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August 23rd, 2010
01:55 PM ET
Religious leaders speak out against International Burn a Quran Day Terry Jones, pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center, stands in front of his church in Gainesville, Florida Response so far to an event billed as a Gathering for Peace, Understanding and Hope has been "overwhelmingly positive," a minister in Gainesville, Florida, told CNN on Monday. The event is planned in response to a local church's International Burn a Quran Day. As part of the Gainesville Interfaith Forum - made up of Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus - Trinity United Methodist Church will host the event September 10, the night before the planned burning of the Quran. "Our hope is that we'll have a thousand people here and there will be 20 people [at the Quran-burning]," Trinity's senior minister Dan Johnson said Monday. Johnson predicted the event would be "multicultural and multifaith." He said he hoped it would inspire a number of people to sign up for the city's interfaith forum. "One member told me after church Sunday that they've never been as proud to be a member of this church as they are now," Johnson said. In a note posted on his church's website last week, Johnson invited all residents of Gainesville to the counterevent. "We feel compelled to raise our voices to proclaim that the action the Dove World Outreach Center is proposing is absolutely wrong and counter to the life and teaching of the Jesus whom we Wednesday, the city of Gainesville denied a burn permit to the center, said Bob Woods, City of Gainesville spokesman. "It was a question of public safety," said Woods. "The Gainesville Fire Department has notified the center through a letter," he said. But that isn't stopping the church. The Gainesville Sun reported that, in an e-mail newsletter sent out Wednesday, the church announced: "City of Gainesville denies burn permit - BUT WE WILL STILL BURN KORANS." Gene Prince, the interim chief of Gainesville Fire Rescue, told the Sun on Wednesday that under the city's fire prevention ordinance, an open burning of books is not allowed. He said if the church goes ahead with its plan, it will be fined. And the church's intentions aren't the issue. "It wouldn't matter what the book is they're burning," Deputy Chief Tim Hayes told the Sun. "We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Dove World Outreach Center Pastor Terry Jones Jones wrote a book titled "Islam is of the Devil," and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase. On the church's website, a section lists "Ten Reasons to Burn a Koran." The Islamic advocacy group Council on American-Islamic Relations called on Muslims and others to host "Share the Quran" dinners to educate the public during the monthlong fast of Ramadan beginning in August. In a news release, the group announced a campaign to give out 100,000 copies of the Quran to local, state and national leaders. "American Muslims and other people of conscience should support positive educational efforts to prevent the spread of Islamophobia," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper in the release. The National Association of Evangelicals, the nation's largest umbrella evangelical group, issued a statement urging the church to cancel the event, warning it could cause worldwide tension between the two religions. "The NAE calls on its members to cultivate relationships of trust and respect with our neighbors of other faiths. God created human beings in his image, and therefore all should be treated with dignity and respect," it said in the statement.
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Imagine how furious the Christians of this world would be if Muslims started burning the Bible? That is exactly how furious the Muslims of today are. The Qur'an is soooo much more than just a religious book to us. Just because of 9/11, which, by the way was not completely proven to have been done by muslims, which was done by about 10 people, the 1 Billion muslims of the world doesn't have to suffer. Just imagine for one second what your life would be like if the tables were turned and 9/11 took place affecting a muslim country, then the christians of the world would have to suffer due to merely 10, which is, indeed, not fair. By the way, there is enough evidence to prove that 9/11 was merely a planned attack for political gain, to create animosity among the christians toward muslims, which, I am sad to say was successful.
Though they may burn the Qur'an, I kindly request all of my muslim brothers and sisters, please,
Do Not Burn The Bible!!!! As our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has taught us, No matter what happens we should give respect to all other religions, and, indeed, religious books as if it were our own.
Please do not make any hasty decisions, if they really wish to burn our holy book, let them, but this does not mean we should stoop to their level. Peace be upon you.
So the Muslims of 2010 are now the Jews of 1930s Germany, complete with burning books now?
Think about that when you see the next Tea Party loser holding is Obama as Hitler signs. Then ask yourself who do YOU think you should be more afraid of? And if you really can't find the answer, then look what a certain someone wrote a long time ago about intolerance:
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
-Pastor Martin Niemöller, survivor Sachsenhausen and Dachau.
Do what u think in yr evil mind.
But Almighty watching. If u burn Quran U will burn accordingly!
Wait and see!
What will Jesus do?
I know how about BURN BIBLE DAY! the book has been changed by man to suit their greed and in to how they wanted it. Yeah so how about it? i got a better idea how about we just burn every single religious books off the planet because this is just getting ridiculous.
David Johnson, It was the Edison quote wasn't it? Want to know why I believe the Bible? #1 Reason is .....fulfilled Bible prophecy. 500 fulfilled. 500 to go. And when they do it will be quick. Like 7 years quick for most of them. I don't have time to list them all. Every Prophecy of the Bible by John F. Walvoord does a fine job of listing them and indicating whether they are fulfilled or yet to be fulfilled. Go to living waters.com , look at the 101 Last Days Prophecies under "tracts". I'm not a math wiz but the odds of 500 prophecies being literally fulfilled has to be more than hitting the lotto, twice. Saying there's no Creator is like looking at building and saying there was no builder. A painting with no painter. "In the begining there was nothing...then it exploded."
Where is all the proof if you know so much please indulge me , all you are is ignorant can you actually first study it before judging it , seriously really have you even read the Quran I'm not even Muslim at all I'm catholic. And all your doing is bringing conflicts towards people all over the world even Americans who turn from Christianity to Islam or Catholics and so on , it's not only arabics that follow the religion it's also people that are your own race !
@Usama Ata – Nice try. We will not be fooled. The Quran counsels the use of deceit when dealing with non-Muslims.
@Usama Ata – Nice try. We will not be fooled. The Quran counsels the use of deceit when dealing with non-Muslims. Mohammad instructed one of his followers to lie if he had to (in order to assassinate one of Mohammad's enemies). This set a precedent, and the principle was clear: If it helps Islam, it's okay to deceive non-Muslims.
You can't leave Islam once you're in. This is an interesting one. It is actually illegal in Islamic states to convert out of Islam. This is a critical part of Shari'a law. Someone who has rejected Islam who was once a Muslim is an "apostate." This is a crime and a sin, and the punishment for it is death (and eternal damnation in hell thereafter).
Obviously, you can see why this idea has been included in the collection, but this one has actually caused Islam a problem because those who are following Islam to the letter consider more "moderate" Muslims (those who want to ignore or alter the more violent passages of the Quran) to be apostates. Since the punishment for apostates is death, fundamentalist Muslims are fighting modernizing Muslims all over the world, and keeping many rebellious, modernizing Muslims from speaking up for fear of death.
Every time a group of Muslims decides that maybe Islam should be updated for the 21st century and maybe women should have some rights and maybe the government should be more democratic, the devout Muslims call them apostates and try to kill them.
In this and in many other ways, Islam protects its own fidelity (in other words, the original idea-collection cannot be altered).
Another idea in Shari'a law says it's against the law for anyone to try to convert a Muslim to another religion.
Or you could read
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&pagename=Zone-English-Living_Shariah/LSELayout&cid=1178724000686
Just sayin'
@David Johnson
What's this? Are you teasing the fundies again? You need to realize that your "evidence" is nothing more than words posted in a blog!
Would you toss those dam statistics without proof, already?
Talking and posting does not suddenly turn your words into "evidence".
That guy made some very good points, but you are a "fundie" yourself, IMO.
You can't prove that a "god-like" being does not exist! You CAN'T DO IT!
Would you get that through your incredibly thick skull? You can't use your "there is no god" line honestly because there is a very distinct and scientific possibility that something "god-like" could actually exist in some extra-dimensional form.
However improbable it might seem, the possibility cannot honestly be ruled out.
I won't go into details or list all the possibilities, but they exist as possibilities because our scientific knowledge is extremely limited. Extremely limited. Theoretical physics and cosmology are some of my hobbies.
Let me tell you, some of the stuff scientists are studying are mind-boggling. I cannot follow it all, there's so much of it.
Yet for all that, the humongous gaps in science remain. I like to spot those holes and blind assumptions in physics. There's a lot of 'em.
And then David Johnson comes along with his statistics. On a blog! An anonymous blog!
Why don't you pretend you're the damned Pope while you're at it? Or a doctor like that other bloke?
On an anonymous blog, you have nothing but the words and no way to prove anything.
With fundies, (I used to be one), blanking out the truth is very easy and literally required to function "normally."
I want your posts to kick major ass, but this "there is no god" thing is a religion with you. Will you listen and not turn away?
@PeaceMan
I think the most important part of your rant is:
With fundies, (I used to be one), blanking out the truth is very easy and literally required to function "normally."
I think there is still some Christian fundie left in you. LOL
You said, "Would you toss those dam statistics without proof, already?"
Statistics is the formal science of making effective use of numerical data relating to groups of individuals or experiments.
The only statistics I have used, are the ones for the prison population. The stats were used, to see if the accusation that atheists lack morals, was valid. These statistics have been used by at least two authors in other books I have. They were used for the same purpose. It is a valid metric. I also listed my source for the statistics.
You said, "You can't prove that a "god-like" being does not exist! You CAN'T DO IT!"
I don't have to. I know you can't prove a negative. The fellow is making the extraordinary claim. He has the burden of proof.
Example: I tell you I have fairies living in my left shoe. You can't prove I don't. But, you can demand extraordinary proof from me, because I am making the extraordinary claim. If I can't prove it, I should not be claiming it. Especially, if I am telling people they are going to burn forever.
Originally the fellow had given me "indisputable proof" (his words) that Jesus actually existed. The fellow cited Thalllus, the Jewish Talmud, and Tacitus as sources of information about Jesus. He also used the evidence of design argument as evidence for god. I refuted his arguments. His indisputable proof, turned out to be quite disputable.
After refuting his proof, I informed him the only evidence he had for Jesus, was the New Testament. And that the New Testament contains errors. You can follow that entire conversation here: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/20/opinion-burn-quran-day-an-outrage-to-muslims/
The conversation you are following on this page is about whether the New Testament contains any errors.
You said, "You need to realize that your "evidence" is nothing more than words posted in a blog!"
I have listed a number of bible passages that indicate the writers of the bible believed the earth was flat. Each of these passages can be looked up. They are more than words. They are evidence.
I cited several articles from wikipedia. I gave the source when quoting.
You said, "Would you get that through your incredibly thick skull? You can't use your "there is no god" line honestly because there is a very distinct and scientific possibility that something "god-like" could actually exist in some extra-dimensional form."
The Flying Spaghetti Monster, leprechauns, and winged horses may also exist in some extra-dimensional form. When you find one, I will believe. Until then I will insist these do not exist. You would have no problem if I said,"leprechauns do not exist". It's just because I am ruffling your fundie feathers.
You said, "However improbable it might seem, the possibility cannot honestly be ruled out."
The possibility of anything, can't be 100% ruled out. There is a tiny chance that anything is possible.
But, we do rule things out. We weigh the evidence and decide the chances are negligible.
You said, "Yet for all that, the humongous gaps in science remain. I like to spot those holes and blind assumptions in physics. There's a lot of 'em."
And then you sit smuggly and know there is a god? Yep, you are a fundie. I sort of thought so the other day. Good to see my fundie detector is working. LOL
There is a lot science does not know. But the list grows smaller all the time. Once, we gave god the credit for rain, the rumbling mountain, earthquakes, births etc. This is called God of the Gaps, because god is used to fill in the gaps in man's knowledge.
Just because man doesn't know how to explain a thing, does not mean god did it. Science is advancing all the time. The gaps that god fills gets smaller. In time, I think he will be out of a job. Good thing he has those carpentry skills as a back up.
You said, "On an anonymous blog, you have nothing but the words and no way to prove anything."
You certainly can. Look up the bible passages I have listed. Read the Wikipedia articles I have referenced.
But remember: It is the fundies who are making the claim. It is the fundie who must supply the evidence.
You said, "I want your posts to kick major ass, but this "there is no god" thing is a religion with you. Will you listen and not turn away?"
Do this my fundie friend: Pray to your god. Ask him to give you the finest argument possible for His existence. Then, come back and impress me. Amaze me! Amuse me. Cheers!
And then David Johnson comes along with his statistics. On a blog! An anonymous blog!
Why don't you pretend you're the damned Pope while you're at it? Or a doctor like that other bloke?
On an anonymous blog, you have nothing but the words and no way to prove anything.
I want your posts to kick major ass, but this "there is no god" thing is a religion with you. Will you listen and not turn away?
Atheistic Communist regimes have slaughtered 100 milliion people. Hooray for the atheists!
@Keith
I did not see this posting until today. I'm sure these people don't know what they are talking about either. LOL
You said, "Written by men-inspired by God. Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,...(NKJV) God telling us the earth is a sphere. Took Columbus to finally confirm this. There are things that man has yet to 'discover'. Science is a little slow, but at the end of the day, if science is honest, it only confirms what the Bible already tells us.
Verify is correct as usual. The word for sphere was "dur" meaning ball.
EVANGELICALS now have a commentary on Genesis available which takes the ancient Near Eastern context of Genesis seriously. It is Genesis, The NIV Application Commentary by John H. Walton (past professor of OT at Moody Bible Inst itute, and now at Wheaton),published by Zondervan, 2001.
Although it is not a technical commentary like Gordon Wenham's, it is a solid scholarly piece of work. 759 pages, nearly half of which deal with Genesis 1-11. Paul Seely, an Evangelical scholar, has even written a paper that was published in the WESTMINSTER REVIEW (an EVANGELICAL college), in which he says the following:
The Geographical Meaning of Earth Seas in Genesis 1:10
by Paul Seely:
"There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe. I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth. This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of. If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "
For as E. J. Young noted, Isaiah 40:22 describes God as seated on the zenith, the highest point directly overhead. Thus the verse implies that earth's dwellers, all mankind according to Psalm 33:13, 14, are clearly visible from a very high point directly overhead. This imagery fits most naturally the conception of the earth below as a flat disc, not a globe. For if the earth were a globe, part of all mankind namely earth's dwellers in Australia, Argentina, South Africa, etc... could not be seen from a point directly overhead. One could force the issue by appealing to God's omniscience, but Isaiah 40:22 (as well as the other verses which mention God looking down) is focused on God's height above the earth; and his seeing all mankind is derived from that height. That phrase "the circle of the earth" in no way implies sphericity is confirmed by the fact that in Egypt this phrase was used to refer to the earth as a flat circular disc. So when interpreted within its historical and biblical context Isaiah 40:22 implies indeed that the earth is circular in shape but also that it is flat.
Whoever wrote the bible, thought the Earth was flat. They were wrong. The bible cannot be the inspired word of god. It is the work of men. It reflects their knowledge and beliefs of the times.
Guys, I am 13 years old and from all the people i met i have a lot of christian friends i live in egypt but i have american passport i saw both religions really i heared from both people and that's what i learn.
And i totaly agree with tammyB.
TammyB:
I think, in my humble opinion, that if more people understood and believed what you just wrote, we all probably wouldn't have a problem getting along. However, most organized religions are not going to want their members to be so tolerant of another religion, no matter how similar, or even encourage understanding of another's religion. It's sad, but humans can be horribly ignorant, especially when it becomes to thier belief systems and organized religion.
@ Youssof...Well, I was just responding to what you said, but thank you for your kind words. You are brave blogging amongst probably much older people than you, but not necessarily wiser! Hope you keep your belief strong! Peace to you!
@TammyB- There is your recruit for a s*ic*de b0mber. Good Job
David Johnson, You have a problem with the issue of the Creation. You are like a transmission that is stuck in nuetral. You can't advance forward until you settle that issue. Yes, it takes Faith. "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." Heb 11:6 If you seek Him, you will find Him. That is a promise in the Bible. Just remember, there is a terrible consequence for rejecting such an awesome free gift. I wish you Godspeed on your quest.
Stupid ppl only do these things..........
hmmm.... i tried to read all the comments but it hurts my eyes, and my brain. yes you have the right to burn what you want if you own it,but these people are burning it out of hate for another religion, not to practice their rights. some Muslims came to america to be able to practice their religion and have humane rights, but ended up being despised by ignorant bigots because some dudes who happened to be Muslim did something horrible. that doesn't mean they're all terrorists, and they don't deserve to be discriminated against. destroying someones holy text is a despicable thing to do no mater what. i hope we can realize why this country was made so we can all live a peaceful life in religious freedom.
That was for Eric G.
@Keith
On Jesus predicting his own return:
Jesus Predicted a First-Century Return Copyright © 2008 by Michael A. Fenemore Revised: 2008 Oct 20 P a g e1
Jesus did not know the “day and hour” of his return (Matt. 24:36). However, he knew it would take place before his generation had expired. This clearly precludes a delay spanning two millennia or even a single century.
Matt. 10:23 Jesus instructed his disciples to hurry because the time for preaching before his return was relatively short:
…whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. (Matt. 10:23, NASB throughout unless otherwise noted.) This emphatic statement leaves no room for an enormous delay. It would certainly not have taken thousands of years to reach the cities of Israel. Moreover, most of those cities were destroyed by
A.D. 70. So Christ‟s return must have occurred by that time.
Jesus knew the approximate time of his return and the judgment. He guaranteed they would occur within the lifetime of his contemporaries:
27“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, andWILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.28“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”(Matt. 16:27-28)1
Responding to questions regarding signs to precede the destruction of the temple (Matt. 24:3), Jesus emphatically declared the entire Olivet Prophecy would be fulfilled before his generation had passed:
33…whenyo u see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.34Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matt. 24:33-34)
The very disciples to whom Jesus was speaking would see “all these things.” They were to regard them as signs that Jesus was “right at the door.”T he temple was destroyed inA.D. 70. Therefore, the rest of “these things” must have taken place about the same time. They included the preaching of the gospel to “the whole world” (v. 14), “the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION” (v. 15), “the SON OFMAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY” (v. 30), and the gathering of the “elect” (v. 31). Luke 21:22, 28, 31 Luke‟s account of the Olivet Discourse reveals that all Old Testament prophecy was to be fulfilled about the time of the temple‟s destruction. The resurrection, rapture, and arrival of the kingdom of God were predicted to coincide with that catastrophe:
…these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. (Luke 21:22);…when these thingsb eg in to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. (v. 28);…when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. (v. 31) Rev. 1:3; 22:10 “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” (Rev. 1:1) promised the persecuted first-century Christians that the fulfillment of the events described therein was “near”: …the time is near (Rev. 1:3); Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. (ch. 22:10)
Conclusion Clearly, Jesus did predict a first-century return. This is an error.
David, I've explained some of these already, like the one guy said, 'you have an incredibly thick skull', so here we go, AGAIN. Matt 16:28 ..."will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" refers to the Transfiguration which took place immediately afterward. Matt 24:33 "all these things" refer to the Great Tribulation, which is 3 1/2 years long, followed by Christ's 2nd coming. Jesus did not predict a 1st century return. You are the one who is in error. Again.
@Keith
You said, "David, I've explained some of these already, like the one guy said, 'you have an incredibly thick skull', so here we go, AGAIN. Matt 16:28 ..."will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" refers to the Transfiguration which took place immediately afterward. Matt 24:33 "all these things" refer to the Great Tribulation, which is 3 1/2 years long, followed by Christ's 2nd coming. Jesus did not predict a 1st century return. You are the one who is in error. Again."
That's just fundie talk. Jesus predicted a 1st century return.
We done seen the last of the baby Jesus, if he ever actually existed.
@Keith
Concerning all that 1948 Jesus is coming trash talk:
December 31, 1981 CE – Speaking of tedious, best-selling paranoia peddler Hal Lindsey declared in his book, “The Late, Great Planet Earth” that the Rapture would be forthcoming no later than 1981. Like many other neurotic doom junkies of the day, Hal was stuck on the year 1948 as the moment the apocalypse clock got ticking. Since the End would have to come within a generation of that date and pop-wisdom said a generation was forty years, it would have to be scheduled for 1988. Now, since there would first need to be seven years of Trib time, and before any nasty Tribulation stuff could go down, all the good little Christians would have to go up, that clearly put the Great Up-Sucking at 1981
The failure of Lindsey’s predictions to come anywhere near the neighborhood of true has never slowed him down in the least. He just dropped all reference to the Jupiter Effect, now refers to a generation as being anywhere between 40 and 100 years and keeps on making the same tired claims over and over, repositioning the target date as needed.
2000 CE – In Hal Lindsey’s literary doom-wallow, “Planet Earth – 2000″, he pegged the big 2-triple-0 as the target date for the battle of Armageddon… Though, since that pooped out per all his earlier pip-squealings, he has contingency dates going all the way up to 2048. At which point, barring cryogenic freezing or personal resurrection, he should be safely dead and impervious to the gales of skeptical laughter that will follow. – Source – John Mark Ministries – By Rowland Croucher and others.
Here are some other predictions.
Forty-Four End-of-the-World Prophecies——That Failed
http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/appendix3.html
Its been 2,000 years and counting. Jesus is dead, if he ever existed.
I would like to Invite you all who have organise to burn The nobal holy book of GOD "ALLAH" to read the QURAN once at least with love and respect and I would also like to invite you to belive in ALLAH only as GOD and Prophet MUHAMMAD [Peace and blassing of Allah be upon him] as his last and final prophet. Before you commit the DEVIL act of burning of Holy Quran REMEMBER you will have to face ALLAH on the day of Judsement and that time you will not have any oportunity to correct your mistakes so please STOP your devil act today otherwise get ready for deffinet punishment after you die and you never know you may get GOD's [ALLAH] punishment before you die too.
One more thing I would like to say there is no space of TERRORISM or VIOLENCE in ISLAM we respect all the other religious books and prophets with true heart.We Muslims Love ALLAH and his Prophet Muhammad [peace and blassing of Allah be upon him] and his Nobel book QURAN more than everything exist, so If someone try to disrespect them no Single muslim on the earth will remain quite. we muslime do not want any violance but your this DEVIL ACT is open invitation to break the peace of the world. let everyone live in peace by cancelling the DEVIL act of burning Holy QURAN.
May ALLAH guide you all to the right path.