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August 23rd, 2010
01:55 PM ET
Religious leaders speak out against International Burn a Quran Day Terry Jones, pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center, stands in front of his church in Gainesville, Florida Response so far to an event billed as a Gathering for Peace, Understanding and Hope has been "overwhelmingly positive," a minister in Gainesville, Florida, told CNN on Monday. The event is planned in response to a local church's International Burn a Quran Day. As part of the Gainesville Interfaith Forum - made up of Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus - Trinity United Methodist Church will host the event September 10, the night before the planned burning of the Quran. "Our hope is that we'll have a thousand people here and there will be 20 people [at the Quran-burning]," Trinity's senior minister Dan Johnson said Monday. Johnson predicted the event would be "multicultural and multifaith." He said he hoped it would inspire a number of people to sign up for the city's interfaith forum. "One member told me after church Sunday that they've never been as proud to be a member of this church as they are now," Johnson said. In a note posted on his church's website last week, Johnson invited all residents of Gainesville to the counterevent. "We feel compelled to raise our voices to proclaim that the action the Dove World Outreach Center is proposing is absolutely wrong and counter to the life and teaching of the Jesus whom we Wednesday, the city of Gainesville denied a burn permit to the center, said Bob Woods, City of Gainesville spokesman. "It was a question of public safety," said Woods. "The Gainesville Fire Department has notified the center through a letter," he said. But that isn't stopping the church. The Gainesville Sun reported that, in an e-mail newsletter sent out Wednesday, the church announced: "City of Gainesville denies burn permit - BUT WE WILL STILL BURN KORANS." Gene Prince, the interim chief of Gainesville Fire Rescue, told the Sun on Wednesday that under the city's fire prevention ordinance, an open burning of books is not allowed. He said if the church goes ahead with its plan, it will be fined. And the church's intentions aren't the issue. "It wouldn't matter what the book is they're burning," Deputy Chief Tim Hayes told the Sun. "We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Dove World Outreach Center Pastor Terry Jones Jones wrote a book titled "Islam is of the Devil," and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase. On the church's website, a section lists "Ten Reasons to Burn a Koran." The Islamic advocacy group Council on American-Islamic Relations called on Muslims and others to host "Share the Quran" dinners to educate the public during the monthlong fast of Ramadan beginning in August. In a news release, the group announced a campaign to give out 100,000 copies of the Quran to local, state and national leaders. "American Muslims and other people of conscience should support positive educational efforts to prevent the spread of Islamophobia," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper in the release. The National Association of Evangelicals, the nation's largest umbrella evangelical group, issued a statement urging the church to cancel the event, warning it could cause worldwide tension between the two religions. "The NAE calls on its members to cultivate relationships of trust and respect with our neighbors of other faiths. God created human beings in his image, and therefore all should be treated with dignity and respect," it said in the statement.
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I don't believe all Catholic priests are child molesters.
I don't believe all Jews greedy.
Hence,
I don't all Muslims are terrorists
Brother, these kofarz can burn our beloved quraan bt dat would nt stop us 4wm been ferm beliverz, it wil make us stronger nd allah swt is great , lets all make dua dat inshallah allah swt gve these kofarz wat they diserv nd make dm burn in da fire of hell. Our religon is a strong nd ferm 1, ntn nt even burnin our holi book wid take dat away 4wm us, we wil always have it in our heart , let us all make dua dat our brother sister remain ferm nd dnt let n e 1 o n e thng stop us 4wm belivn in allah swt nd his beloved rassul s.a.w. Ya allah plz 4 gve us 4 wat we have sind nd make da people of dis world understand much better about our religon. We as muslimz do nt disrespect other religonz nd we acept da same. No matter wat ppl do our quraan wid nt change it wid remain da same as it was 100z of yearz before we nly av 1 testamont nd dat wid nt change. May allah be wid u all my beloved brotherz and sisterz in islam .As salam mu alaikum.
@Keith
One last little
One of the questions which puzzled the ancient Jews was, "How did the sun move through the sky?" The Bible gave them God's answer:
Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the
Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh?
(Deuteronomy 11:30)
Their [the heavens and the firmament] line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to
the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom
coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from
the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat
thereof. (Psalm 19:4-6)
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their
enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven,
and hasted not to go down about a whole day. (Joshua 10:12)
I agree with the Bible that these do indeed refer to the fact that the sun travels through the heavens, not the earth. According to these verses, the sun goes down on the other side of the Jordan, has his own tabernacle (house) in the heavens, and can stand still.
To the early Jews, these verses gave the divine answer as to whether the sun travels around the
earth. They assumed that the sun, like the moon, was the size perceived by the human eye, about
the size of a basketball. Darkness came with a mighty hissing roar as it went down into the
Jordan. They boldly and proudly proclaimed that this marvelous answer proved that the Bible
was indeed the Word of God.
The mistake was based on the erroneous assumption that the earth was flat.
The authors of the Bible did not know that the earth was a sphere which revolved around the sun.
Either the sun moves around the Earth or it doesn't. It is either one way or the other. There can be
no middle ground, no compromise, no evading the issue. If you agree that the sun is
shining on the other side of the earth and thus it does not go into its tabernacle, then you must
also agree with us that the Bible contains scientific errors. It could not have been written/inspired by an all knowing god.
If the bible contains a single error, then why should we have confidence in any of claims?
The bible was written by men, using the knowledge and beliefs of their times.
Jesus and Muhammad both are the messengers of God, what would they think that we who should be friends are quarreling just because of that bloody terrorist Asama Ben Laden? Asama is not a Muslim, he is not protesting against this "Burn Koran Day". But we know the importance of our holy book! I just say stop doing like that... you have no rights to do! OR Shall we burn some Christians along with their books in Pakistan. No... my religion doesn't teaches me to harm even a non-Muslim or animal. Asama is a bloody fool, and Jews are much bloody than him.
Hey people! You know what?... Islam is not the religion of terrorism. You are just doing this because a Muslim Usama had droned on world trade centers. For your kind information I wana tell you Usama is a terrorist according to Islam, and he is not fighting for Islam he is just using the name Muslim, to make us people more down in the world. We Muslims always belive in peace, I hope you people now stop quarreling and please don't fight! DERo protest against Usama. Is Usmam ben Laden is a Muslim then why he like us not protesting against Burn Koran day?
i am more pleased by the actions of the pastor.what he didn't envisage is that his actions would bring mor5e Christians to embrace Islam and accept the teachings of the Holy Quran.I as a Muslim i have no problem with the Bible and i regularly read it
First you read a QURAN !?
Please respect Muslim Holy Book QURAN. It is not right way to protest. Muslim want to peace in the world.
First you read a QURAN !?
Please respect Muslim Holy Book QURAN. It is not right way to protest. Muslim want to peace in the world. Some peoples are making wrong, its dos'n mean every muslim is terrest.
@Keith
This was how the universe appeared to the ancient Israelites who authored the Bible and to most everyone else in ancient times:
The earth appeared to be flat and circular sitting on pillars with a rotating solid sky dome overhead which carried the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars and allowed water to leak through "windows of heaven" or sluice gates to form clouds and rain. God was imagined to live on top of the dome and walk on it.
Some would say that the ends of the earth is not be taken literally and that would be true today, but the phrase is leftover from when people used to really believe the earth had ends, which was the case for the ancient Hebrews and most everyone else at that time.
Another example of flat earth:
The author of Job is saying something is longer than the earth. A flat earth with ends could be compared for length, but longer has no meaning for a spherical earth.
(Job 11:9 NRSV) Its measure is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
The Bible’s solid sky dome:
Here God is imagined to create a solid sky dome that separates the waters into two parts.
One would become the oceans and the other would remain above the solid sky dome to provide an explanation of where water came from to cause clouds and rain in the absence of the knowledge of evaporation.
(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
Here is another verse which mentions the water above the sky dome.
(Psa 148:4 NRSV) Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!
Your bible is written by men. The writings reflect the knowledge and beliefs of the times.
David Johnson, Written by men-inspired by God. Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,...(NKJV) God telling us the earth is a sphere. Took Columbus to finally confirm this. There are things that man has yet to 'discover'. Science is a little slow, but at the end of the day, if science is honest, it only confirms what the Bible already tells us.
@Keith
You said, " Written by men-inspired by God. Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,...(NKJV) God telling us the earth is a sphere. Took Columbus to finally confirm this. There are things that man has yet to 'discover'. Science is a little slow, but at the end of the day, if science is honest, it only confirms what the Bible already tells us."
No dude.
Source: Wikipedia
Belief in a flat Earth is found in mankind's oldest writings, such as the Epic of Gilgamesh. In early Egyptian[8] and Mesopotamian thought the world was portrayed as a flat disk floating in the ocean. A similar model is found in the Homeric account of the 8th century BCE in which "Okeanos, the personified body of water surrounding the circular surface of the earth, is the begetter of all life and possibly all the gods,"[9] which forms the premise for early Greek maps such as those of Anaximander and Hecataeus of Miletus.
The Hebrew Bible carried forward the ancient Middle Eastern cosmology, such as in the Enuma Elish, which described a flat earth with a solid roof, surrounded by water above and below,[10][11] as illustrated by references to the "foundations of the earth" and the "circle of the earth" in the following examples:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." Isaiah 40:22, see also Isaiah 44:24-28;Genesis 1:10,16-18; Psalms 136:7-9; Proverbs 8:27; Luke 4:5.[12]
"For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's; upon them he has set the world." 1 Samuel 2:8; see also Job 38:4-6; Psalm 93:1
This was how the universe appeared to the ancient Israelites who authored the Bible and to most everyone else in ancient times:
The earth appeared to be flat and circular sitting on pillars with a rotating solid sky dome overhead which carried the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars and allowed water to leak through "windows of heaven" or sluice gates to form clouds and rain. God was imagined to live on top of the dome and walk on it.
The above paragraph explains what the circle refers to.
Even if there were no other indicators, the Temptation of Christ story shows whoever wrote the bible believed the earth was flat. If the bible was inspired by god, how did this error occur?
Keith,
Okay, the next time you want to play basketball, I will give you a dinner plate...
Certainly the men who wrote the bible were familiar with spheres. I'm not sure what all fruits they had, but I know they had pomegranates and grapes, which are sort of spherical; and some seeds are spherical. Animals and fish which they butchered would have had spherical eyes... can't think of anymore spheres in nature right, but you get the picture. They must have had a word for that shape.
When you stand on the ground and turn completely around (360 degrees), you would call what you have seen around you a 'circle'. They only knew what they saw. No all-knowing god would have inspired this book.
Keith,
Ok, the next time you want to play basketball, I will give you a dinner plate...
Certainly the men who wrote the Bible were familiar with spheres. I'm not sure what all the kinds of fruit they had were, but I know they had pomegranates and grapes, which are sort of spherical; and some seeds are spherical. Animals and fish which they butchered had spherical eyes... can't think of any more spheres in nature right now, but you get the picture. They must have had a word for that shape.
When you stand on the ground and turn completely around (360 degrees), you would call what you have seen around you a 'circle'. They only knew what they saw. No all-knowing god would have signed off on this book.
Keith,
Ok, the next time you want to play basketball, I will give you a dinner plate...
Certainly the men who wrote the Bible were familiar with spheres. I'm not sure what all fruits they had, but I know they had pom-egra-nates and grapes, which are sort of spherical; and some seeds are spherical. Animals and fish which they butchered had spherical eyes... can't think of any more spheres in nature right now, but you get the picture. They must have had a word for that shape.
When you stand on the ground and turn completely around (360 degrees), you would call what you have seen around you a 'circle'. They only knew what they saw. No all-knowing god would have signed off on this book.
4th, and last, time trying to figure out 'moderation' scheme...
Keith,
Ok, the next time you want to play basketball, I will give you a din-ner plate...
Surely the men who wrote the Bible were familiar with spheres. I'm not sure what all fruits they had, but I know they had pom-egra-nates and grapes, which are sort of spherical; and some seeds are spherical. Animals and fish which they butchered had spherical eyes... can't think of any more spheres in nature right now, but you get the picture. They must have had a word for that shape.
When you stand on the ground and turn completely around (360 degrees), you would call what you have seen around you a 'circle'. They only knew what they saw. No all-knowing god would have signed off on this book.
Keith,
Ok, the next time you want to play basketball, I will give you a dinner plate...
Certainly the men who wrote the Bible were familiar with spheres. I'm not sure what all fruits they had, but I know they had pom-egra-nates and gra-pes, which are sort of spherical; and some seeds are spherical. Animals and fish which they butchered had spherical eyes... can't think of any more spheres in nature right now, but you get the picture. They must have had a word for that shape.
When you stand on the ground and turn completely around (360 degrees), you would call what you have seen around you a 'circle'. They only knew what they saw. No all-knowing god would have signed off on this book.
@Keith
I did not see this posting until today.
You said, "Written by men-inspired by God. Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,...(NKJV) God telling us the earth is a sphere. Took Columbus to finally confirm this. There are things that man has yet to 'discover'. Science is a little slow, but at the end of the day, if science is honest, it only confirms what the Bible already tells us.
Verify is correct as usual. The word for sphere was "dur" meaning ball.
EVANGELICALS now have a commentary on Genesis available which takes the ancient Near Eastern context of Genesis seriously. It is Genesis, The NIV Application Commentary by John H. Walton (past professor of OT at Moody Bible Institute, and now at Wheaton),published by Zondervan, 2001.
Although it is not a technical commentary like Gordon Wenham's, it is a solid scholarly piece of work. 759 pages, nearly half of which deal with Genesis 1-11. Paul Seely, an Evangelical scholar, has even written a paper that was published in the WESTMINSTER REVIEW (an EVANGELICAL college), in which he says the following:
The Geographical Meaning of Earth Seas in Genesis 1:10
by Paul Seely:
"There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe. I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth. This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of. If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "
For as E. J. Young noted, Isaiah 40:22 describes God as seated on the zenith, the highest point directly overhead. Thus the verse implies that earth's dwellers, all mankind according to Psalm 33:13, 14, are clearly visible from a very high point directly overhead. This imagery fits most naturally the conception of the earth below as a flat disc, not a globe. For if the earth were a globe, part of all mankind namely earth's dwellers in Australia, Argentina, South Africa, etc... could not be seen from a point directly overhead. One could force the issue by appealing to God's omniscience, but Isaiah 40:22 (as well as the other verses which mention God looking down) is focused on God's height above the earth; and his seeing all mankind is derived from that height. That phrase "the circle of the earth" in no way implies sphericity is confirmed by the fact that in Egypt this phrase was used to refer to the earth as a flat circular disc. So when interpreted within its historical and biblical context Isaiah 40:22 implies indeed that the earth is circular in shape but also that it is flat.
Whoever wrote the bible, thought the Earth was flat. They were wrong. The bible cannot be the inspired word of god. It is the work of men. It reflects their knowledge and beliefs of the times.
@Keith
I did not see this posting until today.
You said, "Written by men-inspired by God. Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,...(NKJV) God telling us the earth is a sphere. Took Columbus to finally confirm this. There are things that man has yet to 'discover'. Science is a little slow, but at the end of the day, if science is honest, it only confirms what the Bible already tells us.
Verify is correct as usual. The word for sphere was "dur" meaning ball.
EVANGELICALS now have a commentary on Genesis available which takes the ancient Near Eastern context of Genesis seriously. It is Genesis, The NIV Application Commentary by John H. Walton (past professor of OT at Moody Bible Inst itute, and now at Wheaton),published by Zondervan, 2001.
Although it is not a technical commentary like Gordon Wenham's, it is a solid scholarly piece of work. 759 pages, nearly half of which deal with Genesis 1-11. Paul Seely, an Evangelical scholar, has even written a paper that was published in the WESTMINSTER REVIEW (an EVANGELICAL college), in which he says the following:
The Geographical Meaning of Earth Seas in Genesis 1:10
by Paul Seely:
"There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe. I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth. This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of. If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "
For as E. J. Young noted, Isaiah 40:22 describes God as seated on the zenith, the highest point directly overhead. Thus the verse implies that earth's dwellers, all mankind according to Psalm 33:13, 14, are clearly visible from a very high point directly overhead. This imagery fits most naturally the conception of the earth below as a flat disc, not a globe. For if the earth were a globe, part of all mankind namely earth's dwellers in Australia, Argentina, South Africa, etc... could not be seen from a point directly overhead. One could force the issue by appealing to God's omniscience, but Isaiah 40:22 (as well as the other verses which mention God looking down) is focused on God's height above the earth; and his seeing all mankind is derived from that height. That phrase "the circle of the earth" in no way implies sphericity is confirmed by the fact that in Egypt this phrase was used to refer to the earth as a flat circular disc. So when interpreted within its historical and biblical context Isaiah 40:22 implies indeed that the earth is circular in shape but also that it is flat.
Whoever wrote the bible, thought the Earth was flat. They were wrong. The bible cannot be the inspired word of god. It is the work of men. It reflects their knowledge and beliefs of the times.
@Verify
Verify is correct as usual. The word for sphere was "dur" meaning ball.
Cheers, my friend!
You should not muslims are not devils we are in peace
You should not burn the quran because if you do something it's dumb
Burning the quran is a hate crime. People shouldn't critize all Americans because these people who want to burn the holy quran are ignorant extermist, equalvilant to terroist and their attacks. There is no cure for ignorance.. -Proud Muslim- =)
Here is a link for free qurans to burn. Just do a search for free korans and there are a few sites that give these to kafur ONLY. The rich suadi family will send you one at no cost. It takes a couple weeks to get your leather bound qoran. I got mine just in time.
.
http://www.explorethequran.com/request-a-quran.html
Islamic writings teach the use of pretext to initiate hostilities. The Quran devotes a lot of time complaining about people who did not support Mohammad when he first started his religion, with Allah often condemning them to torment in hell in the hereafter.
Mohammad was somewhat pushy and insistent with his religion, and when others felt intruded upon and protested, Mohammad took that to mean they were trying to stop Allah's holy prophet from bringing the revealed word of Allah to the world, so he was justified to fight them and destroy them as Allah's enemies
U wana burn QURAN!...... go ahead but before burning just read it with open heart n mind it will enlighten u n turn your life n u will be protector of this holy book inshallah
DON'T DO THIS OTHERWISE YOU ALL WILL FINISH SOON... (don't even think to do that)
allah will show u...
insha allah...
DON'T DO THIS OTHERWISE U ALL WILL FINISH SOON.... (don't even think about to do that)
allah will show u....
insha allah....
Keith even with todays weapons the ruin of Damascus would be highly unlikely but if Jesus is the Son of God I know that rose from hell then I do not think that it will be much of an issue.
I do though realize that there are much simularities between Christianity, Judism and Islam. The problem is that from what I have seen some of the worst and ugliest fights are usually between family members other than the ones down the street. What I think ticks some folks off is that we are so close that each other in beliefs that we feel that if one another changes just one small aspect of their faith that they would believe as we do.
Basically, it is that in all of the Abrahamic faiths that we look at the other branches and see not a Muslim, a Christian or a Jew. What we see is someone that is just a misinformed member of our branch. So, for example, Bin Laden and crew see the Christians and Jews as Muslims that just are worshipping God in the correct fashion.
@Keith
Sorry for the double post.
I said:
There is no external support for Herod's murder of the children
In Matthew 2:16, Matthew records that Herod ordered the execution of all children under two years of age in Bethlehem. This event is not recorded in secular history. The Jewish historian Josephus, in his book Antiquities of the Jews, has a long history of Herod and his crimes (Antiquities, Book XIV, Chapter VIII and following). The massacre at Bethlehem is not among them.
You said, "Just because you or I can't find secular history to back this doesn't mean it didn't happen."
You were perfectly willing to use secular historians when you were making your "indisputable argument". LOL
Josephus devotes nearly forty chapters to the life of Herod. He narrates with much particularity every important event in his life. He detested this monarch and dwells upon his crimes and errors. Yet Josephus knew nothing of this massacre.
This story is false.
Herod's massacre of the infants of Bethlehem and the escape of Jesus was probably suggested by Kansa's massacre of the infants of Matura and the escape of Krishna Pharaoh's slaughter of the first born in Egypt may also have suggested it.
Yes, read about Mithra and Krishna. They proceeded the Baby Jesus.
@Keith
I said:
There is no external support for Herod's murder of the children
In Matthew 2:16, Matthew records that Herod ordered the execution of all children under two years of age in Bethlehem. This event is not recorded in secular history. The Jewish historian Josephus, in his book Antiquities of the Jews, has a long history of Herod and his crimes (Antiquities, Book XIV, Chapter VIII and following). The massacre at Bethlehem is not among them.
You said, "Just because you or I can't find secular history to back this doesn't mean it didn't happen."
You were perfectly willing to use secular historians when you were making your "indisputable argument". LOL
Josephus devotes nearly forty chapters to the life of Herod. He narrates with much particularity every important event in his life. He detested this monarch and dwells upon his crimes and errors. Yet Josephus knew nothing of this massacre.
This story is false.
Herod's massacre of the infants of Bethlehem and the escape of Jesus was probably suggested by Kansa's massacre of the infants of Matura and the escape of Krishna Pharaoh's slaughter of the first born in Egypt may also have suggested it.
Yes, read about Mithra and Krishna. They proceeded the Baby Jesus.
It sad that you knowingly and willingly twist scripture between literal and non-literal language.
"...which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16
I encourage you seek God with an open heart.