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Armageddon illustrated
Lt. John Corbin fights his way through Armegedon Now: World War 3 a Christian comic about the end of days.
January 24th, 2011
06:00 AM ET

Armageddon illustrated

By Gabe LaMonica, CNN

It’s the end of the world: Terrorists release deadly gas in New York City, then set off a nuclear bomb in Los Angeles, while an earthquake in the city of Jerusalem collapses the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount. Then a million soldiers are killed in “the greatest single battle in the history of the world.”

At least that's how it's envisioned in a new graphic novel, "Armageddon Now: World War 3," the collaborative brainchild of Phil Hotsenpiller, a pastor who specializes in prophecy, and Rob Liefeld, one of the most polarizing artists in the comic book industry.

“Ezekiel actually talks about what happens prior to the battle of Armageddon,” said Hotsenpiller, explaining his use of Old Testament passages in bringing scripture to life in comic book form.

The Book of Ezekiel is "really a summary of a war that happens in the Middle East before Armageddon, where you have this coalition of nations that come together to try to destroy Israel, and Israel prevails in that situation," Hotsenpiller said.

"What we find is a coalition of a lot of armies that make life very difficult, but there’s a miracle that’s won there, and that’s before the entrance of what the Bible refers to as the anti-Christ,” Hotsenpiller said.

On September 11, 2001, as people ran from the billowing white clouds and acrid dust chasing them down streets and alleyways, Hotsenpiller watched from the air. He and his wife were flying past the World Trade Center on their way out of LaGuardia. Before the towers collapsed, they saw the thick line of black pitch piping from one of the twin towers. He, like many others, didn’t know what was happening.

Essentially it is here that Liefeld and Hotsenpiller begin their graphic novel, which sells for $24.99 from Image Comics and is available on the iPad. A sunny and normal morning in New York City turns devastating when a deadly gas that “no one could outrun” is released into the air.

As if the visuals weren’t enough, a narrative box - there’s virtually no dialogue - states that scenes in which mobs of New Yorkers run for their lives with clouds of dust and smoke overhead are “reminiscent of a scene from 9/11.”

In "Armageddon Now," the gas is called M-4211. I asked Hotsenpiller about its significance.

“You’ve got some element of truth, some element of fiction, so we just made the place where they would discover this mystery ... Grand Central Terminal," he said. "Grand Central [is] on 42nd [Street] ... and we tied it back to ... Orion."

The Orion Nebula, also known to astronomers as M42, contains the star Betelgeuse, a red giant several hundred light years away. Some scientists believe it will go supernova in our lifetimes - or maybe in a million years. When it does, it will set the Earth’s night sky ablaze in a light more than equivalent to the full moon.

“In our story, we use it more as a marker," Liefeld said. "Perhaps the birth of Christ, maybe that was a constellation that was lighting up that was guiding people, so that when it is utilized again, it’s more of a signal. So that’s where Orion, without giving away too much, is more or less utilized throughout our story."

Liefeld is an illustrator who has sold 60 million comics for Marvel and Image. He compares himself to Lebron James, “how he transitioned eight years into his career from a hero to a villain and … how LeBron is handling that," he said. "I’m telling you … if it was comic books, you could put my name in there."

People either love Liefeld or love to hate him. In describing his ascension, he quotes from the movie "Blade Runner": “When the scientist tells Rutger Hauer, playing Roy Batty, [he's] gonna die soon, he says, 'The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy,'" Liefeld said.

"You’re burning so bright, you’re causing all this attention, but it burns out. I have enjoyed a fantastic 25-year career,” Liefeld said.

"Armageddon Now" is a seminal book in Liefeld’s body of work. Committing himself to vivid landscapes dripping with color, he still can’t seem to pull completely away from the overwrought muscles and too many pockets and ammo magazines that blow his characters out of proportion - and that his critics have loved to ding him for since his meteoric rise in the 1990s.

Hotsenpiller is known for his sermons on prophecy at Yorba Linda Friends, a Christian megachurch in Southern California. He marshals groups of nearly 10,000 people to three-day-long prophecy conferences - one of which Liefeld attended.

“Really the Armageddon book is not designed to be this Biblical commentary text on Ezekiel," Hotsenpiller said. "It’s really meant to be entertainment and fun, and it adds an element of biblical truth in it.”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Books • California • Christianity • United States

soundoff (235 Responses)
  1. Rudeofallreligion

    wow!
    ----------–
    Got a Question? Need an Answer?
    http://www.rudeofallreligion.com

    January 25, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
  2. Meh

    Gears of war?

    January 25, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
  3. TinkerTailorSoldierSailor

    ~All~
    Im no expert on logic, and reasoning, but i do know what fallacy is and no offense but from the majority its the people of "faith" who break these rules more often than those who are atheists or agnostics etc. Since I read about 95% of the above i'll point out a few and people speaking here can seek to avoid them as breaking these rules instantly takes your argument and either trashes its value or simply makes you look uneducated in argumentative prcedure.

    I'll keep this short and simple. (as much as i can ;3 )

    Undue Overgeneralizing – When somone says that "your mad that im right so your mad at religion" and they use that to try to invalidate somone elses point is over generalizing. Your taking a single point, usually apart of a greater myriad of points, and CHOOSING to exploit the flaw of that one point. Like just proving one part or line of the bible right or completely wrong in itself doesnt give you the right to say the whole book is right nor all incorrect. You have to take each point and stack them against each other. In the end of the day alot of the morality and points in it are wrong but im not debating this, im talking about fallacy.

    2. Weighted questions that have forseen outcomes. Very simply you can only ask somone an open question. For (ex "Is it true that you still beat your wife?" either answer admits at some point beating your wife and that's simply a sophmoric way of dealing with someone you dont agree with

    3. Poisoning the Well. Making a new point and before they can reply or rebuttle letting loos some information that discredits their side immediatly before they can have at least an honest chance at a decent point....if one can be made. Trust me if you know all their points are bad they will use bad logic, or bad facts, or bad assumptions and then you can pick those part if needed. (be careful of over generalising at that point though)

    4. (THIS ONE IS HUGE FOR SOME PPL TO GRASP SO HOLD ONTO YOUR SEATS) Incorrect placement of value

    This single fact reforms peoples way of thinking and simple thought lets this sink into the simplest of minds.

    When you say to somone that something exists because of something your essentially saying the conclusion exists because of the premise.

    A good analogy i use is this and its startlelingly simple. When you break this rule its like saying there is 4. 4 is amazing and perfect and you know waht ?.... 2+2 made it. Its wonderful isnt it? Only really your wrong. As in sound and truthful logic you cant have it that way because doesnt 3+1 and 5-1 or 4+0 all get you to 4? Take the earth as 4. 2+2 is god....... see where that goes logic wise..... it crashes and burns immediatly, not because of bias, or hatred of religion, or lack of an un-opened mind..... its simply bad logic and your not making any truthful statements if your basing your facts on your beliefs versus making your beliefs off your facts.

    As for the comments on Faith above.... some people need to read the definition of Faith. Bassically its having belief in something that cannot be proven nor seen etc touched.. in any physical form etc.... I believe in gravity because i know great mass attracts lesser mass. I belive in the mail system for it arrives everyday and i believe if it doesnt its either a sunday or i need to call them. Its not correct to say faith proves religion or god simply because the secular have reasonable expectations for the environment from which they live in. Its simply over generalising the personal belief that a way to inspore men to goto god is simply instilling faith when in fact as I see it Man has religion to simplify and belittle the true wonder of the natural world.

    Some see a sunrise and see the majesty of the Kingdom and see God's perfect creation before them and they know that god personally took his hands and molded the stars the earth and clouds and uss to witness the majesty of it all. Others see it as the earths rotation providing a bent angle on the suns rays providing a reddish orange visiable color which refracts and shapes rays off the clouds due to simple line of sight.

    I personally dont need poetry and religion, or god, or anything but that event itself to prove how beautiful that event is for me. In other words i dont need religion to see the beauty or love in life. I dont need a book or messiah or religious inspiration in me to say be nice to people and your way is made easier, or to have a job to have self preservation or to love a person to have my basic core desire to love other people to be met. If you look at from a simpler but realistic view the world is far more a awesome feat when you realise mankind has achieved so much out of our own tenacity and not from archaic poetry of an older time.

    January 25, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
  4. Steve the real one

    Eric G.

    Let us not forget that their was no he-ll until the arrival of your kind, loving, forgiving Jesus.
    ---–
    Not true my friend,

    He-ll was created for the Devil and his rebel angels (now demons). The Bible says that he-ll has been enlarged, which tells me it has exceeded its original purpose (the devil and his angels). He-ll was NEVER cretaed for one human soul, yet due to mans rebel att-iude and rejection of God, rebels go where rebels go!

    January 25, 2011 at 10:30 am |
    • Bob

      Well, that would make sense if we had free will. But we don't. God created the universe knowing what we'd do, knowing how each person would act. He is directly responsible for everything.

      You cannot be all powerful and all knowing and not be responsible for your creations. It's impossible.

      January 25, 2011 at 10:51 am |
    • Steve the real one

      Bob,

      We do have free will. You have the free will to not believe and I have the free will to believe! Think of it as a parent anology. I have children who at one point rebelled. When having children we knew that they would. Why, because that is what humans do! Yet that knowledge did not stop the wife and I from having children! Same application here ! I must say Bob, I am impressed. You said something I said made sense! Everybody on this blog is my witness!! Anyway, With God all things are possible! You are trying to understand it with a finite ,fallible human mind, thus the anology !

      January 25, 2011 at 11:02 am |
    • Something

      Steve the real one,

      "You are trying to understand it with a finite ,fallible human mind,..."

      So are you, Steve. The most you can say is, "I don't know" if there is a supernatural cause for our existence. It is not valid to rely on a book of stories of ignorant, primitive men from the Middle East, with accounts of their delusions, hallucinations, dreams and imaginings.

      January 25, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
  5. steven

    After 33 years of my life and having grown up in a very Christian based home. I have come up with the simple conclusion that all religion denominations are wrong, we put too much emphasis on what church we belong to..or what group. I don't even mean muslim, jew or Christian i just mean Christian. But heres the bottom line.

    I don't care what religion you belong to, because at the end of the day we believe what we believe and just to be fair to the non-believers (and they might be right) all this might be bull crap at the end.

    So I have decided to look back and Jesus doesn't say anything in any book about having to go to a building to believe in him or to find the truth....what I do find is this.

    REGARDLESS if religion is true or not...the fact is...we are supposed to work to better ourselves to love and respect each other more, so I don't care if the bible is true or not...I do my best to simply work to better myself and the world around me and if at the end of the day God is real then how can I be a bad person for just wanting to make the world around me better..would be remarkable to see each of us live that way for 1 year. If at the end of it all the bible was bunk..well there are worse goals in life than trying to improve ones self and the world I reside in.

    Peace

    January 25, 2011 at 2:45 am |
    • Reality

      "John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when. Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.

      The Situation Today

      Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed." – JM Somerville

      It is very disturbing that religious violence and hatred continues unabated due to radomness of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the significant stupidity of all religions.

      January 25, 2011 at 8:16 am |
  6. Sharon

    Not sure why this has turned into a debate for whether Jesus is the Son of God and the Bible is the inspired word of God. Comic may have some hints of fiction but I can assure you that God and His Son Jesus are very real. Would you like to meet Him as a Savior, or as a judge? Nothing to lose. Huge chance to take if you are wrong in not choosing to walk with the God of Love and trust Him to give direction for your life. Try Him. He loves us all.

    January 25, 2011 at 12:29 am |
  7. tallulah13

    As someone who has collected the odd graphic novel, I have to say this one doesn't look terribly original. Judging from the limited frames provided, it looks like it features the same steroid-influenced, unrealistically proportioned characters that one could find in any mass-produced comic.There's not even a spark of individuality in the characterizations that could excuse the stiffness of the figures. The coloring adds nothing to the skilled, if pedestrian landscapes. I have been known to buy graphic novels for compelling art, even if the story doesn't appeal, but this one lacks in both categories.

    If you have $25 to blow on a graphic novel, I'd recommend Steven Kings "Dark Tower" books. The art is amazing, the storytelling serviceable, (it helps if you've read the books),and your $25 gets you a hardback compilation of four or five editions.

    January 24, 2011 at 10:01 pm |
  8. Steve (the real one)

    To Luke or Bob or anyone else who would care to answer. I have a serious question guys! What role does environmental adaptation play in the theory of evolution? Bob, I would think you would appreciate this question unless you feel it is also "stupid"! I am not even sure that is what is is called but for discussion sake, lets go with that, shall we? I am serious and there is no gotchas here, I promise!

    January 24, 2011 at 9:08 pm |
    • Luke

      Read On the Origin of Species and learn it yourself. Then I suggest reading The Blind Watchmaker followed by The Greatest Show on Earth. These books explain natural selection very nicely in basic terms. If you want any books on the universe, start with a Brief History of Time. I also recommend anything by Tyson and Kaku. Of course, you should acclimate yourself with the basics of Einstein's theory of relativity down the road.

      January 24, 2011 at 9:24 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      I did read the origins of the species, the creation account in the Bible! I am asking to explore a possible point of agreement. Are you not curious what it might be?

      January 24, 2011 at 9:30 pm |
    • Luke

      No.

      January 24, 2011 at 10:11 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      Cool! Straight question, straight answer! I appreciate your honesty! Did I scare you? just kidding! Have a great night! We will chat again!

      January 24, 2011 at 10:21 pm |
  9. MV

    WOW...It sure is funny how people misunderstand religion! And just because some call themselves Christian, Catholic, Jewish, etc....does not mean they cannot have normal or even common human thoughts or actions. It is just a graphic novel to entertain some of us. Giving a different outlook on things written by a person who belongs to a large southern CA Christian community, with a couple friends. It is so funny to see how people take something and turn it into something totally different...
    To believe in a higher power or God isn't as complicated as everyone tries to make it.
    Believe for yourself...or don't.

    January 24, 2011 at 8:53 pm |
  10. Don

    So much for emulating their "prince of peace", I see. Some christians would much rather make war than follow the prescription for peace their savior supposedly laid down.

    And those christians then wonder why people call them hypocrites.

    January 24, 2011 at 8:07 pm |
  11. Enoch

    "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness.... Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:20-21

    January 24, 2011 at 6:59 pm |
    • Maybe

      Enoch,

      I'm not sure if you are a Bible believer, who is making a claim... or if you a non-believer trying to show how full of contempt this book is?

      January 24, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
  12. Gabe

    At some point, there is but one truth: We will all die. Looking critically at what the afterlife has to hold (if there is one, and I think there is one) only one religion has a system of beliefs that satisfy all the others: Bible-based Christianity. Even if Thor, Odin, or Krishna is the real god, Bible-based Christianity fulfills all moral obligations for spiritual merit. If you want to go to heaven (any heaven) follow Jesus. If you want to gamble being wrong about heaven, choose anything else, but know that you cannot go to Jesus' heaven by following Islam or Hinduism. If you really want to gamble on the afterlife being real or not, you are statistically gambling a really hard, long set of odds. If the house always wins, then why be a loser? Stack the deck with Bible-based Christianity. You will find love, peace, and a good path, and might actually realize that God loves us so much He really did send His Son Jesus (not Drill Sergeant Jesus, but kind, loving, forgiving Jesus) and wants us to live a life of love, piety, mercy, and forgiveness. Why gamble?

    January 24, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
    • Luke

      I have a question.

      What was it like before you were conceived? What makes you think death will be any different than that?

      January 24, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      Your first sentence was perfect. Why did you have to ruin it with the rest of that stuff?

      January 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
    • Enoch_knows_whos_names_are_written

      SeanNJ: Death is all you believe in apparently. Time and gravity will most surely grant you the eternal oblivion you seek.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • Eric G.

      Let us not forget that their was no hell until the arrival of your kind, loving, forgiving Jesus.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Gabe,
      "Looking critically at what the afterlife has to hold..."
      Isn't that phrase self-contradictory? How can you look critically at that which you can't know?

      January 24, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
  13. Enoch_knows_whos_names_are_written

    Atheist evangelizing their beliefs are as annoying as any religious zealot. G_d can not be proven or unproven, only known to the individual. If you want to find G_d... his finger print is the universe in the macro and the micro.

    January 24, 2011 at 4:53 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      Blah blah blah mumbo jumbo hearsay nonsense.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
  14. Jack

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Let's tell ghost stories and snuggle under the covers! Fascination with the abomination, and hey, if we can make a buck on it . . .cuse Lee Greenwood, Sarah Palin and the Tea Baggers!

    January 24, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
    • Paul Ronco

      I don't have a problem with telling ghost stories under the covers... I have a problem with priests writing free advertisements for Lockheed-Martin.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:52 pm |
  15. Luke

    You most certainly did. You have repeatedly said you feel sorry for me too. How pious of you. Do you think I am need of your aid? Again – you insinuate that I need love from you or love from your god to be happy? Untrue. You very specifically above said love cannot be an evolutionary event, when I proved it was. You ignored that comment. You also told us that love is the result of your lord, claiming a patent on love. I disproved that claim. That is insulting to everyone that has loved. You don't to claim love as yours and yours only. You also failed to answer my original questions to you, disregarding the filthy parts of the bible as "just metaphor." Fact is your god, Yahweh, called for slavery and death alongside claims of obedient love. You are very much a cherry picker. I do feel sorry for you as well.

    January 24, 2011 at 4:29 pm |
    • Anglican

      I understand your academic curiosity regarding faith, but why do you have negative comments toward those of any faith. Are you here to learn, or hate. I apologize if I offended you. I never meant to. Peace be with you.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:42 pm |
    • Luke

      Anglican

      I'm here to prove to the faithful that the faithless are also capable of love, relationships, being good, morality and sustaining a society without religion. Too long religion has claimed a patent on these things and it is my belief that millions upon millions of those that check the faithful box or go to Church randomly aren't actually religious. They just go through the motions. I am here to tell them that they are not alone and that it is ok to say you are atheist. They should not be shunned or be fearful of being cast out of society. I am here just in case they are borderline and I want them to have the confidence to reject what they (you) were indoctrinated with as a child. And it's working. Non religious is the fastest growing group in America, representing 15% of Americans, twice that of Jewish. You feel that? That's the ground moving beneath you.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:03 pm |
    • Anglican

      So who will run the soup kitchens and homeless shelters in your town? My Church feeds sixty or so homeless each morning. Will you do the same? I operate a free clinic for the poor every week. Will you ask a friend to do the same? No, you do not have to be one of faith to do this task, but you have to be organized. I guess when the atheist out number the faithful, you will organize and aid.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
    • Luke

      Anglican

      Again, you assume the religious are the only ones that do philathropic work. Just look at the Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders – both secular organizations that do good deeds without the threat of religious dogma. While the religious do indeed provide some philathropic duties, it is proven that one can be good without god. You also have to look as to why the religious volunteer. Do they do it because they want to, or feel pressure from the church or fear that god will smite them. When I volunteered at my local little league, I did it becase the kids needed me. When I read to cancer kids at the local hospital, I did it because I wanted to. Sheesh – just look at Richard Dawkins, the biggest atheist of them all. His non believers giving aid raises millions each year. And he volunteers to teach science all over the world. No patents on charity god has.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:23 pm |
    • Anglican

      Red Cross and D without B are secular agencies, but most of the guys and girls I know working for them are Christian and Jewish and Hindu. Banks are secular agencies, as well as grocery stores. Does not mean only atheist work in them.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • Bob

      > Does not mean only atheist work in them.

      You're being obtuse. You made the inference that only faithful help. Luke showed you how you were wrong. You then try to mitigate your wrongness by reducing the point.

      Let me make it clear. Bill Gates is an atheist and has done more for charity then you could ever help to accomplish.

      I'd also point out that Bill Gates has given more of his money by % then the Catholic Church has.

      This demonstrates that atheists will in fact help in charities, thereby blowing your point out of the water.

      Next objection?

      January 24, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
    • Luke

      Grovery stores? ARe you kidding? That's your argument?

      We need to work on your debating skills. I'm going home. When I get there, I expect a better reply. Talk to you in 30 mins.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
    • Obadiah

      Luke,
      I've been following your conversation with Anglican and felt compelled to comment on your following statement:

      "I'm here to prove to the faithful that the faithless are also capable of love, relationships, being good, morality and sustaining a society without religion."

      No one in this world of sin is perfect. Christians have confessed belief in the one person who was born into this imperfect world but lived without sin. Once we have accepted Christ in our life, we are supposed to live as He did and put former things, thoughts, desires of this world behind us. This is extremely difficult to do when bombarded with evil all around us and many of us fall short. As such, we don't see a lot of Christ-like behavior from Christians. This makes it hard for someone who doesn't believe to want to believe. We should be able to see a Christian, the way they walk, talk and act and know without a doubt that the person is a servant of Christ. When you said you wanted to prove that the faithless are capable of love, sure they are and some moreso than Christians. Does that mean that the walk Christ intended for his followers is wrong? No, it only means that a lot of us are still spiritually immature. But we press on.

      One of the best ways to prove to the faithful that the faithless are capable of love, is to demonstrate that behavior. The discussions and points of view can be shared lovingly and in a way that's edifying and not sarcastic. Ironically, this is the same message that Christ shared with us, love one another. Christians do not have a monopoly on moral behavior. One of my best friends doesn't believe in Christ, but he's a person of outstanding virtue and character. I once asked him and I now ask you, if you are going to live a morally righteous life anyway, what's wrong with someone who believes in Christ and that belief in Christ helps them to strive to live a morally righteous life? Shouldn't you be in support of that? Wouldn't it make the world a better place to live in?

      January 24, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
    • Luke

      Obadiah

      Thanks for the reply.

      The simple answer to your question is if there were not people like me, the religious, particularly in America, would run afoul with their charter and impress it on upon the public. We've already seen this historically speaking as the Christians conquered lands, killing in the name of. Today, we see piousness in other forms. We see it on school board councils that attempt to inject creationism into classrooms in favor of classical science. We witness it in our government. Need I remind you of the Bush Admin's strict religious behavior that led to wars in the middle east? We also witness the religious pressing their beliefs on society in terms of abortion rights. Of course, abortion is a medical issue, not religious, but the Christians made it religious in order to fight it because they saw it morally fit. That's unjust. The world needs people like me to fight religious persecution too. Ironic, right? I was one of the first (on this page) to come out in support of the Islamic Center in Downtown Manhattan. The Christians were bitter and hateful. Do yourself a favor and go back in time on this blog to see what the Christians had to say about Muslims and what the atheists had to say. Seriously...go back and read them. You'll start to understand why I fight the religious. Is it any wonder that there is a direct correlation between religiosity and racism? The world needs people like me to point out what is happening globally as well. For instance, let's look at what the Catholic church is doing in Africa. They are teaching them that condoms are bad while they have huge AIDS rates. The Church claims to be moral authority for this planet, yet they allow millions to die? Sir/MAddam – the world my not like me, but they need me.

      January 24, 2011 at 7:18 pm |
    • Anglican

      Luke. My point is that Red Cross and D with B, both secular groups, have a blend of volunteers of different faiths, as well as those with no faith. I will bet you that the Church in your city does some good for those in need.

      January 24, 2011 at 7:36 pm |
    • Obadiah

      Luke,
      Once again I must state that just because a person is a Christian does not mean that he/she is behaving/living Christ-like. My question is what's wrong with a person who does behave and live in the true image of Christ? Whether the Word is true or fable is not relevant. There was someone who lived without sin and asked us that we love one another. Is there anything wrong with that?
      Yes there has been, is presently, and will be those that abuse and surpress others in the name of religion. That doesn't make the religion wrong that makes the person wrong.

      The Word gives us a moral way to live or risk being judged for our sins. The 10 Commandments are rules that most civilizations live by. What would happen if we did away with them? With religion? With morality. Could one person kill another without consequences? Without judgement? I must disagree with you Luke. I think we need more people that are religious in the world. I for one would not want my son raised in a world with no consequences for immoral behavior.

      January 24, 2011 at 7:48 pm |
    • Luke

      Anglican, and I understand your argument. My point is to examine the reasons for philanthropic work. In Christianity, people are either forced to via preaching or go on missions to recruit souls in hopes of reaching a higher place in heaven. They do selfish acts in hopes of a benefit or spread the word of Jesus while serving soup to the homeless. Secular organizations have volunteers that, in general, are truly altruistic and selfless. There is benefit to the volunteer other than their own self worth and fuzzy feeling they get by helping others. Altruism is a genetic evolutionary leap. I argued above that love and morality are innate in other species. This is also the case with altruism and visible mainly in primates.

      January 24, 2011 at 8:56 pm |
    • Anglican

      Luke. Point taken. Please remember that not all Christians are tub-thumpers, beating people over their heads with Bibles. I judge no one. I simply try to serve. Peace be with you.

      January 24, 2011 at 9:13 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      Luke,

      You are correct SOME religions do threaten all do not! Mine does not. We do because that is what Christ would do! There is NO higher place in Heaven, my friend! You are lumping all religions together is make the good appear bad, selfish, and evil! At the same time all secularists and good, selfless, and humble! Unreasonable and illogical argument, my friend!

      January 24, 2011 at 9:14 pm |
    • Luke

      That is such an incredible cop out. Are you even aware how high of a cop out that is? It's no wonder that people in my circles like to joke by saying, "Jesus...seems like a great guy. It's his followers that we should fear." I believe Ghandi said the same, but in much better words. In any event, you are basically describing me, and I am without god or Jesus, nullifying your argument. And I disagree – there are and will always be those that abuse and suppress in the name of god. It does make religion wrong because it is religion that teaches the impressionable to divide instead of come together. The teachings of the bible and koran very specially call for murder and slavery. I believe it was Steven Weinberg who said, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

      Let's take a look at the Ten Commandments.

      1) Has nothing to do with civilization and law and is merely your god being selfish and pious. The reason why we don't see polytheistic religions anymore is because the Christians killed them.
      2) Has nothing to do with civilization, but has also been broken by every religious person and organization on the planet. No images of Christ? There goes all of your art.
      3) I can't say Yahweh? Why not? How would you know what god I am talking about? Again, nothing to do with society or civilization.
      4) When's the last time you kept Sabbath?
      5) Seems fair, but is hardly law nor does a functioning society demand that I honor my mom. But begs the question; my dad was an evil drunk that beat his wife(s). Should we honor him?
      6) Good one. All societies in developed nations have this one, even largely atheist ones like Sweden.
      7) This is not illegal. It's a matter of moral preference. I was once in an open relationship with someone I loved. Many people do this and society has nothing to do with whom we sleep with
      8) Fair enough. But I point you back to number 6.
      9) Also a good one. But I remind you that the Christians were behind the witch trials, which turned out to be about land ownership. They stole from the poor. So moral they were.
      10) This one equates woman with property; something that a man owns.

      I think you need to reread your bible. Nothing would happen if we did away with them. Turn your head towards Europe where most of the continent, particularly in France, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland and Finland, is secular and has long rejected theocratic teachings. These countries also rank far and above the US in non-violent crimes, crime, access to education, life expectancy, child mortality, access to education and access to health care. Perhaps the bible is hold us back? Methinks so.

      And you think we need more religious people in the world? Be careful what you wish for. Just look at the speed at which radical islam is spreading. Good luck having a discussion with them. You'll come to miss speaking to me.

      January 24, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • Luke

      Anglican – Oh, not all Christians are tub thumpers? So you are a cherry picker. My point proven. Have a great night. Thanks for your help, Bob.

      January 24, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Obadiah

      Luke,
      There is an underlying theme in each of the 10 Commandments that exemplified the life of Christ...love. If we loved God, we wouldn't put anyone or anything before Him. If we loved Him, then our actions, and behaviors would show it. We wouldn't worship anthing (or one) except Him, we wouldn't use His name in vain and we would certainly take the time out to honor Him. If we loved our parents we would honor them (even if one feels that they shouldn't honor their parent(s), does that mean that their child(ren) shouldn't honor them?), if we loved our spouse we wouldn't commit adultery, if we loved our neighbors, we wouldn't steal from them, lie on them or desire something that was theirs. Above all things, Love. Even in societies that reject theocratic teachings we see the basic principles of what Christ taught at work. Again I ask you, what's wrong with a person trying to 'Love' above all other things? Shouldn't we encourage this?

      January 24, 2011 at 9:45 pm |
    • Luke

      Obadiah

      Because your point of view calls for forced and obedient love when I find love to be a matter of opinion.

      January 24, 2011 at 10:13 pm |
    • Luke

      Obadiah

      And nothing in your counter-reply has anything to do with your claim that I debunked. You said all modern societies are built upon the 10 Commandments. I proved otherwise. Then you rambled about nothing to do with societies or the orders of the commandments that the religious so badly want in courthouses where people of differing faiths are tried by our laws.

      Sleep time. I get up early.

      January 24, 2011 at 10:16 pm |
    • Anglican

      Luke. I guess that is all there is to you, "being proven" Sleep well.

      January 24, 2011 at 10:22 pm |
    • Luke

      Anglican

      Another assumption and another false accusation. You are really bad at this. Worst of all, you try to belittle your opponent when your argument crumbles before you. Nevertheless, my point proven. Now try to attack my character again, it's what you're good at.

      January 25, 2011 at 6:50 am |
    • Bob

      > Luke. I guess that is all there is to you, "being proven" Sleep well.

      Yes, only believing in stuff that is proven is so limtiing. It limits us to things that actually exist instead of nonsense we wish to believe in for personal and emotional reasons. How horrible.

      Let's look at faith. What has faith led people to believe in...

      – Human sacrifice can make it rain.
      – Wars are won by eating pomagranate.
      – If you eat dates, you will be immune to poison.
      – Ra carries the sun across the sky in his chariot.
      – If you die a virgin, you are blessed.
      – Sacrificing yourself into the bog will ensure a greater harvest for the village.
      – Bread and wine become flesh and blood.
      – Thunderbolts come from Zeus.
      – If you eat a special food, you become a God.
      – Cutting someone's hair reduces his strength.

      You would say that many of these are nonsense and beliefs of primitive people from a primitive time. My question to you is this, how do you know that in the future you're faith will not be lumped in with these? Because I'm sure at the time these people were alive, they thought they were 100% correct too.

      Furthermore. Islam and Christanity are mutually exclusive. They can't both be right. But both rely on the same reason for believing, which is faith. Given that one has to be wrong by default, doesn't that mean faith can lead people astray. Doesn't that mean you rationally need to look for another reason to believe? Cause you might be wrong too!

      January 25, 2011 at 10:49 am |
  16. Paul Ronco

    Glad to see a pastor so focused on depicting barbarity, slaughter and butchery. Last time I checked, David Koresh was quite successful using the same tack.. oh yeah, and let's not forget Charles Manson and Jim Jones. To think that a man of God would spend his time working for peace... so passe.

    January 24, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
    • Jay

      you left out Nazis & islamic terrorists in your slam. amazing. when people don't have anything intelligent to say, they fall back on insults. you need to rethink the real issues here. also you need to class up your act & stop insulting people.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
    • Paul Ronco

      You're right. I should have said, "To think that a man of God would spend his time VISUALIZING and working for peace... so passe." I stand behind what I said. It is perverse for a pastor to spend his time drawing pictures of cybernetic American soldiers on steroids firing superweapons. He should hang up his robe and go work for DC Comics.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
    • Paul Ronco

      Oh and by the way, neither the Nazis nor Islamic terrorists invoke Biblical apocalyptic vision... Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Charles Manson all did. So while I'm classing up on my act, you can class up on your history.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:35 pm |
  17. Jay

    Dear Reader: if you want to look up the scriptures online, go to: http://www.biblegateway.com/

    Mr. Reality: I choose to believe the inspired, infallible, inerrant, God-Breathed Word of God rather than the words of men. If you could arrange for Mr. Jefferson or Mr. Luther to rise from the dead, I might consider their comments. I find them rather uninspiring, quite fallible, and given to error.

    January 24, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
    • Bob

      You mean how the bible is given to error? Dendrochronology, DNA, Cell Theory, Animal Physiology, these are some of the many pieces of information that prove the bible wrong.

      How could God make such rudimentary errors given that God was the one responsible for creating them. Doesn't make much sense to me.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
    • Paul Ronco

      >> I choose to believe the inspired, infallible, inerrant, God-Breathed Word of God

      Please continue to load more adjectives to that, as I am not getting the point.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
    • Paul Ronco

      By the way, infallible and inerrant are redundant.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:49 pm |
    • Paul Ronco

      God-Breathed Word of God is also redundant: who else would have breathed it?

      January 24, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
    • Jay

      Hey Bob, I'm not following your line of thought....just curious, but how does DNA possibly disprove the Bible? Cell theory? Can't get what your objection is. My bible says that man is fearfully and wonderfully made...Ps. 139:14....if your objection is that the bible & science are in conflict, check out this website: http://www.reasons.org/ Hugh Ross is a world-class astrophysicist. He points out that that more we know about the creation event, the big bang, the more we understand how Genesis chapter one completely describes it. Once again, an amazing evidence of inspiration. Equally amazing is how much science and the bible agree. Check it out, intelligent friendly discussion invited, no insults like Mr. Paul, please....

      January 24, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
    • Bob

      > how does DNA possibly disprove the Bible?

      It proves that we share a common ancestor with the great apes. Which is counter to the creation story.

      Thanks for writing.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
    • Reality

      “I believe the Bible is inspired.” “Why?” “Because it says so.” Would your
      anyone let that logic pass if it came from the followers of any other book
      or person? “I believe x is inspired because x says so.” Fill in the blanks:
      x=Pat Robertson
      x=the ayatolloah Sistani (sp?)
      x=David Koresh
      x=the Koran”
      x=Jay

      more “logic”?

      “I believe there is One God Jehovah because He is revealed in the infallible
      Bible. I believe the Bible is infallible because it is the Word of the One God Jehovah.”

      January 24, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
    • Luke

      Jay, you have to be kidding me. In the creation story, your god creates light on day 1, but stars afterwards. Clearly we know that stars pruduce light in the universe. Light just isn't "there." Your god also created trees and other plants before the sun and stars. That defies the natural order of things. We know that life, whether it be plant or animal in form, cannot live without the sun on planet earth. In other words, you are relying on your beliefs from an astrophysicist that has been shamed and shunned by his peers. Science, after all, must be peer reviewed. There, I debunked the creation myth.

      January 24, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
  18. Lucy

    Reality will prove that God is real and Armageddon is coming!! I've been studying Bible prophecy for decades and everything is going just as written. Only a fool says that there is no God.

    January 24, 2011 at 3:38 pm |
    • Bob

      Only a fool takes what is written in a book 2000 years ago and takes it as fact without any supporting evidence.

      How do you know the Bible wasn't written by satan to trick you?

      January 24, 2011 at 4:03 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Bob,

      How do YOU know evolution is not a satanic trick to keep you from The Lord? Circular argument, yes?

      January 24, 2011 at 4:18 pm |
    • Bob

      That's by far one of the most stupid responses I have gotten in a while. I'm not sure how to actually respond to it.

      I don't reject the bible because of evolution. I reject the bible because it's nonsensical, shown to be wrong by different fields of science, not internally consistent and represents a being of an IQ of 8,000,000 as being marginally retarded.

      Evolution doesn't even come into it sir.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:25 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Bob, Do I when a prize or something? Stupid because it challenges you like you challenge me! Stupid because you have no answer. You said: I'm not sure how to actually respond to it. I surmise, you can't!

      Again YOU take evolution as fact, by faith! You agree with what writers tell you, by FAITH, you agree with formulas, by Faith, you agree with data, by FAITH. It is stupid because you have no answer , Bob! You believe humans who push evolution CANNOT be wrong, by Faith! You believe piltdown bones (or whatever it is called) are actually piltdown bones and without you seeing, handling, and investigating for youself. Why is that? It is because that is what you Believe, BY FAITH! once again, FAITH! Stupid, purhaps! Foolish?, Definitely! God uses foolish things to confound the wise! I will await the answer to my question! Thanks Bob!

      January 24, 2011 at 4:46 pm |
    • Luke

      Steve the real one

      Oh Steve, you poor sap. Evolution is a fact. We can see it, test it and predict with it. Ever hear of viruses mutating to fight against our medications? That's the virus mutating from generation to generation. That's evolution Steve. We also know that humans and chimps share 98% of the same DNA, and marginally less so in Gorillas. Mice are 40% of our DNA. That is why drugs you take have mouse DNA in them (chimeric drugs). Very few drugs we take, generally for cancer, are fuilly humanized. There, I've proven to you evolution is a fact. You are never allowed to argue against it ever again because it makes you sound dumb.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Sorry, make that win a prize!

      January 24, 2011 at 5:02 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Luke, my friend! You test evolution how? By formulas created by fallible, limited humans! By data somebody said was fact and you all agree! So when science intrferes in the natural DNA process in grain to make it more resistant to drought, and disease you call that evolution? The last time we talked about viuses you used the term evolution, now you are using the term mutation! Why are the viruses mutating? Could it be human intervention rather than evolution? If not, why not!

      January 24, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
    • Bob

      > Again YOU take evolution as fact, by faith!

      Actually, I don't. You only want me to because it somehow makes you think that your faith is valid. It's not.

      And yes, it was a stupid comment. Deal with it.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:22 pm |
    • Bob

      > You test evolution how?

      You can test evolution many ways. The problem is that you're completely ignorant in the subject. One way to test evolution is to look at claves. Another way is to look at the DNA of creatures.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
    • Luke

      Steve the real one

      We test evolution in many ways. The slow process was comparing Darwin's theory against geology and plate tectonic theory. In short, animals with common features that are on different land masses have connecting ancestors in areas that used to touch. That is, animals in Africa are cousins to animals in South America and share sa common ancestor from when the contientents touched long ago. The short way is to look at the human genome. When we broke down human DNA, we saw which chromsomes fused that were once chimp DNA. If not for this chromosome fusion, we'd be chimps. Darwin predicted this. The human genome project confrimed it. That's called testing. Now stop arguiing.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      No Bob,

      It is YOU who has to deal with my "stupid comment", which you STILL did not answer btw!

      January 24, 2011 at 7:48 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      @Luke who said: In short, animals with common features that are on different land masses have connecting ancestors in areas that used to touch. That is, animals in Africa are cousins to animals in South America and share sa common ancestor from when the contientents touched long ago.

      Wait a minute! That is your argument? Do you realize you just made an argument for the creation? Read (you probably won't) the account in Genesis. God created the animals, Adam named them! He (God) them told them to be fruitful and multiply! So I am not in the least a bit surprised about the relationship. You attribute it to evolution and I attribute it to creation!

      January 24, 2011 at 7:57 pm |
    • Bob

      > It is YOU who has to deal with my "stupid comment", which you STILL did not answer btw!

      I did address it. I told you it was stupid then explained to you that evolution isn't keeping me from following Jesus, common sense, logic and an understanding of the world we live in is what prevents me from swallowing that nonsense.

      First of all, Dendrochronology has gone as far back as 26,000 years from 2004. That is to say, it blows the 6,000 or 15,000 year (depending on interpretation) age of the earth represented in the bible out of the water.

      Secondly, DNA has proven conclusively that we are related. For example, in humans we have fused chromosomes from a common ancestor with chimps.

      Third, there is no evidence for God. And even if there was, that wouldn't be evidence for YOUR God.

      Fourth, the logical default position on anything is to not believe until shown evidence.

      I could go on and on. Talking about the flaws of faith, about evidence and how it works, levels of evidence, etc.

      January 25, 2011 at 10:41 am |
  19. Jay

    Why do the heathen rage...? Ps. 2:1a
    You people would have the same trouble reading an intimate love letter exchanged between a man and his betrothed. All this confusion is because you are trying to read somebody else's mail! If you knew the ultimate author in a real and personal way, the book would make a lot more sense to you.
    Here are a few literal fulfillments of prophecy in Revelation:
    1) the confederacy of nations opposing Israel has already formed. Iran is committed to the destruction of Israel. Rev. 17-20, see also Ez. 38: Rosh = Russia, Meshech = Moscow, Tubol = Tobolsk, Magog = Turkey, Babylon = Iraq, Gomer = Germany, Put = Libya, Cush = Sudan, Persia = Iran
    2) to get a first century man's version of the vision of a mirv missle attack, nuclear detonations, and fallout shelters full of those who seek refuge in them, see Rev 6:12-17....
    3) a prediction of the bitter taste of uranium and plutonium dust in the fallout following a nuclear attack: Rev 8:10-11. Note: Wormwood is translated in Russian as CHERNOBYL....the Chernobyl Wormwood dust will taste as bitter as the Wormwood herb (absinth)....Remember what happened at Chernobyl a few years ago? What a picture!
    4) to get a first century man's take on seeing an Apache attack hellicopter division coming from long range to attack, see Rev 9:1-12...remember that this is written from the viewpoint of a man who had never seen anything but insects and birds flying: locusts = apache attack helicopters; crowns of gold = pilot's helmets; faces of men = pilots' faces; hair like women's hair = the hair of women pilots; lions' teeth = the gaping toothy decals painted on the front of the helicopters; breastplates = flak jackets; sound of wings = the roar of the helicopter blades; sting in their tails = rear mounted artillery
    5) the Temple of God will be rebuilt on the Temple Mount. There are 12 groups in Israel actively preparing for the re-establisment of the Temple cult. See http://www.squidoo.com/templejerusalem There has to be a Temple for Rev 11:1 to be fulfilled. It is going to happen whether the Muslims like it or not. This may actually provoke the war of Armageddon.
    6) Plate tectonics: There is a fault line running under the Mount of Olives. Jerusalem will be torn apart by an earthquake. Part of the Mount of Olives will move north and part will move to the south. Rev 16:19. See also Zech 14:4. There is no way that the prophet Zecharia could have known about the major fault line running north and south which is under the Mount of Olives unless God had revealed it to him, a stunning proof of the inspiration of the book.
    7) Drying up of the Euphrates. See Rev 16:12. For a prophet to predict this at all would be an amazing strech since the Euphrates river system is one of the biggest in the world. This drying up of the southern end of the river literally happed during Saddam Hussein's regime. All it would take for it to re-occur is for the President of Turkey to order closed the spillways on all the dams built on the Euphrates and Tigris rivers and their tributaries which are in Turkey. It could happen.

    Dear Reader: Try to remember that the visions John saw were about as strange as if a 42" tv screen showing modern day CNN broadcasts were to suddenly materialize in from of him. A first century man simply does not have a point of reference for things like nuclear detonations and apache attack helicopters. So he would have to describe what he saw metaphorically using things he was familiar with like stars, locust, absinth wormwood herbs, etc. This is why people have so much trouble making sense of Revelation.

    January 24, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Good work Jay,

      Folks want "evidence" and you have provided. Let's see what the new compliants will be and how far back they push the target !

      January 24, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • Reality

      "And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His Father,in the womb of a vir-gin,
      will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.

      – Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

      Letter to John Adams, from Monticello, April 11, 1823.

      And then: "Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books".[30] Thomas Jefferson omitted it along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31]

      Martin Luther "found it an offensive piece of work" and John Calvin "had grave doubts about its value."[32]

      January 24, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Reality,

      I never knew Jefferson was a theologian! Where can I find that in a US History book, please? Please exclude any liberal, leftist drivel or dribble!, or whatever! Just a good ole US history book, please! Thank you!

      January 24, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
    • Bob

      Is this what passes for evidence these days? I could find verses in Harry Potter that can be shown in reality. Does that mean it's true?

      January 24, 2011 at 4:17 pm |
    • Luke

      Bob – Harry Potter isn't true? What are you talking about? I see Harry on TV all the time and even saw him on Broadway.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
  20. Rebecca

    No, my Bible is proving to me that it is correct. If you would actually read it you would see the prophecy is coming true right before our eyes. There are earthquakes in many places.. Look at last year a record for natural disasters. God says only a fool says in his heart "There is no God" He says that he has placed the knowledge of him in our hearts. He has definetely shown me he is real. I know by what he has done in my life and how he has changed me. He has set me free from many sins. I first received Jesus in my heart in 1986 after my mom died. We were in one of the cars heading to the cemetary and I told my brother I didn't want to go to hell, so I prayed the sinners prayer with him and he asked God to show me he was real. While I was sitting under the tent in front of my mothers casket shivering from the cold, it was like a bubble descended on me. I felt complete peace, warmth, my teeth stopped chattering. This lasted several minutes and slowly wore off, but from that time on, I have known he is real.

    January 24, 2011 at 2:18 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Yeah, earthquakes. I fondly remember the years before the earthquakes started. A whole new scary phenomenon descended upon our peaceful planet! Next thing you know we'll have holes appear in the ground and the very core of our earth will spew and flow from them!

      January 24, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Please provide a defintive and unambiguous list of fulfilled prophecies. I have never been able to find such as list.

      January 24, 2011 at 2:27 pm |
    • Luke

      You do realize that the early earth was much more volcanically active than today, right? We have concrete evidence of much more violent earthquakes tends of thousands of years ago and millions of years ago? Just how do you think South American and Africa split? And how do you think the Himalayas grew? drrrrrr.........

      January 24, 2011 at 2:52 pm |
    • Lucy

      I'm with you, Rebecca. They cannot even see the Kingdom of God until they open their hearts to Jesus. Those who mock are blind.

      January 24, 2011 at 3:40 pm |
    • Bob

      > I'm with you, Rebecca. They cannot even see the Kingdom of God until they open their hearts to Jesus. Those who mock are blind.

      They cannot even see the Kingdom of Allah until they open their hearts to Muhammad(PBUH). Those who mock are blind.

      Prove my above statement wrong. Then maybe you'll understand why your statement is pointless and silly. 😀

      January 24, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
    • Luke

      > I'm with you, Rebecca. They cannot even see the Kingdom of God until they open their hearts to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Those who mock are blind.

      They cannot even see the Kingdom of FSM until they open their hearts to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Those who mock are blind.

      Prove me wrong – all of you.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:11 pm |
    • Bob

      Beat ya Luke!

      January 24, 2011 at 4:27 pm |
    • Luke

      Funny how our minds went to teh same place, but with different entiies. You go with Muslims. I go with the FSM. Whatevs.

      January 24, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
    • Bob

      I go with Muslims because it's something that they generally have to put down. Ie, it's a competing faith. FSM can be dismissed offhandedly because they don't grasp the point.

      January 24, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.