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'Adopt a terrorist for prayer,' site urges
Al Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden is among the people listed on the website for prayer 'adoption.'
February 25th, 2011
06:00 AM ET

'Adopt a terrorist for prayer,' site urges

By Katie Glaeser, CNN

Could you pray for people who planned bombings, carried out shootings and terrorized civilians? A movement in the U.S. is asking Christians to do just that.

At atfp.org, Christians are asked to “adopt a terrorist for prayer.” A quote from the Bible on the site urges visitors to “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

"Where is the Christian response to terrorism?" the site says. "If the struggle against violence done in the name of Islam is primarily spiritual, then defeating it requires a spiritual response."

Adopt a Terrorist For Prayer (ATFP) spokesman Thomas Bruce tells CNN the site's main goals are to teach people how to pray for their enemies and to spiritually reform the terrorists.

The site was launched in 2008, with the interactive adoption feature being added in 2009. Bruce says 603 people have registered to prayerfully adopt a terrorist.

While the idea of praying for your foes isn’t new, Bruce says his team created the site in hopes of transforming the war against terrorists.

“We’ve been fighting this for about 10 years with material means, and it hasn’t really changed the nature of it,” Bruce says. “By bringing spiritual perspective to it, and as the Lord answers some of those prayers, it could and should hopefully have a profound change on the viciousness of the conflict we’re in.”

The ATFP site lists 165 people available for “adoption,” most of whom are designated by the FBI and State Department as terrorists or sponsors of terrorism. Just sign up, scroll through the list and choose which individual you’d like to pledge to transform through prayer. CNN could not verify the authenticity of all the names listed on the ATFP site.

Some terrorists have more sponsors than others. Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has been adopted by 13 people, while Detroit underwear bombing suspect Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab has just eight. All of the people listed have ties to Islam.

We ask Bruce why that’s the case. He says while he’s considered adding Christian or even eco terrorists to the list, they “aren’t a big threat to national security, our way of life, or our freedom. We should pray for them too, but the movement doesn’t threaten existentially our existence the same way the Islamic terrorists do.”

Bruce has been intimately involved in the conflicts of the past decade. While he was toying with the idea of the site a few years ago, he was called up as a U.S. military reservist. His passions collided when he was sent to northern Iraq to work for one year as a chaplain.

“It’s really important to service personnel to do their service for their country without dehumanizing the people who are trying to hurt their country,” Bruce says. The perspective Jesus brings, he says, can help soldiers deal with the enemy with dignity and treat them as fellow human beings.

And that’s the thought that carries over to his work with ATFP. “Even once someone is captured, they might not be a threat nationally any longer but they still have value to God, and we’d still like to see them changed,” he says.

But ATFP has its critics. Some people say terrorists don’t deserve their prayers, and others just mock the idea.

“I think the ridicule comes from people who don’t believe that spiritual things are valid, and prayer is a valid way to address problems,” Bruce says of critics.

The former military chaplain says he would like to see groups in other nations start similar initiatives, but that for now he just hopes this movement spreads throughout the United States.

“It’s not just the terrorists who are in bondage to an evil system. Christians can be in bondage to an evil system, too," he says. "Part of the struggle is to be liberated from that evil system, and that’s what we believe Jesus Christ helps us to do.”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: 9/11 • Belief • Christianity • Terrorism • Violence

soundoff (688 Responses)
  1. Brian from Seattle

    I laughed so hard I blew coffee out my nose reading this! Utter bull-caca.

    February 25, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • c

      Brian, so happy your Friday is starting off so well. Have a blessed weekend <

      February 25, 2011 at 11:02 am |
  2. Robert Hernandez

    It very interesting that non-Christians, many atheists or agnostics , try to explain the Lord Jesus Christ,Christianity, as though they know him or they know Islam.
    The difference between Islam and Christianity is profound, to suggest otherwise shows those commentaries ignorance. To Suggest they pray to the same god is stupid. Mohamed to the Christian is a false Prophet and Islam views Jesus as a prophet and not God and he was not crucified and rose. That is the key to Christianity.

    February 25, 2011 at 10:46 am |
    • Nonimus

      Doesn't Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the God of Abraham?

      February 25, 2011 at 10:54 am |
    • c

      Yes and no. Jews and Christians worship the God of Israel. Mohammad sort of took liberty with the Bible after Ishmal and Isaac and changed a few things around. So what some Christians believe is that actually their god is satan tricking them. Now, granted you can say it is vice versa however other writings substantiate Jewish and Christian Scripture. I have a Quran and it is interesting to read to say the least. Anyone can distort a religion, but, the difference between our Christian God and the Muslim god is that our God died for us and the Muslim god asks his followers to die for him? Thats crazy

      February 25, 2011 at 11:01 am |
    • NL

      c-
      And perhaps Christians took liberties with Jewish scripture as well, right? Everyone has Satan deceiving the other guy, but cannot fathom the very idea that they could be the ones being deceived. Ego getting the best of them, I suppose.

      "the difference between our Christian God and the Muslim god is that our God died for us and the Muslim god asks his followers to die for him? Thats crazy"

      Oh, I think that if you leaf through the Old Testament you might find a few people who were wiling to die for God, or at least sacrifice their child to him. Going on into the New we might even find a few Christian martyrs as well. Then there's all that Church history and the lives (and deaths) of the saints to consider. If anything, it simply seems that people have stopped being willing to lay their lives down for the Christian God. Interesting that.

      Then you have to consider what kind of sacrifice an eternal god is actually making in dying as a human? And for what purpose? To ransom humanity from a fate that he put us in to begin with? Seriously, how does that even make a little bit of sense?

      February 25, 2011 at 2:04 pm |
    • NL

      Robert-
      In case you missed the article in this blog, we atheists generally have the greatest knowledge of religion, and are thus the most likely to speak as to what each group believes. Also, not being members of either group, we are also most likely not to be biased for any particular religion. We're kinda neutral that way. 😉

      February 25, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
  3. Peggy Munro

    I saw this same comment as a response to a different article. And yes, they are all wrong because my prayers do work. I don't know anything about religion though so perhaps God answers prayers from "simpletons".

    February 25, 2011 at 10:46 am |
  4. Loren

    If you don't believe in prayer, fine. Why did you read this article? This man is trying to use his religion in a peaceful way, why is that a problem? If he was praying for harm or wanting to go on some crusade to kill all of the Muslims I would understand, but he's merely saying Christians should be praying for these people who wish us harm. You people will get upset about anything!

    February 25, 2011 at 10:43 am |
    • NL

      How would these Christians react to an organized effort made by Muslims to pray that Satan release them from his grasp? Maybe a little offended, even if it was done in all sincerity? Point is, when you target a specific group as needing God's mercy you are passing judgment. Why not just pray for peace, and let your God work out the details?

      February 25, 2011 at 4:42 pm |
  5. Jacob

    I apologize in advance if I offend anyone.
    Prayer is absolutely useless. God doesn't listen to our prayers. He doesn't just pick and choose who to answer. Otherwise that would make us dependant on Him, and that in turn would screw up free will. We, as the human race, have to do things on our own, and prove to Him that we are worthy of His presence. Is prayer a bad thing? I wouldn't say so. I mean, it can help prioritize exactly what you want out of life, I suppose. But there's no use in begging God to do something he obviously won't. If you want something to change... you have to change it yourself. You have to be the miracle on your own.

    February 25, 2011 at 10:43 am |
    • Peggy Munro

      Then I am one damn good miracle worker when I use the name of God.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:01 am |
    • NL

      Which brings us back to everything happening due to random chance, right? Remind me again what God is supposed to be doing FOR people.

      February 25, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
  6. GSA

    Seems like a lot of ppl went from talking about praying for terrorists to praying for Muslims in general, maybe most that post on this site see Muslims as bad which is pathetic. After 9/11 there were prayers for Americans all over from the Muslim community but it just wasn't great for tv ratings to highlight it so most of the world did not see it. We have about 5 Mosques here in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and all of them held prayers for Americans that day and for the week afterwards as many did worldwide.
    Maybe Christians here in Canada and the US and worldwide should be sending out prayers for the good yet struggling Muslims as they did for you. The ones stuck under corrupt and violent governments, the ones that actually need and appreciate our prayers and helping hands and forget about the terrorists.

    February 25, 2011 at 10:38 am |
    • NL

      A very good sentiment. Perhaps prayers for the continuing success of the ongoing Arab freedom movement would achieve a more practical effect?

      February 25, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
  7. Doc Vestibule

    "If you pray hard enough, you can make water run uphill. How hard? Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of course!"

    "The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by Ho.mo Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not recieve this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history."

    "Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind, it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate–and quickly."

    – Robert Heinlein

    February 25, 2011 at 10:37 am |
    • james

      For many of us, prayer is as much a comfort for those of us who practice it as it is a force on the external world.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:49 am |
  8. Shane

    Interesting idea. Can this list also be expanded to include terrorists who are waging war on women and their health providers with threats, bombings, and legislation designed to stop reproductive health services?

    February 25, 2011 at 10:37 am |
    • james

      like

      February 25, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • C

      Most Christian churches do not condone violence against those participating in abortion clinics. Most times you will see the devoted merely praying. But, if it were truly about womens health why wasnt I offered counseling after my abortion, rather than right at the 1 hour post op period scooted out the door. Planned Parenthood has nothing to do with womans health. Very few women 'need' abortions for the sake of their life, it is horrid when a child becomes pregnant due to incest, however, now they have to suffer from the act and the abortion? With technology as advanced as it is today there can no longer be the argument that life does not begin until later. Abortions inception was evil and no one ever talks about that. Margaret Sanger wanted to rid the planet of blacks, she was pro eugenics. Planned Parenthood is a factory and business. This country sickens me with its zest and zeal for friggen animals yet 50 million babies lives have been snuffed out due to their inconvenience. That is warped

      February 25, 2011 at 10:51 am |
    • Steve the real one

      @Shane,
      Interesting idea. Can this list also be expanded to include terrorists who are waging war on women and their health providers with threats, bombings, and legislation designed to stop reproductive health services?
      ------
      Sure! let's add them. Let me go a gaint step beyond that. How about we also add prayer for the terrorists that are ripping babies from the womb and the women they are suckering! Oh I forgot! I will include the fans of this murderous procedure (both polticians and those that are not)! Deal?

      February 25, 2011 at 11:03 am |
    • Frogist

      @Shane: like, as well 🙂

      February 25, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Steve: What makes you think the women are being suckered into something rather than making an important well-thought out decision for themselves?

      February 25, 2011 at 3:27 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Frogist
      @Steve: What makes you think the women are being suckered into something rather than making an important well-thought out decision for themselves?
      ------
      Well frogist, in the case of the poor and minority, look up Margaret Sanger! When you are done, please explain to me then why Planned Parenthood (a severe misnomer btw) has satuated poor minority neighbors.

      February 25, 2011 at 4:38 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Thank you Shane. I agree.

      Steve, I'm not sure if you know this, but Margaret Sanger has been dead a long time. Please try to wrap your brain around the concept that women can actually think for themselves.

      February 26, 2011 at 11:54 am |
    • Steve (the real one)

      tallulah13
      Thank you Shane. I agree. Steve, I'm not sure if you know this, but Margaret Sanger has been dead a long time. Please try to wrap your brain around the concept that women can actually think for themselves.
      -------
      I know full well that she is long gone. How about you wrap your brain around the fact that her ideals live on!

      February 26, 2011 at 12:14 pm |
  9. Igor

    "For those who don't, why are you mocking or attacking the people that does something they believe in?"

    Because it's this same mentality that drives terrorist acts in the name of religion. That there is no right or wrong as long as you have faith. That Christianity or Judaism eventually reaped the benefit of secularization in the west resulting in a more peaceful bend of both religeons does not negate the fact that faith is frequently used to justify murder because reality does not matter.

    "Prayer helps us to keep a relationship with God, which in turns empower us to reach and help others."

    Which is fine if you don't write an article about it extolling its virtues and praising people for doing what essentially amounts to doing nothing productive.

    "f you can't understand that, then just say, I do not understand that, and be done with it, but stop the hate against those who believe. "

    No, I understand perfectly well why you do it and what you hope to accomplish. Religion is prevalent enough for most non-theists to have been deeply religious until they reached the age of reason. And most of us don't hate you. We just think the concepts are nonsensical and should be subject to constructive criticism when promoted just like any other idea. I may think communism is a flawed political premise but it doesn't mean I hate everyone at the local college's communist club. See the difference?

    February 25, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • Peggy Munro

      I love intelligent debates like yours. You present your thoughts quite respectfully.

      I consider myself to be religiously intelligent. I was brought up in a home where everyone had their own beliefs. Everyone believed in God then. I attended a private school run by Anglican Sisters. They were way ahead of their time. Here is how religion and God went down. Wednesday was religious study day. They did not teach you anything. You stated a religion you associated with. They them went out and found a leader to lead your discussion during that hour. If you were Atheist, someone with your beliefs was brought in to talk with you. To this day students remain religiously open, respectful and tolerant.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:58 am |
    • Frogist

      @Peggy Munro: That is a fantastic idea! I experienced something of that nature in the Presbyterian school I attended. We had students of many faiths and for every religious holiday we would have "worship" that talked about that religion led by students and faculty from that religion. It was just the norm. So I came away with a very multi-religious, multi-cultural view. It is something severely lacking in a number of people I run into on this blog.

      February 25, 2011 at 1:35 pm |
  10. TheRationale

    If you're praying for anything, you're just wasting your time. But I suppose if you're going to do it, how about making an "Adopt a Predator drone" website where you can pray for the welfare and success of the people you actually love. If you harbor anything but hatred for these terrorists, your morality is simply malfunctioning.

    February 25, 2011 at 10:32 am |
    • HeavenSent

      TheRationale, I pray for you each time I finish reading anything you post.

      Amen.

      February 25, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
  11. Andrew

    As a Christian I believe prayer works. For those who don't, why are you mocking or attacking the people that does something they believe in? Saying that Christians should stop praying and start doing things, actually saddens me, since that means that, what we are doing in the world, is not being noticed enough. We pray, we praise, and we serve, check on the web how many Christian missions arround the world are doing things that actually help the worlds, Christians and non-Christians. Prayer helps us to keep a relationship with God, which in turns empower us to reach and help others. If you can't understand that, then just say, I do not understand that, and be done with it, but stop the hate against those who believe. Blessings, Andrew.

    February 25, 2011 at 10:18 am |
    • Jacob

      I don't think that people should stop praying – as I've said it can actually help get yourself in a good mind-set and all – but that people should not rely on it for their lives as some people unfortunately do.
      I unfortunately agree with you that the good actions of Christians are not noticed as much as they probably should – that the kind actions of ANY religion aren't noticed enough. The media just enjoys showing the bad parts, and that's really what has caused all this hatred towards Islam in the first place, because the media has succeeded in creating this violent, horrific image of Islam.
      If I may go on a bit of a side-rant, I am not the biggest fan of missions simply because – while they are well-intentioned and often help those who are involved – to me they seem as if they are telling people that their religion is wrong and they need to convert. Rant over. =)

      February 25, 2011 at 10:50 am |
    • james

      wholeheartedly agree. it's like evangelical athiesm with some people. i don't get what they have to gain in their little mind game of intellectual superiority.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:05 am |
    • Guest

      I'm glad to find other more moderate people. I know the issue that a lot of intellectuals have with Religion. They're quick to point at those Christians who may need to educate themselves some and look at their own actions, look at their Bible before judging others and sending everyone to hell. But, then they vilify everyone, hopefully they are really doing something to help the world and the earth but sitting here and look down at others, what does that really say about them?
      If you really want to get through some fanatics on any religion, start by not calling them stupid and you may actually get somewhere. Why attack each other, then those super intelligent people sounds just as silly as the people they're attacking and i only feel sorry for them. I myself i'm not sure how to get through minds that have 1000000 reasons for thinking and believing like they do, but i believe the change start with my own reaction and relationship to them. And in that sense, i wouldn't just laugh at them.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:20 am |
    • Frogist

      @james and Guest: I too am very glad to find a more moderate discussion other than the usual name-calling and put downs. But I do take issue with characterizing intellectuals as anti-religion. It is the same as saying religious-minded folks are just dumb. And personally I think such broad statements only hamper real discussion. I can't say I have met any "intellectual" who denies the capacity for the religious-minded to do good in the world. What they argue is that religion has a capacity for evil as well which is why it must be approached cautiously. I have noted an uptick in the tendency to villify intellectuals as uncaring or out of touch. Respectfully, I am wondering if this is another example of that.

      February 25, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
    • Guest

      Let me clarify, then i don't see intellectuals as anti-religion. I personally without wanted to sound arrogant would like to call myself one. I would even classify myself as a scientist and yes i have a religion. I am not a fanatic religion and i simply don't see sciences as an alternative to religion. So i get upset when i see minds that seem pretty brilliant on one hand, look down on people who may not have as much knowledge. That is what i meant.

      February 25, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Guest: Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it. I too feel the same dismay. But I'm not sure I experience it as much as I've heard people who claim themselves faithful but belittle the work of industrious scientists and great thinkers. I feel it is an unfortunate popular trend. I believe science and religion are separate territories. They are means to an end and need not to be combatant with each other, unless we mistakenly force them to be. For example, evolution is not in opposition to the existence of god, unless we force creationism into the mix.

      February 25, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
    • Guest

      I am very similar and i unfortunately know exactly what you mean. I'm cannot say that i don't often see the point of people who criticize poor behavior from "religious" people. I often agree. I just don't look down or dismiss them because to me the lack of knowledge and education makes it easier to be simplistic or fanatic about religion. Education could simply be knowing about other culture, other people who may simply have grown up in very different families, countries, culture etc.

      I don't see sciences as an opposition to religion. Sciences can explain a lot, and do wonders. I don't necessarily believe it brings me personally a sense of purpose or meaning. And some may say it's our desperate need for those that makes us create religion and God. And i'd rather see it the other way around.

      Your example is great and i often use it. Evolution does not negate God. I feel i can have both.

      I am surrounded by scientists and they are not all atheists. But what i appreciate even more around here is that even the atheists don't simply call everyone else an idiot and we can have some much deeper discussions. Even when i'm very challenged and shaken i feel like i'm just learning and growing some more. All we need is an open mind and that's why i'm surprised at some comments on here.

      February 25, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
  12. RichP, easton, pa

    The sad part is it's always the young children who are the martyrs and not the so called 'leaders'.

    February 25, 2011 at 10:02 am |
  13. Bohemina

    Can we pray for them to go to hell?

    February 25, 2011 at 9:46 am |
    • Eric

      Yea, that'll work. Unless they blow themselves up. A Martyr trumps prayer always.

      February 25, 2011 at 9:49 am |
    • Frankly Speakin..

      You dont have to, they already know they are going there..

      "On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

      February 25, 2011 at 10:41 am |
  14. Frogist

    I think the chaplain has a noble and worthwile cause here. I don't particularly think prayer will change the minds of terrorists by some divine intervention. But I think it will, as he said, help to prevent dehumanizing people Americans mostly consider only evil and not remotely human. It is a difficult thing to pray for someone who has wronged you. It is an act that to me means wishing the best for a person rather than succ-umbing to vengeance. That could lead to forgiveness which often times her-alds peace of mind. Peace of mind brings clarity to recognize those who are our enemies from those who are not. And considering the vitriol and willingness to villify a person due to their heritage rather than whether they are truly a threat or not, clarity and peace of mind are essential right now.

    Of course if people only go there to pray, "Dear Lord, please make Osama Bin Laden a Christian so he isn't a terrorist anymore," then the whole exercise is a vanity meant to proselytize for "our" side and increase the gap between them and us.

    That's why I take issue with him only having muslim terrorists on his site. I think that's a bit of arro-gance that he is overlooking because he is a Christian and a west-erner. It speaks of a bias that colors any discussion of terrorism. And he could easily confront that by putting up some Christian terrorists as well. It would only aid his goal of reducing how much we dehumanize terrorists by recognizing that even those who profess Christianity, something his visitors identify with, are prone to the same terrorist mindset and acts of violence.

    Please forgive the multi-post... I hate this flaming filter.

    February 25, 2011 at 9:40 am |
    • Guest

      I agree with you and i find it amusing that some people here just assume that any Christian is against sciences and is just another brainwash ignorant person who's gonna go and say "Please lord, make Osama be a Christian."

      February 25, 2011 at 11:11 am |
  15. NL

    The proposed power of prayer notwithstanding, it is possible that just the dedication to pray for the people who are so troubled as to turn to terrorist organizations may help steer some away. We know that they see us as enemies, are told that we hate them, and don't think that we care about their future to be sure. We know that they are already very religious, so it is possible that a show of compassion towards them from their sworn 'enemy' may throw a monkey wrench of doubt into some of their minds as to the validity of their cause.

    It may also have the opposite effect of angering others even more by being seen as a presumption that God listens to Christian American prayers more than Muslim. I'm thinking of how upset some people get by Mormons praying over their dead ancestors. That kind of reaction won't be very helpful in normalizing relations.

    February 25, 2011 at 8:22 am |
  16. Methusalem

    These children of Lucifer are not our enemies, but God's. The Bible tells us not to murder - but it allows us to kill enemies of God.

    February 25, 2011 at 8:21 am |
    • NL

      Are you an American talking about terrorists, or a terrorist talking about Americans? I can't tell the difference from your post.

      February 25, 2011 at 8:26 am |
    • doctore0

      How can you be so delusional, god enemies and stuff; The year is 2011, not 11.
      You have been brainwashed, just like the taliban

      February 25, 2011 at 8:45 am |
    • Nonimus

      Who's to say that Methusalem is not the enemy of God?

      February 25, 2011 at 10:15 am |
    • Todd

      So, basically you are saying to kill everyone – God will sort them out.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:46 am |
    • HeavenSent

      It's obvious Todd, you never read Romans 12:19 which says, "Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord." (See also Deuteronomy 32:39-41; Psalm 94:1; Isaiah 1:24; Nahum 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 1:8; Hebrews 10:30; Jude 7.)

      Amen.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:08 am |
    • Yusuf

      News to me! So in the Bible you can just kill people for not believing in the same God as you, or the same idea of God? Wow, at least in Islam to kill is sin and to kill anyone is a sin! It is only ok to kill an unbeliever if they initiate the fighting against you, acting in self defense, and stop as soon as they stop fighting you.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:22 am |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @Yusuf – He didn't say that – He clearly said Do NOT avenge yourselves, Vengence is mine (referring to God). If you don't understand something, open a Bible!

      February 25, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • NL

      HeavenSent-
      But you forgot the next two verses:
      Romans 12:19-21 (New International Version, ©2010)

      "19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:

      “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
      if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
      In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”

      21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

      Isn't the best intended spirit of praying for terrorists an attempt of following verse 21?

      February 25, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • HeavenSent

      NL,

      Thank you.

      Peace.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • NL

      HeavenSent-
      You're welcome.

      As Dr. Phil likes to say, someone has to step up and be the hero in every dysfunctional relationship.

      February 25, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • Ricardo

      If you mean infidels will be sent to terrorize infidels, I agree. That's exactly what is going on, infidel guys like Osama are sent by God to terrorize his likes

      February 25, 2011 at 11:19 pm |
  17. Justina

    Way to go, Christians, as usual! Conquer the world with love and in truth always!

    February 25, 2011 at 8:19 am |
    • Frogist

      @Justina: Was that sarcasm?

      February 25, 2011 at 9:45 am |
    • Todd

      Yup. That was sarcasm. Talk to Huckabee. He hates gay people. Talk to Palin. She hates intelligent people.

      Talk to Romney – he loves polygamy.

      Talk to Santorum (the person, not the goo). He loves dead babies. Seriously. You should see what he did with his dead son.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • Meep

      Just in case you were curious as to what Santorum did with his dead son: from wikipedia: "Karen Santorum wrote a book about the experience: Letters to Gabriel: The True Story of Gabriel Michael Santorum.[11] In it, she writes that the couple brought the deceased infant home from the hospital and introduced the dead child to their living children as "your brother Gabriel" and slept with the body overnight before returning it to the hospital."

      psycho christian morons. and he's a potential presidential candidate? ummm.. nope.

      February 25, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
  18. Reality

    How to save any Muslim to include a Muslim terrorist in under two minutes:

    The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

    ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

    Are you ready?

    Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

    The First Five of the 77 Branches:

    "1. Belief in Allah"

    aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

    "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

    Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

    "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

    A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

    "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

    Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

    Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

    Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

    "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

    Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.
    Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

    Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

    February 25, 2011 at 8:14 am |
    • Denogh

      If only it were as easy as this. Alas, just telling people that the things they believe in don't really exist doesn't do anything.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:06 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Reality, those that do evil, in this case what you are referring to as terrorists ... come in all walks of life. Those that follow evil by thinking, believing, doing evil destroyed my life as I knew it. They were born and raised in this country, and have absolutely to do with believing in God. Actually, they believe themselves to be their own mini-gods due to their big ego(s) of always looking down at others so they can destroy everyone and anyone that comes in their paths. That's what carnal thinking does to a person. If you look at God's very first commandment, you will see these folks violate it by worshiping other gods meaning them self, their own ego and are blinded by sin. Usually, the sin of ENVY first, then GREED, then all the other sins that come along and grab them off the path to His Truth.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:38 am |
    • Michael

      It would help if you weren't such a liar.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:39 am |
  19. doctore0

    There is no end to the madness in religion; Prayers do nothing, well except for being an lame excuse for doing nothing

    February 25, 2011 at 7:00 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Read what I wrote to your buddy the truth above, for it applies to you, as well.

      I pray that your misery ends soon and peace be with you, left to all us by the Holy Spirit.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:26 am |
    • james

      stop acting like you know everything. smugness doesn't help us advance.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:40 am |
    • Todd

      Heavens Sent, you belive in an invisible sky genie who grants wishes, but you don't "believe" in science that proves climate change and evolution. Take your worthless prayers, and shove them up your worthless hole.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:42 am |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @ Todd – Science has 'proved' nothing, especially considering the FACT that there are gaping holes in science that no one can explain. There are no holes in God's word and one day you will hopefully see that. You just have to have an open heart about it. Anyone who reads the Bible with their minds already made up is going to see it exactly how they want to see it.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Todd, Christians believe in true Science which is compatible with God's truth. Here is just some of His truth to match your beliefs.

      Luke 17:30: "Even thus shall it be IN THE DAY when the son of man is revealed. . . (vs 31) IN THAT DAY . . . (vs 34) I tell you, IN THAT NIGHT . . ." Nobody in Luke's day thought it could be day and night at the same time! They thought the earth was flat! Luke was written around 65 A.D. How did Luke know something that others didn't know until the 16th century?

      Isaiah 40:22: "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH." How did Isaiah know in 700 B.C. the earth is round? They didn't discover the earth is round until the early 1500s when Magellan sailed around the world. How did Isaiah know something over 2000 years ahead ????

      Job 26:7: ". . . and hangeth the earth upon NOTHING." During the time of Job, it was believed a god named Atlas held the earth on his shoulders! Nobody believed the earth "hangeth upon NOTHING!" Job is the oldest book in the Bible! Written over 3500 years ago! How did Job know something that was IMPOSSIBLE to know during his day?

      Genesis 2:7: "And the Lord God formed man of the DUST OF THE GROUND, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul."

      Psalm 8:8: ". . . whatsoever passeth through the PATHS OF THE SEAS." After reading Psalm 8:8, so and so set out to locate these curious "paths in the seas." He discovered the oceans have paths which flow through them. He became known as the "pathfinder of the seas". How did David (the writer of Psalms) know, over 2,000 years ago, there were "paths in the seas"? David probably never even saw an ocean! HOW DID HE KNOW?

      Ecclesiastes 1:7: "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the water cycle of condensation and evaporation? The sun evaporates water from the ocean, water vapor rises and becomes clouds. This water in the clouds falls back to the earth as rain, collects in rivers, and makes its way back to the ocean. This wasn't known until Galileo in 1630! How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know this in 1000 B.C.?

      Leviticus 15:13: "And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in RUNNING WATER." God said to wash the infected flesh in RUNNING WATER. Leviticus was written around 1490 B.C.

      Job 38:19: "Where is THE WAY where light dwelleth?" How come Job didn't say where is THE PLACE where light dwelleth? Because light is always moving. How did Job know something in 1500 B.C.

      Ecclesiastes 1:6: "The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again ACCORDING TO HIS CIRCUITS." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the wind traveled within circuits? THINK ABOUT IT! How can these men, with their limited knowledge thousands of years ago.

      Proverbs 6:6-8: "Go to the ant. . . gathereth her food in the harvest." There was no evidence that ants actually harvested grain. Solomon had been right after all. . ." How did Solomon know that in 1000 B.C.?

      Proverbs 17:22: "A merry heart doeth good ..." How did the writer of Proverbs know that?

      Leviticus 17:11: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood." Exactly what the Bible said in 1490 B.C.!

      Don't you find that odd? What Moses wrote in 1490 B.C.? The books of the Bible, written thousands of years ago, by men with such limited knowledge, be so far ahead?

      The Bible says, "And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. . ." (Acts 7:22).

      While you are matching scriptures up with what you know today, figure out which apostle was a physician.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:58 am |
    • ThinkRationally

      @geauxLSUtigers: you said: "Anyone who reads the Bible with their minds already made up is going to see it exactly how they want to see it."

      You do realize that this applies to you as well as to non-believers, right? Your suggestion seems to be that people interpret the Bible to match their worldview. I would say that believers are by far the best example of this. There is a wide spectrum of interpretation of the Bible, and everyone thinks their interpretation is dead-on correct.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:06 am |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @ThinkRationally – I am SO glad you asked me that! Actually, when I first read it, I had the same mindset as the non-believer. When I finally let go of my hard heart and realized that I REALLY wanted to know if he was real, he proved himself to me! So, my mind was made up at first, until I truly let my guard down and wanted to know the truth- if He was real or not. If you truly want to know if He's there- ask Him! But beware, you may be surprised!!!!!!!!!!!!

      February 25, 2011 at 11:17 am |
    • JPopNC

      A friend's wife was diagnosed with Stage 4 Chronic cancer of the spine in October of last year and it was so advanced the doctor's chose not to try to cure the cancer but to simply treat to contain it in order to provide as good of quality of life for the remainder of her life, however long that would be. We had a few dozen people praying continuously for her.

      They gave her the first two of her weekly treatments, but then weather set in and she missed two months of treatments and when she was able to get back to the doctors they decided to do another scan to see how bad it had progressed in the time she missed. Her and her husband were ready to accept the news that it had spread further so when the doctor came in smiling they were confused. The doctor's only words were, "Its gone....it's completely gone". When my friend asked "How?", the doctor's only reply was "we have no explanation".

      That wasn't a coincidence and it wasn't cured from the treatments because they knew upfront that they couldn't cure it. It was a miracle from God, an answered prayer, plain and simple. You can choose to believe me or not, that's fine, it's not anything I can readily prove to you, but it's fact and I bet there are plenty of instances even near you where similar miracles have occurred, you just have to open your eyes and see the truth instead of blinding yourself to the possibilities of a loving God.

      February 25, 2011 at 1:00 pm |
    • ThinkRationally

      @geauxLSUtigers, I would like to know what evidence, other than some kind of internal epiphany or warm, fuzzy feeling, God used to prove his existence to you. Also,what you describe does not sound like the words of the Bible were what changed your mind, but rather some kind of epiphany as I just mentioned. If it was the words of the Bible, please tell us which words those were; otherwise, I'll assume it was something else that actually changed your "hard heart."

      On your use of "hard heart", I realize that you were talking about yourself, but the implication that comes across is that non-believers in general have a hard heart. This is simply not true.

      February 25, 2011 at 1:45 pm |
    • NL

      HeavenSent-
      "I pray that your misery ends soon and peace be with you"
      What do you mean by this? Are you seriously praying for doctore0 to die soon?

      Maybe you might want to rally some of your buddies to start praying for you, eh?

      February 25, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
    • ThinkRationally

      @HeavenSent: The only thing your post demonstrates is the silly lengths that believers will go to in their rationalizations. I don't even understand what you're saying in #1.

      #2 takes a figure of speech and makes the unwarranted leap to building into some kind of scientific statement. Silly.

      #3: you're reading a bit much into this. It's a stretch, and nothing any primitive man couldn't have come up with after glancing into the night sky.

      You don't even state your claim for #4.

      #5 Do you not think that seafarers could simply have observed this phenomenon? How have you established that nobody would have know this?

      #6: The quote says nothing about the water cycle. It could as well be a layman's simple explanation for where all the water goes that you've read way too much into.

      #7: I fail to see the significance of this. Many primitive cultures know what worked and what didn't simply through trial and error. This does not demonstrate any understanding of infection or disease.

      #8 is just ridiculous. You have completely read your interpretation into this.

      #9 These men know what they knew through simple observation, duh. And does the wind really move in circuits? It moves from high pressure areas to low pressure areas.

      #10: What, because nobody back then ever observed ants?? How do you know what evidence there was about ants in that time? You seem to have just made up that statement.

      #11: Huh? This isn't even a scientific statement; it's just a social observation.

      #12: Because nobody ever saw someone bleed to death? Your conclusions assume that these people were imbeciles.

      None of this establishes anything. It's just a bunch of rationalizations and wishful thinking.

      February 25, 2011 at 4:33 pm |
    • ThinkRationally

      @HeavenSent: I find it remarkable that believers will scoff at, and attempt to poke holes in, solid scientific evidence from multiple independent lines of investigation that all support the same conclusions, such as the evidence for evolution or the age of the Earth, yet the same people will put forth fluff like your list as though it represents some kind of rock solid evidence for their beliefs. The confirmation bias is astounding.

      February 25, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
    • Magic

      HeavenSent,

      " Don't you find that odd? What Moses wrote in 1490 B.C.? The books of the Bible, written thousands of years ago, by men with such limited knowledge, be so far ahead?

      The Bible says, "And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. . ." (Acts 7:22)."

      ****************************************

      Looks like you answered your own question there. Ancient Egyptians knew lots of stuff about science (some wrong, some right, of course).

      Moses was also trained in magic by the Egyptians, as was his brother Aaron. They dazzled the ignorant, gullible Hebrews into believing all sorts of things.

      February 25, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @ThinkRationally – I'm sure it sounds like hogwash to you. It sounded the same way to me. I don't have to 'prove' anything to you other than the fact that I love my Jesus and will proclaim His name to all the earth. I hope that one day you can experience the same peace. I will pray for you.

      February 25, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
    • Magic

      geaux,

      "I don't have to 'prove' anything to you other than the fact that I love my Jesus and will proclaim His name to all the earth."

      Then neither do the Muslims have to prove anything as they proclaim Mohammad's/Allah's name; nor do the Mormons, as they trumpet Joseph Smith's; nor do Scientologists, as they hail Xenu; nor do I, if I wanted to honor my teddy bear.

      If your love for your Jesus is a comfort to you, fine; but the proclaiming of it as the one and only truth, without proof, is not warranted.

      February 25, 2011 at 5:28 pm |
  20. The Truth

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! This is hilarious!!!!

    Christianity and Islam (along with Judaism) are Abrahamic Religions. Thus, for all intents and purposes, the Christians would be praying to the SAME GOD that the Muslim terrorists are praying to. Fricken' Classic!!!!

    I'm not going to get into the whole "Does Prayer Work" debate as I'll leave that up to you guys, but here's a handful of studies that state the abundantly obvious:

    ***Mayo Clinic Study:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=11761499
    "CONCLUSIONS: As delivered in this study, intercessory prayer had no significant effect on medical outcomes after hospitalization in a coronary care unit."

    ***Duke Study:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16023511
    "INTERPRETATION: Neither masked prayer nor MIT therapy significantly improved clinical outcome after elective catheterisation or percutaneous coronary intervention."

    ***American Heart Journal Study:
    http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract
    "CONCLUSIONS: Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications."

    Thus, to assume that prayer really does work, then I guess that the Mayo Clinic, Duke University Medical Center and the American Heart Journal have no idea of what they are talking about. Never to mind such highly regarded places as Harvard also worked on the studies.

    So if any of you think you know more than these guys do (some of the premier medical facilities on the entire planet), then more power to you. If you do think that you are correct and they are incorrect, then the next time you need a doctor badly in a life-threatening situation, you might as well just stay at home and pray instead. Meanwhile, I'll be at the hospital allowing science to help save my life.

    Finally, we can prove it right now: Matthew 19 explicitly states – "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about ANYTHING you ask for, it WILL be done for you by my Father in heaven." OK, so myself and my friend with me are now asking for World Peace and for all hunger to eradicated instantly... WHAT? We are still at war? There are still hungry? Who would have thought?

    If people would stop praying and start "doing" instead, our society would be much better off. If every Christian spent that hour (or two hours+ when you factor in getting dressed, driving, talking afterward, etc) they are in Church every week to instead use that same time to go out and help the needy, the world would be a much better place.

    Peace.

    February 25, 2011 at 6:18 am |
    • Jeff

      Actually, you are incorrect. Islam does not pray to the same God. They are offended by the cross, hence the red crescent. So, the reality is, you are quite ignorant.

      February 25, 2011 at 9:33 am |
    • Eric

      Jeff...Christians believe there is one god and Islam believes there is one god. Therefore the pray to the same god, but only with different beliefs. The Bible says it is okay to kill and the Qur'an says it is okay to kill. Other than a lot of arguments about who is right and who is wrong, they seem like the same religion to me.

      February 25, 2011 at 9:46 am |
    • Frogist

      @Jeff: How technical do you want to get, Jeff? They pray to the same god of Abraham, but don't consider Jesus a god but a holy prophet. Christians pray to the god of Abraham and to Jesus. So it's not like you're diametrically opposed. That's like saying Jews and Christians don't pray to the same god. But if Jesus is god and god is Jesus, it would seem like you're splitting hairs.

      February 25, 2011 at 9:50 am |
    • NL

      Eric-
      Actually Christians believe in one God divided into three persons which is not what Muslims, or Jews, believe of the same character. So, at the very least, they have a much different view of who God is.

      February 25, 2011 at 9:51 am |
    • Another Jeff

      Ummm Jeff....... the god of Islam is the Abrahamic god, same as Christianity and Judaism. Offence caused by the cross is irrelevant here.

      February 25, 2011 at 9:52 am |
    • Eric

      NL – So you are trying to say christians are polygamist? No, you are not. I know about the "Holy Trinity" and all that bull...that's irrelevant. I'm saying that both religions believe in ONE god, but they have different views and beliefs about god.

      February 25, 2011 at 9:59 am |
    • Claes

      Well, as we all know, even if you and I don't believe in this, others do and I still think this is a fall foward don't you think? At least this is Christians taking the Bible seriously, rather than chatting about how peaceful their religion is while they're carpet bombing broze-age villages.... "oh that? Well they are a threat to us they say so it doesn't count!"

      February 25, 2011 at 10:01 am |
    • Denogh

      @Eric

      Lol, Christians are polygamists. Look that word up sometime. No, go on, I'll wait.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Nonimus

      @The Truth,
      Well said!

      February 25, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • Jeff

      Uh Eric, I am a Christian and I understand the background of Islam, what they believe and the whole thing about Ishmael and Abraham and Isaac etc etc.. Islam believes Ishmael was the promised son to Abraham..However, Abraham's lack of faith caused him to go hang out with Hagar who bore Ishmael.. Isaac was the promised son. They deny the deity of Jesus Christ and he said "I am the life and the truth and no one can come unto the father but through me". In that respect, they do not pray to the same God and actually pray to the God of this World.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:13 am |
    • Jeff

      Let me also add that what they are requesting is Biblical:
      Ephesians 6:12
      For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:20 am |
    • HeavenSent

      You have the right to keep bumbling and stumbling on that carnal path of yours. While you are at it the truth, what have you done to help the needy, create peace instead of bashing believers for our faith in our Lord and Savior who do everything for others in need, but you wouldn't know this because your eyes don't see and your ears don't hear as you continue on spewing babble baloney about what you haven't the foggiest clue about of His spirit ... as you blog on these post as the squeaky wheel always needing an oiling TIN MAN?

      Peace brother, I'll continue to pray for you.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:22 am |
    • NL

      Eric-
      You might want to ask Jews and Muslims if they can accept that their God was once a human and can be seen as three separate 'persons?' The very name 'Christian' denotes that they believe that the God they pray to is not, in fact, the same 'God' that the others have in mind when they are praying. Think of this as the same general difference between Christians and Mormons. Strictly speaking, not many in any of of these groups can see the differing views and rationalize the how they can all be praying to the exact same God without any of them being fundamentally flawed in their beliefs.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • Denogh

      @HeavenSent
      I'll tell you what I've done. I donate money and time to charaties that help the needy. Unless the Vatican has scientists working on a way to derive physical nourishment from prayers and good will I suggests the Christians get off their knees and start helping too.

      On the terrorism front, I served 5 years in the USMC during the struggle with Islamic Nutjobs. I know, it's a bit more active role than the devout would prefer to take. It's much easier to talk to your imaginary friend than to actually do anything.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:31 am |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

      Hence, the rant that is posted. Oh, and to Claes – Christians bombing anything are not Christians, period. They are the radicals that use Christianity to give it a bad name. There are radicals in every type of religion.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:38 am |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @Denough- Did you see the article on the two couples who were murdered by Somalian pirates? There are plenty of Christians out helping the world, only we choose not to advertise it because our reward isn't here on earth. They were doing exactly that.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:41 am |
    • Guest

      @Truth, actually i find your answer pretty silly. It's one thing to have an issue with religion but to simplify it the way you do, you sound just as hopeless. Have you consider that people don't just pray to ask favors? Have you considered that they may pray to better react to life, to find some insight and meaning in life? I'm actually amused by the fact that scientists attempted to measure prayers. Interesting! Can't even waste too much time reading all the opinions and responses on this. Faith is so personal, whatever people believe why do they feel the need to ridicule and attach each other? I can never understand that.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:52 am |
    • Yusuf

      Jeff, you are somewhat right. Muslims and Jews don't pray to the same God Christians pray to. Because, Christians believe that God had a son, or God came to earth as a human. Why? I don't know it seems odd that God couldn't understand humanity or forgive sins with out doing that, to me that is putting limitations of what God is capable of. Now as far as what Jesus (pbuh) said as you quoted, Muhammad (saws) said the exact same thing but Muslims don't think that Muhammad is God or the son of God because of this.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:54 am |
    • Preethi

      The Muslim acceptance prayer (also called Shahada) states that "I beleive in Allah (the god) whose prohpet is Mohammed". The technicality is that if Mohammed is beleiving (referencing/pointing) to the god of this world then he is not beleiving in the God of the Bible. If he had referenced to the "God who created me and the world" then he would be referencing the God of the Bible.
      Muslims consider themselves slaves of god (a Master-Slave relationship), but Christians address God as Heavenly Father (A Father-Son relationship). In places like Egypt and many Muslim countries they call Christian Pastors/Priests for exorcism because the god of the Quran cannot deliver them.
      Jeff is right in this respect.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:58 am |
    • NL

      Yusuf-
      "Muslims don't think that Muhammad is God or the son of God"
      If he was just a man then why so much outrage over Muhammad being the subject of a cartoon? It almost seems a blasphemy to criticize him in any way. How is this functionally any different than calling Jesus God?

      February 25, 2011 at 11:15 am |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @Yusuf- It seems hard that God could understand humanity? Not when God says at the beginning of the Bible that on day 6 he created man in his image. After creation came corruption with sin, so God sent Jesus into the world to live a sinless life so that he could be the ultimate sacrifice. When he rose again and went to sit at the right hand of his Father, he sent us his Holy Spirit – the third person of the Triune God.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • JPopNC

      @Denogh

      "I'll tell you what I've done. I donate money and time to charaties that help the needy. Unless the Vatican has scientists working on a way to derive physical nourishment from prayers and good will I suggests the Christians get off their knees and start helping too."

      How much time/money do you think Christians supply for the world??? My goodness, how naive can you be???? How many Christians do you think DIE each year doing just that??? Open your eyes and see what's actually happening man.

      "On the terrorism front, I served 5 years in the USMC during the struggle with Islamic Nutjobs. I know, it's a bit more active role than the devout would prefer to take. It's much easier to talk to your imaginary friend than to actually do anything".

      Let's just take ONE mission organization, Samaritan's Purse. They provide food, clothes, medical, construction, education, etc, etc, etc to places like:
      – Cambodia
      – Ecudor
      – Haiti
      – Mongolia
      – Niger
      – Sudan
      – Uganda
      – Vietnam
      – and yes, even the US

      So, to make a statement as you did simply just shows your ignorance.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:29 am |
    • Yusuf

      Ok, first Muslims are offended because we do not create images of God or the prophets. Also, to disbelieve or belittle ANY profit is blasphemy, note any not just Muhammad (saws) so this means Jesus, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, etc. That is why people get upset, now some people get a little too upset but that is them personally.

      geauxLSUtigers, Talk to a Jewish scholar regarding their understanding of in his image, maybe you can get a better understanding on what it means. Also, God does understand humanity and can forgive EVERY sin except one with no need of a savior to come to earth. The only sin God does not forgive is disbelief, this has parameters in Islam that are way to complex to explain to even a lay Muslim, if you will. Focus on what Jesus says not Paul, then you can see what Muslims believe.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:36 am |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @Yusuf – I read the Bible every day so I know what in His image means. That's what I just wrote to you.... ??? My God also does not approve of murder. You say that yours allows you to fight back if someone is attacking you? Sorry, but my God imparts peace and says there will be suffering for his name's sake. I'll stick with the one and only God of peace and love, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, His Father and the Holy Spirit within me. My reward will be when I am in heaven with him.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:57 am |
    • Yusuf

      geauxLSUtigers, If that is what you choose than I am ok with that and wish you well. I choose to worship the only God the uncreated creator who is not a part of creation and nothing in creation is like him.

      February 25, 2011 at 12:23 pm |
    • Frogist

      @HeavenSent: It offends me that you imply that anyone who does not profess Christianity is incapable or unwilling to help their fellowman. It is a blatant lie. Just as much as it is a lie that everyone who claims to be a christian is a good person. Can you please put away your bias and deal with the topic at hand? The Truth has made a valid point (with references) that prayer has been shown scientifically to not aid in healing. If you can't refute his point without insulting him and every other non-believer in the process, accept what he has to say gracefully instead of the equivalent of stomping your feet and yelling, "Atheists are evil."

      February 25, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • NL

      Yusuf
      "now some people get a little too upset but that is them personally."
      Now, that's putting it a tad mildly, wouldn't you say?

      I can see people getting offended when someone you respect is being mocked. Hell, it offends me when people mock Darwin, Einstein, and Hawking, but I believe in freedom of speech, so I respect people's right to express stupid ideas. Threatening to kill people for blasphemy just bespeaks of repression to me, and history teaches us that repression of ideas is the last resort of authoritarian regimes who know, deep down, that their ideology won't pass any serious scrutiny. Do you think that those who "get a little too upset" actually realize that their actions convey a weakness in the truth of what they believe?

      February 25, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
    • Yusuf

      NL,

      You are right, it is stupid and completely against what the teachings of Islam promote. But, people are people and they get upset when someone they love gets attacked. Please don't compare Darwin or Einstein and the respect you, and I, have for them to Muslims love of Muhammad. Muhammad is loved more than your mother, father, wife, children and yourself if you are a devout Muslim. This is what triggers the anger and reaction. I do get offended and upset when people say things but also know that the best thing to do is not let them validate any misconceptions by reacting negatively.

      February 25, 2011 at 1:15 pm |
    • Jeff is a moron

      Actually Jeff,you are ignorant. christians believe in 1 god, but 3 forms (father, son, holy spirit). The difference between Islam and Christianity is they don't believe in the 'holy' trinity, but instead only 1 god. The God of Islam and God "the father" in christian religion are one in the same, however Christians screw it all up by believing in the trinity

      February 25, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • NL

      Yusuf-
      "Muhammad is loved more than your mother, father, wife, children and yourself if you are a devout Muslim."
      And Jesus is loved more than your mother, father, wife, children and yourself if you are a devout Christian, and they even think of him as God but, lately, few have proven capable of killing someone who insults him. So, the question is, are these modern-day Muslims more passionate than their Christian counterparts, or just less inhibited within the society they find themselves?

      Considering how some Christians treat gays and the funerals of fallen soldiers I'm inclined to believe that the restraint of society is the deciding factor, and any shift towards a more 'Christian' America will only loosen what restraint they do presently have. What do you think?

      February 25, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • AWMessenger

      After all is said and done, all that logic and intellect you passionately choose to dispel is really going to come in handy when you try to explain to your Creator why you chose to disbelieve in Him.

      Christ states to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you. Therefore, the idea to pray for terrorists is right in line with a direct commandment fro Christ.

      As far as praying goes, God only listens to the prayers of those who truly choose to believe in Him. Inasmuch, since you don't believe in Him, you can pray until you are blue in the face and your prayers won't be answered. You and 1,000 other atheists could sit around praying for the same thing and continue to disbelieve, and your prayers won't be answered.

      The wisdom of this world is foolishness to Christ, and the wisdom of Christ is considered to be foolish by the atheist intellects of this world. Thus, we could go round and round and round on this one. Eventually the True answer to this equation will come out in the end.

      There is real power in prayer from a person who truly believes.

      February 25, 2011 at 2:48 pm |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @ NL – The so-called professing Christians that protest gay funerals (along with a lot of other funerals) to me are not truly Christians. I do not claim them. They are radical extremists of the worst kind. I am a professing Christian and would no way do something like that. I do not believe that man was created for man, and I pray for gays to see their sins, but it is not in any way, shape or form right for anyone to stand there and say some of the things that little church does. If you ever see 'Christians' like that who use curse words right along with God's name, I would question their faith, seriously.

      February 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      I think you are referring to Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka KS. That is a seriously misled church.

      February 25, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
    • NL

      geauxLSUtigers-
      And there are Muslims who would similarly disavow anyone who straps on a bomb vest who calls themselves a Muslim. That said, I have to question why any Christians would act politically against gay marriage. Surely if they had any faith that God would take His own punishment there would be no need to legally prevent it. In point of fact, isn't removing the choice actually working against the free will you all imagine God has given everyone?

      And why specify gays for any special prayers? Aren't all people sinners? Aren't all sins equally serious? Why not, then, just pray for everyone's salvation without ANY special regard for what they may, or may not have done?

      February 25, 2011 at 3:44 pm |
    • NL

      Hmmm... The Libyan ambas sador is crying in the UN and there are hopes that democracy spreads from Morocco to Iran.

      I will gladly add all my hopes to any and all prayers people are willing to offer for that to come true. 🙂

      February 25, 2011 at 4:25 pm |
    • geauxLSUtigers

      @NL – Who says I don't pray for all sinners? I do pray for salvation for all who are willing to choose to obey God's call on their life. I don't 'choose' to judge anyone, I leave that to God but I do pray for what I believe in and hope that they will see their sin. I can go on and on about what I believe in but no matter what I say you are going to find something wrong with it because your eyes are veiled. I will pray for you as well.

      February 25, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
    • The Truth

      @ Jeff: "Actually, you are incorrect. Islam does not pray to the same God. They are offended by the cross, hence the red crescent. So, the reality is, you are quite ignorant."

      Let's talk about reality for a minute Jeff. First off, you are running around calling me ignorant when in fact if you understood your own Bible, you'd realize that isn't a very Christian thing to do. Please point out all the spots were Jesus says it is OK to "name call" others. Thus, that not only makes you ignorant, but also a hypocrite. Congrats on that.

      Secondly, I stated, "Christianity and Islam (along with Judaism) are Abrahamic Religions. Thus, for all intents and purposes, the Christians would be praying to the SAME GOD that the Muslim terrorists are praying to. Fricken' Classic!!!!" Christianity, Islam and Judaism are indeed Abrahamic Religions. Then I said that FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES (I know that phrase must be difficult for someone like yourself to comprehend), the Christians would be praying to the SAME GOD that the Muslim terrorists are praying to. Did I say the same Muhammed? Did I say the same Jesus? No, I said the same God... thus, that is why they are ALL Abrahamic Faiths.

      Other people on here understand it, just not you.

      So then what do you do? You then come out and ignore the phrase "for all intents and purposes" and choose to nitpick the differences. Guess what Einstein.... there are obviously difference otherwise they would be the same religion. Duh.

      Using an childish analogy since you like to call other people names, it is like saying that Adam West's Batman is different from Michael Keaton's Batman is different from Christian (pun possibly intended) Bale's Batman. Of course there are differences (just like there are between Christianity, Islam and Judaism), but in the end, they are all still Batman (just like the God they all share).

      "Let me also add that what they are requesting is Biblical:"

      So is your God COMMANDING you to kill everyone that works on Sunday, to kill children that talk back to their parents, to kill ho-mose-xuals, etc, etc, etc. Funny how you don't quote those parts.

      Studies have shown that the more someone believes in God, the lower their intelligence level. Atheists had the highest levels of intelligence, followed by agnostics, followed by casual believers and with the most devout coming in dead last. It's nice to know that your comments help to support those findings.

      Cheers!

      February 25, 2011 at 10:33 pm |
    • The Truth

      ***@HeavenSent: "You have the right to keep bumbling and stumbling on that carnal path of yours."***

      This is coming from a person who believes that rivers don't flow into lakes, that the Earth is a circle and not a sphere, that people discovered the world was round in the 1500's, etc. Yep, I'm the one that's stumbling on my path.

      ***"While you are at it the truth, what have you done to help the needy"***

      LOL... I'll bet my bottom dollar I do more to help the needy than you do. It is only your delusion that if someone doesn't have the self-imposed label of "Christian" that they aren't just as capable of helping those in need. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is the largest of its kind in the history of the world with an endowment of over 30 BILLION dollars and its two biggest benefactors are non-believers (Gates and Buffet).

      ***"create peace instead of bashing believers for our faith in our Lord and Savior who do everything for others in need"***

      Actually, I wish peace to others on here all the time. In fact, I bet I do it more than you do. When you realize that it is religion that has been the source of most of the conflict in the world over the last several decades, then you'll be ahead of the game.

      ****as you blog on these post as the squeaky wheel always needing an oiling TIN MAN?***

      VERY Christian of you yet again... you love calling other names don't you? I've already called you out on this several times, so you are more than well aware, but refuse to change. You should read your Bible again.

      ***Peace brother, I'll continue to pray for you.***

      Peace to you as well and pray for me all you want... I already showed that it doesn't work. If you don't believe it, get all of your Christian friends together and pray for hunger to be eradicated tomorrow. After it says that ANYTHING you ask for WILL be granted. I'll check in the newspapers tomorrow to see if your prayers worked.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:33 pm |
    • The Truth

      @Denogh: "I served 5 years in the USMC"

      Thank you for your service to our country.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:34 pm |
    • The Truth

      @Nonimus: "The Truth, Well said!"

      Thank you!

      Cheers!

      February 25, 2011 at 10:35 pm |
    • The Truth

      @ geauxLSUtigers: Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

      Which is why God selected his chosen people as the least intelligent segment of society (as talked about earlier) right?

      February 25, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
    • The Truth

      ***@Guest: actually i find your answer pretty silly. It's one thing to have an issue with religion but to simplify it the way you do, you sound just as hopeless. Have you consider that people don't just pray to ask favors? Have you considered that they may pray to better react to life, to find some insight and meaning in life?***

      As do I find your answer pretty silly. Have you considered that I spent 12 years of my life in faith based schools? Have you considered that I worked on the payroll and volunteered at my Church? Have you considered that I've been there, done that? How much time have you spent on my side of the equation? Everything that you described, you could do with yoga, non-religious based meditation, etc.

      ***I'm actually amused by the fact that scientists attempted to measure prayers. Interesting!***

      Why is that amusing? Instead of you realizing that they showed that they don't work, you instead blow it off and find it amusing. That's delusion.

      How many amputees has God miraculous cured? What... none? God must hate amputees.

      ***Can't even waste too much time reading all the opinions and responses on this.***

      Yes, God forbid that you'd actually want to read points of view that are different from your own.

      ***Faith is so personal, whatever people believe why do they feel the need to ridicule and attach each other?****

      If I came out and said that I believe the Easter Bunny is 100% real would you ridicule me? What if I said that I believe that Yoda is 100% real, would you ridicule me?

      Moreover, didn't you just call me "hopeless?" People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

      ***I can never understand that.***

      As you so poignantly illustrated.

      Peace.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
    • The Truth

      ***@JPopNC "How much time/money do you think Christians supply for the world??? My goodness, how naive can you be????"***

      How much time/money do you think non-Christians supply for the world??? Considering there are far more non-Christians than Christians, it would appear as if they give more. My goodness, how naive can you be????

      There are 80 Christians to every 1 homeless person in the US, yet there are millions that are homeless. How can that be with all these good Christians around?

      Peace.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:37 pm |
    • The Truth

      ***"@geauxLSUtigers – I read the Bible every day so I know what in His image means." ****

      Would that be the blonde hair, blue eyed Jesus that Christians worship? Heck, Christians are in denial about even something as simple as this.

      Just to educate others, here's what your Jesus more than likely looked like: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/1282186

      But hey, that doesn't sell in religious stores and doesn't look as good in your churches, so people just pretend he is something he is not.

      ***"My God also does not approve of murder."***

      LOL!!!!! Are you serious? After all, according to the Bible itself, God killed FAR more people than the evil Satan. Most people are shocked to learn about how many people the devil actually killed. In the Bible, the number of SPECIFIC references to the number of people that God killed is in excess of 2.3 Million.

      None of that even accounts for abstract events such as "the flood," then that number is likely in excess of 30 Million people.

      And how many people has the devil killed? The answer is 10. Not 10 Million, not 10 Thousand, but rather 10. That's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

      Even more ironic is that the 10 people that he killed were in a "bet" of sorts with God with regard to Job and his family, so God was directly implicated in those as well.

      So looking at the final specific tally that is most favorable to God, it is:

      God Killed: 2,300,000+
      Satan Killed: 10

      Don't shoot the messenger... I'm only reporting what the Bible says.

      In fact, your God COMMANDS you to kill countless times in the Bible.

      ***Sorry, but my God imparts peace and says there will be suffering for his name's sake****

      Your God COMMANDS you to kill everyone that works on Sundays, to kill children who talk back to their parents, to kill ho-mo-se-xuals, etc, etc, etc.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:38 pm |
    • The Truth

      ***@AWMessenger: After all is said and done, all that logic and intellect you passionately choose to dispel is really going to come in handy when you try to explain to your Creator why you chose to disbelieve in Him.***

      I already have my answer: Because I know that he is far more intelligent than I am and because I would never be so daft as to write something as ridiculously error prone as the Bible, that therefore he wouldn't have written it either because he is far more intelligent than I am. How are you going to explain how you followed a 2K year old book written by uneducated men and believed God was so dumb as to author it?

      ***Christ states to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you. Therefore, the idea to pray for terrorists is right in line with a direct commandment fro Christ.***

      If you can't see the absurdity in two opposing sides praying to what is for all intents and purposes the same God, then oh well.

      ****As far as praying goes, God only listens to the prayers of those who truly choose to believe in Him. Inasmuch, since you don't believe in Him, you can pray until you are blue in the face and your prayers won't be answered.****

      LOL!!!! I was a believer for a long time and it STILL didn't work. So once again, you and your Christian friends pray for all hunger to be eradicated tomorrow. The Bible states that your prayers WILL be answered for ANYTHING. I'll check the paper tomorrow to see if it happens. I think we both know that it won't.

      ***You and 1,000 other atheists could sit around praying for the same thing and continue to disbelieve, and your prayers won't be answered.***

      Then simply accept my challenge above and prove me wrong. Seriously, I can't wait to hear what you "excuse" I mean "justification" will be as to why it doesn't work.

      ***The wisdom of this world is foolishness to Christ, ****

      Which is EXACTLY why God never wrote something as ridiculous the Bible. This isn't to say that there isn't a Higher Power, just that said Higher Power wouldn't have written a book riddled with errors.

      ***and the wisdom of Christ is considered to be foolish by the atheist intellects of this world.***

      So the intelligent can't figure it out, only the non-intelligent? That speaks volumes.

      ***There is real power in prayer from a person who truly believes.***

      The world will owe you a huge debt when all hunger is eradicated tomorrow. Good luck with that as I hope you are right and prove me wrong. I'll be waiting to see.

      Peace.

      February 25, 2011 at 10:39 pm |
    • The Truth

      The ultimate irony to all the Christians arguing on here is that if they were born in many spots in the Middle East, they'd be arguing FOR Muhammad and AGAINST Jesus. That is how absurd this whole argument is.

      Thus, to the Christians arguing here:

      How many times have you attended a Mormon Temple? What about a Muslim Mosque? What about a Hindu Temple? What about a Jewish Synagogue? How can anyone possibly know for certain that you've found the "right" religion while not experiencing the others that millions upon millions of others find to be their salvation? If you haven't, then you are the person that sits there and insists that Pepsi tastes better than Coke, but you have only tried the Pepsi and never the Coke. Yet, you will be steadfast in your belief that Pepsi is better despite having no conclusive first hand experience to prove otherwise. Thus, the ENTIRE argument is invalid.

      When you come to the realization that if you were born in Iran that you would have the EXACT same zeal for Muhammad and Allah that you do for Jesus and God, then that will be a big awakening for you. If you were born in India, you'd have the same zeal for Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma that have for Jesus/God. If you were born in Tibet, you would have the same zeal for Buddha that you have for Jesus/God. So what does that say about the book you worship (when you wouldn't have worshiped it based solely on geographic location of birth and religion of your parents)?

      To deny it is to deny the truth. After all, the Truth Shall Set You Free...

      Peace.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:13 pm |
    • NL

      geauxLSUtigers-
      "Who says I don't pray for all sinners?"
      Then you were already praying for these terrorists, and the folks who started this 'adoption' group as well. Obviously, you wouldn't need to join this group and these Christians weren't as compassionate to everyone as you already were, right?

      "I will pray for you as well."
      Oops, I guess you weren't praying for all sinners already after all.

      February 25, 2011 at 11:30 pm |
    • The Truth

      Here's a video for everyone:

      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/video7.htm

      In this video, it does two things:

      1) Compares Christianity, Islam and Mormonism.

      2) Talks about the efficacy of prayer.

      Enjoy!
      😉

      February 26, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
    • john

      @The Truth

      Christianity and Islam (along with Judaism) are Abrahamic Religions. Thus, for all intents and purposes, the Christians would be praying to the SAME GOD that the Muslim terrorists are praying to. Fricken' Classic!!!!

      The TRUTH, you are wrong!! The Christians never pray to SAME GOD that the Muslim terrorists are praying to.
      You are lie! The Christians never pray to ALLAH by all means. N E V E R!!

      February 27, 2011 at 12:56 am |
    • The Truth

      ***@John: The TRUTH, you are wrong!! The Christians never pray to SAME GOD that the Muslim terrorists are praying to.
      You are lie! The Christians never pray to ALLAH by all means. N E V E R!!***

      First off, the line, "You are lie!" was so funny that I'm literally stilling laughing at it.

      As for me being wrong, actually, no I am not. All three are indeed Abrahamic religions which means this is the God of Abraham. Hence, the same God. Here are some highlights from Wiki:

      >> All Abrahamic religions claim to be monotheistic, worshiping an exclusive God, though known by different names. All of these religions believe that God creates, is one, rules, reveals, loves, judges, and forgives....All the Abrahamic religions affirm one personal eternal God who created the universe, who rules history, who sends prophetic and angelic messengers and who reveals the divine will through inspired Scriptures. They also affirm that obedience to this creator God is to be lived out historically, and that one day God will unilaterally intervene in human history on the day of judgment and will determine for all humanity their eternal destinies of heaven or hell based upon a person's beliefs and actions. This theological continuity among them is profound<<

      So sorry buddy, you worship the same God as the Muslim terrorists. Congratulations on finally finding out how ridiculous organized religion actually is. Good luck with it.

      Peace.

      February 27, 2011 at 9:03 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.