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February 11th, 2011
07:55 AM ET
Kentucky Senate passes bill to teach Bible classes in public schoolsFrom CNN Louisville, Kentucky affiliate WLKY Frankfort, Kentucky - Bible classes could be taught in Kentucky public schools under a bill that's made it halfway through Kentucky's legislature. State Senator Joe Bowen wants Kentucky public school students to have an opportunity to take classes about the Bible. "No doubt about it, the most important book ever written and obviously, it's had so much influence on our society and all of western civilization," Bowen said. Last year, former State Senator David Boswell introduced the same bill. It passed the Senate, but died in the house. Bowen defeated Boswell last November. Read the full story from CNN Louisville, Kentucky affiliate WLKY.
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It's part of history and literature. Idk why people are getting so worked up about it. It's either you believe it or not.
First Prayer of the Continental Congress, 1774
O Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee. To Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give. Take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!
Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.
Amen.
Reverend Jacob Duché
Rector of Christ Church of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
September 7, 1774, 9 o’clock a.m.
What is your point? Do you really believe that everyone there believed every word of a typical invocation? Research the private letters of founding forefathers to see their actual personal views.
Just because all the private schools are teaching religion and blowing the public schools away with those crazy better performance reports, we should not follow them down this path of distruction. We need to pretend the Bible dosn't exist, just like we do with God and maybe it will all go away.
Whenever this argument comes up and Christians start stating that we were founded as a Christian Nation I have to admit I take joy in blowing their minds by showing them Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli which was read aloud by John Adams to the US Congress. Article 11 states:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
The bottom line is that public schools are to educate our children. Believer or not their may be some useful moral lessons in the bible, but that does not mean that it should be taught in school. School budgets are low enough; don't burn money on teaching religion in school. If you are religious and really want to raise your child as a Christian then teach them at home, take them to church, send them to Sunday School. Since when is public school supposed to be a place for teaching morals and values. I personally don't believe the Bible is necessary for any of those lessons but I mention it because those who make the argument for religion in school always talk about morals, etc... I mean I don't ask the schools to teach my kids how to do laundry, make their beds, and so on. Certain things are just done at home. If Christian parents want to teach their kids Christianity then DO IT AT HOME. School is not a one stop shop to alleviate parents of all responsibility from teaching their children on their own. When it school kids should learn Math, Science, Literature, Foreign language, etc.... Every single University I am aware of teaches religious studies. If you yearn so badly for additional teaching on Christianity do it on your own time at a local college. DO NOT DO IT WITH MY TAX DOLLARS.
Just say "No" to Theocracy
Whenever this argument comes up and Christians start stating that we were founded as a Christian Nation I have to admit I take joy in blowing their minds by showing them Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli which was read aloud by John Adams to the US Congress. Article 11 states:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
The bottom line is that public schools are to educate our children. Believer or not their may be some useful moral lessons in the bible, but that does not mean that it should be taught in school. School budgets are low enough; don't burn money on teaching religion in school. If you are religious and really want to raise your child as a Christian then teach them at home, take them to church, send them to Sunday School. Since when is public school supposed to be a place for teaching morals and values. I personally don't believe the Bible is necessary for any of those lessons but I mention it because those who make the argument for religion in school always talk about morals, etc... I mean I don't ask the schools to teach my kids how to do laundry, make their beds, and so on. Certain things are just done at home. If Christian parents want to teach their kids Christianity then DO IT AT HOME. School is not a one stop shop to alleviate parents of all responsibility from teaching their children on their own. When it school kids should learn Math, Science, Literature, Foreign language, etc.... Every single University I am aware of teaches religious studies. If you yearn so badly for additional teaching on Christianity do it on your own time at a local college. DO NOT DO IT WITH MY TAX DOLLARS.
Hello..........., most colleges are supported with tax dollars. duh
If it was a religion class I would be more inclined to support this.
Just supporting the bible is a clear violation of the 1st amendment as schools are funded by the government therefore they should be of secular nature.
It is a elective class so you get to choose what you want to do, not the goverment. If you do not want to go to it, don't sign up for it. What is the big deal???
And if there were enough kids to sign up for an elective class in the Koran, would they offer it? If not, then it's wrong. Make it a Comparative Religions class and I have no problem with it.
'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'
"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner."
Amen brother..........Amen
Well having lived in Kentucky all my life and knowing how incompetent our schools are here, it's no surprise that Bowen is trying to get this through. I grew up going to church and reading the bible and once I actually read the bible, I noticed that even within itself it's contradictory. I won't bash anyone who goes to church nor what they believe, but I don't feel even as an elective it should be taught in the public school system. That is what the church, bible study, family, and even private schools are for. Kentucky has enough problems with being near the bottom of education in all levels (particularly math, science, and language arts). I can imagine the first time a teacher (even from an educational standpoint) teaches something that can be interpreted differently by even Christian religions. Who is also to say within the next few years that if this does indeed pass that the state government does not mandate it to become a required course? It just opens up more cans of worms than the state really is thinking about right now.
Normally we wait till the kids are in prison before we show them the Bible. This isn't American!!
Wonderful...so we can cut funding for music and arts but squeeze the turnip to propogate this tripe?
One day religion will be something people read about in history books and we won't have to worry about this stupid crap. I bet the great men who founded this country are probably rolling in there graves. Religion is responsible for millions and millions of deaths through out human history and probably millions more in the future. One day the human race will be religion free.....one day.
Oh, never do we get to the see the Athiestic God haters get so lathered up as we do when we mention putting the one true God back in our schools, or government or any other of the rightful places that he's been so unceremoniously kicked out of.
(The God of the Bible, in case you didn't know).
I've read this statement on a couple of posts...."Sure, read the Bible in our schools, that'll make people athiests.....that's what made me an athiest".
Liar, liar....pants on fire!! That's the most absurd, idiotic statement I've read so far. You're an athiest by choice, let's be honest here. You didn't read the Bible and then suddenly become compeled to reject the idea of a Creator God. That may be what you tell people, because then it takes the burden of responsibility off of YOU, and puts it on what you deem to be a foolish collection of myths of stories. But, we all know the truth........don't we??? You reject God because your "religion" of choice is "humanism". You're in control. You make you're own rules. No God is going to tell you how to live or what to do.
I'd bet you a year's salary that if there was talk about teaching the Koran, or Buddism, or Hinduism in schools all of the athiestic anti-God crowd would just be giddy. You see, those religions don't teach you that you're lost without Christ and dead in your sins and without hope. Those religions teach you that you just have to be "good" enough and you'll be OK. The Bible teaches you that "the wages of sin is death" and "Jesus Christ is the only answer" and people simply don't want to hear that.
To me it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we've missed it somewhere. Pre 1960s we had God and the Bible and prayer in schools. One small group of individuals comes along and decides that the way we've done things for years and years is suddenly wrong. We take God and the Bible and prayer out of schools and now chaos reigns. Kids bring guns and kill their classmates. Violence is commonplace. Drugs, knives, r-ape, assault on the teachers from their own students. Teachers are afraid to go to work. Yep, I'd say we need a little "love thy neighbor as thyself" taught in school again.
There's so much wrong with most of what you said that there isn't room to address it. The simplest example is the recent poll/test that showed that the average atheist and agnostic knows more about the Bible than the average Christian. They also had higher levels of education.
So you take one mans comments and completely decide for yourself that he has in fact never read the bible and is just saying that to defend himself against people like you. Leave it to a whacked out bible thumper to make grand assumptions based on absolutely ZERO facts. I guess you guys are used to doing this though.
@Observer...
Oh, you got the Atheistic pamphlet too huh?? The one that lists (in sequence) exactly what your responses need to be to dodge and avoid the argument at hand. Blah, Blah.......the average atheist knows more about the Bible....blah blah.....
And I always love the old...."there's so much wrong that I don't have time address it" line. Which is basically code for I can't find anything wrong with what you said, therefore I have nothing TO say, therefore I won't say anything, but I can't let anyone know that.
So, just what exactly is it that "most" athiests know about the Bible that believers are missing? What am I missing here? Do tell.
No.....I think I pretty much get it. God created the earth. God created Man. Man disobeys God and introduces sin into the world. God has plan to redeem man. God sends son (Jesus Christ) to the world to die a terrible, subst-itutionary death on a cross at the hands of the very men He came to save. If we believe Him and trust him, he'll rescue us from our sinful selves. If we reject Him, he'll reject us. One day, we die and we'll give an account to Him of how we lived our lives. We'll spend eternity in one of two places.
Yeah.....I think I get it....
I don't even know where to begin with this. Do you choose to view things from an entirely one-sided perspective? That is exactly what I got out of that long paragraph. My mother, who is of a non-christian or catholic faith, never understood the concept of committing whatever sins you pleased and then being relieved of responsibility the minute you hit the confessional. In hinduism and buddhism, you are what you do. Realize that you are speaking about religions that you most likely have NO knowledge or understanding of, nor do you care to understand as long as you can force feed everyone your own viewpoints, right? As an individual with friends and loved ones of many different faiths and those who are atheist or agnostic, doesn't christianity preach love and tolerance? All I see from you is close-mindedness. If you really think that our problems today are a result of the absence of religion in our education system, you are sadly mistaken, and there is most likely no getting ANYONE else's point across to you, other than your own.
Mark I challenge you to an open debate on these topics. I will be here all day. If you accept prepare to be absolutely slaughtered with intelligence. I guarantee I'll have you in tears by the end of the day because you will realize just how badly you have wasted your time trying to tell others "the truth".....I'll be waiting
@Kevin...
Slaughter me......please......slaughter me.....
@Mark......Lets do it. I'm always up for a good debate. I should warn you though, that name calling is not having a debate. I'm not saying you'll resort to this Mark, but I just want to warn you that if you would like to have a discussion about these topics we should BOTH approach it with an open mind. If not its just two kids fighting in the sand box. Anyway I'm here, I will let you start the discussion if you would like.
@mark
"One small group of individuals comes along and decides that the way we've done things for years and years is suddenly wrong."
And around the same time, a small group of people forced the Bible Belt kicking and screaming into racial integration.
Culture changes. Inst.itutionalized racism and se.xism were the norm at the same time as God was in schools.
Coincidence?
And since when are we moderated...lame...
I give myself free will; no god or man decides my own fate
Yes, it is the most important fable book ever wrote or told by man, but it has no place in education. I hope KY loses ALL federal funding once passed. Maybe people should look at want is wrong in the world and once and for all realize that religion of all kinds causes more hate and wars than another other one thing or any dictator as far as that goes. That is why we have a war on terrorism; they fight not to destroy the west but envelop into there religious law; no different than the christian crusades of old. We are headed toward a holy war and the only ones left standing will be the non-believers while those that prayed to there god for saving just die a senseless death.
Faith is important to many people in the world, to discount that is a serious mistake. I strongly feel that a balanced Comparative Religions course should be offered – indeed encouraged. If we don't understand other's beliefs, it becomes impossible to understand their actions and positions. Having a course that covers only one religion, however, is wrong in a public school system.
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
Psalm 14:1
For it is written: "As I live, says the LORD, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God."
Romans 14:11, Isaiah 45:23
It's your choice:
1. You can bow down and live with HIM forever, or
2. You can bow down in the SMOKING SECTION in eternal damnation.
It's your choice, God gave YOU the free will, you're in control, UNTIL...Judgement Day!
Please choose wisely...
The fool says in his heart, "there is no God."
Did you ever stop to reverse that logic and think you're the fool for believing in something no one can prove for thousands of years? Just wondering...
The Bible also supports slavery and the inferiority of women.
What's your point?
I give myself free will; no god or man decides my own
Observer, you make a lot of statements, but where's the proof?
@GoodNews-do you not have a bible or have you simply not read it and paid attention?
@Observer, that is not true. The Bible does not give approval to slavery or support inferiority of women. But by believing this, I know it is easier to turn your face away from it. My suggestion to all reading this and rolling your eyes at another "Jesus freak," (which I am), is to be as open-minded as you consider yourselves to be and actually read the Bible, cover to cover. And it is no quick task. Since it was written over a 1,500 year period, there is some history to learn to understand what is actually being said. It's clear, but you just have to understand what was meant at the time it was written to understand how it applies today.
Just because you don't want the Bible to have any merit, doesn't mean it doesn't. Truth is truth, regardless of whether or not you happen to believe it. Please come to the question of Christianity and faith without already having let someone else supply your answer. With an open mind and an open heart, you will be able to come to faith in the Savior of mankind, Jesus Christ, and it is my prayer that you do.
@Christfollower-My last comment with citations appears to be lost in "moderation" land, so I'll just reiterate my last post. Have you really not read the bible? That is the only possible explaination for the delusion that these attrocities aren't expressly condoned throughout.
Exodus 21:20-21 and Exodus 21:26-27
-Leviticus 19:20-22
-Leviticus 25:44-46
-Leviticus 25:39
@Christfollower
The Bible does indeed condone slavery.
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
Please note that these passages are from both the New and the Old Testaments.
As for the Bible's opinion of women:
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." -Genesis 3:16
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
-Deuteronomy 22:20-21:
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
-1 Corinthians 14:34
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
-1 Timothy 2:11
@Christfollower:
What good does it do to preach the Bible if you haven't actually read it? The Bible not only does not condemn slavery, it tells people how to treat THEIR slaves. The Bible also says that women are forbidden to talk in church and must ask any questions of their husbands. Please read it if you are using it to instruct others.
God WAS, IS and FOREVER will BE:
For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
Romans 1:21-24
@BR
Do your initials perchance refer to Bad Religion?
Thumbs up for Prof. Graffin!
From the comments on the post I am getting the feeling that religious people can't read...
@Doc Vestibule-That, or Being Realistic...take your pic. 🙂
I did not see the reason of why the bible study was taken away from the schools. Here is when our "alleged" freedom gets tested. Humanity has withdraw it self from God, pursuing our own beliefs and ideals. Lets turn to God and HE will turn to us.
Simple...the Establishment Clause.
Here's a state that's awash in burbon, tobacco, marijuana, horse racing, and paramutual betting. Seems like the perfect place to force feed students Biblical history written by fellows whose world view was confined to a space about the size of Kentucky.
Ignorant
You're right, John. It was rather stupid of me not to put marijuana first of the list. It is, after all, Kentucky's largest cash crop. Much of the state's law enforcement budget goes toward finding and burning those crops, most of which obviously takes place upwind from the capital.
It is not just kentucky, all the states are loaded with drugs, gambling, etc. You know what else they have all in common NO Bible.
..It is not just kentucky, all the states are loaded with drugs, gambling, etc. You know what else they have all in common NO Bible.
“We have grown in numbers, wealth, and power as no other nation.
But we have forgotten God.” – Abraham Lincoln
The Truth of America’s foundation was well put by Patrick Henry (Continental Congress, Governor of Virginia, Secretary of State under George Washington), a Patriot and a Founding Father of Our country said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ." – Patrick Henry
George Washington, father of our country, first President of the United States said: "You do well to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."
Thomas Jefferson, signer and principal author of the Declaration of Independence, third President of the United States, said: "The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus Christ and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in his discourses."
Not until America / Christians allowed this truth to be distorted or to be challenged under the guise and/or acceptance/tolerance of forced compliance with diversity and multicultural beliefs outside the Gospel of Jesus Christ have we "Americans" ever experienced such massive division and potential of implosion.
Thomas Jefferson was NOT a Christian. Read about how he edited all the nonsense out of the Bible and ended up with less than 50 pages.
Yes, indeed, the Jefferson Bible is a great read!
@ observer....we should check you brain and take out all the non sense...
@John: YEA! Cause instead of replying with factual information to refute his claim, it is wayyyyy better to make a response that depicts you as a confused child! Highfive for you!
And the Patrick Henry quote is misattributed. Theists are so quick to claim the founding fathers, but most were deists and cared nothing for specific religious dogma
.
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly.
-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800
Amen, thank you
2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land
This is America's / Christians only HOPE –
@James
John Adams, undoubtedly one of America's founding fathers, signed and ratified the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796 which opens up as follows:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.[3]"
Is that clear enough language?
Gentlemen,
Believe what you will, that's your right, just as I choose to defend the truth of Gods word and witness to The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Good for you Kentucky –