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 Rob Bell is under fire for his latest book before it even hits the shelves.
March 1st, 2011
06:00 AM ET
Christian author's book sparks charges of heresyBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor Rob Bell, a pastor and author who has achieved rock star status in the Christian world, is preaching a false gospel, his critics say. And some of those critics are Christian rock stars in their own right. The pastor of Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, Bell has authored a book called Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, which ignited a firestorm of controversy over the weekend, weeks before it arrives in bookstores. On Saturday, in a blog post on the popular Christian website The Gospel Coalition, Justin Taylor blasted Bell's new book, out March 29, for teaching "false doctrine":
Universalism, in its broadest terms, preaches that everyone goes to heaven and that there is no hell. Critics say it represents a break from traditional Christianity, which they say holds that heaven and hell are very real places. In most Christian circles, universalism is a dirty word. Taylor's post was quickly tweeted by several prominent pastors, including John Piper and Mark Driscoll, connected to the Gospel Coalition, a coalition of theologically conservative evangelical churches, and a full-blown theological controversy was on. By Monday, Taylor's response post had racked up a quarter million hits. Other bloggers, meanwhile, are calling Bell an outright heretic. Bell is not the first prominent Christian pastor to be recently accused of wading into theologically troubled waters. Bishop Carlton Pearson, once a mentee of famed Pentecostal televangelist Oral Roberts, has been run out of two churches and branded a heretic for preaching what he says is a gospel of inclusion with broad universalist themes. Last year, Brian McLaren - a popular Christian author and a former pastor - was accused of breaking with Christian orthodoxy and delving headlong into universalism in his book A New Kind of Christianity. But it's rare that theological arguments become top ten trending topics on Twitter, as Rob Bell did on Saturday. “To be honest, it was a pretty rough weekend,” Taylor said in a phone interview. The 34-year-old heads the editorial content for Crossway, a Christian publishing company in Wheaton, Illinois. Taylor he says his blog expresses his personal opinion not the opinion of the coalition. "We’re talking about the big things here, things that have been historically defined as orthodox, " he said. "I have a high degree of confidence in what God is saying and what we can understand." Though many things that separate Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox Christians, “this isn’t one of them," Taylor said. "We’ve historically agreed on many things, the person of Christ, heaven and hell. This isn’t a peripheral academic debate. What Rob Bell is talking about gets to the heart of Christianity.” Taylor has not read Bell's forthcoming book in its entirety. His blog post was in response to the description released by Bell publisher HarperOne and a promotional video that features Bell. "Rob Bell hasn’t sinned against me personally,” Taylor said, which is why he did not go to Bell before making his comments public. Instead, Taylor said, Bell's book represents a clear example of false teaching. In the promotional video Bell refers to the nonviolent Indian independence leader Mahatma Gandhi, a Hindu, and asks, "Gandhi's in hell? He is?" "And someone knows this for sure?" Bell continues. "Will billions and billions of people burn forever in hell? And if that's the case how do you become one of the few? " The video follows a trend in Bell's career as a pastor: he has long asked tough theological questions and challenged traditional answers. The short promotional video raises lots of questions without offering definitive answers. "What we believe about heaven and hell is incredibly important because it exposes what we believe about who God is and what God is like," Bell says in it. " The good news is that love wins." Those lines raised eyebrows for Taylor and others. "It is not preaching the gospel as found in the New Testament," Taylor said. "The New Testament is pretty clear if someone preaches a false gospel… that we are to reject that and have nothing to do with them." For all his hipster leanings - including black rimmed glasses - Bell has a traditional pedigree. He went to Wheaton College, the Harvard of Christian schools, and later graduated from Fuller Theological Seminary with a Master of Divinity. But the Mars Hill Bible Church, which Bell founded, is not attached to any denomination. Were it attached to one - the Presbyterian or Catholic church, say - his book and video could raise eyebrows in the hierarchy and might lead to a church trial that could result in Bell's expulsion. "A larger denomination would take his credentials and excommunicate him like they did to me,” Bishop Pearson told CNN. By Sunday evening, Pearson was getting sent articles about the Bell flap. He said it reminded him of his days as a charismatic leader of a big church in the largest Pentecostal denomination. His questioning of hell from the pulpit led to his ouster. "What happened to me is happening to Rob Bell," Pearson said. "If you denounce hell, it's like you are denouncing God. You’re going to be called a heretic." “I thought my people loved me and would walk through the valley of the shadow of death with me, but they didn’t,” Pearson said. Bell's church did not respond to requests for an interview. His Twitter feed has been silent since he posted about writing a piece for CNN's Belief Blog a few weeks ago. His publicist at HarperOne said he would not be doing publicity until his book hits shelves. soundoff (2,200 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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This is exactly what Jesus said would happen in the last days, even the most 'elect' would fall for and teach false doctrine and have itching ears. Yes anyone who has not confessed that Jesus is Lord is up to go to hell as well as anyone who has confessed and not shown a heart effort to live according to Gods' word. Big point here, GOD DECIDES but reality is THERE IS A HEAVEN and THERE IS A HELL!
Hmmm I don't know. I have done research into the Gnotics, and the Naceans (sp) and from what I have started to believe, the way that Christianity is taughted today may very well be the "false doctrine" he was referring to. Now don't get me wrong this is just a theory, but the "true message" Jesus Christ taught may have been lost when the religion went through the Roman Empire and Church and became what Christianity is today. Just a theory.
Typing in ALL CAPS doesn't make it true.
if we could only get a glimse into hell; see the torture, see the pain, we would all be as fiery evangelists as Billy Graham; there is a hell, there is a heaven, if you miss it, its no ones fault but ones own!
So basically, "If you dare try to take away our most horrific conception of suffering, pain, and gut-wrenching torture (hell) and don't allow us to imagine who deserves to be there, we will ban you!! We will excommunicate you! Our loving God WILL allow you to go to hell even if you don't believe in it!" Perhaps, hell is the perfect place to go in our minds when we need to indulge what our guilt would have us do to ourselves. The truth is, when religion serves as a concrete moral code, you will have TONS to feel guilty for. Hell is our best and most sinister conceptual response. It serves a purpose to those who have so much to feel guilty for. Take it away and we are left with guilt and no antidote...scary indeed for those who have so many things to feel guilty about...so many things to track.
If you believe in GOD or not that choice is yours, but please be much kinder to one another and stop the name calling it is not necessary. We all have free will and whether you believe GOD gave it to us or not that is what we all have "free will". This is what gives us all a right to believe and think what we want. As for me I believe in a higher power other than myself and that is my GOD given right. May we all one day live in peace and be able to disagree without the hate or disrespect for one another. For anyone reading this I mean no disrespect for your belief or non belief. I do hope you have a good life and you are happy with life and are making it the best life you have at this moment.
Thanks for posting this. It is much needed. If people are truelly believers of Atheism, or Christianity or whatever, people aren't seriously following those beliefs if they get so mad they have to insult one another. At that point, in my opinion, they have gone towards fanaticism because they are going against the very core of that belief. In other words, if you are an atheist you have nothing to defend, if you are a Christian, you are not supposed to get angry in the defense of what you believe to prove a point.
Which is why some of us get our hands on the oldest texts possible and then make an informed decision.
If Rob Bell teaches that Truth is subjective and based on a person’s own preferences, then he is a heretic. Anyone who believes that their feelings have anything to do with Truth (Christ), then they do not understand the message of the Bible. The whole message of the Bible is that Christ is the Truth and it is that if we believe in and on Him we would experience eternal life. Truth is objective, that is what makes it true, it’s objectivity.
I couldn't agree with you more. Truth is objective. And the truth is – all organized religion is a farcical con.
I have read all of Rob Bell's books, have seen most of his Nooma videos, and occassionally listen to his Sunday sermons. With that being said, I am aware that what he says at the beginning of each always turns out to be what you hadn't expected. Since the book has not come out, we cannot begin to know what his words will be and where it will lead us. But I can promise that it will make you think. It will make you want to know more. It will make you understand some things that were once unknown to you(historical background in particular).
I believe his approach to the Word is refreshing for a new generation of believers as well as non believers. I was a none believer just a few short years ago and i can tell you that hearing the same old words and descriptions of things was not helpful to me. However, hearing things the way that Rob puts them has drawn me to dig deeper in my understand of God and who He is. Rob in no way tells me what to believe. In fact, a lot of what he preaches is in the form of questions.
Please read the book for yourself and then decide what you think.
Just beware the false prophet! that skillet is HOT! ps. Did he get your 10%?
I am going to read the book. I had no idea an actual school of thought like this existed, though I have known in my heart and soul for many years that this is the way it is. LOVE your fellow people to the best of your ability, you will not be punished forever! I believe there is a God, and (S?)he would NOT torture (her?)his children forever! "I love you more than your mother, disobey me and you will burn and suffer for all of eternity" WTH? NO! God is a loving God, NOT a hateful, violent, vengeful one.
Now I know there are others who believe as I do, and that there is a name for it. I do not neccessarily believe Jesus was the son of God, though, so I do not know that I can call myself Christian. But I can call myself a "universalist".
Amen.
I couldn't agree more. I think all of those making comments need to understand his teaching style before automatically condemning him. It will be interesting to see what his book is truly about and how it may challenge us.
Rachel-
What does teaching style have to do with the doctrine he teaches?
Sally-
God does hate- he hates sin. That said, he does not hate the sinner, but the sin.
Falsifying a fallacy does not make it right.
As a Unitarian Universalist, practicing a Christian religious tradition that goes back hundreds of years, including one of the first religiously open societies in Eastern Europe, I must challenge the idea that "Universalism" is a new concept. I'd highly suggest that the authors of this article check their facts a tad. I do admit that it is new to see it spoken about in the news... but it is not new! UUs have been preaching inclusion and love for a long time! Welcome! Don't forget to grab a cup of coffee.
I thought UUs were know for their uber-literacy? Where did you see anyone claim this was a new idea? I only saw that this was a new firestorm, because a formerly fundamentalisH pastor was embrace the theology.
Ah! Christianity light! You're still a frightened, delusional, tax-dodging hypocrite. Just not – until this post of yours – so obnoxiously arrogant about it.
Can you imagine being in heaven, singing songs of praise and love to god as jesus turns up the heat in hell burning the flesh off of your teenager's bones because he/she couldn't believe.Some heaven. Maybe god erases the memories of all the parents in heaven who have offspring burning in hell for billions and billions of years. Lmao. What nonsense.
hilarious....i really AM on the floor laughing....
Make room for me on that floor, Patrick!
that's ridiculous! How am I supposed to enjoy my Heaven knowing that people not like me get there too?!
Wow! Where's the "Like" button when you need it?
Religion kills; plant a tree, read a book, save a child.
I am not a universalist in the sense that I do not believe there is a hell. But I do believe that everyone on earth who lives a just loving life is as destined for heaven as the most vocal Christian proclaiming his beliefs. The important point is, HOW A PERSON LIVES, not what he claims.
Universalists don't believe in hell.
Imagine; a Christian (or Hebrew, or Islamist)hating one of their own. That's a novel idea...
A true believer of ANY dogma hates anyone who challenges their beliefs. It's fear, pure and simple. The more beliefs there are out there in the world, the more fearful a believer becomes. What if he's wrong? What if he believes in the wrong god? What happens, then, when he dies?
Dear Kate... You highlight the word dogma. Many people have faith, not in dogma, not in a written word, not in a book but in a reality that pervades their lives. Believe what you will. As a christian I know budhists that I feel have a better chance at making it to heaven than the rest of us. They live their faith.
Go figure – "good" Christians are against the idea of Universalism. This is a surprise? Of course they don't want every human on earth joining their little VIP club in the sky. Little do they know, acting like that is in DIRECT CONFLICT with the teachings of Jesus Christ, and anyone who's against this, is on an express lane straight to h e double hockey sticks.
Wow...a great restatement of John 3:17... "that none should perish"
John 8:23-24
23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
What do you have to say about these verses? This is what Jesus had to say.
I disagree with the statement that "good" Christians don't want others to enter heaven. We believe that God wants us to spread the word of his love and life with others so that they may have a life with him. This isn't high school and we want everyone to join the Glee Club.
I'll agree that some folks take this a bit too far in my opinion, by beating people with the message and dejecting them if they don't believe, but I am not the judge of their actions. But that is another topic alltogether.
Wrong. That's what the wizards in the Jesus Marketing Department had to say. Motivational poster on their office wall = There's a sucker born every minute.
Sorry Alan, I missed your comment. If you imply the above/below is hell/heaven and thus we are in hell now, no, Ido not agree with that concept. Gen 1:2, translated from Chaldean vs the KJV states" The earth was not yet. Sin, death and misery were at the edge of the abyss" (hell), which is further backed up as God separates heaven and earth with a "dome" ( sky, implying the entire universe). Thus hell is separate and distinct from heaven or earth.
I also don't consider myself a "good" Christian. To me there is no such thing. Christians are sinners just like everyone else. Just because we believe in Jesus and God doesn't mean we have all the answers for all the world's problems. I believe that "good" Christian, in the context you are refering to is a contradiction of terms. (from my viewpoint of being a Christian anyway)
Now, i'm sure there are some who feel that they are the coined term "good" Christian....but as i posted earlier, not for me to judge. and if they do feel they are such a thing, then they need to humble themselves a bit.
"Worship Me or I'll torture you forever." Boy, that's the loving God for me! "I'm giving you Free Will, but if you exercise it against my wishes, I'll torture you forever." Infinite punishment for finite crimes. Lay some more of this "loving" God's "Divine Justice" rap on me.
What value is love if it is not freely given?
Yes! on me too!
We are one of the very few creatures to which God gave free will. YOU have a choice to make. YOU either play by the rules or suffer the consequences. This is nothing out of the ordinary in any facet of anyone's life. Why do non-believers try to make God's law any different than any of man's laws.....if you do the crime you will do the time. Many criminals face sentences that will last as long as their days on this Earth, but they really couldn't sentence you to more than that can they? Well, God's punishment is not restricted to the time for which you are here on Earth. Whether you believe or not, you have been told the rules of the game. Ignorance and denial of law does not cut it in man's court and it won't cut it in God's court either.
Oh my.
God does not rule in hell, God does not send people to hell, God would prefer hell to not exist because it is a place of sin and darkness. People do it to themselves. God sent Jesus Christ in order to help us, to save us from hell, because he would rather we all join Him. God created the world to be sinless, but because He also granted man freewill, we rebelled against Him.
So if I have it correctly – here's this book written by Bronze Age nomads and goat herders telling me of the existence of this God that I should worship. No proof or justification whatsoever, just mellennia-old heresay. Just like the Koran, the Vedas, or the scriptures of hundrerds of other religions and gods that Man has dreamed up. A book riddled with inaccuracies, contradictions, and some of the most morally bankrupt ideas in print. Slavery. Genocide. Human sacrifice. These things are endorsed, in most cases ORDERED, by this kind and loving God. And I should just embrace and believe this book without any kind of evidence, because faith is a GOOD thing. The book says so itself. Have I missed anything?
God does not rule in hell, God does not send people to hell, God would prefer hell to not exist because it is a place of sin and darkness. People do it to themselves. God sent Jesus Christ in order to help us, to save us from hell, because he would rather we all join Him. God created the world to be sinless, but because He also granted man freewill, we rebelled against Him.
If God would rather hell not exist, it wouldn't exist. How can something occur that is not God's will? If I'm headed to Hell because of my own sins, even the sin of denying Him and His son, God could still stop it if He chose to. He's God, its HIS decision. If you see a child reaching for a flame and don't stop him, its YOUR will that he get burned.
And Jesus was the way out? The only way God can forgive these imperfect creations of His is for blood to be spilled? God can't just forgive us out of the kindness of His heart, a human sacrifice has to take place? Aside from the fact that its a ridiculous story – God sacrificed Himself to Himself to talk Himself out of punishing people for things they didn't do.
Why should I believe this story is true but not believe, say, the story that Mohammed rose to heaven on a winged horse?
Hell is a bi-product of His will; His will being that we have the free choice to choose to follow Him or not. If we do not have free will, what real value does that which is left have? Also, those who are saved and not saved were known by Him from the beginning- not all people are saved. This is how predestination and freewill coincide.
"God sacrificed Himself to Himself to talk Himself out of punishing people for things they didn't do."
Things they (we) didn't do? So we are sinless? Or always morally correct? Jesus, as God, was the only being capable of sinlessness and was killed as a spotless sacrifice. God hates sin, and rather than pouring out His wrath on us, Jesus took it all, as the only one capable of bearing it.
To ask someone of one religion to explain why another religion is wrong is a bit of a moot point. Why ever would you accept my arguments if you do not believe what I believe which is that all other religions are wrong since Christ provides the only way?
"here's this book written by Bronze Age nomads and goat herders telling me of the existence of this God that I should worship. No proof or justification whatsoever, just mellennia-old heresay. Just like the Koran, the Vedas, or the scriptures of hundreds of other religions and gods that Man has dreamed up. A book riddled with inaccuracies, contradictions, and some of the most morally bankrupt ideas in print."
First- The Bible was written across thousands of years by kings, philosophers, religious officials, etc. Although they are only the vessels by which God could record his truth. It was not written at any single period by simpletons. There is far more proof for the Bible than against. Read anything by Lee Strobel, who came to faith when he, as an unbeliever, investigated such evidence.
Second- Someone who truly knows the Bible would tell you that there are no contradictions. Only those to which the truth has not been revealed would say that. "Genocide" occurred in the Old Testament because before Jesus Christ, there was no other way to purify the earth of sin. The purpose of the history in the Old Testament is to show how hopeless things were before Christ made another way. Slavery seems to be put in a pretty negative light in the story of Moses saving the Israelites from slavery. Slavery is often used as a metaphor, that we are to be like slaves in humility and obedience, not that slavery itself is okay. Human sacrifice is good? Where? The stories of Isaac and Jephthah's daughter are foreshadowing of the death of Jesus Christ, and doesn't mean that the act is necessarily right. In the case of Isaac, God sent an angle to stop the act.
" Now they sin more and more;
they make idols for themselves from their silver,
cleverly fashioned images,
all of them the work of craftsmen.
It is said of these people,
“They offer human sacrifices!
They kiss[a] calf-idols!” Hosea 13:2
Human sacrifice= sin. There are many sins that God is able to use for His will, that doesn't make them good.
Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists.
Blaise Pascal
Supposed to be "angel".
What I find interesting is the claim by many that the King James Bible is the "true word of God" by many who slam the "Catholic" bible.
Don't they realize that the KJB is nothing but an English translation of the Catholic bible?
And both are poor copies of previous texts.
Yes and No. I mean, you're aware that there are different books included in each one right? So, that's kind of a significant difference. I get your overall point, and mostly it's good one. I just get frustrated with smug pronouncements about other people's faith...when it's clear the smug person doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks.
@ Kevin, yes Kevin, I am aware that some groups dropped some of the books in the original King James Bible. That does not make the books good or bad, just not available for some to read if they not aware they have to look elsewhere.
The Catholic Bible contains books that the King James version (and all other modern translations used by Protestants) do not. These extra books are called the Apocrypha. Some Christians believe the King James translation from 1611 is the only acceptable one, but many of us do not. We recognize it's just one of the translations from the original Greek and Hebrew.
@Unikraken, actually more modern translations of the original Aramaic, Greek, Latin, are more accurate (close to original meanings) and too the point because of better understanding of linguistics.
(none of this addresses the validity of what the bible means)
It's about how Catholics interpret that Bible that is different, not that the King James Bible is, at the core, saying anything contrary to what is said in other versions.
@dnsmith
But I thought your point was that there was no meaningful difference between the two. So, I said there are different contents, which seems less than a triviality. And I conceded that much of the content is the same. What IS the point you are trying to make?
The truth is the "Catholic Bible" has the same books as does the KJV Bible. The Apocrypha refer to texts which are left out of officially sanctioned versions ('canon') of the Bible. The term means 'things hidden away,' which implies secret or esoteric literature. However, none of these texts were ever considered secret.
In some Protestant Bibles, they are placed between the New and Old Testament. In the Roman Catholic Bibles the books are interspersed with the rest of the text. In this case they are also called 'Deuterocanonical', which means 'secondary canon.' The books on this page are all Deuterocanonical.
Jerome rejected the Deuterocanonical books when he was translating the Bible into Latin circa 450 CE, (see the Vulgate). This was because no Hebrew version of these texts could be found, even though they were present in the Greek Old Testament (the Septuagint). However, they eventually were accepted by the Church, and most of them remained part of the Bible. Protestants rejected these books during the Reformation as lacking divine authority. They either excised them completely or placed them in a third section of the Bible. The Roman Catholic Council of Trent, on the other hand, declared in 1546 that the Deuterocanonical books were indeed divine.
Of these books, Tobias, Judith, the Wisdom of Solomon, Baruch, and Maccabees, remain in the Catholic Bible. First Esdras, Second Esdras, Epistle of Jeremiah, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, Prayer of Manasseh, Prayer of Azariah, and Laodiceans are not today considered part of the Catholic apocrypha.
With one exception, all of these books are considered 'Old Testament'. The apocryphal New Testament 'Letter of Paul to the Laodiceans', was once incorporated in many versions of the Bible. However Laodiceans is now considered just a pastiche of other Epistles, and is omitted from contemporary Bibles.
There are many other apocryphal books, which do not fall into the 'Deuterocanonical' category, such as the many additional New Testament Gospels, and the apocalyptic book of Enoch. Some of these can be found in the Apocrypha section.
Here's the deal, early on, before the priests had the deal dialed in, they would say worship God(s), give me 10% and I'll cure your sick, provide good harvests, keep the bugs away etc. But then they couldn't, children died, floods, locusts etc, the people came and beat there heads with sticks. So they learned, they changed the game, worship God, give me 10% and God will grant you perfect, everlasting life after you're dead, dead folks tell no tales. Then as added incentive they added, oh yeah if you're bad you'll burn in hell forever, again after you're dead, (no need for proof). Then they carved it into rocks, then put pen to paper. So here we are still with the same deal. But the priests are losing their grip, they don't burn folks at the stake for saying that's a load of BS anymore, so soon we will shed the yoke of 10%, blind faith and Sunday mornings, then the Sky People will visit us, I only hope and pray they don't eat brains.
Amen!
...somehow I think you will be safe...lol
Nice. Did you come up with that all by yourself? Again, why is it so hard for people like you to believe that God became man and left us His word that tells us who He is, how He's like, how to live, and what life will be like when our life is over here on this earth? The thing that seperates Jesus and Christianity from religion is that God is responsible for making us right with Him and not us. Religion tells us we have to do this or that and can't do that or this and maybe when our life is over the good out weighs all the bad. Christianity is trusting in Jesus's sacrifice. He is the one responsible for changing us. We can never be "good" enough to be right with God. We can never do enough to make Him accept us. What can we offer Him; the one who created everything? God came here as a man and do something none of us could. That was offer God a perect and sinless sacrifice. All we have to do is acknowledge and accept that. Many will not and continue to deny Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior. That is your right to refuse to accept Jesus as "The way, Truth, and Life". You can also deny that God even exists. He will never force Himself on people who refuse to believe in the truth. That doesn't change the fact that I love people too much to remain silent.
Reply to Mike: Yes I did come up with that by myself, the sky people I threw in for fun. I hope you never lose your faith.
Ants?: LOL...
Do you have your beer tested first before you drink it? probably not unless you make your own brew...
Either you "Trust" and have "Faith" that the brewer isn't poisening you, or you just don't care...
I can assure you you have "Faith"...it's what or who you put that faith in...all of us use faith, hope, and some type of love (value of)
I hope and prayer your story changes...in the meantime...enjoy your beer!
ANTS?:
Where did you get the 10% from? 10% of what? smiles...
how do you falseify a myth?
Is George Washington a myth too? We know more about Jesus than anyone else in human history. People were murdered because they choose to live for him and refused to deny Him. You may find it hard to believe that God took on human form and lived amoung us and died for the sins of mankind, but many do and have even died refusing to believe something else. The truth is Jesus is who He claimed to be or not. He's the only way to have a relationship with God or not. We all have the choice to accept or reject Him. One day our lives will end and we will not be able to deny the truth any longer.
Mike & mike...two sides of the same coin, though they imagine themselves worlds apart.
Both glib and confrontational. Both oversimplifiy things, and overstate their case. Both close-minded adherents to a worldview they aren't willing to question. Which makes you wonder how secure they really are in those beliefs?
We know more about him than anyone in human history? What color was his hair? How tall was he? Did he like red wine or beer? Truth is we know little about him, but some of what others say about him.
And just because people died for their beliefs lends nothing to the credibility of the claims about this man.
@ Mike
"We know more about Jesus than anyone else in human history"
Uuuhhh, WHAT? We actually know hardly ANYTHING about Jesus other than what's written about him in the bible. Why do you think it is that christian scholars still debate on so many facets of his life, and why so many things about him are still a mystery? So to suggest that we know more about Jesus than anyone else is just..well, insanity.
We know more about Leonardo Da Vinci, more about Einstein, more about Abraham Lincoln, more about Madonna and Angelina Jolie, than we do about Jesus. The list goes on and on.
The "problem" as I see it, is that none of the pastors or reverends has any authority to decide what is truth and what is "false doctrin". So much has evolved over the centuries that deviates from what appears to be the essence of Jesus' message that we now perceive the crooked to be straight, and the straight to be crooked. For anyone to claim they have that authority is proof of their "taking partners with God" for which one must be rather cautious, I'd say! That Bell failed to "tickle the ears" of the establishment, causes me great joy!
The "problem" has nothing to do with what you and I think, what your opinion is versus my opinion. The "problem" is that questioning and/or proclaiming there is no hell contradicts what (none other than) Jesus Himself clearly taught (Luke 16:19-31). Opinions are fine and dandy, but I would not want to call myself a Christian and somehow teach something contrary to what the Leader of the Christian faith said (not to mention the other overwhelming number of passages in the Bible that teach that hell is a real, eternal place).
It is much easier, however, to sell books and fill up a church building by telling people what they want to hear. It is called "tickling people's ears".
You got it right on the mark. And it really doesn't matter what their pet little beliefs are, won't change what is actually going to happen to them – which they will bring upon themselves, one way or the other. Some people just can't accept there is a power greater than themselves to whom they are beholden 🙂
sounds great if we all get to go....but kinda sucks that people like Ted Bundy gets to go to heaven...lol
@Coach P
Of course, in John there's a famous verse about loving the world so that all might now perish. (Don't get into a debate about 'might' unless you're willing to translate the original Greek.) So, the real problem comes out. We look at the Bible as one book. When in fact it is a collection of many books with at times contradictory ideas. You quote Luke to make you case, but John says something else. And then Paul's letters say something else. The problem is thinking there is one right way. For Christ's sake (literally), remember that the four original stories about Jesus are different. How do you build something simple and black and white out of source material that contradicts itself?