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Chilean miner sheds light on underground religious life
Chilean miner Jose Henriquez and his wife after being brought to the surface. Henriquez addressed the National Prayer Breakfast on Thursday.
February 3rd, 2011
12:15 PM ET

Chilean miner sheds light on underground religious life

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

One of the rescued Chilean miners shed new light Thursday on the intense religious and spiritual experiences of many of the miners while trapped underground for 52 days last year, saying that faith was a key part of surviving t he ordeal.

"We realized we had only one alternative and that was God himself," said Jose Henriquez in an address to the National Prayer Breakfast on in Washington, speaking to a crowd that included President Barack Obama.

"We were different creeds and churches," Henriquez said, speaking in Spanish with simultaneous translation. "So I got them in a circle and made sure everyone could pray in a participatory fashion. And as we prayed we began to know the presence and blessing among us of God in the mine. We were strengthened, our spirits were revived.”

He said the first seventeen days were the hardest, having no communication with the outside world.

“We had some serious problems. We had very little food for three days only, no water," he said. “So we decided unless we prayed and God did a miracle there would be no way out. And that became our daily hope and confidence. We began to pray that he would do a miracle among us and solve our problems.”

There were tensions in the collapsed mine, including fist fights among the miners.

Henriquez did not speak about those fights but talked about how the miners resolved tensions. “This democratic community was not a secular democracy but a praying, democratic community," he said. "God began to reconcile us together and so we’d get  one with the other and forced them to shake their hand, we maintained the peace and community spirit that way.”

He said a turning point for the miners was the delivery of small Bibles through the tubes rescue workers used to provide food, medicine, supplies and entertainment. “There was one Bible for each man with his name on it," Henriquez said holding the small Bible above his head to show the crowd.

As a final act of thanksgiving Henriquez said he got the men to pray before they entered the rescue craft that would shuttle them to freedom. “Some wanted to dive in and get in the capsule but I said, 'Hold it. Were going to pray first.'”

As they emerged from the depths he said it seemed as though the whole world was watching. The miners wore tan t-shirts over their coveralls. The shirts were provided by a local branch of Campus Crusade for Christ. Henriquez said the miners felt like the t-shirts were, "the best way to express the way we were feeling was to wear these t-shirts we had made that said, Thank you Lord, thank you Jesus.”

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Chile • Christianity • South America

soundoff (166 Responses)
  1. CatholicMom

    Some ask for miracles so they can believe and when they see one happening right before their eyes they choose not to believe!

    Those who lived the miracle have the right to call it one.

    We shouldn’t need any further signs of what the power of prayer can do….

    Every time there is a disaster such as a collapsed mine or earthquake or such, we should not question that there is a war between good and evil that persists on this earth. The devil has great power and he will do whatever it takes to cause someone to say, ‘How can a God let this happen?’ or ‘Why would God DO this?’ or ‘I hate God’…and on and on….so if the devil can get one person to lose his faith in God he has accomplished what he set out to do. Sometimes these disasters back-fire on the devil…people find their faith in God instead of losing it. They become closer to God instead of more distant.

    There is a verse in the Bible [Revelation] that talks about being lukewarm in Faith which is being not cold or hot in Faith…God will start to vomit us out of His mouth if we are lukewarm. Being cold in Faith is to never hear the Gospel [empty hearted], being hot is having heard the Gospel and living it to the fullest…loving thy neighbor as yourself , while being lukewarm is to having heard the Gospel but then only live for self.

    It appears that if there were any miners who were cold or lukewarm, after all those fifty-some days, they became hot! Thanks be to God!

    February 3, 2011 at 11:41 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      Catholic mom ..these men were saved because of the skill of men.. if he had wanted to" god" could have brought these guys out ..had they just materialized then that would have been miraculous. But no, they did not.. sorry no miracle just humanity coming to the rescue. You better hope god gets rid of the ol devil soon, hes giving him a bad name.

      February 3, 2011 at 11:55 pm |
    • Justina

      EvolvedDNA, on the day God gets rid of devils, so He will all the blasphemers like yourself. You need to humble yourself and repent. By the way, the possibility of stuff like DNA to evolve is a big 0 in every science field. The Bible is right; you atheists are stupid to the core. You'd tell me as well your house was constructed by an earthquake instead of by architects. The universe has the Master Architect.

      February 4, 2011 at 1:58 am |
    • Evolved DNA

      Justina.. your comments show a lack of any understanding of evolution, which I imagine is no surprise. You appear to live in fear, which is the way that religions like it. Break free of you dark thoughts and live and enjoy life.. Contrary to what you have been instructed to believe, you do not need God, or Jesus, or Thor, or Ra or Mo, or Allah to live your life and be a good person. Calling people stupid would not be what 'god" would want of you anyway?

      February 4, 2011 at 10:19 am |
  2. Luke

    God tried his hardest to kill these men. It is only through the skill, perseverance, and love of fellow human beings that they were saved.

    February 3, 2011 at 11:16 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Luke,
      I am concerned about you….is this the same Luke that invited me to your wedding? The Luke I ‘know’ is Jewish and his wife is Christian….You do not sound like the same ‘Luke’ at all….

      February 4, 2011 at 10:45 am |
  3. jl

    Faith gives you something to look foward to after this life, it gives the life you have now meaning. Without it, you die. Your life had no meaning. Simply dust in the wind. If you want to criticize people for wanting to believe, wanting to live a happy life by all means. Just realize you believe in a life that has no meaning in the end.

    February 3, 2011 at 10:50 pm |
    • NL

      jl-
      "If you want to criticize people for wanting to believe, wanting to live a happy life by all means. Just realize you believe in a life that has no meaning in the end."

      So, it's OK for you to criticize what other people believe, but not vice versa?

      Life has whatever meaning you care to nurture. It's really up to us as individuals to give our lives meaning. If your faith and church life does that for you, great, but please don't demean how anybody else finds meaning in their lives just because it differs from your own way. I don't believe that I'm going anywhere after I die, but I still feel that I've made my life have meaning. How can you say that someone like me does not have meaning in my life?

      February 3, 2011 at 11:38 pm |
    • Justina

      NL, it's your false wishful thinking that you feel you have any meaning of life outside of God. You were originally created by Him and for Him. The Bible says everyone faces judgment after death. You will face eternal damnation without Christ, getting all the due justices of what you have done on earth. You don't have any idea how sinful you are because you are blinded by your own filth. Don't try to shut up religious people saying it's demeaning or whatever because we speak what you don't want to hear. Truth is hard.

      February 4, 2011 at 1:51 am |
    • NL

      Justina-
      LOL
      You realize, of course, the irony of a Christian lecturing a atheist on the follies of wishful thinking. Thanks, that made my morning! 🙂

      Now, to the other Christians reading these posts, are you all in agreement of Justina's comments, or are you too interested in presenting a united front against criticism to care what anyone is actually saying?

      February 4, 2011 at 10:20 am |
  4. alfonds

    Frankly, I'm tired hearing about the Chilean's Miners.

    February 3, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
  5. alfonds

    Frankly, I'm tired gearing about the Chilean's Miners.

    February 3, 2011 at 7:46 pm |
  6. Guaranteed

    The rescue was so much more than food rationing. Surviving the initial mine collapse and deadly methane gas, the lack of oxygen and light, the confinement and shock to the body over time, and the emotional roller coaster that these dear men went through, and finally their flawless rescue was miraculous. That others shared their expertise to aid in the rescue only strengthens the case–most of those helping were also praying to the Lord for strength and guidance. Ask anyone who works in the mining industry–those guys were goners but for the supernatural hand of God. If 2% of the population is atheist, why are there so many of you posting here? If they don't like the testimonies honoring the Lord given by these brave miners, they should go to another site to denounce God and believers. This was a story about the miners' faith. You will never convince with your stupid attacks those miners, nor those of us who prayed for them, that God did not deliver them. Call us names if it makes you feel better but it is the atheists who look stupid and delusional.

    February 3, 2011 at 7:29 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      Guaranteed.. while you were praying others were doing something about it, and they succeeded. How many unfortunate miners have died in the past few years.. why would your god play favorites with some and allow others to perish. Did their relatives not pray hard enough.

      February 4, 2011 at 12:02 am |
    • Justina

      EvolvedDNA, don't try to play God. It's up to Him, the all-knowing good God, to choose whom to rescue and whom to gather to where they belong permanently. You don't deserve a single day, but He gave you another day to live. (Matthew 5) Repent of your blasphemy and believe in Jesus for salvation.

      February 4, 2011 at 1:23 am |
  7. Jim P.

    "Thank you Lord, thank you Jesus.”"

    So the hundreds of people, millions of dollars and tens of thousands of man hours spent supplying them with food and air digging them out was not why they survivied? next time, we can save a *lot* of time and energy.

    February 3, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
    • jl

      Its what inspired those hours of manpower, to help thy neighbor

      February 3, 2011 at 11:33 pm |
  8. Mark

    If the people posting on this site (myself included) had a fraction of the strength and spirit the men in the mine showed, the world would be a better place.

    February 3, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
  9. Max

    They were lucky and good at rationing food and water, no act of a god in my eyes. But to each their own.

    February 3, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
  10. keith

    Just as our president shared about his personal faith earlier that God is what consistently sustains people...unless of course you go the route of emotionalism and irrationality by joining the 2% of the worlds population that holds to atheism

    February 3, 2011 at 5:55 pm |
    • NL

      Actually, don't you have that completely backwards? Aren't we atheists supposed to be rather like Mr. Spock, making decisions based upon logic and not emotion?

      February 3, 2011 at 11:47 pm |
    • Justina

      NL, you learned logic from the Bible and Christianity. Barbaric mankind can have no clue in systematic logic without Christianity. The reason modern science developed only in Christendom, nowhere else. The Chinese civilization had everything superior but not the Bible. De-christianized West is in regression.

      February 4, 2011 at 1:18 am |
    • NL

      Justina-
      Hmm... Methinks I smell a troll, but I'll play along for now.

      Wasn't 1 Corinthians 1:25, "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men", Paul's way of explaining why the Christian message failed to stand against Greek logic? Modern science began with these same Greeks, then went into decline within Christian Europe until the Enlightenment, which was a decidedly secular in direction.

      February 4, 2011 at 10:08 am |
    • Anglican

      NL. Life without emotion and wonder is not life. At least not a life I would want. Peace.

      February 4, 2011 at 10:44 am |
    • NL

      Anglican-
      A rational person is one who does not allow their emotions to rule their lives.
      To you, peace as well.

      February 4, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • Anglican

      NL I agree.

      February 4, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
  11. Sao

    I can assure you, either you'll get old or die young. We all need God. God's attributes: Omnipotent= All Powerful Omniscience= All knowing / Omnipresent = He's everywhere! / Fools say in his heart that there is no God! Draw near to God and He'll draw near to you!

    February 3, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
  12. Siyajkak

    I think its wonderful, especially that different faiths were able to pray together. I order to give us free will and the ability to shape our own destinies, God has given us a world of opportunities and dangers. In order that we may retain free will, he does not "wave his hand" and cure all of our ills immediately. Then there would be no invention, no discovery, no curiosity, not humanity. Prayer should be for guidance, for strength, and in the most desperate instances, a miracle. that is what happened here

    February 3, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • Justina

      Yes, in Jesus' name. Prayers are heard by the God Almighty in His only Son. Different faiths here must mean different denominations.

      February 4, 2011 at 1:14 am |
    • Nonimus

      @Siyajkak,
      "...he does not 'wave his hand' and cure all of our ills immediately. Then there would be no invention, no discovery, no curiosity, not humanity. Prayer should be for guidance, for strength, and in the most desperate instances, a miracle."

      So even though He knows our pain and could eliminate it easily, He chooses to withhold relief until we pray to Him "in the most desperate instances."
      what kind of being sets up a system where the only purpose is for the inhabitents to suffer until they worship the very being that put them there?

      February 4, 2011 at 1:18 pm |
  13. Juan

    What ego they must have to think that they are worthy to live because they survived. Do they really think god had some hand in that?? What makes them so special and why do thousands perish everyday in similar tragedies They survived because of luck and technology the only real "god" my two cents!!

    February 3, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • Ki

      You go get trapped underground for 52 days living without food for a long time and have barely any oxygen to breathe in ….when that happens to you then you can say whatever num nuts. Have you never had an encounter with God…hmm maybe thats because you are so delusional thinking that your going to live and die …theres more then that but you wont ever know or understand once you et your selfish head out of your butt

      February 3, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
  14. Ari

    why is this ridiculous "faith blog" getting so many front pages stories on CNN.com. this is supposed to be our news network, not some idiotic fantasy "thank the lord" website. there are enough of those already.

    February 3, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
    • Magic

      Ari,

      I think it's a good thing that the' believers' are getting to see some of the real world as the 'non-believers' respond to these issues. If they stay on their insulated "thank the lord" websites, they never will experience it, and will only have their delusions constantly reinforced.

      February 3, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
    • neoritter

      Ari – why don't you just ignore it and I don't know not read it.

      Magic – Try talking like less of a close-minded bigot. Thanks. 😉

      February 3, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
    • Steve

      @neoritter

      How about you and all the rest of you condemning the negative responses respect the opinions and beliefs of others regardless of how different they are from your own. Christians (or otherwise) tend to call themselves the most tolerable of all people, but yet become very obnoxious and argumentative when it comes to others not believing or giving a sh1t about their religious beliefs.

      February 3, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
    • john

      Oh Ari ! Where ever there is news – or anything happening, God is there also. I am sorry to you that there have been many self proclaimed Christians who have so severly misrepresented all the God is to you, but believe us when we say, that as one stops trying to justify them self getting their eyes off of them self as the god of their world. It is then as you look to God for your salvation, and allow Him to be the God of your life that He is able to rescue you from this world. Don't look completly at us to prove God's goodness – reach out to Him. For God Is! and He is waiting for you to reach out to Him.

      February 3, 2011 at 7:53 pm |
    • opinion

      Magic, 'nonbelievers' are the ones not living in the 'real' world.

      Ari a lot of believers read CNN too, thats the reason for the articles. I'm sure there are a whole lot of people who dont like everything on the CNN website. I for one, am glad that CNN (a liberal news organization) finally realized that there was an entire audience of people that they needed to reach.

      February 4, 2011 at 9:18 am |
    • Arii

      "Believe" – believe what? which fairy tale do you entertain?

      if you had of been a roman in early times you would have prayed to one of 12 or more gods, if you had of been born a hindu you'd pray to a different god, here you are a christian or a muslim or jew and you believe you're particular brand of "crazy" is the right one....LOL. it must be comforting to find such easy satisfaction from stories that are no different to santa claus or the tooth fairy for that matter...

      "faith" religion, in any form – is completely random and placing an online blog about it, is as ridiculous as having one about alien existance on earth, and letting those people that believe in that share stories and comments on it.

      every time we turn around in this country there's another idiot talking to us about god. we have to hear from our president, from law makers – we have to see it on our money, we have to say it in the pledge – frankly its ridiculous. Religion is not a part of everyone in this countries life, and it shouldn't be. There are 15% of us who do not subscribe to any of this BS and even more who don't practise or partake in the madness of organized religion. pubslihing this nonsense only lends credibility where there is none – and its done for the wrong reasons if it's done to attract the bottom feeders that need it in order to listen to real news.

      February 4, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
  15. Jerry

    Has anyone commenting on here spent 52 days trapped in a mine? I didn't think so. They found what they needed to come through the ordeal, and it worked. Whether anyone on here believes it came from above or from within themselves is irrelevant.

    February 3, 2011 at 5:18 pm |
  16. Pete H

    God didn't torture the Chliean miners. He refined their faith, and the faith of many who watched this event unfold. There were others who watched, from the bottom of their own "mineshafts." They, through their own hardness of heart, missed entirely the message that was clearly presented to them, and thus missed out on a chance of rescue. In the end, some were brought back into the light, while others chose, and continue to choose, to remain in the dark.

    February 3, 2011 at 3:29 pm |
  17. tengo

    Why would anyone pray to a god so depraved that he/it/she/ tortured those miners for 52 days .a real god would wave his hand and bring them all up the first day,but what else would you expect from a god that slowly killed all his claimed creations by slowly drowning them.Go pray to a rock you will have the same result

    February 3, 2011 at 2:52 pm |
    • john

      tengo; I wanted to give you a thoughtful responce, but then I thought I might as well go talk to a rock. The Rock many of us pray to is our savour Jesus. When we talk to Him He shows Himself Faithful and True. As long as you see Him as depraved you will never know the joy we have in Him.

      February 3, 2011 at 5:18 pm |
    • SavedByJesus69

      If you don't believe, fine. It's your choice. But at least get the story straight if you are going to criticize. Just three (paraphrased) quotes from the Bible tell most of the story concerning this:

      "Satan comes only to steal, kill and destroy". (John 10:10)
      "(God says) I know the plans I have for you. They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope" (Jer 29:11)
      "satan is the ruler of this world" (2 cor 4:4)

      Satan did this. God turned it around and used it to increase their faith, draw them closer to him and therefore prosper them. The catch is that He does it while working with your free will (faith = you trust God knows best). You can always reject him, and after a while he will stop asking and let you live your choices. The miners could have decided to reject God and then He can't help them cause He will respect free will.

      February 3, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
    • billf

      @savedbyjesus

      have you not heard of the story of the prodigal son? God is supposed to always take you back no matter what. Did the part you read conflict with the part i mentioned?? hm, what a surprise, im sure you have a reason to give me why god would tell many different people to write contradictory statements in many different books, could you let me know of it? k thx bye;)

      February 3, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
    • SavedByJesus69

      God always takes you back IF you want to be taken back. That is what the prodigal son did 🙂

      In terms of other books, each one talks about a different god unfortunately. I can't make them fit together because they don't.

      February 3, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
    • SavedByJesus69

      unless you're talking about different books of the Bible. In which case they don't contradict each other, but it certainly takes effort to understand the whole picture. I'm still in the process myself so I can't claim to be an authority, but this situation of the miners does have a Biblical ring to it.

      In terms of taking you back, you always have the option to come back. But if you insist on not wanting, then he'll let you live your choices and that will include living outside of the blessings he had prepared for you (Numbers 14:22-23). You can always repent though, and back you go

      February 3, 2011 at 7:57 pm |
    • NL

      SavedByJesus69-
      If Satan really wanted to fool up people's faith wouldn't he do a better job by preventing people from having accidents, getting cancers, hitting rock bottom and all the other ways that people typically 'find Jesus?'

      I mean, if he gave everyone the easy life, made them prosperous and protected them from harm then wouldn't people have less reason to turn to God for comfort? Think about it, Satan is supposed to be cleaver, right?

      February 4, 2011 at 12:26 am |
    • Justina

      NL, don't forget that humanity's evil nature that we don't admit truth unless we are forced to. You admit your own fault only when you are caught or because you will get caught. And the causation of all ills – sicknesses, disasters and accidents – is humanity's sin and rebellion.

      February 4, 2011 at 1:09 am |
    • The Spelling Police

      @ NL

      I once saw Satan portrayed in a slasher movie – it was clever – when he used a cleaver.... "AAhhhhggrrrrr.. !!!"

      February 4, 2011 at 1:41 am |
    • NL

      Justina-
      "don't forget that humanity's evil nature that we don't admit truth unless we are forced to."
      I often feel this way about humanity when I discuss the merits of evolution with creationists.

      "And the causation of all ills – sicknesses, disasters and accidents – is humanity's sin and rebellion."
      Have you ever read the myth of Pandora? She, like Eve, was the first woman created by the gods and she was given a jar with the world's ills contained inside, but her curiosity also got the better of her as well, without the prompting of a talking snake. The common tread, Justina, is that ancient man liked nothing better than to blame everything bad that happens on women. So, in that light, does this story still ring true today for you?

      February 4, 2011 at 8:18 am |
    • NL

      The Spelling Police
      Oopsie! 🙂

      February 4, 2011 at 8:20 am |
    • David Johnson

      @SavedByJesus69

      You said: "Satan did this."

      No, Sparky. Satan did not do this.

      There is no Satan.
      Satan was invented by men, because they felt "funny" worshipping a god that had just devastated a village of good people via a flood. They didn't want their god to be the one who did evil. So, Beelzebub was born.

      Consider:
      You believe god is all knowing. Yes?
      You believe god is all powerful. Yes?
      You believe everything written in the bible is true. Yes?
      You believe Satan is at least as intelligent as your average human. Yes?
      You believe Satan can read? Yes?
      You believe the King James is the inerrant word of god. Yes?

      Do you think Satan ever read the part, in the King James, where he loses the battle against god?
      Who, more than a fallen angel, would believe/know god was omniscient? Not to mention omnipotent.

      That would have been a stumbling block to any coup attempt. Right?

      So, rebellion would have been dumb of Satan and his band of angels. God would have said, "You will lose and you will lose your health insurance." End of rebellion, I think.

      These stories are fiction. Do you see that? What ent ity would rebel against an all powerful, all knowing god? You couldn't even sneak up on Him. Sheesh! Use your brain, just a little.

      Cheers!

      February 4, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      NL,
      Satan gets souls anyway he can.

      Some souls may be gotten from people who worship their money and think ‘they’ are superior to other people… superior to especially the ones with money problems;….people who say, ‘I worked hard for my money, I’ll be danged if I’ll give any to a charity’; Or ‘I pulled myself up by my boot straps…he can do the same’; pride, lack of love for your neighbor, idol worship [money, material goods, self] are the devil's tools.

      He, of course, has no heart and loves to see people suffer in hopes that they will denounce God because of it;….he tries all the angles, working day and night…and some of his ploys backfire and people’s faith is strengthened. Bet that makes him red in the face, wouldn’t you think?

      February 5, 2011 at 9:18 am |
    • Magic

      CatholicMom,

      "Bet that makes him red in the face, wouldn’t you think?"

      No.

      There is no such thing as 'Satan'... see David Johnson's reply.

      Do you do cartoons and comic strips as a sideline?

      People do harmful (evil) things sometimes. This is due to decisions made in their brains... there are no devils, goblins, ghouls, bogeymen, banshees, gremlins nor 'Satan'.

      February 5, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
  18. Karloff

    it's good they survived, but they're all delusional.

    February 3, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • Bdub

      You're delusional.

      February 3, 2011 at 3:19 pm |
    • Bdub

      @Karloff – I'm sure you've prayed, right? Or, have you? Do not "harden your heart."

      February 3, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
    • Ari

      exactly! delusional...it's humanities ego that likes to point to a god and say "god selected me to live" self indulgent nonsense.

      February 3, 2011 at 5:18 pm |
    • Guaranteed

      Karloff–What a jerk you are! That these guys survived is an absolute miracle. Who are you to say anything negative about their character when they showed great courage and faith. You ever been trapped underground? You ever spend a night in the belly of the earth with no hope to be found or rescued? Only a creep would hear their amazing story and then call them delusional after they credit the Lord with their deliverance! You are a pig!

      February 3, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
    • Wim

      Exactly. It's just confirmation bias. "We got out, therefore God." Meanwhile, miners all over the world in similar accidents all get killed. It boggles the mind that people don't see this.

      February 3, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
    • come on man

      and how do you know this?

      February 3, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
    • NL

      Guaranteed
      "Who are you to say anything negative about their character when they showed great courage and faith."
      Think of all the American miners who have died underground. They likely showed great courage and faith too, right? Didn't save them, however, did it? That's how we can say that these particular miners were lucky. Technology and better media coverage are likely the factors here that made this a success story, unless you care to argue that God chose to favor these guys over all the other equally devout miners that have ever been trapped underground?

      February 4, 2011 at 12:21 am |
    • Justina

      NL, there are things and reasons unknown to us why some survive and others do not. There is time to be born and time to depart this world – for all of us. Don't jump into conclusion such as luck. God shows no favortism. Everything is according to His time and His sovereignty. He is good. You must trust God, then you will know "why" of matters. He didn't create a pure formula that we can live in but a beautiful wonder-world, though we brought sorrow into it by our own sin.

      February 4, 2011 at 1:03 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Justina

      You said: " He is good. You must trust God, then you will know "why" of matters. He didn't create a pure formula that we can live in but a beautiful wonder-world, though we brought sorrow into it by our own sin."

      Hmmm... God is good.?

      God directly or at His insistence, murdered men, women and children including babies. Is this good? Is this moral?

      God had a man believe he was going to sacrifice his son to Him. Do you know how traumatic that would be for a father and his son?
      If you had the power would you do this? Would you be so insecure? Is this good? Is this moral?

      There was a man who loved God. God made a bet with Satan that even if the man were tortured, his Possessions taken, and his children killed, he would still love God and never curse Him. God won the bet.
      Would you do that? Would you kill a man's children for a bet? Is this good? Is this moral?

      God sent a bear to kill a group of children, because they had teased one of His prophets.
      Did the children deserve to die, because they teased a bald man? Is this good? Is this moral?

      God allowed a man to sacrifice his daughter to Him, for giving the man a victory in battle.
      Is this good? Is this moral?

      God created a place He can send people to be burned for all eternity. Could an all good god do this?

      If a puppy wet on the floor, would you hold it over a burner? Even for a second?

      Jesus had this to say:

      Matthew 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
      Luke 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.

      A good god can't do evil things! So, god could be evil or he could not exist and all the events we see, are just coincidence and random chance.

      Cheers!

      February 4, 2011 at 8:45 am |
    • opinion

      I totally get where you are coming from because I used to think just like you. I thought anyone who believed in God was delusional but trust me they are not. I pray that one day Karloff, you are brought to your knees and will realize that God is your only hope out of the situation you are in.

      February 4, 2011 at 9:05 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Justina

      You said: "He didn't create a pure formula that we can live in but a beautiful wonder-world, though we brought sorrow into it by our own sin."

      We brought sorrow into it by our own sin.? No, Adam and Eve ate the fruit not "we".

      Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree of knowledge.
      So god created disease that kill humans, animals and plants. He constructed the tick and the flea, and the tape worm and the mosquito and all hurtful things. He caused the animals to prey on one another. He invented the disasters that kill thousands.

      God did this to teach...what lesson, to the subsequent generations? The desire for knowledge is evil? Just read your bible and believe? What lesson? Or was it done, just to punish, for not obeying?

      Some have said that suffering results from bad choices humans make, because they have free will. But this certainly does not explain the earthquakes, tsunamis, Hurricanes, pandemics etc., that kill and cause suffering for thousands.

      But you say, "we brought the sorrow by our sin". Really? Did these things spontaneously generate as the fruit was chewed?

      So when a person is placed under the lash or upon the rack, he brought it upon himself?
      No matter how hideous the penalty, the person applying the punishment bears no guilt?
      Did no one fashion the lash or devise the rack?

      The fundies claim, that god doesn't send you to hell, you send yourself to hell. Make no mistake. God sends people to hell. Believers always want to give their god a pass on evil. Satan does it, humans are responsible, etc.

      If god is the creator of all things, then he is responsible for the bad as well as the good. He made the beautiful flowers and the worm that is eating a child's eye.

      If God exists and is all good, we must have evidence that all of the evil we see are for a higher purpose.

      All the pain and suffering should have the purpose of teaching. But even fundies admit there is no evidence. That is why they must resort to talking about the mysterious ways in which God works or God's Great Plan.

      There's no evidence at all, that 300 to 500 million people dying from Smallpox in the 20th century, is for a greater good.

      Walk through a children's cancer ward some time. Come back and tell me what lessons are being learned there.

      What lesson does the parent of a baby born without a brain take away from the experience?

      What lesson is taught to a mother, who is watching her baby starve?

      Even if evil and suffering is a teaching tool, an all good God would only allow as much evil or suffering as is absolutely necessary, in order to achieve a greater purpose. Any suffering above that necessary to learn, would have no purpose.

      But when we look at the world around us, we find many instances of apparently pointless suffering from which no greater purpose seems to result.

      As William Rowe points out, "when a fawn burns to death in a forest fire and no human being ever knows about it, this apparently unnecessary evil does nothing to build the character of human beings. It is just suffering."

      Consider that Evolution is responsible for disease and nasty parasites. The disasters all have natural origins.
      When you drop god from the equation, you eliminate much of human strife.

      Cheers!

      February 4, 2011 at 11:46 am |
    • NL

      Justina
      "Don't jump into conclusion such as luck."
      So, you don't believe in luck, eh? I guess you would then consider every odds-breaking escape from death to be a specific intervention on God's part, but do you remember the movie Valkyrie? Several amazing glitches all came together to save Hitler from Claus von Stauffenberg's plan to kill him. Without luck to account for this I suppose you would consider Hitler's escape to be part of God's plan also.

      February 4, 2011 at 3:44 pm |
  19. Anglican

    Hope springs eternal.

    February 3, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • Rene

      True.

      February 3, 2011 at 8:02 pm |
  20. David Johnson

    Fear was the god's begetter in this world. – Petronius

    February 3, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • come on man

      LOL..........man do you really spend all your time bashing someone you don't believe in? I literally see you on every blog involving faith issues doing this over & over..........Get a hobby or something !!!

      February 3, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
    • keith

      Im pretty sure that David Johnson has nothing to do with his life, and has to be consistently posting random slogans to convince himself of his faulty logic. Go back to warcraft David, people will listen to your wild fantastical views there...

      February 3, 2011 at 7:17 pm |
    • please.

      CNN on Chilean miner articles a half year later.

      February 3, 2011 at 7:24 pm |
    • Reality

      Where was god when 26 Chinese mine workers died in an explosion in Novermber? Wrong religion? Atheists? Hmmm?

      February 3, 2011 at 11:59 pm |
    • NL

      come on man, keith, et al
      Can't help but notice that you all are spending even more time simply commenting on how David spends his time, like gossiping old biddies, and not actually adding anything on the topic of discussion.

      February 4, 2011 at 12:12 am |
    • Justina

      Reality, it's God's sovereignty whom He gives extended life and a life at all. Unlike you, He is all-knowing and all-wise. Each new day is a miracle from God for us. You could ask God questions when you meet Him, but you need to believe in Jesus while alive. China is 10% Christian.

      February 4, 2011 at 12:55 am |
    • David Johnson

      @come on man

      I am on a mission! I have a calling!

      If I can dissuade even one "on the fence" onlooker to not drink the Kool Aid, I am fulfilled!

      Cheers!

      February 4, 2011 at 8:11 am |
    • David Johnson

      @keith

      You said: "Im pretty sure that David Johnson has nothing to do with his life..."

      I am fascinated by stupidity and self delusion.

      Cheers!

      February 4, 2011 at 8:23 am |
    • Reality

      Justina,

      Hold the fort on god being all knowing.

      In his book Church: The Human Story of God, Father Edward Schillebeeckx, the famous contemporary theologian, says,

      "Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings. For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

      Schillebeeckx was responding to the Dutch citizens who were blaming God for the North Sea storms that destroyed a significant number of levees resulting in a significant loss of life and severe storm damage. Sound familiar??

      February 4, 2011 at 11:54 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.