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Holy See urges 'prudence' in reading Vatican-related cables
December 13th, 2010
11:53 AM ET

Holy See urges 'prudence' in reading Vatican-related cables

The Holy See's press office Saturday urged the public to read the latest Vatican-related diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks with "great prudence," claiming the allegations cited in the documents reflect only the view of their writers.

Without going into specifics on a number of allegations that emerged with the U.S. cables, the Holy See Press Office said that the reports "reflect the perceptions and opinions of the people who wrote them and cannot be considered as expressions of the Holy See itself."

"Their reliability must, then, be evaluated carefully and with great prudence, bearing this circumstance in mind," the statement said.

Read the full story here about the Vatican's response to the release of the WikiLeaks cables.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Catholic Church • Christianity • Church • Europe • Ireland • Vatican

soundoff (27 Responses)
  1. DWTT

    ^^^^

    December 14, 2010 at 10:21 am |
  2. Reality

    Saving Christians from the Resurrection Con:

    From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

    Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

    To wit;

    From a major Catholic university's theology grad school class white board notes:

    "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
    Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

    Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

    Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

    The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

    Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

    The single Step continued:

    "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
    http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

    The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

    Of course, we all know that angels are really mythical "pretty wingie talking thingies".

    With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

    An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue, ( Professors Crossan and Wright are On Faith panelists).

    "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

    So where are the bones? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

    December 13, 2010 at 3:27 pm |
    • Doug

      You are hilarious. You have such a large spiritual chip on your shoulder that you troll around the CNN religion blogs pontificating to a decently sized audience of religious people that it's stupid to believe in a higher power. It's understandable that you don't understand why I believe in God. What's funny, is that you are so angry about the fact that I believe in God. Personally, I don't care that you don't believe in God, and I'll go home tonight and sleep well, not hating what you believe.

      December 13, 2010 at 5:53 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Doug

      I'm interested. Why do you believe in god? I am not angry. Witness to me! Tell me of your faith.

      Curious in Arizona

      December 13, 2010 at 9:08 pm |
    • BTW

      That's just one opinion (which so happens to contradict some writings they themselves claim as infallable) – just saying.

      December 14, 2010 at 10:24 am |
    • Reality

      The bodily resurrection being a con is surprisingly supported by the likes of Pope John Paul II and St. Thomas Aquinas. Throw in many of the contemporary historic Jesus exegetes and many Catholic theology teachers and you have obviously more than just one person's opinion.

      December 15, 2010 at 1:28 pm |
  3. Iqbal khan

    One of the Surah of Quran have said it all in only three Aayas (verses)....

    Al-Asr
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

    By (the Token of) time (through the Ages), (1) Verily Man is in loss, (2) Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy. (3)

    December 13, 2010 at 3:18 pm |
    • Reality

      Being in a care-for-my -neighbor mood, our Five Steps for Deprogramming 1400 years of Islamic Myths. See below:

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc.

      No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

      Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these five "steps' and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      Analogous Programs For Deflawing Christianity and Judaism are available.

      December 13, 2010 at 3:55 pm |
    • Doug

      @'Reality – Your comment really clears it all up for us, thank you. For a second, I thought you were just going to write a stupid, half-baked logic riddle which would undeniably prove Islam to be a false ideology. I can always count on some idiot to discount the beliefs of others within CNN's forums, especially when the target is Muslim. Why is it unacceptable to you that Iqbal has the right to believe in anything he wants?

      December 13, 2010 at 5:32 pm |
    • hina baig

      http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=102069176532563&set=a.102069156532565.3338.100001884428314

      December 14, 2010 at 2:40 pm |
  4. HotAirAce

    So what do you think the junior pope-a-dope (in white) is thinking as he stares at pope-a-dope's back?

    December 13, 2010 at 1:30 pm |
    • Frogist

      He's wondering if that cross is chocolate on the inside?

      December 13, 2010 at 3:47 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Or, "Is he ever going to pass that joint to me?

      December 13, 2010 at 4:22 pm |
  5. David Johnson

    The article said: "Among the doc_uments were cables showing that relations between the Vatican and Ireland deteriorated sharply as the Holy See appeared to ignore a commission looking into complaints of physical and $exual abuse of children by Irish priests."

    Another cable was rumored to state, how cute the new crop of altar boys were.

    I am deeply troubled that the Holy See seems more interested in covering its holy butt, than bringing to justice those that would hurt children.

    Here again is more evidence that religion is evil. It left these children vulnerable.

    We should ask ourselves, how could these sort of abuses occur, if there really was a god.

    Yet, it did, sometimes for decades. Where was god?

    Some of you will say, that free will is the culprit! God will not interfere!

    Okay, the bad priests have free will. They just chose badly. But what about their victim's free will? Did they choose to be harmed?

    So, some stronger people, either by stature or brute strength, have greater free will than others?

    Does that sound like a god given gift to you? You have free will, until it is taken from you?

    But, what about god's great plan for each of us? If there is a plan, there is no free will. The script is already written.

    If the future can be predicted, then everything is predestined. No free will.

    Cheers!

    December 13, 2010 at 1:02 pm |
    • jeff

      Augustine's, Luther's, and Calvin's view of free will, based on their reading of scripture, is considerably more limited than what most folks are comfortable with, as they viewed God as sovereign, man with the freedom to choose between bad choices, but not at liberty to choose God, and yet morally responsible for his choices.

      December 13, 2010 at 1:22 pm |
    • Jebus Christ

      This is me sending you to hell for making people think. ::waves hands in the air::

      Ha! see what i did there? I didnt give you a chance to get my forgiveness by eating my skin. Say hello to lucifer for me. That chick is hot!

      December 13, 2010 at 1:26 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Jeff,

      Check out this info on free will:

      CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will

      December 13, 2010 at 3:57 pm |
    • Luke

      CatholicMom

      So free will that is forced upon you doesn't seem exactly like free will. It actually sounds like a contradiction and logical fallacy.

      December 13, 2010 at 3:59 pm |
    • jeff

      @CatholicMom – thanks for the article!

      grace and peace,

      -jeff

      December 13, 2010 at 4:21 pm |
    • jeff

      @Luke – It is a conundrum to be sure! Is Reality stuck in a hopeless, endless loop, or is he posting the same paragraphs over and over and over of his own free will?

      grace and peace,

      -jeff

      December 13, 2010 at 4:26 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Luke,
      Without freewill you could not experience Love or Joy as we humans can. Your reason would be useless

      December 13, 2010 at 4:44 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @CatholicMom

      You said: "Without freewill you could not experience Love or Joy as we humans can. Your reason would be useless"

      You are assuming that there is either a god who has planned everything and allowed no free will OR, that there is a god and He allows us free will. Hmmm....

      I think we are forgetting my favorite: There is no god and nothing is predestined.

      Consider: If there is no god, it would explain why there is so much suffering/evil in the world; prayer does not work; there are so many religions and even denominations in the world. It is my personal explanation of everything. LOL

      Cheers!

      December 13, 2010 at 9:04 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @jeff

      Yes, the 5 point Calvanists are especially fond of predestination. They even believe people are born already saved and already damned. This is a hard candy belief, because it means god allows people to be born knowing they would someday burn forever.

      This is the religion of the Westboro Baptist Church. I have seen them debate other faiths. They know their scripture.

      Cheers!

      December 13, 2010 at 9:16 pm |
    • Luke

      CatholicMom

      Do you have any proof of this claim? I have evidence of the opposite, in fact. Since we know that love predates Christianity, and other religions do not claim to fall under the Abrahamic God and still their followers feel love and compassion disproves your idea of forced free well being behind love. Furthermore, we know that animals have higher order emotions such as love and companionship and clearly do not follow Christianity (and other religions) disproves your idea.

      December 14, 2010 at 9:03 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Luke,
      You do not have to believe in God to feel His gift of Love. All people receive the gift; whether you respond to it or not is up to you.

      December 14, 2010 at 10:16 am |
    • Luke

      CatholicMom

      That's your argument? You are going to have t Here's my question for you –

      If you were the only person in the world that believed in the Christian Doctrine, would you not think yourself crazy?

      December 14, 2010 at 11:03 am |
    • kevin

      You are right ... my friend. Our lives are predestined by god. But where
      you are wrong is that you dont understand that we have the power to "make a chocie" and change destiney. God knows what our choces will be in the long run, but he leaves us room to "change" our destiney. For example: You are in a supermarket and the teller gives you too much change. Now you know that you have been under charged, but the decision is left up to you wether to return the money that you were over paid. Know ... god knows what you will do ... but he gives you the choce on wether to do it or not. Does that make sense ?

      December 21, 2010 at 6:49 pm |
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