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The church of porn and football
February 1st, 2011
08:00 AM ET

The church of porn and football

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Nevada pastor Craig Gross counts professional quarterbacks among his friends. The same goes for porn stars and child porn convicts.

And he’s relying on friends from both camps in preparing for Sunday, when Gross will use the Super Bowl as a way to get churches around the country talking about pornography, a subject he calls “the elephant in the pew.”

He is dubbing the effort National Porn Sunday. Gross is the founder of XXXChurch, a Christian group that he says helps people battling pornography addictions.

The Quarterback

Gross recruited NFL players to join the effort, taping a video that he says will be shown at over 300 plus participating churches.

Matt Hasselbeck, who led the Seattle Seahawks to the Super Bowl in 2006, is one of the video’s stars.

Seattle Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck

Although he said he has never had a pornography addiction, Hasselbeck signed up for the free XXXchurch tracking software called X3watch.

“If I go to a site that’s questionable, a teammate gets an email and my wife gets an email,” Hasselbeck told CNN. “I thought about adding my mom too but decided against that,”

“It just keeps you accountable,” he said. “You know there’s a short term consequence to anything you do.”

He says the software added a layer of trust to his relationship with his wife.

“My email password is known to my wife, my voice mail password is known to her,” he said. “I’m still a guy married to a girl. In this country what you read, what you watch, and how you interact with other women can cause insecurity with your spouse.”

Gross says his campaign is about personal responsibility.

Craig Gross the founder of XXXChurch.com

“If the church stopped consuming [porn], we would put a huge dent in it,” he said, referring to individual churchgoers.

The 35-year-old Gross, an ordained pastor, founded XXXchurch in the early 2000s after hearing stories from teens in his youth group getting involved with pornography. Today he runs the site full time from Las Vegas, Nevada.

“I never had this crazy run in with porn,” says Gross, who came of age in a time of 56k modems, when the internet was just catching on.

“I could count the amount times I encountered it,” he said. “You used to have to work hard to find it. Now you have to work hard to avoid it.”

For Gross, the Bible is clear on the issue of pornography. He says it falls into the category of a sexual sin, pointing to Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, in which he tells the church to “run away from sexual sins.”

With XXXChurch, Gross has probably done more to reach out to the porn community than any other pastor in the country. Several years ago he began attending porn conventions and it was there he met legendary porn star Ron Jeremy.

The Porn Star

“It’s exactly what Jesus would do if you think about it,” Jeremy told CNN. “He went right to where they were drinking and gambling and said, ‘folks this is no good.’”

Porn Star Ron Jeremy

“[Gross] didn’t go just to a church and preach against porn, he goes right to the porn conventions,” Jeremy said. “He gets booths and hands out Bibles to all the porn stars that say, ‘Jesus loves porn stars.’ No one else does that.”

Jeremy and Gross became fast friends and started touring the country, debating porn on college campuses in front of big crowds.

Jeremy, who has starred in more than 200 adult films, said there is no problem with pornography when it is consumed recreationally and responsibly. He says couples tell him all the time they use pornography to spice up their relationships.

“If you’re a really religious Christian and you follow the letter of the law with the bible, you should not watch porn - I agree with Craig on that one,” he said. “I like what Craig does. He tries to keep people out who don’t belong in porn and don’t belong watching porn. It’s not healthy for them - maybe they’re getting addicted to it.”

Jeremy says porn is a lot like alcohol - what works for some doesn’t work for all. “I don’t want people to get addicted, either,” Jeremy said.

The child porn convict

When FBI agents showed up with guns on his lawn one day, Bill Hartman Jr. knew exactly why they were there. “My addiction took me to a place of no return,” Hartman said.

Pornography began for Hartman as an escape and ended with a 63-month sentence in a federal prison for child pornography.

“You think you’re going down a road and never think you’re going to make that last turn and yet you do because you have no control over it,” Hartman said. “You lose your sense of everything.”

Bill Hartman Jr. in a photo posted on the Ohio Attorney General

Hartman was married, working as a corrections officer and regularly attending a Seventh Day Adventist church, but Hartman says he was living a double life.

He says his first exposure to child porn came via email. “A normal person would have seen it and said this is wrong,” he said.

He tried to break his addiction on his own. “I was praying to God, ‘You’ve got to help me,’” Hartman said. “I thought he wasn’t listening. The FBI showing up was the answer to prayer.”

Hartman was convicted of possession of child pornography and receipt and distribution.

While he was awaiting trail he met Gross. XXXchurch staff members were at Hartman’s sentencing and went with him when he surrendered at the federal prison in Massachusetts.

He believes a judge drastically reduced his sentence because he quickly admitted guilt and began working with XXXchurch.

Hartman is four months out of prison, divorced, and a registered sex offender. He hopes his story will help others from making the mistakes he did.

“I think the problem with pornography in general is anyone who is viewing it is using it as a block to deal with people,” he said. “I used it to block my feelings or communications with my wife. I don’t even think it’s OK for the single guy. It’s a roadblock in your life. I don’t think there’s any good that can come out of it.”

Prevention

Jeremy argues that it’s unfair to indict the entire porn industry because of someone involved in child porn.

From a medical health standpoint, a possible addiction to pornography and getting involved with child pornography is apples and oranges according to psychiatrists.

Currently there is not even a diagnostic standard for pornography addiction according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which mental health professionals turn to when treating patients.

An overuse of pornography is sometimes treated as a compulsive behavior or viewed as a symptom of a broader issue. The DSM is published by the American Psychiatric Association and is currently in its 4th edition. There is some speculation among clinicians that pornography addiction could be included in the 5th edition under a sexual addiction umbrella.

Gross said he knows not everyone who consumes pornography will graduate to child porn but said that there’s often other kinds of collateral damage.

“I don’t believe this is going to be helpful in your relationship,” he said. “I’ve seen more fallout because of this. When it’s done secret, eventually you don’t cover up your tracks. You’re going to get found out and women automatically go to, ‘what’s wrong with me.’”

“Even if it’s a small percentage, it’s still millions of people who are struggling with this,” he said.

Gross hopes that churches will put the issue out in the open.

“Just talking about this once isn’t going to solve your porn problem,” he said. “A lot of churches feel like they’re not equipped to handle it.”

“When the wife confronts the husbands… then you’ve got the church dealing with the fall out,” he continued. “A big part of what (Sunday) is about is prevention. Let’s talk about this ahead of time.”

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church • United States

soundoff (299 Responses)
  1. Dr. Corndog

    Lots of loud, angry people on here (emo kid). Why do online news articles always bring out the nutters?

    February 1, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
    • some emo kid

      Heck, I thought my reply to the troll was fairly reasonable: if you don't know why not to molest kids, you are a danger to them and should die soon. Many of the commenters here would benefit from early death, or at least a punch in the mouth.

      February 1, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Cris

      I think you really need the punch in the mouth emo.

      February 1, 2011 at 5:37 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Don't worry, Emo. I like you.

      February 1, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • some emo kid

      Not likely I'll get one from a girly-man like you, Cris.

      February 2, 2011 at 8:27 am |
  2. Third Option Men

    Great article! We just started a thread on our Facebook page to discuss it further: http://ow.ly/3OigF

    February 1, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
  3. Your Mom

    They should have one of these e-mail alerts for if you go to church. Then, one of your friends could rush over and remind you that you don't believe in the Tooth Fairy anymore, and your mom could ready a good glare for you when you got home.

    February 1, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • some emo kid

      They should have one that emails all your friends if you look up an 80s sitcom or a 90s boy band.

      February 1, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I don't know if this fits in with the 80s boy band thing, but there really ought to be mullet interventions.

      February 1, 2011 at 9:50 pm |
  4. Christopher

    Okay all. Say there aren't any gods and there is no God. Say the bible is fantasy, and that everyone here against po-rn is repressed. For those who say those things, tell me why you haven't defended the kiddie po-rn addict?

    February 1, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • some emo kid

      "tell me why you haven't defended the kiddie po-rn addict?" God, what a vile thing to say to people! You need to slash your wrists as fast as possible, my friend. Remember, down the road, not across the street.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • Christopher

      some emo kid: Look like you specialize in saying vile things yourself. None of the arguments used by pro-po-rn folks are being applied to the rest of the story. I'm looking for consistency among the pro crowd. For that I should commit suicide? I see.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
    • NL

      Kids are being molested in kiddy po rn. Isn't mainstream po rn dealing with people of legal age?

      February 1, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
    • some emo kid

      Oh, you want a serious answer? That was it; you see no reason to prevent kiddy p0 rn unless some invisible sky daddy is against it? Then by all means stick your hand in the garbage disposal! Troll.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Christopher

      some emo kid: I never said I saw no reason. I was saying that the pro crowd never presented a reason. Also, many things have traditionally been "wrong" because the sky daddy said so. That was at least until folks stopped listening to the sky daddy. So now that we have rejected all that the sky daddy says, what happens when our "morality" shifts so that kiddie po-rn abusers ARE defended? Either the sky daddy sets the morality, and we earthlings follow, OR we earthlings set the morality, which we can then change as we see fit.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • some emo kid

      stfu troll

      February 1, 2011 at 1:57 pm |
    • Christopher

      Yep, you got me there! I will stop now though before this descends to "YOUR MOM!" level. Thanks for the rational, well reasoned and open debate this afternoon.

      February 1, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
    • Luke

      Because we are able to understand morals and what is right and wrong without the aid of your d!ckbag god.

      February 1, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • some emo kid

      "before this descends to "YOUR MOM!" level." You STARTED by implying atheist=pedo.You can't GO any lower. Why are you still even alive?

      February 1, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
    • Buster Bloodvessel

      Harming children is wrong. It's wrong if there's a god, it's wrong if there ain't one. Can you not tell right from wrong without a book? Suppose god told you to take your son Isaac up on a hill and make kiddy p0r n with him; would you do it? Hmmm?

      February 1, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • Homer

      "Either the sky daddy sets the morality, and we earthlings follow, OR we earthlings set the morality, which we can then change as we see fit."

      Christopher, the problem with that thinking is simply this - assuming the sky daddy exists, who will decide what he wants? And before you quote some verse from the bible, remember that every religion will have a claim to the answer. In fact, two people of the same religion will give two different answers. How do we earthlings resolve that problem?

      February 1, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • Buster Bloodvessel

      Homer, I think what he was fumbling around trying to say was that if you don't base your morality on sky daddy and his army of flying babies, what DO you base it on? Then he chose the worst possible example and went down the FAIL chute. If he had said, oh, some countries behead adulterers, and suppose we did that, or what if we had to cops shoot to kill on guys who drag their pants too low? Well, we can all agree that adultery is messy but not fatal, and pants on the ground are dumb but not a crime, and we can all agree what to do with pedos, so why even bring God into it?

      February 1, 2011 at 3:31 pm |
    • Howie

      I'm going to play right into Christopher's hands here, but the point has to be made. Let's get as objective as possible here. I will start by saying that as a human, and as a parent, I am horrified by the very concept of kiddie p o r n. However, why is it wrong? I think we can all agree that at least part of the answer (and perhaps all of it depending on your viewpoint) is the emotional harm it causes. We have all seen the horror stories of adults who were childhood victims and had their lives ruined by the experience, the memories, the shame. Well, what if we lived in a society that attached zero stigma to $ex acts? What if our children were normalized to $ex in infancy? What if it were the societal norm for children to have these type of relationships with adults? In such a society, these acts would be the norm, not the trespasses of predators. I don't see how any emotional damage could be done if these things were considered normal. So, in that society, is kiddie p o r n wrong? Look at ancient Greece – young boys with adult men was the norm, and at puberty these relationships would end and the young men would go on to live normal lives. Clearly the records are sketchy, but I have never heard any evidence of large sectors of Greek youth having the emotional issues attributed to child victims today. The Greek culture of the time gave rise to science and philosophy, so it seems they were doing something right. My point is that all morality is related to the societal norms of the time. This is the main problem in trying to derive morality from religious texts – the morals represented were the norms of a culture that existed 2000 years ago. Things have changed.

      February 1, 2011 at 3:46 pm |
    • some emo kid

      Howie, I'd go out on a limb and say that it probably wasn't very healthy for the Greeks to be molested as children, and that if the whole society got it up the poop chute, they would all share the same traumas as adults. Either way it reminds me of the old story about the little Greek boy who ran away from home because he didn't like the way he was being reared (but he came back because he couldn't bear to leave his brother's behind).

      February 1, 2011 at 4:12 pm |
    • Steve

      I am not seeing in the article where they are reaching for whether or not p-orn is ultimately right or wrong. I feel all perspectives offered in the article are saying "Hey, if you look at p-ornography, you may want to evaluate your status in regards to addiction. There seems to be a tipping point at which point you are abusing p-orn and for some people that point comes sooner than for others." There is not a right or wrong in that statement, only a reality check. The fact is, abuse of p-ornographic materials can lead to broken lives, but it is never too late to regain your footing.

      February 1, 2011 at 8:02 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Two words, sparky: Consenting adults.

      February 1, 2011 at 9:49 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @tallulah13

      You said: "Two words, sparky: Consenting adults."

      Shame! Sparky is my name for idiots!

      Cheers!

      February 2, 2011 at 7:46 am |
    • Rod

      @howie
      My disclaimer- I am not in anyway attempting to justify child p0rn or $exualization of children, I find it repulsive. However I would like to make a couple of points.
      1 The age of consent (in this case 18) is completely arbitrary. Humans enter puberty many years earlier and can be said to be $exually mature, but we as a society have determined that they are not emotionally mature until years later. I think (opinion only, since I have not studied it in depth) the damage done to children that have been $exually exposed comes more from the fact that it is not socially accepted. Repeat- ped0philia is still repulsive to me, but that comes with the realization that it's culturally defined.
      2-Some cultures (Trobriand islanders) if I recall from my anthropology course, $exually stimulate (ma$terbate) their infants as a way of pacifying them.
      All of this is to say that it may be an uninformed comment (opinion) from @some emo kid that the ancient Greeks suffered any harm from early $exualization.
      We have decided as a culture that people under the age of 18 should be "protected" from this. Arbitrariness aside, that's what we should do. The day they turn 18 they become a consenting adult. That's the difference.

      February 5, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
  5. Sanitaryum

    This IS the proverbial elephant in the pew and few churches know how to address it. Sanitaryum appreciates a Christian standing up in an extremely uncomfortable battle, wielding an offensive weapon, and exercising strategy without compromise despite the status quo. "Sanitaryum" is a clean humor site that supports, and advocates for, sanitary Internet content. Go Pastor Craig!

    February 1, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
    • some emo kid

      We all love clean jokes. Just don't try to shut down places that aren't family-friendly and you'll be fine.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
  6. Charlie K

    99% of the time, p0rn0graphy is harmless. If it tears apart your marriage then you've got some other major problems going on. Everyone wants to blame something or someone for thier own weaknesses, their own failures. Its the American way. This guy is doing what Christians do best – judging people (even though he says he's not) and annoying them by not going away and minding his own business.

    February 1, 2011 at 1:05 pm |
    • Michael

      It's when it becomes an addiction that it becomes a problem. The same way a substance addiction or gambling addiction will surely wreck a marriage so will p0rn addiction. Point taken about always placing the blame elsewhere, and I agree it's up to the consumer to exercise good judgement. I think for an addictive personality though, it can be a big problem. It's generally free and you don't even need to leave your house to get it, so it can quickly become a dominating part of one's life.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:16 pm |
    • NL

      Couldn't a 'God addiction' be just as destructive in one's life and just as easily wreck one's marriage?

      February 1, 2011 at 1:32 pm |
    • Flora

      NL:

      I think what you're trying to talk about is called "zealotry" and to answer your question, I have never met a safe, sane zealot.

      February 1, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
    • Magic

      Flora,

      Ah, but CatholicMom said that the Church councils said that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist or John of Patmos said that Jesus said, "‘But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.’" - Rev. 3:16

      So I guess being a zealot is the only way to go...

      February 1, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • NL

      Flora-
      So, what separates a person who can handle their religion from a zealot? Where's the line that tells you that your beliefs are hurting yourself and your family? When you spend all the money you should be saving for retirement on your t-ithe? When you cannot bring yourself to accept who your child is because of a religious belief? When you threaten people with hell?

      In reference to the topic of this discussion, religious differences can drive a wedge into a marriage just as easily as po rn can, right? Yet how many pastors will council the 'saved' to drop their religious conviction in order to save their marriage?

      February 1, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • NL

      Tom C-
      Travel day for me today so I will have to just briefly touch on a few things for now.
      "And vice versa, why wouldn't a non believers judgment be clouded by their disdain for God? See, it works both ways."

      I have no 'disdain' for God as a person, I don't think he exists after all, but I do find the character a rather odd choice for a 'loving' deity. Yet, if proof of God appeared today I'd change my idea that he doesn't exist. It's always the lack of evidence that holds back my belief in God, not my wish that he not exist just because he is just too terrible.

      "I would agree with your song lyrics. The only difference is, according to scripture, Jesus didn't do anything wrong. He was sinless, therefore, the last half of that melody is not in the scope of this conversation."

      The bible is how you see Jesus, and you can't see an outsider's opinion of, say, how Jesus bears little resemblance to Christ, so it all fits.

      Talk to you later, or tomorrow if the snow causes major delays.
      TTFN

      February 2, 2011 at 9:44 am |
  7. phoenixriser

    we need natural original man and woman from the beginning. this is nothing but a hybrid humanoid species and offshoot. the chuches today are arcade centers.selah

    February 1, 2011 at 1:00 pm |
    • Howie

      ???? Universal translator is just not getting this one.

      February 1, 2011 at 3:32 pm |
  8. vonspoo

    i'm glad to see people trying to meet in the middle about such a hot button issue.

    personally, i find nothing wrong with people partaking of the media in moderation. let's face it. married luvin can get old and stale after a while. pizza is AWESOME but eating pizza 3 or 4 times a week for 15, 30, 40, 60 years? even if you switch up the toppings, you're still going to get a little tired of it. anything you can do to keep enjoying pizza with the one you love is a good thing.

    February 1, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
  9. UFC1

    @David Johnson.. Mr. Johnson, you're such a typical idiotic aetheist with no faith in anything but your weed and hedonistic lifestyle. Aetheists are the worst type of human beings in existence-can't handle any notion of punishment for living their evil lifestyles. Can't take ANY judgement or criticism for fear of answering to someone or something of a higher understanding. MORON! Ahhh, what a world it would be if we could get rid of aetheists!!

    February 1, 2011 at 12:50 pm |
    • Todd

      It would be a lot better world if we could get rid of retards like you who judge others when you ahve absolutely no evidence that any kind of God exists, or even if one does exist, what that God believes is moral or immoral. . The only MORONS I see here are YOU and teh otehr retard religious MORONS who feel they have the right to judge people because they dont believe in what you believe in. Question: what if God does not exist, or what if the God that does exist is Bhudah, Lord Ganeesh, or flying monkey squirrel, what are you going to do then???

      February 1, 2011 at 1:01 pm |
    • some emo kid

      Wow, Christ has really saved you and come into your life, hasn't he? Wretched nasty parasite. Someone ought to shove that crazy book down your horrible gullet.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
    • NL

      Funny, but isn't the UFC just as much about 'pounding' somebody for money and somebody else's enjoyment as po rn is?

      February 1, 2011 at 1:10 pm |
    • Christopher

      Todd: Wow, your comments against UFC1 pretty judgmental.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:13 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @UFC1

      OUCH!

      Mathew 5:39 – If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

      I have been married to the same woman for 31 years. I have never been arrested or accused of any crime. I give to my local food bank. I have a job and drink moderately. I play cards with a gay couple and 2 other straight guys on Fridays. I find the gays warm and funny. I am pro-choice. I am for gay rights.

      I am against banning p_ornography, because it is protected by the 1st Amendment.

      I am pleased with my lifestyle. I am moral, without the aid of a god.

      Do you have any proof that there is god?

      Love and Prayers!

      February 1, 2011 at 1:14 pm |
    • Know What

      UFC,

      Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are both atheist/agnostic; they are the biggest philanthropists in the history of mankind.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:19 pm |
    • claybigsby

      "typical idiotic aetheist with no faith in anything but your weed and hedonistic lifestyle."

      First, judging by the terrible grammar and spelling in your posts, I would assume you are no more than 13 years old.

      But your comment is funny....considering god supposedly gave mankind "every seed bearing herb"....last time i checked, weed was a seed bearing herb. go reread your bible.

      "Aetheists are the worst type of human beings in existence"

      Again, spelling is not your strong suit, but Atheists are no worse than your catholic priests who molest children. In fact, I would rather be an atheist who is morally correct than a fake a$$ preacher who claims morality yet has $e.x with kids in the a$$.

      "Can't take ANY judgement or criticism for fear of answering to someone or something of a higher understanding. "

      So because you claim you have a "higher understanding", that means you can judge people? And who died and made you god?

      People like you give christians a terrible name.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • NL

      claybigsby-
      "every seed bearing herb"....last time i checked, weed was a seed bearing herb. go reread your bible.

      Need we speculate what variety of burning bush so 'inspired' Moses?

      February 1, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • Bob

      > Ahhh, what a world it would be if we could get rid of aetheists!!

      Probably like the religious theocracies in the middle east. Don't like that answer do ya? 😛

      February 1, 2011 at 2:10 pm |
    • NL

      Bob-
      If they get rid of all atheists and people of other faiths then they would have to find enemies amongst themselves to fill the vacuum. They actually need us to keep them safe from the inquisitions, witch hunts, and heresy trials they would find necessary to invent in our absence.

      February 1, 2011 at 5:28 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Wow. Nice judgment piece. I guess working a full-time job, paying my bills and taxes, generally being a responsible adult and enjoying the odd glass of wine is evil. EVIL!

      February 1, 2011 at 9:45 pm |
    • CW

      @ UFC1

      Hey...buddy I'm with you....Atheist are non-'believers...God has their punishment waiting....just remember that. Don't let their ridi-'cule get to you b/c that is what they are after. They can't stand the fact that we and all True Christians have Faith...sucha a FAITH that can withstand all their little insults and belit-'tling. I personally feel sorry for them b/c they're putting their faith in their's and man's thinking which will get them a ticket to you know where if they don't change.

      @ Todd,

      Call us what you want.....won't hurt me or any other christian.

      @ know what,

      You know why Bill G. and Warren B. are giving away their money?....I know someone who has personally worked for them dealt with them on a personal level and these men think that if they "GIVE" their money to someone who needs it that if there is a God he will look upon their deeds and give them a first class ticket to Heaven. What they don't understand is you don't get to heaven by your deeds alone...but by believing and living your life for God.

      February 2, 2011 at 10:49 am |
    • Rod

      UFC1
      Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute to the conversation, or are insults and personal attacks the best you can do?

      February 5, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
  10. Tim

    How about I do what I do and you do what you do. If what I do is hurting you in some way than come talking to me. Leave your religion out of it because religion doesn't make you moral, just feel that way.

    February 1, 2011 at 12:45 pm |
  11. Howie

    I'm pretty sure the bible doesn't actually say anything at all about $exual imagery, photographic or video. I'll conceed there may be an injunction against said imagery in paint or stone, although it seems unlikely when you look at the works of great painters and sculptors throughout history – most of whom were extremely devout. I mean, I think the bible is a bunch of garbage anyway, but if you are going to try and live by a literal interpretation, there just can't possibly be anything in there about p o r n.

    February 1, 2011 at 12:40 pm |
    • Buster Bloodvessel

      The part about p0 rn is next to the part about potatoes.

      February 1, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
  12. CW

    Good Story...Yes p-'orn is BAD!!! If your a married person...why should one watch it? In addition if someone is watching it then its definetly a block in relationships....period!!!! We have to remember this isn't something that we do in public...this is the dir-'ty little secret that you don't want your family to know. Hence it is wrong...The Bible clearly notes the moral view of this. I do agree in reaching out to those in this indu-'stry and try to pull them out of it b/c it doesn't benefit anyone. I don't agree with Ron J's as-'ses-'sment of things though.

    February 1, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • Luke

      False, False, opinionated BS, more false statements and pure shame on your part. Try again.

      February 1, 2011 at 12:48 pm |
    • Todd

      You are an idiot. THe BIBLE also CLEARLY states that Slavery is ok and is morally fine. SO what you aer saying is you are okay with slavery. If the bible is your moral compass, you have to agree with everyrthing it says about morality, including promoting slavery, you dont get to pick and choose which parts of teh bible you agree with. Retard.

      February 1, 2011 at 12:56 pm |
    • D-Bo

      @ Todd,

      Slavery, as spoken about in the bible, equates to indentured servants for a fixed period of time, typically three to seven years, in exchange for their transportation, food, clothing, lodging and other necessities during the term of their indenture. Colossians 4:1 says, "Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven." (also see Ephesians 6:9, which urges masters to be good to their slaves, or more applicable to today, employees). Stop taking 1 verse out of context while trying to prove your point. It makes you look ill-versed in the Bible, which judging by your comments, you are. The whole message of the Bible is one of love and respect. Do you also judge the entire plot of a movie by 1 sentence that someone utters (and that you take out of context or don’t know the history behind it)? Seems like you do. Wouldn’t that make you the idiot? Indeed it would.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • BR

      Bathroom activities aren't done in public either...hence they are wrong too? Women don't normally color their heir or take care of femenine issues in public either. Wrong? Seriously flawed logic, but that's what you get when you've got the god addiction. Let's think about all of the things that your bible condones. Slavery has already been mentioned, patricide, filicide, infanticide, genocide....and that's just hte "...cide" category. No, you do not get to pretend that the OT doesn't exist. Without the OT you don't have the NT. So was god wrong? By your books words, he is responsible for nearly all of the evil commited throughout the testaments, so tell us again how it's such a great guide.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Homer

      @D-Bo: "Slavery, as spoken about in the bible, equates to indentured servants for a fixed period of time, typically three to seven years, in exchange for their transportation, food, clothing, lodging and other necessities during the term of their indenture."

      And how is this different from slavery as we understand the term? Because it's temporary? Your God was pretty clear when he said he wouldn't tolerate the worship of idols. So why didn't he come out and say he wouldn't tolerate slavery? Both practices existed at the time, and yet somehow God felt that praying to a golden calf was a far bigger atrocity than owning slaves (whether for seven years or not).

      February 1, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • D-Bo

      Hey BR,

      Glad you asked. I'm so happy that you don't just assume things like Todd and that you're a brilliant biblical scholar who went out of his way to comment on a belief blog site. And it's nice to know that you know so much about the history of Israel and the Jews. Since you clearly don't, maybe this will help:

      http://www.rzim.org/justthinkingfv/tabid/602/articleid/10624/cbmoduleid/1694/default.aspx

      February 1, 2011 at 3:14 pm |
    • BR

      D-Bo. I'm always happy to read something that might change my opinion of religion, however this doesn't even come close.

      You know what I see over and over? Phrases like, “Utter destruction” didn’t really mean utter destruction. “Driving out” didn’t really mean “wiping out”. Who says the Canaanite women were innocent? “They had the chance to acknowledge the one true god”. "The bible says that the Canaanites did all these horrible things" implying that they deserved it.

      God ordered warfare. Not defensive warfare, but “you’re on the land god said is ours” warfare. Sorry…no sale.

      February 1, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @D-BO

      Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property and are forced to work.

      A moral god would not permit slavery. The Christian God is vile.

      Old Testament:

      Exodus 21:20-21 and Exodus 21:26-27 regulates the beating of slaves, and states that the owner may not be punished if the slave survives for at least two days after the beating.

      Leviticus 19:20-22 gives instructions about the sacrifices that should be made if a slave owner has $ex with or r_apes an engaged female slave. The slave herself is punished with whipping, but no sacrifices or punishment are required if the slave is not engaged.

      In Leviticus 25:44-46 , the Israelites were allowed to buy slaves from other nations, and then hand them down as an inheritance.

      In Leviticus 25:39 , buying your brother as a slave is allowed.

      New Testament:

      In Luke 12:45-48 , the Parable of the Faithful Servant, Jesus discusses the punishment of slaves, and says that a slave may be punished for not doing something he wasn't instructed to do.

      In Ephesians 6:5-9 , Paul instructs the slaves to be obedient.

      Colossians 4:1 and 1 Timothy 6:1-3 also admonish slaves to obey their masters.
      In his Epistle to Philemon, Paul is allegedly returning a runaway slave to his owner.

      In Matthew 18:25 , people and their children are described as being sold into slavery.

      Many supporters of slavery, in the 19th century, justified their arguments with reference to Bible verses like those listed above. Had god forbade slavery, American slavery may never have happened.

      Again, a moral god, an omnibenevolent god, would have condemned slavery. It would have been a better commandment than "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". God or Jesus could have said, "You can't own each other."

      Christians always try to whitewash their god's evil deeds.

      Cheers!

      February 1, 2011 at 4:35 pm |
    • BR

      Thanks David...I tried to post the same things but I'm still stuck in "moderation" land.

      February 1, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
    • civiloutside

      Some interesting variations on the slavery theme. Now admittedly I'm not yet all the way through Leviticus, so there may be some things I haven't gotten to, but so far...

      The six year time limit applies to male Hebrews only.

      Apparently circu-mcision is required to be performed on foreign slaves (I.e. If you're bought by one of the lord's people, expect some gen-ital mutilation on top of everything else).

      Masters can give female slaves to male slaves as their wives. But if the male slave then reaches the end of his indenture and doesn't want to abandon his wife and children, he's required to accept lifelong slavery.

      February 2, 2011 at 8:27 am |
    • Rod

      Well I wouldn't want my mother to know that I watch p0rn, nor would I want my work colleagues to know. It is a form of $ex, so it is nobodies business except my own and my romantic partner's.
      I'm 54 years old and in my 3rd marriage. It is the first relationship where my wife and I enjoy p0rn together or alone. It is not a block to our relationship rather this is the most spiritual and emotionally intimate relationships either of us has ever had.
      It is also my wife's third marriage and she said she has had more 0rgasms in the first year of our relationship than she has had in her entire life before me. All I have to say is THANK GOD FOR P0RN!
      It would be nice if religious people who have a problem with it would not try to foist their own values on others.

      February 5, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
  13. shehzad

    You wonder why so many are turning away from churches, and Christianity, as it can't differentiate good from bad.

    February 1, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • some emo kid

      I'm no Christian, and apparently many posters here CAN'T differentiate without help, but I'd say 90% of the people attending 90% of the churches in, heck, say 90% of the world are good people. Don't judge Christians by a few loudmouths and nut jobs. There are people who use church as a social outlet or as a source of temporal power, but they all at least pay lip service to the idea of bringing themselves closer to God.

      February 1, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
  14. Robert

    Solution: print out the dirty pictures from online, give them to your wife and say "Do this for me." Problem solved.

    February 1, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • NL

      That would only really work fairly if the wife could ask the same of the guy and, considering how they judge 'talent' in male po rn stars, there are too few husbands out there who would be 'up' to the task. 😉

      February 1, 2011 at 12:47 pm |
    • some emo kid

      Rob, she'd just say "you aren't man enough."

      February 1, 2011 at 1:04 pm |
    • Bob

      > Rob, she'd just say "you aren't man enough."

      Point, set and match.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Homer

      Actually she would ask "Where am I going to find a midget and a zebra?"

      February 1, 2011 at 2:21 pm |
  15. Michael

    've actually been to one of these before. Anything that brings pleasure can be dangerously addictive, and things like this can tear families/marriages apart. Whether you're religious or not, it's a good message to a big problem. (Not so much with p0rn itself, but addiction to p0rn)

    February 1, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • NL

      "All things in moderation", right?

      Would it be unfair then to say that some people get a lot of pleasure out of religion and their 'relationships' with Christ? Would it also be unfair to say that, for some people, their 'addiction' to God is harmful to them in the same way you argue?

      February 1, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • Michael

      NL: It certainly can be as has been proven repeatedly throughout history.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
    • NL

      Michael-
      If religion can be dangerously addictive then what is a 'safe' amount of religion to have in one's life? A 'moderate', once a week habit, within the public venue of a church seems reasonable, but if you come from a family, or community where religious excess seems more the norm, then wouldn't total abstinence be more prudent? Becoming an atheist seems the safest way to avoid becoming a religious zealot, wouldn't you say?

      February 1, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      NL and David Johnson,

      All this talk about being lukewarm….are you certain that is what you want?

      Actually the Douay-Rheims Bible says…. ‘But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.’

      Why would Jesus say that He will begin to vomit thee out of His mouth? The next verse tells why: 'Because thou sayest: I am rich, and made wealthy, and have need of nothing: and knowest not, that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.'

      Jesus wishes to counsel you to buy from Him gold that has been tried by fire….so that you may be clothed in white garments, that is, made rich, so that the shame of your nakedness may not appear[pretending that you are rich when you really are wallowing in filth]; He has the eye salve by which to anoint your eyes so that you can see your wretchedness.

      Lukewarm is worse than cold or hot to Jesus….Lukewarm means you have heard the Truth but do not live by it. If you are cold…you have yet to hear the Truth and thus have not rejected it;….if you are hot…you have heard the Truth and take it to heart with eyes to see and ears to hear.

      February 1, 2011 at 4:47 pm |
    • NL

      CatholicMom-
      Lukewarm is the temperature of body fluids, including embryonic fluid. It's not surprising then that it's the temperature we aim for with baby bath water because 'hot' and 'cold' can be so destructive to the flesh. In our common use of these words one can either be hot tempered, or cold and calculating, neither of which is a very positive character trait, while being lukewarm is often described as being 'temperate' in nature, which is usually considered a very good thing. With all this in mind I'm not quite sure what John had in mind when he put these words in Jesus' mouth.

      February 1, 2011 at 11:08 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      NL,
      We are talking about love [not water or tempers]….choose hot, cold or lukewarm….with hot being ‘fully and completely’, cold being ‘empty hearted’, and lukewarm being self-serving…..take your pick.

      February 2, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • tallulah13

      CM, you say this: "Douay-Rheims Bible says"

      What do the other bibles (the infallible word of god with oddly different editing) have to say:?

      February 2, 2011 at 1:37 am |
    • CatholicMom

      tallulah 13,

      Other Bibles use the word spew, spue, and spit instead of vomit and a few do not even use any of those words but have translated them out.

      Since the Douay-Rheims Bible was translated by St. Jerome into English from the Latin Vulgate of the Bible at the end of the 4th century …it is the closest to the original Bible which was put together by the Catholic Church at the end of the 3rd century; that is why I prefer it.

      Also the old English is easy to understand….whereas newer versions have been translated to the point that some verses are not recognizable [to me] when compared to the Douay-Rheims Bible.

      February 2, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • Rod

      Yes you're right, anything that brings pleasure can be addictive. But this program is more of a blanket condemnation of p0rn more on the basis that it is believed to be sinful. I did not hear anything about accepting p0rn as an acceptable form of entertainment for mature adults that can keep it in balance.

      February 5, 2011 at 12:45 am |
  16. CURTIS

    What a bunch of crap. My girlfriend and I watch it seperately and together and neither one of us has a problem with it at all. These articles are pure crap. And so, incidentally, is the bible. A book written by men. They are stories.

    February 1, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • Jimbo

      So you're an exception. Big deal. That doesn't automatically make this article false.

      February 1, 2011 at 11:57 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Curtis,
      Maybe you have a problem with yourself or your girlfriend…is your s3x love or lust? Does your conscience say, ‘This is something that is sacred and only for a married man and woman…or does it tell you, ‘Do it because you now have the urge after watching p-orn?’ What happens if you don’t watch p-orn? Just curious why you ‘need’ it. Has it lead to child p-orn yet?

      February 1, 2011 at 11:58 am |
    • Howie

      @ catholic mom – you are as ignorant as you are offensive.

      February 1, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • Luke

      CatholicMom

      That was terrible, even for your usual standards. I think you owe someone an apology. S3xuality is not something to be ashamed of or keep hidden, dearest represed one.

      February 1, 2011 at 12:46 pm |
    • some emo kid

      Catholic Mom is the nastiest man in America.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:05 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @CatholicMom

      That child p_orn remark was below the belt. What would Jesus do?

      Also, the Catholic Church, is certainly in the news a lot for attacking children.

      Maybe people who live in glass houses shouldn't talk about crimes against children...

      Cheers!

      February 1, 2011 at 1:20 pm |
    • Bob

      @Catholic Mom, Thanks for proving my point earlier!

      This is the typical article for churchies.
      – Show famous people who are involved.
      – Tell them the bible says it's bad.
      – Show an atypical case that's designed to illustrate the point above.
      – Flawed conclusion based on not investigating the entire subject.

      This is too easy!

      February 1, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • Luke

      You know what CatholicMom – Go fark yourself. What a complete unatic you are. Here we have a guy that privately watching po_rn with his girlfriend and you attack him for a potential pedophile. There is absolutely no link between po_rn and child po_rn. And here we have an active member of the Catholic Church...a church that has routinely attacked defenseless children and covered up the crime...a DIRECT FARKING LINK....and you attack a person and make false accusations. You deserve ever FARK off coming to you. fark you^10. Fark you^1000. Hypocritical bag of d!cks.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Emo Kid, you are my hero.

      February 1, 2011 at 9:40 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      tallulah 13,

      Other Bibles use the word spew, spue, and spit instead of vomit and a few do not even use any of those words but have translated them out.

      Since the Douay-Rheims Bible was translated by St. Jerome into English from the Latin Vulgate at the end of the 4th century …it is the closest to the original Bible which was put together by the Catholic Church at the end of the 3rd century; that is why I prefer it. Also the old English is easy to understand….whereas newer versions have been translated to the point that some verses are not recognizable [to me] when compared to the Douay-Rheims Bible.

      February 2, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
    • FYI

      CatholicMom,

      "The Douay-Rheims currently on the market is also not the original, 1609 version. It is technically called the "Douay-Challoner" version because it is a revision of the Douay-Rheims done in the mid-eighteenth century by Bishop Richard Challoner. He also consulted early Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, meaning that the Douay Bible currently on the market is not simply a translation of the Vulgate (which many of its advocates do not realize)." - Catholic Answers

      February 2, 2011 at 3:17 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      FYI,
      Perhaps I should have also stated that the Council of Trent placed the highest recognition to the Vulgate than it granted any other text based upon the textual work of St. Jerome who used manuscripts no longer available; thus the Douay-Rheims as it is printed today is most closely related to that of St. Jerome’s.

      February 3, 2011 at 2:28 pm |
  17. Reality

    Must be a slow day on the religion front with this topic being repeated from two days ago. Anyway to reiterate:

    Po-rn/"exciting biology" used to be a luc-rative business. With the Internet, most po-rn is free i.e. said business no longer exists. So add at least one positive to the situation.

    To see the ubiquitous nature of said "free" po-rn simply "google" the term i.e. 213,000,000 hits with the most viewed sites, if I remember "google" rules correctly, being the first ones listed. "Googling" the word po-rn results in 278,000,000 hits.

    February 1, 2011 at 10:39 am |
    • Bob

      > Po-rn/"exciting biology" used to be a luc-rative business. With the Internet, most po-rn is free i.e. said business no longer exists. So add at least one positive to the situation.

      You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You are totally and completely wrong.

      February 1, 2011 at 10:44 am |
    • Reality

      And Hugh Hefner lives in a shack?

      February 1, 2011 at 3:27 pm |
  18. Reality

    Once a day WARNING for new commentators:

    • The moderators of this blog have set up a secret forbidden word filter which unfortunately not only will delete or put your comment in the dreaded "waiting for moderation" category but also will do the same to words having fragments of these words. For example, "t-it" is in the set but the filter will also pick up words like Hitt-ite, t-itle, beati-tude, practi-tioner and const-tution. Then there are words like "an-al" thereby flagging words like an-alysis and "c-um" flagging acc-umulate or doc-ument. And there is also "r-a-pe", “a-pe” and “gra-pe”, "s-ex", and "hom-ose-xual". You would think that the moderators would have corrected this by now considering the number of times this has been commented on but they have not. To be safe, I typically add hyphens in any word that said filter might judge "of-fensive".

    • More than one web address will also activate “waiting for moderation”. Make sure the web address does not have any forbidden word or fragment.

    Sum Dude routinely updates the list of forbidden words/fragments.

    Two of the most filtered words are those containing the fragments "t-it" and "c-um". To quickly check your comments for these fragments, click on "Edit" on the Tool Bar and then "Find" on the menu. Add a fragment (without hyphens) one at a time in the "Find" slot and the offending fragment will be highlighted in your comments before you hit the Post button. Hyphenate the fragment(s) and then hit Post. And remember more than one full web address will also gain a "Waiting for Moderation".

    February 1, 2011 at 10:20 am |
    • Buster Bloodvessel

      Reality, they aren't censoring you. It's us clicking Report Abuse that kills your posts. Get real.

      February 1, 2011 at 1:07 pm |
  19. Bob

    > “When the wife confronts the husbands… then you’ve got the church dealing with the fall out,” he continued. “A big part of what (Sunday) is about is prevention. Let’s talk about this ahead of time.”

    Perhaps if it wasn't demonized, it wouldn't be seen as this horrible thing.

    February 1, 2011 at 8:15 am |
    • Luke

      Well, Bob it is important to note that just like the distribution of world religions is geographical at best, so are most morals. For example, po-rn and se-xuality are not domonized in the Noridcs, but violence is. Compare that to the United States.

      February 1, 2011 at 8:47 am |
    • Buster Bloodvessel

      Bob, has your wife ever caught you ogling another woman? Was that demonized, or fairly accurately reported?

      February 1, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • Michael

      Bob, my wife walked in on me looking at p*rn and now our relationship is in shambles. Please step outside yourself and look at this logically, not selfishly. It's just a quick fix.

      February 4, 2011 at 4:35 pm |
    • Rod

      @Buster Bloodvessel @Michael
      To buster, I would try not to ogle another woman in my wife"s presence out of respect for her, however, she fully expects me to enjoy the sight of a beautiful woman and does not fault me when I do. I just try to be discrete. It's only natural to see and appreciate $exual beauty in another person, and we understand that. And we're mature and secure in our love.
      As for Michael, why would I hide my p0rn watching from my wife? I share it with her. To do otherwise is not a truly honest or intimate relationship.

      February 5, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
  20. Bob

    So, po-rn is bad because the bible says it's bad. Does that mean that slavery is correct because the bible advocates that a person can be the property of another?

    This is the typical article for churchies.
    – Show famous people who are involved.
    – Tell them the bible says it's bad.
    – Show an atypical case that's designed to illustrate the point above.
    – Flawed conclusion based on not investigating the entire subject.

    February 1, 2011 at 8:11 am |
    • Tom

      You aren't asking real questions but rhetorical ones and then continue to "prove" how right you are, and everyone else is wrong. And yes, the Bible, especially the New Testament is the moral compass for millions in this country and overseas. No, slavery is not correct. But the New Testament is not a handbook for civil unrest and simply gives positive guidelines for enslaved persons who are Christians and also their "owners" in a culture 2,000 years ago. Also, women aren't wearing head scarves in most churches today and are also preaching. Culture changes.
      According to the belief of many God is holy and that won't change. He has created marriage as a relationship between one man and one woman.
      P*rn*graphy has a damaging effect has destroyed entire families. Poor children.
      Also, a biblical belief system includes the existence of angels and demons (unseen spiritual beings), and that people can be demon controlled to certain levels. Exposure to p*rn*graphy is demonic and brings one's soul under the control of those spiritual forces. People who are BOUND by p*rn*graphy need deliverance and a change of their habits. Unfortunately, a lot of Westerners have lost their spirituality due to the demands of rationality of modern times. Their crippled spirits are unable to recognize the spiritual truth. In Jesus' times that wasn't a big issue and spiritual interactions commonly known and witnessed.

      February 1, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • CMiller

      I love posting like these from individuals who take one item from the bible and make a life changing conclusions. The fact of the matter is the bible is one of the only book that can be used to apply to any situation you may face in life. Why don't you try reading it instead of skimming over it to find items that support your preconceived notions about Christians.

      February 1, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
    • ScottK

      “I was praying to God, ‘You’ve got to help me,’” Hartman said. “I thought he wasn’t listening. The FBI showing up was the answer to prayer.” See, its God's fault that he did not stop him earlier, obviously. Or maybe this guy was "preying for God" and "The FBI showing up was" certainly the "answer to his preying".

      February 1, 2011 at 1:51 pm |
    • Learn To Fish

      Bob, that's what I'd call reading comprehension FAIL. The article is about helping people with addiction or that are prone to actions that negatively affect their life or the lives of the people they love. It's not about a guy sitting in a Hollywood studio telling everyone else how they should live. It's about a group of people, putting their reputations on the line, to get in the mix and help others. Too bad you just read until you hit the word "church" or "bible" and flipped your anti-Christian switch. Otherwise, you may have learned that the vast majority of those evil Christians aren't so evil after all.

      February 1, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • rufus

      If the bible say p*rn is bad then what's the deal with the 3 in 1 and 1 in 3?

      February 1, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
    • Bob

      > Bob, that's what I'd call reading comprehension FAIL. The article is about helping people with addiction or that are prone to actions that negatively affect their life or the lives of the people they love.

      Really, define the addiction. The article says that there's no currently accepted definition of pron addiction. The man leading the charge says his encounters are limited. So what are they basing their opinion off of. Sound medical analysis? Nope Personal experience? Nope. And what do they do? Do they investigate the husband who looks and his wife is upset? Of course not. They go to the se-x offender.

      This isn't an unbiased look at what's going down. It's a ridiculous and baseless article designed to make people afraid of pron and to lend credence to the group.

      That's what we call intelligence fail.

      February 1, 2011 at 3:00 pm |
    • Taylor Jones

      Bob,

      After reading your comment, I have decided to pray for you every night before I go to sleep.

      God Bless.

      February 1, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
    • Ozmodius612

      Sorry to "pick and choose," BUT

      I don't recall the Bible taking a stand of incest. I mean Lot daughter's getting the Lot drunk and sleeping with him in order to have his child. Sure, it's the Old Testament But Still........

      And to Tom? So WHOM decides what "cultural changes" should be adhered to in regards to the bible? IF man decides what cultural changes to adopt and which to drop, THEN it seems to me that MAN is redefining what Christianity IS and not GOD whom has already defined the rules. Sound about right?

      February 1, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
    • TheRationale

      @ Those disagreeing with Bob
      The Bible is NOT where any of you get your morality. Bob's point is that you don't r-ape, you don't kill naughty children, and you don't practice slavery. This is all in complete and utter contradiction to the Bible (and if you say the Bible doesn't advocate it, then your Bible is self-contradictory...although that's no news.) You pick and choose out of that book because your morality is both innate and formed by your surrounding people and not by that book.

      And where do you get the idea that the New Testament is somehow better than the Old? The New Testament says that the only way to salvation is through Jesus. In other words, if you don't go by the faith, you're off to Hell. Join our club or you'll be tortured forever. Yeah, that's really some high class thinking.

      This is a very common trend. People just go under the assumption that their religion is right, that their God couldn't possibly have anything wrong with him. Then they attempt to rationalize all of the evil things that their God does or promotes. The mere fact that you have to excuse or rationalize much of the Old Testament instead of promoting it like you do other bits is proof that you don't get your morality from the Bible.

      February 1, 2011 at 10:20 pm |
    • Bob

      > The fact of the matter is the bible is one of the only book that can be used to apply to any situation you may face in life.

      You are a UN Ambassador to an empoverished African nation. The current government is hording the food to maintain power. They shoot and kill anyone who gets near UN food drops and they have a stranglehold on the country. However, many other african nations support this one, and the conflict and violence may rise if action is taken. How would you proceed to resolve the complex sociioloical and economic issues of the coutry only using the bible.

      Good luck.

      February 2, 2011 at 8:05 am |
    • Bob

      > After reading your comment, I have decided to pray for you every night before I go to sleep.

      After reading that comment, I have decided to think for you every day. I'll continue to try and show you that magical incantations and ritualistic hand gestures will not make you safe from harm and will not give you life after death.

      February 2, 2011 at 8:07 am |
    • Bob

      > Why don't you try reading it instead of skimming over it to find items that support your preconceived notions about Christians.

      I have read it. The whole thing. Four times. You see I study religions as a hobby.

      The problem I have is that the bible is asserted as the word of God. So when I read it, and I see one imperfection, one mistake, one immoral act, I question the validity of the entire book. If they can't get the facts surrounding the discovery of the empty tomb correct, how can I expect the text to be a trustworthy source?

      Furthermore, when you see Jesus acting in a selfish way and then throwing up a pointless statement to change the subject, that also raises questions about the validity of Jesus as a "great moral teacher".

      February 2, 2011 at 8:10 am |
    • Bob

      > You aren't asking real questions but rhetorical ones and then continue to "prove" how right you are, and everyone else is wrong.

      Prove what exactly? I was saying the article is a religious flub piece. Which it is.

      February 2, 2011 at 8:24 am |
    • Minh Tran

      Communism in a way has good intention since its goal is to make a society of all good citizen and equaly share resources, but it is impossible to achieve this goal becuase human nature is selfish. So, at the root of every thing Communism is not good for human. Having said that you don't need to read further into Communist books. The same applied to Bible, it is relied on GOD, but Bible is written by human. At the root of it, GOD does not speak out on his own word, but only human claiming special relation with GOD to be able to hear from GOD and wrote out what GOD want to say. I may be igorance, but if I can not be in contact with GOD directly, then there is no GOD. You are not able to see electricity power and it exists, but when you touch a wire with live electric current, you can feel the shock. Bible is nothing more than a fairy tale story book to me. You don't need to read more into it just to get really lost.

      February 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.