January 15th, 2011
09:20 PM ET

Former Anglican bishops ordained as Catholic priests in new program

Marking a new era for the Roman Catholic Church in England, three former Anglican bishops were ordained as Catholic priests in London on Saturday, the first to take advantage of a new Vatican program that makes it easier for dissatisfied Anglicans to enter Catholicism.

"Many ordinations have taken place in this Cathedral during the 100 years of its history," said Westminster Archbishop Vincent Nichols Saturday at Westminster Cathedral. "But none quite like this."

"Today is a unique occasion marking a new step in the life and history of the Catholic Church," he said at the ordination ceremony.

Announced in 2009, the Catholic Church program enables Anglicans to become Catholic and recognize the pope as their leader, yet have parishes that retain Anglican rites, Vatican officials have said.

The move came some 450 years after King Henry VIII broke from Rome and created the Church of England, forerunner of the Anglican Communion.

The parishes will be led by former Anglican clergy - including those who are married - who could be ordained as Catholic priests, according to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

The move comes as some conservative Anglicans are taking issue with their church's increasingly progressive stances on issues like women bishops and homosexuality.

"This journey, of course, involves some sad parting of friends," Nichols said Saturday, acknowledging the new rift among Anglicans. "This, too, we recognize and it strengthens the warmth of our welcome."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Anglican • Catholic Church • Europe • United Kingdom

soundoff (257 Responses)
  1. religion.blogs.cnn.com

    Former anglican bishops ordained as catholic priests in new program.. Huh, really? 🙂

    April 19, 2011 at 1:19 pm |
  2. Trinity Verity

    There are several Anglican Use Catholic Parishes, Missions, and Societies throughout America that are watching the news from the UK and awaiting the erection of an Anglican Use Ordinariate in the United States. One such society is here in the Washington, DC/Northern Virginia area. We're called the St. Thomas of Canterbury Anglican Use Society of Washington, DC and Northern Virginia and have evening prayer and vespers at St. Anselm's Abbey in DC. stthomascanterbury dot org We are expecting to have an Anglican Use Mass on March 19th and all are invited.

    February 3, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
  3. BellaDona

    Thank You Gerald. God Bless You, Friend!

    January 19, 2011 at 9:10 pm |
    • gerald

      God bless you as well.

      January 19, 2011 at 9:53 pm |
  4. BellaDona

    Regarding that condescending post you mentioned by me, I agree, that did sound rather crass, and I will take a lesson and be more careful in how I word things. I am sorry you and I got off on a bad foot, perhaps it was my
    fault that we got off on a bad foot.
    I did try in one of my other posts to you, to say I was sorry for offending anyone, However, it is not my wish to beat this over and over.
    I think as Christians, we would both be more pleasing to the Lord, if we bury the hatchet, and it is with sincereity, I apologise for ANY and ALL words I may have used to offend you. My feelings were a bit hurt by somethings you said, but I am willing to overlook and forgive that, wether it was meant or said in anger,
    Lets try and be friends, what say you?

    January 19, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • gerald

      Never was offended. I apologize for any offense. No problem.

      January 19, 2011 at 8:25 pm |
  5. BellaDona

    Goodness.....Gerald. that post above is from me. I accidentally typed your name in the box where my name should have went! Sorry!

    January 19, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
  6. Gerald

    Regarding that condescending post you mentioned by me, I agree, that did sound rather crass, and I will take a lesson and be more careful in how I word things. I am sorry you and I got off on a bad foot, perhaps it was my
    fault that we got off on a bad foot.
    I did try in one of my other posts to you, to say I was sorry for offending anyone, However, it is not my wish to beat this over and over.
    I think as Christians, we would both be more pleasing to the Lord, if we bury the hatchet, and it is with sincereity, I apologise for ANY and ALL words I may have used to offend you. My feelings were a bit hurt by somethings you said, but I am willing to overlook and forgive that, wether it was meant or said in anger,
    Lets try and be friends, what say you?

    January 19, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
  7. gerald

    "I think one of the reason's we disagree, is because Catholics believe they are saved by Baptism."

    Baptism is an obedient response to the call to faith. Peter says "baptism now saves you" so we agree with Peter that one receives the Holy Spirit at baptism (acts 2:38-29) and enters a state of grace by which he is "saved". Now we don't believe in Once Baptized Always Saved however.

    January 19, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
  8. BellaDona

    Hi Steve!
    Spoken like the good man you are! I LOVE your positive at-ti-tude...your light does shine, Brother!
    Let's hope that is the case (Gerald)

    January 19, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • gerald

      His light does shine. I agree. He is quite able to discuss and give his own thoughts.

      January 19, 2011 at 1:10 pm |
  9. BellaDona

    Gerald, Just a thought you may want to consider...

    What if someone were limited on thier ability to type, (say severe carple tunnel, a broken hand, etc) and all they could do was hit a key here or there, but wanted to spread the word of the Lord, thus using a "website" that represented thier view. Would you still have the nerve to call them down? God forbid, man, you have alot of humbling to do before God.
    Mayby CatholicMom can teach you some good Catholic Manners!

    No need to respond, just thought I would leave an eternal parting thought. I am sure it isn't your intent to hurt others, I don't think. Mayby this is just the way you are in your expressions.
    But, use some consideration when you form opinions. You may actually draw people to the one you represent. Nasty doesn't do much.

    January 19, 2011 at 10:47 am |
    • Steve the real one


      I just think Gerald is as passionate about his faith as we are about ours! Sometimes in our passion we respond stronger than we think we do! I really don't think it is intentional! I hope not anyway, right Gerald??

      January 19, 2011 at 11:10 am |
    • gerald


      January 19, 2011 at 12:55 pm |
    • gerald

      Do you have a handicap that prevents you from typing? If so then I apologize. If not dump trucking is a term used for copying and pasting from other websites, not referencing them (as if they are your own) and posting tons of info that is not in your own words. Your posts come off to me as potentially just as rude as mine at times if I were a person who was easily offended. For instance that little "shake the dust" comment. That was rude if I were a person to be offended. You would be responding in kind.

      January 19, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
    • gerald

      I see no evidence from above that you can't type. This from you is easily as insulting and belittling and condescending as anything I have posted if I were a person who was easily offended.

      If you are comfortable being in a church that follows the word of man, and not of God, that is your choice. Don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise.
      I will believe what the word of GOD says. I don't need to be subject to what "infallible" popes have decided for me, but what GOD has decided.
      You need to get your eyes on God, and your heart open to his truth, and off the "catholic" beliefs...which are in conflict with the Gospel of Christ!"

      Ya sure, I know the Bible says one thing and the CC says another but I follow the CC anyway. Ridiculous. Seems you need "infallible" websites to do your talking for you.

      January 19, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
  10. BellaDona

    Thanks Steve, See you around! God Bless!

    Thanks CatholicMom, I will keep it in mind. Thanks for being kind, you represent your faith well.

    Gerald, You are a nasty person. Sorry. Had to say. Glad you are in Church...mayby it will help get the chinks out of your armor.!!

    January 19, 2011 at 10:35 am |
    • gerald

      Nobody who knows me thinks I am nasty. Protestants and Catholics, coworkers and associates. I have just learned to be thick skinned in defending my faith. You evidently have not done this for long and are thin skinned. Maybe you shouldn't try to debate people until you can take what you dish out.

      January 19, 2011 at 1:07 pm |
    • gerald

      Your judgment of lack of it does little to bother me.

      January 19, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
  11. CatholicMom

    It is difficult to follow what you are trying to say when you use so many different sites with varying ideas that do not make a cohesive thought. If you could find just one that speaks to the same ideas as you have on every single issue then go with that one. Jumping from this one to that one, while all protestant, each author has his own twist to it which can contradict what you are trying to say. Maybe just put something in your own words and let it come from your heart; it will carry more ‘weight’ with your posting friends.
    Thanks for all your time and effort.

    January 18, 2011 at 11:38 pm |
  12. BellaDona

    Steve.... God Bless You and I hope to see you on these threads somewhere soon again!
    It is time for me to depart this thread.....time for me to do a little "dust shakin" ,lol!

    January 18, 2011 at 11:28 pm |
    • gerald

      I did that last night.

      January 19, 2011 at 9:09 am |
    • Steve the real one

      Hi BellaDona! May God richly bless you as well! I am enjoying al of this! Thanks!

      January 19, 2011 at 10:14 am |
  13. BellaDona

    I am disappointed too. I spent several hours trying to make sure I answered (and yes, using some of my foldered items) to try and present to you answers that I thought would help you to understand my reasons for believeing as I do.
    That is what you do? Telling me you don't have time to read "dumptrucks" from websites? I took time away from my family tonight, to address those posts, but I guess that doesn't make a difference to you either.
    Gerald, in all due respects, I am done talking with you.
    God knows I have tried my best to answer your questions, but I am done. Please go straight to the Lord with your inquiries, or just believe as you do. Your ingrat-itude and rudeness far outweigh anything I can do or say anyhow.
    May you find the truth, or if you believe you have it, so be it.
    As a Christian sister, I do wish you well, and may God Bless!

    January 18, 2011 at 10:57 pm |
    • gerald

      80% of what you posted last night was cut and pastes from websites. Go to any Christian message boards and you will find that their rules forbid dump trucking. That is the term for what you did. It is rude to do it. Sorry. If I want to read websites I will go to them.

      January 19, 2011 at 9:13 am |
  14. CatholicMom


    you said, ‘We honor Peter and in fact some of our churches are named after him, but he was not the first pope, nor was he Roman Catholic. If you read his first letter, you will see that he did not teach a Roman hierarchy, but that all Christians are royal priests. The same keys given to Peter in Matthew 16 are given to the whole church of believers in Matthew 18’

    What is it that you do with the keys? What have you done?

    January 18, 2011 at 10:35 pm |
    • BellaDona

      Cathoilic Mom

      If you go back up there and re read the post, you will see I already addressed that. I explained that it was showing an example of what the Lutheran theologists had said.

      January 18, 2011 at 11:15 pm |
  15. gerald

    Sorry Bella but I am highly dissapointed. First of all it does not seem that you have read, considered, and addressed my questions. Secondly I took the time to write my answers and quote and illude to scripture. I have considered it carefully and prayed as well. If you want to and can have a dialogue that would be great but I simply dont have time for dump trucks from websites. Sorry.

    January 18, 2011 at 10:33 pm |
  16. BellaDona

    Gerald said:



    I look forward to your reply.
    BellaDona Thank You!

    Please be sure and answer the question of if it is finished means Christ finished it all on the cross 2000 years ago and nothing more has to be done, then why do we have to repent now and put out lives in his hands now.Why doesn't everyone go to heaven if it is finished means that our sins were washed clean 2000 years ago? Did he only die for some of the sins of mankind? These are the most pressing questions I have for you and Steve.

    Jesus Christ died for ALL of mankind.

    The regenerated spirit of the Christian is alive and in perfect submission to the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit is God. (Acts 5:3,4).

    The Holy Spirit is not a power, a force or an energy; He is a person. As a person, He has feelings (Ephesians 4:30), a mind of infinite knowledge (Romans 8:26,27) and a will. He speaks. (Acts 13:2; John 16:13). A force or power does not have these attributes and abilities.

    The Holy Spirit is called "the Spirit of Truth" (John 16:13). He always speaks truth. He doesn't like lies. He loves to bless people of truth and honesty.

    The Holy Spirit is also called "the Comforter" (John 14:26). He communicates the comfort and healing love of the Father to our hearts, giving us encouragement, joy and spiritual pleasure especially in times of trial and difficulty.

    Also known as "the Spirit of God" and "the Spirit of the Lord", the Holy Spirit is the one who gives and inspires wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge and the fear of the Lord (Isaiah 11:2).


    He convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:8). Without this special work of the Holy Spirit people would not be deeply convinced of their sinfulness, God's righteousness or the coming judgment. Therefore in communicating the Word of God to others we must depend on the Holy Spirit to convince people of these truths. We may say what the Word says on these issues but it is the Holy Spirit who will do the convicting.

    He guides us into all truth (John 16:13). If we allow ourselves to be guided by Him, He will indeed show us what the truths from the Bible we need to understand. Being the author of the Bible, He is best qualified to interpret it to us. He will show us many things both directly from the Word but also through other means. What He shows cannot be the mere product of logic and reason, although it is not illogical. We must realise that the Holy Spirit never guides us in any way contrary to the Holy Scriptures. We must not believe every spirit claiming to be from God, but test the spirits according to the standard of the Holy Scriptures.

    He regenerates (John 3:5,6). When a person turns to Christ for salvation and trusts Christ from the heart, the Holy Spirit is involved. At this time, the Holy Spirit causes the spirit of that person to be made new. (2 Corinthians 5:17). The human spirit, once dead in sin, is regenerated or made new by the power and working of the Holy Spirit. This is what it means to be born of the Spirit.

    He glorifies Christ (John 16:14). The Holy Spirit always works to bring glory and honour to Jesus Christ. He does not seek His own glory, but the glory of Jesus. He does this by revealing who Jesus is to us and through us so that all may praise Jesus. He makes Jesus real to people, by bringing the resources and reality of Jesus to the people on earth.

    He reveals Christ to us and in us (John 16:14,15). Jesus said, "He will take of what is mine and declare it to you". It is the Holy Spirit who communicates to our soul the knowledge of who Jesus is and what He is like. At the same time He works to form the nature of Christ in us also. Being filled with the Holy Spirit in our body and soul, our nature is changed into the nature of the Son of God.

    He is our leader – willing to lead us (Romans 8:14). "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the [mature] sons of God". The word for son here is the word for a mature son. Indeed, the only way to Christian maturity is to be led by the Spirit. It is not following a path determined by ourselves and our understanding of God's laws that will make us mature Christians, but the path in which He, the Spirit, leads us. We need the Spirit to be mature. Maturity is more than knowledge, it is fruit that comes from relationship with the Spirit of God.

    He sanctifies. The Holy Spirit is given that we might be holy. It is the Holy Spirit who, working together with the word of God in our minds, sanctifies us. This means He sets us apart for God, cleanses us and puts us in order so that we can more truly show forth the love of God and the nature of Jesus. Holiness is the work of the Spirit. It is not a work based on self- effort or "trying harder". Our part is to believe God's word, and to yield to the leadings of the Spirit. It is by the Spirit however that our sanctification is achieved. This process of sanctification occurs mainly in the soul – the mind, the will and the emotions. "Sanctification is possessing the mind of Christ, and all of the mind of Christ." – John Wesley. It happens more or less rapidly depending on how we learn to yield to God, to change our thinking so that it centres on God's love and God's Word, and persist in prayer.

    He empowers. "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you; and you will be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." (Acts 1:8). The power we receive from Him is power to preach and demonstrate the gospel of the kingdom of God, not in word only, but in power. (1 Corinthians 4:20). Paul said that his message and preaching were not with the persuasive words of human wisdom, but with the demonstration of the SPIRIT and of POWER, that your faith should not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. (1 Corinthians 2:4).

    I hope this answers your questions Gerald. Sincerely, BellaDona

    January 18, 2011 at 9:30 pm |
    • gerald

      Sorry. I don't have time to read dump trucks of cuts and pastes from other websites. Nor answer them.

      January 18, 2011 at 10:22 pm |
  17. BellaDona


    Bella, Steve,

    Both of you seem to believe that everything was done 2000 years ago. If "it is finished" means that Christ did it all back then. If once for all means there can be no purgatory today then why does anyone have to repent today? Why doesn't eveyone just go to heaven because 2000 years ago when Christ said "it is finished" it was all done. And then why do some go to hell if Christ finished it 2000 years ago
    Gerald, What Jesus did 2000 years ago, is still active today and tomorrow. People need to repent today, because we are sinners and people are born everyday, and thus need to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ for thier sins, so they may have eternal life with him in Heaven. People still go to Hell, because they are living willfully in thier sin, and do not acknowledge the wonderful gift of the atonement that was done for them.

    . No it is quite clear that the interpretation of "It is finished" and "once for all" is incorrect. The grace of Christ must be brought forward to hear and now and our lives. It is present in our lives before we come to him, moving us toward him, it is present when we come to faith, and when we are baptized, being cleansed from our sin, and it is present throughout our lives preventing us from sin but also picking us up when we fall in to sin. And if our works are burned up at our judgment it is the agent that will save us "but as if through fire" in purgatory. It is grace that was earned on the cross but it again must be brought forward and applied to the wounds of sin. There is no denial of atonement at all. Christ fully atoned for the sins of every human being on earth. Yet some go to hell because they do not repent and let that sin work in their lives every day. Again saying we deny the atonement is putting up a straw man and bowling it over because we see everything as being directly tied to what Christ did on the cross. Without him we can do nothing. In him we can do all things.

    Based on my study of the scriptures,prayerfully and asking for the leading and understanding by the Holy Spirit, it is my heartfelt belief that everything DID start at the cross, and end at the cross.
    I think I can safely say, that both Steve and myself, have presented scripture to back up why we believe as we do, regarding this.
    I think one of the reason's we disagree, is because Catholics believe they are saved by Baptism. Yes, I have read the CC on this. It states:
    The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beat-itude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
    In each case, when Jesus gave the command to the Apostles to go out and Baptise all nations, he said he would give them the Holy Spirit, this was always preceeded by accepting Jesus as Saviour ...
    In the case of the Philippian ja-iler Acts16:30 31, who asked Paul and Silas, Sirs, What must I do to be saved? They anwsered and said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
    So, here we see that SALVATION preceeds Baptism...
    Jesus had not yet died on the cross, but there was ressurection power in his words...Believe on me...
    So, the disciples Baptised after the the person BELIEVED on the Lord.

    "I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adver-saries shall not be able to resist."
    and Mark 13:11 –
    "And when they shall lead you and deliver you up, be not thoughtful beforehand what you shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, say that. For it is not you that speak, but the Holy Spirit."
    John 17:18-21,
    "As you have sent men into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. And not only for them do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me. That they all may be one, as you Father, in me, and I in you; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me."
    Here Jesus speaks of that mission where He became man for the salvation of mankind, to which also the apostles, and their representatives were to co-operate, as the ministers and instruments of Christ, by virtue of their mission from Him. For the same intention as Christ Himself was sent, the apostles were sent also, and is why St. Paul says, "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, and he has placed in us the word of reconciliation." (2 Corinthians 5:19).
    John 20:21-2,
    "Jesus said therefore to them again: Peace be with you. As the Father has sent and is sending me, so I am sending you. And when he said this, he breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them, whose sins you may retain, they have and are being retained.'"

    Matthew 28:18-20,
    "And Jesus drew near and spoke to them saying, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you all days, even unto the consu-mmation of the world."
    Mark 16:15,
    "And he said to them, "Go into the whole world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptised shall be saved, but he who does not believe shall be condemned
    NOTE: HE THAT BELIEVES and is Baptised....
    It does not say He who is BAPTISED and believes
    Jesus also says: BEHOLD, I AM WITH YOU ALL OF THE DAYS, EVEN TO THE CONSUMMATION OF THE WORLD. So, what was done 2000 years ago, lasts till the end of time on Earth.
    After we are Baptised, being immersed in water, signifying the Death of our old selves, and being raised a new creature in Christ, and we recieve the Holy Spirit.
    Note that John the Baptist said "Repent and Be Baptised" Repentance (believe on the Lord and then the Baptism)

    January 18, 2011 at 8:55 pm |
    • gerald

      Sorry. I don't have time to read dump trucks of cuts and pastes from other websites.

      January 18, 2011 at 10:22 pm |
  18. BellaDona

    For more on Gehenna go here Also check this out, an excellent commentary" To perish or not to perish"


    January 18, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
  19. BellaDona

    Hi Gerald Catholic Mom and Steve!
    I am going to jump ahead in my post here, but will definitely go back and answer the ones that I said I would eralier today. (The ones from Gerald)
    I hope I can contribute for Gerald and Catholic Mom, what Steve and I believe.

    I am going to try to put purgatory in perspective, as we see it.

    First, it is correct, there is no mention of purgatory in the bible. It does not exist as a place. From what I have figured , it is a state of a place where some believe you are purged, as no sin can enter heaven. According to the Catholic Catechism, this is how its defined.
    Purgatory is the state in which those suffer for a time who die guilty of venial sins, or without having satisfied for the punishment due to thier sins. (Baltimore Catechism No. 1, Q. 414)

    Now, Lets look at the scriipture, 1 Cor chapter3 v13 15
    . It says: 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    All spiritually, regenerated Christians have a new spirit, and they will get a new soul and a new body. The Christian gets his new spirit when he is regenerated and believes that Jesus died for him. The Christian is commanded to lose or crucify his soul in this life. This means he must die to self, put off the old man, walk in newness of life, enter into life, renew his mind, walk in the Spirit, walk in the light, put on the new man, and a myriad of other clauses that describe the work that a Christian must do to realize the salvation of his soul.
    If the Christian does this, then he has a new soul or life controlled by the Holy Spirit. If he does not do this, then his soul will perish at the Judgment Seat of Christ, and he will be hurt by the second death. In his new body, which will be totally obedient to the Holy Spirit, this Christian will be completely conformed to the image of Christ, so he will have a new soul. Unfortunately, he will lose his reward of entering into the king’s dominion. The loss of the soul at the Judgment Seat of Christ pertains to the loss of reward and not to his final destination. All Christians go to heaven. All Christians get a new soul. All Christians get a new body.
    All Christians will be complete and perfect in heaven, and live in their new home, which is the heavenly or New Jerusalem. Unfortunately, it will be necessary for the souls of many Christians to be destroyed at the Judgment Seat of Christ in order for them to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. If a Christian crucifies his old self now, then it will not be necessary for Jesus to destroy it at the Judgment Seat of Christ. THE OLD MAN MUST DIE!

    The words “soul” and “life” in the following passage are the same Greek Word psuche.

    (Mat 16:24 KJV) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

    (Mat 16:25 KJV) For whosoever will save his life (psuche) shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life (psuche) for my sake shall find it.

    (Mat 16:26 KJV) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul (psuche)? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul (psuche)?

    (Mat 16:27 KJV) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (THIS IS THE PURGING BY FIRE...THE WHEAT AND THE CHAFF(WORKS) THAT PASSES TRU THE REFINING FIRE OF JESUS CHRIST)

    "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly cleanse His threshing floor. He will gather His wheat into the barn, but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire!" (Matthew 3:12)

    The wheat means all men and women who are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ—all who are led by the Holy Spirit—all who have felt themselves sinners, and fled for refuge to the salvation offered in the Gospel—all who love the Lord Jesus, and live to the Lord Jesus, and serve the Lord Jesus—all who have taken Christ for their only confidence, and the Bible for their only guide, and regard sin as their deadliest enemy, and look to heaven as their only home. All such, of every church, name, nation, people, and tongue—of every rank, station, condition, and degree—all such are God's wheat.
    The chaff means all men and women who have no saving faith in Christ, and no sanctification of the Spirit, whoever they may be. Some of them perhaps are infidels, and some are formal Christians. Some are sneering Sadducees, and some self-righteous Pharisees. Some of them make a point of keeping up a kind of 'Sunday religion', and others are utterly careless of everything except their own pleasure and the world. But all alike, who have the two great marks already mentioned—no faith and no sanctification—all such are chaff.

    Verse 27 confirms that soul salvation pertains to reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

    The misunderstanding about Gehenna is the reason that so many Christians erroneously believe that a Christian can lose his spirit salvation and go to “Hell”. A Christian can lose his soul in the Judgment Fire of God, but he still goes to heaven and he is still redeemed in spirit, soul and body. It is his reward that he loses. THE OLD MAN MUST DIE, EITHER NOW IN THIS LIFE OR AT THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST.
    And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pl-uck them out of my hand (John10:28)

    And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. (John 6:39

    And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 John 5:11

    This next is taken from

    one of the errors of Martin Luther condemned by Pope Leo X in his papal bull Exsurge Domine (June 15, 1520) was Luther's belief that "Purgatory cannot be proved from Sacred Scripture which is in the canon." In other words, while the Catholic Church bases the doctrine of Purgatory on both Scripture and Tradition, Scripture itself is sufficient to prove the existence of Purgatory.
    2 Maccabees 12:46: was the verse used to substantiate money for prayers ,,thus, Indulgences.
    Here is the Cathecism explanation
    http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#1030 Scroll to Purgatory

    The Bible clearly teaches that the payment for sin is not found in or based upon the actions of the sinner. Consider words of 1 Peter 3:18, “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.” Take note of the wording, “Christ also died for sins once for all.” This passage teaches that for the person who is believing in Jesus Christ, all of his or her sins have been taken care of on the cross. Christ died for all of them. This includes the sins the believer committed before salvation and the ones he has committed and will commit after salvation

    So, he died for our Mortal and Venial sin, paid with his Blood. There is no reason for one to have to go to Purgatory, and suffer his way into heaven.

    January 18, 2011 at 8:27 pm |
  20. CatholicMom

    Purgatory as described in 1 Corinthians chapter 3….our works will be tried by fire…the works [good and bad] will be made manifest…it will be revealed in fire. The fire will burn away the straw, stubble, and hay…the bad works, and if any works survive the man will receive a reward. So, if any man’s works burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

    I am curious…what do protestants believe about this? When does this fire and burning take place….before we die…no, or we could witness it happening to each other;… in Heaven? No, because if there are any unclean straw or such it could not enter Heaven [because no unclean thing shall enter there]; what then,... on the way to Heaven? Yes! It is just a necessary cleansing process before going through the gates of Heaven. Why does that upset anyone…be grateful for purification which makes it possible to enter Heaven if you need it!

    Purgatory has been given a ‘bad name’ because protestants like to call it a '2nd chance'; it is not that at all. Everyone who believes the Bible will realize they will most likely be cleansed by this process mentioned in the Bible; because how many will be 'perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect' upon death of the body?

    Yes, Jesus Christ died on the Cross so that we all might have life everlasting and this cleansing is just His way of bringing as many as possible into Heaven. Many acknowledge their works are less than perfect but do not confess or repent of them. Pride keeps them from confessing which just adds to their stack of hay.

    1Cor 3 is not something I wrote…these are not my words but the inspired Word of God from the Bible. So many like to say that man wrote these words without the inspiration of God to scare people into believing in God. How does being cleansed scare someone? Also why would man be foolish and add these things to the Bible if so many find them hard to accept if these words are just a man-made ploy to control people, as some say?

    If you were trying to get a bunch of people to adhere to your teachings wouldn’t you cut out everything that they couldn’t fully understand or didn’t like…just feed them the gospel in such a way that they never have to think about their ‘straw or hay or plank in the eye’ sorts of things…then they would swarm to hear more. [Which I think some ecclesial communities are doing…no mention of the wood pile that might need burning.]

    No, the Truth is what it is and the Holy Spirit is guiding and guarding the Church as promised by Jesus Christ so that there is no mistaking the Truth from falsehood preached by those not sent.

    January 18, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      I agree it is the inspired Word of God! So why add to it? No where does Paul or ANYONE else speak of purgatory! I agree there is no further opportunity for salvation after death! My question fo ryou is thhis: Who gets to go to purgatory? All the saved in Christ or just the iffy ones? I will ask question 2 after I get the answer to question 1. Thank you

      January 18, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • geraldh


      You don't see the word purgatory in scripture. But then neither is the word trinity or incarnation. They are words that were "coined" after the scriptures were written to fit what scripture said. The concepts are in scripture for these terms. I presented you with 1 cor 3:15 which is a clear statement of the concept of puratory. A concept which your posts show you do not understand. Now we can disagree on the interpretation of this passage and I am sure you will go on the net and find a protestant explanation of why the catholic view can't be true. But why is such an interpretation better than ours? By what authority do you claim we are wrong? I have an understanding of scripture and purgatory that mesh. You have an understanding of purgatory that quite frankly is a straw man based on your post above. Who "gets to go"? We are not shooting for purgatory. Some go straight to heaven but as I indicated above some aren't fully sanctified. Again I know full well sanctification is not salvation!

      January 18, 2011 at 4:24 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      The reason I asked CatholicMom who goes is becuase she shared scripture from 1Corinthians 3. Yet in verse 13, the Bible clear states EVERY mans work WILL (future sense) will be judged! All our work wil be judged! Now my question is will that happen all on the same day? If your answer is no, explain the judgement seat of Christ!

      January 18, 2011 at 4:34 pm |
    • gerald

      Those who pass through purgatory are judged by Christ at the end of there life. Not after purgatory. I don't see the problem. If you are asking if purgatory takes time after the judgment, like heaven, purgatory is apart from time and space and so we speak as a likeness with regard to it as perhaps taking days but do not know that it takes time. It may occur instantaneously "in the twinkling of an eye" but being at varying intensities depending of the sanctification that still is need. That is what I lean toward. Or it may take some time. At any rate, it is clear from 1 cor 3 that there is a purging (he will be saved but as if through fire) at judgment for some.

      January 18, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Steve the real one,

      You believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God but imply someone added to it? so what is added? Did you not read 1 Cor chapter 3? What do you make of it? Explain it in your own words and if you decide to come up with a term to explain it, that will be just fine; I think Purgatory, meaning ‘purging’ suits what chapter 3 is talking about but you don’t have to give it a ‘name’ if you don’t want to….just explain exactly what is going on here in this chapter!
      Read chapter 3 and then see if you still want an answer to your who gets ‘to go to purgatory’ question…the answer is in the Bible.

      January 18, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Hi CatholicMom,

      Yes I did read 1 Corinthians 3 and what I read what our works will be judged. Christ wil be the judge! The passage of scripture saiy nothing about where or when this wil happen! How do you read purgatory into that scripture? Question: Is the presence of God (Christ) in purgatory?

      January 19, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • Steve the real one

      Hello agian,

      Look if you want to believe in a purgatory, that is fine and you are free to do so! I believe in "absent from the body is to be in the presence of God". In others words, as soon as my body and spirit separate at death, I will be immediately ushered into the presence of God (Heaven) and I will stubbornly believe that is true for ALL believers! We can still coexist in peace although we disagee!

      January 19, 2011 at 10:21 am |
    • Steve the real one

      Sorry about the spelling (especially bad today), must be my fat fingers!

      January 19, 2011 at 10:24 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Steve the real one,

      Do you have a picture of Purgatory as being a dungeon or some enclosed room or something like that? First you say that Christ is the judge and then you ask if the presence of God [Christ] is in purgatory….since He is the one purging the soul with fire He will be present! You answered your own question!

      Fire, in this passage is purging the bad works out of the total works that we carry in our soul to our death. If we have anything to purge it will be done by the Father who ‘will cut any branches from the vine which have not produced good fruit …’ [you know the parable…] so yes, God will do the purging. This will be done immediately after we die but we do not know how long it takes.

      Why is it so hard for you to call this process ‘purgatory’? Is it because it is a Catholic word? Do you have trouble with Trinity, too, which is a Catholic word, or Incarnation, another Catholic word?

      January 19, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Steve the real one,
      Looking at your post of an earlier date…I am thinking you believe Purgatory is what a Catholic thinks saves us….but, no, that is not true; do you still think that and if you still do, then you still do not understand Purgatory. Keep reading 1 Cor 3 and the whole of what it says there sums up Purgatory. Purgatory is just a word used to encompass the knowledge, as is the word Trinity which encompasses the knowledge we know about the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.
      Did any of my posts make sense to you?

      January 19, 2011 at 10:51 am |
    • Steve the real one


      I appreciate your responses. They are informative and never mean spirited! This is what I believe, The fire that purges our work occurs in heaven at the judgement seat of Christ. The bible calls Christ the first born of the dead, meaning (to me) ALL believers will rise in like manner, directly and immediately into the presense of the Lord! I believe we are sanctified while we life and again, we will appear before Him NOT as a judgement of salvation but a judgement of reward! That is my belief. I really do appreciate you sharing and I hope this is not the last time!

      January 19, 2011 at 11:03 am |
    • Steve the real one

      I am having a difficult time spelling today! Sorry!

      January 19, 2011 at 11:06 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.