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10 Shiite pilgrims die in attacks in western Baghdad
December 15th, 2010
12:11 PM ET

10 Shiite pilgrims die in attacks in western Baghdad

At least 10 Shiite pilgrims were killed and dozens wounded in attacks targeting them in Iraq on Tuesday evening, officials said.

In western Baghdad's Ghazaliya neighborhood a roadside bomb detonated near a gathering of pilgrims killing at least 10 and wounding 21 others, an Interior Ministry official said.

To the north of Baghdad, in Diyala province, at least 14 people were wounded when a roadside bomb detonated near a procession of Shiite pilgrims in Khalis, according to the town's mayor.

Read the full story here about the violence against Shiite pilgrims.

- CNN Belief Blog

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soundoff (47 Responses)
  1. Mark from Middle River

    I again checked the "fair" post I made and I am still not seeing the wording or intent that you claim. To me it does still stand that CNN belief blog does have an issue when posting articles that are negative to Islam but maybe I should have said domestic Muslim issues. The two failed bombings should have been posted.

    Maybe it is because I do not consider myself anti-Muslim. I have never posted such that I can readily remember. I put this question to any of you, from peace to ace to 308.

    Is pointing out that more negative Christian stories go up on the board compares to Negative Muslim ones , being anti-Muslim? To me I always saw it as being critical of CNN blog writers not Muslims.

    I will close with this, iTouch is crying again

    December 17, 2010 at 12:01 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Mark from Middle River

      No worries -Mark. That is why we have these dialogues. We both at times, have respectfully questioned or pointed out something that may or may not have made sense, and you and I have had the 'sense' to respectfully discuss these things.

      Looking forward to continuing our 'civil dialogue.'

      Peace...

      December 17, 2010 at 1:41 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Mark: A failed attempt in Sweden is an international incident, isn't it? So your insistence that it is about domestic issues is questionable. And a failed attempt in Md is still a failed attempt. While these might warrant attention, and I think they do, do they warrant as much attention on the Belief Blog as people, as many as 50 or more, being killed on their religious pilgrimage? I don't know the details of the two incidents you mention so I can't say. But what you can do, if you feel so inclined, is post some links yourself, so that we are all better informed.
      And for goodness sake, man, get an iPad! LOL! Just kidding.

      December 17, 2010 at 2:21 pm |
  2. Mark from Middle River

    Actually if you double check my original post, and I just did to be sure , I did not even mention my normal feelings about CNNs often failure to balance or add any positive Christian stories. My issue was that CNNs belief blog choose to run two stories of bombings outside of the country by Muslim extremist but failed to mention a peep concerning two recent failed Muslim extremist bombings. To me I feel that was a failure by many standards. The biggest is that while I do feel for the loss of life over there in the middle east my and every American's concern should be dealing with the ones wanting to bomb here more. It might sound cold and heartless but the American Muslim family means more to me than all the Muslim families in the middle east.

    Now later post I mentioned that the frustration and folly of during the Christmas season, at that time the major Christian story, here at the belief blog dealt with the pastor going to England. This though was not my initial post.

    December 17, 2010 at 12:00 pm |
  3. Mark from Middle River

    ""It’s easy to be conciliatory for the sake of getting along. It’s much tougher to identify your position and stand up for yourself without … kowtowing.. to criticism from detractors.""

    Tell me then I took my stand, suffered ...... Criticism from you. What should be my next step 308? Like I said Iove to hold a position and fight for it , but what if that stand is just to tolerate some one just because they look , believe or have values different than my own.

    Your statement would paint me into a heck of a corner. Your telling me on one side I should stand for a issue but at the same time you say that I am wavering and kowtowing because I am not standing the exact way you feel I should. In your court it is a no win which is why you get hat you get from me.

    There is nothng hard about holding to your own views and beliefs .... That is, unless you are not fully confident in those views. In other words , unless you have doubts. If you are strong in your opinions then the dialouge that hopes to bring forth tolerance is the true challenge.

    Like I have said before, I can just go back to foxnews type of messageboards and blogs but all I would find are others that think like me. That is not a challenge 308. I came here to show other sides of conservatism and Christianity and bear the arrows while at the same time making my stand as the same.

    So I ask again in another way 308, if I changed my stance and language towards Islam, would I just then be catering and kowtowing to you?

    Peace dude.

    December 16, 2010 at 9:01 pm |
    • .308

      @ Mark

      Initially in this string you offered comments critical of CNN for, in your opinion, undue criticism on Christianity as opposed to inequitable coverage of the troubles afforded by Islam. When questioned by P2All about your message you seemed to back step rather than defend your, in my opinion, a very valid initial concern. CNN does, in the opinion of many, skew their 'belief' coverage here against Christianity. This perception can be, and has been, debated here many times over. Anyway..

      You were initially baited by P2All, and then Frogist did a little dance on you; so here I am waiting to see if you 'man up' and defend your position. Instead we get... "Peace, that was a mostly fair observation." and similar atonement mitigating your alleged 'anti-Muslim' tendencies over the period of a year, supported with an obvious reversal of your initial concerns manifested in your expressions of empathy with Muslim 'peacemakers.'

      At that point I'm thinking you either misspoke initially and were attempting to back-step, i.e., kowtow, or your initial point was not well-constructed. When your Muslim sympathies kicked-in you appeared to be even more conflicted. Finally, when you started making generalizations about Muslim intent with respect to Shari'a based on a 'bunch' of folks that you know.. I became a bit frustrated with you; there are other markers and variables out there to at least consider. Thus the comment about statistics.

      You can choose any 'side' of and issue you care to... just be clear about your position. Lastly, regarding your statement " If you are strong in your opinions then the dialouge (sic) that hopes to bring forth tolerance is the true challenge." Please don't presume that 'tolerance' should be a mutual goal, especially between two 'strongly opinionated' people. There are some people on this board, so adept at using their own brilliance to dazzling themselves and stroke their own ego, for whom I have absolutely no tolerance, together with certain demographics, behaviors, or impositions. I can, however, understand most any reasonable person and establish commonality or lack thereof.

      December 16, 2010 at 10:09 pm |
    • .308

      * dazzle

      December 16, 2010 at 10:11 pm |
  4. Mark from Middle River

    The problem is 308 is that while many have no problem with standing fast there are those in each of our groups to whom "standing fast" is not good enough. They feel that the they are a true football team and standing fast is to hold to your belief but going forward on offense is the true propose in life. I fear that there amounts us 308 that what they want is to strike now, first and decisively destroy and make coming to America not as attractive a option to Muslims.

    I am a history student and call it a Jewish conspiracy of my education sustem, but I knew of Kristallnacht before I knew of the civil rights movement. I first heard of it in 4th grade, so maybe I might be more intune when I hear words as such.

    Do I believe we should be watchful, yep. Do I believe we should be firm in who we are, yep again.

    Do I believe that every or the majority of Muslims in this country want us under sharia law, nope. After talking with a bunch of Muslims, do I believe that the majority "want" to live under sharia ...no. The last one I am finding more and more interesting. I am running into more and more Muslims that know what sharia is in concept but seem to want to come here to America to escape certain aspects or maybe enforcements of it.

    In the end 308 I understand the desire and need to stand fast but at the same time is just talking to Muslims and listening that hard of an option. You see I have met the Muslims to which talking is not a option. The Wahhabi types to whom I thought all Muslim were. The same as folks think all blacks are Crypts or Bloods and all white people are klan or neo-nazis. That is the problem and fear of having dialogue 308. Its a scary road to go down. The road that is not the cowards way. The road that shows the human side of simulaity to those you felt you had nothing, at all in common with. Its what showed me that the feelings I had of LGBT persons was not as black and white as I thought. I could have just continued to hate but good grief in my life I have met many that are as far right as many would feel comfortable in their views to believe.

    I could go on and on with examples 308 but, I think you get my gist. I need to bounce. Peace dude,

    December 16, 2010 at 1:48 pm |
    • .308

      @ Mark

      I would strongly recommend that you do your own research on Shari'a, independent of proffered Muslim 'opinion.' There's a wealth of objective knowledge and example available on what Shari'a is doing to many Northern European countries and America as well. There is, to the dismay and denial of many folks, maybe yourself included.. a very clear black and white definition of the issue, albeit injected with 'gray' by others in an attempt to cloud the reality.

      Do the research for yourself. Make up your mind, then stand by your decision without apology or shame.

      December 16, 2010 at 4:37 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Mark from Middle River

      'Very' well said, my friend...!

      Peace brother....

      December 16, 2010 at 6:28 pm |
    • .308

      Yeah, well said...

      "Do I believe that every or the majority of Muslims in this country want us under sharia law, nope. After talking with a bunch of Muslims, do I believe that the majority "want" to live under sharia ...no. The last one I am finding more and more interesting. I am running into more and more Muslims that know what sharia is in concept but seem to want to come here to America to escape certain aspects or maybe enforcements of it."

      I'm certain he's drawing his inferences from a valid sample (a bunch? Should be good.)... Those 'statistics' can be tricky little devils. Never mind that reality is flying in the opposite direction. Nah – that's not important at all.

      Night, Mark – I hope all your dreams continue to be pleasant.

      December 16, 2010 at 7:40 pm |
    • Frogist

      @.308: Add to his sampling, my sample of people. In this country and others.
      But even if it was just 1 out of 100 muslims who did not want sharia as perpetrated in another country to be implemented here, shouldn't they count? Should we ignore them because they don't fit your view of a totalitarian, anti-American jihadist muslim? Should we throw to the side people who would stand with the rest of America in a recognition of human rights and a progressive, integrated Islam? Or do we ignore them because you are afraid everyone's lying to you, and the religious world is out to get you? I'm not willing to ignore them to appease your fears.

      December 17, 2010 at 10:23 am |
    • .308

      @ Frogist

      " But even if it was just 1 out of 100 muslims who did not want sharia as perpetrated in another country to be implemented here, shouldn't they count? "

      In a word... No. Shari'a continues to gain ever-stronger footholds here at home and abroad. Any time there is a concession to Muslim demands – Shari'a is being satisfied. Any time governments and individuals deal with Islamic finance, Shari'a is being satisfied. Other examples abound, from designating restrictions on women at American college gymnasiums, to placing Islamic toilets in American university medical centers for Muslim physicians – Shari'a is not only being tolerated, but also openly endorsed.

      In short, Frogist... action trumps talk. That applies to any Muslim lip-service on the control of radicals when the bombings continue. It applies to Muslims 'denouncing' Shari'a, yet Shari'a continues its gains. I really, truly, honestly – don't care – what anyone 'says' when it is obvious that these otherwise 'unwanted' behaviors and conditions multiply. The only applicable 'sample size' that concerns me is the folks that want Shari'a, and those that continue to bomb – because they are the true source of the problems.

      December 17, 2010 at 2:36 pm |
  5. Reality

    As good neighbors should, we again bring peace and reason to two billion lost Christian souls in a single step:

    From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

    Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

    To wit;

    From a major Catholic university's theology grad school white-board notes:

    "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
    Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

    Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

    Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

    The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

    Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

    The single Step continued:

    "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
    http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

    The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

    Of course, we all know that angels are really mythical "pretty wingie talking thingies".

    With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

    An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue, ( Professors Crossan and Wright are On Faith panelists).

    "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

    So where are the bones? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs or covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

    December 16, 2010 at 1:26 pm |
  6. Mark from Middle River

    KowTow.......

    I am not sure what to say .308. Frogist and Peace.... welcome to my world. .. anyone's world that tries to see the world that is not black and white but in many ways grey.

    If it is not folks like Gary and Reality that just seem to hate folks of faith it is folks from, I guess "our side" who balk at any and shame at any hint of dialogue.

    ecch.....

    December 16, 2010 at 9:08 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Mark from Middle River

      I do understand Mark...Don't worry about it. There are some individuals, who are on the 'radical fringe' that spout off hatred and lies and want to 'hate' different individuals and groups of people and think that 'all' Muslim's are bad, or 'all' Christians are bad, and they are usually the ones that start making vicious personal attacks when they don't get their way.

      Just do what the rest of us usually do... we pay no attention to the 'lunatic fringe.'

      As for you and I and civil debate. Thank you again, for helping each other to learn and grow.

      Peace brother...

      December 16, 2010 at 10:53 am |
    • .308

      @ Mark & Peace

      Well, there are several paths to choose from... you can either make a decision and stand fast, or wallow in the comfort of vacillation and placatory as you two seem to favor.

      Good luck with that...

      December 16, 2010 at 12:16 pm |
    • Reality

      Bringing peace to 1.5 billion lost Muslim souls yet again:

      The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:
      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)
      alone."
      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      December 16, 2010 at 1:20 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Mark: And you think Peace2All and me and David Johnson and Luke etc don't get the same? We do! Welcome to our world! LOL! You're a good guy to see the grey IMO. It's not an easy view. And it's not a simple one. It's a tough position to defend. But you are not alone in that. That's the only comfort one can really take. Our opinions don't match up in so many ways, but we do find common ground a lot more than I expect. And that's a testament to wanting to be tolerant and being able to see things from the other side. I think that's worth more than .308's disapproval or taunts.

      December 16, 2010 at 3:01 pm |
    • .308

      @ Mark

      It's easy to be conciliatory for the sake of getting along. It's much tougher to identify your position and stand up for yourself without ... kowtowing.. to criticism from detractors.

      @ Frogist

      My taunts? You are a victim of selective perception. Your noggin is failing you if you continue to think that I represent the sole and worst offender here when compared to the diatribes from the atheists. Can't take.. don't dish.

      December 16, 2010 at 4:25 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Frogist

      Well Said...

      Peace...

      December 16, 2010 at 5:01 pm |
    • .308

      * sniff *

      Poor abused, misunderstood atheists...

      December 16, 2010 at 5:16 pm |
    • Frogist

      @.308: I don't believe you are the sole and worst offender. I have seen much more impolite posts from believers and non-believers alike. You can be downright coherent and reasonable at times. But I do believe that your response of "kowtow" was a taunt. Your att!tude is rude and degrading in a number of your posts. As a disclaimer I must say I have been subject to them. Oddly enough, on topics about muslims where I have defended their right to worship freely. If you don't wish to be polite, you must understand that it will be pointed out to you. If not by me, then by others. As I've said over and over again, we must start recognizing that the wholesale treatment of believers as callous, small-minded, prejudiced people will win you no hearts or minds. It will only serve to isolate us and confirm in them that their path is much better than ours. Something to think about.

      December 17, 2010 at 10:13 am |
    • .308

      @ Frogist

      " But I do believe that your response of "kowtow" was a taunt."
      75% observation, 25% taunt.

      " If you don't wish to be polite, you must understand that it will be pointed out to you. "
      I will give your concern credence when you treat your cohorts' scorn with similar disdain.

      December 17, 2010 at 3:38 pm |
    • .308

      btw, your presumption that I am an atheist is incorrect. I do have beliefs, however as my alter-ego Let Us Prey has pointed out on multiple occasions, they are not germane to my concerns about the expression of (any) belief, or the condemnation thereof.

      December 17, 2010 at 3:42 pm |
  7. Mark from Middle River

    Frogist and Peace ,

    Peace, that was a mostly fair observation. It might appear that I some of my post appear anti- Muslim but as you have written I try to find a peaceful path when I can. I am glad that you notice the differance and weigh the totality.

    I hope this post goes up because two atempts to respond have failed. I will blame it on being at work with a shaky wifi connection typing on a iTouch. My post today was two fold. One was to beat Reality before he or she went on one of those true anti- Muslim rants/ cut and paste. So part of it was for humour.

    The second part is that I do mean a bit what I posted. There is a fear of a backlash from some of our fellow Muslim citizens and a fear of an general backlash against the Muslim community as a whole. The problem is that, with many articles on this blog the same respect is not given towards Christianity. A person says I might go nuts when I see such but be truthful all I have to say is Sarah palin and Pope Bennidict and see the negative post just go on and on and on.

    Why is that for some people and subjects it is acceptable to be forth right and vocal but other subjects you better keep quiet or be thought of as irrational?

    I feel the truth is that if I am to try to show that the majority of Christians are not crusaders or bigots or child molestors then I feel the same as the Muslim peacemakers. I understand their difficult path when they try to show folks the many good Muslims in the world and keep getting bombarded with negative images and footage from the minority.

    In some ways I understand why a Muslim girl a few months back said she was leaving this blog. Why come in each day and 90% of the articles about her faith are negative. Myself I love a fight but I can understand because the majority of Christian articles here are negative.

    Think about in all the soup kitchens and shelters Christian and other faiths are running during this Christmas season .... CNN belief blog
    had a story that a nut of a pastor from a small church in Florida who was going to burn a bunch of korans, that he was going on a trip to England.

    I mean come on guys .... A big Christian story is a pastor going to England.

    I do respect you peace and frogist. Even a small bit .... A real small bit Ace. :). But I will close with something I read recently on some blog where the writer stated that we as Christians need a radical section to start actting more in the same fashion as radical Islam. His example was the billboard in new York and how athiest are not brave enough to do that to Muslims during rhamadon and due to the holocaust, to ashamed to do the same to Jews for haunkah.

    This is what I fear, these types that have seen the examples of radical Islam and want to afoot such. So I ask to keep checking out my post and seeing that often the way to peace is to strive for balance.

    My thumbs are tired and my iTouch just said mercy 🙂

    thanks guys.

    December 15, 2010 at 10:09 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Mark from Middle River

      You Said: "Peace, that was a mostly fair observation. It might appear that some of my posts appear anti- Muslim but as you have written I try to find a peaceful path when I can. I am glad that you notice the differance and weigh the totality."

      No problem Mark. You and I have always seemed to be able to have civil discourse and discuss our ideas, and understand that we are all trying to learn here. I always have welcomed your well-intentioned opinions.

      And... I appreciate the rest of your posting. And, that makes more sense, and glad you got to put it out there. Hope that your 'thumbs' are o.k.

      -Mark, again, thanks for chatting. I always feel that I come away with some better understandings, even if we don't always agree on everything.

      Peace brother...

      December 16, 2010 at 2:01 am |
    • .308

      @ Mark from Middle River

      Kowtow.

      December 16, 2010 at 2:26 am |
    • Frogist

      @Mark:
      You are right to feel beset on these boards by those who see Christians as nothing more than crusading bigots. I have seen that happen. And it is wrong IMO. But it is so much less than a muslim will get on this same blog. But it benefits no one to deny the good that Christianity has within it. Just as it benefits no one to deny the good that Islam has. But it also benefits us nothing to live in denial of the bad aspects of both religions and followers.
      I'm not sure how an article detailing child abuse in the Catholic church can be considered anti-Christian. Or an article in support of the rights of muslims to worship freely is an article that is pro-Islam. You make that odd connection and then you draw from it a conclusion that CNN is anti-Christian? Really to think that any negative view of Palin or B16 is because people are anti-Christian shows a further denial. Certainly they get some of the pure anti-Christian sentiment, but they also get the anti-child molester, anti-ditz, anti-hypocrisy sentiment as well. And it is these latter feelings that are reflected a hundred times more than some imagined anti-Christian feeling. Add to that the constant infighting between Christians and you will get non-Catholic Christians adding their anti-Catholic sentiment too. But apples to apples, christianity is treated with much more deference in this country than Islam. To deny that is to hide from the truth.
      Yes, atheists will target Christians because this country is majority Christian. And the only religion trying to push its way into politics daily. But how you translate a single activist billboard by a small group of people to be some giant conspiracy is the height of ridiculous.
      You say you are looking for some kind of equal treatment, but what you are looking for is partiality maybe even reverence. And I'm glad CNN doesn't give it to you. This is not the place for it. As I've said before, if you are looking for a place where the world of Christianity gets a pass for its ills maybe your church is a better place to seek that. And if you are looking for a place where the world of Islam is considered only for its ills, I'm sure there are many blogs that you can find to feed that petulance.
      I'm sorry you feel neglected and set upon. But to be honest, you are the privileged. When you garner as much hatred as an atheist or a muslim, I'll start believing in your conspiracy.

      December 16, 2010 at 2:47 pm |
    • .308

      @ Frogist

      " Yes, atheists will target Christians because this country is majority Christian."
      A convenient rationalization to either express bigoted feelings toward a selective group, or to avoid other groups out of either fear, respect, or priority. Your choice. But to offer the quotes above and immediately below is damaging to the credibility of the atheist argument. Atheists do not have the luxury of excluding any religion from overt criticism or offering any (subjective) favoritism. And a 'single' billboard targeting a single group will be loosely translated or interpreted by any reasonable person as a targeting of that group. In short, if you're going to bash religion, you have to bash 'em all. That is the atheists' .. sorry.. 'cross to bear.' Or more simply, their responsibility.

      " And the only religion trying to push its way into politics daily."
      This is a false statement and either a purposeful omission or ignorance of the truth. Shame on you in either respect.

      "where the world of Islam is considered only for its ills"
      Maybe Mark feels that Christianity isn't being offered equal time for it's benefits? I can't fault his perception.

      December 16, 2010 at 4:14 pm |
    • Frogist

      @.308: I am well aware of Mark's feeling. But I stand by my words that they are faulty. His response to your "kowtow" post shows that he has been ignorant of the anger and exclusion that non-believers have been subject to on this board. His feelings reflect the idea that only believers, mostly Christian, are subject to ridicule. And that is patently false. As for your opposition to all things Islam. I am quite aware of where you stand. And your anger and distrust of muslims seems far greater than any addressed towards Christianity or otherwise. Odd for a "good atheist" as you like to call yourself.
      As for that billboard, it's really interesting to see your opposition to it. I think their tactic is correct in going after the biggest religious group first and foremost. Especially seeing the obvious danger that Christians presents to breaching our separation of church and state. You may think muslims are just as great a danger in that, but you would be wrong. The November elections should have taught you that at least. So while it may be biased to you, I suspect your displeasure at my interpretation of their motives has less to do with targeting Christians solely, but that you think muslims should be treated not equally but worse. Based in your previous posts, I have to believe that is where you stand.

      December 17, 2010 at 9:54 am |
    • Frogist

      @ .308: Actually I must post a correction. I had assumed you yourself were an atheist after one of your previous posts to me. But that assumption my be incorrect. You can clarify that if you choose.

      December 17, 2010 at 10:40 am |
    • .308

      @ Frogist

      Forgive me.. I have a cold, and my head is full of Sudafed.. so I'm slow today.

      " ... separation of church and state. You may think muslims are just as great a danger in that, but you would be wrong. The November elections should have taught you that at least. "

      I can't equivocate what I view as a 'protest vote' to what you seem to intimate is a 'control vote.' I'm sorry... I don't get your reasoning here... or maybe we're just having one of our 'perceptual reality' problems.

      December 17, 2010 at 3:22 pm |
    • .308

      @ Frogist

      " I suspect your displeasure at my interpretation of their motives has less to do with targeting Christians solely, but that you think muslims should be treated not equally but worse. "

      You would be mistaken.

      December 17, 2010 at 3:26 pm |
    • .308

      @ Frogist

      " Especially seeing the obvious danger that Christians presents to breaching our separation of church and state."

      And if you refuse to admit the danger that Islam poses in this respect while choosing to focus on Christianity, then I stand by my perception that this is a purposeful selection on your part – a conscious and intentional choice to pursue one, and avoid the other. Now.. what's that called?

      Sorry for the multiples... It's the damned decongestants...

      December 17, 2010 at 3:52 pm |
  8. Gary

    religion breeds hatred terrorism war and death........

    December 15, 2010 at 9:28 pm |
  9. BuddyKowalsk

    Bummer.

    December 15, 2010 at 7:25 pm |
  10. Frogist

    My sincere sympathies go out to these people. This religious infighting is ridiculous. What does it profit you to kill some more people? Is it territory? Is it wealth? Is it ego? I'll tell you what it is. It's heartless. It makes your people seem heartless. And your god too.

    December 15, 2010 at 3:54 pm |
  11. Reality

    And again we come to save all the branches of Islam:

    The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:
    ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

    Are you ready?

    Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

    "1. Belief in Allah"

    aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

    "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

    Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

    "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

    A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

    "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

    Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

    Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

    Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

    "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

    Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

    Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

    December 15, 2010 at 1:32 pm |
  12. Mark from Middle River

    Hey CNN Blog Writers..... Wasn't there an bombing attack in Sweden from a Muslim terrorist?

    Did we miss that front page story for a reason? I live in the Maryland area.... we had a Muslim terrorist attempt to blow up a recruiting station... no threads on that?

    December 15, 2010 at 1:26 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      It's trivial to search CNN and find the articles you mention. Sure, it would be nice if all stories with a religious connection were cross-filed here, but do you really think there's a conspirancy?

      December 15, 2010 at 1:40 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Mark: I know you say you are a spiritual person who cares about the sanct!ty of life. So the really sad thing is that people lost family during their holy time for being their religion of choice. But your only comment is about how much time you think CNN is not giving stories you think are more worthy. It makes me wonder about whether you are being sincere or whether you've let your fear overtake your empathy. I know there is more to you than this.

      December 15, 2010 at 3:51 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Mark from Middle River

      Hi Mark...

      From watching you over the last...well, almost a year I guess, since the Belief Blog has been up and running, I have noticed a 'pattern' in you. Not sure whether you are aware of it or not, but thought I would bring it to your attention.

      You have a tendency to attempt to be a 'peace-maker' yet, your postings, quite often show otherwise.

      Especially nowadays, you have tried to make the claim that their aren't any positive Christian articles. And secondly, their are not enough articles showing the negativity towards Islam in the world.

      And here we have an example above- and your comment is about..."Where is the article of Muslim extremists in Sweden...?"

      Just my opinion Mark, but it seems like nowadays, you are very focused on the 'it's never enough' mind-set about negative articles about Islam. But, put out a negative article on Christianity, and you seem to go 'bat-sh!t' about it. Showing your obvious and biased positive slant towards Christianity.

      Again, just an observation, and I have noticed a few others have commented on it too about your proclivities. As you know, and we have both stated here before, especially me being an 'agnostic,' we are all here to learn.

      Peace...

      December 15, 2010 at 8:19 pm |
    • .308

      Ha!! Since everyone is feeling the need to cross-post the same comments both here and in the '32 die' topic – I'll play along..

      @ Mark

      I agree. Further – don't let the empty accusations or other attempts at derailment by the sympathizers minimize your concern. It is valid.

      Yep... that's right, boys and girls. The western concern here has nothing to do with sympathy or understanding... It is a concern born strictly of self-preservation. The more of this example we are shown, the more our concern is validated, despite any futile attempts at marginalizing, dismissing or otherwise insulting common-sense exhortations about Islam.

      @ Peace2All

      Sometimes, Peace, given the convictions you've expressed in the past... it almost seems like you go out of your way to pick a fight.. It appears we all have our proclivities. Yours appears to be a need to state the obvious.

      *sigh*

      @ Frogist

      No... I feel not the least little bit of sympathy for idiocy that has been going on over there for generations. It would be a waste of perfectly good emotional energy.

      December 15, 2010 at 10:06 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Mark from Middle River

      You Said: "Peace, that was a mostly fair observation. It might appear that some of my posts appear anti- Muslim but as you have written I try to find a peaceful path when I can. I am glad that you notice the differance and weigh the totality."

      No problem Mark. You and I have always seemed to be able to have civil discourse and discuss our ideas, and understand that we are all trying to learn here. I always have welcomed your well-intentioned opinions.

      And... I appreciate the rest of your posting. And, that makes more sense, and glad you got to put it out there. Hope that your 'thumbs' are o.k.

      -Mark, again, thanks for chatting. I always feel that I come away with some better understandings, even if we don't always agree on everything.

      Peace brother...

      December 16, 2010 at 2:00 am |
    • Frogist

      @.308: Your lack of empathy for others is worrisome to say the least.

      December 16, 2010 at 1:12 pm |
    • .308

      @ Frogist

      I wouldn't let it bother you so badly. Go have something good to eat.. or curl-up with a dog in your lap and read good book.

      December 16, 2010 at 5:11 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.