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January 22nd, 2011
07:48 PM ET

Islamic parties emerging in Tunisia but playing limited role

After decades of one party rule, new parties, including Islamic parties, emerge in Tunisia. CNN's Ben Wedeman reports.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Africa • Islam • Politics • Tunisia

soundoff (131 Responses)
  1. MikeBell

    And why does violence and government displacement follow Islam?

    January 23, 2011 at 12:47 am |
  2. Carlos

    In the West and in most of Asia, mixing religion with politics is considered, by most people, to be a bad idea. In the Muslim World, it seems a growing majority of people consider it their god-given duty to mix religion with politics.

    January 23, 2011 at 12:38 am |
  3. Reality

    Islam’s Koran and World Domination

    "Mohammed could not have known the size of the world, but several passages in the Koran show that he envisioned Islam dominating all of it, however large it might be: “He it is who sent his messenger . . . that he may cause it [Islam] to prevail over all religions´(Koran 9:33, M.M. Ali; see also 48:28 and 61:9). M.M. Ali designates these three passages as “the prophecy of the ultimate triumph of Islam in the whole world.”

    Mohammed’s successors, the caliphs, quoted passages like these to inspire Muslim armies as they advanced out of Arabia, imposing Islam by the sword upon a peacefully unsuspecting Middle East and North Africa, as I described in the previous chapter.

    Islamic armies, imbued with what Mohammed claimed was divine authorization, imposed Islam by force over vast areas, all the while extorting wealth from subjugated Jews and Christians to fund their ongoing conquests. As I noted, major defeats at Tours, France, in A.D. 732, and again at Vienna, Austria, in A.D. 1683, halted Islam’s attempt to take all of Europe by force. Gradually Islamic forces were forced to retreat from Europe, except for part of the Balkans. But Islam has again set its sights on a conquest of Europe and of European civilization, wherever the latter has spread to North and South America and other regions. Muslim strategists ask their followers, Why do we find in these modern times that Allah has entrusted most of the world’s oil wealth primarily to Muslim nations?

    Their answer: Allah foresaw Islam’s need for funds to finance a final politico-religious victory over what Islam perceives as its ultimate enemy: Christianized Euro-American civilization. So, Islam follows Nazism, fascism and communism as the world’s latest hostile takeover aspirant.

    Nazis, fascists and communists failed. Does Islam have a better chance at success? I believe it will flounder if we awaken to its threat in time; yet, if there is not adequate planned resistance, Islam does have a better chance of succeeding. Communism’s world takeover attempt was guaranteed to fail because its economic policy was naively contrary to human nature. Advocating the rubric What is mine is thine, and what is thine is mine, communism failed to see that human nature will not keep those two balanced propositions in equilibrium. Like a female black widow spider consuming her mate, the latter part of the formula makes a meal of the former, leading to the collapse of any system based upon that formula.

    In contrast, political systems do well if they can persuade people to adhere to What’s mine is mine and What’s thine is thine maxims.

    Only if a strong religious incentive is added does such an idealistic formula have any long-term chance. Even then success will be spotty. But communism (and Nazism, for that matter) excluded religion. And that mistake was the final nail eventually clamping a lid on communism’s coffin. Communism, on a historical scale, perished while still in its childhood.

    Islam is not repeating communism’s mistake. Mating political cunning and incredible wealth with religious zeal, Islam does have a chance to succeed and will succeed unless major parts of the Western world unite to take appropriate countermeasures. But many Western leaders, unable to believe that a mere religion could possible be a serious political threat, keep proclaiming themselves as Islam-friendly, reasoning that all religions are good-aren’t they?

    A Muslim strategist in Beverly Hills, California, declared several years ago, as quoted by a friend of mine: “Now that the struggle between Western democracies and international communism is winding down, it is time for the real and final struggle to begin, and we are going to win!”

    When will people realize that just as there are good doctors and quacks, good cops and rogue cops, there can also be good religions and bad religions?" – Richardson

    January 23, 2011 at 12:13 am |
    • Katie

      Do you realize no one reads super long posts on messages boards? Stop preaching, and stop preaching hate. If you want to write a novel then start a blog, but not on a comment board.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:45 am |
    • Javed

      A. S. Tritton in 'Islam,' 1951

      The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur'an in the other is quite false.

      De Lacy O'Leary in 'Islam at the Crossroads,' London, 1923.

      History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated

      James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70.

      "No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience."

      Lawrence E. Browne in ‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944

      Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:48 am |
    • Jack Lail

      In that case, can you give us a list of the good religions and the bad religions so we'll all know?

      January 23, 2011 at 3:34 am |
    • Reality

      The reality of Islam – a synopsis for those who are "reading challenged":

      "Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

      This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.

      And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

      Current crises:

      The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

      January 23, 2011 at 8:18 am |
    • Reality

      Saving our sister and brother Muslims from 1400 years of Islamic myths:

      The Five Steps:

      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      The First Five of the 77 Branches of Islam:

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      January 23, 2011 at 8:21 am |
    • Dooleeoo

      Head back to FOX where they appreciate paranoid rants about Muslims, blacks, latinos, Kenyans, commies, and liberals

      January 23, 2011 at 9:25 am |
  4. Captain_Colossal

    I wanna rock out with Islamic fundamentalists!

    January 22, 2011 at 11:48 pm |
  5. sani

    Calm ur self down JEFF dats not true is actually impossible u know

    January 22, 2011 at 11:47 pm |
  6. rtmin

    And it starts... limited role for now, then restricting rights of women, beatings, be headings blowing themselves up... etc. etc.

    January 22, 2011 at 11:42 pm |
  7. jafar

    If one wants to see the true purpose ofislam the should look at the first 30 years of islam not the current as far as one beliving in God as long as humans an everthing else is created; the concept of a creator will excist. as i ask shawn did you create yourself? did your parents deside what genes you should take from? no so as long as creation is order and is perfect laws and systems. the humans will believe in a creator. ps this reasoning is the reason somany people are converting in the us and europe. islam is the worship of the creator and rejection of worshiping creation. may your creator guide you to the truth

    January 22, 2011 at 11:22 pm |
  8. Eric Kellogg

    Yeah that is definitely what they need, replacing one form of oppression with another one that may be even worse -_-

    January 22, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
  9. Shawn

    The day will come when this religion nonsense is over. The internet will finally put mythology to rest. It may take longer in third world counties with limited net access but in the “modern” world it shouldn’t take more than a few generations. We’ve seen polls in some European countries show belief in god drop below 50% for the first time. If one actually did some open minded research it wouldn’t take long to figure out how ridiculous it is to live life guided by ancient text with no proof. How wrong is it to tell a child he will be sent to hell if he doesn’t believe? Brainwashing from an early age is the only reason religion still exists today.

    January 22, 2011 at 10:50 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      Not that just that Shawn, Don't forget about the blessed event we know as the rapture! We will be out of the way soon. The question is "out of who's way". I don't think you will like the answer!

      January 22, 2011 at 10:55 pm |
    • Northview

      I had a rapture. I was lifting this heavy box and all of the sudden something went POP! I didn't find it blessed at all. It took two surgeries to take care of it. It still hurts sometime when I bend over.

      January 22, 2011 at 11:14 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      Northview,

      Sorry to hear about your RUPTURE! Hope you are doing well (if you are telling truth)!

      January 22, 2011 at 11:21 pm |
    • tom

      What do you believe in Shawn ??? I bet you can't even say, Oh sure you can blurt out the cliche – Peace, or everyone living together in harmony and Love, but look around, it's not going that direction, it's going the other, and NOT because of Religion, because of the heart of Man, Mexico used to be a nice place to visit, now you have to be worried of getting your head cut off in even the resort towns, NOTHING to do with religion, Mexico – turmoil, North Africa-Turmoil – Pakistan -Turmoil, Iran, Iraq, Yemin, Somalia, Darfur, Chad, North korea, Burma, the list goes on and on, Your blind

      January 22, 2011 at 11:30 pm |
    • Northview

      That's it I'm canceling my vacation to Cancun!

      January 23, 2011 at 12:03 am |
    • Shawn

      Steve, I believe in Science. Over 95% of PhD scientists do not beleive in Jesus or Allah. Religion has been trying to discredit science for thousands of years to protect ancient literature. Science is based on fact religion is based on ….faith. Faith in ancient scripture. Mexico is in turmoil because of the drug trade. The rest of the countries you listed are in turmoil due to religion. Thanks for making my point. It’s been a very wet year. It may be time to collect two of each of the 7.6 million species and put them put them on a boat. Give me a break. One of us is blind Steve but it’s not me.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:17 am |
    • Shawn

      Sorry Steve I meant to reply to Tom. Are you serious about the rapture? The world has been in turmoil since the beginning of time. tribes have fought to extinction for hundreds of thousands of years . Genghis Khan slaughtered half of Asia and the middle east including thousands of Christians in the 1200’s. I’m sure this was the rapture to the flock as well.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Let Us Prey

      @ Shawn

      " The internet will finally put mythology to rest."
      " Over 95% of PhD scientists do not beleive (sic) in Jesus or Allah."
      " It’s been a very wet year."

      Seems so. Better check behind your ears.

      January 23, 2011 at 3:58 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      According to the Word of God, concerning the rapture? !00% yes! You wil probably ask me to prove it, yes? My answer to that is: All in God's timing!

      January 23, 2011 at 5:43 pm |
  10. Jim

    "It is time we recognized—and obliged the Muslim world to recognize—that “Muslim extremism” is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. In Islam, we confront a civilization with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and the Christians of the 14th century are pouring into our world." Sam Harris

    I know "moderate" Muslims. One in particular I am pretty good chums with. He will not stand up against his unstable brethren in anything above a whisper, I suspect due to his eternal fate for siding against the brotherhood. He's a good guy, I like him alot, and he is worthless as a voice of reason to counterbalance the psychopaths. Most of his ilk are similarly worthless it would appear if history is any indicator

    January 22, 2011 at 10:28 pm |
    • sassypants

      This is exactly why they cannot be trusted. They will lie to you and their jihad does not always involve weapons. Watch your women and children – just stay away from them.

      January 22, 2011 at 10:43 pm |
    • morgan painter

      He is an enabler. And he is either FOR the radical muslims or he is absolutely afraid to speak against them. Until the moderates as you describe them speak against the radicals, none of them are to be believed. It is part of the deception. Pretend to be moderate all the while supporting the radicals so Islam can reign over all the world.

      That is their goal and it has been clearly stated by numerous clerics.

      January 22, 2011 at 11:19 pm |
  11. Jeff

    Secular Facism will be replaced by Islamo Facism. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

    January 22, 2011 at 10:27 pm |
    • Northview

      Dude I know what you mean. My boss is such a fascist AND he doesn't go to church either.

      January 22, 2011 at 11:05 pm |
  12. Sherri

    TO ALL:
    READ: The End of Faith by Sam Harris
    READ: Infidel by Ayaan Ali Hirsi
    WATCH: The Third Jihad
    GOOGLE: "takeover of America" + Muslim.
    GOOGLE: 'tenets of sharia'.
    BE AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHAT MUSLIMS PLAN FOR THE WORLD. NOT JUST U.S.
    THEIR GOAL IS TOTAL WORLDWIDE ISLAM. I HAVE HEARD THEM SAY IT MANY TIMES.

    January 22, 2011 at 10:27 pm |
    • Javed

      To Know Islam ..read the real Quran and use your intellect to judge rather than allowing someone else to judge Islam for you .

      Lawrence E. Browne in ‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944

      Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.

      James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70.

      "No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience."
      “Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word sensing his own inadequacy. But the Angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God"."

      “In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred and rumors of God 's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, ‘An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being'."

      “At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: ‘If there are any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you Worshiped, He lives for ever'.”

      "And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress the limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 2, Verse 190.

      "Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 60, Verse 8.

      "There is no compulsion in religion. The right path has indeed become distinct from the wrong. So whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All Hearing, All Knowing" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 2, Verese 256.

      January 22, 2011 at 11:27 pm |
    • Reality

      Our War on Terror and Aggression:

      An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

      The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

      1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

      1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

      2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

      3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat98,691 – 107,707 Iraqi civilians killed as of 11/9/2010, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
      defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

      5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

      6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

      7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

      8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

      9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

      10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

      11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

      12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

      13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

      14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

      15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.

      16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

      17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

      Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

      -Operation Iraqi Freedom- The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat, 97,172 – 106,047 Iraqi civilians killed as of 8/10/2010 mostly due the Shiite and Sunni suicide bombers.

      – Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror,

      – Sa-dd-am, his sons and major he-nchmen have been deleted. Sa-dd-am's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes. Kuwait was saved.

      – Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

      – Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “cra-zies” as they have thre-atened Libya. OBL sure is a di-sgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???

      – North Korea is still u-ncivil but is contained.

      – Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

      – The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “squ-are one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

      – Bin La-d-en has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

      – Fa-na–tical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

      – Timothy McVeigh was exe-cuted. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

      – Eric Ru-dolph is spending three life terms in pri-son with no par-ole.

      – Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

      – Islamic Sudan, Dar-fur and So-malia are still terror hot spots.

      – The terror and tor-ture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Ra-dovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war – charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

      – And of course the bloody terror brought about by the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:08 am |
    • Katie

      Since when have we ever classified all people of one religion into the same boat and said they all have the same master plan? Since when have we used the extremist minority to define and entire population? Just because the Internet told you something doesn't mean it's true.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:41 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Sherri

      If you haven't read it yet, I would add, specifically for you... "A letter to a Christian Nation" also, by Sam Harris.

      Peace...

      January 23, 2011 at 1:06 am |
  13. Northview

    What's the big deal? I'd go to an Islamic party, sure they probably don't serve alcohol but I bet they're still fun.

    January 22, 2011 at 10:26 pm |
  14. neutral

    Jose, ever wonder why English and Spanish have SO many words in common? Because England and Spain were key parts of the Roman empire for hundreds of years. The Romans spoke Latin, and they forced the countries they conquered to speak Latin.

    By the way, Spain was also part of an Islamic empire for seven centuries. So, Spanish has a lot in common with Arabic, too.

    January 22, 2011 at 10:15 pm |
    • Jose

      Yes Spain was occupied by Muslims for a time but were finally cast off along with their Moor friends.

      January 22, 2011 at 11:01 pm |
    • derk

      the moops! it was the moops!

      January 22, 2011 at 11:09 pm |
    • nibu

      @Neutral: the fact that English has about 50 thousand latin words (French, actulaly), has nothing to do with the Roman Empire. It's because of the Norman invasion in the 11th century AD.
      Read your history plz

      January 23, 2011 at 5:04 am |
    • Julie in Austin

      @Jose: And Spain's Jewish inhabitants as well. Let's not forget the other non-Christian group Spain expelled. If Jews and Muslims hadn't been expelled starting in 1492, Spain wouldn't have had the money (it stole the property from the Jews and Muslims it murdered or expelled) for global conquest.

      January 23, 2011 at 8:08 am |
    • Jose

      Julie, history teaches use many aspects to this jihad that has engulfed this world in turmoil. i.e. Christianity was once forced their belief upon lost souls from the tip of a sword but now it is given as a free choice without coercion. Islam on the other hand murders those who do not convert as per the Qur'an.

      Spanish Christians stole everything from the Muslims and Jews??????? Wow, that's interesting. Look to how the Muslims gained such wealth, they taxed, stole and ransomed everything away from the Jews and Christians. Christians simply took back what was theirs in the first place.

      "Keep Austin Weird"

      January 23, 2011 at 9:12 am |
  15. neutral

    Jose, I'm with you in spirit, but you need to get your facts straight before you post comments regarding Christianity. A crusade is a Christian holy war. 'Crus' And Cruz are Latin for the English word 'cross'. Some whose first name is Jose should know this.

    January 22, 2011 at 10:06 pm |
    • sassypants

      I'm not sure you are with him in spirit. Sounds like you might be asleep – better wake up!

      January 22, 2011 at 10:40 pm |
    • Jose

      Definition of JIHAD
      1
      : a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty; also : a personal struggle in devotion to Islam especially involving spiritual discipline
      2
      : a crusade for a principle or belief

      So the use of 'crusade' is not so far off for it encompasses both sides of the conflict.

      January 22, 2011 at 10:55 pm |
    • Felicitations

      neutral, a small correction:

      Cruz is Spanish for cross.

      Crux is Latin for cross.

      January 22, 2011 at 11:57 pm |
    • Katie

      @ Jose, the definition of "jihad" is actually "to struggle." This most often means an inner struggle, or to struggle with one's faith, and only in extreme cases has been used to refer to a holy war, which is by NO means specific to Islam, as all religions have waged war in the name of their god, Please do some research and actually know what you're talking about before posting regurgitated hate posts on the Internet.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:37 am |
  16. darkz

    i thought this was talking about party...party... like raise the roof party

    January 22, 2011 at 9:58 pm |
    • me

      lol

      January 23, 2011 at 9:03 am |
  17. bu

    Religion spreads like a DISEASE!!! Be part of the solution, not the problem!

    January 22, 2011 at 9:54 pm |
    • Northview

      OMG is it an STD?

      January 22, 2011 at 10:27 pm |
    • tom

      Everyone has a religion, what's yours Global Warming ? Evolution? Veganism
      You don't need a God to have religion, most of the people that bash people of faith in God, just have blind faith in something else, these same people, are responsible for over 3/4 of all the wars and death in the last century. Hitler – Atheist, Stalin- Atheist – Mao – Atheist. Those that stand for nothing fall for anything

      January 22, 2011 at 11:17 pm |
    • Northview

      I know what you mean Tom, I stood up for the National Anthem at a ballgame once, fell right over the rail. It was embarrassing.

      January 22, 2011 at 11:35 pm |
    • Reality

      The Twenty (or so) Worst Things People Have Done to Each Other:

      Rank Death Toll Cause Centuries Religions involved

      1 63 million Second World War 20C (Christians et al and Communists vs. Christians et al, Nazi-Pagan and "Shintoists")
      2 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C (Communism)
      40 million Genghis Khan 13C (Shamanism or Tengriism)
      4 27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C (Anglican)
      5 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Chinese folk religion)
      6 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C ( Confucianism, Buddhism and Chinese folk religion vs. a form of Christianity)
      20 million Joseph Stalin 20C
      8 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C (Islam)
      9 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C
      10 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C (Christianity)
      11 15 million First World War 20C (Christians vs. Christians)
      15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C (Christians)
      13 13 million Muslim Conquest of India 11C-18C
      14 10 million An Lushan Revolt 8C
      10 million Xin Dynasty 1C
      16 9 million Russian Civil War 20C (Christians vs Communists)
      17 8 million Fall of Rome 5C (Pagans)
      8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C (Christians)
      19 7½ million Thirty Years War 17C (Christians vs Christians)
      7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C
      http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm

      January 23, 2011 at 12:04 am |
    • Cedar rapids

      'You don't need a God to have religion,'
      Actually, yes you do. The other stuff is not 'religion' no matter how much you want to twist it so it fits your argument.

      January 23, 2011 at 9:41 am |
    • Neonix

      A response to :
      "Reality
      The Twenty (or so) Worst Things People Have Done to Each Other:
      Rank Death Toll Cause Centuries Religions involved
      1 63 million Second World War 20C (Christians et al and Communists vs. Christians et al, Nazi-Pagan and "Shintoists")
      2 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C (Communism)
      3 40 million Genghis Khan 13C (Shamanism or Tengriism).....etc. "

      A suggested ammendment to your list, concerning christian involvement in these wars.
      1.> The second world war was not a religious war. Hitler was a strong believer in evolution, saw Christ as a threat and evidence suggests that he forced his S.S. to observe pagan holidays, like "Sylvester (new years)" and Soltice festivals. His opposition however, was Christian (Most allied soldiers identified with some denomination of Christian belief.) The 63 million people who died, are not a result of the Christian's "desire" to dominate the world. They made a self-sacrificing effort to stop geneocide.
      2.> The Atlantic slave trade was opposed by alot of Christians. Pope John Paul the 3rd (1434 -1449) spoke against slavery over 400 years before the civil rights movement was even concieved, even though alot of wealthy self-proclaimed christians believed that slavery is ordaned by God. It is pretty obvious that a genuine believer of God would never support the enslavement of another human being. The opposition was defending money, not God's bible. The Church made this stance clear over 600 years ago, despite alot of accusations.
      3.> The first World war was fought over political reasons. The Germans where furious after Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assasinated. Aside from prayers in foxholes, Christ had no part in this war.
      4.> I will give some credibility to the conquest of the Americas. It should be noted that most of Europe, if not all, was ruled by the Royals. It was their desire for conquest that fueled the expansion into the western world. I would fault Christianity, because the Pope ratified the expansion and also supported the belief that kings of nations are ordaned by God. While we know that God only favors one King, the Church doctrine in this time was undisputed and the Church alone is to blame for this costly ignorance.
      5.> The Russian civil war was fought by the early Communists and an anti-semetic revolutionary group called the white party. It was politically fueled and the church played no noted part. In fact, the Communist party refused to recognize the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church until 1943, when it reemerged.
      6.> The Congo Free state was plundered by King Leopold II for it's Rubber and minerals. While the ruling regime was considered a Christian nation, the murder and slavery was commited by non-faithfuls for obvious gains in riches. The prodestants, however, started mission work in 1878 and spread the Gospel to a highly receptive people. At no point did the Church use violence or threats of death to convert. They simply showed mercy, assisted in crop production and prepared the people for western influence by teaching them to read and write. Anyone can claim they had other motives but I don't see it.
      7.> The 30 year war is the only true religious conflict listed here. The Prodestants fought against an oppressive Catholic influence in, what is now, Germany. While the war was blamed on religious freedom, it had alot to do with Spain and France batteling for German states. (Germany did not unify into a sovreign nation until 1871, making it the youngest superpower in the world, younger even than America).

      January 23, 2011 at 9:48 am |
    • Nonimus

      @Neonix,
      So according to your own statement WWII was a religious war: pagan vs. Christian

      January 23, 2011 at 10:30 am |
    • Neonix

      Reply to "Cedar rapids"

      Religion [ri-lij-uhn], noun – a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

      You CAN have religigion without God. Buddists don't have a God. Evolutionism is a religion based on unconfirmed scientific theory. Confucianism has no deity, just principles of belief. Jainism believes in Kharma, a balancing unintelligent natural force. Again, no God. Taoism also has no deity. Atheism is the belief that no greater supernatural force exists. Agnosticism doesn't quite know what to belive and mysticism focuses on unexplained natural energies.

      So...explain to me how God is fundamental to religion?

      January 23, 2011 at 10:39 am |
    • Neonix

      Nonimus
      World War II was started because of economic struggle, social agendas and political manifestations. The belief system of the political leader does not make the war religious. That's like saying that every American is a Christian because Obama identifies himself as one.

      January 23, 2011 at 10:44 am |
    • aUtheistIC

      Hitler was neither a pagan nor a christian.

      Hitler only believes in himself.
      Atheist believes in nothing but themselves.

      Thus, Hitler was an Atheist.

      Atheism is the moderm NAZI.

      January 23, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
  18. Jose

    This religious war has raged for 1,000 years. Muslim are bent on world domination and modern Christians are slow to realize they are in the mist of the largest crusade to date.

    January 22, 2011 at 9:46 pm |
    • JB

      Not all of us!

      January 22, 2011 at 9:52 pm |
    • sassypants

      I agree – not all of us!

      January 22, 2011 at 10:38 pm |
    • ???

      Only narrow minded people believe this

      January 23, 2011 at 12:30 am |
    • Katie

      And Christians aren't bent on world domination????

      January 23, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Li

      Agreed. Hopefully they will realize it before it's too late. These Muslim bandwagon hopping bleeding-heart liberals haven't even read a REAL Qur'an nor even a softer/manipulated English version. Most don't know or won't admit that it tells all Muslims to kill or dominate ALL non-Muslims. They are sheep. They actually think that 'moderate Muslims (big joke there)' will protect them once the Sharia following brothers and sisters move in for the kill. They won't... it's against their religion to turn on a fellow Muslim.

      January 23, 2011 at 2:14 am |
    • Julie in Austin

      Islam today is where Christianity was at the same age - bent on world domination and killing anyone who wasn't a Christian. Complaints about Islamic world domination are usually made by people who still believe in Christian world domination.

      January 23, 2011 at 7:59 am |
    • Cedar rapids

      Agreed Julie

      January 23, 2011 at 9:39 am |
  19. Dragonfly

    Unfortunately these Muslim men (like most Arabs) seem to not have read the Quran or remember Islamic history. If Islamic law were followed women would still work and have their freedom. If only people would actually read and leave their cultural ideals at the door. I am a Muslim woman. I am a lawyer. I follow my faith and my home is happy bc my family actually reads the Quran instead of just holding it up.

    January 22, 2011 at 9:38 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Dragonfly

      Interesting post... Thank you for speaking up, as a Muslim woman from direct experience.

      Your call for change is admirable.

      Peace...

      January 22, 2011 at 9:43 pm |
    • Katie

      Kudos to you Dragonfly! I agree that people just take out of religion what they want it to say without actually listening to the true message. Best wishes for you and your family!

      January 23, 2011 at 12:46 am |
    • theinfidel2

      Dragonfly: unfortunately, first of all, besides the Koran Muslims also "hold up" the Hadith, which has the same authoritative status and has a lot of nasty and oppressive stuff in it. So when we in the west condemn something Muslims do, Islamic apologists "hod up" the Koran and say "The Koran doesn't say this or that" conveniently ommitting the fact that most likely the Hadith DOES say this and that. Also, I guess when YOU read the Koran you conveniently for youself skip the nasty passages there as well...

      January 23, 2011 at 1:02 am |
    • greenhill

      you might wanna read it again

      January 23, 2011 at 1:02 am |
    • Peace2All

      @theinfidel2

      Respectfully, after reading your reply post to -Dragonfly, it appears to me that you missed the whole point of her post.

      You may want to re-read it again, because at least in my opinion, you are 'way' off track as to what she said.

      Peace...

      January 23, 2011 at 1:50 am |
    • Let Us Prey

      @ Peace & Infidel

      What's the harm in a little challenge? Not very delicately worded, mind you.. but subject appropriate. You do encourage a cultural exchange of ideas, right Peace? I'm sure that Dragonfly, as a strong female Muslim attorney, isn't offended. I would like to hear her answer to this obvious western concern.

      January 23, 2011 at 2:32 am |
    • Damon Macready

      "So when we in the west condemn something Muslims do, Islamic apologists "hod up" the Koran and say "The Koran doesn't say this or that" conveniently ommitting the fact that most likely the Hadith DOES say this and that."

      Well, not everyone believes in the hadiths, or believe in all of the hadiths.

      January 23, 2011 at 4:35 am |
    • Muneef

      DragonFly.

      Welcome you and agree with you that not all read or understand what is right and just follow what they are told by their figures brainwashing them to serve a purpose and not God or Religion...

      January 23, 2011 at 10:25 am |
    • Reality

      Acts of koranic-driven terror and horror, all to honor the "merciful" allah:

      1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

      1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

      2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

      3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat98,691 – 107,707
      Iraqi civilians killed as of 11/9/2010, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
      defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

      5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

      6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

      7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

      8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

      9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

      10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

      11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

      12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

      13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

      14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

      15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.

      16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

      17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:18 pm |
  20. Muneef

    The Prophet  said:
    The best (Muslim) believer according to his practice of Islaam is one from whose tongue and hand (Muslims) Believers are safe
    [Collected by At-Tabaraanee in Al-Kabeer (S.J.S. 1129). Also collected by Al-Bukharee, Vol 1 No 9, Muslim Vol 1 No 64 & Abu Dawud No 2475. Also see Mishkat Al Masaabih Vol 1]

    January 22, 2011 at 8:39 pm |
    • Tom

      Collected? Do they come with action figure cases?

      January 22, 2011 at 10:11 pm |
    • Northview

      A tongue lashing can be a very nasty thing.

      January 22, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
    • Templar1

      Great references on Islam. I tried to look it up too but all I could find was:
      9:23

      January 22, 2011 at 11:24 pm |
    • Allah

      The only thing any holy book is good for is wiping your back side..... Imposing your fictional believe on others only leads to pain.... and true eternal shame from he who is called I am..... All you need is the GOLDEN RULE..... If you can not understand the importance of this, then you do not deserve live.

      January 23, 2011 at 3:25 am |
    • Muneef

      Al-Tawba sura 09:
      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers. (23) Say: If your fathers, and your sons, and your brethren, and your wives, and your tribe, and the wealth ye have acquired, and merchandise for which ye fear that there will be no sale, and dwellings ye desire are dearer to you than Allah and His messenger and striving in His way: then wait till Allah bringeth His command to pass. Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (24)..

      January 23, 2011 at 9:17 am |
    • Reality

      Acts of koranic-driven terror and horror, all to honor the "merciful" allah:-

      1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

      1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

      2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

      3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat98,691 – 107,707
      Iraqi civilians killed as of 11/9/2010, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
      defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

      5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

      6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

      7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

      8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

      9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

      10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

      11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

      12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

      13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

      14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

      15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.

      16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

      17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

      January 23, 2011 at 12:20 pm |
    • Muneef

      For example if you have a brother that disbleifs in all Good and Right becoming a wrong doer by such acts as spreading corruptions,terrorism and you failed to straighten to righteous ! What would you do? Join him or reject him or fight him??
      The Prophet of God Noah had given his son up when he rejected the faith of his father and refused to board the Ark!?
      Prophet and Messenger of God Luka has given his wife up because she did not listen in full belief when was told not to look back but she did and was gone cursed with the rest of the wrong doers who favored earthly pleasure over faith !?

      January 23, 2011 at 8:45 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.