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October 12th, 2010
10:19 AM ET
Mormon leader's remarks spark outcry on same-sex issuesEditor's Note: Since this post published Tuesday morning, the LDS Church has issued a statement in response to the day's events. Please see some of the comments, and a link to the full statement, at the bottom of this piece. Twice a year, members of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints convene for a general conference during which the LDS Church leadership addresses the Mormon faithful. Broadcast via satellite to millions of Mormons across the globe, and speaking in front of the more than 20,000 LDS Church members who flock to the enormous conference center in Salt Lake City, Utah, the leaders offer insights on doctrine and guidance to church adherents. One speech at the 180th semiannual conference, held the first weekend of October, ignited a controversy that spawned protests, set off a petition-signing push and led to allegations of cleaned-up records. It sparked battles in the blogosphere and online onslaughts of accusations, frenzied Facebook campaigns and even unconfirmed claims of a suicide. It prompted Utah’s largest newspaper, The Salt Lake Tribune, to issue a statement to readers this weekend explaining its in-depth coverage and pushed the church-owned newspaper, the Deseret News, to print Sunday a “call for civility.” The speech in question was that made by LDS Church apostle Boyd K. Packer, 86, the president of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles – a governing body in the worldwide church. In his address on October 3, Packer suggested to Mormons, among other things, that allowing people in same-sex relationships to marry “would legalize immorality, as if a vote would somehow alter the designs of God’s laws and nature,” and that any attraction between people of the same sex can – with enough faith – be changed.  Boyd Packer, the president of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles “Some suppose that they were preset and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and unnatural,” he said. “Not so! Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone?” These statements created a swift backlash in Utah and elsewhere. Calling the comments “heartless,” a local gay activist, and former practicing Mormon, organized through online social networking a silent protest around Temple Square, ground zero for the LDS Church. About 4,500 people, dressed in black, laid their bodies down Thursday night around the Salt Lake City site, said Eric Ethington, of the blog PRIDEinUtah, who spearheaded the effort. Mixed in, he said, were at least 100 active members of the LDS Church. “While we respect your right to say what you want, we will hold you accountable,” Ethington said, explaining the intended statement. “There are consequences for hate speech.” The LDS Church said it, too, recognizes people’s rights to say what they believe, but that the intention behind Packer's message has been misconstrued. “Those familiar with the church’s doctrine on the importance of marriage and family know it is based on principles of respect and love for all of God’s children,” said Kim Farah, LDS Church spokeswoman, in a written statement. “We have continually emphasized that there is no room in this discussion for hatred or mistreatment of anyone.” What Packer said wasn’t what shocked Micah Bisson, spokesman for Affirmation, an organization that supports lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender LDS Church members – former and currently active. “The words he chose to use are no different than those he’s used in the past. The issue is more the timing,” Bisson said. “The timing was absolutely terrible.” What he was referring to, of course, is the recent rash of publicized suicides by gay teens in the U.S. In the span of three weeks in September, five young gay men killed themselves. Bisson was reached Friday by phone in San Francisco, California, just hours before a rally and candlelight vigil to increase awareness about LGBT suicides and the need to stop them. He, as well as others including Ethington, said he’d heard a young gay Mormon in Utah killed himself around the time of Packer’s speech. CNN has not been able to confirm this, and the head of the Utah Pride Center said this rumor was news to her. When the LDS Church first posted the transcript of Packer’s speech, critics went wild – saying the transcript didn’t match his spoken words, that the words were changed to lessen the insult. The phrase about “inborn tendencies” was changed to “inborn temptations” and the rhetorical question about why God would create anyone with such traits was deleted. On the Monday following LDS Church general conferences, the spokeswoman said, “each speaker has the opportunity to make any edits necessary to clarify differences between what was written and what was delivered or to clarify the speaker’s intent. President Packer has simply clarified his intent.” The Human Rights Campaign, the nation’s largest LGBT civil rights agency, issued a media release and announced a press conference in Salt Lake City, scheduled for Tuesday. Immediately following the press conference, the HRC spokesman said the organization will hand-deliver about 150,000 signatures on an open letter to Packer. That letter reads in part:
Again, Farah of the LDS Church emphasized that the church’s stance on marriage and family “is based on respect and love for all of God’s children.” Backing Packer, close to 15,000 (and growing) young LDS men and women have gone to the Facebook page WE LOVE YOU - President Boyd K. Packer, promising to send him 100,000 letters of support on Saturday. And though critics have weighed in posting messages on the page, there are notes of gratitude, thanking the one who they believe speaks "the will of God." They offer testimonies showing their faith in him. One woman thanks him for not mincing "words to make them easier to digest by those who would attempt to call evil good and good evil." Another says, "I don't care what people are saying..I loved this man and his talk...ROCK ON PRES.PACKER....I mean..keep being real...We Love You!!!" But those assembling Tuesday for the press conference are arriving with a different message. One speaker will be Valerie Larabee, the executive director of the Utah Pride Center, which directly serves Utah’s LGBT community “We find ourselves often in the position of picking up the pieces when Mormon leaders put out strong messages about gay and lesbian people being immoral,” Larabee said. “It creates divisions in families and is very unsettling to our youth and their youth. We provide a safe and affirming space for people in crisis. They’re OK the way they are.” The statements by Packer are “disheartening,” she said, in part because there have been recent inroads in building understanding and respect. In November 2009, the LDS Church backed a Salt Lake City anti-discrimination ordinance, protecting the LGBT community in housing and employment matters. This support came one year after the church’s much-publicized push to pass California’s Proposition 8, a bill that outlawed in that state same-sex marriages - a matter that’s weaving its way through the courts. In the aftermath of this and the protests that took place outside LDS temples, church officials – not on the highest levels – began meeting with members of the LGBT community. “Through the telling of our stories and the stories of our community, we’re breaking down the stereotypes,” Larabee said. But the conversations are “only scratching the surface, and unfortunately cultural and doctrinal beliefs at higher levels of the church are very strong… We have a lot of work to do.” [Updated: 4:30 p.m. ET] Michael Otterson, speaking on behalf of the LDS Church, issued a statement after the Human Rights Campaign delivered the petition signatures in Salt Lake City. His words, as seen in this written statement, spoke of the "bitter sting of persecution and marginalization" that Mormons felt in the church's early history and suggested that this makes members "sensitive to the vulnerable in society." Though the LDS Church does not agree with HRC in many respects, he said that Mormons "join our voice with others in unreserved condemnation of acts of cruelty, or attempts to belittle or mock any group or individual that is different - whether those differences arise from race, religion, mental challenges, social status, sexual orientation, or for any other reasons." Otterson also reiterated LDS Church doctrine, saying "any sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, and we define marriage as between a man and a woman. However, that should never, ever be used as justification for unkindness. Jesus Christ, whom we follow, was clear in his condemnation of sexual immorality, but never cruel." He also pointed out that while same-sex attraction is inevitable, those wishing to follow church doctrine can stay faithful:
"Obviously, some will disagree with us," he said. "We hope that any disagreement will be based on a full understanding of our position, and not on distortion or selective interpretation." |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Packer is a hypocrite and disgusts me. He also violates his own religion.Not that I feel the church of LDS is an actual religion, more like a man man cult by some confused man who flet he needed mutiple women in his life. They make it up as they go. Could not drink caffiene, oh wait, lets invest in Pepsi, ok now you can have caffiene....A joke.
Since when does religion allow you to judge and criticize others???? Since when do we allow church and state to mix??? Prop 8 was none of the church's business. They, and Packer, need to repent for thier own sins before judging others.
Just because you don't personally understand someone else's views and beliefs does NOT make them wrong! God loves EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!
"Since when does religion allow you to judge and criticize others????" Every Sunday in many churches across this great land this happens. I guess you have not been paying attention.
Hey Jenn......I LOVED you very last sentence! Now why don't you try it on for size. I know, it's hard to practice what you preach but give it a try!
the "church" shouldn't spread lies to its "sheep" think for yourselves please.
*cough* Catholic Church *cough*
Why would the Heavenly Father create a religious cult that was founded upon the lies perpetuated by a criminal (AKA Joseph Smith) who was primarily interested in ways to support adultery? The problem here is that Morons designate their leader as a "prophet" – meaning that this bigot is ostensibly speaking, to the faithful, as the voice of God. Mormons may be the nicest and kindest people in the world, but it amazes me how they overlook the cult aspects of their doctrine, and just allow the "prophet" to divine the ridiculous – from this statement to Holy Mormon Underwear to stockpiles of canned goods and caffeine bans. With "enough faith," I guess you can be duped into thinking anything....
Well put though they are not all nice!! I live in Phoenix where we also have alot of them. I have personally had real estate agents, when looking for a home, advise me to avoid Morman nieghborhoods as they will make a non-morman's life miserable. I've seen it first hand. My girlfriend and her family had to relocate as the morman kids would harrass the non morman kids to the point of tears and pain. I've seen first hand, a Utah employee not doing his job an failed internal audit report it to the church and the church send a morman state representative up to get involved. LDS has way to much power and does not use it for good
Ah, using Hate Speech to counter supposed Hate Speech. Makes sense....
For Jen:
"I have personally had real estate agents, when looking for a home, advise me to avoid Morman nieghborhoods as they will make a non-morman's life miserable. I've seen it first hand. My girlfriend and her family had to relocate as the morman kids would harrass the non morman kids to the point of tears and pain. I've seen first hand, a Utah employee not doing his job an failed internal audit report it to the church and the church send a morman state representative up to get involved. LDS has way to much power and does not use it for good"
For the first part – people can be cruel. Doesn't matter what religion they are or where they are from. It doesn't excuse them. If they are Mormon and acting this way, then they aren't living the values that the church teaches them.
As to the latter part of your statement about failed internal audit reports and so forth...um...I haven't got a clue about what you are talking about and don't know what the person's religion has to do with it if it is an "auditing" issue and a state representative...That just confused me...
Wow, I just love the civility going on. I am a member of the LDS church by choice. I joined the church when I was 21. I had heard and learned about all of the hatred when I grew up in my previous congregation and I knew that the hate they were spewing about "Mormons" couldn't be 100% true. Thank goodness I had great parents that taught me to look at something from many different sides and get as much multilateral information about something before you form your opinions. I ask that you do the same thing before you form your opinions on what was said or what "mormons" are. I can tell you that I have never felt or heard hate speech from an LDS leader. Individuals...yes, but not from the leadership. Point being, we are all members of the human race and IMO, children of the the same God. We are all different, but that doesn't that we should hate each other. We should all try and make society better and individuals better. To do that successfully, hate cannot be in the equation...this goes both ways.
You support bigamy. That is enough for me to not like anything to do with your so called religion.
Hey "Redisgreat"......Have you been living under a rock?! Bigamy is no longer practiced by the Mormon church for what....over 100 years now? Stop beating that dead horse and try again.
I have read that a genetic defect is the cause of Mormonism. There is a gene called by scientists the "BS Detector Enactor" gene. That is the gene which leads to the development of a BS Detector in the brain's Corposis Secularis Rationalis lobe. A robust BS Detector allows someone to realize when they are being fed a bunch of hogwash. Studies have shown that this lobe is miniscule or missing. This leads to a condition known as BS Naivte Syndrome, in which the victim is pretty much willing to believe anything he or she is told.
There is no known cure.
millions of members around the world????????......what about the defectors???...by the thousands every day........what can you say about mormons if the have this unamerican beck in their ranks???????....and do not forget the mitt.....
about 13 millian 🙂 and counting
I'm not an active member of the Mormon church,but I'm glad Boyd Packer is not afraid to stand up for what he believes in!
I don't like these people, they seem to be into mind control. They are the most controversal Church of all time. When I heard that their founder read instruction from God out of a hat where God printed gold plates, it was a stretch to believe, but then when I heard that he LOST THE PLATES on the way home.........come on, who would lose plates written by the almighty on the way home from work? HUH???????? There are even more unbelievable things in this religion.......Jesus Christ lived in the US? They believe that. So, that being said, who cares what they think?
Wow, have you ever bothered to actually try and learn about the Church's history from anyone other than the anti-Mormon haters? Try cracking a book written by people without an axe to grind concerning Mormonism. You're about as inaccurate as you can be in this post.
"There are even more unbelievable things in this religion". But hey they don't have a talking burning bush!! No way that loonie idea was already taken.
well, seeing as how neither of those things are true... maybe you should learn how to think.
WE HAVE A NEW RECORD!!!!!
This is AWESOME! and people call ME kooky for being a Mormon.
This post is an example of what happens when people play the game of "telephone" with our beliefs. Now Joseph had a printing press in his hat which printed gold pages which he managed to quickly translate and then loose on his way home from finding the hat?
Dude, aren't our stories wild enough already? Do you really have to believe anti-Mormon blog posts so much that you would quote them as facts to deride somebody's religion when it's obvious you haven't even tried to look up the story?
wow. I usually just like to browse the comments, but you actually solicited a reply. cheers!
My father was good at the same thing you are. Spray water on a hornets nets and watch what happens. I would love to open debate you on these ideas you have it would be fun. I'll bring my grims fairy tails and you can just make up what ever comes into your mind. It will still be enjoyable. I would challenge you to find out what the real stroy behind Joseph Smith is and I would suggest you find from more then on source. Study it in your mind come to your own ideas, instead of someone elses.
Nice article, but it followed the same pattern most of the articles I’ve read have followed: take one paragraph out of a 16-minute discourse, remove it from its context, misrepresent what the speaker said even in that one paragraph, and then spend the rest of the report talking about people’s response to what the speaker never said in the first place. I would have thought CNN was above this kind of trash. :-/
http://bookofjeffrey.blogspot.com/2010/10/president-packer-postulate.html
What good to the forum community would truth and accuracy be? We thrive on innuendo and half truth. We love a badly reported event. It gives us something to do. If you do not like the format then leave. Or tune into Fox or MSNBC and watch them do the same thing all day long.
Isn't funny that hate mongers are always misconstrued? Look at recent misunderstood people or groups: Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell, Mel Gibson, Right Wing Evangelicals, Mormon leadership – the list goes on.
I think that it is far more immoral to have several wives at once, than a single, devoted spouse.
The Mormons are a fine group to talk of immorality!
Good point!
Memo to Peter. Mormons stopped plural marriages long ago. Stop beating that dead horse.
WO!...look who is COMPARING marital "types". Wait wait wait....I thought that everyone should be free to marry however they want?! So now....a gay marriage is a 'step up' from polygamy?
Gays are better than polygamists? hmmm...I THOUGHT WE WERE EQUAL!?!?!?
You just disproved yourself! You seem to think that YES...there is a morality scale when it comes to classifying the type of marriage you are in!
Abraham and many of the Old Testament prophets had multiple wives. Where in the scriptures does it say that polygamy, when the Lord commands it, is not okay?
Interesting that a lot of comments are "my cult isn't as crazy as your cult". If Christians were to step outside their bubble and look at their cult dispassionately in the stark light of day they would see how ridiculous their beliefs are too.
"If were to step outside their bubble and look at their cult dispassionately in the stark light of day they would see how ridiculous their beliefs are too."
Fixed.
Mr. BOYd PACKER-
Who are you to question God's intentions?
One of God's apostles here upon the earth.
I'm not real
Yes you are. You typed that crap.
But hell is.
"the mormon church needs to mind it's own business"... Actually, it was minding its own business. The business of how its members lead their lives is specifically their business. The religion, any religion, is made up of the people who believe in it. Everyone on here seems to want to point a finger at a church, or a "them". There isn't a "them", there is an "US". Religion, if you are faithful, is US, and US is the church, whichever you believe, if you believe. How people live their lives within that group is absolutely the right of the group to discuss and have opinions on, even when others within or without disagree with it. It isn't OUR or YOUR business if you are outside that group. CNN might be the one that should mind its own business.
I think the issues many have with the Church involvement in the gay marriage debate and Prop 8 specifically is lockstep with which the Mormons act. They not only vote essentially as a block but they act almost without question if the Brethren ask them to.
Is it right for Church's to wield so much power? Is it good for 15 men to have some much power? To say that
The reason the Brethren read the letter about not endorsing candidates in church is because in it's early years the Church got into all kinds of trouble by voting as a block. The Mormons were essentially run out of Missouri and Illinois because their use of manipulation by block voting made them 1) a threat and 2) hated.
I think in the case of Prop 8 they are again abusing their authority and manipulating the political process. To this point it appears that they legally can do so but it's not winning them any hearts and minds. I think it's clear certainly that the Church is not minding it's own business (religion) by invoking diving revelation in influencing it's members how to vote. At least that's what the public sentiment seems to be.
Brother Packer was giving a talk to the PEOPLE of the church, not the news. The talk was for the people of the church and in a church building. So why should anyone else have anthing to say about it?
Any defense of marriage by the Mormon Church rings hollow. Polygamy is still openly practiced but rarely prosecuted in Utah. In fact the District Attorney of Salt Lake City recently estimated that upto 10% of marriages in Utah are polygamous. The Mormons need to worry about the log in their own eye.
What imaginary thin air did you pull THAT figure out of? I have been part of the LDS church my whole life (almost 40 now) and have lived in 6 different states (including Utah) as an active member. I have NEVER heard of nor seen any LDS poygamous marriage. The church's official stance (enforced at the ward, stake and highest levels) is that anyone participating in such an arrangement would be excommunicated. And you say 10%? You're completely nuts. There are almost 3 million people in Utah! Are you trying to convince people that there are hundreds of thousands of polygamist marriages being kept secret in mainstream society? Utter nonsense. Go do some research, stop making up numbers, and come back and post when you are sober!
This information is wrong. 10% of marriages in Utah are polygamous? Absurd. Polygamy is practiced in one form or another in every state in the U.S. and it is not prosecuted. Also, Mormon's excommunicate anyone known to practice polygamy. It has been this way for over 100 years. The misinformation in this thread is appalling.
First, its not a secret. If you live in Utah, its a matter of watercooler chit chat who is in polygamous marriages and whose not. Second, the figure comes from the Utah Attorney General. The Attorney General's office has officially announced that they choose not to prosecute polygamy for a variety of reasons, including high cost, social impact, and, ironically, First Amendment Freedom of Religion.
If you think gay marriage is ok then why do you care about polygamy? Your argument makes no sense.
Polygamy has not been practiced in the LDS Church for well over 100 years. Those who practice it are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but are members of various fundamentalist groups that are not a part of nor members of the LDS Church.
Fundamentalist groups take portions of the original teachings and forget the rest (think fundamentalist Islam). Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints recognize and sustain their leaders as Prophets of God, called by God. They are not men who are paid to do this, nor do they seek these positions through their lives. But God calls them, and they answer.
huxley –
#1 – As I said, 10% is an absolutely absurd figure and only demonstrates your utter lack of knowledge on the subject. You also reveal your bias when you single out Utah. Again, polygamy is practiced in some form or another in every state in this country and I am not aware that it is prosecuted in any state.
#2 – If the Utah AG truly did give that figure (highly doubtful), please cite an authoritative source.
#3 – Was your 'water cooler chat' comment a joke? I hope so because I think it is getting a lot of laughs.
This is just silly. Even if this huckster's "10%" nonsense were even close to an accurate figure, what would you expect a church - any church for that matter - to do about it? The greatest authority any single church can have in a naturally pluralistic free society is that of excommunication - an authority the LDS Church has employed and continues to employ against any found to be practicing polygamy during roughly the last 100 years. Does the Pope set state policies for Italy? Does the Anglican Church determine who is and isn't prosecuted in England? This huckster's comments are an utter non sequitur.
God is imaginary.
That's exactly what I want you to think.
Actually, I want you to hate and descriminate in the name of that sissy all loving god. He sucks, and if I can trick you into hating others in his name, you'll all get to hang with me for eternity.
“Some suppose that they were preset and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and unnatural,” he said. “Not so! Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone?”
Indeed. It's almost impossible to imagine, given that we created the Man in our own image.
Clearly it is man that created god in his own image. Unfortunately, he did so about 3000 years ago, and therefore created a spiteful, jealous god that is also an ignoramous and a bigot. Use your brain, Dorothy.
It was not too long ago that certain Christian religions declared that interracial marriage was "un-natural". As a matter of fact, it was illegal in many states. We look back at this today, and it all seems so silly.
I suspect that someday we will do the same with gay marriage.
Son, if you think the public is in love with interracial marriage, you need to get out of the house more!
Nowayjose71 wrote: "Son, if you think the public is in love with interracial marriage, you need to get out of the house more!":::::Depends of your age. It’s very much a generational phenomenon. While 80 to 90 percent of people under age 30 say they find interracial marriages acceptable, that number falls to about 30 percent for those over 65. Almost 15% of marriages in 2008 were interracial. Think of 100 years ago when you couldn't mix anything, religion, race, etc. Laughable today. At least to most. Seems like YOU are the one who needs to get out more!
Why does anyone give the LDS any credibility? I believe all religions are ridiculous, but somehow more then the others, Mormonism just seems insane.