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March 3rd, 2011
01:25 PM ET
My Take: The Bible really does condemn homosexualityBy Robert A. J. Gagnon, Special to CNN
In her recent CNN Belief Blog post “The Bible’s surprisingly mixed messages on sexuality,” Jennifer Wright Knust claims that Christians can’t appeal to the Bible to justify opposition to homosexual practice because the Bible provides no clear witness on the subject and is too flawed to serve as a moral guide. As a scholar who has written books and articles on the Bible and homosexual practice, I can say that the reality is the opposite of her claim. It’s shocking that in her editorial and even her book, "Unprotected Texts," Knust ignores a mountain of evidence against her positions. It raises a serious question: does the Left read significant works that disagree with pro-gay interpretations of Scripture and choose to simply ignore them? Owing to space limitations I will focus on her two key arguments: the ideal of gender-neutral humanity and slavery arguments. Knust's lead argument is that sexual differentiation in Genesis, Jesus and Paul is nothing more than an "afterthought" because "God's original intention for humanity was androgyny." It’s true that Genesis presents the first human (Hebrew adam, from adamah, ground: “earthling”) as originally sexually undifferentiated. But what Knust misses is that once something is “taken from” the human to form a woman, the human, now differentiated as a man, finds his sexual other half in that missing element, a woman. That’s why Genesis speaks of the woman as a “counterpart” or “complement,” using a Hebrew expression neged, which means both “corresponding to” and “opposite.” She is similar as regards humanity but different in terms of gender. If sexual relations are to be had, they are to be had with a sexual counterpart or complement. Knust cites the apostle Paul’s remark about “no ‘male and female’” in Galatians. Yet Paul applies this dictum to establishing the equal worth of men and women before God, not to eliminating a male-female prerequisite for sex. Applied to sexual relations, the phrase means “no sex,” not “acceptance of homosexual practice,” as is evident both from the consensus of the earliest interpreters of this phrase and from Jesus' own sayings about marriage in this age and the next. All the earliest interpreters agreed that "no 'male and female,'" applied to sexual relations, meant "no sex." That included Paul and the ascetic believers at Corinth in the mid-first century; and the church fathers and gnostics of the second to fourth centuries. Where they disagreed is over whether to postpone mandatory celibacy until the resurrection (the orthodox view) or to begin insisting on it now (the heretical view). Jesus’ view According to Jesus, “when (people) rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels” (Mark 12:25). Sexual relations and differentiation had only penultimate significance. The unmediated access to God that resurrection bodies bring would make sex look dull by comparison. At the same time Jesus regarded the male-female paradigm as essential if sexual relations were to be had in this present age. In rejecting a revolving door of divorce-and-remarriage and, implicitly, polygamy Jesus cited Genesis: “From the beginning of creation, ‘male and female he made them.’ ‘For this reason a man …will be joined to his woman and the two shall become one flesh’” (Mark 10:2-12; Matthew 19:3-12). Jesus’ point was that God’s limiting of persons in a sexual union to two is evident in his creation of two (and only two) primary sexes: male and female, man and woman. The union of male and female completes the sexual spectrum, rendering a third partner both unnecessary and undesirable. The sectarian Jewish group known as the Essenes similarly rejected polygamy on the grounds that God made us “male and female,” two sexual complements designed for a union consisting only of two. Knust insinuates that Jesus wouldn’t have opposed homosexual relationships. Yet Jesus’ interpretation of Genesis demonstrates that he regarded a male-female prerequisite for marriage as the foundation on which other sexual standards could be predicated, including monogamy. Obviously the foundation is more important than anything predicated on it. Jesus developed a principle of interpretation that Knust ignores: God’s “from the beginning” creation of “male and female” trumps some sexual behaviors permitted in the Old Testament. So there’s nothing unorthodox about recognizing change in Scripture’s sexual ethics. But note the direction of the change: toward less sexual license and greater conformity to the logic of the male-female requirement in Genesis. Knust is traveling in the opposite direction. Knust’s slavery analogy and avoidance of closer analogies Knust argues that an appeal to the Bible for opposing homosexual practice is as morally unjustifiable as pre-Civil War appeals to the Bible for supporting slavery. The analogy is a bad one. The best analogy will be the comparison that shares the most points of substantive correspondence with the item being compared. How much does the Bible’s treatment of slavery resemble its treatment of homosexual practice? Very little. Scripture shows no vested interest in preserving the institution of slavery but it does show a strong vested interest from Genesis to Revelation in preserving a male-female prerequisite. Unlike its treatment of the institution of slavery, Scripture treats a male-female prerequisite for sex as a pre-Fall structure. The Bible accommodates to social systems where sometimes the only alternative to starvation is enslavement. But it clearly shows a critical edge by specifying mandatory release dates and the right of kinship buyback; requiring that Israelites not be treated as slaves; and reminding Israelites that God had redeemed them from slavery in Egypt. Paul urged enslaved believers to use an opportunity for freedom to maximize service to God and encouraged a Christian master (Philemon) to free his slave (Onesimus). How can changing up on the Bible’s male-female prerequisite for sex be analogous to the church’s revision of the slavery issue if the Bible encourages critique of slavery but discourages critique of a male-female paradigm for sex? Much closer analogies to the Bible’s rejection of homosexual practice are the Bible’s rejection of incest and the New Testament’s rejection of polyamory (polygamy). Homosexual practice, incest, and polyamory are all (1) forms of sexual behavior (2) able to be conducted as adult-committed relationships but (3) strongly proscribed because (4) they violate creation structures or natural law. Like same-sex intercourse, incest is sex between persons too much structurally alike, here as regards kinship rather than gender. Polyamory is a violation of the foundational “twoness” of the sexes. The fact that Knust chooses a distant analogue (slavery) over more proximate analogues (incest, polyamory) shows that her analogical reasoning is driven more by ideological biases than by fair use of analogies. Knust’s other arguments are riddled with holes. In claiming that David and Jonathan had a homosexual relationship she confuses kinship affection with erotic love. Her claim that “from the perspective of the New Testament” the Sodom story was about “the near rape of angels, not sex between men” makes an "either-or" out of Jude 7’s "both-and." Her canard that only a few Bible texts reject homosexual practice overlooks other relevant texts and the fact that infrequent mention is often a sign of significance. It is disturbing to read what passes nowadays for expert “liberal” reflections on what the Bible says about homosexual practice. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Robert A. J. Gagnon. |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor’s Note: 
I know one thing: When Jesus returns the second time, all those who are not under the "blood stained banner of Christ" will be struck dead and later burned up. Dont forget, the Bible says fire came down from heaven (sky) and burned up the gays and the straight in Sodom and Gomorrah.
Whoops, I thought I was at Fox. I am sorry, I realize that most peeps here like the colorectal pleasures.
what a NUTCASE...jus another fundamentalist christian fundie...spewing evil and hatred t'words gays (and anyone else who does'nt fit their 'narrow minded' ideals..) . Look at his eyes...BLANK..and CLOSED...jus like the Mormons ...i worked next to..unavailable for ANY 'realistic' discussion...blank stare...mindless eyes...and FIRM in their belief that "THEIRS" is the only way....lol.!!!!..REMEMBER....HUMPHREY BOGART (star of screen,) said it BEST...to his wife (Lauren Bacall), " Listen Babe.... FOR ME...WHEN ITS OVER.......ITS OVER..!!!!! , lol......
So that's your take, what exactly is your point, Mr. Gagnon?
Do you think discrimination against gay folks is OK?
Should other Bible followers hate and kill them?
You guys can believe whatever nonsense you want, but when it comes to the law and civil rights there's a higher power that trumps your holy book – reason.
Is this news or just more JewMedia bashing christianity?
All this bickering back & forth is making my head hurt. So much pride from every angle. I know it sounds crazy, but I recently watched a movie that really helped me better understand every side of this conversation. I highly recommend everyone watch this new movie called "Reconciliation." The website is http://www.reconciliationmovie.com
I might not agree with everything the film had to say, but I can respect a film that gives everyone a voice and I promise you will turn the movie off and ponder it for a very long time.
Not true. Jesus was Gay!
I honestly don't see how what the bible says should make a difference to anyone. It's just a book. Why so many people actually believe that it's the word of god should be the real discussion.
Why is CNN wasting our time with this story?
Well, you're the one who read it. You could have read the stock market report instead.
...cause its your God given choice to do so.
Given all the debate and commentary about different interpretations of the bible , it is clear that the Chris-tian god, a purportedly omnipotent being, has a communication and marketing weakness. It can't reliably get its message out.
So, Chris-tians, think about this a bit more. This is an all-powerful being that you are claiming, yet it apparently needs a clunky book to get its message across. and the messaging is subject to multiple interpretations. That's utterly ri-diculous for a "god". An all-powerful being could easily just insert its message into its subjects minds, no book required and no room for interpretation. Therefore, the Chris-tian god must be pure fiction. Case closed.
God's "sending equipment" works. Our "reception" is faulty. We are so concerned with all the environmental input cluttering up the signal that we need a printed map to find our way. Kinda like autism, our incoming signals are so overwhelming that it's hard to single out one over the others. That's why we need quiet time to meditate/pray and to quiet our minds. Quiet is a rare commodity in this age, though.
hillbilleter, your statement does not hold water. Remember, this is a supposedly omnipotent being we're discussing here. It should be capable of getting its message out without issues.
Unless, of course, you think that your "god" is not omnipotent. That lack of omnipotence sure seems to be the case for that Christian "god".
PeterVN
Given all the debate and commentary about different interpretations of the bible , it is clear that the Chris-tian god, a purportedly omnipotent being, has a communication and marketing weakness. It can't reliably get its message out.
So, Chris-tians, think about this a bit more. This is an all-powerful being that you are claiming, yet it apparently needs a clunky book to get its message across. and the messaging is subject to multiple interpretations. That's utterly ri-diculous for a "god". An all-powerful being could easily just insert its message into its subjects minds, no book required and no room for interpretation. Therefore, the Chris-tian god must be pure fiction. Case closed.
PeterVN If the case is closed for you, then why do you keep commenting? Surely you are content that your 100% right, correct? Why keep on posting then?
@Terminator, that should be obvious to you. The reason for the continued posting is that many others obviously don't get it yet, and the world suffers for their religious idiocy. Until the religious idiocy dissipates, we will continue to rage against it. Get used to it.
Seems to me there are a lot of post's against the Bible and refuting what is The Truth. Just like the author of this article tried to do was tell what the Bible states which is that Hom0-'s3-'xuality is wrong. Not saying that ste-'aling and such aren't just has wrong but if one repents they stop ste-'aling right? Same goes for the G-'ay behavior....you make a choice to stop the behavior.
Now with that said all those that say it isn't a choice I say this. Lets suppose it isn't and G-'ay people have this DNA that causes it...I guess we could say the same for murd-'erer's, thi-'efs as well. Since everyone wants to say it isn't a choice there are serial ki-'llers out there that say they didn't have a choice either in doing their ki-'llings.
Just because some believe themselves to be Kangaroos, doesn't make it so.
Hop, hop, hop.
Amen.
Actually, that's sort of true. Many times, a serial killer cannot stop murdering. He/she is psychopathic and is insane. Cannot control the urge to kill.
But to make a better argument, those other things your listen hurt someone else. Gay does not. So quit being ignorant and start loving and serving your brother. That's how you get into heaven, according to Jesus.
You are about as likely to become left-handed as you are gay, but nobody seems to consider left-handedness a choice,... well, not anymore anyway. They use to beat kids for trying to write using their left hand, and the Bible actually has more negative verses about being left-handed than being gay.
Jesus had a choice. He could have kept his towel on, but he chose to take off his towel and be nekkid in front of his disciples.
He could have washed their feet with his clothes on. But he didn't. He was nekkid.
Being nekkid is considered a sin, so he was not a "spotless lamb of god". He was a rabidly gay jew with a foot fetish who pretended to be all-knowing, yet he didn't know about many things, like germs and epilepsy.
Jesus was a fraud. A liar. And he was executed for heresy for saying he was god when he very clearly was not.
There. Nailed it for you.
Jesus didn't claim he was god. He actually said that the Father was greater than he and prayed to The Father in the garden. It wasn't until that pagan Constantine gather Bishops together for the Nicene Council did Jesus get deified...it sure made controlling the pagan masses easier since the 3 = 1 made pagans believe they were worshiping 3 great gods while others could pretend they were worshiping one.
Bottom line ..... its your book ...... you believe it.
Leave the non-christians alone.... By the way, I have yet met a true Christian.
I have yet to meet a real Brooklynny..does that mean they don't exist?
Brooklynny, you should get out more.
The bible is fiction. And our country is not supposed to make laws based on religion. Gay people should have the same rights as the rest of us.
Has someone said on here that we should use the Bible to make laws here in the USA?? Or is this just another hater not paying attention to what is actually being said?
Psalms 9:15-17
Jeremiah 5:4
Proverbs 1:7
Exodus 4:21
Exodus 7:3
Romans 9:17
Revelation 12:9
Romans 11:36
Exodus 10:1
Exodus 14:4, 8; Psalm 136:15
Exodus 7:14-15:21
Exodus 14:16-18
Joshua 11:20,
and just as He does with ...
Isaiah 66:24; Matthew 7:13-14; Romans 9:18-22; Revelation 21:8.
Amen.
@HeavenSent,
The Skeptics Annotated Bible has volumes to say about your voluminous list of buy-bull gibberish:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
Bo,
Hmmm, let us see what some of the contemporary experts (NT, historical Jesus exegetes) have to say about the "Son of God, I am")
Matt 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."
Not said by the historical Jesus, but more embellishment my Matthew. wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/111_Invocation_without_Obedience
Matt 9:6 Passage notes "Son of Man" not Son of God.
wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/127_Sickness_and_Sin
Matt 10:32-33, ""Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; /33/ but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven"
"Ludemann [Jesus, 344] states " this is a prophetic admonition from the post-Easter community. For it, Jesus and the Son of man were 'identical in the future: Jesus will return in the near future as the Son of man with the clouds of heaven. In his earthly life he was not yet the Son of man, since he will come to judgment only with the clouds of heaven (Dan. 7.13f) at the end of days' (Haenchen)."
Matt 11:27 "All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/045_Father_and_Son and
"Lüdemann [Jesus, 330f] invokes the classic description from K. Hase of this passage as a "thunderbolt from the Johannine heavens." He notes the typically Johannine reference to mutual knowledge between Father and Son, and the absolute use of "Son" as a designation for Jesus. In dismissing the saying's authenticity, Luedemann also notes the similarity to ideas in the post-Easter commissioning scene at Matt 28:18, "All authority has been given to me ..."
Matt 1:20- 225 (another "pretty, wingie thingie requirement)
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
Amen.
@HeavenSent.
The nonsense within the stinking pile of John quotes that you just defecated onto CNN is dealt with in detail here:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/1.html
Interesting that gay is a sin. However, I never see the "correct" religous people fighting to save families and M-F marriages.
Are you out there condeming those 'straight' M-F couples who cheat, beat and abuse one another, then flee a marriage? No, you don't. But, yet I see you "Correct" religous people fighting to keep gay couples from being married in even a civil union when staright marriages are trashed everyday. Coverting neighbors wive, cheating and stealing – sounds like the start of a list of 10 Commandments and yet you are worried about little ol me?
Is this the defense of marriage act that the right conservatives seek to defend? The right to trash your partner, abuse them, cheat on them and then flee a marriage? (I am thinking of a word that begins with a 'h' and ends with a 't') Not to mention the kids affected. How about you "correct" religious people go and work the kinks out of the 'straight' marrigaes before you tell the rest of us how terrible we are. Separation fo church and state is what this country was founded on, yes? But it seems separation only on your terms and what you want.
Help me nswer these couple of little questions. God is perfect? yes.
We were made in God's image? yes
So how is it that God makes no mistakes and made me in His image, but I am wrong to be myself? Who I am, living my life to the best of my ability, asking for & recieving God's help and guidance, being nice to people, not judging them, trying to abide by the 10 Commandments (which by the way does not say, "Thou shall NOT be gay."). If being a 'correct' religious person means being nosey, arrogant, judgemental and mean person, then you know what? I would rather keep being me and take my chances when I die.
God is perfect. Man has free will to choose to love and follow Him (TRUTH) or love and follow satan (LIES).
Included with the 10 Commandments, is the Book of Proverbs stating that the Lord specifically regards "six things the Lord hateth, and the seventh His soul detesteth." which are:
A proud look.
A lying tongue
Hands that shed innocent blood
A heart that devises wicked plots
Feet that are swift to run into mischief
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
Him that soweth discord among brethren
Condensed to:
PRIDE
GREED
ENVY
LUST
GLUTTONY
SLOTH
WRATH
While there are seven sins, this list is considerably different from the traditional one, with only pride clearly being in both lists.
Other (sins) listed in scriptures ... see the Epistle to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21), includes more of the traditional seven sins, although the list is substantially longer: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, "and such like".[5] Since Saint Paul goes on to say that the persons who commit these sins "shall not inherit the Kingdom of God", they are usually listed as mortal sins rather than Capital Vices.
That's the condensed version from His truth (the Bible). To learn in detail about the above, read the Bible.
Amen.
Josei, God loves you and made you in His image. You have choosen a different path. I'm sure that you're a nice person.
God does not hate you. But, he wants you to come to repentance and obedience to His Will not yours.
Christians are not to be arrogant. althogh, many may come across this way to the one doing the listenting because they just dont want to change their choosen lifestyle- whatever that might be.
We love people. But if you want me to tell you that God thinks that what ever you choose to do is good; well would be a lie.
Evidently, you aren't watching.
There is no sin because the book of Genesis is complete and utter hooey. You can't sin against god because there is no god.
And you can't pin any sin on me because I am not responsible for what other people do anyway.
If a god exists and this god made me this way, then I am not sinning in any way whatsoever. I am not responsible for my genetic problems, nor am I responsible for any environmental damage done to me either.
There is no such thing as sin. Never was. All we have are books written by con-artists and brain-damaged primitive witchdoctors who were probably early examples of pedo-priests. There is nothing inspired about this nonsense at all, much less inspired by some super-being who cannot quite do any better than that.
Christians repeat the lies they have been trained to believe as truth. Same with muslims, jews, etc.
Religion is nothing but lies. There are no true religions. Never have been. Open your eyes to the lies and get out while you can. They will dominate your life and mind. Mental slavery is still slavery. Free your mind and find the truth for yourself.
@Isable – So you are telling me that the praying to God and listening/questionsing what He wants from me is a lie.
I have never felt so much love in my life: Love for others, love that others give me (not the 3 letter s word); fulfilled in my life (not career); un-alone since I finally stopped asking for me. God is leading me on this path and I have been trying my best to listen and follow. Sometime I get scared on this path because it has led me to be so out there, but I ask if this is really what God wants of me and if so to give me strength to do what he wants. When I get strength I can only believe that it is from Him. When I still feel scared then I ask again for help. If none comes, then I assume that I misudnerstood what God wanted.
I didn't ask to get into these discussions (online and in person), but my whole background (Interested in so many things that I always thought I was ADHD) from when I was little has been a work in progress to get me to this point. Why did I go to a certain web page today? I hadn't been there is months. I could be outside. Why did I see the link that brought me here? My plan was to go outside this afternoon and enjoy Gods creations.
So my questions to you are how can judge what God is telling me and tell me that it is my choice when He is helping me and guiding me?
I love all the references to "Romans" here. You mean the letters of Paul written to the church in Rome? Paul, whom never met Jesus (at least in physical form)? Paul who persecuted Christians before his conversion (again, after the death and resurrection of Jesus). Paul's texts are included as an early teaching tool but they do not have the same weight as the Gospels. When did Jesus, not Paul, not the Old Testiment, ever explicitly decry hom-ose-xuality? He says alot about legalism, about compassion, about forgiveness, about not having riches in this world, about serving two masters (God or money), and about love.
Jesus also gave rules against s-ex that is more stringent than today's modern culture and also upheld the OT Laws.
Man changes and can move further and further away from God's truth.
God is the Word. His truth stands for eternity.
Amen.
Mao-
Jesus only commented on adultery, lust and divorce. Even then it's not really clear what he feels about these. The clearest his thinking gets is that a man shouldn't lust over another man's wife, but that's back in the day when a wife was considered property, so I'm not sure how that translates for modern day society. Nothing about gays and no indication that he "also upheld the OT Laws." If anything, Jesus is known for breaking the OT Laws when it suited him.
Phil-
Yes, funny how the self-declared great enemy of the first Christians assumed the leadership, and then took the movement away from Jews, the people that Jesus preached to almost exclusively, and redirected it to the Gentiles. Jesus was a Jew, a rabbi, a Jewish teacher who lectured to other Jews. Then Paul comes around and suddenly everything that Jesus ever said wasn't actually intended for the Jews, but for Gentiles. You can count the number of Gentiles Jesus specifically spoke to on one hand. Funny that.
@NL
"Jesus only commented on adultery, lust and divorce." "If anything, Jesus is known for breaking the OT Laws when it suited him."
So it should be noticed what topics he actually keeps them. The things like carrying a mat vs healing on the Sabbath, like eating food instead of starving, like talking to women, were all set aside as, the word you used was, "convenient" (silly word to use for healing a people regardless of restrictions or treating women with dignity). However things like murder, s-exual conduct, worshiping God alone, etc were all upheld.
Who cares what the bible says?
Jesus warned,
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13
Amen.
You must to some degree since you are writing about it.
Me......and there's a guy with your same name who wrote a lot of books in there. Funny, because Paul was one who persecuted the early church, but he met the risen Christ on the road to Damascus... Read the book of Acts, amazing stuff.
Jesus was gay and had a foot fetish. You cannot avoid the fact that he took off his towel and started cleaning the feet of his "disciples" while naked!
There is no getting around this passage in the bible. He was naked and cleaning feet. Gay foot fetish, anyone? There is no other credible explanation for that passage in the bible. None. All the "disciples" were men. They all got naked together, bathed together, and here's Jesus with his junk flapping in the breeze while he cleans and massages the feet of other naked men.
Jesus was gay and had a foot fetish. There is no other explanation. He never married any woman or had anything to do with women as far as the bible goes. Sounds pretty gay to me!
LOL
Nice to see people with a sense of humor to brighten up this world of serious study.
You are even more stupid. I am laughing my butt off at your stupidity. How can you make such a stupid comment I am cracking up here......and God made you what a sense of humor he has......
PofO, James 1:21.
Amen.
Name*robert-
So, I guess having perfume rubbed on your feet is a perfectly macho thing for any guy to do. Work all day in construction, come home, take off your work boots, and apply some Chanel No. 5 to your feet, or maybe J.Lo's new scent? Maybe later run a bubble bath, light a few candles for around the tub, and play a Kenny G. CD?
"his junk flapping in the breeze" LOL How do you know if it was a windy day or not? LOL
It's very obvious that you have not studied Middle Eastern history and customs. He turned commonplace household greeting into a symbolic ritual. Read some cultural history and you won't stick your foot in it so deep.
hillbilleter – You're up to your neck in it. Or maybe in over your head. I have never heard of greeting people nekkid and washing their feet while having no clothes on. Care to revise your silly response?
Jesus did a demonstration for them... He showed them that Him, being God, came to serve. He humbled himself to the job of what was reserved for the servants of the house... Which is why Peter said "surely YOU will not wash my feet." Jesus then turned it into an example that as he treated them, by humbling himself and washing their feet, so should they humble themselves. The God of the universe came humbly as a servant, and bore our sins.
@HeavenSent
I would love to see indisputable and irrefutable proof that this god thing exists. You can't provide that. Your fairy tale bible is just a book. Ink on paper. That can't be proof. So what have you got? Nothing but a belief. Something your parents forced you into as a child.
You say that the bible is the blueprint of what he wants and how we should live our lives? How many people have you killed for working on the sabbath? The bible says you're supposed to. Kill many women who were not virgins when married? You have to do that too. Oh, but you just want to follow the parts you find convenient.
End all religion. It's a farce that's destroying the world.
Seriously....why should public policy be based upon the wishes of a childhood imaginary friend that insecure adults continue to cling to?
hey stupid, look around you creation itself declares His Glory. When you woke up this morning did your clothes decide for you what you were going to wear? Or did you decide for yourself? What I mean is did you just randomly sit there and all your clothes jump on you. Or did you think and plan. Dah! Big red fire truck
Instead of me telling you, read what he says to you.
Isaiah 43:10-11 (Isaiah 44: 6-8, 24; 45:5-10, 18, 21-22)
1 John 4:6
John 8:47 (Ephesians 4:3-6, 1 Cor 1:10)
Psalm 139:21-22
2 Corinthians 10:3-5 (Ephesians 5:11)
2 Timothy 3:1-2 (Luke 9:23, Proverbs 28:26)
Romans 3:10-18 (John 6:44)
Psalm 10:3-4
Jude 4
Amen.
Name*robert-
Funny, I've loved being out in nature my whole life and I've never seen a rock, a tree, or even a trout with a "Made by God" label on it.
And- 'jumping clothes'?!? My, the imagination of some people!
With great respect, may I ask you to contact
http://pastorecentral.com/contact – he was an Athiest as well. I'm really not being full of myself, i'm just trying to give you
the answers that you wanted. someone that was also an Aitheist can come along side you.
you dont have to believe in God, but He belives in you.
Seriously, why are atheists so darned preachy? Is this a recent thingy? Why do atheists care so very much about the religious beliefs of others. If atheism does not make you happy, don't blame what you are not. Atheists keep showing up like crabs in a bucket, trying to pull everybody else's mojo down. What's with this missionary-type proselytizing of something that is so utterly miserable that they cannot be happy with anyone or for anyone? Something that miserably in the pits of distemper sure doesn't look like an attractive philosophy to me. Now if it put a smile on your face and a song on your lips, that might be an advertisement.
So long as your heart is on fire
will it burn through into your soul.
Heaven hath seen your tears,
but never answered?
A little love hath brought you here,
and today's disdain mortifies
When a man calls, it'll be that whisper
that penetrates such tempered glass
and shatters all you ever knew.
So long as your heart is on fire will it burn through into your soul.
Heaven hath seen your tears, but never answered?
A little love hath brought you here,
and today's disdain mortifies
When a man calls, it'll be that whisper
that penetrates such tempered glass
and shatters all you ever knew.
Your tag says it all. If you are athiest, you should be happy you have it all figured out. HeavenSent knows her stuff, & the Bible is not just ink on paper, the events in it happened. History that does not coincide with your way of thinking is being removed by extremists to cover up the truth. As for one person's analogy that God is a big boy and can do His own telling, we are actually called to spread the good news. It is my sincere prayer that you give your life to Jesus before his return, for He cares for you. You are loved by the creator of the universe <3.
Dee what you don't realize is that archeologist have found the site of Sodom and have now proved through artifacts found there, science and astrology that it wasn't destruction sent by god. It was a large meteor that blew up in earths atmosphere over Austria that caused a blast 100 times the size of a nuclear bomb. They even found ice that dated back to that time period to prove the blast. It was the flying burning rock that took down that city and the ones around it not God. If you were a person living in that time without the science we have today you too would think it was supernatural or a God. Of course a Christian can’t believe that because it would mean the context of how you read those scriptures would be wrong.
Tracey,
You're kidding right? First, there is no way that scientists can categorically state that they have found the correct site.
Secondly, assuming it is the right site anyway, a meteor destroying the place sounds exactly like an act of God!
It's plain and simple:
If you think gay is a sin then don't be gay; if you your gay, then be happy... Everyone else, just mind your own business and look for happiness...
We are minding our business. Your soul depends on knowing what God wants for you and from you. Hence, why Christians tells others about His truth.
Amen.
Heaven Sent,
Please let "God" do his own 'telling'... he's a big boy and quite capable of that, if he's all that you make him out to be.
Noah Tall, he is letting God do His own telling. Read the article. Christians believe that God inspired the Bible. The article is stating what the Bible states, not merely the opinion of the author, as was the case in the article the author refuted.