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John Paul II could move toward sainthood this year, report says
File photo from October 21, 2003 shows Pope John Paul II saluting the crowd as he arrives for an ordination ceremony.
January 5th, 2011
02:58 PM ET

John Paul II could move toward sainthood this year, report says

By Richard Allen Greene and Hada Messia, CNN

The late Pope John Paul II could take a big step toward sainthood as early as this year, a longtime Vatican journalist reports.

He could be beatified in a service led by Pope Benedict XVI at the Vatican by the end of 2011 - an event that would be certain to draw hundreds of thousands of faithful.

Medical and theological experts have credited John Paul II with the healing of a nun whose order prayed to him after he died in 2005. Sister Marie-Simon-Pierre says she was cured of Parkinson's disease.

A team of cardinals and bishops will examine the reputed miracle this month and pass their verdict to the pope.

If Benedict XVI confirms that it was a miracle, John Paul will be eligible to be beatified, the last step before sainthood.

Journalist Andrea Tornielli, who has covered the Vatican for many years, first reported the news Tuesday.

The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, and the Vatican office studying the case for John Paul's sainthood both refused to comment on the matter when questioned by CNN Wednesday.

But if the miracle is confirmed by the Catholic Church, John Paul II could be beatified as soon as April 2, the sixth anniversary of his death, Tornielli said.

That would be very fast in Vatican terms.

Other possible dates are May 18, John Paul's birthday, or October 16, the anniversary of the date he was elected pope in 1978, Tornielli said, suggesting the last date is most likely, to give the church time to prepare what will be an enormous event, even by the Vatican's standards.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Belief • Bishops • Catholic Church • Christianity • Pope Benedict XVI • Vatican

soundoff (317 Responses)
  1. Muneef

    Al-Mumenoon sura 23:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Blissful are the believers- (1) Those who in their prayer are lowly. (2) And those who from everything vain turn away. (3) And those who for the sake of purification are doers. (4) And those who of their private Parts are guards. (5) Save in regard to their spouses and those whom their right hands own: so they are not blameworthy- (6) And Whosoever seeketh beyond that, then it is these who are the trans-gr-es-sors (7) And those who of their trusts and covenant are keepers. (8) And those who of their prayers are observant. (9) These! they are the inheritors. (10) Who shall inherit Paradise; therein they shall be abiders. (11).

    January 9, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
  2. Muneef

    Al-Asr
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    By the declining day, (1) Lo! man is a state of loss, (2) Save those who believe and do good works, and exhort one another to truth and exhort one another to endurance. (3)

    January 9, 2011 at 6:37 am |
  3. Its Biblical

    "That if thou shall Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall Believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED." - Romans 10:9 KJV. There is no mention in Holy Scripture about Baptism taking the place of this wonderful acknowledgment and prayer in order to become Born Again.

    January 8, 2011 at 11:37 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Its Biblical,

      Yes, we must believe [have faith] as in Romans 10:9 but we MUST also receive Baptism………….

      1Peter 3:21 There is also an ant!type WHICH NOW SAVES US, NAMELY BAPTISM [not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God], through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,…..KJV

      John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God….
      and in a verse later, Jesus say in John 3:7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' KJV

      Jesus said:
      Mark 16:16 “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned…..KJV

      Do you believe you should be baptized now to be saved?

      January 9, 2011 at 12:08 am |
    • Youre Misinformed

      CatholicMom, Of course Baptism is important. I have always believed that and have said so. However, that is not what gets one into Heaven if one thinks that is akin to becoming Born Again. The Holy Bible is very clear on that. Those are two very distinct and separate processes. What you are saying to people is simply not correct in equating the Catholic missalet teachings to say that all one needs to be Saved is Baptism. They very much need to also utter the prayerful words as demonstrated in Scripture I presented in order to become Born Again. I am a Christian who was baptized as a baby and later learned that that was not enough to get me into Heaven, that I also had to amend my life and give it to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, repent for my sins, acknowledge that Jesus came to save us and died for us and then resurrected, and that He is the One and Only begotten Son of God. THAT is what, in essence, gets one Saved when said with a contrite heart and mind before God in prayer. And I did recite that prayer to become Born Again and have been for many years.

      And just recently yet another Catholic person who works at a Catholic church whom I was speaking with said her priests do not ever stress becoming Born Again through the Spirit by saying the prayers and that they think it suffices to just become baptized. And again, the Bible says that is not what will save your soul and spirit. That is why I continue to have this discussion so that all will know. While baptism is an important part of the equation, one needs to also say the prayer of Salvation to and about Jesus Christ to truly become Born Again. That cannot be so hard to understand and Biblical scholars would be the first to tell you that it is not just me saying that but that it is in Holy Scripture. Of course, because of your free will you can choose to believe as you will but the rest of this audience needs to know how to truly become Saved as the Holy Bible directs us to do through that prayer. I pray that Our Lord and Savior may touch you in a very special way and anoint you to come to realize that this is the true way to Salvation.

      January 9, 2011 at 8:10 pm |
    • Youre Misinformed

      To expound a little more on the posting by Its Biblical, the following Scriptures reveal what must be done, as I have been saying, in order to become Born Again. Please note that nowhere do these Scriptures mention baptism. And while Jesus was indeed baptized by John the Baptist it is therefore also an important sacrament, but be assured that it is not the way towards becoming Born Again as the Holy Bible clearly elucidates.

      "That if thou shall Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall Believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED." - ROMANS 10:9 KJV

      "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be Born Again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." - JOHN 3:3 KJV

      "He that believeth on Him is not condemned but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the ONLY begotten Son of God." - JOHN 3:18 KJV

      "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVE on His Name." - JOHN 1:12 KJV

      January 9, 2011 at 9:29 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Youre Misinformed,

      Before Jesus Christ ascended into Heaven, what did He command the Apostles do? Go out and Baptize all nations, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…this was key! This is the first of the Seven Sacraments. Jesus Christ did not say to the Apostles to ‘make sure that everyone confess with his mouth, as you said or go write the bible down,’…no, He told them to Baptize ALL and the Bible clearly says that if we do not have Christ living in us and us in Him, we do not have life everlasting.

      If a person is doing good and loving his neighbor but is not Baptized, his good works will burn as straw on the last day because we cannot do anything that merits worth in Heaven without Christ working through us…that is how essential Baptism is. If we have Christ in us but do not do the Father’s will we can become as a branch on the vine that is cut off.

      Baptism is a gift and it is not of our doing or ‘saying’ that brings this life to our soul but is a gift of the Holy Spirit. As you quoted: "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be Born Again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." – JOHN 3:3 KJV Read the whole chapter 3…it is short and to the point…it is all about Baptism and how man can receive nothing unless it has been given from heaven. When one is Baptized, one does nothing to receive this gift. Having faith and Baptism go hand in hand. Faith is a gift also.

      A baby can be Baptized because of the faith of the parents. Jesus Christ performed many healings for people who may not have had faith but they were healed by the faith of someone else. Such is baby Baptism. Every Easter we renew our Baptismal vows and are reminded of this great gift from God that we received as a baby or an adult whichever the case may be.

      You quoted: "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVE on His Name." – JOHN 1:12 KJV Yes, chapter one of John is all about John the Baptist who could only Baptize with water and not with water and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit because John was still waiting for Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God who was going to be the One to Baptize with this power of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; John did not have this power and thus he used only water.

      Anyone who receives Baptism certifies God is True, and receives an indelible mark on their soul which can be seen in heaven and in hell and this marks the soul as God's. Satan prefers souls that have this mark because he was able to cause someone to walk away from Christ and come to him in their sin. Sin does not erase this mark. These souls are the ones who refused to confess their sins with their mouth to one another and to repent. No unclean thing will enter heaven and satan will have those souls with mortal sin.

      Remember, satan believes in Jesus but is he saved? Why or why not?

      You said, ‘ While baptism is an important part of the equation, one needs to also say the prayer of Salvation to and about Jesus Christ to truly become Born Again. THAT is what, in essence, gets one Saved when said with a contrite heart and mind before God in prayer. And I did recite that prayer to become Born Again and have been for many years.’

      If someone cannot speak or ‘utter as you say’, woe to that person, right? Let me answer…no, even a comatose person can receive Baptism by the faith of another person…no one saves themselves by their own words…only by the grace of God do we receive this gift of being Born Again.

      January 10, 2011 at 11:18 am |
    • Youre Misinformed

      CatholicMom, once again we enter into this discussion with your belief that Baptism is an important part of being Saved, just the same as I do. However, I have two basic questions for you that are essential in the understanding of why your church or denomination does things differently from how Jesus did them and how the Holy Bible directs.

      Jesus was baptized by Full Immersion into water. The Catholic Church does not do that. Why? They merely place or sprinkle a little water on the person's head and call that a baptism. I'm sorry but given how Jesus was baptized, that form that your church uses is not a valid baptism. Two essential things are needed for a valid baptism. 1. Full immersion of the body into water. 2. The name of Jesus Christ must be said when baptizing a person.

      And again, I need to ask you why your church does not use full immersion as Jesus has done and taught His apostles to do. He did not tell them to sprinkle a few drops of water on a person's head and that they were therefore baptized. Therefore, in order to be correct, we must all follow His example. There is absolutely no argument with the fact that Baptism is important and I have always said that. I too was baptized and believe that to be an essential part of every Christian person's doing as Jesus was baptized. But saying the Prayer to become Born Again is truly essential as the Bible teaches us to do. Why do we not hear of that practice by the Catholic faith?

      Therefore, why does your church not practice Full Immersion into water for baptism as Jesus did?

      And why does your church not teach its parishioners to say the prayer to become Born Again?

      Most assuredly you cannot say that there is anything wrong with saying those most Holy words in order to give your life to Jesus Christ and to Save one's soul and spirit as Scripture tells us to do. Therefore, what is the hesitation on the part of your church to do that, even as the Holy Bible instructs us to do? I will continue to repeat these two basic important questions each time we correspond until I can understand this. Thank you.

      January 10, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
  4. Muneef

    Al-Hijr sura15:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Alif Lam Ra. These are the Ayat of Revelation― of a Qur'an that makes things clear. (1) Again and again will those who disbelieve wish that they had bowed (to Allah's Will) in Islam. (2) Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (3) Never did We destroy a population that had not a term decreed and assigned beforehand. (4) Neither can a people anticipate its Term, nor delay it. (5) They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! Truly thou art mad (or possessed)! (6) "Why bringest thou not angels to us if it be that thou hast the Truth?" (7) We send not the angels down except for just cause: if they came (to the ungodly), behold! no respite would they have! (8) We have, without doubt sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (9) We did send messengers before thee amongst the religious sects of old: (10) But never came an messenger to them but they mocked him. (11) Even so do We let it creep into the hearts of the sinners― (12) That they should not believe in the (Message); but the ways of the ancients have passed away. (13).

    January 7, 2011 at 11:58 am |
    • Muneef

      Al-Qasas sura 28:
      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      Now have We caused the word to reach them themselves, in order that they may receive admonition. (51) Those to whom We sent the Book before this― they― do believe in this (Revelation); (52) And when it is recited to them, they say: "We believe therein for it is the Truth from our Lord: indeed we have been Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will) from before this." (53) Twice will they be given their reward, for that they have persevered, that they avert Evil with Good, and that they spend (in charity) out of what We have given them. (54) And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "To us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ign-or-ant." (55) It is true thou wilt not be able to guide everyone whom thou lovest: but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance. (56).

      Al-Hajj sura 22
      Allah chooses Messengers from angels and from men: for Allah is He Who hears and sees (all things). (75) He knows what is before them and what is behind them: and to Allah go back all questions (for decision). (76) O ye who believe! Bow down, pro-str-ate yourselves, and adore your Lord; and do good; that ye may prosper. (77) And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under di-scip-line): He has chosen you and has im-pos-ed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah! He is your Pro-tec-tor- the- Best to pro-te-ct and the Best to help! (78).

      January 7, 2011 at 12:07 pm |
    • Muneef

      Al-E-Imran sura 03:
      Say: Shall I inform you of something better than that? For those who keep from evil, with their Lord, are Gardens underneath which rivers flow wherein they will abide, and pure companions, and contentment from Allah. Allah is Seer of His bondmen, (15) Those who say: Our Lord! Lo! we believe. So forgive us our sins and guard us from the punishment of Fire; (16) The steadfast, and the truthful, and the obedient, those who spend (and ho-ar-d not), those who pray for pardon in the watches of the night. (17) Allah (Himself) is Witness that there is no God save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no God save Him the Almighty, the Wise. (18) Lo! religion with Allah (is) the Surrender (to His Will and guidance). Those who (formerly) received the Scripture differed only after knowledge came unto them, through trans-gres-sion among themselves. Whoso disbelieveth the revelations of Allah (will find that) lo! Allah is swift at reckoning. (19) And if they argue with thee, (O Muhammad), say: I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and (so have) those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not: Have ye (too) surrendered? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message (unto them). Allah is Seer of (His) bondmen. (20).

      January 7, 2011 at 12:20 pm |
    • Reality

      Muslims demonize themselves via the history of Islam as seen in their founder, an illiterate, hallucinating, warmongering, greedy and lust-filled, long-dead Arab. As long as the Worst Book Ever Written aka koran is the operating manual of Islam, Muslims of any stripe cannot be trusted. And this ladies and gentlemen is why Islam will crash someday in a whirlwind of common sense and rational thinking but first the Five Steps to Deprogram Islam must be promulgated in the Islamic world which at the moment is difficult because of imams and their assassin and terror go-ons who terrorize thinking Muslims and non-Muslims with bombings, stabbings, beheadings and stonings all in the name of allah.

      If you have a Muslim friend/neighbor, please print out a copy of the Five Steps and give it to them.

      January 7, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • Muneef

      Ghafir sura 40:
      "And O my People! how (strange) it is for me to call you to Salvation while ye call me to the Fire! (41) "Ye do call upon me to blaspheme against Allah, and to join with Him Partners of whom I have no knowledge; and I call you to the Exalted in Power, Who forgives again and again!" (42) "Without doubt ye do call me to one who is not fit to be called to, whether in this world, or in the Hereafter; our Return will be to Allah; and the Trans-gre-ssors will be Companions of the Fire! (43) "Soon will ye remember what I say to you (now) My (own) affair I commit to Allah: for Allah (ever) watches over His Servants." (44).

      January 7, 2011 at 1:16 pm |
    • Muneef

      Al-Haaqqa
      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      The Reality! (1) What is the Reality? (2) Ah, what will convey unto thee what the reality is! (3) (The tribes of) Thamud and A'ad disbelieved in the judgment to come. (4) As for Thamud, they were destroyed by the lightning. (5) And as for A'ad, they were destroyed by a fierce roaring wind, (6) Which He imposed on them for seven long nights and eight long days so that thou mightest have seen men lying overthrown, as they were hollow trunks of palm-trees. (7) Canst thou (O Muhammad) see any remnant of them? (8) And Pharaoh and those before him, and the communities that were destroyed, brought error, (9) And they disobeyed the messenger of their Lord, therefor did He grip them with a tightening grip. (10) Lo! when the waters rose, We carried you upon the ship (11) That We might make it a memorial for you, and that remembering ears (that heard the story) might remember. (12) And when the trumpet shall sound one blast (13) And the earth with the mountains shall be lifted up and crushed with one crash, (14) Then, on that day will the Event befall. (15) And the heaven will split asunder, for that day it will be frail. (16) And the angels will be on the sides thereof, and eight will uphold the Throne of thy Lord that day, above them. (17) On that day ye will be exposed; not a secret of you will be hidden. (18) Then, as for him who is given his record in his right hand, he will say: Take, read my book! (19) Surely I knew that I should have to meet my reckoning. (20) Then he will be in blissful state (21) In a high Garden (22) Whereof the clusters are in easy reach. (23) (And it will be said unto those therein): Eat and drink at ease for that which ye sent on before you in past days. (24) But as for him who is given his record in his left hand, he will say: Oh, would that I had not been given my book (25) And knew not what my reckoning is! (26) Oh, would that it had been death! (27) My wealth hath not availed me, (28) My power hath gone from me. (29) (It will be said): Take him and fetter him (30) And then expose him to hell-fire (31) And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. (32) Lo! He used not to believe in Allah the Tremendous, (33) And urged not on the feeding of the wretched. (34) Therefor hath he no lover here this day, (35) Nor any food save filth (36) Which none but sinners eat. (37) But nay! I swear by all that ye see (38) And all that ye see not (39) That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger. (40) It is not poet's speech – little is it that ye believe! (41) Nor diviner's speech – little is it that ye remember! (42) It is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds. (43) And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us, (44) We assuredly had taken him by the right hand (45) And then severed his life-artery, (46) And not one of you could have held Us off from him. (47) And lo! it is a warrant unto those who ward off (evil). (48) And lo! We know that some among you will deny (it). (49) And lo! it is indeed an anguish for the disbelievers. (50) And lo! it is absolute truth. (51) So glorify the name of thy Tremendous Lord. (52)

      January 7, 2011 at 7:18 pm |
  5. Reality

    Hmmmm!!!! From http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/.../nun-cured-pope-parkinsons-ill

    "It was the miracle that set Pope John Paul II on the road to sainthood and provided faithful followers with proof of his holy powers. But hopes that the former pope's canonisation would be fast-tracked by Sister Marie Simon-Pierre's recovery from Parkinson's disease have been set back by reports that the French nun has fallen ill again.

    Simon-Pierre described three years ago how she regained her health after a night of prayer to the then recently deceased Polish pontiff. John Paul also suffered from Parkinson's disease, which is incurable.

    "It's like a second birth," she said at the time. "I feel like I've discovered a new body, new limbs."

    In 2007 Simon-Pierre could barely move her left side, could not write legibly, drive or move around easily and was in constant pain.

    Her disease worsened after the pope's death, and her order prayed for his intervention to ease her suffering. Then after writing his name on a paper one night, she woke up the next day apparently cured and returned to work as a maternity nurse with no traces of the disease.

    But according to the Polish daily newspaper Rzeczpospolita, one of the doctors charged with scrutinising the nun's case believed she might have been suffering from a similar nervous disease, not Parkinson's, which could go into sudden remission. A report on the paper's website went further, saying that the 49-year-old nun had become sick again with the same illness.

    The Vatican was making no comment on the grounds that the late pope's case was still under examination.

    Although no date has been fixed for the late pope's beatification, there had been an expectation that it would be announced in mid-October. His case was fast-tracked by his successor, Pope Benedict, and the anniversary of John Paul's election falls on 16 October.

    The first sign that all might not be as it should be came when the Vatican fixed the canonisation of six new saints for the following day, a Sunday, making a beatification the same weekend impossible.

    Vatican sources stressed that the panel of doctors which will examine the evidence relating to Simon-Pierre's recovery was not due to meet until April, when it will consider a report by two medical experts.

    Beatification is an intermediate step on the road to canonisation, though not all of those declared "blessed" go on to become saints. Beatification requires at least one miracle. A second is needed for sainthood.

    The Vatican, whose congregation [department] for the cause of saints deals with canonisations and beatifications, has been under relentless pressure to speed up John Paul's progress. On the day of his funeral in 2005 there were unparalleled scenes in St Peter's Square, when the crowd took up a chant of "santo subito", or "saint straightaway".

    This story was later reported by the nun's superiors as being only a rumor. Maybe CNN could find this "cured" nun and give us a secular analysis? And maybe some old footage of the nun before she got "sick"? Strange that these contemporary miracles involve hard to diagnose diseases but never involve something like replacing an arm or leg or curing Downs-Syndrome.

    January 7, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • HotAirAce

      I came across numerous copies of this article when I looked for supporting information about the previous pope-a-dope's alledged healing powers. I didn't post a reference to it 'cause I couldn't find another independent report.

      But, I also could not find anything supporting the miracle itself, or even the names of the medical experts or the nun's medical records. Yes, I understand medical records should be confidential, but I figured someone, on either side of the argument, might have leaked them and they might lead to the medical experts. I did see an article that quoted or referred to a church spokesperson who said the whole thing is done very secretly, so we may never see the facts.

      There's also lots of stories about a second miracle by jpii – a gunshot to the head victim, but again, I couldn't find anything definitive or independent.

      January 7, 2011 at 12:51 am |
    • Frogist

      Trust Reality to do the leg work! I'm starting a new religion based on Reality's research skills.

      January 7, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
  6. tallulah13

    It never ceases to amaze me that Christians accuse atheists of being angry. I suppose it's the only way that they can wrap their minds around the fact that not everyone believes as they do. Silly.

    January 7, 2011 at 12:32 am |
    • Frogist

      @tallulah13: It is often an upset believer's only way to hit back or score points. They have so thoroughly convinced themselves that anyone living outside their religion (which they define as "love") must be angry, or unloving. Truth is they are most likely projecting their own feelings onto the situation. They are angry that someone would dare question the "truth" of their position. But since they are in a position of "love", they can't be the angry ones. The only answer must be that the ones who question them are angry. It's a fascinating tactic.
      What I find even more enjoyable, is that they consider anyone who questions them, atheists. They haven't recognized that some of us are not strictly so. We just find it hard to believe the statements they are making, whether we believe in gods or not. It's, quite frankly, a little prejudiced. They strike out by calling us the worst thing they can think of, whether it's true or not.

      January 7, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
  7. Anglican

    @HotAirAce. I have no problem with evolution or big bang or other current theories regarding our earth and the universe. Sounds like you do not know many Christians. I do not pick and choose. I use my God given brain to try to understand our world. I am so sorry I have regressed in your presence. I am new to this Belief blog that you just can't stay away from. Maybe you want to believe.

    January 6, 2011 at 8:14 pm |
  8. Anglican

    HotAirAce. I am a very big fan of Sagan. I did not mean anything negative about my response to peter. You sure are an angry one. Peace.

    January 6, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      @Anglican

      I did not say you said anything negative. What you said was unneccessary.

      How can you be a Sagan fan and still be a believer – he pretty much dismissed your god. Or do you just pick the bits of his books and life you like and discard the rest, much like christians pick and choose the bits of their book of silliness they want to pay attention to and be held accountable to? Yes, we all pick and choose in many areas, but "believe vs non-believe" seems to be a pretty big issue to you.

      And again, I say that I am not the least bit angry – amused yes, angry no.

      Also, I was going to congratulate you on finding the Reply feature, but it appears that you've regressed.

      January 6, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
  9. peter

    Off the subject but Carl Sagan is awesome!!!!! =)

    January 6, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • Anglican

      Was awesome.

      January 6, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      @Anglican

      Any rational person would know that anyone who is a fan of Carl Sagan most likely knows that he is dead and that they are most likely referring to his writings. But as you seem to prefer to be pedantic, please explain how you *know* that Carl Sagan is not in one of your imaginary places and still with us in some form?

      January 6, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
  10. Anglican

    I believe creation was not simply an accident. I believe that without a greater purpose to and in this life, creation is essentially and fundamentally unnecessary. I believe that love of neighbor is also not an accident. I believe that the ability to see and seek justice, as well as the ability to see beauty is not accident. I believe that hope is no accident as well. (I know you will say it is all hormonal and all neurological) I believe in the Creator God, that by no accident, created you and me, and the garden in which we live. I believe in love of God, and love of neighbor.

    January 6, 2011 at 4:05 pm |
  11. Anglican

    @Know what. Respectively, I ask, give me proof my Lord does not exist. What facts do you have against His existence. I ask this with great respect.

    January 6, 2011 at 3:37 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I have stopped asking believers to provide proof of their imaginary beings because I have concluded that after more than 2000 years of believers trying to establish same, that there is no such proof and that they do not exist. That being said, believers are making the extraordinary claims (that such beings exist and that their books of tribal myths are the word of their god(s)), so the burden of proof is upon the believers. I would be interested in your argument if it is new and does not fall into the "my book of magic is true because my book of magic says it is true" circular logic bucket.

      January 6, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • Know What

      Anglican,

      The burden of proof is on the one who claims something to be a fact. If I claim that there is an invisible polka-dot cat sitting on my shoulder, I must prove that it is true.

      – and –

      "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" – Carl Sagan

      January 6, 2011 at 3:51 pm |
  12. Anglican

    @HotAirAce Why are you so angry? Why would you ever go to a faith blog or even comment on PJPII? I think you want to believe in something, otherwise, why waste you time?

    January 6, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • Know What

      Not offering opposing facts and viewpoints can lead these people to believe that their ideas are accepted and true.

      January 6, 2011 at 3:33 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      @Anglican

      I am not the least bit angry – if anything, religion causes me to be giggly.

      I posted my reasons for participating here above, but here they are again:

      "In summary form:

      – keep an eye on the crazies
      – correct erroneous statements
      – provide alternative view to sky daddy religions
      – entertainment provided by mental gymnastics of believers propping up their books of silliness"

      In closing, and recognizing that this is not the best blog so-ft-ware and occasionally Replies do not get posted as Replies but this seems to happen when there are multiple hundreds of comments and things seem to be working thus far, please learn to use "Reply" rather than "Post" as it makes it much easier for all to follow a conversation/point/thread.

      January 6, 2011 at 3:51 pm |
  13. Anglican

    @ Know What. Ever thought you may be a slight bit paranoid? I am sure there are some well trained mental health providers in our area. What has a "crazy Christian" ever done to you?

    January 6, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • Anglican

      Sorry. Had to reset cookies.

      January 6, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      @Anglican

      Why do you think "Know What" was referring to christians? Perhaps you are the paranoid one.

      And re: mental health providers, you do know that there are ones that specialize in dealing with adults who cannot let go over their childish tribal myths and imaginary beings, aka "religion," don't you?

      January 6, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • Know What

      Anglican,

      Sorry, I am not the one who speaks to imaginary beings... and more delusionally, hears them talk back.

      (I hate this "I Know You Are, But What Am I" retort; but that is the level that you have set here and I don't think that you would understand any other).

      January 6, 2011 at 3:30 pm |
  14. Anglican

    @Know What. You would not be a slight bit paranoid, would you? There are probably some very good mental health providers near you. You need help.

    January 6, 2011 at 3:07 pm |
  15. Anglican

    I still do not understand why so many atheist waste there academic and all knowing time on a faith blog. If the faithful are all crazy, why do you even care?

    January 6, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • Know What

      Crazy people on the loose endanger me and mine... and the entire world. That's why.

      January 6, 2011 at 2:46 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      In summary form:

      – keep an eye on the crazies
      – correct erroneous statements
      – provide alternative view to sky daddy religions
      – entertainment provided by mental gymnasticts of believers propping up their books of silliness

      January 6, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Frogist

      LOL@Hot Air Ace! Succint summary!

      January 7, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
  16. Kim

    I was born into a Catholic family and will stay. I do believe in Jesus Christ. You don't need to be Born again.... As long as you pray and do good and believe. Isn't that the most important!!!! I think that this discussion or argument is useless... Christian against Catholic, or Mormon or Jehovah witness you only believe in what you want to believe and than you have the non believers that put us all down.... No win situation for everyone!

    January 6, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • cheif

      great comment ... as a catholic just make up what you want .... HA HA HA... i now know how it stays in business. you may want to read that book that Christianity is based on .... "You don't need to be Born again.... "

      January 6, 2011 at 2:06 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Kim,
      Being 'born again' is accomplished through the sacrament of Baptism. Google: ‘Catechism of the Catholic Church…Baptism’.

      January 6, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
  17. cheif

    ARE YOU CATHOLICS totally insane ... please dont call yourself Christian if you believe this crap "credited John Paul II with the healing of a nun whose order prayed to him after he died in 2005. Sister Marie-Simon-Pierre says she was cured of Parkinson's disease.

    A nun prayed to his dead rear end and got healed? HA HA HA ...... Oh no.,.. no pagan worship there

    January 6, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
  18. raoul

    I have been reading all the opinions stated here. Seems that there is great disagreement how to address the issue of saimthood qualifications. Some think thepope is a diety. Others think he was really swell. There are other possibilities here. We could team him up with zeus up on mount olympus. I think the pope certainly deserves a few lightning bolts to toss around. Or we could create a new category of recognition. Something like palhood. The pope was a great pal to the people, so lets fraternize him into palhood.

    January 6, 2011 at 11:29 am |
  19. JT

    The definition of a saint is my mother. This old goat should be ridiculed and laughed at for the buffoon that is was. His deluded, gullible followers should be ridiculed as well.

    January 6, 2011 at 11:00 am |
    • brad

      'old goat', you say. Stalin asked the sarcastic question " How many divisions does the Pope have?" Turns out the "old goat" helped bring down the Soviet empire without firing a shot. When you and I become old goats, will we be able to even geet out of bed?

      January 6, 2011 at 11:14 am |
  20. Kim

    You can put down Catholic religion all you want, but you will never break us!!!! Idiots like all of you have been trying for 2000 years. We are still around and we will keep believing, praying, and loving God. I love John Paul II and will always love him. Nothing you say will make us change our mind. Bring our church down, bring our crosses down... we will keep praying...

    January 6, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • JT

      You're the exact type of delusional sheep that keeps this criminal organization going. They are depending on you and others like you. You still paying in your hush money to keep pedophile central operating?

      January 6, 2011 at 10:56 am |
    • Youre Misinformed

      And in the end, if you do not adhere to what The Holy Bible says about being "Born Again" that is giving your life to Jesus Christ, accepting Him as the One and Only Son of God, accepting the fact that He died for us and resurrected, and asking for forgiveness so that you can truly enter the Kingdom of Heaven, you and others will only fool yourselves into thinking that just by following a denomination and praying to deceased saints, popes, reading missalets, etc. will save your souls. It will not. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ as is outlined in The Holy Bible by becoming Born Again. That is something Catholics apparently shun or do not care to listen to. Therefore, such souls remain in limbo until they do as the Holy Bible teaches and not the Catholic missalets! We will truly pray that those who are now blind to this will soon see the Truth in it.

      January 6, 2011 at 11:11 am |
    • cheif

      other forms of idol worship are older..... please dont confuse catholic with Chrtistians...

      January 6, 2011 at 12:12 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Youre Misinformed,

      Try to remember that it is the Catholic Church who gave you the Bible. How did the Catholic Church put the Books of the Bible together? She recognized Herself in the Inspired Word!

      Do you know that through the Sacrament of Baptism is how one is born again? Protestants tried to distance themselves from the Catholic Church; over-time, and with their private interpretations [what does the Bible say about that…2 Peter 1:20] they came up with their way of saying what ‘born again’ means which excludes the Sacrament of Baptism.

      Why did Jesus Christ COMMAND the Apostles to go out and Baptize all nations? It was not for a frivolous reason! Some have said that being baptized is just ‘our way of showing we are ready to serve the congregation!’ How misinformed....!

      The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. That is the Truth.

      January 6, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Annie

      Catholic Mom is correct. To be born again is referring to Baptism. Through Baptism, we are born to Eternal Life. Catholics believe in Baptism. John the Baptist baptized Jesus even though it was unnecessary since Jesus is God. But God wanted to show us through Jesus' Baptism that only through Baptism can we live with Him for all Eternity. Baptism is the first of our seven sacraments. If you read the Bible then you are reading the word of God. If you research back through the history of the Popes you will find that the first Pope was 'Peter'. Peter was anointed the first Pope of the Catholic Church by Jesus. Jesus told Peter that He would build His Church upon this 'Rock' which was Peter. For those who believe, Jesus opens their eyes to the Truth. No other Church, but the Catholic Church, has the four marks of the true Church which are 'One, Holy, Catholic (which means 'universal'), and Apostolic'. All other Churches have been man-made following the Protestant Reformation.

      January 6, 2011 at 11:01 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.

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