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September 16th, 2010
10:40 PM ET
New Republic controversy on Islam blog post roils HarvardFrom CNN Jerusalem bureau chief Kevin Flower: A blog post on Islam on the website of the liberal political magazine The New Republic has prompted a torrent of criticism that is roiling the hallowed halls of Harvard University. Writing about Muslims in America, New Republic editor and former Harvard professor Martin Peretz posted the following on the magazine's site:
The reaction to Peretz's comments was swift and blistering. New York Times Columnist Nicholas Kristof called the post an example of how "debased and venomous the discourse about Islam has become" and The Atlantic's James Fallows characterized Peretz's words as "an incredible instance of public bigotry in the American intelligentsia." After ten days of heavy and sustained criticism from various quarters of academia and media Peretz issued a quasi-apology for his comments, saying he was wrong and embarrassed to have suggested that any group of Americans is not deserving of First Amendment rights. But he defended his description of Muslim attitudes toward the lives of other Muslims, arguing that the comment was "a statement of fact, not value." Apologies aside, it would appear the controversy has yet to run its course. Today the Boston Globe reported on growing opposition within Harvard University over plans for a daylong celebration of Peretz by some members of the alumni and faculty who have helped raise money for a research fund in his name. Harvard has released a statement acknowledging that Peretz's web post was " “distressing to many members of our community, and understandably so.’’ The university said it will not move to cancel the celebration and defended Peretz's right of free speech. Contacted by the Globe, Peretz said, “I was a faithful Harvard teacher, the notion that I have to defend myself when students who I’ve taught over 40 years are honoring me is really a little stupid.’’ |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Well Honestanon, will try with my best of knowledge and how we were brought up to think but after all only will be my views that others might not like but this is life you can get all to believe or accept your views.
About Critter I will not miss judge him as he guided me to either say Good or Rather shut up and that's what's the Quran instruct us to do therefore I thank him for reminding me...
Please go ahead with questions although it's becoming late but for the sake of truth to avail I will try to go along with you with no lie from my side and the thing I do not know about I will say do not know since this the Quran tells us to say towards any Fatwa. Thanks and welcome.
Those guys really made me smile just do not know if they knew each other or not but here out of reading their comments it seemed as if they are very close friends, would say they have...high sense of humor...Thanks (Reality & Norman) with all respect.
Re-inserted
@ Muneef
Earlier, I saw that critter was baiting you.. maybe a bit unfairly, but likely only out of frustration in not getting a clear answer from any discussion with muslims on this board. You responded with a long post, and toward the end of your post you realized the 'set up'.
I tried to understand your answer.. I could not. But some of the questions were purposely subjective. But I do want to, sincerely, ask some very basic questions that I believe are at the heart of the American apprehension for islam. Would you be willing to answer some very basic questions? Again, this is not a set-up. It is genuine. And I would like you vow over the koran that your answers will be honest. And reasonably brief. I vow that my questions will be fair and brief as well.
Let me know.
Iqbal; Islam's only means of propagating its doctrine is bt attacking other faiths. A muslim moving into a non islamic society what he sees are religions that he should confronted. Due to the confrontational disposition nature of the islamic mindset, the first task is usually one of fighting the biggest religion in the neighbourhood. Sick islamic minds! i am not surprised seeing your doctored clips! By the way 6m muslims get baptized into Christianity in sub saharan Africa annually.
No faith should attack one faith unless it is setanic and I refuse that The Real Islam Teachings be accused of any thing than peace we start our day with Salam and End it with Salam and these greetings of peace said to be the greetings of the peoples in heavens (Salam Ahel Alganah) and now we are being taught about peace but the one we hear of is calling it Land in return of Peace and that's why Palestine is being sliced day by day towards non Islamic Peace?
Another thing those who their countered were mess up with by the you know who or Dr.WHO are crossing all the Deep Seas and become eaten by Sharks in a run for their lives or for a decent living to support them selves or families at origin surely when offered a Permit and or Cash amounts by so called NGO would for that get baptized into Christianity a hundred times but what is deep in their heart counts since God is the judge of all? Maybe it is as the word Taqiyya means is about concealing your true belief? Africa is being sucked out by a vempire and that's why those Africans who were in the past being kidnaped and today are running towards their kidnapers what sort of magic do you call this?
@1usmom
They tell you what they want you to believe. Our Quran in Arabic does not tells us that but not sure about the translation you got? And what ever wars happened were politics and not related to faith... Actually history tells us that even before USA we were invaded and interfered with slicing our lands as you wish..?? Guess you people know nothing about past or present and just declares what is yours and throw behind what's others is??
@ Muneef
Earlier, I saw that critter was baiting you.. maybe a bit unfairly, but likely only out of frustration in not getting a clear answer from any discussion with muslims on this board. You responded with a long post, and toward the end of your post you realized the 'set up'.
I tried to understand your answer.. I could not. But some of the questions were purposely subjective. But I do want to, sincerely, ask some very basic questions that I believe are at the heart of the American apprehension for islam. Would you be willing to answer some very basic questions? Again, this is not a set-up. It is genuine. And I would like you vow over the koran that your answers will be honest. And reasonably brief. I vow that my questions will be fair and brief as well.
Let me know.
Sorry I pasted the wrong Dr.
correct one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOZSrPF5GNo
Want to know more about Islam check
http://www.911Bible.com
also see what this Doctor is saying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjRtT7GsJFs&feature=related
@honestanon: Well said...
You know what makes me wonder? Why is it that those who refuse to see historical facts and present-day headlines about the Islamic ideology of TERROR and HATE against "non-believers" resort to using childish name-calling (@Norman) or hurling accusations of "hate, racism and anti-Muslim bigotry" (@Yasmin) against those who do their RESEARCH and PRESENT THE FACTS?
@reality: Thank you for the facts supporting Professor Peretz's comments... appreciate the common sense approach 😉
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh16yWqLqlw&fs=1&hl=en_US]
Tell me something... If 'radical' muslims are a fringe of all of islam, WHY DOES THIS MAN HAVE THREE MICROPHONES IN FRONT OF HIM? If I'm not mistaken the large blue one is Al Jazeera. Also, notice the audience during the cutaway at 5:10... They don't look like a bunch of rag-tag, dusty, bedraggled jihadists... They look pretty spiffy... like a bunch of middle eastern businessmen...
Can't say this strikes me as 'fringe' anything.... Looks more like mainstream... something.
The more I research this, the more concerned I become.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6ClU8DJJk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1]
Response to video: This is just hate propaganda by this man with a bunch of brainless people listening to him. This hate propaganda is Absolutely Un-Islamic. There are thieves and murderers and instigators in every faith, culture and community. To brand Islam as spewing hate is incorrect. This man is abusing a great faith. Hitler subscribed to christian faith and misled a whole country into believing him. Political leaders, from time immemorial have always used faith to arouse misguided emotions among people. If you look only for darkness, you will find some everywhere, but to close all access to light is not being very bright.
Muslim's view is skewed such that anything western is Christian that is why Tariq above compares actions of secular governments to actions of a religion like islam. None of the wars he cites above where fought based on Biblical references or had a religious motive. But all atrocities muslims commit are Quran inspired and since islamic countries do not separate faith from government, there is a wrong view of seeing actions of western goverments as being Christian actions!
What do you expect from a faith that serves death as the punishment for leaving the faith? It's a childish, violent faith.
"...I wonder whether I need honor these people and pretend that they are worthy of the privileges of the First Amendment ..."
And here I thought the honor was in our recognition and support of every person's inalienable rights, not doling out privileges to the 'deserving' few.
Chuck: They (Americans including their President) fear being murdered by muslims who are famous for their use of the sword to slit a human throat. Pathetic!
Why can there not be any public criticism of those who would impose sharia law in this country?
@Critter : The @Reality guy is just copying the same 'content' everywhere. He/She has nothing to comment on the article. I've been following this guy and he/she come's up with the same wikipedia compiled set of data. Wake up to reality, @Reality
You too missed the "for new members only" opening. And by the way, the facts were taken from the news and/or sites like
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
where you can find a complete archive of the names and number of Iraqi citizens killed in the Sunni-Shiite civil war.
For everyone except Reality:
Do you think Reality is being an A55?
Please forgive Normon, he is a victim of his birth origins.
To wit:
John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when. Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.
The Situation Today
Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed
It is very disturbing that such religious violence and hatred continues unabated due to radomness of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper and every web page every day, that we would finally realize the significant stupidity of all religions (and Normon?).
Apparently you missed the "For everyone except Reality".
Your droning refrain is detracting from your message.
Normon, Normon, Normon,
Reiteration is a major tool for education. Once learned, please advance to the next class.
Ah, Reality...
Your presumption of the role of teacher only shows your disconnect from your own moniker.
Normon, Normon, Normon,
Hmmm, the reality is the common sense approach. Said common sense defies some and therefore needs to be repeated. The days of bible and koran "thum-ping" are over. Welcome to the modern world.
This is why old media types should stay away from computers. They don't realize that it goes to the rest of the world.
Oh by the way, Glenn Greenwald (my favorite blogger) and Andrew Sullivan both demolish Martin "Israel is my tribe first" Peretz outright racism and bigotry.
The last form of acceptable hate that won't destroy your career, but rather qualify you for a best-seller is anti-Muslim bigotry.
Right on Yasmin! Glenn is my favorite blogger as well. Marty Peretz is a nut job, period. You beat me to the puch.
The "facts" the moron above quotes are sensationalist examples of crimes that are as much representative of 1/5th of humanity as the constant killings, beheadings, bombings going on in Mexico is representative of all Mexicans, or Israel's constant F-16 bombings, apartheid imprisonment and keeping an "open air prison" in Gaza is representative of all Jews.
If those are the best examples of the crimes committed by 1/5th of human beings on the planet who happen to be Muslim, then they are saints when you compare them with America's killing of 1 million Iraqis, Lebanese, Somalis, Yemenis, Afghans, Pakistanis, Palestinians many of them innocent Muslims killed in unprovoked wars aided and abetted by the very neocon "Prof. Peretz" that you like to defend?
Should Muslims then blame all Americans for the far superior deaths and killings unleashed by its military might?
Yasmin-
You said- "America's killing of 1 million Iraqis, Lebanese, Somalis, Yemenis, Afghans, Pakistanis, Palestinians many of them innocent Muslims killed in unprovoked wars". It this considered common know fact, or something you've pulled out of your head. Where do the Yemenis and Palestinians come into this?
Out of the big list, Only Iraqis and Palestinians deserve sympathy. Afghanis– Have been Killing others and themselves from 10th century..These people were largely responsibel for major death and destruction in India if you read history. Whats with the Somalis and Yemenis? They are just a messed up bunch of morons.
life was quite cheap in the West not that long ago. See world war two and the holocaust. Average it out, and Muslims are still way ahead of the West in the value they place on life.
k ill 100 a day or k ill 100,000 every 1,000 days, it is the same.
Only for the eyes of Ahmad Hosein:
Some elements of our War on Terror, Horror and Aggression:
-Operation Iraqi Freedom- The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat, 97,172 – 106,047 Iraqi civilians killed as of 8/10/2010 mostly due the Shiite and Sunni suicide bombers.
– Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror,
– Sa-dd-am, his sons and major he-nchmen have been deleted. Sa-dd-am's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes. Kuwait was saved.
– Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)
– Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “cra-zies” as they have thre-atened Libya. OBL sure is a di-sgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???
– North Korea is still u-ncivil but is contained.
– Northern Ireland is finally at peace.
– The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “squ-are one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!
– Bin La-d-en has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.
– Fa-na–tical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
– Timothy McVeigh was exe-cuted. Terry Nichols will follow soon.
– Eric Ru-dolph is spending three life terms in pri-son with no par-ole.
– Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.
– Islamic Sudan, Dar-fur and So-malia are still terror hot spots.
– The terror and tor-ture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Ra-dovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war – charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.
– And of course the bloody terror brought about the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.
Facts "Reality" Forgot
-Hiroshima 166k dead
-Nagasaki 80k dead
-Vietnam 182K dead
-Iraq 110k-600k dead
Civilians gently killed by US military in last 60 years
Tariq,
Obviously you missed this part about our War on Terror, Horror and Aggression:
And of course the bloody terror brought about the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.
@Reality
You do know that last sentence of yours makes no sense grammatically, right?
Critter,
Oops, make that: And of course the bloody terror brought about BY the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.
Good to see you got to the end of the list "for Ahmad eyes". The hyphens are present because of the inane world filter used on this blog. See below:
The moderators of this blog have set up a secret forbidden word filter which unfortunately not only will delete or put your comment in the dreaded "waiting for moderation" category but also will do the same to words having fragments of these words. For example, "t-it" is in the set but the filter will also pick up words like Hitt-ite, t-itle, beati-tude, practi-tioner and const-tution. Then there words like "an-al" thereby flagging words like an-alysis and "c-um" flagging acc-umulate or doc-ument. You would think that the moderators would have corrected this by now considering the number of times this has been commented on but they have not. To be safe, I typically add hyphens in any word that said filter might judge "of-fensive".
Since when???
newmediajournal.us/staff/imani/2010/07152010.htm
@EVERYONE
For those of us who have been on the blogs since the begining there is a new comer...
His name is @HONESTANON-–He has been inciting hatred towards (all muslims), and anyone who disagrees with him, including attacking a lot of us, while simultaneously attempting to squelch free speech.
These were the same tactics used in the past by a man named HITLER.
I wanted to speak out so you know who this person 'really' is.
I wish all of you peace.....
The facts supporting Professor Peretz's comments:
For new members only-
1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured
1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh
2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured
3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat, 97,172 – 106,047 Iraqi civilians killed, iraqbodycount.org/ and
defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf
4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]
5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.
6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.
7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.
8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.
9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.
10) – Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror
11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.
12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.
13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,
14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.
15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.
@Reality
I think your post does not properly address Professor Peretz's characterization of the lack, among Rauf's followers, of "raising a fuss". All you did was simply list many of the events that may or may not have been included in his personal observations when evaluating the observed "lack".
But since I've seen that list before, I can only assume that you were not trying very hard this time.
See? All that copying and pasting is not really the best way of teaching people the facts.
Even a reporter has to put things in context so readers can make sense of the facts themselves as embedded in the narrative.
Critter,
Obviously, you missed the "for new members only" part.
Another list for "new members only":
Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:
-Operation Iraqi Freedom- The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat, 97,172 – 106,047 Iraqi civilians killed as of 8/10/2010 mostly due the Shiite and Sunni suicide bombers.
– Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror,
– Sa-dd-am, his sons and major he-nchmen have been deleted. Sa-dd-am's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes. Kuwait was saved.
– Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)
– Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “cra-zies” as they have thre-atened Libya. OBL sure is a di-sgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???
– North Korea is still u-ncivil but is contained.
– Northern Ireland is finally at peace.
– The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “squ-are one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!
– Bin La-d-en has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.
– Fa-na–tical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
– Timothy McVeigh was exe-cuted. Terry Nichols will follow soon.
– Eric Ru-dolph is spending three life terms in pri-son with no par-ole.
– Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.
– Islamic Sudan, Dar-fur and So-malia are still terror hot spots.
– The terror and tor-ture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Ra-dovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war – charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.
– And of course the bloody terror brought about the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.
@Reality
I guess you missed the point I was making. Your eyes must get pretty tired, I guess. Mine do, too. Especially after scrolling past the miles and miles of posts like yours. I really do like it more when you speak. Sorry if it offends you. sorta. maybe....
...meh.