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Architect to remove ‘crosses’ from Toledo elementary school
February 17th, 2011
11:18 AM ET

Architect to remove ‘crosses’ from Toledo elementary school

An architect is removing a design element from a new elementary school that looked liked the Christian cross.

"I actually have not noticed a cross," said Mona-Mae Mitchell. "Is that a light pole?"

Some have never noticed the design at the Toledo Public Schools' new Beverly Elementary School construction site at the corner of Glanzman Road and Detroit Avenue, the former location of old Bowsher High School.

Others say the designs look like Christian crosses.

Read the full story on FOXTOLEDO.com
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Church and state • Ohio

soundoff (101 Responses)
  1. Anonymous

    Plus signs look like christian crosses, thus, math should be removed from schools too.

    February 17, 2011 at 8:27 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      ....in reading...how often does the t come up?

      February 17, 2011 at 11:45 pm |
  2. thang nguyen

    one time later in the end of your life,you will meet this Cross,and then,don' t cry !!!
    Who denies the Cross in this life, will never see the cross in his eternal lamented life ever for ever.

    February 17, 2011 at 7:16 pm |
    • Ang

      Not a popular message, but true! I will never, in my arrogance and self-pride, deny the cross. I am thankful for the cross. Thank you Jesus!

      February 17, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
  3. Topkitty

    What a waste of money. America is made of all religions so a cross only represents an influence in our society.

    February 17, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
  4. mobetta

    OHhhhhhh............ BULL! Besdies, those supposed "crosses" look like "T's" – as in TOLEDO??? Maybe they stand for Toledo Turkeys?

    February 17, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
  5. W247

    the whole design to me looks like a table.... what I think people see as "Crosses" are actually the table legs leading up to a flat top. Go figure!

    February 17, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
  6. Enoch

    The devil doesn't like the Cross. In fact, it is fearful of the powerful Cross. Long live the Cross, enemy sissies!

    February 17, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
  7. Rick

    If it was a swastika, an upside down cross or a star of david, somebody would have complained!

    February 17, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
  8. NL

    If you think this is silly the Navy has a building near San Diego that looks like a swastika from the air. Now, that's offensive, eh?

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/234527

    February 17, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
  9. Steve the real one

    Maybe we just have to remove the "t:" from ELEMENTARY school as well. Let me see ELEMENARY school. How's that look? Some of us pronounce it that way anyway! Just an observation!

    February 17, 2011 at 4:16 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Before anybody gets offended, I am just being humorous here!

      February 17, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
  10. Towanda

    This is too stupid. What a crock. Do we have nothing better to do with limited funds that look for crosses? I guess now we'll have to replace most all the electric poles and all the street signs (they look like crosses too) and all the, I better stop – it's endless.

    February 17, 2011 at 3:58 pm |
  11. Kevin

    I don't get it... it doesnt look anything like a "cross".. not even the variants (coptic, maltese etc).

    To me, it looks like an engineering section detail accidentially got incorporated into the brick design...

    February 17, 2011 at 3:57 pm |
  12. kramses86

    So should the Government shutdown the American red "Cross"? Some people are just plain bored. They need something to protest, march, and shout for!...

    February 17, 2011 at 3:57 pm |
    • Tim

      The American Red Cross symbol looks markedly different from the Christian cross. You're being ignorant on purpose to make a point, and it's not even a good one. The tail on the Christian cross is longer, and is suggestive of where Jesus's feet were. The American Red Cross symbol is just a + sign. There was a reason why they DIDN'T make it look like the Christian cross. In fact, it's actually an adaptation of the Swiss flag.

      February 17, 2011 at 4:12 pm |
  13. Bob.

    The concept of removing these is silly. Where do we draw the line.

    "Is that a T or a cross?" "Is that an X or a cross sideways"

    The person complaining should be slapped for idiocy.

    February 17, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
  14. Steve the real one

    MarkinFL
    I have yet to see another religion besides Christianity try so hard to get its symbols put in public places. Examples of unchallenged symbols please?
    -----
    You misunderstand me. The cross where ever it maybe challenges the soul. We think of its meaning, we are challenged to live up to what it stands for as Christians. For others it reminds them of the Christ they claim not to believe in. That is what I mean! Yes one could say the same about other symbols! But the cross get my attention and yours to albeit in different ways!

    February 17, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
  15. hilltop

    Remove the cross because its a design flaw not because of what it represents. Why do christian symbols engender so much unreasonable fear among the elite?

    February 17, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Christian symbols on a public school tend to imply that Christianity is somehow special to that school, above other religions or no religion. How would you feel if it were a Jewish or Muslim symbol, or god forbid Wiccan?

      February 17, 2011 at 1:52 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Hilltop,

      The answer is easy! That one symbol challenges! Some feel if it were removed there would be no more challenge!

      February 17, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
    • hilltop

      mark,
      The cross was a design flaw. It should be changed for that reason and that reason alone. If it were placed intentionally by a christian group, then the outcry would be understandable, but this was the fault of the architect and the school building inspectors. I have yet to hear of any protest against religious symbols in public places other than christian ones.

      February 17, 2011 at 2:06 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      I have yet to see another religion besides Christianity try so hard to get its symbols put in public places. Examples of unchallenged symbols please?

      February 17, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Steve the real one

      Hey Steve...Haven't chatted much with you recently. I hope that you have been well...?

      I was curious, as I know your strong Christian faith. I'm curious as to how you would feel if public schools had Islam's 'star and crescent' symbol on them. Along with Shinto's, Judaism, etc...?

      In other words, do you believe that 'public schools' 'should' have religious symbols on them...? And if so, do you think that they should be 'only' the Christian 'cross' or would you allow other symbols too...?

      Peace..

      February 17, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Hello Peace, I hope you are well also!

      This is what I believe and it may suprise you and some of my Christian friends. As I first pointed out the cross is a challenge not just for Christians but for all humanity. In short to answer you, they should not have to have religious symbols on them. Hold on my Christian brothers and sisters let me explain why!
      The cross and everything it stands for means nothing if it is not first received in a heart! Building are not Christian, Jewish, Muslim or anything else. The people who occupy the building may be but not the building!! If Christ is not in my heart it matters not if the cross is on a building! I hope that helps!

      A question for you, if you don't mind. Should anything that looks like religious symbols automatically come down? In this case it will but I would like to you have your opinion. Thanks Peace. always good to talk to you!

      February 17, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Steve the real one

      You Said: "Hello Peace, I hope you are well also!"

      Thanks Steve !

      You Said: "This is what I believe and it may suprise you and some of my Christian friends. As I first pointed out the cross is a challenge not just for Christians but for all humanity. In short to answer you, they should not have to have religious symbols on them. Hold on my Christian brothers and sisters let me explain why!
      The cross and everything it stands for means nothing if it is not first received in a heart! Building are not Christian, Jewish, Muslim or anything else. The people who occupy the building may be but not the building!! If Christ is not in my heart it matters not if the cross is on a building! I hope that helps!"

      Actually, that is a very thoughtful answer, and I do understand your perspective. And I would think that your Christian brothers and sisters would understand your perspective.

      You Said: "A question for you, if you don't mind. Should anything that looks like religious symbols automatically come down? In this case it will but I would like to you have your opinion."

      No problem, I will try and answer as best I can given your question. When you say..."Should anything" etc..etc... That is a pretty broad statement or question to answer within any kind of 'reasonable' frame-work.

      Anyway, I think that given the context of our conversation...i.e... 'public schools,' then I would say 'yes' I do believe that there really shouldn't be any overt religious symbology of any kind on the school. I could certainly understand having the symbols in a 'comparative world religions' class. In that very controlled environment.

      So, in general... yes, again... in society, in the 'public domain' I think it best (in general) to keep the overt religious symbols out of the public domain, just for one reason out of many, due to the fact, that if religions are allowed to put their symbols 'everywhere' you would probably find a 'symbols war' in the public domain by 'all' the different religions. As you can see, just that 'one' reason alone would give pause to be careful (in general) about symbols in the public domain.

      There are other reasons, but I hope that *my opinion* is helpful to you.

      And, always good talking with you Steve...

      Peace...

      February 17, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Peace2all,

      Thanks for the response. Great talking with you as always! I understand your perspective as well.

      February 17, 2011 at 4:41 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @hilltop

      To-@MarkinFL...You Said: "The cross was a design flaw. It should be changed for that reason and that reason alone. If it were placed intentionally by a christian group, then the outcry would be understandable, but this was the fault of the architect and the school building inspectors."

      Either way, whether it was a 'design flaw' or...'intentional' really doesn't matter, if you think about it in the overall scheme of things in relationship to this issue.

      The architects recognize that a 'christian cross' is really not supposed to be on the front of 'public schools.' That's why they are changing it.

      You also said to @MarkinFL...."I have yet to hear of any protest against religious symbols in public places other than christian ones."

      Me neither, as supposedly the majority of the U.S. claims to be Christian (87 %...or something like that), which means the majority(Christians) feel in a lot of cases compelled to put up their symbols.

      However, if Islam's 'star and crescent' began to spring up on the front of public school buildings, what do you think would happen...?

      Yep, I think you probably understand the 'outcry' you speak of in your earlier assertion, would be to put it mildly... an 'understatement.'

      Peace...

      February 17, 2011 at 8:08 pm |
    • Lanfear

      Maybe they just don't want people to show up on Sunday morning and wonder where the f%ck is everyone?

      February 17, 2011 at 8:36 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Lanfear

      LOL ! Well, I can certainly see how that could be yet another reason, why they are removing it.

      Peace...

      February 18, 2011 at 1:38 am |
  16. David Johnson

    I think if anyone sees crosses, then they ought to come down. This is a public school, open to kids of all faiths.

    We need the kids to get jazzed about reading, writing, arithmetic, and science. Not a long dead carpenter.

    Cheers!

    Cheers!

    February 17, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
    • Enoch

      Then, why not remove the "+" sign from your arithmetic...let the children learn only '-', so that they gain something valuable

      February 17, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • mobetta

      OHhhhhhh............ BULL! Besdies, those supposed "crosses" look like "T's" – as in TOLEDO??? Maybe they stand for Toledo Turkeys?

      February 17, 2011 at 5:51 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Okay, David, stop trying to make the teacher’s job more difficult by making them remove Christian symbols….
      You want arithmetic without symbols?

      Arithmetic….so they can’t use ‘3’ because it might remind the kids of the Trinity….another number reminds them of the ‘4’ Evangelists…the square can do that, too….there goes science and math…just to appease a few ‘who’?; and the triangle can remind them of the ‘eye of God symbol’…there goes geometry for American students….

      Other symbols that could bring the atheists to their knees… the anchor, the conch, the fish, the lotus, all kinds of stars….differing numbers of points and colors…better check the floor and wall tile for hidden religious patterns….

      Oh, my, our flag has many stars, Star-of-Bethlehem or Epiphany Stars on it which represents Jesus' birth and incarnation! What’s a teacher to do…take out the pledge of allegiance to the flag!? Yes, and the red in the stripe stands for the blood of Christ that He shed for us and the white for purity of Love which is what we should all have for Him and our neighbor.

      No more art that contains the flag and stars….no more butterflies or eagles in art or science study…. the butterfly has long been a Christian symbol of resurrection; because it soars upward, the eagle is a symbol of the resurrection or ascension of Christ; by extension, the eagle symbolizes baptized Christians, who have symbolically died and risen with Christ.

      Keep pushing for removal of our symbols and see how stupid Americans look and become if you think we are falling behind in all fields of study now….we will all look like the ‘well rounded’ idiots we are if we let a hand full of ‘who?’ run over the rest of us.

      February 17, 2011 at 6:27 pm |
    • Lanfear

      Catholic Mom... you are completely out to lunch. I would explain it to you but I'm afraid I might lose brain cells in the process.

      February 17, 2011 at 8:34 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Lanfear,
      Sorry you have so few with none to spare.

      February 17, 2011 at 11:51 pm |
    • myklds

      I will not be convinced of Atheists dedication or conviction to degrade, undignify or even illiminate religious symbols. Not by removing crosses in schools; Not by removing religious synages in public transfort; and not by making their own version of Christmas billboards.

      I'm convinced, only, when they throw away every single dollar bill that they have. Until they do that, they're nothing but bunch of hypocrites and should stay in the fox hole where they belong.

      February 19, 2011 at 7:45 am |
  17. pete

    sounds kinda silly to me

    February 17, 2011 at 12:03 pm |
  18. Ron

    Maybe it is, maybe it's simply a design placed there by the builder. Don't care. It's a waste of money when there have got to be other priorities more important than this. btw, I'm not Christian, I'm Wiccan.

    February 17, 2011 at 11:55 am |
    • JohnQuest

      Ron, I agree it's a waste but how does your religious leaning make a difference. Besides, what the difference between Christian and Wiccan?

      February 17, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
  19. Reality

    It looks like the simple removal of four bricks will do the job quite nicely.

    February 17, 2011 at 11:37 am |
  20. JohnQuest

    And, they thought this was better than buying books?

    February 17, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • Lanfear

      I personally find it offensive

      February 17, 2011 at 8:29 pm |
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