home
RSS
February 21st, 2011
06:00 AM ET

Prayers from the air

By Jim Spellman, CNN

Colorado Springs, Colorado (CNN) — They call Colorado Springs “Little Jerusalem” for good reason.

Christian churches from mega to micro dot this city nestled against the foothills of the Rocky Mountains, and prayer is an integral part of the lives of many of the worshipers who fill those pews.

Most prayers start on the ground and are sent heavenward. But helicopter pilot Will Sanders is taking prayer to the air by flying pastors up to the skies to pray down on the people below.

“I believe prayer works, and I want to take prayer warriors up to pray for their community. Inspire them to see it from a different angle, from a different view,” he said.

Sanders earns a living running Colorado Vertical, giving tours of the area in his Raven II four-seat helicopter. About once a month he opens his chopper up to local pastors, who fly over their churches and areas of the city they think are experiencing hardship and pray for them.

“Pastors know their areas, they know where people are hurting, where people need prayer, where people need help, and I can take them over those areas,” Sanders says.

He says that flying is a profoundly spiritual experience.

Helicopter pilot Will Sanders takes local pastors up in the air to pray over Colorado Springs.

“I see God’s creation. I do believe God created this world, and I see that in nature. When I fly I see the fingerprints of God.”

On a sunny winter day, he meets two pastors from Vanguard Church, Alan Briggs and Jonathan Madrid. It’s Briggs’ third trip and Madrid’s first. As evangelical Christians, they said prayer is an essential part of their faith.

“I care so much for our city that I’ll do anything, and so just starting with prayer is what I think we need to do,” Briggs said.

“I think the first thing we need to be doing as a city, as a body of believers, is to get down on our knees and pray,” Madrid said.

Sanders with pastors Jonathan Madrid, left, and Alan Briggs of Vanguard Church in Colorado Springs.

The tower clears the helicopter for takeoff, and a few minutes later we are cruising over the city. The prayers fly over the tinny audio of the headset microphones, with Briggs and Madrid taking turns.

“We pray that you bring the needs of the city to these churches that they may be able to help.”

“We pray that you bring this city together.”

“We pray for the Air Force Academy and Fort Carson.”

“We pray over this land that it would be dedicated to you.”

“Lord I pray for the high schools in our city, that your light may shine in those schools.”

We bank to the left and pass over the offices of The Independent, an alternative free weekly newspaper that has been critical of the evangelical community.

“We pray for The Independent and particularly publisher John Weiss. We pray for a partnership between such a sometimes hateful organization,” Briggs says.

A minute later, after a bit of quiet, he adds, “That we would be marked by our love and not by our judgment.”

Sanders heads west towards Garden of the Gods - a stunning orange rock formation popular with hikers. Pikes Peak is clearly visible to the south.

“Lord, when people see Pikes Peak and Garden of the Gods, I pray we would see you.”

We head back toward downtown, and Briggs turns to me to ask if it would be OK if he prays for me. I give him the thumbs up.

“Lord, we pray for Jim and getting to meet him today. I pray that you give him protection, that you keep the hand of safety on him,” he said.

As the airport comes back into sight, the pastors get in as many prayers as possible before we land.

“I pray you would drive out the spirit of consumerism in our city.”

“Lord I pray for more Spanish speaking churches.”

“We pray for military families to be taken care of.”

The voice of an air traffic controller interrupts the flow of prayers and clears us to land.

The cockpit is quiet as we gently touch down.

Back on the ground, Madrid is smiling widely.

“It was great. A different perspective for sure. As I saw the city, so many things came to me,” he said.

“It just gives you a whole new perspective on people, I think. You see these different areas of the city that you never would have thought to even pray for before, so I think praying from a different view is huge. I think it’s awesome and we’re blessed to be able to do that sort of thing.”

The pastors head back to their church as Sanders shuts down the helicopter.

“I was given a gift. I’ve been so blessed. How many people have a helicopter?” Sanders said. “I do believe in the power of prayer, and I want to cover this whole community with it”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Colorado • Pastors • United States

soundoff (558 Responses)
  1. PeterVN

    Mary,

    Many essentially good people pray to god but still suffer horrible misery from diseases and disasters anyway. Is your god deaf to them, does he play favorites, or does he just have limited bandwidth?

    February 23, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • Me Thinks

      Mary

      PeterVN

      Actually, Mary, I did prove that a god with the absurd characteristics described by Christian claptrap such as your own does not exist. You are merely too stupid to understand that

      My COMMENT PeterVN Peter, I am disappointed in you. I thought we could agree to disagree, without labeling one another as "stupid" etc.

      It makes me lose respect for all else you have to say. Therefore, I guess the conversation ends here. I love debate, but when it stoops to this level, it is better to walk away. Peace to you just as well.

      February 22, 2011 at 11:02 am | Report abuse | Reply

      Mary

      PeterVN

      Actually, Mary, I did prove that a god with the absurd characteristics described by Christian claptrap such as your own does not exist. You are merely too fu-cking stupid to understand what was presented to you.

      February 22, 2011 at 3:27 pm | Report abuse |
      PeterVN

      Mary, I hope you don't have kids. The world will be better off if your genes don't propagate.

      Nice...very nice.

      February 22, 2011 at 7:18 pm | Report abuse | Reply
      Gordon Beall

      Man, I can understand disagreements, but the personal shots taken by some are really below the belt. I guess what comes out the mouth says alot about a person. A real man you are, PeterVN..ever get your mouth washed out with soap?

      February 22, 2011 at 7:45 pm | Report abuse | Reply
      PeterVN

      Gordon, eat sh-it, you spineless wimp.

      February 23, 2011 at 8:17 am | Report abuse |

      Me Thinks Mary isn't answering...so why all the posts dated the February 23, 2011 ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS OVER AGAIN?

      February 23, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
  2. PeterVN

    Mary, the inconsistencies that you present are clear demonstrations that your god is neither perfect, nor omnipresent, nor omnipotent.

    The requirements for a god such as the Christians advertise are that stringent, and are not met in this case. Therefore, your god does not exist. Your beliefs might make you feel better, but they are not well-founded, and they are plainly absurd.

    You are also exhibiting behavior that falls within what is known as "confirmation bias"; you are selecting those parts of what you observe that you think support your belief, while ignoring the many obvious facts that contradict it.

    February 23, 2011 at 10:33 am |
  3. PeterVN

    Mary,

    "peace" would be the last thing to expect to come from your religion of horror, given its sordid, violent history and all the awful horrors that the bible (buy-bull) guides its gullible sheeple to do. See skepticsannotatedbible dot com

    February 23, 2011 at 10:31 am |
  4. Gordon Beall

    Man, I can understand disagreements, but the personal shots taken by some are really below the belt. I guess what comes out the mouth says alot about a person. A real man you are, PeterVN..ever get your mouth washed out with soap?

    February 22, 2011 at 7:45 pm |
    • PeterVN

      Gordon, eat sh-it, you spineless wimp.

      February 23, 2011 at 8:17 am |
  5. Mary

    PeterVN

    Actually, Mary, I did prove that a god with the absurd characteristics described by Christian claptrap such as your own does not exist. You are merely too fu-cking stupid to understand what was presented to you.

    February 22, 2011 at 3:27 pm | Report abuse |
    PeterVN

    Mary, I hope you don't have kids. The world will be better off if your genes don't propagate.

    Nice...very nice.

    February 22, 2011 at 7:18 pm |
  6. sadie

    Thank you God for allowing us to pray to you. Thank you for forgiving us our sin and giving us the opportunity to know you and show you to others.
    For 23 years I was an atheist. I hated and mocked all things and people related to God. One day God listened to the prayers of friends and family and I was given the choice to believe. Now I know there is a God, no doubts at all, ever.
    Standing on the outside looking in it is impossible for a person to understand how a Christian can follow and trust the Lord. They are blind. That is why we, as Christians need to model our life to reflect Jesus to everyone we meet. If we don't then how will they ever see to believe?
    I am 27 now and am finally at peace with my life and my past... all because of God. Thank you God.

    February 22, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
  7. Mary

    HotAirAce

    So, it is more ridiculous to doubt, question, seek more information or say "we don't know – yet!" than it is to attribute the unexplained to an imaginary being?

    But let's depersonalize this. How about you come up with a couple of fully doc-umented medical miracles? Medical outcomes that the attending physicians publicly state, with no ambiguity and not just off-hand "it must have been god" type feel good statements. Cases where the doctors will state that it was a god, not their care, expertise and probabilities, that saved their patient. I don't think you will find any, except perhaps for those claimed by the rcc as part of their beatification process, and for same unexplained reason, they won't release the details of their investigation or even the names of the doctors involved. They too try to get away with "just believe us."

    MY CoMMENT.... HotAir I am becoming fond of you,lol!

    I will try and find you some doc-u-mented cases. I recall seeing some on one of these threads, I just don't remember where, will have to search. I won't use any Catholic ones, either. Thank you for letting us depersonalize this,lol.
    Makes things easier, and I apprecaite your civil debate 🙂

    February 22, 2011 at 11:30 am |
  8. Mary

    PeterVN

    Actually, Mary, I did prove that a god with the absurd characteristics described by Christian claptrap such as your own does not exist. You are merely too stupid to understand that

    My COMMENT PeterVN Peter, I am disappointed in you. I thought we could agree to disagree, without labeling one another as "stupid" etc.

    It makes me lose respect for all else you have to say. Therefore, I guess the conversation ends here. I love debate, but when it stoops to this level, it is better to walk away. Peace to you just as well.

    February 22, 2011 at 11:02 am |
    • PeterVN

      Actually, Mary, I did prove that a god with the absurd characteristics described by Christian claptrap such as your own does not exist. You are merely too fu-cking stupid to understand what was presented to you.

      February 22, 2011 at 3:27 pm |
    • PeterVN

      Mary, I hope you don't have kids. The world will be better off if your genes don't propagate.

      February 22, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
    • PeterVN

      Mary, "peace" would be the last thing to expect to come from your religion of horror, given its sorry, sordid, violent history and all the awful horrors that the bible (buy-bull) guides its gullible sheeple to do. See skepticsannotatedbible dot com

      February 22, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
  9. drod

    Prayer=Guaranteed Fail

    February 22, 2011 at 10:56 am |
  10. joe

    YOU TUBE: FATHER'S SACRED NAME

    Once at channel, watch "THE DESTROYER."

    February 22, 2011 at 10:05 am |
  11. Carmliv

    First and last prayer – and most important one for everyone, everywhere: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
    Simple and one size fits all.

    February 22, 2011 at 9:35 am |
  12. Reality

    Why prayer is futile:

    Inherent Free Will and Future belong to all the thinking beings in the Universe. This being the case, god (if there is one) is not able to alter life and requests/prayers will not be answered. Statistically, your request might come true but it is simply the result of the variabiliy/randomness of Nature.

    So put down your rosaries and prayer beads and stop worshiping/revering cows and bowing to Mecca five times a day. Instead work hard at your job, take care of aging parents, volunteer at a soup kitchen, donate to charities and the poor and continue to follow the commandments of your religion or any good rules of living as gracious and good human beings.

    February 21, 2011 at 11:52 pm |
  13. Carlotta DeMarino

    Atheists always call people of faith liars. They are blinded by thier own selfishness. I would not waste my time trying to convince them of anything. They are usually afraid, and thats why they come to these blogs to hang with thier own kind. They are insecure and unsure of themselves. Deep down inside, they know they are missing something. They just won't admit it. I know I live with one.

    February 21, 2011 at 11:44 pm |
    • evolvedDNA

      Carlotta.. you are wrong. I can tell you that I am an athiest because I see so no evidence for god. However if god was proven at some point I would change my mind. And let me tell you what that proof would be.. have an amputee in room, with this wound fully exposed.. have people saying prayers around him from a distance so we can see it all, then, if his leg or arm what ever grew back instantly I could accept that as evidence of a supreme being at least. Know, tell me truthfully, if you would accept any evidence to counter your claims of the existence of god. lets see who has the closed mind.

      February 22, 2011 at 12:38 am |
    • Marconi Darwin

      Well, that is a lie. Atheists do not always call 'people of faith' liars. In fact, they do not even do so most of the time.

      Most of the time, we call you gullible. Sometimes, even delusional. When you lie, we call you liars.

      February 22, 2011 at 1:04 am |
    • Lisa

      No, we often call you "intrusive" for delving into our lives to tell us we need *God*.

      February 22, 2011 at 9:04 am |
    • Sy2502

      Carlotta, could you kindly explain to me why your omniscient god needs you, a human, to tell him what he should be doing? Thank you.

      February 22, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
  14. Mary

    HotAirAce

    Nice try. This is not about me. This is about you getting away with an unsubstantiated claim in support of your unsubstantiated beliefs! You're claiming a modern day miracle -a miracle, if true, that could significanly change the way many, perhaps even myself, think about religion. A story that if false, helps to continue to mislead others to believe in the logically unbelievable. If you are not prepared to substantiate your claim, you should not have given it voice. But you did, so now the burden of proof is upon you, and no amount of deflection can remove that burden. But I suspect you know that virtually zero of any such claims stand up to the light of independent investigation and that you either know your claim is false or you don't have the courage of your convictions to allow an independent investigation. In other words, put up ot shut up!

    You are ridicolous, to say the least. If you don't believe my story, because I can't "prove" it, then just don't believe it. I really don't care. The claim is not flalse, and I know it, so whether you believe it or not is not important to me. I am not "getting away" with anything.
    I disagree that claims of this nature do not stand up to scrutiny. What planet are you from? The Twilight Zone?

    February 21, 2011 at 11:34 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      So, it is more ridiculous to doubt, question, seek more information or say "we don't know – yet!" than it is to attribute the unexplained to an imaginary being?

      But let's depersonalize this. How about you come up with a couple of fully doc-umented medical miracles? Medical outcomes that the attending physicians publicly state, with no ambiguity and not just off-hand "it must have been god" type feel good statements. Cases where the doctors will state that it was a god, not their care, expertise and probabilities, that saved their patient. I don't think you will find any, except perhaps for those claimed by the rcc as part of their beatification process, and for same unexplained reason, they won't release the details of their investigation or even the names of the doctors involved. They too try to get away with "just believe us."

      February 22, 2011 at 12:15 am |
    • HeavenSent

      HotAir, how about these for starters.

      Luke 17:30: "Even thus shall it be IN THE DAY when the son of man is revealed. . . (vs 31) IN THAT DAY . . . (vs 34) I tell you, IN THAT NIGHT . . ." Nobody in Luke's day thought it could be day and night at the same time! They thought the earth was flat! Luke was written around 65 A.D. How did Luke know something that others didn't know until the 16th century?

      Isaiah 40:22: "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH." How did Isaiah know in 700 B.C. the earth is round? They didn't discover the earth is round until the early 1500s when Magellan sailed around the world. How did Isaiah know something over 2000 years ahead ????

      Job 26:7: ". . . and hangeth the earth upon NOTHING." During the time of Job, it was believed a god named Atlas held the earth on his shoulders! Nobody believed the earth "hangeth upon NOTHING!" Job is the oldest book in the Bible! Written over 3500 years ago! How did Job know something that was IMPOSSIBLE to know during his day?

      Genesis 2:7: "And the Lord God formed man of the DUST OF THE GROUND, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul."

      Psalm 8:8: ". . . whatsoever passeth through the PATHS OF THE SEAS." After reading Psalm 8:8, so and so set out to locate these curious "paths in the seas." He discovered the oceans have paths which flow through them. He became known as the "pathfinder of the seas". How did David (the writer of Psalms) know, over 2,000 years ago, there were "paths in the seas"? David probably never even saw an ocean! HOW DID HE KNOW?

      Ecclesiastes 1:7: "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the water cycle of condensation and evaporation? The sun evaporates water from the ocean, water vapor rises and becomes clouds. This water in the clouds falls back to the earth as rain, collects in rivers, and makes its way back to the ocean. This wasn't known until Galileo in 1630! How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know this in 1000 B.C.?

      Leviticus 15:13: "And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in RUNNING WATER." God said to wash the infected flesh in RUNNING WATER. Leviticus was written around 1490 B.C.

      Job 38:19: "Where is THE WAY where light dwelleth?" How come Job didn't say where is THE PLACE where light dwelleth? Because light is always moving. How did Job know something in 1500 B.C.

      Ecclesiastes 1:6: "The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again ACCORDING TO HIS CIRCUITS." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the wind traveled within circuits? THINK ABOUT IT! How can these men, with their limited knowledge thousands of years ago.

      Proverbs 6:6-8: "Go to the ant. . . gathereth her food in the harvest." There was no evidence that ants actually harvested grain. Solomon had been right after all. . ." How did Solomon know that in 1000 B.C.?

      Proverbs 17:22: "A merry heart doeth good ..." How did the writer of Proverbs know that?

      Leviticus 17:11: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood." Exactly what the Bible said in 1490 B.C.!

      Don't you find that odd? What Moses wrote in 1490 B.C.? The books of the Bible, written thousands of years ago, by men with such limited knowledge, be so far ahead?

      The Bible says, "And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. . ." (Acts 7:22).

      February 22, 2011 at 2:33 am |
    • The Truth

      @HeavenSent: LOL... now you are quoting items from Terry Watkins who believes that Hell is an actual physical place located in the core of the Earth. He believes that Christian rock music is led by Satan. And are you ready for this... he believes that Santa Claus is really the devil!!!! (And no, sadly I'm not joking).

      Picking out just a few of these to illustrate how absolutely absurd this is and to further place your massive delusions on full display:

      Luke 17:30: "Even thus shall it be IN THE DAY when the son of man is revealed. . . (vs 31) IN THAT DAY . . . (vs 34) I tell you, IN THAT NIGHT . . ." Nobody in Luke's day thought it could be day and night at the same time! They thought the earth was flat! Luke was written around 65 A.D. How did Luke know something that others didn't know until the 16th century?

      #### LOL, YOU THINK THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT UNTIL THE 16TH CENTURY?!?!?! HILARIOUS! SEE BELOW######
      >
      >

      Isaiah 40:22: "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH." How did Isaiah know in 700 B.C. the earth is round? They didn't discover the earth is round until the early 1500s when Magellan sailed around the world. How did Isaiah know something over 2000 years ahead ????

      #### FIRST OFF, THE EARTH IS A SPHERE, NOT A CIRCLE (AND YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE). SECONDLY, IF YOU REALLY THINK THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE EARTH IS ROUND UNTIL 1,500 THEN YOU HAVE MORE ISSUES THAN I PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT. PYTHAGORAS IN THE 6TH CENTURY B.C. TALKED ABOUT THIS. AND HOW DID THEY KNOW... PROBABLY FROM STUDYING THE STARS.############
      >
      >

      Ecclesiastes 1:7: "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the water cycle of condensation and evaporation? The sun evaporates water from the ocean, water vapor rises and becomes clouds. This water in the clouds falls back to the earth as rain, collects in rivers, and makes its way back to the ocean. This wasn't known until Galileo in 1630! How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know this in 1000 B.C.?

      ##### DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ALL RIVERS RUN INTO THE SEA??? LOL SOME RIVERS FLOW INTO LAKES AND OTHERS FLOW INTO THE GROUND AND OTHERS JUST DRY UP BEFORE REACHING ANOTHER BODY OF WATER. I GUESS GOD DIDN'T KNOW THAT#######
      >
      >

      Leviticus 15:13: "And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in RUNNING WATER." God said to wash the infected flesh in RUNNING WATER. Leviticus was written around 1490 B.C.

      #### EVER HEARD OF A RIVER? WHAT ABOUT A NATURAL SPRING? GO AND CUT YOUR FINGER AND PUT IT IN STALE DIRTY WATER OR PUT IT IN FAST FLOWING WATER AND SEE WHICH FEELS BETTER. THIS IS COMMON SENSE. MOREOVER, THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS AND ANCIENT CHINESE WERE MANUALLY BRINGING IN WATER VIA IRRIGATION AS FAR BACK AS 6,000 BC... OR ABOUT 4,500 YEARS BEFORE LEVITICUS. #####
      >
      >

      Job 38:19: "Where is THE WAY where light dwelleth?" How come Job didn't say where is THE PLACE where light dwelleth? Because light is always moving. How did Job know something in 1500 B.C.

      #### THE HINDUS, BUDDHISTS, GREEKS, ETC ALL UNDERSTOOD THIS. IN FACT, IN THE RIGVEDA, THEY EVEN MENTION THAT LIGHT IS MADE UP OF THREE PRIMARY COLORS WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN IN THE EXACT SAME TIME FRAME.#######
      >
      >

      Keep on letting others think for you!

      Peace!

      February 22, 2011 at 3:31 am |
    • HotAirAce

      @HeavenSent

      As TheTruth has pointed out, many if not all of your claims are not true or are not examples of the bible containing new truths. You are merely re-interpreting ambiguous and in-error statements based on your narrow christian view (neglecting what other societies knew) and modern science (please show me a paragraph or a picture in your book-of-silliness that unambiguosly shows the water cycle). The writers of the bad fiction known as the bible were not smarter than a fifth grader! And of course, we should not forget that the church fought against many of the ideas you trumpet here and other others not listed – it was not unusual for the free thinkers of the day to be persecuted, locked up or even put to death for promoting ideas and scientific concepts that the church, usually reluctantly, has since accepted.

      More significantly, none of what you listed would qualify as a medical miracle. Perhaps you should bring your reading and comprehension skills up to a higher level. If you do that, and open your mind to alternatives to tribal myths, you just might be able to throw of the shackles of religion. Have a nice day!

      February 22, 2011 at 11:34 am |
  15. BooHoo

    Jaded

    I will kick your god in the nutz and shove YOU down his non-existent throat. How's that grab ya?

    I have no guilt for not believing something so ridiculous and insane and non-existent.
    What I DO have is a LOT of righteous wrath against all religions for being nothing but filthy sick con-games foisted on the human race by LIARS and the DELUDED who believe the LIES.

    ANGER not guilt, gives me the energy to post this comment.
    As for your so-called "god"....I would gladly blow his head off for all this crap humanity is going through and for all the crap I have to put up with from people like YOU and for everything else.
    NONE of it is my fault – maybe not even the stuff I do. What do you think about that, "Steve"?

    Isn't it funny how people rage at a God they don't believe in? I guess its ok to take it out on us, because we are his followers.
    Have you not learned to not let it bother you, Jaded, if you are so secure in what you believe?

    February 21, 2011 at 9:43 pm |
    • Ross

      BooHoo,

      You are living in a world of denial. If you would just once feel the peace and joy that you get when you give everything to God, you would be forever changed. If you are not open to evidence of God, you will not find it. God does not force his ways on you, but there will come a time when your time will be up. You are going one of two places BooHoo... Heaven. or hell. choose wisely. I agree with you that some people use religion for evil, and they will have a terrible punishment one day, but if you could connect with the One True God it would change your life, and in a good way.

      February 21, 2011 at 11:12 pm |
    • Something

      Ross,

      I think it is you who are in denial. I wish your scenario were true. I am a very good rule-follower, could probably do the worship thing if necessary, and am almost certain that I would qualify for a happily-ever-after existence. I just see no evidence for it.

      February 21, 2011 at 11:47 pm |
  16. Mary

    HotAirAce

    I believe you do not have all the facts or are deliberately misrepresenting them. Please provide additional details (such as date/time, location, hospital, doctors involved, etc.) so that your claim can be verified.

    Ok HotAir...First off, I deleivered the facts as I knew them to be. What would be the point in "deliberately" misrepresenting them? Don't even make any sense. If I gave you all that information, would you check it out? LOL....you know that no one can post thier personal information under a thread like thiis...(especiially one that is not even thiers) Another coy but recognizable ploy , so you can happily discredit, amd make yourself appear credible in your non belief.

    Why do you unbelievers go to such incredible extemes to down play any religous or christian belief? Does it provide your ego with more security? Is there something that smacks you deep down inside, that you just might be wrong?

    February 21, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Nice try. This is not about me. This is about you getting away with an unsubstantiated claim in support of your unsubstantiated beliefs! You're claiming a modern day miracle -a miracle, if true, that could significanly change the way many, perhaps even myself, think about religion. A story that if false, helps to continue to mislead others to believe in the logically unbelievable. If you are not prepared to substantiate your claim, you should not have given it voice. But you did, so now the burden of proof is upon you, and no amount of deflection can remove that burden. But I suspect you know that virtually zero of any such claims stand up to the light of independent investigation and that you either know your claim is false or you don't have the courage of your convictions to allow an independent investigation. In other words, put up ot shut up!

      February 21, 2011 at 9:48 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      HotAir, one miracle is that any of us read your babble and another miracle is that we bother to write back to the nonsense you blog.

      2 miracles.

      Jesus is the Alpha and Omega.

      Amen.

      February 22, 2011 at 1:49 am |
    • PeterVN

      Having been very dead for such a very long time, Jesus is a poor source of Omega-n. Not a lot of Alfalfa there either. Generally, communion wafers are a pretty poor source of nutrition, as is all religion generally.

      February 22, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
  17. DorcusTheGreat

    whoooohooo! Check this BS out..all of us unbeliever will be ate by the great worm...one of the crazy Christian websites
    Scientifically proven???huh?

    Scientist and Bible teacher, Henry Morris also agrees the Bible plainly teaches that hell is in this earth:

    "So far as we can tell from Scripture, the present hell, is somewhere in the heart of the earth itself. It is also called 'the pit' (Isa. 14:9, 15: Ezek. 32:18-21) and 'the abyss' (Rev. 9:2). . .
    The writers certainly themselves believed hell to be real and geographically 'beneath' the earth's surface. . .
    To say this is not scientific is to assume science knows much more about the earth's interior than is actually the case. The great 'pit' [hell] would only need to be about 100 miles or less in diameter to contain, with much room to spare, all the forty billion or so people who have ever lived, as=suming their 'spiritual' bodies are the same size as their physical bodies."
    (Henry M. Morris, The Bible Has the Answer, p. 220)
    The Birmingham News, April 10, 1987 had an article enti=tled "Earth's Center H=otter Than Sun's Surface, Scientists Say". The article stated that scientists have recently discovered, "THE EARTH'S INNER CORE HAS A TEMPERATURE OF OVER 12,000 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT!"

    Have you seen pictures of a volcano eru=pting, spewing a lake of fire from inside the earth — consuming everything within miles just from the heat? When Mount St. Helens erupted in May 18, 1980, it was described by reporters, "when HELL surfaced upon the earth." The book, Volcanoes, Earth's Awakening (p.91) describes an erupting volcano as "descent into HELL".

    Thousands of years ago, the Bible described a place called hell in the heart of the earth that matches exactly what science is discovering.

    YES! THERE IS A PLACE CALLED HELL!

    In Numbers 16, the Bible gives the account of people falling into hell alive!

    "And THE EARTH OPENED HER MOUTH, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive INTO THE PIT, and the EARTH CLOSED UPON THEM:" Numbers 16:32-33
    Caspar Peucer, a famous fourteenth century astronomer and phys=ician, who also researched and doc=u=mented the volcanoe eruptions at Heklafell wrote some very frightening information in his research findings. Peucer, claims (as others) that "fearful howlings, weeping and gnashing of teeth" could be heard "for many miles. . ." as these volcanoes eru=pted:

    "Out of the bot-tomless abyss of Heklafell, or rather out of Hell itself, rise melancholy cries and loud wailings, so that these can be heard for many miles around. . . there may be heard in the mountain fearful howlings, weeping and gnashing of teeth."
    (Haraldur Sigurdsson, Melting the Earth, The History of Ideas on Volcanic Eruptions, p. 73)
    And Caspar Peucer is not alone. There are others who believe they have heard "cries and screaming" coming from volcanoes. Most have tried to ignore the obvious. Some simply explain the "sounds of hell" to some rational meaning. But they are there. . .
    "The fearsome noises that issued from some of their volcanoes were certainly thought to be the screams of tormented souls in the fires of hell below".
    (Haraldur Sigurdsson, Melting the Earth, The History of Ideas on Volcanic Eruptions, p. 73)
    Inside this earth, this very moment, there are millions of lost, tormented souls — burning, weeping, wailing — without any hope whatsoever!

    In Mark 9:46, Jesus Christ says about hell: "Where THEIR WORM dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

    Jesus said explicitly — THEIR worm — not a worm, or the worm — but THEIR worm. The Bible teaches that Christians will one day have a body like the Lord Jesus Christ. Could it be, as some Bible students teach — that men and women in hell take on the form of their father, Satan (John 8:44)? In Revelation 12:3, Satan is described as a red dragon. Could Jesus Christ be referring to the body lost men and women will have for eternity?

    The earth’s crust on land is normally 50 miles thick. You’d have to go down 50 miles before the edge of the fire. But in parts of the ocean floor, the earth’s crust is less than a mile thick.

    Scientists recently discovered cra=cks on the ocean floor where fire was leaking out. Do you know what they found around these fire-breathing vents in the crust? Eight-foot long worms, found no other place in the world! The book, The Deep Sea, by Joseph Wallace (p.39), reads, "Perhaps the strangest of ocean creatures recently discovered are Riftia, the giant tube WORMS. Measuring up to 8 feet in length, the worms are ONLY FOUND NEAR DEEP SEA VENTS."

    And Jesus Christ said, "Where THEIR WORM dieth not, and the fire is not quenched

    February 21, 2011 at 8:15 pm |
  18. Mary

    Somehow my post flew to page 8..trying to get this to take here
    Mary

    Skeptical Analysis

    But it wasn't a big red ball on a table in front of everyone's eyes. First, your story is hearsay and anecdotal as you can't provide anything but your word that she had cancer and went into remission at any greater odds than is predicted and is "in a book with cases that defied explanation".
    Second, even if the events were as you describe, you still haven't proven anything. How do you not understand that these things happen naturally. Our bodies have self repairing characteristics. The human immune system can and does, on occasion, disassemble and eradicate a cancerous growth. As for god's love, read your bible again. The character is a jealous, vengeful, murderous, maniac, bent on dishing out as much torture and punishment as humanity can stand. It's lucky for all of us that he doesn't exist.

    Well its hearsay to you, and I am sorry I can't produce any evidence of my mother in laws personal recordsn this Cnn thread, but its not hearsay to me. I know it as truth and fact, I was there and expierienced what I relayed. Believe it or not, I don't really care. Even if I were able to do that, you would still not believe or find some other reason to denouce.( I posted it because YOU asked me to tell of a story that involved something along that line.>CORRECTION> It was Peter VN that asked me to post. My apology for mis stating it was you)

    Second, God is none of the things you said, I feel sorry for some of you, who see yourself as real beacons of knowledge, but yet you deny your own spirit!

    It does not bother me one bit, if you all want to call me delusional, or whatever, be my guests! I am secure in my place with the Lord, and not one ti-t-tle of your putdowns or name calling bother me one bit. It just shows how intellligent and moral you aare,lol, when someone disagree's with you or believes differently then you do. No respect for the other person. The fail is on you here

    Igor...Yes, the biopsy came back prior to surgery as malignant. The last one came back clean.

    JEX Thanks for your support. I am not worried about the bullies, I am use to them,lol.

    PeterVN

    Mary, the inconsistencies that you present are clear demonstrations that your god is neither perfect, nor omnipresent, nor omnipotent.

    The requirements for a god such as the Christians advertise are that stringent, and are not met in this case. Therefore, your god does not exist. Your beliefs might make you feel better, but they are not well-founded, and they are plainly absurd.

    You are also exhibiting behavior that falls within what is known as "confirmation bias"; you are selecting those parts of what you observe that you think support your belief, while ignoring the obvious facts that contradict it.

    PeterVN/..Well now, aren't you the Monday morning arm chair quaterback! I totally disagree with your opening line, about what my God is and isn't. Whatever "inconsistencies" you are talking about. I guess the ones you want to exist, to make your statement appear to carry some sense.

    You said:
    The requirements for a god such as the Christians advertise are that stringent, and are not met in this case. Therefore, your god does not exist. Your beliefs might make you feel better, but they are not well-founded, and they are plainly absurd.

    Both of your statements are absurd as well. You cannot prove my God don't exist. He exists by me. So whats your pointless point?
    Furthermore, my beliefs make me feel wonderful. The rest of that sentence is speculation on your behalf.
    Oh Gee, I see one more post from you...
    you say:
    PeterVN

    Mary, the difference between your position and mine is not merely one of opinion. Your willingness to close your eyes to evidence that contradicts your beliefs, and your willingness to ignore reason that shows your beliefs to be invalid, is what is at the source.

    As has been said before, though, if religious folk could appreciate evidence and understand reason, there would be no religion
    Spoken like a real anti christ! Wouldn't that fill you with Glee!

    You worry about me closing my eyes to evidence, when you are willing to ignore your own soul...how ironic! The contrdictions are on your end, for one who has not the spirit at work, cannot understand the things of the Spirit.
    My beliefs are all validated, by way of the Holy Spirit. He is the Truth!
    Who is it that validates YOUR beliefs? What reason do you attribute your beliefs to? Lol, Never mind, I know the answer to this, just curious if you do!

    February 21, 2011 at 7:29 pm |
    • airwx

      Mary...If you study gnos-ticisim you will find that it is a religion...quite old actually that says that if you "know" the right things you will become a god. I am finding that the non-christians in these discussions display many of the same belief systems as gnos-tics. I know this is going to get a lot of folks upset...but I am just making a semi-scientific observation based on the posts here. The comments of those arguing with you call for "reason" ( a religion unto itself ) and evidence. Yet the smartest among them cannot explain how to start a universe without a pre-existant something.

      February 21, 2011 at 7:35 pm |
    • PeterVN

      Actually, Mary, I did prove that a god with the absurd characteristics described by Christian claptrap such as your own does not exist. You are merely too stupid to understand that.

      February 22, 2011 at 10:23 am |
  19. HotAirAce

    @J EX

    You say we agree, but you don't chastise, even in a general way, the believers for committing the same offense nor do you suggest they find a new schtick (sp?) – somewhat inconsistent behaviour I suggest. And you stressed *EVERY* – I assure you, I have, and use, many discriptive phrases for believer's imaginary friends and their books of tribal mythology. I will endevour to be less repet!tive, but not less assertive. Thank you for your constructive feedback!

    February 21, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
  20. Mary

    Skeptical Analysis

    But it wasn't a big red ball on a table in front of everyone's eyes. First, your story is hearsay and anecdotal as you can't provide anything but your word that she had cancer and went into remission at any greater odds than is predicted and is "in a book with cases that defied explanation".
    Second, even if the events were as you describe, you still haven't proven anything. How do you not understand that these things happen naturally. Our bodies have self repairing characteristics. The human immune system can and does, on occasion, disassemble and eradicate a cancerous growth. As for god's love, read your bible again. The character is a jealous, vengeful, murderous, maniac, bent on dishing out as much torture and punishment as humanity can stand. It's lucky for all of us that he doesn't exist.

    Well its hearsay to you, and I am sorry I can't produce any evidence of my mother in laws personal recordsn this Cnn thread, but its not hearsay to me. I know it as truth and fact, I was there and expierienced what I relayed. Believe it or not, I don't really care. Even if I were able to do that, you would still not believe or find some other reason to denouce. I posted it because YOU asked me to tell of a story that involved something along that line.

    Second, God is none of the things you said, I feel sorry for some of you, who see yourself as real beacons of knowledge, but yet you deny your own spirit!

    It does not bother me one bit, if you all want to call me delusional, or whatever, be my guests! I am secure in my place with the Lord, and not one ti-t-tle of your putdowns or name calling bother me one bit. It just shows how intellligent and moral you aare,lol, when someone disagree's with you or believes differently then you do. No respect for the other person. The fail is on you here .

    February 21, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
    • airwx

      Mary...If you study gnos-ticisim you will find that it is a religion...quite old actually that says that if you "know" the right things you will become a god. I am finding that the non-christians in these discussions display many of the same belief systems as gnos-tics. I know this is going to get a lot of folks upset...but I am just making a semi-scientific observation based on the posts here.

      February 21, 2011 at 7:25 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Mary, I understand your reluctance to share personal details here. But how about calling up CNN, Fox or your favourite media outlet and let them do an impartial investigation of your claims? Or call up the rcc and let them know a miracle has happened? I understand pope-a-dope jp2 needs one more certified miracle to become a saint so I'm sure they would be very interested in your story *if* you or your mother-in-law prayed to that charlatan and pedophole protector to intercede on your mother-in-law's behalf.

      I understand this is your and your mother-in-laws personal story, but don't expect any non-believers to accept it if you won't at least take the steps neccesary to validate it. Unfortunately, faith is not good enough in the real world, and without some sort of independent evidence, all you've done is provide us with yet-another-unsubstantiated-miracle-story, and another reason to doubt your story and religion in general.

      February 21, 2011 at 7:43 pm |
    • Marconi Darwin

      Since it is not going to bother you, Mary, you are delusional. What bothers me is that it does not bother you.

      February 22, 2011 at 1:02 am |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.