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February 15th, 2011
07:00 AM ET
My Take: Science and spirituality should be friends
By Deepak Chopra, Special to CNN For most people, science deserves its reputation for being opposed to religion. I'm not thinking of the rather noisy campaign by a handful of die-hard atheists to demote and ridicule faith. I'm thinking instead of Charles Darwin, whose theory of evolution has proved victorious over the Book of Genesis and its story of God creating the universe in seven days. Since then, God has been found wanting when measured against facts and data. With no data to support the existence of God, there is also no reason for religion and science to close the gap between them. Yet the gap has indeed been closing. Religion and spirituality didn't go away just because organized religion has been losing its hold, as suggested by showing decades of declining church attendance in the U.S. and Western Europe. Despite the noisy atheists, two trends in spirituality and science have started to converge. One is the trend to seek God outside the church. This has given rise to a kind of spirituality based on personal experience, with an openness to accept Eastern traditions like meditation and yoga as legitimate ways to expand one's consciousness. If God is to be found anywhere, it is inside the consciousness of each person. Even in the Christian West we have the assurance of Jesus that the kingdom of heaven is within, while the Old Testament declares, "Be still and know that I am God." The other trend is a growing interest by scientists in questions about consciousness. Twenty years ago, a respectable researcher couldn't ask daring questions such as "do we live in an intelligent universe?" or "Is there mind outside the body?" That's because materialism rules science; it is the core of the scientific worldview that reality is constructed out of physical building blocks - tiny things like atoms and quarks - whose motion is essentially random. When you use words like "intelligence" and "design" in discussing the patterns in nature, immediately you are tarred with the same brush as creationists, who have hijacked those terms to defend their religious beliefs. But time brings change, and next week my foundation is hosting a symposium in Southern California where the gap between science and spirituality will be narrow somewhat, not on the basis of religion but on the basis of consciousness. Outside the view of the general public, science has reached a critical point. The physical building blocks of the universe have gradually vanished; that is, atoms and quarks no longer seem solid at all but are actually clouds of energy, which in turn disappear into the void that seems to be the source of creation. Was mind also born in the same place outside space and time? Is the universe conscious? Do genes depend on quantum interactions? Science aims to understand nature down to its very essence, and now these once radical questions, long dismissed as unscientific, are unavoidable. My conference, called the Sages and Scientists Symposium: The Merging of A New Future, is only one in a wave of gatherings through which hundreds of researchers are working to define a new paradigm for the relationship between spirituality and science. It is becoming legitimate to talk of invisible forces that shape creation - not labeling them as God but as the true shapers of reality beyond the space/time continuum. A whole new field known as quantum biology has sprung up, based on a true breakthrough - the idea that the total split between the micro world of the quantum and the macro world of everyday things may be a false split. If so, science will have to account for why the human brain, which lives in the macro world, derives its intelligence from the micro world. Either atoms and molecules are smart, or something makes them smart. That something, I believe, will come down to a conscious universe. Agree or disagree, you cannot simply toss the question out the window. It turns out that the opposition of science to religion is a red herring. The real goal of a new science will be to expand our reality so that spiritual truths are acceptable, along with many other subjective experiences that science has long dismissed as unreliable. We are conscious beings who live with purpose and meaning. It seems unlikely that these arose form a random, meaningless universe. The final answer to where they came from may shake science to its core. I certainly hope it does. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Deepak Chopra. soundoff (1,568 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Next »
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Editor's Note: Deepak Chopra is founder of the 
CNN should be ashamed for publishing anything by Deepak Chopra. He offers no real insight into science. He gave up science 30 years ago when I left the real world of medicine for the "alternative" world. I hope CNN got paid for Mr. Chopra's blog, which is nothing more than an advertisement for his symposium. The symposium is much like his medicine- lacking in any true substance. CNN- mr. chopra is a dangerous man who preys on people by giving them false hope and stealing their money. Please gain some journalistic responsibility and stop publishing his drivel.
Time is Infinite and everything needed for God's existence also exists. Should be obvious that the scientific world lost it objectiveness and became biased by organized religion long ago. This author is making a valid point and without a doubt all the nay-sayers will crawl out of the woodwork to add misinformation to the discussion, sometime just because they are incapable of distinguishing between a comparative statement and a literal one. It may be just because they think they have some view point that gives them the all knowing advantage. It’s really not all that hard to understand the Omega point after all it is really just the completion of the what all things inevitably will proceed to. If you understand this then you are just what this article is about. If not then please consider what is being said more carefully before voicing an opinion. It’s called wisdom.
“Religions die when they are proved to be true. Science is the record of dead religions.” Oscar Wilde
Father Forgive them, for they no not what they do or say.
I do. And I think that both Chopra's twaddle and your invisible sky daddy are pretty silly delusions to be held by thinking adults.
If you're not interested in rational discourse or intelligent debate, why are you posting here? Posting comments like "Forgive them father" is condescending and rude, especially since not everyone subscribes to your particular brand of theology.
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
-Stephen Roberts
What is your dad going to do about it?
sleight of hand quackery with his heathentronics, rich false prophet by jove.
Pfffft....this is a load of hippy babble so he can impress lost chics into getting in bed with him. Dude, we've all played this card in college. And to answer old Depak's final statement...what if your soul purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others. How meaningless is that?
MrHanson, I agree there is value in love, individuality, self accountability etc, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't random. Flowers have beautiful colors and scents in order to attract pollinators such as bees. That doesn't mean that it is any less beautiful.
We give it meaning because of itself. Just because it has meaning doesn't mean it is caused by a higher power.
Why are we so arrogant as to be convinced that we are so special that there must be more to us then meets the eye? Humanity is only as special as we make ourselves, but that doesn't make us any less special, i just disagree that there is some kind of higher purpose
Science has not triumphed over religion so mightily as he suggests. This man is deeply misinformed. Check out http://www.reasons.org. There's plenty of scientific proof for God out there. It makes sense, if He created the universe then we should see His fingerprint the more we study it and that is the case.
You must be insane. That website is full of nonsense and illogical conclusions. You probably can't see that since your mind is so clouded with delusion, but, yep, nothing good at that site.
From that site:
"The big bang theory, based on the accu mulated data of centuries, points to a supernatural beginning"
http://www.reasons.org/controversial-topics/big-bang/cosmic-design-beginners-and-experts-guide-big-bang-sifting-facts-fictions
After making that statement they do nothing to actually prove it. Typical!
WOW ! What genius! This looney tunes just discovered what is in the first verse of tthe Bible.
burn the witch
Science and religion are both bastions of intellectual dogmatism. Unfortunately the hierarchies of both these groups have attained such a level of arrogance as to have closed their minds to foreign concepts, not even trying to entertain them in their own mind for the sake trying a possible new route to their ultimate truth. Philosophers have always been the leaders of new thought although to them its always been the same idea down through the centuries, and they have been patiently waiting for the dogmatists to catch up. The idea is so simple to be invisible to the average intellectual. One. One universe, one energy, one consciousness, one field. Evolutions cruel parameters gave rise to individualism and selfish ruthlessness. One, means its not necessary,that we can realize that everything we have done has only been in our own self interests, ruthless, cutthroat and that it doesn't have to be that way. One means we can rise above our innate animal nature and evolve. Mr Chopra is part of this movement and as a philosopher should be respected and studied.
Science is based on observational data and confirmed theory. You can recreate any science experiment yourself to confirm the results, provided you have the right equipment. Religion, not so much.
That's fine, but what he's talking about has nothing to do with science and everything to do with faith. They are founded on entirely different axioms. In order for spirituality to be science, it would have to be possible to disprove it.
No, science is not dogma and it is not closed to other concepts. The entire notion of science is girded by an openness to new facts, new evidence and new theories. It's convenient to characterize science the way you have but it is not supported by any rational basis.
Well put.
Steve,
Just to sort of piggy back onto what you are saying here... I think what most people fail to see, and where so much confusion comes into play is that "I" am not a thing (object/noun), "I" is a constantly in flux process (an action/verb). Furthermore, the unfotunate fact is that, as a concsiousness it easier for me to comprehend and communicate my experience of the outside "physical" universe when I think of things in terms of "objects". But, in reality most of those "things" are acually just states of energy in various processes...
Rob, that sounds very Buddhist (i.e., the idea of everything being in a constant state of change/impermanence).
Who created the mathematical truths? They certainly seem to exist in a realm beyond space and time, and independent of the human mind. If mathematical information has no material basis, than why could we not admit that a non-material realm might exist that could contain consciousness? How is that the wave function wich stands at the basis of Quantum mechanics, is an information wave with no material "support" whatsoever, and yet dictates how matter should behave?
Why do the fundamental laws of nature have to have a creator? Isn't it equally possible that they have always existed?
Math does not determine how reality behaves. Math is a model, created by humans, that does an awesome job at predicting reality. When you throw a ball in the air, the ball is not doing parabolic calculations to try and figure out where it should go next.
If the fundamental laws of nature and mathematical truths have always existed, where have they existed and how can information exist outside space, time and matter? If information can exist beyond the physical world than reality cannot be limited to our Universe(s).
I would say that math is not created by humans, but discovered by humans, in the same way that new planets are discovered. Certainly, 1+1=2 before any humans existed, even though the dinousaurs had no idea. And how does the ball "know" where it should go next? Even Feynman couldn't figure that one out!
Sadly, this is self-serving (profit-making) hogwash. It represents an almost complete abandonment of the rational ideals upon which the United States was founded (perhaps CNN could reprint Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" as a rebuttal.) Its primarily purpose is to provide a plausible sounding foundation to the hucksters who make a living selling delusions to the gullible.
These pseudo-science spiritualists have been with us since the dawn of science. Their special talent is cleverly weaving words that sound "sciencey" together with spiritual terms. There will always be an audience for it and thus profit to be made from this racket.
"Noisy Atheists"? Subtle insults to those who embrace reason and evidence? Although there are no absolutes when it comes to personalities, most of the Atheists I speak with regularly are certainly not "noisy". They find deep satisfaction in existence and do not look upward for more after this life; which, to me at least, seems an incredibly selfish thing to do.
When you disagree with someone and have no proof to support your argument, make backhanded insults.
i don't have enough faith to be an atheist!
Typical of those who stand to lose profit when it is exposed that their worldview is based upon nothing provable. Mr. Chopra... are ad hominems really how you want to convey your stupid message? =-P
Greg
"i don't have enough faith to be an atheist!"
You are confusing the two meanings of faith. There is religious faith, which is the belief in something despite what the evidence suggests, and there is confidence-based faith, which is the belief that what the evidence suggests is the actual case.
Just to clarify my post, in the absence of irrevocable evidence absolutely proving the existence or non-existence of an afterlife, the position that most accurately reflects the openness of true scientific thinking is agnosticism. Categorically dismissing any possibility whatsoever that something could be true (afterlife) because you don't believe it to be true, absent of definitive evidence for or against it, is no less dogmatic or 'faith-based' than any religion.
"...the position that most accurately reflects the openness of true scientific thinking is agnosticism."
True. But in practice, how do agnostics behave and conduct their daily lives? I'm inclined to think that most of them don't worship and glorify mythological, imaginary beings on a regular basis... or ever.
Maybe, while Agnostics don't necessarily worship a God per se, they don't adamantly deny even the possibility of some being/force that people would refer to as "God", and don't categorically deny even the possibility of an afterlife either. To do either would be unscientific and dogmatic, in the absence of definitive proof that neither exist.
Spirituality/religion is to physical cosmology as alchemy is to chemistry. In other words, it's nonsense and it has no basis in fact or scientific theory.
This article is akin to rambling psycho-babble.
You attack clouds. You are firm in your beliefs. And are spiteful. And are also very misunderstanding of what he is saying. Quantum physics has truly started suggesting we create our own realities. We do it all the time. Even as something as visible as moving furnature in your home,you change your existance in that room. In quantum theory we exercise our minds and brain in either negative or positive ways. And weve found atoms behave more like a thought than a "thing" popping in and out of existance like they stream in and out of our minds. Humans are reality creating machines. And ive struggled my whole life against people like you who dont understand. Through every dark age is an inevitable renaissance. And the world will begin to understand what being a human truly means. But i believe you wont understand a thing i said. Unless a big rock bumps into you and sets u on a broader path.
Lacking an understanding of science does not mean you get to decide what modern research"means". Assertions that new advances in physics some how support religious or spiritual beliefs is simply wrong, and an insult to science. Trying to cram data from inredible experiments into personal beliefs is at best dangerous and it just blows my mind that people take Chopra to be an expert in anything other than selling books and making money.
Aristotle insisted until the day he died that the earth was flat. He was not stupid for this, rather it was the people who decided to believe him.
Time for Chopra to write another "7 Laws to make money off gullible people" book
Noisy atheists?!? What planet are you living on? Religion is shoved down peoples throats almost everywhere you turn, while you would have to attend a university talk, or actively seek out articles and discussions on message boards to ever hear a peep about atheism.
It was an apparent attempt to predefine the atheists that would inevitably respond to his silliness as merely noise, not to be listened to at all.
The writer needs to fairly read creationism science.
There is no such thing. There is creationism and there is science. There is no creationism science.
There is NO creation science. Try to find one peer reviewed paper on the topic. I dare you
LOL, I saw what you did there! You implied that creationism and science are at all related! Funny stuff!
Oh, for crying out loud. Those are two words that are mutually exclusive. Talk about pseudo (psycho) science...
Jesus Christ is Lord and King!!!
Prove it!!!
Witches, Heathens. We must burn them. The Bible tells us so!
Please do not place me in a postion I do not wish. When I walked the earth I walked not among kings of the land. I walked among the poor and the needy and helped and healed them. I did not ridicule others, I did not harass them. Live by example
King of what?
Right on! It's the only thing that makes sense. The proofs are infallible...but most people don't care to examine them - they'd rather just be critics.
Interesting that you say the 'proofs are infallible' but will not even state what those proofs are.
Go to mexico, you will find Jesus.
Amen Pastor Evans! Praise God that He has revealed the truth of why men and women are they way they are so clearly in the Bible.
Psalm 10:4
4In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek him;
all his thoughts are, "There is no God."
Psalm 14:1a
1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
Romans 1:18-32
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
1 Corinthians 1:18-20
18For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written,
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Proverbs 14:12
12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but its end is the way to death.
John 14:6
6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
People, please.... Repent and believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ! There is no hope anywhere else. There is certainly no hope within yourselves.
Nor do I consider quoting versus written by the fallible hand of man to be "proof" of anything.
Sir, (AmzedinFL)
The reality of the reason you speak like this is right here in Rom 1:24-25. It says: 24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator
Sir, it appears you are choosing to believe a lie that is against the truth of God. You are stating that the Bible was written purely by fallible man. This is a lie, and the Bible clearly states this. In your unbelief, God is giving you up to these lies that you are now believing. I know you will not acknowledge this externally, however, if you can think about it without the bias of having a natural hatred against God, then you will admit this is true. Only God can show man his natural depraved condition and his utter lack of hope in saving himself apart from Jesus Christ. Man can not come to this conclusion on his own. This is why you do not believe it currently. It is folly to you. Read the Bible. Please.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God[b] may be competent, equipped for every good work.
2 Peter 1:21
21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:16
16"Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
2 Samuel 23:2
2"The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me;
his word is on my tongue.
Cook, you're doing it again. Quoting me your book, which just says the same thing that so many other religions say: believe in my particular brand of my particular religion this book tells you to believe in, or you're going to hell. Truly offensive to anyone whose religious beliefs are different from yours, and whose personal brand of religion (and book they read it from) may very well state that YOU'RE the one going to hell because you don't believe in their particular brand of religion... From your singularly intolerant/bigoted posts, I'm also guessing that you're entirely ignorant/unknowledgeable concerning any religion except the particular one you believe in. If so, I'm guessing you also grew up in a very sheltered sort of environment.
And to everyone else who is Christian, I'm not knocking your religion at all, just this person's incredible level of bigotry towards anyone who happens to have a belief system different from his/her own (or may have the same overall values in terms of compassion, love, etc., but within the framework of a different set of specific religious beliefs). It seems like the product of a sheltered existence, and a very narrow-minded, dogmatic approach to religion in general.
Also, word to Cook: attempting to shove your personal brand of religion down other people's throats is not a method that is likely to get you any converts. And that seems like pretty basic knowledge to me.
Cook,
"You are stating that the Bible was written purely by fallible man. This is a lie, and the Bible clearly states this."
So, the Bible is true because it says it is? Anyone can say that. The Quran does. The Book of Mormon does. The Scientology book does. Even The Bridges of Madison County does.
Pastor Evans you are soooo wrong!
THOR IS GOD AND KING! He tolerates Jesus because he's a distant cousin through the third wife's marriage to that other guy. He wasn't crucified by the Romans....he was crucified by Thor who carries a large hammer.
Now here's the great thing with religion and beliefs based on....what evidence exactly?
You have no more proof of your god than I have of Thor. I stand by: THOR IS GOD AND KING!
Can you "prove" otherwise?
Sir,
Christianity is the only religion that offers an Atonement for SIN!!!! Christianity is nothing like the other religions. All other religions besides true Christianity are false man-made religions.
Christianity is the only divinely created religion that says MAN CAN DO NOTHING TO ATTAIN HIS SALVATION.
All other false religions say that man must DO, DO, DO, DO something in order to appease the god of said false religion.
Why can you not understand this? I'll tell you why: You want *CREDIT* for contributing to your salvation. You want to be able to say "I did something good that earned my salvation." That is why you hate Christianity and hate the true and living God of the Bible. The God of the Bible says there is NOTHING in man that is good. Nothing in man can contribute to his salvation.
Isaiah 64:6a
6 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
Sir, salvation is of the Lord and the Lord only. Until He reveals that to you, you will continue in your ways.
Yes, this way of thinking is NARROW. But sir, you are very prideful to think that I grew up sheltered. In fact it was quite different than that. I was at one time just like you, just like the world. Until God removed the veil from my eyes and showed me how wicked I was, did I then come to these truths I am sharing with you.
If you pause a bit and let go of the building anger that you are feeling inside and think rationally again, you will come to a understanding that what I am saying is true.
I am sorry that this offends you. The Gospel is offensive. Any true Christian will vouch for this.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.
-–
Take care sir, may God reveal to you His truth in His son Jesus Christ.
Cook, you presume to understand all of my own motivations and reasons for stating what I do. That's the marker of a person who is frankly overly conceited–did God personally appoint you as his omnipotent knower of what it is in everyone else's heart? You demonstrate yourself to be a truly arrogant person.
Furthermore, in your ramblings you demonstrate yourself not only to be lacking any real knowledge of other religions, but to be incredibly ignorant of your own as well. It seems your shallow understanding is limited to parroting versus and only ascribing your own narrow-minded, sheltered interpretations of them.
For example, you ascribe little or no meaning to a person's actions in determining his/her own outcomes in this life or in the next. Yet, the puritans who settled this country and were also Christians believed that God would not help anyone who didn't help themselves. And did you ever hear of the Protestant work ethic? These are interpretations of Christianity that stand in radical opposition to your own interpretation of the religion. But I suppose that in your arrogance, you consider your own narrow-minded interpretation of the verses that you read to be the only interpretation. Indeed, you mark yourself as a person completely lacking in the virtue of humility. Then again, according to your own radical views, man's actions do not matter at all, and the only thing that matters is that a person believe that Jesus Christ was the some of God–every other belief in any other virtue or action considered important by any other interpretation of Christianity is meaningless in your narrow-minded and, quite frankly, dangerously radical view of your own religion.
Also, I'd like to make note of Cook's assertion that Christianity says: "Christianity is the only divinely created religion that says MAN CAN DO NOTHING TO ATTAIN HIS SALVATION. " I just want to ask other Christians (who I'm assuming have a much less radical view of their own religion): do you believe this is true or that the Christian bible even SAYS that it's true??!
Another one of Cook's quote: "The God of the Bible says there is NOTHING in man that is good. Nothing in man can contribute to his salvation. " I don't believe that the bible says this at all, and wonder what traumatic events happened in your life to produce such a twisted view? So let me get this straight: you're saying that since NOTHING in Mother Theresa (given that she's a human being) could possibly have been good, and all of her charitable actions towards others were absolutely meaningless in the eyes of God? Do other Christians here agree with this view?
Cook, I suppose that in your eyes, God looked no more kindly upon the actions of Mother Theresa than he did upon the actions of any other rapist, murderer, etc., so long as the rapist/murderer proclaimed and believed that Jesus Christ was the son of God. That's pretty much what you're stating, given that you say that man's actions are meaningless in God's eyes since man is wholly evil and has no good (a statement, by the way, that I believe is in direct contradiction to SO MANY verses of the bible itself). And after stating something so radical and twisted to the point of dysfunctionality, you wonder why others don't "see things your way". Unbelievable...