October 28th, 2010
12:26 PM ET
Ugandan anti-gay measure will be law soon, lawmaker says
The member of the Ugandan Parliament behind a controversial "anti-gay" bill that would call for stiff penalties against homosexuality - including life imprisonment and the death penalty - says that the bill will become law "soon."
"We are very confident," David Bahati told CNN, "because this is a piece of legislation that is needed in this country to protect the traditional family here in Africa, and also protect the future of our children."
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
Whenever its the gay issue- all you see is ignorant Christians holding tight to their prejudices- why is it so hard to find a christian these days espousing any principle that is christlike-I was raised in evangelical christianity- and still hold on to some great teachings- but division, non unity, non acceptance and certainly denial of the creative nature of God is NOT christ-like. The way Christians are behaviing these days, when they die and believe they go to the promised land- God may say, "But I did not know you" because they truly did not commit themselves to the example of christlike. Shameful for any person to think life imprisonment, shaming, or public humiliation is acceptable in any form.
males that are raunchy and stereotypically "think with their +++" don't want the same treatment directed towards them by other men as they direct toward females at least that seems the most probable to me....
This law will only keep prices high in the gay prostltute market. Very high.
Thumbs Up For Uganda
Don't think it's right though to be put to death, way too strict, just don't allow gay marriage. Sorry if I offend anyone else out there, just my personal belief and opinion.
kinectedgamer, No offense, you can believe whatever you like (as long as your actions don't interfere with the happiness of other law abiding, tax paying, military severing citizens). I am however, curious about something, why shouldn't a country allow gay marriage? How does gay marriage affect you, your marriage or your family?
You Said...... "Thumbs Up For Uganda"
ME--By already giving thumbs up... you are giving 'tacit' approval of their laws of putting gays to death, regardless of your attempt at a disclaimer below.
"Don't think it's right though to be put to death, way too strict, just don't allow gay marriage. Sorry if I offend anyone else out there, just my personal belief and opinion."
ME-–Laws are intended typically to stop anyone from 'harming' society. So, when you say it is just my personal belief and opinion, I would still ask you to 'justify' your personal belief and opinion.... Again, how specifically are you 'harmed' in any way by someone being gay....?
Please refrain from saying ..."the bible says so" or "Its just wrong" or.. "Its 'yucky'"
Within that framework, maybe we can have a substantive discussion, if you are able to come up with something rational and tangible, as I would love to see your response.
Otherwise, stop your negative unfounded position towards gays.
Peace2All, I guess he (nor anyone else) couldn't justify the unjustifiable.
Yep... but, you can certainly see from my posts to @Visitor, @Brad, @LKyleR, and @kinectedgamer.... they all gave it a good try.
I am tired of all of this 'hate' and 'fear-mongering' that they produce.
You said – "I am tired of all of this 'hate' and 'fear-mongering' that they produce."
And we're just tired of the LIES, anti-Christian HATE you spew and the filth you support.
"And we're just tired of the LIES, anti-Christian HATE you spew and the filth you support."
ME-Way to go on deflecting the argument above, as you don't have a position nor leg to stand on.
Good try though.... I guess you told me. LOL....
Let me correct you, yet again...... I, and the rest of my fellow posters here don't 'hate' christians. My wife and i have a number of christians for friends.
But, I do hate the kind of 'hate-mongering' that you and your 'brand' of christianity believe in that would want to kill someone because they are gay, or ... have them register as S. e . x. offenders.
That is subjective moral extremism. You, my friend are wrong.
Again, I would suggest that if you want to 'seriously' debate me, or any of my other friends who happen to see things my way, please feel free.
And... again, you didn't respond to the 'current' debate we had going. Please answer the questions up above. You never know, maybe you have a point in there somewhere that i had not thought of.
So you just admitted the only reason you come to TROLL on the Beliefs site, having and displaying no faith is to disrupt and debate. No moral or valuable purpose to gain though. Sad.
Also, I don't have to justify myself to you; only to God, and He will judge me. And if I'm wrong, I welcome His correction, though it might not be pleasant at times.
"So you just admitted the only reason you come to TROLL on the Beliefs site, having and displaying no faith is to disrupt and debate. No moral or valuable purpose to gain though. Sad."
ME--No, I didn't just admit 'anything.' Again, poor attempt. Also, you are assuming i have 'no faith.' I visit these 'belief' blogs to challenge people such as yourself, who make ridi-culous statements. Especially the kind that could get someone 'killed' because... of your beliefs and opinions. I would say that is an incredible 'moral' and 'valuable' calling. I also co-me here to learn about others thoughts and opinions. However, if you aren't prepared to be challenged on your thoughts, then this is probably not the right place for you. What makes you think you get a free-pass when you say something, especially something as asinine as your views are, and not get questioned and debated on...?
As for being a TROLL.... I see you must be new here to the 'belief' blogs. I have been posting along with my friends and others since the beginning. I don't recall seeing you posting before. (Unless you changed your name). So, you, my friend, especially given your insane comments... are the real TROLL.
So, I am seeing a pattern in your responses. Since you have no leg to stand on and can't make any kind of rational or reasonable assertion, I will assume that your points are groundless, hate-mongering, and ignorant.... NOT to be taken seriously.
"Also, I don't have to justify myself to you; only to God, and He will judge me. And if I'm wrong, I welcome His correction, though it might not be pleasant at times."
ME- Well, maybe... God is giving you a 'wake-up' call now, before it's too late, when you have to be 'judged' by God. I mean @Visitor.... What do ya' think God is going to say to you, when you pass on....... "Great job @Visitor on the Gay hatred thing. Because, that was surely my message. You know how many people got bullied and killed because of you and people of your ilk with those beliefs and opinions...? That was my son Jesus' message too.... Great job...!"
@Visitor.... You're up... or, we can end it here and leave it be.. Your call if you want to continue...?
@ Peace2All Gays could end humanity, a man + a man= no kids which means a decline of population, eventually causing over a thousand or so years the decline of the human race.
@ JohnQuest Doesn't hurt my family at all, I'm fine with all them dating and all that, but I just think it's a little far to get married.
You Said..........."@ Peace2All, Gays could end humanity, a man + a man= no kids which means a decline of population, eventually causing over a thousand or so years the decline of the human race."
True.... I suppose, if gays and lesbians become all there is. However, do you 'really' believe by allowing gays/lesbians to just be o.k, and have their relationships, that they are somehow over a thousand years going to cause 'any' kind of a fall of 'heteros-e-x-uality' and reproduction....? Really...?
You know, gay/lesbian s-e-x and relationships have been around pretty much forever. And it just seems like the population on planet Earth is growing. What is it now... about 7 billion give or take......?
Maybe....@kinectedgamer, you may want to just possibly reconsider your argument...?
Just a thought...
@ Peace2All I'm fine with them having their "relationships", just don't like the idea of them getting married. It would just bring a major impact say if half the Americans were gay over a long period of time, sure it might solve a few problems with the decline from the billions, but in the end it......you should join speech & debate my friend, just my opinion they shouldn't allow gay marriage, they can have their relationships all they want, just my belief about it, I respect your beliefs as long as you respect mine.
"We are very confident," David Bahati told CNN, "because this is a piece of legislation that is needed in this country to protect the traditional family here in Africa, and also protect the future of our children."
For a second there, I thought this was a member of the Teabag Party.
If you don't want something like this to happen in the U.S., vote for the Dems in November. The Christian Right has no business ruling our nation.
Speak it brother...!!!
visitor, I think ignorant people should have to register.
You're going to register all the believers? LOL
America, take a good look. That's you if the tea baggers win.
Bless you for your wise words!
@Amalia Sheran Sharm
Yes, just take a look at the posting above by @Visitor.
We might not agree, but it is their country. I for one think they should be registered, the same as child molesters.
Would you have said that of Germany in 1938?
I came to simply offer a statement and point of view, not to argue with narrow-minded blind liberal idiots.
You Said........ "We might not agree, but it is their country. I for one think they should be registered, the same as child molesters."
What the F-u-c-k are you even talking about....? They should be registered...? 'Why'...? Oh, yeah... because 'gay' people=child molesters. Right...! See, that is why when the fundamentalists claim or, even if you are non-religious, the.... 'we have nothing to do with the bullying, bashing, and now killing of gay's.
People like you@visitor are the one's that are contributing to the further hatred and violence towards gays.
You Also Said.....to @Nomas........
"I came to simply offer a statement and point of view, not to argue with narrow-minded blind liberal idiots."
You didn't come to 'simply offer a statement and point of view'- you make yourself sound so neutral and harmless. The rest of your post.. about 'not to argue with narrow-minded blind liberal idiots.'
Well, that pretty much says it all about you doesn't it.
Yes, of course you certainly have the right of free speech. And, the rest of us do as well, to 'call' you on your ignorant, bigoted hatred of 'gays.' You opening line of 'We might not agree, but it is their country.' That pretty much says you are giving 'tacit' approval to kill gays, especially given the rest of you posting.
Maybe I'm wrong here about who you are and your insidious intentions.. but I don't think so.
You're right, my comparison with child molesters is wrong. Let me rephrase my comment. The act should be made illegal, as it once was in this country (the USA), and all who CHOOSE to practice it be "Registered S.e.x. Offenders". Why, because your CHOICE of deviant lifestyle practices is OFFENSIVE, and WRONG.
Also, I don't worry about you and your kind being around my kids because you'll molest them, but rather that you'll teach your lifestyle to them and plant the seed of perversion in their minds.
As for your fear of conservatives, how about reconsider that it's a fear of God. And if people feared Him more, and added to that fear the respect He deserves, we wouldn't be having this filthy discussion.
You Said--–@ Peace2All
"You're right, my comparison with child molesters is wrong. Let me rephrase my comment. The act should be made illegal, as it once was in this country (the USA), and all who CHOOSE to practice it be "Registered S.e.x. Offenders". Why, because your CHOICE of deviant lifestyle practices is OFFENSIVE, and WRONG."
ME--First, let me just clear one of your misconceptions here-- I am married to a wonderful woman. So to assume that anyone who thinks your view is asinine is gay, you are wrong.
The whole issue about making laws against something typically comes down to... is someone being harmed...? When you say a gay lifestyle is "OFFENSIVE and WRONG,"
My question to you radical christian religious right wing nut jobs is.... How specifically, are gays, by living their lives, 'harming' you...? Being 'offensive' is typically not a good argument as far as law, otherwise, I would attempt to make laws that make radicalized ignorant christian zealots such as you, as 'hate' groups. But, I can't because, just because you 'offend' the majority of people that are not like you, we can't make a law around it. Because..... there is 'no' harm, in you being an idiot.
You know my ignorant christian zealot... slavery used to be o.k, women's rights were squashed, etc.... all because the bible said it was o.k. Should we go back and reinstate laws for slavery...? Ya' know.... Your God was all about the slaves...!
Your other comment....being 'wrong' is a subjective statement, and is also not typically something that is going to go into law. Again, you would have to demonstrate and show proof, that your 'subjective' view point of ... "gays are "WRONG".... again, you would have to show how your claim of 'wrongness' is somehow 'harming' you. Just because you don't like it, or even don't agree with it, is not just cause to 'hate' and create laws against your fellow humans.
"Also, I don't worry about you and your kind being around my kids because you'll molest them, but rather that you'll teach your lifestyle to them and plant the seed of perversion in their minds.
As for your fear of conservatives, how about reconsider that it's a fear of God. And if people feared Him more, and added to that fear the respect He deserves, we wouldn't be having this filthy discussion."
ME--–The rest of your assertions are just pure fear and hate-mongering and showing ignorance beyond belief. You are a radical christian fundamentalist zealot... I am thanking your God, that most people don't agree nor act like you.
You are offensive and wrong.... and should be ashamed to pass on 'hate' and 'fear' as you are doing.
What I find so sickening, is that people will be imprisoned and killed in the name of a god they have no proof exists. The Christians have gone mad.
Your not alone in your quest of acceptance. Christians are imprisoned in many countries for their belief...and what do you care? You beg for compassion and acceptance of your being gay, but your ignorant and intolerant of the views of Christians. Nice! BTW, where is your proof that God doesn't exist?
Brad brings up a good point. It seems that (at least from a mass media perspective) that the only acceptable hate speech is hate speech againt Christianity
Brad and LKyleR, no one should be locked up for a thought crime or a "victimless crime". Although I believe the world would be better without religion, no one should be arrested for believing the unbelievable. I do think however, if the US was run by a "gang" of Christian fundamentalist we would have the same stupid laws.
@Brad & @LKyleR
I agree with what @JohnQuest wrote... and I want to add to it. I am kinda' shocked that given the topic of the article.."ugandan anti-gay measure will be law soon"-which means gays will be 'put to death.'
This is 'insanity' and maybe I am missing something here in your posts, but you guys are going off on a tangent that has really nothing to do with the 'real atrocities being committed in the name of Jesus Christ.
They are going to 'kill' these people for what...?
Excuse my 'anger' here, but it just seemed like you guys were basically not even addressing what the topic of the article.. Christians in Uganda=killing gay people. My take was you guys were going on about all of the 'poor christians' and what they have to put up with.
If I am somehow misunderstanding your take on this or your intention...my apologies.
However, if not, you might want to take a look around outside your ethnocentric christian views.
"What is your proof that God doesn't exist?"
An unfailing sign that you're dealing with an absolute idiot.
Sorry Brad, I'm not gay. Been married to the same woman for 30 years. I am for gay rights 100%. I am also for women having a choice.
The Christians have a choice. They chose to be Christian. I think with help, they can lose this disgusting habit.
No, I really don't cry when Christians are locked up in countries that have told them not to proselytize.
@ David Johnson So you find that being a Christian a disgusting habit, but two men sleeping together not disgusting? There is obviously something wrong with this world today.
I don't see anyone decrying China, Saudi Arabi or Iran for their imprisionment of Christians.
See the following from Amnesty International.
@Reality – thanks for sharing.
Being gay is not a choice. Being a christian, believing in childish supernatural myths, is a choice. I think death or imprisonment is way too harsh but I do hope for the day when believing in invisible beings is in the book of phsyciatric disorders, and that beleivers are ashamed to admit they are believers in public.
The death penalty... the DEATH PENALTY?!... is "necessary to protect the traditional Ugandan family?!" If the "traditional Ugandan family" is so hard up that you need to kill people to get them to go along with it, then nothing really can save the insti-tution. But it seems more likely that the "traditional family" argument is just a smokescreen to get more people to stand aside who otherwise wouldn't while he kills the people he hates.
Shut down all Ugandan embassies and diplomatic posts worldwide. Nonviolent action to make it impossible for Ugandan government representatives to show their faces or do business anywhere. Make them pay an exorbitant price every day for passing laws with no purpose but to oppress and that enable genocide.
Unfortunately, it will have no effect on the Ugandan government, they are Christian fundamentalist, God is on their side. They have no problems with the people they are suppose to care starving to death. Besides the people passing this ridiculous law have stolen millions, consequently, sanctions will have no effect.
I saw an interview where Ugandans stated the being gay is against the law, I can't seem to figure out what or who the law is intended to protect? Presumably a law written and enforced has a legitimate purpose, other than stated sanctioned discrimination.
Uganda was founded on Christian principals. I wonder why they turned out so crappy and the USA turned out so great. Maybe the foundation of Christian values has no real effect while things like natural resources, sufficent food and technology do.
High five to you.
I don't think that the U.S. turning out so great was necessarily due to 'christian principles.'
You can see it obviously in Uganda, as well as here in the U.S., where these so-called 'christian principles' lead us to.
Sure, the basics of life.. clean air, water, food, etc... are extremely important. However, even countries over the centuries that have that still create 'atrocities' in the name of 'Christ.'
Ooops... 'my bad'...I believe that I interpreted your posting inaccurately. I thought....that doesn't sound like something Megatron would post.
Then, re-read it again... Yes, as per Luke..."High Five" for you.
This is absolutely outrageous...!!!!!! This crazy and insane backwards fundamentalist evangelical christian zealot Country.. Uganda....!!!!!
And wow.... what a shocker.... The country of Uganda is a majority 'Christian' country. And you fundies wonder why some of us are scared of you c-o-m-i-n-g into 'any' kind of political power position. Your atrocious world-views and thoughts about gays, are extremely telling. I know(not 'all' of you fundies believe in harming gays), but it seems that the majority of you are very much against gays.... Who are 'doing' NO harm to you nor anyone.
But, this could 'never' happen here in the U.S... yeah.. right...
Well said, bro. Uganda is not a good place. We don't want anything like that around here. The Tea Party can go to hell.
Pathetic to say that American right-wing fundamentalists traveled to Uganda and help to draft this law... Jesus would be so proud.
There is no hell, or heaven. The Tea Baggers can go to Uganda!
Yah, both of them make no sense and so can not exist as such. If only we could deport the Tea-baggers! Ah, that would be like cleaning house – at least a beginning, anyway....!
I was waiting to see if I got a response elsewhere, but this is going to be my last post for now.
I'm always glad to see you guys show up in the mornings. I'd hate for any fundies to think they could get away with their rabid lies and delusions...! ttfn...I'm gonna crash.
For all the citizens of the world especially those in Uganda:
o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice. "
"Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
Wouldn't these finding be contrary to evoluationary theory? Wouldn't these traits be weeded out over the course of millions of years? What about identical twins (same exact DNA make-up) one is gay the other not. Wouldn't one be a product of choice either way?
Evolution and genetic mutation does not guarantee that certain traits will disappear forever. If I was cruel, I would use believers as an example – everything tells me that believers should be extinct, and in many parts of the world that is the trend, but for some strange reason the USA continues to breed 'em.