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February 11th, 2011
07:55 AM ET
Kentucky Senate passes bill to teach Bible classes in public schoolsFrom CNN Louisville, Kentucky affiliate WLKY Frankfort, Kentucky - Bible classes could be taught in Kentucky public schools under a bill that's made it halfway through Kentucky's legislature. State Senator Joe Bowen wants Kentucky public school students to have an opportunity to take classes about the Bible. "No doubt about it, the most important book ever written and obviously, it's had so much influence on our society and all of western civilization," Bowen said. Last year, former State Senator David Boswell introduced the same bill. It passed the Senate, but died in the house. Bowen defeated Boswell last November. Read the full story from CNN Louisville, Kentucky affiliate WLKY.
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Why don't we add the Quran to the bill? It is older than King James and therefore more accurate and historically significant. Right, right?
Tim
Why don't we add the Quran to the bill? It is older than King James and therefore more accurate and historically significant. Right, right?
--
Wrong, wrong!!
1. Islam is not the foundation of this country!
2. Perhap the Qu'ran is older than the KJV but the question you must ask is the Qu'ran older that the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts on which the KJV is based (not perfectly but still based).
Tim,
Would a Catholic or protestant teach the class? Would he/she choose the Bible for the class…would it be a Catholic Bible or one which sprang forth at the time of the Luther split from Catholicism? Or would a Bible used by any of the 38,000 splits from Lutheranism be chosen for the Bible?
The Catholic Church holds Catechism classes for Catholic students who wish to study the Bible in our community…non-Catholics are welcome, too. In our small town which has two different churches, Catholic and Presbyterian, only the Catholic Church offers Bible classes to students.
If this should become law in Kentucky, I am glad to see that it would be an option and it should not take the place of any study such as math or science, art or music…so it should be Bible Study or Study Hall. This should also be an ‘hour’ which the ecclesial communities…and non-Christian faiths could opt to hold their own ‘Bible Study’ at the school if a room could be provided or in their churches/synagogues if they so choose.
1. Islam is not the foundation of this country!
Neither is Christianity. As much as you wish it's the case. Sorry.
Why is it that a Canadian knows your history better then you do?
Bob.
1. Islam is not the foundation of this country!
Neither is Christianity. .
--------
Why is it that a Canadian knows your history better then you do? I will answer you using your own words.
As much as you wish it's the case. Sorry
While not "official" The Mayflower Compact provided a strong start (foundation) to this country! Why not official? Too much about God!
> While not "official" The Mayflower Compact provided a strong start (foundation) to this country! Why not official? Too much about God!
Umm, explain to me how you have concluded that the mayflower compact was the foundation for our current const-tution. Because from what I can see, many of it's core concepts did not make it over.
The const-tution is the foundation of the country. Not the mayflower compact.
Bob.
> While not "official" The Mayflower Compact provided a strong start (foundation) to this country! Why not official? Too much about God! Umm, explain to me how you have concluded that the mayflower compact was the foundation for our current const-tution. Because from what I can see, many of it's core concepts did not make it over. The const-tution is the foundation of the country. Not the mayflower compact
---------
For one. It is over 100 years older than the Const-itution, second the compact was made on the shores of THIS country. I said "not official" but none the less the spiritual foundation of this country! The US Const-ition is the legal foundation, the Mayflower Compact is the SPIRITUAL foundation!
I guess we should still obey the monarchy in England then too.
"We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&
Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country..."
(Mayflower Compact, 1620)
Come on Nomimus! Shall we sail the Atlantic in a wooden boat and wear strange clothing as well? Spiritual foundation! Not Legal but spiritual! These folk left England for Spiritual freedom! the King James they mention, oddly it is the same guy who provided common folk with a version of the bible they could understand, the King James Version!
"Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith".... This is why they came! This is the spiritual foundation!
Come on Steve! You say the Mayflower Compact has some meaning to this country and yet you don't acknowledge the whole doc.ument, just cherry-picked portions of it. Why not the whole doc.ument? Oh, that's right because it's been superseded by the Const.itution. The Plymouth Colony became part of the Massachusetts colony which became part of the US; the Compact no longer applies legally or spiritually. If the founding fathers had felt that way the would have put "for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith" in the freakin Const.itution, but they didn't.
If you want to claim a spiritual foundation for the US, at least claim it from a common reason that more than one boat/colony had, Freedom! Freedom of religion, Freedom from tyranny, Freedom of opportunity or... I don't know... Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
> For one. It is over 100 years older than the Const-itution,
That's moronic. There were rocks millions of years before the const-tution, does that mean it's founded on rocks? Come on dude.
> Second the compact was made on the shores of THIS country.
Rocks were formed on this country too. Wow, 0 for 2 Steve. Come on.
> I said "not official" but none the less the spiritual foundation of this country!
Can you provide some non-biased evidence to support your ludicrous claim?
> The US Const-ition is the legal foundation, the Mayflower Compact is the SPIRITUAL foundation!
Same as above. Have any evidence or is this just more inane rambling?
Great. We are creating more religious nut jobs by taking valuable time away from Math, English and the Sciences. No wonder, our kids are intellectually impotent.
Great. Everyone will get a bible-related job and we are waiting for Jesus to come back with the bread so that everyone will live on the bread.
alex, Job 38:19: "Where is THE WAY where light dwelleth?" How come Job didn't say where is THE PLACE where light dwelleth? Because light is always moving. How did Job know something in 1500 B.C. that science didn't find out until Einstein? How can the men who wrote that Amazing Book, with their limited scientific knowledge – BE SO FAR AHEAD OF SCIENCE?
Ecclesiastes 1:6: "The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again ACCORDING TO HIS CIRCUITS." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the wind traveled within circuits? How did he know something that the aerologists and meteorologists are just now discovering? THINK ABOUT IT! How can these men, with their limited knowledge thousands of years ago, be so far ahead of science?
Proverbs 6:6-8: "Go to the ant. . . gathereth her food in the harvest." Life's Nature Library "The Insects" (p.163) commenting on Proverbs 6 reads, "One of the entomological puzzles of the last century concerned this observation by Solomon. There was no evidence that ants actually harvested grain. In 1871, however, a British naturalist showed that Solomon had been right after all. . ." How did Solomon know that in 1000 B.C.? How did Solomon CLEARLY, detail a scientific FACT, that was IMPOSSIBLE for him to know in 1000 B.C.?
Leviticus 17:11: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood." That's the most accurate, scientific statement ever written about the blood! It is the blood that carries on all the life processes of the body. It is the blood that causes growth, builds new cells, grows bone and flesh, stores fat, makes hair and nails. It is the blood that feeds and supports all the organs of the body.
There's more that is written, but CNN keeps blocking the rest.
great, The Bread of Life is the spiritual food needed by man. Without the bread of life man cannot live spiritually. Just as physically man needs to eat in order to live, the bread of life gives nourishment for the soul.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Amen.
Somehow Kentucky is not evolving. They are reverting back to knuckle dragging primates. Palin and Santorium dropped by to show their support for de-evolution.
Barking Alien, Then, I'll say "hello" to some your relatives living at the zoos which haven't evolved. You trekkies watch too many Batman and Robin reruns. BANG, BOOM ... to the moon Alice.
I think this is a great idea, but only if every other major religion's text in the world is taught with equal weighting. Maybe then we wouldn't have so many people claiming that Islam is a violent religion when they really have never learned a thing about the religion.
As the most common and effective source of control, people should know what the religions actually teach.
Okay if, Jesus' truth (Alpha and Omega) would love the results of the theology scholars from around the globe be printed. This study has been completed for years.
Look, teaching the bible or any religious text in school is legal, and can be done, the issue is in the manner in which it is taught. As philosophy it is extremely powerful, and to deny any religious text of such importance that right is to be ignorant, no matter how much people on CNN threads insult "sky ghosts" or compare it to pasta monsters.
John, It's a simple deduction... non-believers refuse to give up their sinful ways. Wanting chaos to rule supreme. That is, as long as they get their way.
Amen.
This is deeply disturbing on every level and plain WRONG!!! BTW, it's NOT the most important G.D. book ever written. It's no more valid than your average comic book. Keep your stinking, hateful religion out of public schools!!!!
BL, The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Proverbs 2:5
Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Proverbs 3:7
The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Proverbs 9:10
He that walketh in his uprightness feareth the LORD: but [he that is] perverse in his ways despiseth him.
Proverbs 14:2
A wise [man] feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
Proverbs 14:16
The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.
Proverbs 15:33
By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil.
Proverbs 16:6
The fear of the LORD [tendeth] to life: and [he that hath it] shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil.
Proverbs 19:23
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.
Job 28:28
The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.
Psalms 111:10
What part of these few scriptures, do you not comprehend?
There is no god.
The bible is a collection of fairy tales.
Get a life, sheeple.
RIP, Leonid Brezhnev....
If ANYONE would know without a shadow of a doubt that there is a God it would be Brezhnev. As he is no longer on this earth, he is either in the very presence of God or not!
Leonid Brezhnev ... you are proof positive why Jesus' wisdom needs to be brought into the school systems again.
Amen.
With our nation slipping in the world in terms of education, we need more science and math classes. Religious instructions should be left to the home and places of worship.
You prove exactly why it is urgently needed to be brought back into the school system along with public places.
Thank you for posting.
i studies in nigeria (50%) christian and india (80% muslim country. Those countries had christian education and teaching in school. Why does an almost 90% christian america have a problem???
A lot of us have a problem with it because this country stands for freedom of religion. Many people are not open-minded about religions other than Christianity. There is no place in the public schools to teach religious beliefs...that is why we have Catholic schools, Lutheran schools, etc.
@rajesh,
Since when is India a 80% muslim country? Get your facts right. Muslims make up 14% of the population in India.
Coming back to the debate, Watch the movie idiocracy...there is exactly where the world is headed to...SCARY!
@ Rajesh,
I studied in India (a Secular Democratic Republic) and no we did not have christian teaching in school. Infact, we did not have to learn about any particular religion at all! religion is a private matter, and it was kept out of the public in India (unless ofcourse you went to a religious school)....
I am astonished by your ill-informed statements......atleast do a fact check before you make statements like this in public..
I agree with nonimus. "Most important book ever written"... what. It disturbs me to have people who think they find truth in a 2000 year old text running around in government. In an age of cell phones, computers, etc, how is it that some people are still stuck in bronze age thinking? I guess only time will fix this ignorance.
Citizens of Kentucky should be outraged at the waste of time and money on useless bills.
As one senator put it, "even though Bowen admits there's nothing preventing Kentucky public schools from teaching bible classes now."
There is nothing preventing any public school in U.S. from have a course on the Bible. It must be taught as a literature or social studies type class, but it can be taught.
Lawmakers need to learn the Law.
Really, the only way to teach from the Bible in a public school is as literature, and in parallel with history, geography, comparative religion, opportunities for discussion of language, etc. As a faith text, there would be vast disagreements on interpretation, not to mention so many outside groups watching the curriculum.
Agreed! Also, even if it were taught as literature only, isn't this more of something one would take as a class in college? Do we really need to focus on the Bible in public schools when there are so many other studies that need to be taught to succeed in life?
I hope this becomes law and that the state gets sued for billions!
One more step on the road to the USA becoming a theocracy...
Wow, you sir are a true gem, the state is becoming more and more secular as the years pass, and to the person who would try to sue for Billions, I would love to see the state sued for something that offends some pretentious little snowflake.
> I would love to see the state sued for a law that clearly violates the const-tuition.
Fixed your comment for you.
@John
Of course, I agree with Bob's correction.
I think you will find that just about 100% of the time bible thumpers get together and try to allow the teaching of their manmade tribal myths in public schools, the get their heads handed to them by the courts. They are clearly slow learners and do not do their homework on the 1st Amendment, separation of church and state, etc. If they don't understand the lessons they can get for free, perhaps they will better understand them when it costs them big bucks. Given that they continue to cling to childish sky daddy stories, I don't think they will ever get it, but one can hope.
@ All that don't like this,
Well to Ron, Doc, David and to anybody else...This is truly great. Christians aren't going to take being silenced anymore so get used to it. Our schools need to revive prayer...If you don't like it....then home school your kids...that is what most christian families are doing today b/c our schools have gone to p-'ot with teaching the way all the atheist, and non-believers wanted.
Thank you Kentucky Senate.....your are a role model for the rest of us in leading this charge.
@CW
Religious teaching is for Church, not public school.
Do you recall a while back when you tried to blame school violence and shootings on the removal of prayer from schools and I provided you a very lengthy list of murders in christian schools from all over the world?
Programming kids with mythology doesn't make them any more or less likely to be good people when they grow up. Teaching them independent thought and how to perform rational inquiries, however, greatly improves everybody's quality of life.
Reject dogma! Think for yourself!
Who is trying to silence Christians?? You already have a place to educate your children about Christianity, it is called your Church. Also, prayer in schools is alive and well. Children of all religions, not just your own, pray in school daily. They don't need your help or organization, or anyone's permission, to keep doing it.
The public schools are for everyone, not just Christians. They need to focus on education – math, science, reading. That is what will keep our country great.
CW, I wonder if you would feel the same way if the Bible were replaced with the Qu'ran or the Torah?
@ Doc,
Try try again...your so called "rational thinking" is what has gotten America in trouble. Using the Bible's teachings in school will not only improve thinking but will teach the way that all should live. I stand behind my comment from before....you can point out all the stuff you want. I never said that there was never ANY problems in Christians schools...BUT...most students that go to the christian schools are getting a much better education than any of the other public schools AND they are learning that the Bible provides the NECESSARY knowledge on how to live their lives for God. Thus my comment about how there isn't very much voilence in christian schools b/c MOST(there are still some kids who will do ev-'il)...not all are following the teachings of God.
Well said, Cameo!
@CW
What trouble do you see in America that has been caused by rational thinking aside from your subjective opinion that anyone who doesn't share your religion is bound for eternal torment?
And how does reinforcing dogmatic thinking and rote replies improve thinking? Jonah didn't really live inside a whale, the entire earth was not flooded all at once, mustard seeds are not teh smallest of all seeds and they don't sprout into mighty trees, snakes don't talk, the earth is far older than 6000 years, is not flat nor is it the centre of the universe.
Your assertion that everybody in the world should think, believe and act as you do is the height of arrogance.
There are innumerable people who live positive lives without the Bible all throughout the world.
Using bible teachings will improve thinking? Uh... have you READ the bible? Or are you one of the massive number of christians that blindly follows this religion to feel like they have a place? The bible is very oppressive, which is the opposite of allowing imaginative thinking. People are capable of living fantastic lives without religion, and I think the enlightenment of understanding a godless universe is far greater than the one received by worshiping a cruel, jealous, angry god. Ever wonder why kids do bad things sometimes? Probably because of being picked on or crappy home lives. It has nothing to do with their religion or lack there of. The education would be better in christian schools only because they are private. It has nothing to do with the bible. Exactly where in the bible is spelling, reading, math, or geography taught?
Wow, CW. You seriously need a reality check. I'm not sure where you were born and raised, but Christian schools where I am from are, for lack of a better term, a joke. If a good little Christian kid gets in trouble (i.e. knocked up, arrested, etc), they are kicked out of that school and placed in public schools. There is no way that I would ever send my child to a Christian school and there is a definite reason why the Bible (or any other religious book) is not taught in public schools. It is a PUBLIC school, meaning that there could be people from any background and religion attending. Now, I am Christian, but I do not believe in forcing one's religion onto anybody else. If you choose to believe what is in the Bible is the best for your child's education, by all means send them to a private school or home school them. Do not try to force your beliefs and lifestyles on others.
CW – not to sound completely brain dead, but, WOW! That's all I have to say. BTW, I went to public school my whole life. I have a beautiful wife and 2 beautiful kids. Worst thing I've ever done is smack a mosquito on my arm. Guess I'm one of those atheist non-believers you mention that is the root of all evil? PS – never have and never will read the bible.
About students in christian schools getting better education:
I went to one from pre-school through graduation. Upon entering college I was behind in science and history due to the fact that I was taught a revisionist history (I really thought colombus found America) and creationist science (I could not explain the theory of survival of the fittest). These are gross disservices to our students and in my opinion should not be legal.
JohnQuest
CW, I wonder if you would feel the same way if the Bible were replaced with the Qu'ran or the Torah
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JohnQuest, The Torah is actually the first five books of the bible! As far as the Qu'ran is concerned comparative religion courses are already being taught in some school!
> I stand behind my comment from before....you can point out all the stuff you want.
Ok, let me get this straight. You state that the shootings in america's schools are caused by the removal of prayer.
Doc provides you with cases of school shootings where prayer is permitted. Thereby demonstrating it's a non factor.
You then state "I'm standing by my point."
If this is true, you're a moron or so deluded that you can't even acknowledge when you're wrong. I hope this isn't the case.
> Using bible teachings will improve thinking? Uh... have you READ the bible?
Isn't it odd that churches don't talk about all of the bible, only the cherry picked good stuff? You'd figure that if it was all divinely inspired it all should be read aloud equally. Funny eh?
And if they had concluded the Quran should be taught you'd be up in arms.
That makes you a hypocrite sir. And obviously not understanding the difference between "what is good for me" vs. "what makes for a good idea'.
Amen.
Atheist's rule the world.
illuz
Atheist's rule the world.
------
I think you may be on to something here! Understand Jesus proclaimed Satan to be the prince of this world!
John 12:31 KJV
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Feel free to read that in its full context if you like! Just one last word! Satan himself is NOT an atheist! He KNOWS without any doubt that God is real! But it is NO accident you proclaim atheists rule the world!
And, how is this going to help our children compete against their global peers, in job performance, job creation, understanding and defining public policy and any other aspect of real life?
"And, how is this going to help our children compete against their global peers, in job performance, job creation, understanding and defining public policy and any other aspect of real life?"
Are you saying that people who actually attempt to follow the bible's instructions on life, say, like Jews, are somehow disabled in their ability to "compete against their global peers" in "job peformance," "job creation," and "understanding and defining public policy" and "any other aspect of real life?"
@Israel,
I'm no expert, so correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Orthodox Jews have handicaps in the global labor market due to the many rules and laws about common things like clothes, food storage, when you can work, etc.?
JohnQuest
And, how is this going to help our children compete against their global peers, in job performance, job creation, understanding and defining public policy and any other aspect of real life?
------------
How exactly does teaching evolution accomplish any of those goals?
@Steve the real one,
"How exactly does teaching evolution accomplish any of those goals?"
You mean other than better foods through agriculture and better health through medicine?
Also, It's not just about evolution, but the science, math, and critical thinking that all support evolution.
Nonimus
@Steve the real one,
"How exactly does teaching evolution accomplish any of those goals?"
You mean other than better foods through agriculture and better health through medicine?
Also, It's not just about evolution, but the science, math, and critical thinking that all support evolution.
---------
Is that evolution or the results of research? It appears that word's meaning is actually being "evolved and stretched"! Maybe you don't mean it but you are implying there is NO critical thinking, math, and science in Christianity. I am betting the folks who started schools (like Harvard) and hospitals (Christians) would loudly proclaim you wrong!
@Steve the real one,
"Is that evolution or the results of research?"
How about the results of research in evolution? Research in evolutionary biology and knowledge of the Theory of Evolution drive much of the improvments in agriculture and medicine.
How does evolution impact my life?
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=47
"...you are implying there is NO critical thinking, math, and science in Christianity."
Perhaps, I am, yes. I'm not saying there are 'no Christians who know math, science, and critical thinking'. However, if you are saying that these things are taught in "Christianity" proper, I would have to disagree. Where in the Bible is the discription of Calculus? Or the Theory Gravity, Atomic theory, etc.?
Isn't Christianity "not of this world?"
> Is that evolution or the results of research?
It's obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. You're as obvious as a player shouting "Go Fish" in a poker game.
Research is based off of established scientific prinicpals. As such, things like immunology are based off evolution and research at the same time. Perhaps a remedial grade 8 science class will assist you in your staggering void of knowledge in the subject.
Bob.
> Is that evolution or the results of research?
It's obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. You're as obvious as a player shouting "Go Fish" in a poker game.
Research is based off of established scientific prinicpals. As such, things like immunology are based off evolution and research at the same time. Perhaps a remedial grade 8 science class will assist you in your staggering void of knowledge in the subject.
--------------–
So, your saying I'm only 1/2 wrong? Thank for suggesting the 8th grade science class. I could also suggest a 2nd grade sunday school class but what's the point? I know you are a smart guy and you're probably are a good guy! All that is fine. Just not enough to get to Heaven. I often pray for all of you guys! Your eternal home is your choice! I have no clue how you can look around at creation and refuse to believe there is no creator and all of this is a vast massive accident! When science tells you how massive the galaxy, much less the universe is, look me up! Until then, it is Jesus for me!
> So, your saying I'm only 1/2 wrong?
No, I'm stating that you have no clue what you're talking about. Perhaps reading my comment again will help comprehension.
> Thank for suggesting the 8th grade science class. I could also suggest a 2nd grade sunday school class but what's the point?
I agree, what is the point? Why would I go and learn about what some people have decided a book should mean to me? Why would I want to learn from people who have made a decision on something for which they have no good reason to think. Furthermore, it only takes casual observation to note that faith has led several people to the wrong conclusion. How can faith then reasonably be relied upon as a "guiding force" for the nature of God?
> I know you are a smart guy and you're probably are a good guy! All that is fine. Just not enough to get to Heaven.
Yep, it isn't enough. God made me to do exactly what he wanted me to do (no free will) if you believe he's omnipotent and omniscient. He imbued man with deficiencies and then punishes us for them. How silly.
> I often pray for all of you guys! Your eternal home is your choice!
Choose to believe in vampires. Go ahead. Choose to believe in them. Why can't you reasonably?
Choose to believe in Muhammad. Go ahead. Choose. What's that? You can't?
That's the same boat I'm in. I cannot believe in things that I don't have evidence for. You know why? Because it prevents all sorts of nonsense from floating in. It's sort of like an intellectual filter.
> I have no clue how you can look around at creation and refuse to believe there is no creator and all of this is a vast massive accident!
I have no clue how you can conclude that it's an accident when you nor I understand the processes behind it. Perhaps there is a God. However, there is no sound logical reason to believe in one. Just because "I don't get how this works" doesn't mean there's a God.
> When science tells you how massive the galaxy, much less the universe is, look me up! Until then, it is Jesus for me!
That's a silly position. "Because we don't know everything, I'll believe in a God." It doesn't make any sense. It's as valid as saying "I'll believe in a great cosmic octupus until science discovers everything." Isn't the more intelligent position to say "I don't know how this has occured, perhaps there is something, but until I see evidence either way, I'll have to conclude that I don't know."
Plus, don't you think it's odd that God reveals himself to primitive men and women who generally were illiterate, poorly educated and unaware of the world, yet hasn't revealed himself publically now that we have the tools to properly investigate claims.
Makes you wonder...
JohnQuest, There is 66 books you may read for yourself. Here's a few samples ...
The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Proverbs 2:5
Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Proverbs 3:7
The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Proverbs 9:10
He that walketh in his uprightness feareth the LORD: but [he that is] perverse in his ways despiseth him.
Proverbs 14:2
A wise [man] feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
Proverbs 14:16
The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.
Proverbs 15:33
By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil.
Proverbs 16:6
The fear of the LORD [tendeth] to life: and [he that hath it] shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil.
Proverbs 19:23
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.
Job 28:28
The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.
Psalms 111:10
Now Imagine, John what you'd learn if you read all the surrounding passages to the above.
Amen.
Some 21st century reality for the citizens of Kentucky:
. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482
New Torah For Modern Minds
Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment.
2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg, Ludemann and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan se-cts.
The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hit-ti-tes, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html
For added "pizz-azz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "fil-icider".
Current RCC problems:
Pedo-ph-iliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!
3. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Current problems:
Adu-lterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,
Yes reality, and we all come from a cosmic egg, because scientific theories are set in stone as history has proven.
Think infinity and recycling with the Big Bang exp-ansion followed by the shrinking reversal called the Gib Gnab and recycling back to the Big Bang repeating the process on and on forever. Human life and Earth are simply a minute part of this chaotic, stochastic, expanding, shrinking process disappearing in five billion years with the burn out of the Sun and maybe returning in another five billion years with different life forms but still subject to the va-garies of its new local star.
Let's not forget to add "miserable, sad, angry, non-believers" to that list.
As one senator put it, it is just pandering to the religious. Why not put another class for math or science? Math and science is real. There is not one shred of evidence there is a god.
Don't spend precious educational money on a myth.
Our children will need to compete with the rest of the world. They won't be much compet_ition if they believe in talking snakes and zombie Messiahs.
Wake up people! God has outlived His usefulness.
Cheers!
Not one shred of evidence of a God??? What are you standing on??? I know, I know the world pop out of nothing and then we pop out of that.............Talk about needing a education.....Read Darwins black box.....Thanks
@Jeff,
Wasn't "Darwin's Black Box" written by Michael Behe and weren't his ideas of a 'theory' shown to be compatible with astrology, horoscopes and such, in the Kitzmiller v Dover trial?
@Jeff
You said: "Not one shred of evidence of a God??? What are you standing on??? I know, I know the world pop out of nothing and then we pop out of that.............Talk about needing a education.....Read Darwins black box.....Thanks"
You mean "Darwin's Black Box" written by Michael Behe ? The darling of irreducible complexity?
In the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial, Behe gave testimony on the subject of irreducible complexity. The court found that "Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large." – Wikipedia
Creationists keep bringing it up, I guess in hopes of impressing someone...
Intelligent design is a bust.
There is no evidence for there being a god.
Cheers!
How do you spell miserable? D? A? V? you can figure out the rest.
Sad, sad, sad.
It all depends on how they are going to approach the teaching.
The course should be akin to an ancient literature course. Treat the Bible in the same way as one would treat Beowulf. Study the structure of the writing, what the metaphors and allegories reveal about the culture that wrote them, examine the historical impact of the stories on western culture.
Just don't turn it into sunday school and try to pass it off as "The Truth".
But of course, it will not be a cultural anthropologist who teaches the course from a scholarly perspective, it'll be some devout bible belt baptist.
@Doc Vestibule
Did you note where each student would be allowed to bring their own bible? This isn't going to be a study on Christianity's impact on the world. This will be, as you fear, a Sunday class.
What about the Muslims or Hindus will they get a class of their own? If not, isn't this government selecting one religion over another?
As I always do, I enjoyed your comment!
Cheers!
I agree, whole heartedly Doc. When I read this I thought, oh yeah, another attempt to put religion into schools by conservative Christians. This IS pandering to the religious, one religion specifically. Fundies simply don't get it. It is public school not a religious school and some of the students are not Christian but do they care...absolutely not! I have no issues in believing in Deity but this is completely different. It's simply another way to get "their" interpretation of the Divine in public schools, nothing less.
Excuse me, which version are you writing about? King James, if so you could as easily teach Shakespeare for English construction. Are you talking about the Greek and Roman and Arameic scripts? If you use the King James you are studying a dead language. So, a fine kettle of fish, this is.
Hey Doc, totall agree with your post... If you treat it as literature than heck, it's a great read. If they force it down kids throats as "the truth" than there's a problem. In the article it also says he wants students "to have an opportunity" to take a class on the bible. As long as that means its not mandatory, I have even less of a problem with it. If it interferes with public school teaching, than I have a huge issue with it.
Agreed. How about a class about freedoms, as in freedom of and freedom FROM religion. Seperation of church and state is not an option in a public school, unless as you say it is taught from an objective point of view. Our students would be better served with more options for classes about technology, math, science, language skills, even money management...
Thank you Senator Joe Bowen, from
http://KingJamesBibleSociety.org
Nice way to fleece the taxpayers out of more money.
The King James Bible is based on corrupt texts, mistranslations, and blatant editing, including changing the gender of Biblical figures such as Paul's associate Junia. Why anyone would wish students to study it when better, more accurate translations are available is beyond me.
Actually I think teaching the bible and the quran would be a good idea, give students an understanding of the two, maybe make them less prone to being recruited to either side.
Making the study of the Bible and it's evolution, it's numerous edits, it's contradictions, it's mistakes and it's outright lies is the best way possible to make religion a thing of the past. GO KENTUCKY!!
Don
Nice way to fleece the taxpayers out of more money
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How so? Where does it say more teachers will be hired, more school or class rooms will be built?, More admninistration, more staff? Please show me where the article states that! As as said before nothing but hatred for anything Godly! Pure and simple!
ellid, you posted "The King James Bible is based on corrupt texts, mistranslations, and blatant editing, including changing the gender of Biblical figures such as Paul's associate Junia. Why anyone would wish students to study it when better, more accurate translations are available is beyond me."
Tell me when you've ever picked up Jesus' wisdom and read it in your life? For, if you did comprehend wisdom, you would never have written such nonsense.
Why you folks reject wisdom, is beyond my comprehension.
THIS IS FANTASTIC!!!!! GO KENTUCKY!!!! This is the something our schools have been missing for decades....when they took prayer out of the schools our schools started going down hill.
Kentucky has a Democratic House (D58–R42) and Governor. This is symbolic legislation only. Don't get excited....
A religious text has no business in a public school. If you want your children to study the Bible, do so on your own time.
Do any of these lawmakers realize that there is more than ONE (christian) religion in Kentucky?
OK, so long as they study every other religious text that's prominent today.
If they truly teach Bible history I might be OK with that. Less than 1% of "believers" could pass a test on the Bible's history. They know virtually nothing about the Councils of Nicea, the Books removed from the Bible, the 14,000 changes made in the Bible that we know of, the history of the Church, the complete lack of evidence as to the life and person of Jesus, the culture and life of Bronze Age peoples (the folks that bought into the Jesus tale), and all the fauz pas in the Bible (e.g. the world was created 6,000 years ago). I became an atheist BECAUSE I STUDIED BIBLE HISTORY.
Had no idea you weren't allowed to pray in school. Which of course you can. I hope you don't think everyone in lentucky Public schools is a christian. God help us from you insecure christians who need the sate to validate yourselves.
The schools in this country are going downhill because their math and science level is pathetic not to mention lack of motivation from students. What good a prayer would do if a kid can't count?
If you have any worry about out kids lagging Chinese and Indians in almost every field, don't support wasting our precious tax dollars on reading religious books. Do that at home if you want.
But make sure the schools have places for the Muslims to wash their feet before prayer...
Yaaaaayy!
The country is on the path to becoming like the countries that hate us.
Theocracies suck!
CW my brother! God bless. Let me add something to your post. IMHO, the major issue was never taking prayers out of schools. There was something much worst than that. More than enough Christians stopped praying at home!
Sybaris
Yaaaaayy! The country is on the path to becoming like the countries that hate us. Theocracies suck!
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Which is exactly why NO ONE is trying to create one here! How in the world is a Christian class the path to a theocracy? The true issue is the atheist's absolute HATRED for anything Godly! You seem to all be well educated people yet funny how you seem to forget THIS country is a representative republic (as per the US Const-ittion)! Any mention of God and you fly off the handle with THEOCRACY! THEOCRACY! Well educated does not seem to always equal smart!
and here most people thought religious fundamentalism was a thing you only saw in the middle east... *no*
ellid
A religious text has no business in a public school. If you want your children to study the Bible, do so on your own time.
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Would you mind sharing your thoughts with proponents of the teaching of evolution and atheistism? I submit, Christianity has just as much place in the public square as anything else!
> You seem to all be well educated people yet funny how you seem to forget THIS country is a representative republic (as per the US Const-ittion)!
You seem to forget that no law may be enacted that is against the consti-tution of the United States. Even if the majority of the population feels that it's a good idea. The seperation of church and state is there for a reason. To prevent anyone from applying their own subjective beliefs onto others who may or may not share them.
The reality of the situation is that this will never pass legal muster and will end up on the floor. A better question is why are tax dollars being spent on something obviously flawed.
> Which is exactly why NO ONE is trying to create one here! How in the world is a Christian class the path to a theocracy?
When a goverment supports a religion above others, it's one step closer to a theocracy. Welcome to logical thinking Steve.
While Chinese children are kicking our children butts in international math and science test, our elected officials want to introduce theology to the education system. Now that is gonna takes us at the cutting edge of the 21st century in terms of research, development and innovation. Yeah, they are gonna need a lot of prayer indeed.
Bob.
> Which is exactly why NO ONE is trying to create one here! How in the world is a Christian class the path to a theocracy?
When a goverment supports a religion above others, it's one step closer to a theocracy. Welcome to logical thinking Steve.
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Logical thinking? Hardly. Hysteria and vile hatred for anything Godly? Absolutely!
>Logical thinking? Hardly. Hysteria and vile hatred for anything Godly? Absolutely!
Really, then prove my statement wrong. If a goverment supports one religion over another, it is one step closer to a theocracy if it did not do so in the past.
Prove it wrong. I challenge you.
Bob.
>Logical thinking? Hardly. Hysteria and vile hatred for anything Godly? Absolutely!
Really, then prove my statement wrong. If a goverment supports one religion over another, it is one step closer to a theocracy if it did not do so in the past. Prove it wrong. I challenge you.
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No problem, as soon as you PROVE a proposed social studies class that would use a Bible as a text is government support of one religion over another!
> No problem, as soon as you PROVE a proposed social studies class that would use a Bible as a text is government support of one religion over another!
Sure. If the school is publically funded, it is mandated through the government. Ergo, if the bible is being taught to the exclusion of other faith based books, it is a violation of the const-tution.
Now answer my question like you said you would and stop dodging.
ellid, are you kidding me? Children have a variety of studies to choose. Put Jesus' teachings back on that list.
** CW writes: "*** "THIS IS FANTASTIC!!!!! GO KENTUCKY!!!! This is the something our schools have been missing for decades....when they took prayer out of the schools our schools started going down hill." ***
It is hilarious to listen to faith driven people say how our country is in decline because we have left God out of our lives. Let's talk about reality for a moment. According to the CIA's website regarding the demographics of the United States, just under 80% of the population are Christians while only 4% have no religion. It is PRECISELY that overwhelming Christian majority who are responsible for electing our politicians into office. So if you really believe that our country is upside down, guess who is to blame. Yep, that's right.
Now onto Kentucky, they should enjoy it while it lasts until the Supreme Court strikes it down.... you know... the same Supreme Court Justices that are selected and approved by the same politicians that the Christians elect into office.
As for teaching the Bible in schools, I'm all for it as long as they spend equal time on teaching Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Shintoism, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc, etc, etc. In fact, this would be awesome because then students would get to see how ridiculous all of them are when they can see them all side by side.
To illustrate this further, ask yourselves: How many times have you attended a Mormon Temple? What about a Muslim Mosque? What about a Hindu Temple? What about a Jewish Synagogue? How can anyone possibly know for certain that you've found the "right" religion while not experiencing the others that millions upon millions of others find to be their salvation? If you haven't, then you are the person that sits there and insists that Pepsi tastes better than Coke, but you have only tried the Pepsi and never the Coke. Yet, you will be steadfast in your belief that Pepsi is better despite having no conclusive first hand experience to prove otherwise. Thus, the ENTIRE argument is invalid.
When you come to the realization that if you were born in Iran that you would have the EXACT same zeal for Muhammad and Allah that you do for Jesus and God, then that will be a big awakening for you. If you were born in India, you'd have the same zeal for Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma that have for Jesus/God. If you were born in Tibet, you would have the same zeal for Buddha that you have for Jesus/God. So what does that say about the book you worship (when you wouldn't have worshiped it based solely on geographic location of birth and religion of your parents)? To deny it is to deny the truth. After all, the Truth Shall Set You Free.
Peace.
Praying in school isn't illegal! They won't lock you up if you decide to pray. Who prays in school anyway? That's lame...I only went to church to pick up girls anyway. The lessons that the preacher attempts to teach you on Sunday is irrelevant to today's society almost all the time. The Bible is merely one of Aesop's fables. Pray if you want, but get over it if nobody else does!