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November 21st, 2010
08:49 AM ET

Afghan Christian faces trial for alleged conversion from Islam

From Matiullah Mati for CNN:

An Afghan Christian, detained for months for allegedly converting to Christianity from Islam, could face trial as early as next week - and could face a potential death penalty, officials said Sunday.

Said Musa was arrested by Afghan Interior Ministry intelligence authorities near the German Embassy in Kabul because of the allegations, said Qamaruddin Shenwari, director of the Kabul courts' north zone. The exact date of his arrest is not known.

The case against Musa has not yet been finalized, said Mohammad Najim Hamidi, director of public security at Zone 3 of the Kabul courts. He could face trial next week if the case is prepared by then, Hamidi said. It was earlier thought Musa's trial would begin on Sunday.

The Afghan Constitution does not mention converting from one religion to another, so the judge will take Islamic law into account, officials said.

"According to Afghanistan's constitution, if there is no clear verdict as to whether an act is criminal or not in the penal code of the Afghan Constitution, then it would be referred to sharia law where the judge has an open hand in reaching a verdict," Shenwari said.

Under sharia law, converting from Islam to Christianity is punishable by death.

It was not immediately clear where Musa was being held and whether he has access to his attorney or relatives.

The U.S. State Department said last week in its annual International Religious Freedom Report that "respect for religious freedom" decreased in Afghanistan in the last year, "particularly toward Christian groups and individuals."

Christians, Hindus and Sikhs - as well as Muslims whose practices don't satisfy the government or society - suffer "intolerance in the form of harassment, occasional violence, discrimination and inflammatory public statements," the report said. It estimated the Afghan Christian community ranges from 500 to 8,000 people.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Afghanistan • Christianity • Islam

soundoff (669 Responses)
  1. Paul

    this is what our troops are dying for?

    November 21, 2010 at 9:28 am |
  2. JEM

    Coming from a country that locks more of its citizens for more reasons than any country on earth, I find little room to criticize the uncivilized acts if Islam. How can I find fault with putting a death sentence on apostasy when in my country a there are people getting forcefully sodomized, beaten or shanked for marijuana.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:27 am |
    • realtoreal

      Islam appears to be a cult. It seems some people take it's literal translation from the dark ages, and some have changed it some what, however the fact we hear about this religion and people of high authority in this religion and or connected to government passing on these abusive, archaic and cult like beliefts, ie the punishment for quitting Islam, divorcing, adultary, etc and worse, carrying out the orders of punishment, most recently the issue of stoning has come up, then this is something we should all fear and do our best to put an end to. In America these laws are not and will never be supported. This is illegal, anyone carrying out these acts of abuse would be charged, there would be serious penalties. This is very serious and we need to work to put an end to this abuse!

      November 21, 2010 at 10:14 am |
    • Nimrod

      One reason the countries in the muslim part of the world have a smaller percentage of their citizens in prison is because they have many more capital offenses and simply kill the perpetrators. For lesser infractions, they don't imprison you, they simply whip you until the skin peels off your back, or perhaps chop off some part of your anatomy (hand, foot, ear, nose). Sometimes they blind you. Those techniques reduce the prison population pretty effectively and also serve as a very strong deterrent. Unfortunately the western world has determined such punishment to be cruel and unusual. Would you smoke a joint or steal, sixpack of beer, youse the Lord's name in vain, or sleep with another man's wife if you would face such repercussions?

      November 21, 2010 at 10:59 am |
    • Nimrod

      Before anyone jumps on it, clearly the word is use. Not sure how the yo got there.

      November 21, 2010 at 11:10 am |
  3. 5t1v

    If after everything we have been through in the past 8 years Afghanistan courts still wanr to use Saria Law, then we have wasted our time there and should take out as many taliban as possible before we leave.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:27 am |
  4. JRH

    I'm not Muslim – just for the record. I'm a WASP American. This type of thing does NOT represent the *vast* majority of Muslims in the world. It represents the view of a tiny fraction of a percent in one of the most radically fanatical Muslim countries on earth. Anyone who thinks "eradicating" anything is just asking to live in an endless state of war from now until eternity. Islam has been around for 1300 years, and isn't going away. It's like the "war" on anything else (drugs, poverty, cancer) – it is doomed to failure by its very nature. That said, I'm not in favor of continuing to pour American dollars and sacrificing American lives in Afghanistan. It's revolting.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:27 am |
    • RightWingMark

      No – not the vast majority of the 1.8 B muslims in the world but:
      1. what % do subscribe to this kind of just – take a guess at a real small percentage – how about 0.1% – only 1,800,000 muslims worldwide – of course this is just a small amout, and,
      2. what % would not necessarily punish this person by death but would be ambivalent to somebody else doing it – how about we say 1% of muslims – only 18,000,000.

      small problem? Stop spinning dude.
      RWM

      November 21, 2010 at 9:59 am |
    • Paul

      Yes, a small fraction, including the judge who will sentence these poor converts to death for not believing in Islam.

      November 21, 2010 at 10:01 am |
  5. Paul

    When will people finally realize that this dangerous fiction we call 'religion' is hampering our evolution as a species? I'm ashamed to be part of a species in which the majority allows injustices like this to occur. We must no longer sit idly by and allow atrocities such as murder, pedophilia, brainwashing of children and segregation to continue. It is time for atheists and agnostics to rise and fight back against the growing oppression of religious fanaticism. Instead of thanking the rational minded scientific community for bringing us out of the dark ages with incredible discoveries, these brainwashed ingoramuses continue to cower behind the veil of god, using it as a vice grip for their own power and control. If you want to kill someone, kill yourselves...and do without blowing any innocent people in the process.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:27 am |
    • Charles

      +1. For the powerful and clever, religion is a useful tool to subjugate the ignorant and the gullible.

      November 21, 2010 at 10:45 am |
    • Rodger

      Hi Paul – and those who reject religion: You have a religion, just as all people do – your god is chance. Christianity has often been incongruent. So are those who champion Islam, and most other "religions" The Koran does seem to echo some passages of the Old Testament – the reasons for what they did are too complex for this short note. Jesus Christ came and said "A new commandment I give to your "Love as I have loved you." (Instead of killing you, I will give up ky life to protect you.) That commandment superceeds all of the OT. The OT is retainedf as history – and the 10 commandments reflect the law of love.

      Personally and on a political arguement, I would tell the Afgans in the US that either Aftanastan permits religious liberty or they are to go back there. It is their rule that we are going to use here in the US. That should be "fair". If they prehibit CHristianity, than we prohibit Islam. If they want out dollars, it is not a religious issue, but a political trade off.

      November 21, 2010 at 4:11 pm |
  6. carlos

    Bring on Crusades II:The Sequel

    November 21, 2010 at 9:27 am |
    • RightWingMark

      Excellent idea!!! The Crusades II – Turning sand into glass.

      November 21, 2010 at 9:51 am |
    • Eve

      It has already begun...it's called the Iraqi and Afghani War.

      November 21, 2010 at 12:20 pm |
  7. kerroni

    I've got an idea, why not stay over there and train them all to be better soldiers and give them money and weapons which are all up to date, give them computers and train them to write code and viruses, trojans and all the tools to eavesdrop and spy on us and then leave them like that, go home and wait to see what happens next?

    November 21, 2010 at 9:26 am |
    • Charles

      I think you fail to understand the goal of bringing the entire world's standard-of-living up to that of the West. Education and quality of life do more to deter terrorism and other terrible acts more than any army in the world.

      November 21, 2010 at 10:41 am |
    • K

      Charles
      So we're going to have smarter and better educated terrorists? We need to change their mindset; way of thinking.

      November 21, 2010 at 1:16 pm |
    • Hallux

      You know what? In the old days, we'd just bomb them. This notion of helping and training them dates to the change in philosophy in our country, that we're fighting an enemy government, not an enemy people. If you have a problem with our troops trying to bring them along, educate them, provide them an environment in which it is possible to have schools and eventually an urbane and educated populace which values life over adherence to an outmoded code of morality based upon myths and lies, perhaps you should run for public office, and from that position, change our national policy from 'educate them' back to the older, venerated 'kill them' policy.

      At some point, someone in our country figured out that the people are human beings, who when given an education with which to evaluate rationally, the merit, or lack thereof, of a system of governance and body of laws, will chose a humane one, which does not call for the murder of ANYONE, nor the making of wars upon their fellow men, neighboring countries, etc., and that to achieve this end, we should do what is needed to facilitate education. But some people, judging from reading the posts here, would rather just kill them. Guess that's the easier way out. Fortunately for them, our elect are a little more enlightened than that.

      Unfortunately for all involved, as effective as our MILITARY efforts might be, the side of it which is supposed to be making sure that while we're there, that schools are being built, and peace is being kept, and an environment is being fostered in which education can occur, is like trying to build a schoolhouse out of mashed potatoes. Delicious as it might be, it won't stand up, or stay that way.

      Also, for all of you who wonder, we've been there like, almost ten years... how long do you think it should take to educate an entire populace? If we went in and built schools and then turned around and left, the schools would not be used, and if we managed to get to Afghanistan in October 2001, and build schools everywhere in a single day, (which was way quicker than it actually happened) stayed until today, then left tomorrow, (November 2010), that only allows children who were between about five and ten years old 9 years of school, at most. But there weren't schools the day after we arrived, and there weren't teachers to teach them all the day we showed up, and all the money we've poured into that has NOT gone to helping them, a lot of it made a U-turn at the Afghan border, and wound up in the pockets of contractors in the US who have, in many cases, failed to do what they were paid for, (for which they should be prosecuted, but that's beside the point,) so of course their country is not ready, as of right now, an idyllic, cultured, educated paradise filled with intelligentsia who will never again allow their land to be controlled by a system that looks and smells like feudalism, enforced by the fear of religion, and religious law.

      It takes longer than that.

      Yes, bombing and killing them is faster, and would be cheaper, but someone in our country got the crazy idea that if we're willing to spend more time and effort, the bombing and killing of their people (whose only real crime is not being fortunate enough to have been born in an enlightened and civilized country as many of us style ours is) is unnecessary, and we'd be barbarians if we just defaulted to that option when others were available.

      That's why we're there, and it takes time. The alternative is to pull out, and let things relapse. Let them go back to the way they were, and then, I guess, eventually, when their country is used as a base of operations and training for extremist wackos, bomb them again. But who knows, if we don't value human life, maybe killing them all to stop them from being uneducated would be more expeditious and less expensive. By the same logic though, rather than building and maintaining schools for our own people, maybe we should just eliminate them too, and then when, being uneducated, untrained, and most likely unskilled, they misbehave, (committing crimes as a means to the end of achieving the goal of having what they want or need, food, water and shelter,) we should just kill them too. Again, quicker and cheaper than schools. Why is there a difference? Is it racial? Do we care about our people because we think they're inherently BETTER than the people "over there"? Or is it that our people are better because they're our people. Or is it that we think Americans are better and more (or "the most," to be precise) worthy because as we're Americans, it is in our own individual and collective best interest to regard Americans first, as we're individually members of that group? But shouldn't that logic extend to all human beings?

      Shouldn't we hold that human lives are valuable, wherever they are, because of our naked and unashamed self-interest, as human beings, in the highest possible valuation of human life? If all humans are valuable, by extension, we are. If they are not, because of some triviality of where they live, then where one lives is therefore also trivial, meaning there is no reason we're more valuable than they are, certainly not by reason of geography.

      Because of this radical notion that Afghans are human beings, despite their living in Afghanistan, the prevalence of the religion of Islam, their speaking of a language other than English, their lack of general education, we are trying to help lift them, as a people, and bring them into the modern age, rather than take the easy way out, of killing them. Any questions?

      November 21, 2010 at 5:57 pm |
  8. Conch

    You face the same fate in Christianity if you don't convert or accept Christ as your savior. Your name is not written in the Book of Life and you are unsaved. Unsaved=dead.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:24 am |
    • Stan

      Yes the boggie man is going to get us

      November 21, 2010 at 9:47 am |
    • RightWingMark

      Spirtually dead, NOT literally dead as the Hadith require under Sharia law. Stop the spinning my friend.

      November 21, 2010 at 9:49 am |
    • K

      How do you come up with the correlation of not going to heaven if you don’t believe in Christianity to being killed if you are not Muslim or wish to convert from the Muslim religion as the Muslim radicals would believe? I don’t currently see any Christians wanting to kill those that don’t believe in Christianity or those that wish convert to another religion.

      November 21, 2010 at 1:10 pm |
    • Hallux

      Conch, that's not really the same thing. If people don't believe that the Christian "Book" contains anything more than a funny, often obscene historical fiction, then they probably aren't the least little bit worried about whether or not their names are inscribed in the "Book of Life" of whatever it's called, as people who aren't Christians may very well not believe there are any magic fairies (or angels or gods or whatever) to inscribe their names in said book, so they will have no fear of imaginary punishments for not believing in the so-called truth of Christian mythology. This is very different, for them, from being killed in REAL LIFE, over refusal to profess believing in fairies, ghosts, goblins, gods, etc.

      All religions differ from cults only in how widely accepted they are. There is no other feature distinguishing them.

      November 21, 2010 at 5:17 pm |
  9. DMcK

    As much as I keep pointing out to people that 'peace' in Islam means AFTER THEY'VE KILLED OR CONVERTED ALL OTHERS.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:23 am |
    • Brian Macker

      Why is that surprising? The word Islam does not translate as peace. It literally means submission.

      November 21, 2010 at 9:34 am |
    • Charles

      Just like Christianity did in Europe during the Dark Ages. Why did Christianity gain a foothold in Europe? Because the Roman Catholic Church, with financial backing from the failing Roman Empire, convinced pagan warlords that the only way they could conquer the world was with the Church's assistance. These warlords then converted to Christianity and offered everyone in Europe a choice: convert or die. Tens of thousands of pagans who refused to convert were massacred; the rest took up the new religion. So, don't look askance at Islam like it's unique in its bloody, horrible history...Christianity is just as guilty.

      November 21, 2010 at 10:39 am |
    • K_a_m_R_a_n

      Brian, It means submission to god

      November 21, 2010 at 10:42 am |
    • K

      Why should we tollerate those that would do us under?

      November 21, 2010 at 12:56 pm |
  10. JEM

    The mosque in NY should have been allowed because that is an issue of respecting property rights.

    That said, it is very alarming that there are enough people wanting to follow this "Religion" that any
    mosques are necessary

    November 21, 2010 at 9:23 am |
    • Matthew

      Well,

      Whether or not the mosque should be allowed is not so clear. There are restriction on everything everywhere. Churches and mosques can't just be built on a whim because someone wants to do it. The city has a board and has to approve it. Cripes fast food restaurants can't be even built in areas with out prior approval. Homes and various projects always have to be approved. They have councils and citizens are allowed to voice their opposition to it. Just because the citizens do not want a mosque there big deal. It was an all muslim area they would have it with out a doubt. But it is up the citizens to agree or not. Developers always face the boards and spends tons of money on research to prove this or that will be good for the community and the local economy. Let the people decide what is best for their area and that should be the end of it.

      November 21, 2010 at 7:00 pm |
  11. Kevin

    Seriously, the dark ages. Funny story two days ago that 92% of Afghans (survey was in the southern provinces) have NEVER HEARD OF 9/11. Some of them were probably lying when they took the survey, BUT, wouldn't you be mad if someone was in your country for no reason? This is how we are actively creating Al Qaeda. Number one goal of ours should be to try and bring them out of the dark ages. It's pretty hard to train an Army when only 20% of them can read. Think about even just trying to get acountability of weapons, memorizing rifle serial numbers. Whatever. I could go on for about 6,000 more words. I'm done, this is ridiculous.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:22 am |
    • Wzrd1

      Wow! Sounds JUST like the US Army in the 1800's! Illiteracy was the norm.
      As for weapon serial numbers, why memorize them when one can mark the stock? As was done by MANY military organizations throughout the world?
      Just as ignorance of 9/11 and illiteracy, all you've shown is that education can win this war for us. Not necessarily teaching the entire populace how to read, but at least educating the populace as to WHY we are there and educating the children, so the next generation can actually READ their own Quran, rather than be told that it says certain things that aren't there.
      Some years before 9/11, Saudi sent Islamic scholars to attempt to educate the villages in Afghanistan. They started with teaching the villagers how to read and what the Quran ACTUALLY says.
      They were chased from the country in fear for their lives by tribal leaders, some of whom became the Taliban. Control knowledge, control the populace.

      November 21, 2010 at 12:03 pm |
  12. George

    The war between Islam and the civilized world, and that is exactly what is taking place no matter how often our politicians say otherwise, this war is the war to end all wars. It is the final battle between good and evil that so many religious nuts talk about.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:22 am |
    • Gay Muslim Warlock

      George, you're leaving out the truth behind the final end. The FE is when Gay Muslim Warlocks will convert the rest of the world into Boy Toys with super sharp clothes. We, in the ned will rule.

      November 21, 2010 at 5:27 pm |
    • A muslim

      There are sociopaths like you, and decent hardworking folk like most of America. If you try and hurt my loved ones, I won't hesitate to put you down.

      November 21, 2010 at 5:50 pm |
    • Reallyist

      To "A Muslim". Muslims are cowards. You just proved it.

      November 21, 2010 at 6:06 pm |
    • A muslim

      @ Reallyist. Yes, by identifying myself when surrounded by hateful and bigoted men. You are a coward, you have only your insecurities that feed your anger. I'm glad I've been blessed with such a good life, and that evil men like you will rott in Hell.

      In fact, if there is no afterlife, I'm still grateful for every moment of my existence. It's a shame you won't join me.

      November 21, 2010 at 7:01 pm |
    • mohammy

      i hope a muslim is trolling. i cant honestly believe any one who believes in any kind of hell would enjoy the thought of another going there.

      November 22, 2010 at 1:10 am |
  13. George

    Everyone needs to pressure their legislators in Washington to end Islamic immigration into the U.S. as a necessary war measure.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:21 am |
    • RightWingMark

      Simple, to the point and spot on George!
      Mark

      November 21, 2010 at 9:46 am |
    • JustHuman51

      Fred Phelps is just waiting for both of you at the Westboro Baptist Church. That's where you definitely belong.

      November 21, 2010 at 10:17 am |
    • Charles

      Thanks for reminding us that the wisdom of "one person, one vote" has its limits.

      November 21, 2010 at 10:35 am |
    • realtoreal

      I agree. There needs to be a stop or slow down of people from the middle east migrating. It's too difficult and would take too much manpower to figure out about those coming from various middle eastern countries, independently who's ideologies and beliefs match the radical beliefs that support all of this abuse, or could possibly one day fall in line with them. Some of these people may try to trick us into believing they don't subsribe to these radical theories. Let the middle eastern people live in their own lands and keep a lid on how many of them travel here, or live here. You don't see non Muslim North American's or Brits or Aussies running out of their countries to take up residence in these countries – unless they're on a mission of helping feed, educate the poor, etc. Yet we embrace everyone who comes to us. I think we've been too easy feasy a place or them to get lost in and escape to. Time to end their using us. Collectively all countries need to keep watch on these radical countries and their leaders, as some of their leaders also subsribe to these religions.

      November 21, 2010 at 10:36 am |
    • Wzrd1

      George, what is to be the authorized religion in the country then?
      Do YOU assign it or does the government?
      As you've just proposed rescinding the very FIRST amendment. Over some silliness in Afghanistan!

      November 21, 2010 at 11:59 am |
    • K

      Look at what is happening in Tennessee and all around our country.

      November 21, 2010 at 12:49 pm |
    • .308

      If the legislators do not respond, the people will. And events like in Tennessee will become common place. And the response will worsen and we'll have our domestic terrorism. Then we'll have our domestic unrest. And eventually our domestic war.

      To which I say – bring it on! Why wait! Let's finish this now! Why prolong the inevitable? Lock-n-Load!

      November 21, 2010 at 4:22 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @.308

      You Said:--"If the legislators do not respond, the people will. And events like in Tennessee will become common place. And the response will worsen and we'll have our domestic terrorism. Then we'll have our domestic unrest. And eventually our domestic war.

      To which I say – bring it on! Why wait! Let's finish this now! Why prolong the inevitable? Lock-n-Load!"

      You are kidding right...? Christ, and to think I spent any time in discussion with you. What a waste of time. You are an idiot. 'Lock-n-Load!' Really...? For what...?

      Yep, you might want to re-visit your buddy Adolph's philosophies.

      You just proved the whole thing. Yes... Christians v. Muslims. Bring on the war-mongering now. Wow...! You were so full of cr@p in your other arguments.... just pathetic.

      November 22, 2010 at 3:02 am |
    • .308

      @Peace2All

      The time stamp on your message says 3 AM. I guess your critical reasoning skills pretty much evaporate that early in the morning, huh?

      First you don't understand the concept of propaganda... Now you can't even recognize sarcasm. Every time you "open your mouth" it seems that your age regresses another year. Please tell me you're not cross-posting as "Zoey?"

      November 22, 2010 at 11:11 am |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      Sorry, I forgot – In an effort to "identify" with you...

      ------------–
      Wow! You're Just Like Hitler, Too! Wow!
      *snaps gum*
      *twirls hair*
      -------------
      How's that for 'common ground'? Did you apply to get on the debate team yet?

      November 22, 2010 at 11:15 am |
    • .308

      (( period))

      There 'ya go. I ended the argument with one of your "periods."

      November 22, 2010 at 11:23 am |
  14. Jim Bob

    Barbarians.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:19 am |
    • Gendor Mon

      We're shredding innocent men, women and children with powerful bombs and weaponry, and you call them barbarians?

      November 21, 2010 at 5:42 pm |
    • mon

      that's what happens in war you moron. and, might i remind you, it was our innocent people who were killed- and that's why we're in afganistan. wlecome to planet earth.

      "war is the story of the human race."- winston churchill

      November 21, 2010 at 8:26 pm |
  15. George

    Ok, so under Sharia law converting to another religion is punishable by death. Now, someone please tell me why our government, as represented by the President, accepts this cult as a religion. It sounds more like a organized criminal enterprise.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:18 am |
    • Katherine

      That would be a great question for the bush administration, George, considering that the bush administration took us into Afghanistan to begin with and left a virtual minefield of a mess for the Obama Administration to traverse.

      November 21, 2010 at 9:49 am |
    • David Blackburn

      Let's not blame the President. Even Bush and Republican presidents have called Isalm a religion, George!

      November 21, 2010 at 10:13 am |
    • JustHuman51

      Hello George: Exactly how did we end up fighting two wars? I'm not a math major but I can count back far enough to know that OBAMA DID NOT START THESE WARS? He's left with the clogged toilets and no plunger from the EIGHT YEARS of Bush/Cheney "leadership".

      November 21, 2010 at 10:13 am |
    • Wzrd1

      How about THIS cult, that orders the same thing?

      If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

      Deuteronomy 13: 6-9

      "And has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones."

      Deuteronomy 17:3-5

      12 ...the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.
      (Deut)

      So as you can see, the punishment of apostasy in Christianity is DEATH, and not only that, the one who tries to convert you is also to be put the death. Even whole cities are to be destroyed!

      Therefore, Christians are the last one to talk about the punishment of apostasy, since the punishment for apostasy according to the Bible is DEATH.

      November 21, 2010 at 11:57 am |
    • Peter

      Wzrd1, how convenient to twist things in Christianity to justify the injustice of another religion. There is a lack of honesty and fairness in your posting. In this time and age, when compared to Islam, since when has Christians kill another human for worshiping another god? Please provide evidence of that. Jesus says to love your enemies. That says more than other other verse in the Bible in relation to humans relating to other humans. Have you thought about quoting that?

      November 21, 2010 at 1:13 pm |
    • Wzrd1

      Peter, are you saying that the verses I quoted were never utilized as a tool for oppression?
      Are you saying that love one another overrides ALL of the old testament?
      It was actually intended to be a supplement TO the old testament, hence the reason the old testament was included in the bible.
      My actual point was that such IS part of the teachings of our faint, hence can and has been abused to cause the death of others, just as this nonsense in Afghanistan.
      In short, in some parts of the world, Islam is going through their own version of our dark ages.
      The difference being that technology has shrunk the world and accelerated social development. Hence, THEIR dark ages won't last very long.
      But, at least YOU read and responded. 🙂
      I personally follow the platinum rule, treat others as I wish to be treated. Note that I didn't call it golden, it's FAR more valuable. I suspect THAT is the main reason I've had locals defend me while I was in the middle east, when I was in the off limits areas and even the local troublemakers there began to accept me and smile when I came around. 🙂

      November 21, 2010 at 2:35 pm |
    • Andrew

      WZRD 1. The new testament is not a supplement to the old testament. The old testament taught us about grace through the law. that was the original way that Israel was to go to heaven. however, as is taught in Romans, sin went deeper than ust simple actions. it was inherited from the first father Adam. we all inherited sin therefore no action we could due could save us. death was the only choice. That was why Jesus came down (the new testament), not replae the law but be the absolute fulfillment of the law. He died replacing the individual deaths that we were going to have to go through. You have to understand the original way to salvation in order to understand the point of Christ. Whether you believe in this or not, you can not take holy scriptures out of context be them Muslim, B'hai, hindu, judaic, or christian texts. he fact that afghanistan still pursues this is in its way a distortion of quranic text. If you look at the Crusades which have been quoted many times on these posts, boh sides committed atrocities while both sides also committed acts of mercy. Salah ad-din after the conquest of the holy land, provided amnesty to jews and Christians. The interpretation of scripture is done by individuals: you can show mercy or you can distort them to ways that serve you.

      November 21, 2010 at 4:17 pm |
    • likeseriously

      Holy cow, I am completely and totally dumb-founded here! WIZARD dude...are you honestly quoting from the Christian bible?! Ok...ATTENTION TO ALL MUSLIMS POSTING: Western society and most European countries have EVOLVED, we do not practise these rituals anymore and have not for like hundreds of years. Is this so hard to comprehend? I am not trying to insult all of Islam here, but honestly, most of the religon is stuck in the dark ages with literal interpretation. To accept the killing of people for thoughts or desires, its beyond comprehensible. We just don't get it!

      November 21, 2010 at 4:42 pm |
    • Gendor Mon

      Afghanistan is a group of tribes and warlords, not one whole country. Just because there is someone in Kabul speaking to the international media on behalf of the people of Afghanistan, it does not mean they are truly representing the whole country.

      Like different parts of the world, some places in Afghanistan are run by ignorant, fascist jerks. Heck, if you go to Anytown USA, you might come across a cabal of law enforcement and criminal justice system that abuses it's power too. They might not put you to death for a religion, but they could do a whole lot worse, like let you live in shame.

      November 21, 2010 at 5:41 pm |
    • NS Indiana

      Because Islam is just as barbaric as Christianity. The difference is, most "Christians" don't actually follow the majority of what the Bible tells them to do, they pick and choose as they see fit. Luckily, society has broken down the walls of Christianity (a bit). So, I'm not really sure who's better off. Muslims who follow their "word of God" or Christians who pick and chose which "word of God" fits them. Now, I'm not a proponent of any religion, I'm just playing devils advocate. I think the world we be a much greater and peaceful place if all religions fell the way of the Greek Gods and Goddesses. Chalked up as stories of fantasy and fables.

      November 21, 2010 at 5:49 pm |
    • Correction

      First off, Sharia law is not a religion and YES Islam appears to act like organized crime. Funny how so few of the so-called peaceful Islamic communities abroad do not unite, label the Taliban and Al Qaeda as false believers of the Qu'ran and annihilate the terrorists themselves by killing them instead of harming innocent people of their country. They know who the terrorists are but have been intimidated to the point that they are scared of their own shadows. It would not hurt if the so-called peaceful followers of Islam were more vocal about wanting these infidels (Taliban & Al Qaeda) killed like the rats they are.

      November 21, 2010 at 6:44 pm |
  16. Mark Holt

    I am not an overly religious person and I rarely post on message boards but I could not resist in this case. I am normally not opposed to American troops fighting for Freedom around the world. This article just makes my stomach turn and want our troops out of Afghanistan immediately. I realize our main purpose in Afghanistan is fighting Al Queda but in the process we are protecting there citizens and government as well. American stands for Freedom and if ths countrys government would jail someone let alone put them to death for converting religions amazes me. I say pull our troops out and anywhere we have intel that there is Al Queda operatives Bomb them all to hell and be done with it.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:18 am |
    • JustHuman51

      Mark I am totally with you. I am a Liberal by nature, but this is beyond anything I can even begin to tolerate. It makes me want to puke when I think about any of the Nato troops, many of whom are Christian, risking their lives for a bass ackward society like this. Pull the plug and bring 'em home NOW!

      November 21, 2010 at 10:09 am |
    • Rama

      Wake up...this guy is probably being used by the media and christian organization to elicit responses like this from people like you!! they are playing you like a puppet...

      November 21, 2010 at 10:36 am |
    • Wzrd1

      Mark, thank you for offering our fellow Americans for more slaughter. Because that is EXACTLY what would happen. Al Qaeda would rightfully claim that they won and drove us from Afghanistan. Their numbers would swell. More buildings would fall.
      I lost one cousin on 9/11 in one of the towers. You'd wish to sacrifice more of my family to the same? Or are YOU going to offer one of YOUR family up?
      Sorry, but they have an oversight in their laws. It IS a new government. To withdraw our troops would be to put Afghanistan RIGHT where it was when this all started, only for it to be repeated AND we'd also have an entire Taliban and Al Qaeda government against us.
      So, instead of three planes, next time it'd be 30.
      REAL smart! Nothing like rule by knee jerk reaction!

      November 21, 2010 at 11:57 am |
    • likeseriously

      @RAMA
      What exactly are you saying here? So, from your responses, are u saying this is all lies? That this actually does not happen in Islam? Everything we have heard about this past year alone, is completely untrue? For example, death by stoning in Iran, blasphemy against Mohammed in Pakistan, woman arrested and sentenced to death? No really, are you saying this is all made up? I really want you to answer my questions. As for the crusades, IT WAS 700 YEARS AGO. How many more times will you use this as a come back....it does not compare. And, to be honest, all religons have caused more death and destruction on this planet than WWI and WWII combined.

      November 21, 2010 at 4:32 pm |
    • Hallux

      @ Mark Holt: They have a law you disagree with, therefore let's pull out all troops, and bomb them into to oblivion because you disagree with one of their laws? Let me get this straight: because their government is considering killing one man because he made a decision THEY disagree with, you want our government to withdraw all our troops, and kill hundreds, perhaps thousands of them because of a decision their government made which YOU disagree with?

      You know, our laws in this country, (the US) allow for the murder of countless unborn babies here, it's called abortion. Maybe we should pull all our troops out of this country, and bomb IT instead. Surely the unborn, murdered usually for the convenience of the mother, to preserve the shapeliness of the mother's physique, or to allow her to finish compulsory public education, are as innocent as a convert from Islam to Christianity, and therefore worthy of your righteous indignation on their behalf! Well, aren't they?!? If not, why is it okay to kill tens of thousands of innocent babies, but kill one man... oh ho, you're ready to drop bombs on them?!?

      Coincidentally, most religions' "sacred" texts call at one point or another for the forced conversion of the infidel of that group, the death of those who misbehave, and believe eventually, the entire world will worship the way they do, groveling before the creation-fairy or whatever idiocy they believe in.

      Religion is an over used excuse for a failure to think. We'd be better off without it, as a race, but that's just not going to happen, as long as people continue to fail to reason, and understand the basics of cause and effect, and how probability works, and the implications of mathematics on the world in general. It is a (pardon the expression) testament to the power of random variable reinforcement, as B.F. Skinner demonstrated with his pigeons. Before I was made aware of his research, I liked to think human beings were more intelligent than pigeons, but turns out I was just being egotistical, as a human being; pigeons can exhibit signs of religious belief, too. How sad.

      November 21, 2010 at 4:59 pm |
  17. Mickey

    And we're dumping millions from our treasury and losing our fine young troops for this?

    November 21, 2010 at 9:17 am |
    • al

      billions

      November 21, 2010 at 9:52 am |
    • Wzrd1

      No, let's withdraw. We can always build new buildings when they knock more down!

      Look, I don't agree with it either. But, it IS *THEIR* country, not ours. If we were to install a puppet government, we'd be there forever, facing the same opposition that the Russians faced. We aren't facing that now, so let's see how they play this hand out.
      Because any alternative is FAR worse than what just happened or could potentially happen to this one man.

      November 21, 2010 at 11:53 am |
    • Geoff

      Trillions!

      November 21, 2010 at 12:09 pm |
  18. IslamisDTH

    Islam is not only divided, it is completely fractured and has gone long past fixing itself, much less ruling the rest of the world. It is time that Muslims, those who consider themselves good and peaceful, as well as those who want us to accept their ideology of barbarism at the point of the sword, take the fateful step and join the free and emancipated family of humanity. There is no going back. Barbarism is in our past.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:15 am |
    • Rama

      Not that I have anything against any religion...but the worst crimes in the history of human kind were not committed by musllims...they were committed by the west and by chrisitian people...think Hiroshima and the holocaust...does that make christianity a bad religion? a cult of psychopaths??

      November 21, 2010 at 10:27 am |
    • Wzrd1

      Islam is divided. You mean like Protestants, Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox Catholic?
      I guess you're right.

      November 21, 2010 at 12:06 pm |
    • stefan

      Listen to yourself, you sound just like Al-qaida propaganda, in any normal person's eye you should be classified as a terrorist because you encourage hate which will lead to hurting and killing innocent people who mostly likely have nothing to do with extremist and might very well share our views on freedom.

      November 21, 2010 at 12:06 pm |
    • Humble

      To Rama and others,
      The fact is, no major religion has a good record in terms of humans being slaughtered. Comparing the atrocities of the Muslims and the Christians is splitting hairs. Trying to say one is better than the other is insulting and below any truely enlightened individual. We could argue all day long over who's feces smells worse, but when the day is over it's all crap.

      November 21, 2010 at 3:58 pm |
    • holocaust

      The holocaust was done by the nazis...a cult in their own sense because they denounced all religions.

      November 21, 2010 at 4:24 pm |
    • Gendor Mon

      And yet Americans are murdering each other every day for less reasons.

      November 21, 2010 at 5:37 pm |
    • Correction

      You're loco Rama – Hiroshima was not heinous crime – it was retaliation for Pearl Harbor and to end the war quickly. As for the Holocaust it was done by the German Nazi SS and they were not Christians.

      November 21, 2010 at 6:20 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Correction

      You Said:--"You're loco Rama – Hiroshima was not heinous crime – it was retaliation for Pearl Harbor and to end the war quickly. As for the Holocaust it was done by the German Nazi SS and they were not Christians."

      Right... Decimating Hiroshima and Nagasaki, including the 'millions' of people who suffered then, and on into the future, was 'just' retaliation... oh.. and of course to end the war quickly.

      As for Hitler, there are several writings of his discussing his Christian beliefs. But, of course 'all' of the other atrocities done by Christians were done by people that were 'not' really Christians either.

      November 21, 2010 at 7:08 pm |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      Hitler, again?? What's with the Hitler references all the time? Here's one for you about "Hitler's Christian Beliefs"

      Hitler, at a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews ... The work that Christ started but could not finish, I - Adolf Hitler - will conclude."

      Yep, good 'ole Adolf.. a downright pious kind of guy.

      And yes, Fat Man and Little Boy shortened the war and saved 10K+ soldier's lives. The "retaliation" part was just a side benefit.

      November 21, 2010 at 7:24 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @308

      You just made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

      Would you like to take another spin at the wheel...?

      November 21, 2010 at 9:56 pm |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      Exactly where did I lose you? The part about Hitler being a psychotic faux Christian, or the bombing of Ja-pan being justified? Please try to keep up.

      November 21, 2010 at 11:44 pm |
    • mohammy

      peace2all is sssssssssssllllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww in the brain area

      November 21, 2010 at 11:46 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @.308

      Despite how often Christian apologists try to argue that Adolf Hitler is an example of the evil caused by atheism and secularism, the truth is that Hitler often proclaimed his own Christianity, how much he valued Christianity, how important Christianity was to his life, and even how much he was personally inspired by Jesus – his "Lord and Savior." There is plenty of evidence that he was critical of Christian churches for seeking independence from the state, but his vision of "Positive Christianity" was significant to him.

      For Instance:

      Adolf Hitler: The Nazi Party Represents Positive Christianity
      "We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession...."

      – Article 20 of the program of the German Workers' Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers' Party, NSDAP)

      Adolf Hitler: I am a Catholic
      "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

      – Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

      November 22, 2010 at 12:02 am |
    • Peace2All

      @.308

      Some more for ya'...

      Adolf Hitler: Christianity and the Holy German Reich
      "As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven."

      – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3

      Adolf Hitler: Significance of the Religion of Love
      "The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be, the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as it continues to depend on human beings... If this were not so, the founders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men of this earth... In its workings, even the religion of love is only the weak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance, however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to a universal human development of culture, ethics, and morality."

      – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

      November 22, 2010 at 12:08 am |
    • Peace2All

      @.308

      I could keep on providing more quotes and evidence, but enough evidence in proving you wrong is enough...eh...?

      Bottom-line... yeah, of course Hitler was psychotic, but... he still held 'beliefs' as a Christian. No escaping that little fact.

      And, as far as the bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, well.... your comments pretty much said it all, as to how evil and vile some Christians can be. Why... 'your' very own comments sounded very Hitler-ish. Wow...

      Ya' kinda' lost on both counts. If you want to try and debate with the big boys, you're going to have to bring a lot better game to the table.

      Good night... @.308

      November 22, 2010 at 12:18 am |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      I'm sorry to dampen your obvious affection and admiration for the nutter, but ol' Addie was doing nothing more than propagandizing when he avowed such "sacred" affections.

      The Catholic Church initially legitimized the Nazi movement and supported their war effort. Research The Concordat between the Vatican and the Nazis at nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

      At the start of the war, the Catholic church did support Hitler. As they feared Communism (Athiests) they supported the right wing radical party. Hitler also signed a Concordant with the Catholic Church saying that their rights would be respected and that he would not interfere, as long as the Catholic Church did not speak out politically. Paranoid as he was, a few years later he begun to attack the Catholic Church, and obviously they did not support him then.

      Dear Peace2All – you DO understand the concept of "propaganda", don't you? Or maybe not.

      November 22, 2010 at 12:30 am |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      You said: "And, as far as the bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, well.... your comments pretty much said it all, as to how evil and vile some Christians can be. Why... 'your' very own comments sounded very Hitler-ish. Wow... Ya' kinda' lost on both counts. If you want to try and debate with the big boys, you're going to have to bring a lot better game to the table."

      Actually – I didn't think about this in terms of 'winning or losing', I was just 'offering' – but if you're going to start with the "your like Hitler" defense, maybe I am ahead on points, 'eh? Or can't you muster a coherent argument without employing derogatory?

      November 22, 2010 at 12:35 am |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      I guess I owe you a Mein Kamph quote...

      I soon realized that the correct use of propaganda is a true art which has remained practically unknown to the bourgeois parties. Only the Christian-Social movement, especially in Lüger's time, achieved a certain virtuosity on this instrument, to which it owed many of its success.

      – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 6

      You think too highly of yourself, Peace. You need to research more thoroughly to get at the truth behind the appearances.

      November 22, 2010 at 12:41 am |
    • .308

      Sleep tight, pookie.

      November 22, 2010 at 12:41 am |
    • Bob G

      Mohammy – I agree with you. 308 Shoots! He Scores! Peace2All, you FAIL.

      November 22, 2010 at 12:57 am |
    • mohammy

      actually i was just trollin a little earlier- but peace is really an idiot if he thinks Hitler wasnt performing... a lot.

      and to claim early victory. hahahahaha! more like humor4all

      November 22, 2010 at 1:06 am |
    • Peace2All

      @.308

      O.K... I will take you at your word that you were..."just offering." Why don't we try to find some common groung..eh...?

      1)We 'both' believe Hitler was a psychopathic crazy person.–agreed..?

      I have offered several quotes on Hitler proclaiming his faith and belief as a Christian. You want to say that it was all 'just' propaganda and that he wasn't 'really' a Christian. Don't know where else to go with this one after offering you 'direct quotes' that you want to claim were not really evidence of his Christian faith. I read your post, but your postings about the Catholic Church still 'do not' show evidence that it was 'propaganda.' I took even more time to go over more writings from other scholars, and they all seem to be in agreement: Fact-Hitler was in fact a Christian. (A psychotic crazy one... but still a Christian).

      But, apparently you seem to think otherwise. I am certainly open to reading any (non-Christian) history scholars that you can find. Please cite your references. Again, I am open to reading and possibly learning something new. Fair enough...?

      Otherwise, the facts are... Hitler was a psychotic nut... and .. he was Christian.

      2)As far as the J-apan issue. No one in their 'right' mind would think it o.k to do what we did to J-apan. I would agree with you, that it 'probably' ended the war a bit quicker. However, at what cost...? There are 'several' scholars that have stated flat out that the U.S. did *not* have to drop the b-ombs. We had (other choices) and negotiations were going on. If you think it was o.k to slaughter millions of J-apanese(over time), because it 'may' have somehow ended the war a bit quicker, and you think it was a 'good' thing..... We will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

      November 22, 2010 at 1:07 am |
    • mohammy

      peace has no critical thinking skills... ill keep this in mind if i read any of her posts in the future...

      November 22, 2010 at 1:14 am |
    • Eric Whitman

      -308, mohammy, & Bob G.

      Well, I don't know if everyone is voting, but, peace2all was and is correct in his facts. -308 did not answer peace's quotes from Hitler. -308 tried to make it about something else with no evidence. Trying to misconstrue the quotes of Hitler into something else without evidence, and only speculation did not work on -308 part. He was wrong.

      Peace's argument's were unassailable. So far I have seen nothing from -308 that proves peace2all wrong.

      So, my vote, hand's down is for peace. The idiot is definitely not Peace, but seems to be you mohammy and Bob G. If -308 can't best peace then that is -308's problem.

      November 22, 2010 at 1:19 am |
    • peacetwoall

      i give up!

      November 22, 2010 at 1:21 am |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      2) Agree. It's been debated to exhaustion. No need to here.
      1) Start with this.
      http://www.bede.org.uk/hitler.htm
      He was about as Christian as my kids hamster.

      Now read the first chapter of Mein Kamph. He admired the church's ability to gather, control and maintain parishioners. No more, no less. I'm afraid your heinous Nazi example of evil Christianity is misplaced. Sorry; we can all be wrong on occasion. Live and learn, I always say.

      Good to talk with you. Later, Peace.

      November 22, 2010 at 1:22 am |
    • mohammy

      thank you for your unbiased announcement eric!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      November 22, 2010 at 1:23 am |
    • .308

      – and for those of you who demand more specific 'part and parcel' of examples, I'll do the legwork for you.

      http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/tp/AdolfHitlerChristianModel.htm

      November 22, 2010 at 1:33 am |
    • .308

      @Peas&Carrots2All

      OK – I'm tired. Past my bedtime. Don't make any wild-eyed claims to victory or 'unassailable' arguments while I'm sleeping... Catch y'all on the flip.

      November 22, 2010 at 1:42 am |
    • Peace2All

      @.308

      You Said:-–@ Peace2All

      "2) Agree. It's been debated to exhaustion. No need to here."

      Perfect. Glad we are good on this one.

      You Said:--"1) Start with this.
      http://www.bede.org.uk/hitler.htm
      He was about as Christian as my kids hamster.
      Now read the first chapter of Mein Kamph. He admired the church's ability to gather, control and maintain parishioners. No more, no less. I'm afraid your heinous Nazi example of evil Christianity is misplaced."

      Well,.... I looked at your link, and 'still' the overwhelming evidence from historians and scholars say--Hitler was a Christian. You have provided nothing that disputes that fact. But, @.308, actually in the overall scheme of things it really doesn't matter does it...? Not sure why we are beating this 'dead horse.' But, the facts still remain... Hitler was a Christian. (period). Not sure why it seems to bother Christians so much...? Seems that they want to make every evil-doer into some kind of Atheist monster. Never been any evil Christians who have slaughtered millions over the centuries...? Right... Interesting...

      You Said:-–"Sorry; we can all be wrong on occasion. Live and learn, I always say."

      lol... It seems to be good advice for everyone, yes..? If you want to take the time and do your homework, I am still open to some kind of overwhelming evidence, of which you have not provided. So, yes, you can be wrong at times, and learn. I hope you have learned tonight.

      You Said:--"Good to talk with you. Later, Peace."

      And good to talk with you @308. I hope to have further discussions on other topics at some point.

      Peace...

      November 22, 2010 at 1:43 am |
    • piecetooyall

      okay nitey nite 308!

      November 22, 2010 at 1:44 am |
    • .308

      Maybe if you mix in a little decaf... ? Just remember that caffeine is not a mind-expanding substance. Good Night.

      November 22, 2010 at 1:49 am |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      You said: " But, the facts still remain... Hitler was a Christian. (period)."

      Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't understand - until you said: "Hitler... (period)." Well, that's different – the use of "period" is a great closing argument. Tell me, Peace, did you stomp your feet on the floor for effect when you typed that?

      *Peace2All whines* " I'm right – you're wrong... I don't care what you say.... PERIOD! " (ignoring the facts)

      Next semester try to get into your high school debate class. It might be helpful to you.
      Silly girl... the Kitchen's over >>>>> there. I like mayo on my sammich.

      November 22, 2010 at 10:39 am |
    • .308

      @ Peace2All

      ... and bring me a beer while you're out there. And hand me the remote. Thanks, honey.

      November 22, 2010 at 10:47 am |
  19. Kevin

    Literally the dark ages. Monty python. Does this woman weigh more than a chicken.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:15 am |
    • stevo

      It was a duck.

      November 21, 2010 at 9:47 am |
    • al

      and it was "does she weight the same as..."
      such a butchered reference.

      November 21, 2010 at 9:54 am |
    • Vidya

      Tis a fair cop.

      November 21, 2010 at 12:46 pm |
    • Cleesofun

      She turned me into a newt.

      November 21, 2010 at 4:31 pm |
    • John

      I got better.

      December 13, 2010 at 7:18 pm |
  20. Henri Ferguson

    God does not exclude people, only religions do that.

    November 21, 2010 at 9:14 am |
    • JustHuman51

      Thank you for speaking the absolute truth in only one sentence!

      November 21, 2010 at 9:56 am |
    • Chris Henslow

      That's not true. It's written in the Koran and the Koran is the word of god. All three Abrahamic myths have rules like this. I wish people would stop with the "It's not God, it's religion" nonsense. It's right there in black and white in the respective books, and the word of god is unalterable. Also, people complacently say "There is nothing wrong with religion. It's people." I beg to differ and suggest it's the other way around.

      November 21, 2010 at 10:30 am |
    • A.B.

      "And who is more unjust then he who turns people away from the places of worship?" The Holy Qur'an

      no, God doesn't exclude people. They exclude themselves.

      November 21, 2010 at 11:11 am |
    • Yeah

      Chris,
      "the Koran is the word of god."

      You must prove this.

      November 21, 2010 at 1:03 pm |
    • Chris Henslow

      Dear science, no, I don't have to prove that. I'm not a religious apologist.

      November 21, 2010 at 1:09 pm |
    • Kyle

      Sorry chris, but Religion says that the quran or the bible is the word of god. Religions are run by people, so it's people that exclude people using religion.

      November 21, 2010 at 3:03 pm |
    • c.g.

      Yeah Chris, since "the word of god" was written by a man, no matter what religion your talking about, a man/woman is falliable, then in all factual sense any religious "bible" has no more meaning than a Harry Potter book. And any religion that threatens violence/death for non-belief in it just proves how flawed it is, and how corrupt and scared it's leaders are. Rather than trying to argue with truth about their beliefs, they frighten with fear. So yes, sounds like it's the people that exclude, not any god.

      November 21, 2010 at 3:16 pm |
    • Deb

      what a sick and DISTURBED religion.

      November 21, 2010 at 3:16 pm |
    • Ben Dover

      Chris, nobody cares. Especially us atheists who know that evolution is a fact and "god" is a myth.

      November 21, 2010 at 3:27 pm |
    • Krush

      Religions have nothing to do with excluding people. It is fallible humans that exclude each other.

      November 21, 2010 at 3:31 pm |
    • Jack

      c.g. – what do you mean Harry Potter is not true!!!?

      November 21, 2010 at 3:40 pm |
    • sgettle

      so is this what our troops fought and died for?

      November 21, 2010 at 3:40 pm |
    • Humble

      Chris, please don't present your beliefs as facts. It does you no good and only makes you look foolish. I respect your beliefs, but your blind accceptance of them is a neurotic faith based on fear of reprisal from God or people like those who work in the Afgan gov't.

      November 21, 2010 at 3:49 pm |
    • IanM

      Further to this.....In Iran they have passed final sentence of death by hanging for Christian Pastor for "thought crimes".
      This sentence is to be carried out in the next 2 weeks. http://www.christianlawjournal.com/world/iranian-pastor-faces-death-for-preaching-gospel/
      He has a wife and 2 children.

      November 21, 2010 at 3:53 pm |
    • zeezoh

      Throughout recorded time, how many people have been slaughtered, from all religions, in the name of God?

      November 21, 2010 at 4:04 pm |
    • AwesomeBob

      This is why I can't stress enough the importance of separation between church and state. Thank ______ that we have that here in America... for now.

      November 21, 2010 at 4:16 pm |
    • JonDie

      "God" is the author of almost every violent act that has ever occurred in human history.

      November 21, 2010 at 4:52 pm |
    • Gendor Mon

      NATO apparently went into Afghanistan to make them a more moderate people. Clearly they are not interested.

      But what is the point of stories such at this? Are we supposed to be outraged and say that it's a good thing we are teaching these people a lesson? There are probably worse stories about what is happening in America today. Look at the murders in Florida, a woman and three kids murdered, probably for even less reason.

      The men and women are not dying for any cause in Afghanistan or Iraq. Actually, that's not true. They're dying to preserve the oil supply and the drug supply.

      November 21, 2010 at 5:36 pm |
    • Dan

      The quoran is not the word of God – it's the word of Satan. All who follow this wicked religion will burn in hell because they have rejected Jesus. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life – no one comes to the Father except through Him. The bible says that there is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood. Jesus Christ was the perfect, sinless sacrifice that God sent into the world – because He loves the people of the world so much. Jesus Christ suffered death by crucifixtion to pay for our sins. Jesus is the only way to Heaven.

      November 21, 2010 at 6:11 pm |
    • jonathan

      Said Musa , stand my brotha ....Your faith is heard around the world...Glory to God....

      November 21, 2010 at 6:13 pm |
    • IrishRican

      zeezoh,

      Far less than have been killed by Atheists via Communism.

      November 21, 2010 at 6:20 pm |
    • Fairplay99

      To Chris Henslow, I know of no such directive in the Old or New Testament of the Holy Bible. Death is an incredible way of dealing with a conversion of Faith. Perhaps fear of death prevents some Muslims from conversion to another Faith. That is too bad, as it seems to me there is insecurity on behalf of those that enforce Sharia law.

      November 21, 2010 at 6:35 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Fairplay99

      I found this response by @Wzrd1..... I took the liberty of reposting it up here in response to 'your' posting regarding 'nothing' being said in the Christian Bible about this very subject. I didn't check for accuracy.

      However, seems like a pretty good representation.

      @Wzrd1 wrote: November 21st 2010, @11:43am

      "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

      Deuteronomy 13: 6-9

      "And has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones."

      Deuteronomy 17:3-5

      12 ...the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.
      (Deut)

      So as you can see, the punishment of apostasy in Christianity is DEATH, and not only that, the one who tries to convert you is also to be put the death. Even whole cities are to be destroyed!

      Therefore, Christians are the last one to talk about the punishment of apostasy, since the punishment for apostasy according to the Bible is DEATH."

      ME-Anyways... good luck arguing this one.

      Peace...

      November 21, 2010 at 7:00 pm |
    • STerry

      The tomb of Jesus is empty which proves he is the true Savior. The tomb of muhammad contains his rotted corpse.Jesus taught to spread the word by love.islam teaches to spread the religion by force and fear.Israel is the only land that was given to a people by God. It was given to the Jews, not the Palestinians.

      November 21, 2010 at 7:49 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @STerry

      You Said:---"The tomb of Jesus is empty which proves he is the true Savior."

      How do you know the tomb of Jesus is empty...? And, even if it was empty, how exactly would you specifically prove that he is the true Savior...?

      You Said:-- "The tomb of muhammad contains his rotted corpse.Jesus taught to spread the word by love.islam teaches to spread the religion by force and fear.Israel is the only land that was given to a people by God. It was given to the Jews, not the Palestinians."

      So.... what does that mean exactly...? "Only Christians are good...? Muslims are bad...?

      Not a very reliable post @Sterry...

      Peace...

      November 21, 2010 at 9:53 pm |
    • buffman

      evolution is fact? Absurd. So you believe that two cells swimming in a primordial sea bumped into each other and started life as we know it? First off, where di the cells come from? Scientists have tried to recreate that theory with zero success, what was it–lightning igniting life,etc. There is no proof in evolution, you would have to have more faith than any Muslim or Christian to believe in that THEORY, yes a theory, because it is not a proven fact with scientific data to back it up. Political Islam is a travesty, concocted by a failure of a camel trader/tcommon thief to satsify the inward man in all of us–i.e.–it is OK to hate or kill your brother in many situations, all in the name of God, or to kill the infidel–be it woman or child, to get to the reward of 70 vessel virgins. And even though Christianity is the one true way to God, it has been manipulated and abused by evil misguided people throughout history. Chrsit said to "come out from the world" and to "drink of the living water".

      November 22, 2010 at 12:47 pm |
    • buffman

      Hitler despised Christianity–why don't you google up his table talks about it. He even said he wished Islam had won in Europe when they were turned backk at Vienna so Europe would be more war like. He loved evolution, it was the basis for his mass genocide.

      November 22, 2010 at 12:52 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @buffman

      And your 'holy' bible isn't just filled with a lot of the same violence as the Qur'an...? And your comments on evolution.... Really...? Evolution is based on evidence, and religion is based on....??? Oh, yeah, that's right... nothing.

      I'm an agnostic, so I feel pretty good to say.. I can't say I absolutely know one way or the other, however for you religious christian zealots that think you have *the* truth, your self-righteousness reeks to ...ugh... heaven.

      November 22, 2010 at 1:44 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.