August 25th, 2010
03:49 PM ET
Taxi driver stabbed after passenger asks if he's Muslim
A taxi driver is in stable condition Wednesday after allegedly being stabbed by a passenger who apparently asked if he was Muslim before attacking him, a taxi driver union official told CNN.
Police have identified the suspect as Michael Enright, a 21-year-old white male. New York Police Det. Mark Nell said Enright has been charged with four counts, including attempted murder and hate crimes charges, and he's expected to be arraigned Wednesday afternoon.
Bhairavi Desai, executive director of the New York Taxi Workers Alliance, said the cabbie who was attacked is Ahmed H. Sharif, 43, a practicing Muslim.
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Look, your god can't even make up his mind:
The author of Numbers says God does not change his mind. The prophet Jeremiah says he does.
(Num 23:19 NRSV) God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal, that he should change his mind.
Has he promised, and will he not do it? Has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
(Jer 26:19 NRSV) …and did not the LORD change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? …
Written by men I tells you! Inspired by none.
Look at these problems: How come your all knowing god didn't catch these?
Insects with four feet?
"Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you."
Just for the record, insects have six feet and arachnids have eight.
Bats identified as "birds"?
"And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, and the vulture, and the kite after his kind; Every raven after his kind; and the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, and the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, and the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat."
An almost identical passage occurs in Deuteronomy 14:11-18. The bat is of course a flying mammal, not a bird.
Rabbits claimed to chew their cud?
"And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you."
To chew the cud means to eat grasses, swallow, then regurgitate later for further chewing. Rabbits simply do not do this.
There be errors in this here book!!! But it is inspired by god...Never mind! LOL
1.A state of reduced or suspended sensibility.
2.A state of mental numbness, as that resulting from shock; a daze
The train-wrecked Islam has been in a stupor-state for 1400 years.
This guys' one drunken night, and a deep stupid fear within him are now leading to his certain imprisonment for a hate crime, which it was. Nobody will learn from this, I fear. I think, unfortunately, we'll see more of this, but I truly hope I'm wrong about that.
I hope so, too. I believe otherwise, but I do hope so.
Don't you just hate it when you can see a train wreck coming and there's nothing you can do to stop it?
The Tea Party and people like Newt Gingrich had to know this was coming. You can only marginalize and demonize a group so long before it becomes acceptable, tacitly or otherwise, to attack them. This guy, Adolph, had a similar political strategy about 80 years ago...got him in office. Of course, Newt, as a historian, undoubtedly knows that.
THE TABLES HAVE BEEN TURNED
I think the key point is that the guy (according to another article) was drunk out of his mind. By that point alone it is clear that he doesn't represent civilized Jews or Christians... he represents drunken idiots... but also represents how idiots can be influenced by the charged Right wing rhetoric that's going around and how an innocent father can be hurt because of it.
what, exactly, IS a 'civilized' christian??
Nobody knows but Jeeesuuuss!
Ed, I would also add that alcohol doesn't implant attitudes into a psyche but it does make their expression much, much easier. All the same, this crime is no more related to his religion than his brand of shoes. I agree completely however that the far right's banging of the drumhead is beginning to produce results...the worst kind of results.
It was nobody's business what religion the driver was practicing. Being stabbed for honestly answering a nosy maniac's question is adding injury to insult.
With so many people in NYC, this sort of thing happens too often. People living that close together must work harder to overcome their reactions to other people's personal foibles.
At the end of my post above, I forgot to add at the end: "than people living far apart."
Someone stabbing you is quite the little foible to ignore...
No kidding. Psychological pressure is what makes the madness go around.
i just wonder if he waited til after the ride was over to do it
please check out http://www.islamicsolutions.com/do-they-even-know-what-islam-is/
How to end all the religious terror, horror and bigotry right now, forever more!!!
Muslims should burn their copies of the koran for the 1400 year old con job that is pulled on them daily by the imams and ayatollahs. Christians should burn their copies of the NT for the 2000 year old con job that has been perpetuated on them by popes, bishops, priests, ministers and evangelicals. And Jews should burn their copies of the OT/Torah for the 6000 year old con job pulled on them by their past and current rabbis.
Even as an atheist I wouldn't want the Bible or the Qur'an burned any more than I would want the Illiad or the Epic of Gilgamesh destroyed. These books had a profound role to play in shaping our culture and civilization, and only a fool would deny that. My issue with them is their continued use as a source of absolute fact when it is obvious that they contain myth, allegory, metaphor and fiction; and their use as a source of moral standard when they were clearly written to meet the specific needs of particular peoples living long, long ago.
I find it odd that you are the most ardent atheist I have ever come across on internet, and yet you are the least convincing.
Just food for thought: A nod ilicits a nod, a smile inoculates a smile. To lead, you walk your way with joy and invite without a turn or a frown.
To whom are you referring, Reality or I?
No one smiles after reading the following list of koranic-driven horror and terror:
1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured
1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh
2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured
3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat, 97,172 – 106,047 Iraqi civilians killed as of 8/10/2010.
4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.
5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.
6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.
7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.
8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.
9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.
10) Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops killed in action 1,116 killed in action, 902killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians have perished to the horrorific actions of the koranic-driven Taliban.
11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.
12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.
13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,
14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.
15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.
add all 15 of the above and the death count is not even equal to one day of dead in Europe circa 1945! Add all 15 of the above and do it again and again for hundreds of years, and i mean HUNDREDS OF YEARS, and then and only then, will the tally add up to World War Two back in 1935-1945. Food for thought!
@NL You did not make it clear that you are an atheist, so I did not realize there would be confusion. I was talking to "reality"
@Reality A drumbeat of war does not lead to peace. Also, one of my responses is awaiting moderation. I will excerpt here:
In case you missed the forest for the trees (not possible with you right?), I am saying the best way to beat brainwashing is is to give the brainwashed person a non confrontational safe haven and then reason with them over time.
Unless you want to break programming by reprogramming, then you break someone's will by alternating extremely harsh treatment with extremely gentle. It's how wife abusers do it. I have had to help a couple of women out of that cycle, so I know how deep irrational programming can go.
If you believe in atheism as a rational paradigm rather than a religion, don't use such weak and antithetical emotional ploys. It will only turn away converts to your cause.
A summary of our 70 year War on Terror:
Operation Iraqi Freedom- The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat, 97,172 – 106,047 Iraqi civilians killed as of 8/10/2010 mostly by Shiite or Sunni suicide bombers
– Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror,
– Sa-dd-am, his sons and major he-nchmen have been deleted. Sa-dd-am's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes. Kuwait was saved.
– Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)
– Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “cra-zies” as they have thre-atened Libya. OBL sure is a di-sgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???
– North Korea is still u-ncivil but is contained.
– Northern Ireland is finally at peace.
– The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “squ-are one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!
– Bin La-d-en has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.
– Fa-na–tical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
– Timothy McVeigh was exe-cuted. Terry Nichols will follow soon.
– Eric Ru-dolph is spending three life terms in pri-son with no par-ole.
– Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.
– Islamic Sudan, Dar-fur and So-malia are still terror hot spots.
– The terror and tor-ture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Ra-dovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war – charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.
– And of course the bloody terror brought about the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.
Obviously this guy wasnt a Christian. If he was, he wouldn done such a senseless act. Christians do not commit acts of hatred. Period.
You said, "Obviously this guy wasnt a Christian. If he was, he wouldn done such a senseless act. Christians do not commit acts of hatred. Period."
Hmm...so that fellow that shot the doctor, while the doctor was attending church, wasn't a christian? Lots of catholics and fundies thought he was a hero, for shooting a doctor who performed abortions. Did they also give up their Christian membership cards because they condoned the act of hatred?
So, the moment you do something horrible, you cease to be a Christian. So, Christians can't commit acts of violence. That's a neat trick. Cheers!
It's the "No true Scotsman" argument. Ideology is defined by how it is actually practiced, not what the idealized, general definition found in children's books says it is. Every ideology has purists and radicals both in minority at opposite ends, and a majority of average, moderate adherents lumped in the middle. The vast majority of Christians wouldn't dream of attacking someone like this just as the vast majority of Muslims wouldn't dream of putting on a suicide vest. These are extremists, and I think we should consider them as rare as the true "saints" of any religion.
I think religion just brings out the crazy in people.
pffffffff thanks for the joke dude.
EXACTLY!!! And Scripture backs it up.
"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him." -1 John 3:14-15
"If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen." -1 John 4:20
Anything that you become fanatical about brings out the crazy in people, and some folks love Jesus more than a tween girl loves Justin Bieber, or an English fan loves their football team. Taking religion in moderation just tones down the believer's response. It does nothing to make it based on anything less false.
Scripture backs it up, and you trust scripture to be true. You trust scripture, well... because scripture tells you to trust it, and you trust scripture well... because scripture tells you to trust it, and you trust scripture, well... because scripture tells you to trust it, and you trust scripture, well...
See the pattern? Now, would you trust any other thing based solely on it's own claim to be trustworthy? When you get right down to it, the only real reason why anybody believes in Judaism, Christianity or Islam is because they trust their scriptures to be the authentic word of God, and they trust it because it tells them to, ... because it says it's the authentic word of God,... and so on. Hardly logical, and not a standard of trust most people would apply to anything else, right?
Yes, I can't disagree with you. Thanks!
What we all – especially the believers- often forget is that religion is meant to be a code of conduct. A way for us to stay grounded in our own humanity and that of the people around us. We forget that all religions preach that we respect our differences and celebrate or similarities. Instead we live in a world where we crave each other's blood. I would like to ask the stabber if the bible condones killing people of other faiths. I ask the same question to the terrorists who call them selves muslims. What we have made of religion today is so far from what its intent is, that we end up driving belivers away. No religion preaches superiority over others. I am a muslim and I encourage people to read the quran and verify for themselves what it says- much like I read the bible. Religion is not meant to be inherited. It is a concsious acceptance of a way of life and of a code of conduct. All religions are bound by that same code. yet we make divisions. We spend hours and years earning our various degrees, in order to chase professions that we will grow in for the rest of our lives. Yet we readily accept religion as a fact handed down by our families. READ, LEARN and UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER before you hate. You will not find too many differences...
Christian terrorist attacked innocent American. No more white people allowed to be near cabs, or in new york or new muslims.
Pretty soon, white people won't be able to get a cab...
My heart goes out to the poor cabbie. He was minding his own business. He was doing his job. Don't cabbies have enough to worry about? I hope he remembers there are many, many people who have cared for him too. The world isn't all crazies.
Conservatives are celebrating this news – their rhetoric of hate continues to bear fruit. Of course, they can't say that openly – got to follow the rules of the GOP Playbook:
1. Use apocalyptic rhetoric that exacerbates fear, bigotry and extremism among the uneducated, intolerant and desperate.
2. Counter any liberal criticism of your inflammatory calls for action by saying they can't take a joke.
3. Keep turning up the heat and act surprised when somebody finally heeds your calls for extreme action.
4. Be sure to maintain you were only speaking figuratively and you are being unfairly blamed when violence occurs.
5. Keep your celebrations behind closed doors.
Dave, how about commenting about the high crime of non-christians?
I saw in your last post you up your athiest in jail percentage from 1% to 16% to bad cnn keep blocking my full comment.
You need to read the comment again. You just don't understand it.
This site is awful sometimes. Look up ^
David Johnson, and anyone else who's interested, I refuted your four errors in the Bible. Hope this was helpful for you. It's under 'burn a quran sparks outrage' article. Happy trails.
Here is a copy of my prison comment.
Christians (all Protestant sects, Catholics, Mormons, JWs et al) represent between 78% and 83% of the US population. The atheist population is estimated between 8% and 16%.
According t the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Christians represent 83.8% of all convicts in prison, while atheists make up only 0.21% of the prison population.
Christians make up a disproportionately larger number of convicts to the total Christian population of the US (84% convicts to 80%+ of US population) while atheist convicts make up a disproportionately smaller number to the US atheist population (.02% convicts to 8% – 16% US atheist population. – Source – http//www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
It is a dramatic difference in the frequency of criminality between believers and non-believers.
Using proportions in this manner is the correct way to make a comparison.
The 16% you speak of, is the upper range for % of atheist in US population. The range is actually 8% to 16%.
The % of atheists in prison is .21%, which is < 1%.
As far as I know, the religion of the inmate was as of the time of the crime for which they are serving time.
This is meant as a simple metric only. Don't get hung up on the numbers being absolute. If atheists were the immoral beasts fundies accuse them of being, you would expect to see the atheist prison population % exceed the US atheist population %. That is the point.
I think you pointed out that the numbers would not be correct because some criminals are not caught. This would be a valid point, only if you could convince me, that only atheist get away with crimes.
Mike, I don't want to be mean to you, but I don't like debating with you. I won't respond to further posts. Thanks!
I responded to you in the "Religious leaders speak out against International Burn a Quran Day"
You refuted nothing.
David Johnson, You are correct when you say I refuted nothing as that is what what your 'errors' are-nothing.
You're both wrong.
Sorry, just had to say it 😛
Anyone that wants can go to "Religious leaders speak out against International Burn a Quran Day" certainly can. They can read our respective comments. I am trying not to be a smart a**. My point was made. The New Testament contains errors.
Even Eric G explained you have no evidence for your claims. Sorry dude.
David Johnson, So who's EricG? The wizzard of oz? 0 x 0 = 0.
No amount of evidence, no opinion from anyone will make you admit you are wrong. That's okay. I told you, I comment not to change the fundies, but to show onlookers the folly of their beliefs.
I think you fundies should form a search party to look for baby Jesus. Maybe put his face on a milk carton, with the caption: "Have you seen this savior?" Jesus predicted he would be back in the 1st century. I'm getting worried. He didn't feel well when he left. Darn I loves me some the fundies!!
David Johnson, 2Peter 3:3,4 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the begining of creation." (NKJV) Are you trying to fulfill prophecy?
Statisticians estimate it would take christians 300 years to kill as many people as a small bad of atheists did between just 10 years from 1935-1945. Given the primitive nature of Muslim violence, statisticians also estimate it would take Moslems 5,000 years to commit the same number of murders.
I am of course talking about the famous atheist Hitler and his band of nazi cohorts! So when an atheist shows up moralizing atheism, I always point out that christians and muslims still have hundreds of years to go before we can catch up to your death and destruction from 1945. You atheists will ofcourse have to behave like angels for the same hundreds of years in order to make up for what your grandparents did not that long ago.
so when you start showing off about how good you are, thats heartening news for christians and muslims! it gives us time to catch up to your murdering thieving selves!
David Johnson, You say, 'to show onlookers the folly of their beliefs'. Sounds to me like your the one covering your ears saying, "IS NOT! IS NOT!". You also made mention of people making up a god to 'fill the gaps' so to speak. Romans 1:20,21 says, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened." In other words, God has placed eternity in the hearts of men and given all people everywhere an awareness of Him so they are without excuse. That is why when explorers 'discover' a tribe of people, they would be worshiping some form of a God. Throughout history, all cultures acknowledge the existence of God. David, you have this knowledge written on your heart too. But if you continue to reject it outright, then your conscience gets 'seared with a hot iron'. When that happens, you stop hearing when God is trying to whisper to you. As far as me threatening you with hellfire, I simply am trying to warn a fellow man of danger. If there were a building with a natural gas leak that was taped off with DANGER DO NOT CROSS THIS LINE tape, and your came walking along with a lit cigarette in your mouth, and cut the tape and began walking in; then I, having concern for your safety would would shout out that "there's a gas leak! don't go in there!" . But you mutter something about being a 'fundie' and there's 'there's no such thing as a gas leak' and waltz on in to your destruction. Atheism rejects logic and evidence and is the epitome of irrationalism. It should be abandoned by any rational person as being foolishness.
"It takes no brains to be an atheist. Any stupid person can deny the existence of a supernatural power because man's physical senses cannot detect it. But there cannot be ignored the influence of conscience, the respect we feel for the Moral Law, the mystery of first life...or the marvelous order in which the universe moves about on this earth. All these evidence the handiwork of the beneficent Deity...That Deity is the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ, His Son."- Dwight Eisenhower. Ike says it better than I do.
Ike had an opinion. So do these people. Opinions are not facts.
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.
There's never anything, however absurd, that myriads of people weren't prepared to believe, often so passionately that they'd fight to the death rather than abandon their illusions. To me, that's a good operational definition of insanity.
Arthur C. Clark
If this is your god, he's not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being.
I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
All religions have this in common, that they are an outrage to common sense, for they are pieced together out of a variety of elements, some of which seem so unworthy, sordid, and at odds with man's reason that any strong and vigorous intelligence laughs at them.
Faith is believing things by definition, which are not justified by reason. It it were justified by reason, it wouldn't be faith.
Genealogy of Jesus:
You said the reason the genealogies of Jesus are different in Mathew and Luke, is because the genealogy in Luke, is from Mary.
But Luke clearly says the genealogy is from Joseph. See where it says Joseph? So if this is actually from Mary, there is an error. No mention is made of Mary.
Mathew clearly says the genealogy is also from Joseph. So, the Mathew genealogy is not from Mary either.
Genealogy from Luke:
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli,
Luk 3:24 Which was [the son] of Matthat, which was [the son] of Levi, which was [the son] of Melchi, which was [the son] of Janna, which was [the son] of Joseph,
Luk 3:25 Which was [the son] of Mattathias, which was [the son] of Amos, which was [the son] of Naum, which was [the son] of Esli, which was [the son] of Nagge,
Luk 3:26 Which was [the son] of Maath, which was [the son] of Mattathias, which was [the son] of Semei, which was [the son] of Joseph, which was [the son] of Juda,
Luk 3:27 Which was [the son] of Joanna, which was [the son] of Rhesa, which was [the son] of Zorobabel, which was [the son] of Salathiel, which was [the son] of Neri,
Luk 3:28 Which was [the son] of Melchi, which was [the son] of Addi, which was [the son] of Cosam, which was [the son] of Elmodam, which was [the son] of Er,
Luk 3:29 Which was [the son] of Jose, which was [the son] of Eliezer, which was [the son] of Jorim, which was [the son] of Matthat, which was [the son] of Levi,
Luk 3:30 Which was [the son] of Simeon, which was [the son] of Juda, which was [the son] of Joseph, which was [the son] of Jonan, which was [the son] of Eliakim,
Luk 3:31 Which was [the son] of Melea, which was [the son] of Menan, which was [the son] of Mattatha, which was [the son] of Nathan, which was [the son] of David,
Luk 3:32 Which was [the son] of Jesse, which was [the son] of Obed, which was [the son] of Booz, which was [the son] of Salmon, which was [the son] of Naasson,
Luk 3:33 Which was [the son] of Aminadab, which was [the son] of Aram, which was [the son] of Esrom, which was [the son] of Phares, which was [the son] of Juda,
Luk 3:34 Which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham, which was [the son] of Thara, which was [the son] of Nachor,
Luk 3:35 Which was [the son] of Saruch, which was [the son] of Ragau, which was [the son] of Phalec, which was [the son] of Heber, which was [the son] of Sala,
Luk 3:36 Which was [the son] of Cainan, which was [the son] of Arphaxad, which was [the son] of Sem, which was [the son] of Noe, which was [the son] of Lamech,
Luk 3:37 Which was [the son] of Mathusala, which was [the son] of Enoch, which was [the son] of Jared, which was [the son] of Maleleel, which was [the son] of Cainan,
Luk 3:38 Which was [the son] of Enos, which was [the son] of Seth, which was [the son] of Adam, which was [the son] of God.
David, I must admit that I skipped over studying the geanealogies at first as they appear to be incredibly BORING. The one in Matthew is of Joseph. It is important because, among other things, it shows Jesus to be of the line of Abraham and David. Thus showing He is in the nation and on the throne, respectively. These were kept as legal records, probably in the Temple, and were probably destroyed in 70 A.D. Jesus enemies could of checked these records and probably did. Jesus said the Shepherd of the sheep enters in by the door but the thief and robber climb up some other way to get into the sheepfold. John 10:1-2. The enemies of Christ could not challenge Him in regard to His genealogy. Now, Luke 3 shows the genealogy of Mary, not Joseph. The legal title came through Joseph. The royal blood of David flowed through her veins. The blood title came through Mary. In Luke 3:23 Dr. Luke makes it clear that Joseph was not the father of the Lord Jesus Christ. And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being(as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli. Luke 3:23. The word 'son' as it is used in this genealogy is not in the better manuscripts. Joseph was not the son of Heli. The word 'son' is added to indicate the lineage through the father (the man) who was the head of the house. The genealogy is listed according to the man's name. In Matthew, where it is giving the genealogy through Joseph, it states that Jacob 'begat' Joseph. I hope that cleared this up for you, and more importatntly anyone else who's watching.
David and anyone else, Get a 'Thru the Bible' commentary by J. Vernon McGee to study David's 'error'. Moderator won't let me post my response. The word 'son' in Luke 3:23, is not in the better manuscripts. Joseph was not the son of Heli. The word 'son' was added to indicate the lineage through the father (the man) who was the head of the house.
anyone not see that coming?
Didn't you and I once share a comment on religion and crazies?
Mike – I think I speak for David, but I absolutely refuse to engage in a debate about atheists in prison with you....again. However, if you'd like to talk about how the media has stirred up this non-event to bolster their ratings in a highly divided political environment and how things like this are side effects...I'm sure we'd indulge you.
David Johnson – Yes, we seem to have similar lines of though. I can only assume that you grew up in a secular household, were taught to think rationally by your parents and teachers and have read the same books as me.
pucker up. " I can only assume that you grew up in a secular household, were taught to think rationally by your parents and teachers "
I also grew up in a secular household only believing in Christ starting 4 yrs ago. I have been taught to think rationally and logically, it does help when you get your BS in Computer Science and Engineering.
How come you are not like me Luke? Oh of all the books you read where any 27 of them within the New Testiment cannon.
Yes, I have read the bible. I read a few versions of it, actually. I'm trying to figure out where I said that everone that grew up similar to me must be just like me. Is that how your mind works? And I don't care what your degrees are in. Did you want to discuss this topic, or just babble?
I'm not as well read as you. I have read some of your comments. I was humbled. Cheers!
Well, time to actually earn my pay. Have a good day.
David Johnson – Perhaps that's just my background in the sciences. I had gone to college for Physics and Mathematics, but realized about 5 months in that I didn't want to do long division for a living and majoried in finance/economics. Got another finance degree a few years after that, but never gave up my interest in the physical and biological sciences. I've been self educating since. Been a pleasure talking with you, for what it's worth.
You said, "You also made mention of people making up a god to 'fill the gaps' so to speak."
Early man feared death and could not explain much of anything, about the world around them. Thus, god was born. All the mystery could be attributed to him/them. God explained why it rained, why earthquakes happened, etc. God "filled" the gaps in man's knowledge. As man's knowledge increases, god has fewer gaps to fill. We have learned, that even if we don't know something today, we probably will tomorrow. But even if we don't, it doesn't mean "god did it". It is not an either or situation.
You said, "Throughout history, all cultures acknowledge the existence of God."
That's true Keith. In a book I just recently read, the author listed three solid pages of gods, that man has at one time worshiped. People loved, feared, and prayed to these gods just as you do to your god.
Man is predisposed to inventing gods. But he is not predisposed to inventing any particular god.
Your statement would have been more correct if you would have said: "Throughout history, all cultures acknowledge the existence of god or gods."
Throughout history, all cultures have not acknowledged the existence of the god of Abraham or Jesus. No tribe has ever been found to be worshiping Jesus.
There are 5 major religions in the world today: Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity. Christianity has over 1000 different denominations. Each of the Christian denominations can show you scripture proving they are the one true faith. Many believe, only their members will be saved. Did you pick right?
The Muslims believe their god is the one true god. They have a holy book and that special feeling in their hearts – just like the Christians. You can't prove their god isn't the one true god. The Muslims believe the Christians are infidels. They believe the Christians are going to hell. You could find yourself at a really big barbecue some day. LOL
You said, "I simply am trying to warn a fellow man of danger. If there were a building with a natural gas leak that was taped off with DANGER DO NOT CROSS THIS LINE tape, and your came walking along with a lit cigarette in your mouth, and cut the tape and began walking in; then I, having concern for your safety would would shout out that "there's a gas leak! don't go in there!" . But you mutter something about being a 'fundie' and there's 'there's no such thing as a gas leak' and waltz on in to your destruction."
A gas leak would not be an extraordinary claim. There have been other gas leaks. That's how you know they are dangerous.
The claim that god exists is an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
It is the first "fact" you must establish. If there is not a god, then what does the bible you are always quoting, matter?
You have only a bible that contains errors and a special feeling in your heart as evidence. The bible contains errors. So, you only have that feeling in your heart. Could it be just a bad burrito?
Now, I'm done with this. You will do a knee jerk reaction and quote multiple bible passages. The bible is not inerrant. We can't even be sure if any of it is true.
Satan took Jesus to a high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the Earth. – No can do little buddy. The Earth is a sphere. Say what you want, but this is an error. If the bible is inspired by god, how did this error get included?
I gave you tons of info, including other bible passages showing the biblical authors thought the earth was flat.
I gave you explanations on why Isaiah 40:22 did not indicate the earth was a sphere.
I gave you information on Jesus predicting his return within the 1st century. – He didn't return. LOL
I gave you information on Herod's slaughter of the first born not being recorded anywhere, but the gospels.
This is a lot like there not being any evidence for the Jews wandering in the desert for 40 years.
Lots of people don't think that happened either. Can you say "myth"?
You had said something about it bothering me that the whole world was using AD and BC.
I corrected you on this.
Here is some other stuff to consider if it is true:
A talking snake, knowledge and everlasting life giving fruit, a global flood requiring 2 of every oranism on earth be gathered and then dropped off at appropriate places (what would they have eaten? The salt water would have killed the vegetation), a tower that god was afraid might reach heaven, a man swallowed by a fish and living after a 3 day stay, people living multiple centuries, virgin births, people rising from the dead, unicorns, satyrs, a leviathan that god himself battles.
Harry Potter is more believable than your bible.
Okay, I really am done. I don't care what you believe. Your a fundie for god's sake.
My comments were made, so people may know the truth. For it will set them free of religion. Cheers!