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October 9th, 2010
02:44 PM ET
Woman charged for destroying controversial Jesus art in ColoradoEditor's note: A lawyer for Kathy Folden, who was charged Wednesday by Loveland, Colorado police with criminal mischief - a felony - said she will plead not guilty. “Kathy is an ordinary American with some sincerely held religious beliefs, and like a lot of Americans and a lot of people in Colorado she was pretty upset by some of the displays at a city-owned museum,” one of her attorneys, Cliff Stricklin, told CNN Friday. “The real issue is the city of Loveland, which is not supposed to be endorsing or belittling religion,” he said. “They specifically endorsed a piece that belittled Jesus Christ.” Striklin said that Folden will challenge the charge on the basis that a felony is supposed to involve destruction of more than $1,000 worth of property. “There’ no way the state can prove that this piece was worth over $1,000,” Stricklin said. Folden, 56, of Kalispell, Montana, was released from jail Thursday on $350 bail. Striklin said that this weekend she will return home, where the mother and grandmother works as a long-haul trucker.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Would the museum have even shown the piece, if it belittled an arabian pedophile? Yeah, didn't think so....
Why thanks CatholicMom! You are right, from now on I will gladly be a Sheep for Jesus sake,lol! Thats a wonderful thought. Everytime someone calls me that, I am gone to honestly bless them for the kind word!!
And I will be Bleatingly proud of my t-i-t-le!
You have a Blessed evening, and may the Lord Bless your Heart! Nice to be in the fold with you!! Such a breath of fresh air.
Why thanks CatholicMom! You are right, from now on I will gladly be a Sheep for Jesus sake,lol! Thats a wonderful thought. Everytime someone calls me that, I am gone to honestly bless them for the kind word!!
And I will be Bleatingly proud of my t-i-tle!
You have a Blessed evening, and may the Lord Bless your Heart! Nice to be in the fold with you!! Such a breath of fresh air.
Why thanks CatholicMom!
You are right, from now on I will gladly be a Sheep for Jesus sake,lol! Thats a wonderful thought. Everytime someone calls me that, I am gone to honestly bless them for the kind word!!
And I will be Bleatingly proud of my t-i-t-le!
You have a Blessed evening, and may the Lord Bless your Heart! Nice to be in the fold with you!! Such a breath of fresh air.
Lol, no Mark, its this cnn blog, not acting right!
Till you all find out one day that you do indeed have a soul! WOW!!
Thomas
@Kyrie
Here's something you may not have considered: art expressed by traumatized victims of child ab-use.
What sort of blandishments are given by child abusers when they are Catholic priests? Might they bring Jesus into the conversation and use Jesus as a justification and a shield for the evil they are doing?
And if someone tries to express that to the world in an artistic way, would you still call it blasphemous and seek to suppress it? To silence the vi-ctims?
The Catholic Church is a disgusting pit of evil. They paint and carve blasphemous images of Jesus all the time.
The Catholic Church is nothing but the moral descendants of the Pharisees manipulating everyone within reach of their filthy claws.
If I were to destroy blasphemous images of Jesus and God, I would start in the Vatican and burn it to the ground
Kyrie...Good for you! Keep up defending God, you know what he said "You will be hated for my namesake". Before they hated you, they hated me.
@Thomas
You are a real demonic jerk! That piece of "art" was a depiction of total filth with Jesus as its subject. You people need to pack up and leave if you don't like this country..bunch of evil screwballs! Your all trying to console one another about there being no Jesus, no hell, and that you have no soul.
Well here is an alert for you,,,There are ALL those things, and there is a Jesus aka as God, and you DO have a soul!! Yeaaaa! And someday you are gonna meet your maker, and you will eat your bitter words. Just remember this: There is a hell! I am not gone to sugar coat it.
@ REALITY (I LARGE PRINT FOR ANSWERS TO YOUR POST)
Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment.
1. SO WHAT? THAT IS A LIE....THE BIBLE NEVER CHANGES. MAN DOES!
2. As per most contemporary historic Jesus exegetes, Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan se-cts.
The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hit-ti-tes, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html
For added "pizz-azz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "fil-icider".
Current RCC problems:
Pedo-ph-iliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!
2.I AM NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR LIST OF PROFESSORS, AND THE REST OF THE GARBAGE YOU WROTE. YOU CANNOT DOWNPLAY THE BIBLE, OR THE WORDS OF MY LORD.
APPARENTLY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THE CATHOLICS DID NOT DIVIDE GOD, IF YOU UNDERSTOOD THE BIBLE AND HAD THE HOLY SPIRIT IN YOUR LIFE, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT. THAT IS WHO HE WAS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF TIME. GET A CLUE!
YOU MEAN THE CATHOLIC RELIGION HAD SOME PRIESTS WHO TURNED OUT TO BE SINNERS...SINCE THEY HAD ORIGINAL SIN, THEY NEEDED ATONEMENT, YES. MAYBY THEY WERE NOT WHO THEY SAID THEY WERE..WE WERE WARNED TO WATCH OUT FOR WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING. THE FACT THE WERE MOSTLY WHITE HIERARCHY ,WHAT CAN I SAY? DOES SKIN COLOR MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU SIN?
3. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Current problems:
Adu-lterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,
3. I CAN SEE BY YOUR WORDS, SATAN IS ALIVE AND WELL IN YOUR LIFE...WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF I TOLD YOU THAT YOU ARE NO BETTER THEN THE LATTER YOU SPEAK OF? YOUR A SINNER TOO...!
Now that we are past all that hard work you did just for my eyes, try to open yours! Get rid of your lies that you are feeding off of, so you to may be saved when Jesus C-h-r-is-t comes back for his church. Your soul (and you do have one, kid not yourself) will be judged...REPENT and know what it is to love and not fear..your God!
Laura, Laura, Laura,
Obviously, you did not access and read the referenced materials. And obviously you suffer from a SEVERE form of the Three B Syndrome i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwash in the myths and embellishments of Christianity.
The following should help in your recovery:
From James Somerville-
"John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when. Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.
The Situation Today
Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed."
Most who still believe in a big man who lives in the sky and knows if you are naughty or nice cant really be held to any higher standard of behavior. They don't even read the fairy stories they claim to live their lives by 🙂 They should give the poor, dull girl a lollypop and send her home rather than charge her with anything. She really has done the artist a favor by bringing publicity to the piece.
She can tell the Judge it was"PERFORMANCE ART"
Typical reaction of a so called Christian. If you don't believe as they do you are evil. That's why I look at the first Amendment as a "Freedom From Religion". If the Art was a symbol of any other deity she would probably have endorsed it
I posted something and it went about 50 posts back! I hope everyone will readand leave an opinion. I do not like when people make what could be considered a threat against kids, regardless of the pun intended. There are too many nuts in the world!
Did everybody just read past this post?? I am more upset about this comment then anything on this blog! I think kids should be left out of this..PERIOD!Its the internet, and you never know what crazies may just try something like this.
You are a idiot for even making such a comment!
mightyfudge
I'm gonna find out what school her grandchildren attend and go rip their crappy finger paintings off the wall. As a professional artist, their Hillbilly kitsch offends me greatly.
tl;dr
"Like a nativity scene is an obvious violation because it is a religious activity in itself and promotion is it's sole purpose."
Hi Rasion – Sorry, studying for a exam tomorrow morning so I am late replying and its gotta be a short one. I have no doubt that those on the other side of the asile see it as a violation just as on our side of the asile see the art in question and simular, that we feel demeans a persons religous views on public funded property is bad. What I am questioning is do we just spend the rest of our lives clashing over it or is there more than a my way and there is no alternative. The question I asked did not say for either of us to drop the items in question but to see if a Athiest and a person of faith can find some middle ground.... even in this small virtually meaningless forum.
In other words, the art can be displayed on publicly funded lands and in Decemeber, for example, a outside group be allowed to place a nativity scene on the publicially funded city hall steps. The city is not drawing the picture of negative picture of Jesus and the city is not building the nativity. The area is used as just a forum. Can you find your way to this middle ground. I would garner that only a extremist would deal in absolutes and could not find his or her way to the middle ground. In the end the only ones that would be upset are those that just want the other side to vanish and disappear.
@Mark
Mark, I am sorry, but it does not sound like you are seeking a middle ground. It sounds like you are seeking special privileges instead.
I may be wrong, but I do not think it matters whether or not the city is funding the nativity scene. It is public property and therefore supposed to stay secular in nature and function. I do not know why this bothers you so much. It is the law.
Here's a question for you. A religious priest, rabbi, pastor, etc. gets elected to public office. Do they get to coerce their fellow public servants into having a public display of prayer as they start each day while getting paid with public money?
I do not think so.
This priest/pastor also has local law enforcement, wearing their official uniforms and using official squad cars, police the parking lot at his/her church.
Do you think this should be allowed to happen? I don't.
What if I were also near to your city hall and had a different religion and was filled with righteous wrath at your blasphemous portrayal of the birth of Jesus. Would you let me protest next to your nativity display with a very negative display of my own?
Maybe you should think of it as your religion having absolutely no secular authority or authorization from secular authorities.
You have religious authority only within your own religion and you would probably claim that this was given to you by your deity of choice, right?
In the secular world (you know, the real one? haha) you have no authority and no standing. You should not, in my firm opinion, even have tax-exemption status, as this is a special privilege. You pay no taxes and have no claim upon the government in any case.
Any religious claims need to be addressed to your deity of choice.
But I suppose all this means nothing to most religious people. (sigh) They only know that they are not allowed to do whatever they want for whatever reason they can hack up like a hairball from their religious texts.
I tell you, Mark, religious thinking gets nothing but scorn from me, for these and many more reasons. You scorn absolutes when religion is filled with them, you say only an extremist could not find their way to a middle ground yet there may be no middle ground as such....
As far as I am concerned religion is a crime, so the closest analogy would be trying to find a middle ground between criminals and victims...what do you think about that? You seek to violate the law and call it middle ground, am I right?
Yet I say religion has been violating human rights since the dawn of humanity. What middle ground is there for me to seek?
I have tertiary syphilis.
Kate – Might I also offer a welcome back. To me I feel it is not only the Christian or persons of Faith that have a growing issue with the extremist within but with many segments of American society. I feel that its the guy or girl in that is happily in the middle who everyday find themselves being pulled towards one group or another. It just depends on the individual and how their fears are being pandered to.
I thought about this when you said : "remotely intertwined with government is because people are scared". The interesting thing is that this statement can pretty much be said about peoples fears of any group that can be seen as being not for the same thing they are. I read an article this morning warning me as a conservative to be scared because if the liberals have their way I will lose my rights to have my own personal car and I will be restricted to mass transit which will eventually limit my movements. Because I am black I am being told that I should be scared because any vote that is not for a democrat will be a vote to remove Obama and return us to the cotton fields. What you state as people are not and have never been the same throughout society.
I always laughed when non-Christians say that all of us Christians want to make America a Christian theocracy. Do any of them know that the thinking Christian knows that we can not even get all Christians on the same page at the same time? I am Methodist would I want to run the risk that the Christian country would be run Catholic or Baptist? Goodness, what if the Amish rose to power?
Kate, my fear is that as we all get pulled to the extremes things such as this or worst will occur. I am talking about museams burned down, car dealerships vandalized, new home communities torched, and folks like Greenpeace who decide to attempt to damage and cut off a whaling ship. The list can go on and on from all sides. Its that which people I feel really fear. Its the guy going into a church to shoot a abortion doctor. Its the person killing the lab tech who experiments with animals. Kate wish I had a solution but this is why every day when I pass the honda with the bumper sticker that states coexist that I wonder if we will ever be able too. For some within the groups, co-existence is when the opposing group is not visiable or silenced. Either way Kate, much respect and peace.
Raison – Forms of art from many faiths are in display around the country but are you denying that there are aspects of the persons of non-faith that feel that this represents state sponsership of a religion? With this classification there are elements that want such removed. You see unlike many I am not going to paint all Atheist with the same brush. There are those that I truly feel are attempting to find a middle ground. I am talking about the ones that do not go nuts every December.
Raison I do not know you but if you are a atheist or other I would like to know if we can consider a piece of art that is slanderous or negative towards a group of faith worthy of being displayed in a state funded building can there be a middle ground during the Christimas holiday season a local ground can be allowed to setup a nativity scene and/or a manorah, Kwanza candles or such?
Rasion- Christian and other forms of art are in display at many places in society. Open your eyes and try reading without emotion. The problem is that there are segments of society that are presently attempting to have them removed because they feel that in a state run museam it had no place.
The question would be if a athiest has no issue with this peice of art work then this December will he have a issue with a city hall allowing a group to put up monorahs, kwanza candles or a nativity scene on city or country grounds ?
But I am shocked .... Totally shocked that some one who disagrees with my view states that my arguement does not have merit. Silly kid, that is why this is a place of debate.
What a horrible piece of 'reporting' this is! We don't even know what they're talking about! If they can display it in a museum, you can put it in your report!
If it was denigating Christ, than it's old hat. We should come to expect that from this society which doesn't respect anything and just goes for shock to get attention, because they have no talent!