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January 25th, 2011
07:00 AM ET
Fight emerges over yoga's religious rootsBy Wes Little, CNN Sheetal Shah, an official with the Hindu American Foundation, hears a lot about the physical practice of yoga these days - but not much about its religious roots. So her group, which seeks to provide what it calls "a progressive voice for American Hindus," recently mounted a "take back yoga" campaign, including appearances at conferences and attempts to raise media awareness of the practice's Hindu origins. For Shah, who is the Hindu American Foundation's senior director, yoga is primarily a moral and spiritual philosophy, a fact she says has been lost as the popularity of physical yoga has boomed in the West. "There has been a conscious de-linking between Hinduism and yoga," in the United States and elsewhere, she says. Yoga is mentioned in many of the ancient Indian texts that form the basis of the religion now known as Hinduism, which claims to be the world's oldest religion - and which is the third most-practiced faith on the planet. One main source of yoga philosophy is the sage Patanjali, who lived in the 2nd century B.C. and whose Yoga Sutras describe a philosophy comprising 8 limbs, one of which is the physical poses, or asanas, which are commonly referred to as yoga in the West. Other elements of Patanjali's yogic philosophy are concepts like the yamas, moral vows that include chastity and nonviolence.  Sheetal Shah of the Hindu American Foundation practices yoga asanas in her home. She tries to incorporate yogic concepts like nonviolence into her life. In a yoga class offered by the Hindu Temple Society of North America in a New York temple, yoga is taught as a spiritual practice in which the physical asanas are an essential component. But the practice is supposed to lead to meditation. "Yoga is really a spiritual discipline," says Uma Mysorekar, the Hindu Temple Society of North America's president. "From its origin in Hinduism, yoga really originated from a Sanskrit word yuj, which means union." That union is supposed to happen, she said, "between individual being or the soul with Paramatman," or cosmic being. According to a 2008 study commissioned by Yoga Journal, there are roughly 16 million yoga practitioners in the United States. Those people spend $5.7 billion dollars a year on yoga classes and gear. Most of that yoga is marketed as physical exercise as a health practice. Some Sanskrit terminology is usually used, and many practitioners in a non-religious context say they sense a vaguely spiritual aspect in the activity. But most American practitioners wouldn’t go nearly so far as to label yoga as a religious act or even to relate it to a specific religious tradition. "Yoga is a great thing, no matter what style you do, how you come about it, why you come about it, what you end up with spiritually from it," says Donna Rubin, the founder of Bikram Yoga NYC, a New York chain of yoga studios offering yoga in the style of Bikram Choudhury, a contemporary Indian yogi who now lives in Los Angeles. "So to start nitpicking or criticizing this type of yoga or that type of yoga or what it's not doing or what it should be doing, I don't really see the point of that." Bikram yoga involves a set series of postures performed in a heated room. "Bikram has developed this specific series so that it's more accessible," said Christopher Totaro, a Bikram Yoga NYC instructor. "It's more palatable to a wider demographic of people by pulling that religious part or separating that religious part from it."  Yoga students exercise at an Atlanta Hot Yoga class in Atlanta, Georgia. Classes are conducted in a room heated to around 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Among those that have taken up yoga in the United States are devout followers of Western religions. Atlanta, Georgia's Northside Drive Baptist Church holds a weekly yoga class. Amanda Gregg, who instructs the class, says that she is respectful of Hinduism but argues that yoga didn't "come from" Hinduism as much as it developed alongside the religious tradition. "Although Hinduism and yoga grew out at the same time of the Indian subcontinent and there are references to yoga in the Upanishads and in the Bhagavad Gita, that doesn't mean that Hinduism has the exclusive hold on yoga," she said, referring to sacred Hindu texts. "Sort of like Jews don't have the exclusive hold on prayer." Some churches attempt to "Christianize" yoga by adding Bible verses to the practice, but Northside Drive Baptist Church does not. The Hindu American Foundation, meanwhile, says that while yoga is not just for Hindus, it can't be totally divorced from its religious roots. Shah says the organization's campaign is helping to gain wider acceptance for that view. "People are now starting to put yoga and Hindu in the same sentence, in the same paragraph," she says. "They may not be agreeing with (our) stance but they are thinking about it they're talking about it." "People who had never even thought of this are starting to explore this idea that maybe there is some sort of connection," she says.
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Western people's (and this includes people from both the right and left) racism, bigotry and arrogant sense of entilement to non-white, non-christian peoples cultures, traditions, customs and religions without an iota of acknowledgment as to their indigenous contribution is nothing new. Neo-colonialism.
Our ancestors survived earlier Western racism, bigotry and negative stereotypes, and cliches, and pillaging of everything indigenous that indigenous people held. We are as strong as our ancestors and we too will survive neo-colonialisms by both the Western left and Western right's pillaging of Hinduism, and modern day racism,bigotry, negative stereotypes and cliches against Hinduism. We will not let them get away with their neo-colonial pillagin of everything good of Hinduism – delinking yoga or the Vedas or anything else that has always been in Hinduism. To them Hinduism is nothing but their prejudices, and they have such hang ups with their racism and bigotry against Hinduism that they can never allow anything they like in Hinduism to be associated with Hinduism. But that is their prejudice. That is not what we have to live with. We know what Hinduism is, we know the Vedas and Yoga are Hinduism. Wess Little, and Sheetal Shah (if you are not already aware Sheetal) look for this book, "The Hindu Mind" by Bansi Pandit. In Sanatana Dharma (aka Hinduism) the authority of the Vedas is central. Orthodox Hinduism accepts the authority of the Vedas. There are six branches of orthodox Hinduism: Uttara Mimamsa (founder Sage Vyasa), Purva Mimamsa (founder Sage Jaimini), Sankhya (founder Sage Kapila), Yoga (founder Sage Pantanjali) Nyaya (founder Sage Gautama – not to be confused with the Buddha), and Vaiseshika (founder Sage Kanda). Yoga is a one of the six branches of orthodox Hinduism. This controversy with Yoga only exists in the West because Western people are still racists and bigots and those on the left participating in the lame and dishonest delinking of Yoga from Hinduism are just as big a bunch of racist and bigots as those on the right. There is no delinking in India of one of the six branches of orthodox Hinduism (authority of the Vedas is accepted) Yoga from Hinduism.
What's especially interesting is that we never try to dismiss Western achievements and fully acknowledge them. They seem to have some kind of ego issue/ mental block in acknowledging achievements of others.
They are used to behaving this way. Their Western colonial ancestors were no better, and they are just more slick in their racism and bigotry (oh it doesn't matter where it comes from – lame way to not give recognition to indigenous people by pretending to be unconcerned) but they are no better than their ancestors.
I prefer the Christian fundamentalist preacher who rejects Yoga because it is Hinduism, than the granola crunching yoga loving Hindu hating leftist who shamelessly delinks Yoga from Hinduism. At least the Christian fundamentalist recognizes that Yoga is Hinduism, and thus is far better than the bigoted leftist who thinks he is such a wonderful tolerant human and so much better than those awful Christian fundamentalists. Give me the Christian fundamentalist who rejects Yoga because it is Hinduism over the Hindu hating Yoga loving leftist any day.
Wes Little and Sheetal Shah also look into this book The Heart of Yoga by TKV Desikachar, "Yoga is one of the six fundamental systems ... known as darshana; the other five darshana are nyaya, vaisesika, samkhya, mimamsa, and vedanta.. The word darshana is derived from the Sanskrit root drs, which translates as "to see." Darshana therefore means "sight," "view," "point of view," or even "a certain way of seeing." But beyond these lie another meaning; to understand this one we must conjure an image of a mirror with which we can look inside ourselves. ...We look deeper inside ourselves as we come to terms with the teachings. As one of the six darshanas, yoga has its origins in the Vedas...It was systemized as a special darshana by the great sage Pantanjali in the Yoga Sutra..."
Arguing over this subject is like running a race in the Special Olympics, even if you win you are still a retard and all you have done is beat other retards.
After reading that, I can see why you feel the need to name yourself after a cartoon! Not quite oozing with compassion towards those who are challenged mentally!
woo hoo
Stop quoting ducktales, you. Stick to your snacks! 😀
Its a real shame that the west especially america is not giving credit were credit is due. The Hindu faith is the oldest of its kind and Yoga is a practise of the Hindu faith whether westerners like it or not!
Please...The intent is to recognize that Yoga originated from Hinduism and Hinduism should be aknowledged by so called high flying yoga/spritual gurus in the west (Deepak Chopra clan who never aknowledges hindusim for its due credit to my knowledge) . This is not to downplay any other religions but to educate people that Yoga is a the most valuable gift from Hinduism to human kind and Hinduism is not just about falsely claimed cows and casts.
The High flyers needed the cover to get the money from folks in the West. The Westerners were brainwashed since the 19th century to believe that Hindus are inherently inferior. Infact, many were shocked to see so many Scientists and Engineers who were Hindu (esp. in places like Silicon Valley). Even today, they cannot yet fully accept it. Had they known about the 5000 year old tradition of Mathematics in Hinduism, this would not have been surprising.
@asmit
I could be wrong, but I have watched, read, and heard enough from Deepak to know, that a good majority of his teachings 'are' based in Hinduism. He often discusses the Vedas, etc...
You may want to re-evaluate your assesment of Deepak.
Peace...
Would this be the same Deepak "Woo Woo" Chopra that got "sliced and diced" during a debate by a couple of atheists? If so, the only thing I would give him credit for is being able to make a living off the blah, blah, blah, mystical crap he peddles. But then, there are many gullible people (sheep, suckers, etc.) out there.
@HotAirAce
Not sure who you are directing your post to, however, my comment was purely correcting -asmit on the fact that Deepak does discuss and speak on Hinduism, as was discussed in the initial post.
I am not commenting on whether or not the 'quality' of content is to anyone's approval or not.
Peace...
@Peace2All
Sorry, I could have been more specific, but it was more a general comment than a question to specific person.
This is interesting, been looking into starting doing yoga for awhile.
-------------–
rudeofallreligion.com
There are two wonderful books available through Self Realization Fellowship, "The Yoga of Christ" and the "Yoga of Krisha". Give them a read if you are interested in yoga as a spiritual practice.
Sheetal Shah looks like she would be fun on a date!!!
David Johnson
@Ravi
Christians are deluded. It really isn't hard to understand.
Cheers
Gee, you people are so kind towards Christians. Why the name calling? Mayby Christians think you are "deluded". Whats the point? Live and let live
@Darlene
You said: "Gee, you people are so kind towards Christians. Why the name calling? Mayby Christians think you are "deluded". Whats the point? Live and let live"
Would, that I could. The Christians in this country, feel the need establish a theocracy, with Jesus as Head of State. Since no one would be able to hear Jesus (dead for 2000+ years), the Evangelicals would tell us His will. They will rule by proxy. Everything from what is art and not not art, to abortion, would be controlled by the fundies.
If the religious were willing to keep their religion in their homes, churches and communities, I would wish them all the best.
"Religion poisons everything" – Christopher Hitchens
Cheers!
David Johnson,
Jesus will reign and I will wait for that but I don't want a theocracy here! Why? Easy what human do I trust enought to run it? No one! Not even myself! Power has the ability to change people (even Christians, if we are not careful). Secondly, when the Christian theocracy is overthrow, what is next? I will await the reign of christ!
@Steve the real one
You said: "I will await the reign of christ!"
Well, wear something warm. I bet it gets mighty chilly in the Pumpkin' Patch, and I think several generations of Steve the real ones, will need to take up the post. All, waiting on a fellow who cashed in his chips long ago.
Let's grab that bottle of Jack, sit by the fire, and I will make a thinking person of you by morning!
Cheers!
David Johnosn,
Why do I have this sudden ability to know what you are going to say before you even say it? What could it be? Radiation over load? Nah! Gamma rays? No! A lightning strike? Nope! David Johnson's constant and persistent need post the same thing over and over again! BINGO we have a winner! You and Reality related in some way? Look, I really appreciate your seemly carefor my spiritual well being, I really do! BUT there is NOT ONE word you can utter , cut and paste, think, or type that will change my mind! However my spidey senses are tingling and I can feel another David Johnson post coming asking me to prove him wrong! Go ahead! This is America and I strongly believe in the 1st Amendment! Write it quickly as the tingle is now a tickle!
David Johnson,
My post script! Make that Jack a frosty A&W root beer and I wouldn't mind sitting around that fire with you. Just not so close, I'm not so sure you won't try to "accidently" knock me into it!
Every generation has predicted the apocalypse in their time. It help scare people towards religion. The same people that scream religious freedom and separation of church and state keep trying to pass pro-life laws that are Christian in origin and elect religious leaders to office to represent their religious values.
BigOil
Ofcourse, if there is anything good from India or Hinduism, it's immediately who cares where it came from. But, if it's something negative or can be used to deride Indians or Hindus then it's immediately jumped upon. This started in the West from the 19th century colonial period, where they was an impulse to show the superiority of the European race, so naturally all Non-Western achievements have to be dismissed.
NOT my point BigOil...I was trying to put across the thought, it is what it is, and wherever it came from (I don't know much at all about Yoga) who cares ENUFF to start an argument about it. Period. No negatism at all on any front
I was trying to put across the thought, it is what it is, and wherever it came from (I don't know much at all about Yoga) who cares ENUFF to start an argument about it. Period. No negatism at all on any front
Of course a person who admits she doesn't know much at all about Yoga doesn't care about where it comes from. Why would something you know nothing about matter at all to you.
The non-white non-Christian people who know about Yoga and where it comes from, do care about the dishonest delinking of Yoga from Hinduism by Westerners.
So you know a little bit more about Yoga, I am posting here what I posted below:
In Sanatana Dharma (aka Hinduism) the authority of the Vedas is central. Orthodox Hinduism accepts the authority of the Vedas. There are six branches of orthodox Hinduism: Uttara Mimamsa (founder Sage Vyasa), Purva Mimamsa (founder Sage Jaimini), Sankhya (founder Sage Kapila), Yoga (founder Sage Pantanjali) Nyaya (founder Sage Gautama – not to be confused with the Buddha), and Vaiseshika (founder Sage Kanda). Yoga is a one of the six branches of orthodox Hinduism. This controversy with Yoga only exists in the West because Western people are still racists and bigots and those on the left participating in the lame and dishonest delinking of Yoga from Hinduism are just as big a bunch of racist and bigots as those on the right. There is no delinking in India of one of the six branches of orthodox Hinduism (authority of the Vedas is accepted) Yoga from Hinduism.
An except from the book The Hindu Mind by Bansi Pandit also from one of my posts below:
Yogic tradition among Hindus began thousands of years ago in India. While the Upanishads are the original source of yoga philosophy, yoga is expounded in many sections of the Hindu epic Mahabharata. The Bhagavad Gita gives a universal expression to the yogic teachings. Etymologically, the Sanskrit word yoga is derived from the root word yuj, meaning union. A person who seeks after this union is called a yogin or yogini. Vendanta defines yoga as a means of uniting the individual being (jivatman) with the Cosmic Self (Paramatman). When the word Yoga is used by Westerners, it generally means Hatha Yoga, which is an ancient Hindu system of physical exercises and breathing techniques designed to maintain a healthy body. Hindu Scriptures use the word yoga as a synonym for sadhana, meaning a spiritual discipline. There are four main disciplines of yoga: Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Raja Yoga.....Raja Yoga is also called Ashtanga Yoga. "The Yoga of eight limbs or steps." Ashta means eight and anga means limbs of part. The eight limbs of this yogic discipline are: Yama (restraints), Niyama (observances), Asana (posture or seat), Pranayama (breath control), Pratyahara (withdrawing the mind from sense perception), Dharna (concentration), Dhyana (meditation), and Samadhi (union with God)....Hatha Yoga is a branch of Raja Yoga and includes the first four steps (Yama, Niyama, Asana, and Pranayama) of Raja Yoga.
Christ himself spent most of his youth in Kashmir/India practicing meditation, looking for enlightnment. He then went back to where he was born and tried to preach them to live in peace and harmony and ultimately got killed
He DID live in peace and harmony, and he DIED for the sins of the world, so ALL men could have access to Heaven. You said" ultimately, and got killed, like it was because he was trying to live in peace and harmony, and somebody did him in for it.
He WILLINGLY died, as in sacrificed his life for mankind.
Just want to be sure you got it right.
@Darnall
I have hear these unsubstantiated assertions before concerning the 'lost years' of Yeshua. However, do you happen to have any kind of verifiable evidence that you can point me to that he, was in fact... in India...?
Thanks...
Peace...
**heard**
Peace...
Peace,
The Bible is silent on Christ from (approx) ages 2 -11. At age 12 he taught in in the temple. Not sure where the India story is coming from! This is from a Christian perspective!
@Steve the real one
So.... where the heck was Yeshua from the age of 12 to 30...? The gospels make -0- mention of those 18 years. I think there may be some va-gue reference in the gospel of Luke somewhere, but, what happened...?
Peace...
The Bible is silent on lots of things. What did Judas do before he met Jesus? In the absence of evidence - which seems to be the popular way to start assertions around here - I'm going to suggest he was in India, learning to value money over the lives of friends.
It's a valid theory, right?
My theory is that jc was heavily into drugs (explains his delusions and death wish) and fornication (all sorts) and that the men who determined what would go into one cult's book of magic decided not to include it. Equally valid theory, yes?
All theories are valid. Though I doubt Jesus was into fornication and drugs - those would have been frowned upon out in the sticks of the Roman Empire. In Rome itself, certainly. But in Jerusalem? Not so much, especially not with the locals like the Pharisees poking around everyone's business.
@Sweetenedtea
So maybe it was his drug and s3x habits that got him crucified, not some elaborate mystical "son of god" drama. Equally valid theory, right? :^)
"Fight emerges over yoga's religious roots"
You don't want to mess with them yoga people. Very limber and flexible.
Well... there is ample evidence that the most common asanas (positions) used in "western" yoga practice are not Indian, but are Danish, from the 1920s. Check out Mark Singleton's book "Yoga Body: The Origins of Modern Posture Practice." As one reviewer says "...yoga as we know it today does not flow directly from the Yoga Sutras or India's medieval yoga traditions, but rather emerged out of a confluence of practices, movements and ideologies, ranging from contortionist acts in carnival sideshows, British Army calisthenics and women's stretching exercises to social Darwinism, eugenics, and the Indian nationalist movement." You can find pictures of the asanas (yes – downward facing dog, warrior, table, etc.) in Danish exercise books from the period – it was an exercise system that became immensely popular in India in the beginning of the 20th century. Good article about this in the November issue of the Yoga Journal. So the argument about Yoga being Hindi (from the point of the physical postures) in kind of moot... I'm a yoga practicioner myself and this recent discovery doesn't bother me (as has been said, "Yoga is Yoga") but it's driving some people to frothing at the mouth. As Buddhists say "Everything Changes..."
"You can find pictures of the asanas (yes – downward facing dog, warrior, table, etc.) in Danish exercise books from the period – it was an exercise system that became immensely popular in India in the beginning of the 20th century. Good article about this in the November issue of the Yoga Journal. So the argument about Yoga being Hindi "
That's laughable. You use Sanskrit terms like Asana's and Yoga and yet it's danish? You don't even know the difference between Hindu (religion) and Hindi (language). This is exactly my point, even in cases where the origin is obvious, Hindu/Indian achievements are immediately dismissed. That's because Europeans have a mental block to accept anything Non-Western. It's time to move one, Western Civilization shot way ahead in the last 200 years, but that Ship has changed course now, it's just a matter of time when the world becomes a more balanced place. If people can't even acknowledge something so basic, it totally proves the point that many in the West are still stuck in either convincing others and themselves that they are somehow superior and are the only ones capable of innovation.
Just like Christmas is not renamed Saturnalia of Pagans and Jesus apotheosis of fertility god Mithra, Yoga is not Hinduism.
Mithra rose from dead after three days of Winter Solstice on Dec 25. Now his antics are miracles of a "Christian god" who never was anything but Christian. You are hoping that Yoga will become Danish in the like fashion. You are counting on the Christian genius for subversion , co-option and appropriation for all this.
The traditions that have been at the receiving of your love have vanished, although some left some traces.
Yoga Journal – pretty white yuppy journal. Hardly see a non-white face never mind an Indian Hindu face. Seeing the non-white, non-Christan people through white eyes without giving the non-white non-Christian people an iota of recognition for Yoga. Their white Western racist bigoted imperial colonial ancestors would be proud..
BT I was talking about Yoga Journal.
@BT... you need LA Fitness and see some Psychiatrist as soon as possible. You must be fit before China takes over the global power..you dont want to be humiliated by a skinny Chinese right in front of your apartment.
Leave Yoga to intelligent "human"!
Whats Next? Copy Vedas and call them Lost/Found Bible verses ?
Weren't the three wise guys from the east who came to see Jesus also from India (i.e. Hindu influenced)
Where was Jesus Christ when he was a kid or young adult. It is only when he grows up you see him. As per some Northern Indian Ashrams, Christ himself spent most of his youth in Kashmir/India practicing meditation, looking for enlightnment. He then went back to where he was born and tried to preach them to live in peace and harmony and ultimately got killed. No wonder some people dont give credit where it belongs. Anyway Hinduism is atleast 5000BC practice. There are written texts in Sanskrit from that time. Karma has a way of playing out itself whether you believe it or not. Hinduism also believes some things dont change no matter what. For example – TRUTH. Try hard.
"Anyway Hinduism is a tleast 5000BC practice. " Agreed abput Jesus. There is ample evidence for that. But II think that yoga and the Vedas are an ancient practice but that "Hinduism" does not go back to 5000 BC. Just because there are texts in Sanskrit that far back does not make them Hindu. Most Indian Yogis do not claim to be Hindu.
"There is ample evidence for that. But II think that yoga and the Vedas are an ancient practice but that "Hinduism" does not go back to 5000 BC"
Is that a joke? Hindu comes from Sindu, i.e. all practices on that side of the River, so yes our Indian ancestors were Vedic and Hindu. If you don't like it because that's your problem. You weren't the only one's coming up with ideas in the world.
Infact the West was one of the most backward places on Earth till about 200 years ago.
"Most Indian Yogis do not claim to be Hindu."
They needed that cover to spread the ideas, because Hinduism was demonized viciously in the West. If they are seen as "Hindu" ideas then it's easier to dismiss them, but if they given a cover of being "generally" spiritual etc, then they can be exported duty free. I agree with them that any ideas should be adopted by whoever want's to, nor as Hindus do we believe in proselytization. But, there is another dimension to this, which dates to the 19th century that of ultra-nationalism in the West where any Non-White achievements were immediately downplayed to prove a kind of IQ hierarchy/ superiority.
"Just because there are texts in Sanskrit that far back does not make them Hindu"
If it weren't for Hindus preserving this knowledge for 5000 years, you wouldn't even know that Yoga or Sanskrit is. Sanskrit and Vedas are 100% Indian and Hindu in origin.
@BigOil
VERY well said...
Peace...
Ms. Amanda Gregg, why are you so scared? We Hindus did not ask for complete hold on Yoga. This thought came out of your fear.
People in the Eastern countries have been practicing Yoga for centuries and recognized it as Hindu contribution. But when it comes to West, there is deliberate attempt to hide the actual roots of Yoga. What is the reason for this fear? What is the need for "Christian Yoga". Can't we expect common decency from this so called most advanced and intelligent society?
I picked up the following comment from different site. This is what a fellow Hindu had to say....
"Whenever I step on an airplane, I thank the Wright Brothers. Why can't the West appreciate Hindus for Yoga?".
Thank you for not dipping Yoga in Bible soup.
Namaste
Exactly, we don't dismiss Western achievements, I think it's wrong to not give credit where it's due.
@Ravi,
Not sure about, 'thanking the Wright brothers' whenever getting on an airplane, but I agree that acknowledging Yoga's beginnings in India and Hindu seems obvious and pretty basic.
Yes, "Christian Yoga" sounds silly.
@Ravi
Christians are deluded. It really isn't hard to understand.
Cheers!
Glad to see Ravi's and BigOil's comments defending Hinduism and Yoga here. What you both have said is true by every word. The West has a sense of greatness and they are blinded by it so much that they don't want to acknowledge something positive that didn't come from them. In the West, practicing Yoga has become fashion. I have seen many many people who just cannot digest another country or another religion being better in something. That is the reason you see so many ignorant people in the USA. Either they don't know or they know and don't want to accept.
Yoga is an integral part of Hinduism and ONLY Hinduism and will always be. Anybody who claims otherwise is only trying to cover up the truth. This is just another form of Christianity trying to influence the whole world JUST to get their numbers high and eradicate every other religion from the World.
@Ravi
Agreed...
Peace...
Nonimus-
Yes, "Christian Yoga" sounds silly.
About as silly as "Christian Heavy Metal?"
Gee, it's almost like they're trying to create their own 'Kosher' branding for everything. Just rinse away all secular or other religions elements from something, add some moments to pray to Jesus, hammer on the Christian stamp and it's off to the races. I don't know, but would you call that culture theft?
@NL
Hey bud...
Yes, that could definitely be one way of framing this issue.
Peace...
praying appears in all religions, it cant be attributed to Judaism. but yoga came from hindu people, if not the religion/way of life.
@Ravi, I think the answer to that is the Christian belief that anything that doesnt lead to their Christ is evil and delusional. Many of them cant even handle a fictional Harry Potter let alone a religion with a solid following. So, the reality is they are threatened by their own religion. If they follow a false god they will go to their hell..............so, it makes sense that they would try to "Christioanize" Yoga in order to ensure they can still get in to heaven. Christians have been doing it for years.....Christmas/Yule, Easter/Beltane etc........... so there you have it............ It's a pity really that they are so afraid of a poor after life they will try to move something into their realm so they can partake of a wonderful practice and experience.
@Ravi, while I agree with almost everything you said, you shouldn't be thanking the Wright brothers for flight. That was a feat first concurred by a Brazilian by the name of Alberto Santos-Dumont.
Namaste.
@Ipanema
Depending upon your definition of "flight," the Montgolfiere brothers or Professor Charles might disagree with you.
News flash everybody! The martial arts have eastern religious roots too! Anybody care to comment?
@Steve the real one
You said: "News flash everybody! The martial arts have eastern religious roots too! Anybody care to comment?"
All religion is false. All gods are created by man.
Prove me wrong, Steve.
Cheers!
David Johson,
You mean whether the human deities are absolute. They are Ista Devata's (Preferred Deity), in other words seen in that form by someone, not absolute, rather than all wrong they are all right. Are you saying that nothing exists? There is a Hindu school of philosophy for that. I think the slightly opposite, there is only one thing, Brahman, it includes everything. We are part of this everything, we just think we are separate. Perhaps Nothing and everything may actually be the same thing.
@Steve the real one
Hey Steve...!
As a martial artist having studied and practiced a variety of martial arts for years, including Kenpo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, etc... I would love to comment, however, I'm not sure what your question is concerning martial arts and their history and origins from the East...?
Peace...
Hi Peace,
Just starting a conversation! Perhap tossing another log on the fire! Judging by the responses, it didn't work so well! Maybe that's a good thing!
David your comment had nothing to do with martial arts having religious roots.
There is no god in taoism or buddhism. Therefore – no conflict for the atheist. In fact, the vegetarian aspect is very healthy and incorporates the non-violence aspect from these religions. To learn martial arts without that component, is not wise.
David Johnson:
I know Jesus is real because He lives inside me. Prove ME wrong.
@Proof: I would love to prove it to you. The problem is you'd die. We'd have to cut you open. Plus it's very rude of you to keep another person inside you. On a serious note though, the Jesus story predates Christianity and Judaism, so there's nothing that needs to be proven past that.
proof:
Congrats! when is the due date.
What do you mean by "the Jesus story"? Are you asserting that Jesus did not live? Check out the debate between Dawkins and Lennox where Lennox gets Dawkins to retract his position that there was no historical Jesus. Dawkins is a liar as are all the big name athiests writing books and giving interviews. Any one can do the searching for themselves and find the lies. Unfortunately, most people don't.
All religion is wrong. All gods are false.
You can howl at the moon, worship a snail. Doesn't matter.
Just don't hurt anyone. Just stop trying to make people conform to your values.
Religious people are so deluded.
Cheers!
In Hinduism, Yoga is used to experience the unification with Brahman, so the "religion" is experienced and not just talked about or given a promise about an afterlife. As this is experienced in one's own lifetime through practice, there is no question of blind belief or delusion.
David. If all religions are all delusional, why have so many worshiped for so long in so many places. Peace
True all religion is wrong and all gods are wrong,cause there is only one true living god Who died and rose again and who is returning soon his name is JESUS CHRIST THE SAVIOR.Not hurting anybody will not bring salvation which is in the blood of Jesus Christ who redeemed us from our sins.
"which is in the blood of Jesus Christ"
Good for you. I don't like drinking blood.
@Anglican
Why do so many still believe? Because of hundreds of years of peer/societal pressure and the then power structure. Religion is a good tool for controlling people, so monarchs and governments clung to it. Now religion is being seen for the scam it is, and if it weren't for "accidents of birth" religion would be on a decline. Not to mention that the crazies in the middle east have rediscovered it as a means of control and are using it to its fullest to achieve their political aims – which causes a religious backlash in other countries/areas. If religion is so wonderful, and christianity the one true religion, why does almost no one convert?
@Anglican
You said: "If all religions are all delusional, why have so many worshiped for so long in so many places."
You have hit upon one of my most compelling reasons for deciding that all gods are false.
There are so many versions of god(s). Some, not even human (The elephant-faced god – Ganesha etc.). Each religion, each denomination of each religion, defines god's wants differently. All of these religions cannot be right. But they can all be wrong. Why would the true god(s) leave room for confusion?
Love and Prayers!
". Why would the true god(s) leave room for confusion?"
That's an Abrahamic perspective. Hindus don't get confused by the forms of God, infact every person can worship God in their way, or believe the final state is nothingness. We are part of Brahman, the supreme being and the Universe is one. It's a formless state that's infinite (all inclusive). Our goal is to recognize that and merge into Brahman to achieve Moksha through Yoga.
Hindus is all encompassing and including all schools of philosophy from the Atheistic (nothing exists) to dualism, to advaita which is like unification (we are all a subset of the whole and part and parcel of Brahman).
Well said!
Lets not forget that the kings and dictators ruled by "Divine rite" that is why the existence of a majic man in the sky was brain washed into people. No divine person, no divine rite!
David Johnson, you've got a hefty contradiction in your post. Maybe you should try to practice what you preach!
This is an assertion of relativism, and as such, is an article of faith as much as any religion. If no one has a right to tell others to conform to their values, then neither do you.
While I believe certain yoga practices do stray too far from the spiritual side of yoga; meditation within a , I do think that an 'argument' or 'fight' to make sure that people always associate it with the Hindu religion is against Hindu belief practices. The argument or fight sounds much more Western than anything. Yoga is a mind/body practice. When you practice using your mind and body together, you gain a deeper understanding of yourself and your strengths and weaknesses. It is powerful and peaceful at the same time. If you choose to practice solely for physical benefits, you will gain physical benefits. You get out of it what you put into it. That should not be just a Hindu practice but a human practice.
Nothing wrong with people doing yoga, nothing wrong with people chanting bible verses while practicing yoga, everything wrong if you are claiming that it is not part of India's spiritual traditions.
Yoga primarily developed to improve health and meditation capabilities, hopefully to provide a clearer head and body to pray. Hindus use it to pray to the supreme eternal force, no issues if Christians use it pray about Jesus. But the practice originated in India many thousands of years ago, to add depth to spirituality.
It is wrong for you to claim today that yoga is not part of India's spiritual history.
Non-white non-Christian people speaking up for themselves and standing up to Western racism and bigotry is always right.
Yoga as we know it today as a set of physical exercises is called "Hatha Yoga" in India. It is actually a very small part of the bigger development of a soul stated in Patanjali's Yoga Sutra. The inner meditative part is the yoga most Indians know under various terms as Raja Yoga or Kriya Yoga. To enable learning of the meditative parts, it is essential to have a body which is healthy. Hatha Yoga has taken over 50 years to capture the attention of the western world. I suspect the meditative part will take at least another 50 years. While it is true that you do not have to be Hindu to enjoy the fruits of this practice, it is the awareness of this being the first steps to a greater goal that the Indian group is trying to promote. If someone can open new doors by merging Hatha Yoga with other religious principles I am sure even Patanjali would be delighted.
Lol, like non-white people are any better? I've never met a white person who wouldn't date an Indian person, an Asian person, etc. Now go and ask an Indian person if he or she would date a white person. Go ahead. I'll wait.
I just like to be anonymous; don't want to add more fuel to the fire that's all. There were few comments that I spiked my interest add some points.
LP–> this discussion is not about dating, it's about Yoga. And, I don't think American women are into Indian men – let's say, I have had some racial differences (in Chicago).. lol.. Sorry to make light of it.
Anyhoo, moving forward, I disagree with Gaurab (just on this point). I think it is a big thing being called a Hindu. I am proud of that. I consider Hinduism has deep roots in Karma, The cycle of Life and Death, and having respect for all religions. Feel free to disagree; those are things that I have been brought up with. It's NOT related to covering women up or any stuff like that.
Now coming to the topic on hand, Yoga. As I have been told, it is the union of mind and body. You want to call it otherwise, so be it. Everyone is open to have his or her own beliefs. If the West wants to practice it; great, if the East wants to practice it; great. I don't have any issues. My concern is with these religious fanatics. For just a bit of limelight, don't spoil something good. Yoga is for harmony not anything else. I agree it originated in India (please don't dispute that), but, if you want to apply it in your life, apply it as you want. Someone commented about Martial Arts, it is the same with Yoga. It may have been originated in some part of the world, and now being practiced in US in its modified form, but, please (as we are taught) give credit to the ones who pioneered it.
P.S. Please don’t stereotype Hindus. Every religion has both fanatics and liberals. And, CNN and Ms. Shah, can we please preach harmony rather than creating differences.
What a silly argument. Who cares where it started? Yoga is Yoga.
Ofcourse, if there is anything good from India or Hinduism, it's immediately who cares where it came from. But, if it's something negative or can be used to deride Indians or Hindus then it's immediately jumped upon. This started in the West from the 19th century colonial period, where they was an impulse to show the superiority of the European race, so naturally all Non-Western achievements have to be dismissed.
If it is not a big deal to you where it comes from then it should be no skin off your nose to acknowledge where it does come from – Hinduism.
The t_itle says: "Fight emerges over yoga's religious roots"
This is yet another proof, that Christopher Hitchens is correct: "Religion poisons everything"
Cheers!
Yoga predates Christianity by millenia as does (vedic) hindu theism. It is so old and so refined, Hindu wisdom makes Judeo/Christian thoughts seem pedestrian and juvenile. It cannot be proven of course, but those that say Jesus traveled to India
to learn (yogic) wisdom would at least be right in that he chose the most complex and developed theology in the world at the time.
It's the same way with Kaballah and how mainstream it has become but it really isn't Kaballah without the Jewish aspects. It's just marketing and that's all American yoga is.
I see no religious overtones to my yoga workout. As a militant atheist, I would be very vocal if some sort of religion was incorporated in my yoga.
Darlene is an example of ignorance at its best.
@Darlene: Who cares where it came from? I'm sorry, but that is very insulting. I'm just a white woman from Iowa. Christian churches abound. I've read the Bible. I've read the Bhagavad Gita (sp?)- IMO, I find the Gita resonate with me far more than the Bible ever could. Yoga has it's roots in Hindusim, the two are intertwined. It DOES matter to millions of people. Your casual disregard for this fact compelled me to respond... Please reconsider your words.
Namaste
As an atheist, I see nothing wrong with meditation or vegetarianism that are the 'religious' components of yoga. Similarly, martial arts also have these elements – but are discarded by many.
I agree with you totally Darlene. Don't let these self rigteous idiots convince you that YOUR yoga MUST contain some kind of Hindu or other religious overtones.
I do yoga for the health benefits it provides. It is peaceful, increases my strength, balance, focus, and flexibility. I do it for the health aspects ONLY and neither want not seek any religious aspect. I care nothing for its origins while at the same time I can respect that someone else invented the practice and I appreciate them for that. It could have been an atheist who invented yoga for all I care. As a Christian I would continue to do it nontheless.
First step in being a successful CULTURAL THIEF, is to deny the origination/ownership of others cultural practices. We've seen your kind in action way too often to not know your MO
As white people, it is simply our god given right to take and make superficial everything that we wish. I think yoga should be made illegal to practice anywhere but LA fitness.
You can believe whatever you want. If that works for you, fine. Live and let live.
many people here are unacquainted with the usage of sarcasm.
Aerobics, pilates, and plenty of other types of exercise were invented in the US by people who were probably Christian, so should we know demand that if you want to watch a Suzanne Somers video you MUST convert to Christianity and start eating steak? French (or possibly German) Christians invented the bicycle, so should bicycle ownership be limited to Christians alone? That would be inconvenient to Indian Hindus, since the bicycle is awfully popular over there.
I think everyone knows that yoga originated in India. Some of us ignorant Westerners are even aware that not all Indians practice Hinduism or even speak Hindu, any more than all Americans are Christian (do Indians know that, hmm?). For those who choose to practice yoga in the traditional way (converting to Hinduism, eating a strict vegetarian diet, etc), that's their right and they have absolute freedom to do so. For those who just want a great full-body workout that improves balance, concentration, endurance, flexibility, muscle strength, and helps prevent injury especially as we age, why can't strict Hindus just let people appreciate the excellent form of exercise that yoga is?
i think some people want to know what it is they're doing when participating in yoga. like, if it's a religious experience, they want to know.
Unfortunately, yoga is not "yoga".
Where there is a profit to be made, anything may be distorted, adapted or modified for greater profit.
Yoga, in Sanskrit, means unity of body and spirit.
In the simplest terms, Yoga is a combination of three things.
1. Physical exercise. Stretching, bending and flexing the body using a series of carefully planned and executed movements.
2. Breath control. Coordinating breathing with movement through conscious thought.
3. Mental discipline. Calm the mind and reduce stress. Concentrate on the moment and eliminate trivial and troublesome thoughts.
Yoga is not Pilates or Aerobics. Classical Yoga has nothing to do with any current or past exercise fad. If Yoga is combined with any other physical activity it is no longer Classical Yoga, and most of the benefits are lost.
Many people associate yoga with religion, and are put off by it. Yoga is not a religion or a system of beliefs. Yoga is not spiritual, except for the benefits to your own spirit through mental discipline and peace of mind.
Yoga is primarily a universal philosophy. It can apply to and benefit anyone, regardless of age, occupation or religion.
If I say 'McDonald is McDonald and McDonald is a European brand for its french connection"... I am being either Dumb or Ignorant of the fact. By adding who cares... I am sure being a brat stereotype "american" who dont know where is China and what Globalization mean. Only thing I know is Sarah Palin sounds so real and powerful presidential material and Kim K is my most favorite show!
@ JESUS: I see no religious overtones to my yoga workout. As a militant atheist, I would be very vocal if some sort of religion was incorporated in my yoga.
Not sure why a militant atheist even need Yoga.!?..unless you're done being used in war and now developed sort of mental issues!