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High Court rejects pastor's ballot initiative to overturn same-sex marriage
January 18th, 2011
02:02 PM ET

High Court rejects pastor's ballot initiative to overturn same-sex marriage

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

The United States Supreme Court denied an appeal Tuesday from Bishop Harry Jackson to hold a ballot initiative in the District of Columbia that would, if approved, have overturned the District's same-sex marriage policy.

In May 2009, the city council approved a measure that amended the city's marriage act and said the city would recognize same-sex marriages from other jurisdictions.

Jackson and other religious leaders challenged the city on the measure saying the matter should be put to District voters in a ballot initiative. There initiative wanted to amend the law to say, "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid in the District of Columbia." If that initiative had passed it would have effectively overturned the city's legal recognition of gay marriage.

The DC Board of Elections denied the request for a ballot initiative saying it would violate the city's 1973 Human Right Act, which prevents discriminatory ballot initiatives. They said the proposed ballot initiative would be discriminatory to gay and lesbian citizens.

Then in March 2010, the District passed the Marriage Equality Act which expanded the city's definition of marriage to say, "Any person may enter into marriage in the District of Columbia with another person, regardless of gender, unless the marriage is expressly prohibited by law."

Jackson and others challenged the Board of Elections in court over the denied ballot initiative.

Jackson is the pastor of Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, Maryland, but has residency in the District. He joined with a number of other DC residents on the case but was the lead plaintiff in Jackson v District of Columbia Board of Elections.

In July, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia issued a 5-4 ruling saying the DC Board of Elections acted lawfully in denying the initiative and the Human Rights Acts was also legally valid.

It was that ruling Jackson and others had appealed to the Supreme Court. The court was silent in issuing it's ruling. It only listed Jackson's case among many others as "Certiorari Denied," meaning the justices would not hear arguments on the case and the ruling of the lower court would stand.

DC based Human Rights Campaign, a lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered civil rights group, lauded the court's decision. HRC President Joe Solmonese said in a statement, "The DC Council and Mayor courageously made marriage equality a reality last year, and the courts have since upheld the rights of DC residents to govern ourselves and take the necessary steps to eliminate discrimination in our community."

"We knew this direction was a long shot," Bishop Jackson told CNN of the legal route to the Supreme Court. "The answer now is for us, return to the political process. All is not lost at the Supreme Court level, in that there still will no doubt be a case from Massachusetts or California that will reach the Supreme Court and get some direction on the issue of marriage."

Jackson pointed out there are several cases moving through the legal system that deal with those states' definition of marriage as well.

Jackson said legally his supporters move into the position of wait and see. "I'm confident that Massachusetts or California will eventually wind up in the Supreme Court and there, this thing will have another kind of viewing. [The court] may have been saying we're not going to let your DC case be the defining issue on who can and can't be married," he said.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Courts • DC • Gay marriage • Pastors • United States

soundoff (171 Responses)
  1. DavidKCMO

    see how wingnuts devolve the conversation into god crap. totally useless.

    January 19, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
  2. Bob

    > Exactly! The Old has been fulfilled. Another example. You fulfilled all requirements to graduate with your MBA. Are you going to take another business class in order to fulfill the requirement? NO , because all that is required has been fulfilled!

    That does not excuse the content sir. In fact, by fulfilling it, Jesus has directly validated it. So Jesus supports slavery. Jesus supports torture. Jesus supports ra-pe. Jesus supports the lack of womens rights.

    You said it, not me.

    January 19, 2011 at 4:40 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      You did say that! Did Jesus not say LOVE your neighbor as yourself? I believe He did!

      January 19, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
  3. You2

    tallulah13, If you knew how many hours a Christian researches scriptures (reading, comprehending and then applying scriptures to their every day lives), you'd be amazed. Each scripture they read grows and advances as they age. The more mature the Christian, the more of Jesus wisdom comes pouring out of the same written text. I won't even go into the cross referencing or additional text being read.

    The Bible is the most fascinating book ever written. But, you'd have to read it to comprehend this truth.

    January 19, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
  4. DoIHave2Listen2This

    Bob, you non-believers already grip about free will. Why should God take that away from you? Besides, He wrote you a letter (the Bible). He explains everything you need to know while living in the human flesh ... see inside it's pages. Have you read it? No? That figures (LOL).

    In reference to "Bob ... If it's an abomination against God, then why did he create it? If God is all knowing, why didn't he see the world turning in the future and change it before needing to do the flood? The same with Adam, why did he make Adam and Eve easily decieved knowing that the snake would be able to decieve them.

    When will you wake up and actually look at the bible for what it is, not what you've decided it is."

    And the battle cry of the NON-BELIEVERS goes on and on and on ...

    January 19, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
  5. DoIHave2Listen2This

    LJ, don't wear your heavy wool clothing in the summer heat or you shall die of heat exhaustion. Same goes for wearing light silk in the frigid winter cold or you'll freeze to death.

    Oh, isn't common sense aka wisdom wonderful?

    January 19, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
  6. Barrie Daneker

    CNN help!!!! Bishop Jackson commited voter fraud and tax evasion when he said he lived in DC which he doesn't! He fialed to pay DC income taxes which proves he doesn't live here. Help us find the truth and have him brought up on federal voter fraud changes and DC Income Tax Evasion! HELP CNN only you can make it happen!

    January 19, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
  7. DoIHave2Listen2This

    Eric, instead of BLINDLY following the falsehoods of non-believers and what they write on the Internet, why don't you figure out who really is behind ensuring you never read Jesus' truth. That is the most interesting of reads. Besides, most every Christian has read the same slop as you and find it comical. However, non-believers take it as fact. Why? To justify you not having to do any homework on your own.

    As for Matthew, first you need to comprehend the difference between CARNAL thinking, believing, doing (action) ... versus Spiritual thinking, believing, doing (action). Oh, that's right ... you believe your way of CARNAL reasoning/believing/doing is correct and does not warrant reading wisdom.

    January 19, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
  8. Nick

    The grammar in this post is so atrocious that CNN should be embarrassed that it is connected to their name. Why do we accept such low standards for "journalists" of (historically) reputable news organizations? Hire someone who knows when to use "their" and "its" instead of "there" and "it's." Subject-verb agreement would be nice, as well.

    January 19, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Nick
      I reckon you gots more gooder grammar then I done has.

      January 19, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
  9. Matthew

    To follow up my previous comment, I had no idea this was a religious site until it was pointed out... lol... To me, it was merely a news link on Google news. Had I known, I probably would have chosen not to endure the ridiculous ramblings of the dangerous lunatics here.

    However, even on other non-religious websites, the comments are generally all the same.

    January 19, 2011 at 1:27 pm |
  10. Norman Mailer

    I'm glad that the US Supreme Court still has enough sense to not render insane decisions. Good for them not overturning gay marriage. Now all they have to do is not mess up with the video game ruling and we'll be kosher again: http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2011/01/05/will-the-supreme-court-allow-california-to-ban-violent-video-games/

    January 19, 2011 at 12:18 pm |
  11. SeanNJ

    Reading the posts from the religious folks and thinking back to when I was a young teenager, I'm starting to remember how scary the thought of no afterlife and no god seemed at the time. I sincerely hope they can come to terms with it and find peace in an increasingly secular society that shouts, "The Emperor has no clothes!"

    I don't envy your internal strife.

    January 19, 2011 at 11:49 am |
  12. Reality

    From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, gay se-xual activity, unionized are not is still always mutual ma-sturbation caused by one or more complex se-xual defects. Some defects are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell. Of course not all having these abnormal tendencies, show it outwardly. So call gay unions what they are. They are not marriages!!!

    So what causes these differences between heter-o-se-xuals and h-omo-o-se-xuals?–

    "No simple cause for se-xual orientation has been co-nclusively demonstrated, and there is no scientific co-nsensus as to whether the contributing factors are primarily biological or environmental. Many think both play complex roles.[1][2] The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psy-chological As-sociation have both stated that se-xual orientation probably has multiple causes.[3][4] Research has identified several biological factors which may be related to the development of a heteros-exual, ho-mos-exual or bise-xual orientation. These include genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. Conclusive proof of a biological cause of s-exual orientation would have significant political and cultural implications. [5]"

    And this:

    o All "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

    o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

    “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

    "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

    Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed

    January 19, 2011 at 8:39 am |
    • Reno

      "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

      So. what does it say about right and wrong. What is said about choice, (free will)? If you are born with a foot that wants to cause you not to walk corectly, do you accept it and limp the rest of your life? Or, do you try to fix it, via medical help for instance.
      Knowing that you were "born to be g-a-y", and knowing that was not the "normal" (look around you) would you just enjoy your infirmity? Or would you try to get help for this?
      That is not an excuse to stay in sin.
      I don't know if I even buy into your crap, Reality

      January 21, 2011 at 11:51 am |
  13. ldf

    Strange that so many come to a newspaper or the web instead of a church to 'recite' scripture. That some even have so little faith in scripture, they'd want it written into secular law and quoted from that law, not a bible. A obvious expression of their loss of faith.

    January 19, 2011 at 12:43 am |
  14. Matthew

    Wheever I read user comments on any gay-related article, I am completely dumbfounded by how stupid and illogical religious people are. How is it possible that the human mind is capable of such severe lack of cognitive reason and common sense?

    January 18, 2011 at 11:56 pm |
    • NL

      It takes religious beliefs and, addressing the current marketing being used, establishing 'a personal relationship with Christ' to circ.umvent the common sense these folks actually do have, and use when they're not thinking about God.

      January 19, 2011 at 12:05 am |
    • CatholicMom

      NL,
      People aren’t thinking of God always? One’s life is a pray.

      January 20, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
  15. tallulah13

    I find it hysterically funny that people who pretty much allow all their opinions to be formed by a single source have the audacity to call other people lazy.

    January 18, 2011 at 10:52 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      tallulah13,

      A number of posters who use a variety of sources, each written by different authors, actually end up using conflicting information though they do not see the discrepancies; just because it is anti-Catholic theology doesn’t mean it is cohesive. Remember, there are 38,000 differing ecclesial communities, each professing a different ‘truth’, and many have their own web sites giving their perspective.
      I prefer one source.

      January 20, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • Maybe

      CatholicMom,

      The 'single source' that tallulah13 is referring to here is the Bible.

      January 20, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
  16. GoodGrief

    Eric G, ponder on this for the remainder of the evening ...

    2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

    2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

    2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

    2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

    2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    2 Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

    2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

    2 Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all [men], as theirs also was.

    2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

    2 Timothy 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me.

    2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

    2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    2 Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];

    2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    January 18, 2011 at 10:20 pm |
    • Eric G.

      You need to provide verifiable evidence that your god exists. You are making an extraordinary claim, the burden of proof lies with you.
      I will ponder it if you will answer one question honestly and in your own words......
      Hypothetically, if verifiable evidence existed that would either prove or disprove the existence of your god was in a sealed box, would you open it to find out the truth?

      January 18, 2011 at 10:32 pm |
    • Know What

      So sayeth Paul of Tarsus, master PR professional, trying to promote his new religion. He could say *anything*.

      January 18, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
    • Eric G.

      @Know What: I believe it was also St. Paul, in his letter to the hermaphrodites that said:

      Dear Hermaphrodites,
      Go get bent.
      Sincerely,
      St. Paul

      January 18, 2011 at 10:42 pm |
    • Larry Q.

      Thomas Jefferson was right: Paul was the first corrupter of Christianity, and he really mucked it up. Christians really should be called Paulians, because they follow Paul's words far more dilligently than Jesus's.

      As Gandhi said, "I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." But they are very much like Paul – angry, rigid, repressive, apparently ignorant of what Jesus actually was saying, and very hypocritical.

      January 18, 2011 at 10:57 pm |
    • civiloutside

      Those descriptions of the end times could describe pretty much any period in human history. We've never been entirely free of people behaving badly. On the other hand, humanity has never been entirely devoid of people behaving well, either – even before the invention of the Christian god.

      January 19, 2011 at 10:14 am |
    • Reality

      For added pondering:

      Did Paul see the physical, risen, simple preacher man aka Jesus on the way to Da-mascus? Or was it in a drunken stu-por/dream/hal-lucination brought on by his per-se-cu-tion of the Christians? It is obvious that Paul knew all about Jesus since he was a rabbinic per-sec-utor of said Christian cu-lt. And why pray tell did Jesus not appear to Tiberius or Caligula or Nero?? Sure would have saved a lot of time.

      It was obvious that Judaism in its conflict with Rome was about to be relegated to a second class cu-lt. Paul saw the "writing on the wall" and set about getting ahead of the destruction of Jerusalem and the near an-nih-ilation of the Jewish race.

      And please note the "trips" Paul took. Definitely not affordable by a poor Roman Jew.

      Also please note the extensive monies collected from the Ge-ntiles for famine relief in Palestine. That won the day for the Ge-ntiles entry into the new Jewish cu-lt without having to undergo circ-umcision.

      Also please note, Paul's death appears to be heavily embellished. See Professor JD Crossan's book, In Search of Paul, p. 401 for a good review of the history of his ma-rtyrdom i.e. Paul (as was Peter) was rounded up along with many Christians in Ne-ro's purge of the c-ult using the great fire of Rome as the pretext for the exec-utions. No special death wishes granted. It was a group execu-tion.

      With respect to Paul's "unchristian", pru-dish comments about women, Professor Bruce Chilton, a contemporary historic Jesus and Paul exegete says it best:

      "He (Paul) feared the tu-rn-on of women's voices as much as the sight of their hair and skin..... At one point he even suggests that the sight of female hair might distract any angel ("pretty, wingie, talking, fictional thingie" in church attendance (1 Cor. 11:10)."

      Simply add Paul's thinking about women to the list of flaws in the foundations of Catholicism/Christianity.

      And from Father Raymond Brown's ep-ic NT reference book.

      Excerpts: The First Letter to Ti-mothy

      p. 654, 80-90% of the critical sch-olars believe the letter was written by a pseudo Paul toward the end of the first century, early second century.

      "Authenticity – Probably written by a disciple of Paul or a sympathetic commentator on the Pauline heritage several decades after the apostle's death.

      p. 639 ditto for T-itus

      See also Professor JD Crossan's conclusions in his book (with Professor Jonathan Reed), In Search of Paul, about Timothy and T-itus. (Same conclusions as Father Brown).

      See also Professor Bruce Chilton's book, Rabbi Paul.

      And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_to_Timothy#The_challenge_to_Pauline_authorship

      January 20, 2011 at 11:20 am |
    • Mike, not me

      Reality, so your objections to Acts 9 is "That's not how I would have done it".
      What about the witnesses with him and Ananis?

      Again, Craig Evens (and Lee Strobel) have debated and showed time and time again that Brown and Crossan lack training in the Semitic background of the NT.

      You also know this from the book, The Resurrection of Jesus: John Dominic Crossan And N.T. Wright in Dialogue, which you stopped quoting once we got you past the first page

      January 20, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • Reality

      For Mike's benefit:

      Once again, saving Christians from the Big Resurrection Con:

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
      http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      Of course, we all know that angels are really mythical "pretty wingie talking thingies".

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue, ( Professors Crossan and Wright are On Faith panelists). p.4

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      "Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      The shorter rescue:

      1. For those who do not want to peruse a rather short synopsis of the Resurrection Con, a shorter version:
      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      "Heaven is a Spirit state" as per JPII and Aquinas i.e. there can be no bodies. i.e. there was and never will be any physical resurrection/ascension of human bodies."

      And is it not ironical that JPII along with Aquinas are the ones who put meaning to the words "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is useless"

      January 20, 2011 at 4:46 pm |
  17. DoIHave2Listen2This

    Eric, go read His truth on your own.

    Other Christians are right ... you folks are LAZY as the day is long.

    I for one am not doing the work for you. His word has been written for how long? It is up to each and everyone to know what Jesus wrote in the Bible.

    What's your excuse now besides being L-A-Z-Y?

    January 18, 2011 at 10:12 pm |
    • Eric G.

      Congratulations! You win the fundie of the day award! Jesus wrote in the bible?!?!? Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?While I research that, I challenge you to do a little reading on the Egyptian god Horus and do a little comparison with your Jesus story. As to how long his word has been written? Well, the Horus story was written about 1500 years before it was stolen for your Jesus. I realize you probably will not look it up. But I am the lazy one?

      January 18, 2011 at 10:24 pm |
    • civiloutside

      Most of us atheists on here have, in fact, spent quite a bit of time and effort studying these supposed truths. I myself attended church, Sunday school, Bible study, etc, and said my daily prayers for the better part of 18 years. Ultimately, it just didn’t hold up.

      You and the other posters who are taking this laziness tack are essentially saying “stop thinking about what we’re saying and just accept it. Because thinking about it is just being lazy and arrogant.” Not only does that atti-tude demonstrate ignorance about the people you’re addressing, but the exact same argument could be used to justify believing literally anything. It in no way supports the truth of your particular collection of beliefs.

      January 19, 2011 at 9:46 am |
  18. DoIHave2Listen2This

    Daniel, get a grip on reality. The only ones violating this country are NON-believers. Stop pointing the fingers at black preachers/white preachers/purple preacher etc. The only ones to blame ... well, look in the mirror.

    Period.

    January 18, 2011 at 10:09 pm |
    • civiloutside

      What's it like being perfect and blameless? Judging by your tone, it's a fairly unhappy state to be in.

      January 19, 2011 at 9:30 am |
  19. DoIHave2Listen2This

    Ron, yes, you non-believers have been screwing this country up royal in the last 30 years by insisting people listen to YOUR foolishness instead of Jesus wisdom.

    January 18, 2011 at 10:06 pm |
    • Erik Rolphzema

      The last thirty years have been a period of major prosperity for America. Never before has a people lived so well, even in recessions – go back a hundred years and people had little money and miserable health care. Much better in the last thirty years. If we non-believers are responsible for "screwing the country up" that way, well, you should hope we keep it up.

      You are a very angry Christian, with lots of bigoted stereotypes. Do you feel you represent Christian morality?

      January 18, 2011 at 10:18 pm |
  20. HeavenSent

    NL, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6).

    Jesus does not lie. That's Lucifer's job.

    Amen.

    January 18, 2011 at 9:59 pm |
    • Erik Rolphzema

      Actually, Jesus did lie . . . if he was divine as you believe. He repeatedly said that the Kingdom of God would come down upon the Earth within the lifetime of some of his listeners, and he meant it literally. Didn't happen.

      How could Jesus be wrong, repeatedly, on a core point of his teachings?

      He also repeatedly told his followers that they must sell their possessions and give the money to the poor. Have you done that yet? Of course not.

      January 18, 2011 at 10:12 pm |
    • Know What

      "Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6)."

      Did he? Or did someone writing under the name of "John" say that?

      If Jesus were an omniscient god, he would have left better evidence. He would have known that these scriptural writings could be misbelieved and disbelieved.... that they could be mistranslated, mistranscribed and misunderstood. If the story were true, there would be no debate possible.

      January 18, 2011 at 10:24 pm |
    • NL

      HeavenSent-
      "Jesus does not lie. That's Lucifer's job."

      It doesn't have to take Jesus lying, just the Gospel writers being 'inspired' to put these words in his mouth. Certainly not all things said about Jesus are inspired by the Holy Spirit, right? Lots of other gospels and other books were rejected as being worthy of the bible. Revelations was very nearly thrown out completely, for example, because it was the favorite book of a noted sect declared heretic. So, what's so difficult to imagine about the Church missing a few?

      January 19, 2011 at 8:35 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Erik Rolphzema,
      Jesus did not lie. His Church is His Kingdom on earth; also the Kingdom of God can be found in vessels made pure by Baptism [our souls]; and His Kingdom is in Heaven.

      January 20, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
    • Anglican

      Erik. Christ meant that He would be vindicated as evidenced by the rise of the Post-Easter Church and the fall of Jerusalem in their lifetimes.

      January 20, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      NL,
      You have quite a way about you, NL! Now you have the Gospel writers putting words in Jesus’ mouth!

      There were many scriptures written but not all were inspired by the Holy Spirit. There were many not chosen and we understand there were many…these were the ones NOT inspired by God, though they are called scripture. So those who say ‘all scripture is profitable…..’they need to understand that it is only the inspired scripture that is profitable…….

      Revelation was not thrown out though many have wanted to ever since it was placed in the Bible by the Catholic Church along with all the others so chosen.

      It would be difficult, indeed, to think that some scripture were ‘missed’ as you suggest could have happened; recall the promises of Christ…He promised the Paraclete to the Church, to guide and guard His Church; He would not have allowed such a major thing to happen as some of His Message be ‘left out!’. Silly notion………….

      January 20, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.