosexual lifestyle, but that a “society that tolerates (such) discrimination by its members is not a just society.”

To Kagan, any public disapproval of sexual relations between men and men or women and women, or any attempt to give preference to marriage as the union of one man and one woman, will inevitably be seen as a form of invidious discrimination-and must be banned.

America's First Freedom–freedom of religion–is in danger of being hounded out of public life, expelled from the public square. The word to millions of believers–Evangelicals, Catholics, Lutherans, Orthodox Jews–is this: Be Amish or be quiet. Keep your quaint religious practices, mumble your odd prayers, but do so in private.

Think of the implications: You try sharing the Gospel with someone, and are accused of "hate speech" and told to be quiet. You have a Bible on your desk at work, and are told this is an aggressive display of a controversial faith–and to remove it. Your church has a float in the local Fourth of July parade and it's denied admittance next year because someone says the float violates his or her private convictions.

The above examples are hypothetical, but here are three that have already happened:

–You express disapproval of homosexual conduct and are summarily dismissed from your counseling degree program. This has happened to Julea Ward at Eastern Michigan University, and Jennifer Keeton at Augusta State University is under the same threat.

–Say you are a wedding photographer. A same-sex couple comes through your door demanding you provide photos for their commitment ceremony. You politely decline, stating that your religious convictions prevent you from entering into that contract. And you are promptly hauled before a human rights council. This happened to Elaine Huguenin in New Mexico.

–You object to your kindergartener being propagandized with a book titled King and King, which details the romance between two imaginary royal young men. You find yourself arrested and jailed when you go to your son's school to protest. This happened to David Parker in Massachusetts.

These things will become the norm in American life if the radical impulse to criminalize opposition to homosexuality is not thwarted.

As a candidate for president, Barack Obama pledged to bring "fundamental change" to America. He is doing that. Constitutional liberties that we have enjoyed for 219 years are being overthrown or reinterpreted with stunning speed.

Every poll shows Americans are resisting President Obama's agenda. But many in the mainstream media largely downplay these questions, dismissing them as mere "wedge issues."

For people of faith, these matters of faith and family go deeper. They are "bridge issues" that unite races and ethnicities, men and women, education and income groups.

The radical changes President Obama and his allies advocate threaten the America we love and the way we express our most deeply held moral and religious convictions. We will be neither silent nor inactive in the face of these challenges. With courtesy and civility but with unflinching determination, we will oppose them.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Tony Perkins.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Barack Obama • Homosexuality • Politics • Religious liberty

soundoff (265 Responses)
  1. Adele

    Sorry, you asked what church did I now believe is the true church? I thought I made it clear in a prior post, that I believe the true church is the body of believers that have been saved, baptised and filled with the holy spirit.Are keeping the 10 Commandments, and living a godly life, as he demands. I know of alot of people who attend church of other denominations, that beieve in the trinity of God, and do the above things. They do what is commanded. Jesus said ALL people would be saved that do these things. They are visible,too.
    Also, I don't know if you saw this (I know the posts are long and alot), but I had a question to:
    Reading that, I see that the Popes so called "infallibilty" which is ratified by man (Council of Constance) defies what God commands. It is a mistake to believe that EVEN IF this pope is evil and a reprobate, he is still to have obiedience from the faithful?? (Catholics) That is against evrything God teaches. It is God and God alone that we are to answer to. Also, is this why the Pope has not spoken against the Preists of the Catholic Church that have molested children?
    Vatican Declined to DeFrock US Priest That Abused Boys
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/world/europe/25vatican.html
    Per your own words: If it is indefectible, the gates of hell will never prevail and she will remain the "spotless Bride of Christ", .
    "regardless of the Moral staus of any individual member" ?? Is that how its justified? That to me is hardly without stain or wrinkle, and tells me even more that it is not the Cathoilc Church that Christ referenced?
    Please read the abobe link.
    Ok I am off to try and answer some more of these. May not post till late tonight or tomorrow morning.

    August 23, 2010 at 6:17 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      The page you wanted me to see was gone.

      But I can respond regardless.

      There is no one more upset with sinful priests than the Pope and he is working to eradicate them from the priesthood. It is never fast enough for anyone to see these infiltrators removed so that they can never harm another person.
      In those persons eyes who hate the Catholic Church, they would just as soon see all good priests go down with the bad; and it follows, does that mean that all men in every walk of life should be spat upon and accused of these atrocities because of brothers, uncles, fathers, grandfathers and nephews have been found to be pedophiles? It will be taken care of as it should be; may they each be removed that are found guilty.

      The Pope is infallible in faith and morals but this does not mean that he is impeccable.

      You still do not understand that the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ’s ‘instrument’, if you will, not counting on the people as the instrument. It is Jesus Christ’s manner of dispensing grace to His people. The Sacraments are the Church which are without stain, wrinkle or such. People cannot be the Bride of Christ.

      Gal 4:26….through Mother Church is the promise of God preserved…[the promise of God cannot be preserved by sinners, they cannot be trusted]
      Rev 12:17….Church is protected while the individual Christian can expect persecution and suffering….[when people realize that it is not the Church that has done the sinning, they realize it is the body of believers who are the sinners]
      Eph 5:25….Christ’s Church is holy…unblemished. [sinners are not unblemished though they try to live holy lives….they are still sinners]

      There are other verses which also can show that the body of believers is not this physical/visible Church that the Bible is speaking about. The mystical body of Christ, the body of believers is not visible as in a manifestation as the Church is. I cannot see this mystical body with Christ as the head; no, when I see my neighbor or a stranger in a store I cannot be sure if they are part of this mystical body or not. It is not important that we know as long as Jesus Christ knows, and He does. Also, we do not know who will be cut off as a branch from the vine because of not producing good fruits, but God knows.

      I look forward to your next post…..

      August 23, 2010 at 11:45 pm |
  2. Adele

    I will address the rest this evening.
    Please understand that I do not resort to using websites that spread lies. I am sorry if I resorted to using something that offended you. My source is, and always has been the bible, KJV original, the word of God. I may use a website to point something out, that I believe based on my beliefs.
    Having come from a Catholic family, and being a Catholic (no longer a Catholic) I am well aware of her teachings and where they come from. It is my choice to go directly to the word of God, from his holy scriptures, and not what the Catholic church has defined the word of God to be.Tthey have always discouraged using the bible, outside thier Catholic Bible, and of course thier Catechisms.
    What one disagrees with about the Catholic Religion, should not be coined "lies" or "hate". I personally distain "religion" as a whole, because of these things.
    I believe God will enlighten as we seek him THRU the Holy Scriptures. It come right from him, and not from those who base things on what they believe or want believed..

    August 23, 2010 at 8:11 am |
  3. Adele

    The Bible says, the blood of Jesus purifies (washes, cleanses) us
    from all sin. (I John 1:7) We have all sinned. (Romans 3:23-25) We are condemned to death
    because of the original sin of Adam and Eve. (Genesis 3) But that was not what God wanted for
    man. God loved us so much He sent His only Son that we may have everlasting life. (John 3:16) Note it says ALL sin, which covers Original Sin.
    Nothing is destroyed by baptism. Trusting in Jesus with your whole heart, His blood is what takes away your sin. Baptism is just showing to the world that your 'old man' is dead and you have a new life through Christ. You don't have to be baptized to be saved. Remember the thief that was crucified with Jesus. Jesus said that he would be with Him in paradise. That man didn't have the chance to be baptized, but he believed.
    You asked where it says in the Bble we must confess Here it is:

    15.“And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:14)
    When Jesus was baptised by John the Baptist, he then recieved the Holy Spirit..
    And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    We receive the Holy Spirit as a gift, not on the basis of works, but by "hearing with faith" (Galatians 3:5). We don't receive by doing outward things, we must simply believe that we receive.

    Mark 11:24 "Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they shall be granted you."
    John was the last of the Old Testament prophets. His message was intended to prepare men for the coming of the Messiah, and for the message of salvation that would be proclaimed after our Lord’s death, burial, resurrection, and ascension. Jesus and the apostles made it clear that there was more to the gospel than what John proclaimed, as good as that was:

    For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:5).

    The law prepares us for grace by showing us our sin, and the impossibility of pleasing God through good works. Thus, the law requires us to look to God for salvation by grace, and not to ourselves:

    Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (which is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed— namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (Romans 3:19-24).
    Ephesians 5:18 tells us, "And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled continually with the Spirit." The Greek tense for filled implies the idea of keeping on being filled. It has been stated that it takes just as much consecration to remain filled with the Spirit as it does to get filled with the Spirit or baptised in the Spirit in the first place. Perhaps it takes more.

    In any case, the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is an introduction to the realm of the Holy Spirit. We must continue to "walk by the Spirit", and so, "not fulfil the lusts of the flesh". It is possible to begin in the Spirit and then later "fall from grace" (Galatians 3:3; 5:4). This happens if we turn back to the law and ignore the leading of the Holy Spirit. Therefore we must not become proud and self-satisfied with the idea that we have been baptised in the Holy Spirit, but we must continually humble ourselves, deny the flesh and be led by the Spirit day by day (Luke 9:23
    It is by the GRACE of God we recieve the Holy Spirit. Yes, Johns Baptism was an outward sign of Repentance and Faith.
    Baptism in the Holy Spirit followed that.

    August 23, 2010 at 7:56 am |
  4. Darryl

    Did anyone read and understand the first paragraph? It is a blantant distortion of the explanation used for building the Mosque in NYC. From that, he develops his theory on President Obama's attacks on religious freedoms. If any thing is radical, which is a commonly used words by radicals to deflect their own radicalism and make the other seem abnormal: it is the desire of one religion, segmented into many denominations that do not agree on their own saviors teaching, dominating another religion in public.

    Mr. Perkins is fueling the age old religious hatreds of who is closer to God in the poltical sense to gain poltiical partners against the Obama adminstration. There is something in the bible about bearing false witness that he shoudl examine closely. But with so many different Christian sects that do not agree, he may belong to one that freely chooses what aspects of Christ's teachings they like and just discard the rest as nonsense. And if that is the case, no one is stopping him from living that practice. They are just askiing him not to infringe on their lawful right worship where and when they choose.

    August 23, 2010 at 7:55 am |
  5. Adele

    Ok, Thanks for the scripture of the healed by faith. I am in agreement on that. I wasn't sure what you meant by that, which is why I asked for the scripture. That is certainly true, as we can pray for those that are sick and the Lord does answer through prayer.
    Sometimes it is hard to interpet what one is saying thru posting, and I wanted to be sure I was understanding what you said there.

    August 23, 2010 at 6:54 am |
  6. Adele

    Good Morning CatholicMom!
    Isn't it wonderful, being a Grandma? I have 4 children, a son and 3 daughters. NO great Grandchildren yet, but have 12 Grandchildren..all the delight of my life 🙂
    I love cooking and gardening, and a host of other things. Thank You for sharing with me.
    I will address the fist part of your post, but may have to wait till this evening to address the rest, as the little one will be here soon,lol!

    August 23, 2010 at 6:49 am |
  7. CatholicMom

    Adele,

    I am so sorry all my posts are so broken up but they would not let it all post and there are still two parts that won't 'stick'. I guess I will give up and suggest you copy and paste them all together on a draft and that may help to pull my thoughts together for you better understanding. I hope you have better success at posting...

    August 22, 2010 at 10:26 pm |
  8. CatholicMom

    Adele,
    Just to let you know a lttle bit about me, too,....I have 3 children, 10 grandchildren, and 2 great-grandchildren! I enjoy grinding wheat berries and making home-made bread for their school lunches.
    Have a wonderful day!

    August 22, 2010 at 1:11 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      What about Original Sin? Baptism is our being incorporated into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit! One does not become a member of the Body of Christ by saying the sinner’s prayer. [and where is that in the Bible, anyway?] If a baby is Baptized, it is washed of Original Sin and is filled with the Holy Spirit by the faith of its parents or guardians. One can be healed by another’s faith: [Luke 7:1-10] ‘Jesus heals a Centurion’s servant’ because of the Centurion’s faith.

      August 22, 2010 at 10:14 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      John the Baptist’s Baptism was an outward sign of repentance and faith but not of grace. The Apostles could not receive the grace of the Sacramental Baptism until the death and resurrection of Jesus. On the evening of that day, the first day of the week [Easter Sunday], the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
      John 20:19-22
      This was their Baptism.

      August 22, 2010 at 10:16 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      The small c church, you will agree, is known to have sins….thus the devil is prevailing against the [c]hurch in that way. Jesus is not a liar. The Catholic [C]hurch is still standing because of Jesus’ promise. The devil is not prevailing against it. So, you can know that Christ is the spiritual Rock of the Church and He made Peter the earthly Rock of the Church.

      A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ that signifies the grace that it bestows.

      Confirmation is the Sacrament that strengthens the graces received by the Sacrament of Baptism (Confirmation does not bestow the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to a Christian, the Sacrament of Baptism does that). On Pentecost the Apostles received a strengthening of the sanctifying gifts of the Holy Spirit that they already possessed, and they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that is, they received the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit that enabled the Apostles to evangelize the world and build up the Body of Christ.

      Adele, you still have not told me which Church is the Bride of Christ. Remember, it is the one without stain, wrinkle, or any such thing…. REV C H SPURGEON did not give the name in his sermon that you sent, plus, back in the 1800’s there weren’t quite as many as today’s over 30,000 ecclesial communities to choose from. Which do YOU say it is now?

      If you really want to know what Catholics are taught and what we believe, you can easily go on line and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Catholic Encyclopedia, the many sites that carry the imprimatur as being in line with Catholic teaching. When you persist on going to Catholic hate sites you will remain where you are about the Truth of the Catholic Church, in the dark; don’t waste your time reading lies. Why don’t those Catholic hate sites preach Truth to you instead of running down the Church that gave them the Bible? Why don’t they build you up instead of tearing down Truth that you desire instead of trying to make you hate the Church even more? When they run down the Church that Jesus founded they undermine any Truth they may profess! If the Church is so horrible why take anything from it all… not the Bible or the Truth about the Trinity, Eucharist, Immaculate Conception, Incarnation, or anything else….

      August 22, 2010 at 10:17 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele, you still have not told me which Church is the Bride of Christ. Remember, it is the one without stain, wrinkle, or any such thing…. REV C H SPURGEON did not give the name in his sermon that you sent, plus, back in the 1800’s there weren’t quite as many as today’s over 30,000 ecclesial communities to choose from. Which do YOU say it is now?

      If you really want to know what Catholics are taught and what we believe, you can easily go on line and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Catholic Encyclopedia, the many sites that carry the imprimatur as being in line with Catholic teaching. When you persist on going to Catholic hate sites you will remain where you are about the Truth of the Catholic Church, in the dark; don’t waste your time reading lies. Why don’t those Catholic hate sites preach Truth to you instead of running down the Church that gave them the Bible? Why don’t they build you up instead of tearing down Truth that you desire instead of trying to make you hate the Church even more? When they run down the Church that Jesus founded they undermine any Truth they may profess! If the Church is so horrible why take anything from it all… not the Bible or the Truth about the Trinity, Eucharist, Immaculate Conception, Incarnation, or anything else….

      August 22, 2010 at 10:20 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      The small [c ]church, you will agree, is known to have sins….thus the dev*l is prevailing against the [c]hurch in that way. Jesus is not a liar. The Catholic [C]hurch is still standing because of Jesus’ promise. The dev*l is not prevailing against it. So, you can know that Christ is the spiritual Rock of the Church and He made Peter the earthly Rock of the Church.

      A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ that signifies the grace that it bestows.

      Confirmation is the Sacrament that strengthens the graces received by the Sacrament of Baptism (Confirmation does not bestow the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to a Christian, the Sacrament of Baptism does that). On Pentecost the Apostles received a strengthening of the sanctifying gifts of the Holy Spirit that they already possessed, and they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that is, they received the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit that enabled the Apostles to evangelize the world and build up the Body of Christ.

      August 22, 2010 at 10:23 pm |
  9. Adele

    Oh, I guess I misunderstood,lol. Yes, I will continue should you like, as long as this comment board is up.
    I may be sporadic in my posting this week, as I am watching my 3 year old grandson this week. That means I will have to do this in the evening as time permits.
    I am looking forward to chatting with you here! Thanks for responding as always.

    August 22, 2010 at 10:49 am |
  10. Adele

    CatholicMom

    I have copied and pasted our 'conversation' due to the fact that they remove entire comments from time to time. We could always find each other on another comment and continue that way.....what do you think?

    Yes, thats fine. I know its hard to talk to this extent under a blog. It was nice chatting with you anyway. God Bless You and May Jesus Peace and Love be with you always. Sincerely, Adele

    August 21, 2010 at 9:04 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Oh, I didn't mean 'Good-bye'! Are you gone from here now or will you continue as long as the comment is up?

      August 22, 2010 at 9:25 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      The Catholic Church isn't thought of as a "denomination," as one choice among many or a variation on a theme that one "prefers" or doesn't; She is The Church founded by Christ through Peter. Beyond that, She is older than Her 2,000 – two thousand – years; as Israel, She reaches back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. She is both in time and timeless. She's an idea in the mind of God and of which the EARTHLY CHURCH is the manifestation, the becoming visible.

      August 22, 2010 at 10:09 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      From your words you show that you do not see the Catholic Church as the dispenser of the Sacraments that Jesus Christ instituted, as being the visible Church that Jesus Christ founded. Here are some guideposts……to help you see that it IS the Catholic Church, not an ecclesial community that is the manifestation of Christ’s visible Church….

      1 Tim 3:15…Church is the pillar and foundation of truth….we know it cannot be us who have a fallen nature with the ability to sin…we sin even when we don’t want to!
      Mt. 28:18-20 ……Jesus delegates all power to Apostles and their successors… the job of Baptizing whole nations could not be done by a few men during their lifetimes….
      Jn 20:23….power to forgive sin…people were amazed that God had given such power to men [not a man].
      1 Cor 11:23-24….power to offer sacrifice [Eurcharist]…persona Christi….in the place of Jesus Christ, a priest forever and our high priest…
      Lk 10:16….whoever hears you, hears me; rejects you, rejects me….did you know you need to HEAR the gospel by someone who has been SENT?; Jesus told His Apostles…I SEND you, as the FATHER has SENT Me. A person cannot send himself….someone has to do the sending…

      August 22, 2010 at 10:11 pm |
  11. Adele

    LOL..wow! That was huge one! I was n't even aware of the length of this as I typed it. Thanks to God, it posted!

    August 21, 2010 at 11:17 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      The Catholic Church isn't thought of as a "denomination," as one choice among many or a variation on a theme that one "prefers" or doesn't; She is The Church founded by Christ through Peter. Beyond that, She is older than Her 2,000 – two thousand – years; as Israel, She reaches back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. She is both in time and timeless. She's an idea in the mind of God and of which the EARTHLY CHURCH is the manifestation, the becoming visible.

      From your words you show that you do not see the Catholic Church as the dispenser of the Sacraments that Jesus Christ instituted, as being the visible Church that Jesus Christ founded. Here are some guideposts……to help you see that it IS the Catholic Church, not an ecclesial community that is the manifestation of Christ’s visible Church….

      1 Tim 3:15…Church is the pillar and foundation of truth….we know it cannot be us who have a fallen nature with the ability to sin…we sin even when we don’t want to!
      Mt. 28:18-20 ……Jesus delegates all power to Apostles and their successors… the job of Baptizing whole nations could not be done by a few men during their lifetimes….
      Jn 20:23….power to forgive sin…people were amazed that God had given such power to men [not a man].
      1 Cor 11:23-24….power to offer sacrifice [Eurcharist]…persona Christi….in the place of Jesus Christ, a priest forever and our high priest…
      Lk 10:16….whoever hears you, hears me; rejects you, rejects me….did you know you need to HEAR the gospel by someone who has been SENT?; Jesus told His Apostles…I SEND you, as the FATHER has SENT Me. A person cannot send himself….someone has to do the sending…

      We sinners,…., lay persons, priests, the Pope, the Bishops,… ….we are the mystical Body of Christ ….and, we are called the church [small c]. When we speak of the EARTHLY Church [large C] , it is the visible manifestation, the dispenser of Sacraments…from which the graces from these Sacraments are bestowed on the sinners; it is the pillar and foundation of Truth; also the Bride of Christ. These are Truths from the Bible.

      August 22, 2010 at 10:07 pm |
  12. Adele

    Good Morning CatholicMom!
    I am going to address your first response to what I wrote. Then, I will go to the next of your posts. Some are easier to respond to, others require me to understand what your Church believes on some, before I can give an answer back.
    So, I will attempt to answer your first response, to my first post.

    Regarding some scripture with others left out..others ignored. I did not ignore them, but I would have to post alot and lenghten our communication under this thread. Since you even acknowledge in a prior post, you are typing these in parts, as if they are to much, they will be pulled for moderaion. So am I. Also, the scriptures I adhered to, where the ones that directly address what you referenced.
    Next, you ask: If the Catholic Church is not the one, then tell me which one is?
    Here you are:
    THE CHOSEN
    CHURCH, THE OBJECT OF THE SAVIOR’S LOVE.
    Some of our brethren are very fond of what is called the general or
    universal view of Gods benevolence. I trust we are not afraid to deal with
    that, whenever we come across it in Holy Scripture. We believe that God
    is good to all, and that his tender mercies are over all his works. We
    believe him to have the love of benevolence towards all his creatures, and
    we can preach without bated breath upon such a text as this He is not
    willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But
    some of these brethren are very much afraid of the peculiar and special sign
    of the Savior’s love, and they seem to shrink from a text which has
    anything particular and discriminating in it; and shake it off from their hand
    into the fire, as Paul did the viper of old. Now we thank God we have
    learned to love the distinguishing doctrines of grace; and that
    predestination and discrimination are not hard words for us to pronounce
    now, neither do they grate upon our ears; but we love to read this text, and
    put the emphasis upon the accusative case.
    Christ loved the Church, and
    gave himself for it. We perceive that Christ did not love the world in the
    sense in which the term loved is here meant. We see here that Christ
    gave himself not for the world, but for it, that is the Church. In the sense in
    which he is said here to give himself, he did so for none except his chosen
    people, the Church; his one, special, and particular object of affection. It is
    not thus that Christ has loved universal creatureship-and all mankind alike
    without exception or difference-but he loved the Church, and gave himself
    for it.
    Now what is this Church which Jesus Christ loved, if it be not the entire
    company of the elect? As many as the Father gave him from before the
    foundation of the world, whose names were written in the Lamb’s Book of
    Life before the stars began to shine-as many as were taken by him to be the
    sheep of his pasture, the jewels of his crown, the children of his love, the
    subjects of his kingdom, the members of his body, each one of them being
    particularly known to him, and chosen in him before the mountains lifted
    their heads into the clouds-so many compose the Church of Christ which
    was the object of his redeeming love.
    We have to search for these chosen ones in what is called the Church
    visible. We know that they are not all Israel who are of Israel, and that the
    visible Church is not identical with that Church which Christ loved, and for
    which he gave himself. There is a Church invisible, and this is the center,
    and life of the Church visible; what the wheat is to the chaff and heap upon
    the threshing floor, such are these living Christians amongst the mass of
    professors in the world. There is a distinction which we cannot see, which
    it is not for us to try and make manifest, in endeavoring to root
    up the tares, we root up the wheat also. There is an unseen Church which
    becomes visible in heaven, which will be apparent and manifest at the
    coming of the Son of man. This it is which Christ loved, and for which he
    gave himself.
    Again, the whole church that is cleansed in the blood of Jesus...all people not just Catholics.
    Now, regarding Birth Control..you stated:
    :Here is an example of Christ’s Church: The Catholic Church alone among Christianity can say that we do not bind error; an easy example is birth control – until the 1930's, every Christian church stated that birth control is morally wrong. Since then, all but one have reversed positions. The conclusion is simple – either they taught error then, or they teach error now. Only one whose teachings haven't changed can be said to be indefectible. If it is indefectible, the gates of hell will never prevail and she will remain the "spotless Bride of Christ", regardless of the moral status of any individual member.
    Regarding example ofChrits Church and Birth Control:
    This taken from the Catholic Council:
    "It is error to believe that, if the Pope were a reprobate and an evil man and consequently a member of the devil, he has no power over the faithful." Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe, Session VIII, and Hus: Session XV; DNZ:621, 617, 588, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 1: "There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope").
    Reading that, I see that the Popes so called "infallibilty" which is ratified by man (Council of Constance) defies what God commands. It is a mistake to believe that EVEN IF this pope is evil and a reprobate, he is still to have obiedience from the faithful?? (Catholics) That is against evrything God teaches. It is God and God alone that we are to answer to. Also, is this why the Pope has not spoken against the Preists of the Catholic Church that have molested children?
    Vatican Declined to DeFrock US Priest That Abused Boys
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/world/europe/25vatican.html
    Per your own words: If it is indefectible, the gates of hell will never prevail and she will remain the "spotless Bride of Christ", regardless of the moral status of any individual member.
    "regardless of the Moral staus of any individual member" ?? Is that how its justified? That to me is hardly without stain or wrinkle, and tells me even more that it is not the Cathoilc Church that Christ referenced?

    Regarding Baby Baptismre your post, you say: God did not say to the apostles, go out and Baptize all nations, EXCEPT BABIES..so why would a baby have to wait, since it is a gift from God?
    My answer, does not change: Baptism is for the remission of sins, and infants are not capable of sinning or repenting.
    Mark 16:15,16 – All who are baptized, must first have the gospel preached to them. But what good would be done by preaching to a baby?
    (Eph 2:8-9)
    – – "-in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"
    See, John baptised for REPENTANCE, and said that one would come after him, who's shows he was not even worthy to tie. (Jesus) Then, Jesus is Baptised by John,
    The Baptism of Jesus
    Mt. 3.13-17 · Mk. 1.9-11
    21 ¶ Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

    22 and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. Is. 42.1 · Mt. 12.18 ; 17.5 · Mk. 9.7 · Lk. 9.35
    CatholicMom..I do not know how much clearer I can respond to this. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to open your understanding to this, you do not have to take my word for it, although it is what I believe as written in the holy scripture.

    You ask why did I say Baptism is not necesary...I never said that. I said Baptism, by itself, is neither necessary nor sufficient for salvation. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, accepted by us through faith. BAPTISM if for the remission of sin,
    Definition: Baptism is the immersion of a person's whole body in water, in the name (by the authority) of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sins by grace, and to receive the gift or indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
    Mrk 1:4 "John appeared... preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins"
    Acts 2:38 "Repent and be baptized every one of you... for the forgiveness of sins"
    Mrk 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved..."
    Rom 6:3-4 "...buried with him through baptism into death... in the likeness of his death... [and] resurrection"
    Gal 3:26-29 "You are all sons [and heirs] of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ..."
    Next, you said:
    You know that Jesus healed many people just because the person with the Faith in Jesus Christ was requesting the healing for someone else. The person who received the healing did not even know about the request but it was granted by the faith of the one asking.
    In order to respond to this, may I please have scripture to back that up? (ie> for someone else)
    Last, you state:
    Confirmation is a strengthening of the Holy Spirit, giving a zeal to proclaim the Lord to others. It is NOT a replacement of Baptism. This verse is what is misinterpreted by protestants. “Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit; for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit." Because their Baptism had only been in the name of the Lord Jesus, and not in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, they needed the fullness of the Holy Spirit which Confirmation gives.
    Read Ephesian 1:13
    "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation–having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE,"
    The steps to the baptism in the Holy Spirit are 1) listen to the message of truth (the gospel), 2) believe the message (become saved), and 3) then be baptized in the Holy Spirit.
    Right from the word of God, no mis interpet there.

    I will attend to the second of your posts later this evening. God Bless You!

    August 21, 2010 at 11:15 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      The Catholic Church isn't thought of as a "denomination," as one choice among many or a variation on a theme that one "prefers" or doesn't; She is The Church founded by Christ through Peter. Beyond that, She is older than Her 2,000 - two thousand - years; as Israel, She reaches back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. She is both in time and timeless. She's an idea in the mind of God and of which the EARTHLY CHURCH is the manifestation, the becoming visible.

      From your words you show that you do not see the Catholic Church as the dispenser of the Sacraments that Jesus Christ instituted, as being the visible Church that Jesus Christ founded. Here are some guideposts……to help you see that it IS the Catholic Church, not an ecclesial community that is the manifestation of Christ’s visible Church….

      1 Tim 3:15…Church is the pillar and foundation of truth….we know it cannot be us who have a fallen nature with the ability to sin…we sin even when we don’t want to!
      Mt. 28:18-20 ……Jesus delegates all power to Apostles and their successors… the job of Baptizing whole nations could not be done by a few men during their lifetimes….
      Jn 20:23….power to forgive sin…people were amazed that God had given such power to men [not a man].
      1 Cor 11:23-24….power to offer sacrifice [Eurcharist]…persona Christi….in the place of Jesus Christ, a priest forever and our high priest…
      Lk 10:16….whoever hears you, hears me; rejects you, rejects me….did you know you need to HEAR the gospel by someone who has been SENT?; Jesus told His Apostles…I SEND you, as the FATHER has SENT Me. A person cannot send himself….someone has to do the sending…

      We sinners,…., lay persons, priests, the Pope, the Bishops,… ….we are the mystical Body of Christ ….and, we are called the church [small c]. When we speak of the EARTHLY Church [large C] , it is the visible manifestation, the dispenser of Sacraments…from which the graces from these Sacraments are bestowed on the sinners; it is the pillar and foundation of Truth; also the Bride of Christ. These are Truths from the Bible.

      What about Original Sin? Baptism is our being incorporated into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit! One does not become a member of the Body of Christ by saying the sinner’s prayer. [and where is that in the Bible, anyway?] If a baby is Baptized, it is washed of Original Sin and is filled with the Holy Spirit by the faith of its parents or guardians. One can be healed by another’s faith: [Luke 7:1-10] ‘Jesus heals a Centurion’s servant’ because of the Centurion’s faith.

      John the Baptist’s Baptism was an outward sign of repentance and faith but not of grace. The Apostles could not receive the grace of the Sacramental Baptism until the death and resurrection of Jesus. On the evening of that day, the first day of the week [Easter Sunday], the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
      John 20:19-22 This was their Baptism.

      The small c church, you will agree, is known to have sins….thus the devil is prevailing against the [c]hurch in that way. Jesus is not a liar. The Catholic [C]hurch is still standing because of Jesus’ promise. The devil is not prevailing against it. So, you can know that Christ is the spiritual Rock of the Church and He made Peter the earthly Rock of the Church.

      A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ that signifies the grace that it bestows.

      Confirmation is the Sacrament that strengthens the graces received by the Sacrament of Baptism (Confirmation does not bestow the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to a Christian, the Sacrament of Baptism does that). On Pentecost the Apostles received a strengthening of the sanctifying gifts of the Holy Spirit that they already possessed, and they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that is, they received the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit that enabled the Apostles to evangelize the world and build up the Body of Christ.

      Adele, you still have not told me which Church is the Bride of Christ. Remember, it is the one without stain, wrinkle, or any such thing…. REV C H SPURGEON did not give the name in his sermon that you sent, plus, back in the 1800’s there weren’t quite as many as today’s over 30,000 ecclesial communities to choose from. Which do YOU say it is now?

      If you really want to know what Catholics are taught and what we believe, you can easily go on line and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Catholic Encyclopedia, the many sites that carry the imprimatur as being in line with Catholic teaching. When you persist on going to Catholic hate sites you will remain where you are about the Truth of the Catholic Church, in the dark; don’t waste your time reading lies. Why don’t those Catholic hate sites preach Truth to you instead of running down the Church that gave them the Bible? Why don’t they build you up instead of tearing down Truth that you desire instead of trying to make you hate the Church even more? When they run down the Church that Jesus founded they undermine any Truth they may profess! If the Church is so horrible why take anything from it all… not the Bible or the Truth about the Trinity, Eucharist, Immaculate Conception, Incarnation, or anything else….

      August 22, 2010 at 10:05 pm |
  13. Adele

    Your most welcomed.
    I hope so too. As I said, I will respond initially to your 4 posts, then I will go back and answer your responses. Otherwise,lol, we will be here all year,lol.

    August 20, 2010 at 8:58 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      ...What better way to spend the year? Working with God for the salvation of souls is most worthy of our time.....

      August 20, 2010 at 10:44 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      I have copied and pasted our 'conversation' due to the fact that they remove entire comments from time to time. We could always find each other on another comment and continue that way.....what do you think?

      August 21, 2010 at 9:14 am |
  14. Adele

    CatholicMom..Here is an interesting read from a former Catholic Priest
    http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r011.html

    August 20, 2010 at 11:54 am |
    • CatholicMom

      I read his story and felt so sorry for him. I could not figure out why he did not know the Bible throughout all his years of study. It is strenuous and not everyone can do it. He sounded very sad and confused and did so right up to the end of his story.

      He confusingly said born-again faith is enough and it will result in GOOD WORKS including repentance! [ Is faith enough? Yes, born-again faith is enough. That faith, born of God, will result in good works including repentance: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).] What a problem he has, and he is trying to teach others?

      Like I have said, the works are not of our own doing but by the grace of God and for His glory for we can do nothing without Him.
      He is a confused man and he is still leading people off the path….it is sad….
      I would have emailed him but there was no way provided.

      August 20, 2010 at 10:30 pm |
  15. Adele

    Here is the scripture that I back up my belief on. Furthermore, no, I am not saying I am not a sinner. I do not believe the Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ either. That is again, CATHOLIC doctrine. (To say the Catholic Church is the one and only TRUE church, is a fallacy, and there is scripture to prove it also)
    Because Jesus was baptized and then the Holy Spirit came upon Him and due to His placing water before the Holy Spirit in John 3:5, it is reasoned by some, that salvation is the result of baptism. This is faulty biblical reasoning, since we find verses in the Bible such as:
    – – "For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. "
    (Eph 2:8-9)
    – – "-in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"
    (Eph 1:13)
    – – "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."
    (Rom 1:16)
    – – "and that from a babe you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. "
    (2Ti 3:15)
    Scripture proclaims it is 'Faith (belief)' in Jesus Christ, given through God's Grace, that brings salvation.
    My outward "show to the world", is to live as Christ commands, after I was saved. Not some Catholic Church retoric that thinks it is above Jesus Christ. I know all about the Catholic Church, that is why I left it years ago. Nothing but hypocrisy. They do not like you to read the bible, they want you to read only thier Catechism . I know why they don't encourage bible reading, they will be exposed.
    There is no scripture in the bible that says a baby has to be baptised. That also, is from Catholic traditions.
    "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." Mark 7:9

    Baptism, by itself, is neither necessary nor sufficient for salvation. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, accepted by us through faith. There is no component of works. Baptism is an outward and visible sign of that grace, and in the case of infants, a predecessor of faith. Parents are strictly instructed to live a life that becomes the gospel for that child, so that they will in their own time accept the free gift of eternal life for themselves.

    Baptism is for the remission of sins, and infants are not capable of sinning or repenting.
    Mark 16:15,16 – All who are baptized, must first have the gospel preached to them. But what good would be done by preaching to a baby?

    Acts 8:35-39 – Here is an example of confession before baptism. The candidate for baptism must make an understandable statement, so that the one who does the baptizing knows they are baptizing someone who has faith. Babies cannot communicate regarding their faith in any understandable way, therefore it is not Scriptural to baptize them.

    Churches that baptize babies often have a practice called "confirmation." People are baptized as babies, but later when they get old enough to understand and make their own choice about serving God, they are taught and are asked to publicly "confirm" their faith and their desire to live for God. The very existence of such a practice is an admission that the child did not understand, believe, and repent before he was baptized. (Catholics have this also)

    A baby has committed no sin. Matthew 19:14; 18:3 – The kingdom is for those who are like little children. To enter the kingdom, we must be converted and become like little children.
    If children are sinners, would this not mean that we must be converted and become like little sinners?
    Of course not.
    Jesus said to let little children come to Him, some people say this means we should baptize babies so they can come to Him. But Jesus did not baptize the babies who came to Him. They came into His physical presence so He could touch them and pray for them (Matt. 19:13; Mark 10:13-16), not so He could baptize them. They were already acceptable to Him just as they were, without baptism.

    A baby does not need forgiveness because he is not guilty. He is in a safe condition, not accountable for sin until he is old enough to be able to understand and accept the responsibility to obey God. Since baptism is for the remission of sins, and since a baby has no sins, it follows that babies do not need baptism.

    Will deal with the next of your posts later today.

    August 20, 2010 at 11:05 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Adele,

      Yes, I believe in all the verses you list as Truth because they are the Word of God. But as a Catholic I have to believe all of the verses of the whole Bible and not just ones pulled out, with others ignored.

      If the Catholic Church is not the Church that Jesus Christ founded, please, tell me which one is… Eph 5:27…. ‘and to present HER to Himself as a radiant Church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.’ If the Catholic Church is not the Bride of Christ, please, name which one is.

      Here is an example of Christ’s Church: The Catholic Church alone among Christianity can say that we do not bind error; an easy example is birth control – until the 1930's, every Christian church stated that birth control is morally wrong. Since then, all but one have reversed positions. The conclusion is simple – either they taught error then, or they teach error now. Only one whose teachings haven't changed can be said to be indefectible. If it is indefectible, the gates of hell will never prevail and she will remain the "spotless Bride of Christ", regardless of the moral status of any individual member.

      Since Baptism is how the Holy Spirit comes to reside within our souls and is a gift from God, why does a baby have to wait for this gift? God did not say that the Apostles should go out to all the nations and Baptize everyone EXCEPT BABIES.

      For you to say Baptism is not necessary for salvation is extremely painful to hear. Why would Jesus COMMAND the Apostles to go out to EVERY nation and Baptize everyone if it was not crucial? They were only a few men….what an astonishing Command….no trains, planes, etc. but it was COMMANDED…and you say it is not necessary? Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Adele, I cannot believe you have gone so astray….did you forget or did you not know? You know that when Jesus said ‘truly, truly’, or ‘verily, verily’, He meant what He said…it is not a parable.

      You know that Jesus healed many people just because the person with the Faith in Jesus Christ was requesting the healing for someone else. The person who received the healing did not even know about the request but it was granted by the faith of the one asking. This is what parents do….they are the ones with the faith and they ask for the gift of the Holy Spirit for their children in Baptism. Parents are the guardians of the children in their care. Since it is a gift from God no one is excluded because of age or anything else. Yes, Jesus wants the children to come to him…don’t hinder them. Baptism washes away Original Sin and any other sin on one’s soul. A baby only has Original Sin but it is Original Sin that closed the gates of Heaven. Why should a child be hinder? Did you forget about Original Sin?

      Yes, …. Jesus said, "Let the children come to me, and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." This verse means that Heaven belongs to those who have an innocence of heart such as children do towards their parents….and we are to have the same trust and love towards our FATHER, doing His will without fear. If you told your child that he could walk across the street with fast cars flying by and you told him he would be safe because you were watching at the curb…the child would gleefully run right out into the traffic. That is what God wants from us. Total Trust in Him…Heaven belongs to such as these.

      Confirmation is a strengthening of the Holy Spirit, giving a zeal to proclaim the Lord to others. It is NOT a replacement of Baptism. This verse is what is misinterpreted by protestants. “Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit; for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit." Because their Baptism had only been in the name of the Lord Jesus, and not in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, they needed the fullness of the Holy Spirit which Confirmation gives.

      Thank you for answering…
      I hope our posts make it on…..

      August 20, 2010 at 8:32 pm |
  16. Docksider

    Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece

    August 19, 2010 at 8:36 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      This booklet doesn't appear to have the Magisterium behind it......

      August 19, 2010 at 10:44 pm |
  17. Adele

    CatholicMom
    Sorry I tried to respond, but my comment is awaiting moderation. Why, I don't know...nothing but a few lines. A little of my background, and letting you know I would try and read what you wrote and respond accordingly. I do not have time right now to absorb it all, but will try to address the first part later this evening.

    August 19, 2010 at 7:45 pm |
  18. Adele

    CatholicMom
    Thanks for responding. I want to take time to read over your posts, it is alot. Right now I don't have time, but will try to go over at least the first part. later this evening. I will respond accordingly.
    Personally, I left the Catholic Church many years ago.
    As a kid, I never understood some of the things they would throw at a person, like telling us the Cathecism was more important to read then the bible. For years I was afraid to look in the bible because of the fear tactics they used. I saw more unloving attitudes in that church, and that was not what Jesus was suppose to be like, as I knew of him. They were suppose to represent Jesus and love,, they sure did a poor example of it.
    Catholic Church doors was opened to all, but if you were black, you sat in the back of the church. How NOT nice or loving. They knew no discrimination though when the offering plates were passed.

    August 19, 2010 at 7:39 pm |
  19. Adele

    Grant
    As I said, just some thoughts for you to pour over, I didn't know if they were true or not. as I said.
    Personally, I believe back during that time, alot happened due to culture in which they lived . Probably was accepted back then. Lot was not always in Gods favor, that came later.

    August 19, 2010 at 7:24 pm |
  20. Mykelb

    CNN has given Family Research Council president Tony Perkins a forum to write all about President Obama and his supposed attempt to force "the LGBT agenda™" onto Christians. The piece is headlined:

    My Take: President Obama's assault on Americans' first freedom [CNN]

    But here's the thing: Tony Perkins is a man who is on record in more than one sermon saying that gays and progressives are "being held captive by the enemy":

    #1: 2/28/10, Nashville, Tennessee's Grace Chapel Church:
    (click to play audio clip)
    [SOURCE]

    #2: 7/4/10, First Baptist Church of Houston:
    (click to play audio clip)
    [SOURCE]

    So we have to wonder why CNN doesn't just put that as the headline and save us all a lot of time. Because let's be honest: When you are someone who feels that people of a certain scientifically-backed sexual orientation are "being held captive by an enemy," that is what is informing your views! It doesn't matter about this instance or that example or this senator or that presidential proclamation, all of which are spun through far-right talking points and misrepresentations anyway. If the implication is some sort of demonic possession that needs to be freed from the LGBT person's body, then its the "enemy" possession that is the root of the bias and its exorcism (or "ex-gay" therapy) that is the goal. And it ' both the belief and the solution that deserves prominent placement in the anti-LGBT commentary!

    When watching the way the mainstream media treats LGBT issues in the name of equal time, we sometimes feel like we have to escape to an alternate fantasy world. A world where we have to shut off all that we know about and have seen/read/heard from people like Perkins so as to give in to the nature of two-sided debate. But the reality is that we cannot and will not and SHOULD NOT do that! The essential worth of LGBT humans is not an "agree to disagree" situation! The matter of my soul's possession by an enemy is not acceptable fodder for television punditry! And it is not out-of-line or biased for any outlet, from "activist" to "mainstream", to accurately assess the driving forces behind his, her, or "my take

    August 19, 2010 at 12:15 pm |
1 2 3 4 5
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.