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March 4th, 2011
04:52 PM ET
Your Take: Does the Bible condemn homosexuality?There were thousands of comments on Thursday's Belief Blog post arguing that the Bible condemns homosexuality, a response to another guest post arguing that the Bible is much more ambiguous on homosexuality than previously thought. Most of the comments appear to doubt the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality - or challenge the wisdom looking to the Bible for guidance on such matters. And, as usual, we're struck by all the atheist comments. They seem to far outnumber believers' comments. Josei Neutralizer kcv You can look at your neighbor and decide that you would NEVER do, act, or speak things that they will do, act, or speak ... but they are looking at you thinking the same! None of us are perfect, and we ALL do things the Bible says not to do (including abominations like eating pork, shellfish, gold, etc..)! Salvatore John
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The answer of course is that it doesn't matter. The god of the old testament was a war mongering, bloodthirsty sociopath if there ever was one. Jesus babbled a bit about his followers not being beholden to "the law" and he famously broke the sabbath, etc. He may have been okay, but that can't be determined through the fog of ancient texts and doesn't matter anyway. Paul and some others came off at times as legalistic in their approach as Jewish orthodoxy was and railed against female priests and women not wearing head covering blah, blah, blah. So who cares what he or anyone else in that book had to say about any modern issue? It simply doesn't matter and decent people, whether they call themselves Christians or not, don't thumb through an old book written by fallible men and edited by other fallible men for pat answers to issues of conscience.
John, only those that reject Jesus believe this lie. Tune in, those that love Jesus know His truth and that it is a reality. When you ever give up your sinful nature, go humble. You too, can see His truth.
Other than that ... stay Romans 1:21-32.
Blah, blah, blah JohnR, you still don't get it. What happened at the beginning is happening at the end and you and others like you prove this prophecy to be true.
Our lives, beginning, middle, and end all are guided by Jesus for those that know His truth and guided by satan, that follow his lies.
So, blah, blah, blah all the way to the eternal flames.
Amen.
HeavenSent – Your hubris will anger your jealous god. Boy are YOU in trouble. And deep down you know it, too.
JohnR, at least I try to save your souls. That's all Jesus asks is that His truth be heard especially to the closed minded non-believers. So, what's your excuse, besides having a big ego and buying into intellects don't believe in God. That is the biggest lie ever and it works all the time because it strokes the ego so welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
HeavenSent-
"at least I try to save your souls."
Yes, and the charming way you engage those you wish to save will surely strain the pearly gates with the flood of newly saved.
Kinda reminds me of a life guard trowing a drowning man an anchor wrapped in chum. 😉
NL, You don't like when I dish out what you dished to me. Amazing. You finally realized how your post reads to me. I have no problem with treating respect with respect. And you?
HeavenSent-
I think that I speak for a lot of folks here when I say that the moment you begin showing people respect by dropping the judgmental "You're headed for hell" answer you have for every criticism we'll start showing you a little more respect, OK?
Iv'e seen the light..from here on end,I will b-blast all woman's bottom blaster's
Since most heterose-xual, married couples do some bottom blasting, Justina must not have many friends.
Debased, debased, debased. Did I mention debased?
Add "bottom blasting" to the list of birth control methods with 100% reliability.
I agree with neutralizer. I am sorry but telling kindergarten children that having two 'mommies' or two 'daddies' is perfectly normal without informing the parents is just wrong. They have to warn the parents when they start s-ex ed but not when they discuss something like ho-mos-exuality? Something wrong there.
I am told not to judge people by God but we are allowed to disagree with a behavior. I disagree with indiscriminate s-ex as well, it doesn't mean that I have an issue with the people. Just like I wouldn't want my children to be taught the s-ex is 'no big deal' I also wouldn't want my children taught that hom-es-exuality is normal in all societies.
BTW I have family members who are g-ay and they know where I stand. We still manage to have great conversations.
Why? What do you think will happen if your little Snotleigh or Preshus is taught that hom o se xuality exists and that it has always existed in humans and many species?
Will their little heads explode? Will they "turn gay"?
Since my children are my children I have the right to teach them MY morals and beliefs. Do I fear that they will 'turn gay'? No, but I have a right to explain to my children the ways of the world.
Isn't it funny that because I don't see the world the way you do, that gives you the right to mock me. And I am in the wrong? I think that you need to realise that not everyone in the world sees the world through your eyes and that means that we are free to have our own thoughts and beliefs.
MY CHILDREN MY RIGHTS.
Tom, Tom. Sin has always existed and will continue to exist for those that hate Jesus. What happened at the beginning ... in the garden of Eden (middle) and what is happening in this end generation (end of 2nd earth age) is all due to not wanting to give up their (your) sinful ways. Therefore, stop telling our children that it's an alternative lifestyle because it's not. It's sin and Christians all know that evil (aka sin and lies) are not allowed in Heaven with Jesus.
Romans 1:21-32.
Amen.
@HeavenSent
I post a comment about your idiotic belief once again:
Hmmm... Once Upon a Time...
The pre-Adamic humans is an old theory (1600's). Some Evangelicals have dusted the theory off, added a gap between Genesis I and Genesis II and by golly, they are in agreement with science on the age of the earth!
They accepted a relatively young age for the Biblical Adam, but said that the ‘old’ human fossils came from pre-Adamite human-like creatures. *snicker, snicker*
Pre-Adamites were also an integral part of the now-discredited gap theory. In this the pre-Adamites were soulless beings which all perished in a catastrophe called ‘Lucifer’s Flood’, which allegedly occurred between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis 1 ‘in the far-distant dateless past’.
The existence of a Pre-Adamic flood is based solely on a loose interpretation of Genesis, there is no clear indication (biblical) that any flood burst forth from the Earth, prior to the story of Noah.
Info taken from: http://creation.com/pre-adamic-man-were-there-human-beings-on-earth-before-adam
Actually, there is no scientific evidence that a worldwide flood occurred at the time of Noah. Many civilizations existed at the time. They never mentioned drowning, or even complained of muddy feet.
Evidently, some Evangelicals are accepting this, and are satisfied that Noah's flood was a local event.
The desperate have adopted theistic evolution, as a last ditch effort to keep their god alive. He is drowning in a sea of scientific discovery.
Too bad, that their belief is disproved by both bible scholars and science. LOL
Cheers!
SadieSadie-
When I was growing up there was just as much stigma attached to a kid growing up with just a mommy or daddy. Lucky for us society has come to accept single parents and there isn't the pressure to marry just "for the children's sake."
@Josei, the Bible condemns all forms of immorality. People just never boasted of sins or demanded to stay sinful until a few decades ago. Pervert society.
@KCV, Jesus commanded us to judge moral matters and said not so doing is evil laziness. Read the whole Gospel again instead of memorizing only a few words from the thousands of pages of the Bible. Jesus also recognized all moral laws in the OT. Read Matthew 5.
@Salvatore, Christian doctrines and most denominations are in harmony. You imagined up things from lack of observation and Christian experiences.
@John, the whole Bible is full of wisdom and holiness. You didn't read thoroughly or remember accurately or simply in denial of facts on humanity's sins. All the noblest advancement in human society was done by the Old-New Testament readers. Never by those who scorn Biblical conscience.
In response to your assertion that "All the noblest advancement in human society was done by the Old-New Testament readers. Never by those who scorn Biblical conscience," Monty says, "But apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Romanes eunt domus ! ! !
No, wait, must use the vocative plural, the imperative and the locative or that bloody centurain will come back.
Romani ite domum ! ! !
Justina, first, Bless your soul for trying to talk with Romans 1:21-32. Second, it is written, those that mock Jesus and do not believe can not see His truth for they have no eyes to see nor ears to hear. Only when they repent and ask for His forgiveness, and stop sinning will they be able to read His truth.
Amen.
HeavenSent-
"Only when they repent and ask for His forgiveness, and stop sinning will they be able to read His truth."
You forgot the most important part, the need to stop questioning dogma, right?
NL, questioning dogma as you put it is keeping your ego in tack. Going humble means to suppress your ego so it won't rebuff His teachings. It's the same thing as learning basic math. Your ego denied it at first until you accepted what your teacher taught you about math. You can stand there and scream at her/him all you want for what they teacht, math didn't sink in until you trusted and accepted what you teacher taught. Now, you can go through your life stating that math doesn't exist and others will tell you it does.
HeavenSent-
Jesus' 'word' isn't like math. There are universal standards in math that make it easy to be understood by everyone in schools around the globe, and math actually makes logical sense. There are thousands of different Christian denominations that ALL believe that they have the one, unique key to interpreting what Jesus 'really' meant, and Jesus' words are not only cryptic, they contradict each other and are muddled by opinions of what he said by characters like Paul.
'Knowing' what Jesus meant with absolute certainty requires a belief that one's ability to translate and render the writings is superior not only to all the other armchair scholars out there, but the true academic ones as well. For those who actually admit that they have no scholarly training to draw upon it requires the belief that the Holy Spirit favors them with superior inspiration of what the writings mean. Any way you cut it, for an average person without any superior scholarly training to believe that they have the one true understanding of scripture where millions with their exact same credentials fail must require a huge ego. You must think very highly of your own ability, or your 'specialness' in the eyes of the Holy Spirit, right? That's arrogance denoting an inflated ego, my friend.
@HeavenSent
Unlike Christianity, math can be proven.
Remember geometry and all those proofs?
Yeah.
Now look at Christianity.
Circular logic.
Wait...wait. I'll prove math right now. It's life changing.
2...plus...2.....equals.........4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow.
@Atheist. Did you just attempt use math to prove math? Is that not circular reasoning (or question begging)? You have assumed the truth of the idea in question. Math cannot be proven using math. That’s almost as silly as trying to disprove math using math—for even if you succeed, you fail. Math is the application of the laws of logic. Logic cannot be proven or disproven—for any argument for (or against) the laws of logic, requires the laws of logic. Hence, logic, and math must be presumed by faith—albeit reasonable faith—in order for knowledge to be possible.
Ho-mo-se-xu-ality and child sacrifice are historically indicators that a society or culture is in such a state of rebellion to God and Truth that their time is short.....
Yes, the mass massacre, mass child sacrifice called abortion.
****@Justina... Yes, the mass massacre, mass child sacrifice called abortion.****
Yes... the mass child sacrifice where more than 3/4 of all women who get them hold religious beliefs. Classic!
Thank you Juan and Justina for speaking His truth. As for Truth, you are clueless if you don't know who's perverting this society for the last 30 years. Making women think there is a glass ceiling to reach for to achieve success in their lives. Abort that baby in order for you to play our game ... a must that you get your degree. Oh, got pregnant ... deny your Lord and Savior and kill that child. Then when you get that education, we will ensure that we have 100s if not 1000s of other hoops you can jump threw, just make sure you deny your Lord and Savior as you continue reaching for that carrot. Hey, no matter what you do, we toss you to the curb. You just don't fit into our male on male dominance in this world. That goes for the women's libbers too, as you denied your Lord and Savior while emasculating the men in your lives.
Need I go on. Plus, I'm sure this truth will never be posted by the debased mod squadders.
Amen.
HeavenSent
"I'm sure this truth will never be posted by the debased mod squadders."
So much for your powers of prophecy, eh?
Child sacrifice like when Abraham tried to kill Isaac? Was that the mark of civilization's decline?
Maybe, like everything in life. There are control freaks and not control freaks in every position in life. When my writings are allowed to be posted that happens to be controversial to a non-believers view, it depends on who's watching the site at the time I send my reply. I've sent the exact posts that have been denied to other articles on this site to find they got posted. That blows your theory out of the water.
sacrifice
Americans scorn foreign presidents and hollywood stars being in denial, but secular Americans are in denial on scientific evidences for God's existence, Western history, and on what the Bible is saying plainly and repeatedly. Some humans on earth still deny Holocaust ever happened. What can't people with wishful thinking who never read the main text deny?
Sorry, but apophenia does not qualify as "scientific evidences for God's existence".
Q, there is something instead of nothing in our world and those somethings are so profoundly constructive and functional, from a single plant cell to forms of a galaxy. It's definitely more probable that Someone intelligent designed it and created it. The oldest, most valuable Book on earth claims God created everything in the beginning and commands repentance because we humans do wrong. And He works against spritual and human evil on earth throughout history and before our own eyes. Simple logic points to God's existence. There is an art work with the Artist's signature.
Again, apophenia is not "evidence". You're conflating "probable" with "hope", but perhaps you could explain the "intelligence" behind male nip-ples, appendices that rupture, the recurrent laryngeal nerve, our fused 2nd chromosome, our defunct genes for egg yolk proteins, etc, etc?
@Q: A probable hope is 100% better than atheists' meaningless denial. If you can't explain why formation of simplest protain occurs in such a meticulous, calculated manner and the necessity of the amount of informations in DNA, you can't deny the existence of a Designer and Initiator with mind.
"A probable hope is 100% better than atheists' meaningless denial." Again, you really don't understand probability demonstrated in your use of this word to argue a purely faith-based claim and again, you conflate "meaningless denial" with a simple paucity of anything resembling actual evidence. Your second sentence betrays you're equally ignorant of biology as both of your examples have been well explained. I see no response to my examples of "intelligent design"?
You are totally correct, Justina. Secular Americans are in denial of the existence on non-existent scientific evidences of the existence of any god.
Another wrong take on statistics. Popular thought in the West doesn't mean anything. And CNN is liberal agenda anyway. There are way more Christians in the non-West than in the West and growing fast. Western immorality is another ideology to be defeated. Westerners will need spiritual help from the non-West very soon. The planet is too polluted anyway and Biblical prophesies coming true. Non-Western Christians will fulfill the dreams of American Founding Fathers. Interesting turning of history. Only perverts will be sorry at the end.
For those like Justina who do not want to peruse a rather short synopsis of the Resurrection Con, a shorter version:
From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
"Heaven is a Spirit state" as per JPII and Aquinas i.e. there can be no bodies. i.e. there was and never will be any physical resurrection/ascension of human bodies."
i.e. No Easter, no Christianity
Reality, I've given you that answer in every article you posted it. The answer, AGAIN ... is if non-believers don't believe that he rose to Heaven, then you have no faith, therefore, His preaching, as you prove to all of us that believe in our Lord and Savior is useless to YOU. Not to us. Believers know that he ascended into Heaven to defeat sin (death), therefore, His preaching is not only useful to us, but everything to us. You have NO faith. We know His fact about Life and the hereafter.
Heaven is a spirit state. God gave us two bodies. The one we are in now is our humanly body of flesh and blood that contains our soul. Our original body that we go back to after we leave this earth is our spiritual bodies of our souls. The spirit is the intellect of our souls. Therefore, our spiritual bodies and soul go to Heaven to be with our Lord and Savior and our physical bodies either get cremated or buried, or some, buried at sea or hanging from cliffs as they do in China. Whatever the placement for the human body, that body stays with the earth ... unless, astronauts send their remains into space.
Christians do not celebrate Easter, we celebrate Passover at that time, as do the Jewish Faith. The pagan ritual of Easter was incorporated into the churches so that pagans could hear the Truth of Jesus Christ and could accept Him as their Lord and Savior.
Amen.
P.S. I'm more than bored with your postings that you never take our Truth as an answer for your non-beliefs. Therefore, do not write me back with more of your cut and pastes.
Thank you.
Actually, HeavenSent and Justina's Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospels being mostly fiction.
Reality, everyone like you that rejects Jesus can't see His truth. That too, is written. No matter what a Christian tells you, you simply don't get it. You have the same sin blinding you as did satan. Sin of Pride. In today's world it means your ego. Shelf that ego and put aside all that stuff they crammed into that gray matter, and you too, can comprehend Jesus. Without Jesus, you wouldn't exist. But, then you'd argue that fact too.
As for your other post. My answer was blocked. Believe me. I care less what your opinion is about me. That too is a fact.
Romans 1:21-32.
Have fun reading.
"Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.
To wit:
o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "
"Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.
Keep mocking Him that you do not Know, nor love, or respect. He already wrote about you, and others like you in Romans 1:21-32 as He burns you so you do not spend eternity with Him unless you repent and change your ways.
Amen.
The Bible does not condemn ho-m0s3xualty.
The Bible does not condemn people but it does condemn specific actions because some actions are considered sinful. Sins are condemned. Jesus told the woman at the well everything she ever did and told her He did not condemn her when she confessed the Truth about herself; but Jesus told her she should go and sin no more.
We each have a built in gauge that tells us if an action is right or wrong; some may think that getting approval from others will make an action no longer be condemned, but Truth never changes no matter what people say or do.
Just like abortion….just because people have pas-sed a law saying it is ok to kill a baby in the womb does not make it ok. It never will be ok no matter what we say or do to convince ourselves….
If the gauge isn’t broken…it will register ‘wrong’ for abortion every time as well as all forms of fornication.
CatholicMom, because they refuse to acknowledge Him, therefore, they do not Know Him, nor respect or love Him, they are Romans 1:21-32.
Amen.
Some of you probably know "HeIsGod" by a million other names. I thought you might be interested in some of her posts on other forums. Here's a prize:
notation And this is what Higgy thinks is an exemplar of Christian charity and love:
LaChaparrita @ lucero – thanks, it's more like, she doesn't get enough penis from her man.
_______________
I believe I will copy this and post it over on the Faith forums.
17 minutes ago | Reply | Report abuse
LaChaparrita It is what is it is, so tell you man to do his job right!!
Flying Spaghetti Monster and Pink Invisible Unicorn dated for a while, but things did not work out. FSM was hanging out with Charlie Sheen at the time, with lots of smoking hotties and a big rock of crack, so PIU dumped him. Flying Spaghetti Monster retained custody of his heaven.
"What it really means to be in hell"? There is no hell. No god or heaven either. It's all man-made delusion. Yeah, I know you are threatening me with eternal damnation – religious people just love to think of the eternal misery of people who don't agree with them – but the joke is on you, and you chose it.
I appreciate the power boost, but you are mistaken. I am not threatening you with damnation at all. I do not have that power or authority. I am however telling you the way it is. Everyone will stand before God, show reverence to him and declare him God. One can do that willingly or be forced kicking and screaming to do it...but it will happen. It does me little benefit to have you go before God one way or the other. I actually find it funny that you think I am threatening you with anything. I know what you believe, so there are no "threats" that would effect you right? What is especially cute is that you are in fact threatening me...with the notion that my beliefs are incorrect. Seems that nonreligious ppl get a kick out of belittling other's faith but the joke's on you and you chose it.
As I said....the separation comes. That is hell.
Kendall-
"As I said....the separation comes. That is hell"
Would that be the separation from God is Hell? The very same separation from God that millions of happy and productive atheists feel every day is your idea of hell... except, of course, without any judgmental Christians around?
Sure you're not talking about Heaven there buddy?
Separation from religious looneys is definitely my vision of heaven, NL
Don't worry Burger, we will be separated, except you'll be the one knashing your teeth and feeling those eternal flames wiping out your existence.
Romans 1:28
Amen.
As I said before, religious people just love to think of the eternal misery of people who don't agree with them. If there were a God, what whould he think of such spite?
I mean really, imagine you had a boss who demanded that you constantly praise and worship him, and that he brutally and endlessly punishes anyone who does not agree with him. What if that boss inflicted his utterly brutal punishment on kind, giving, efficient workers who did not agree with him, but promoted and lavished gifts upon even the worst, meanest workers simply because they told him what he wanted to hear?
Put God's characteristics into a human, and you find a shallow, self-absorbed, unjust, childish jerk who allows incredibly nasty things to happen – which he could prevent but chooses not to.. His brown-nose followers deserve to be stuck with that for the rest of eternity. Separation from that, yes, that is what I want, here and forever.
But of course, there is no god of any kind. When we die, it's exactly what it looks like. We just stop.
Al Bluengreenenbrownenburger-
I wonder if some of these believers would actually want to be in heaven if the discovered that everyone went there after they died, and there was no hell? Say if everyone were given the opportunity to repent after death. You know, if God actually turned out to be compassionate. I actually think that it would disappoint some Christians.
Al Bluengreenenbrownenburger, you just figured out who destroyed 1/2 of my life. I did survive said bosses.
"The very same separation from God that millions of happy and productive atheists feel every day is your idea of hell"
No NL....not that at all.
Burger, keep believing there is no God and you loose your own soul.
God, through the Holy Spirit (which is simply the Spirit of God) moved those men to write the various books of the Bible. God had them to write what He wanted written. Thereby God was able to interrelate the sixty-six separate books that make up the Bible. It is like one giant puzzle where every piece fits perfectly into its place in relation to all the others.
Just as God Himself wrote the Ten Commandments, He also had the rest of the entire Bible written through the pen and paper of man, but always by the power and the influence of His Holy Spirit.
Exodus 24:12
12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
Amen.
That was really funny I could not stop laughing.
When I die, if I find myself surrounded by devout Christians (or Muslims or Mormons or any other riligious faction) doing their faith jive endlessly for the rest of eternity, I will know I an in Hell. I far prefer Flying Spaghetti Monster's heaven: it has a beer volcano and an exotic dancer factory.
Praying and praising, or a beer volcano. Not too hard to decide on that one. Flying Spaghetti Monster is the only legitimate god, as his heaven is the only one that sounds like it would be fun being there.
Quit being a poser and pick something more classical like the Pink Invisible Unicorn to believe in. To be honest, you know nothing of hell or what it really means to be there. Your ignorance is only blissful for a season...then comes the separation.
Kendall-
You've actually been to hell, the real Hell? Wow!
I don't know what to ask first: What'd you do to end up there? or How the hell did you get back, and come back from the dead?
Burger, you and others like you prove Romans 1:28 to be His fact about Life and the hereafter.
@NL I'm guessing that Kendall has not YET seen hell. But if (a) there is a god anything like the Christian god in his jealous fury and (b) Kendall keeps up his smug sanctimony, oh boy, is HE gonna get it! Indeed, about the only thing regrettable about the near disappearance of the Puritanism of yore is the loss of the once widely held belief that if you think you are saved, you almost surely are not.
@HeavenSent
I have asked you why, if the truth of the bible is so evident, there are 38,000 different denominations of Christianity.
I have disputed your claim of free will.
I have mocked your belief in preAdamic humanoids.
Can you defend nothing? All you do is blabber.
Curious in Arizona – The most racist state in the union.
JohnR-
Yeah, I was raised Catholic and the one thing that the nuns told us that actually made sense is that if you believe that you're going to heaven, you probably aren't. Boy, the ego of some of these guys to just assume to know where everyone is going is just incredible.
David, sorry I don't jump through your hoops when you write me, I am busy doing other things while I blog to you folks. The reason there are so many denominations in the world is because they don’t all follow the same guidance the Spirit of God. If they followed the Word of God and the will of God in all things, they would be very much alike than they are. Most of them, I can’t say all because I haven’t been to every church, nor heard everyone preach ... but, phonies in the world that use Jesus truth to make their way in life are all selfish, in the same way ... and on the same road. Jesus called it the broad road that leads to destruction. See Matthew 7:13, Revelation 21:8, Romans 1:18-25, John 14:6, Deuteronomy 32:39-41, Revelation 20:11-15. Then Matthew 7:13; 2 Peter 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:3 shows they have not the characteristic of Christ's sheep (John 10:5). And, men such as these are wells without water (2 Peter 2:17).
I hope you are reading what I post instead of staying in the dark?
@NL & John- Did I say anything about Hell?
I've been to the the hell listed in the Old Testament...Gehenna....that count?
Kendall-
"To be honest, you know nothing of hell or what it really means to be there."
You really meant the Valley of Hinnom?
@Neutralizer "no praying in school and no brainwashing our kids that being gay or transgender is acceptable?" Very acceptable as long as there is also "no brainwashing our kids that being gay or transgender is" un-acceptable. It goes both ways here. If you want to insist that only you get to brainwash your kids, then start home schooling them. I'd like to see the numbers some day as to how many home schooled creationists become the next generation of doctors and scientists, or will they follow in their parents footsteps and continue to deny the obvious in the face of facts.
Gay and transgender people have as much choice in who they are as a frog does to not jump at a loud noise. Anyone who believes otherwise has not done the research (or used a stoned frog) or discredited the research with the simple reasoning of "well thats not what my pastor said the bible said so it has to be a choice and has nothing to do with their genetics or chromosome make-up because, like, cause, you know, thats stupid, like genes being gay and stuff, thats like, not possible and all OMG."
While agree with a lot of what you said here. Plz don't get caught in a unfounded biased opinion of religious ppl. Do you know that a Priest developed the thoery of the Big Bang? Einstien had all the numbers and evidence of it staring him in the face and he would not accept it and I believe he wasn't exactly religious. So who would be more closed minded in this situation? A non-religious scientist or the religious scientist?
Wow ScottK, why don't you stay home. Obviously, your education given you stinks.
Romans 1:28
Neutralizer said: Why does my son have to learn at school that being gay is cool and OK?
Because we don't want another bigoted moron like you in the world? A man who bases his outlook on life on his faith rather then fact and observation?
Your child will be better off without your nonsense, taught to think on his own and actaully approach concepts with his own viewpoints, rather then the viewpoints of uneducated peasants of 2000 years ago.
Here's something to ponder. Any God worthy of worship would not want it. 🙂
So basically you are saying that YOU and you like minded folk are the only ones whose opinion matter? Over a mother's right to teach her child what she wants? Better watch it, you ego is about to squash you!
Romans 1:28.
Amen.
"Any God worthy of worship would not want it..."
Any parent worthy of love would not want it.
Any police officer worthy of respect would not want it.
Any comment you make worthy of note should not receive it.
Catchy sayings aren't always true.
Bobinnutter, I hope you realized that you just killed your son. Unless, you son rejects you the same way you reject Jesus. Then and only then, does your son live and his bozo father dies in his own carnal sins.
Mao-
Ah, but any parent worthy of love would also return their love, and any police officer worthy of respect would also return respect, yes? Give and you shall receive, in kind, but does God return worship to us?
Whatever he returns is not even close to being equal to what he demands in worship. That's where God fails to be worthy, because any worthy being wouldn't demand more than it is willing to return, right?
@SadieSadie - And if that mother is also teaching that blacks are sub-human, girls aren't as smart as boys, and Jews deserved what they got in the Holocaust, do you think that should be respected, too?
I studied the Book of Revelations very closely and I saw references to Al Davis in it. It scared me.
The Bobinator, God is I AM. He created every thing. If you can't grasp this fact. Too bad for you and your delusions about life. Just because you reject His Word, means nothing to the rest of us that know and respect our Creator and what He's done for every one and every thing. We try to explain that everyone has a soul created by God and with that soul comes responsibility for your thoughts, beliefs, action. You continue to refuse to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior because you don't want to give up your sinful nature and love having the sins of PRIDE, LUST, GREED, ENVY ruling your life and therefore, inappropriately believe there is NO God, that this life is all you get and you are going to go for the gusto while you can, when you can, as long as you breath. Then when your life is over, they shove you in a hole and walk away. Good concept. NOT. Well, that's what He given you free will can do. Just remember that when you meet Him face to face after you stop breathing. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear your excuses you are going to try to fly by him!
Amen.
"having the sins of PRIDE" You see the speck in everyone else's eyes but not the log in yours. Classic!
Sharon, what's the matter? Haven't you read these scriptures?
2 Timothy 3:12-4:4
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
This is what pseudo-mystical claptrap is good for – multiple interpretations to literally justify ANYTHING...and no proof needed.
Which of course includes your biased opinion as well.
MrEO, you'll never think spiritually until you humble yourself to be able to read His truth. Other than that, if you refuse, it's your choice. You, and others like you that don't believe Him or study His truth ... doom yourselves. He tells us how we can save ourselves, even though you think He's destroying you. You destroy you. That's what none of you understand. He gave us a choice. Love and follow Him (truth). Meaning learn His spiritual teachings and you live while housed in the flesh, then join Him in the hereafter or stay carnal and follow satan (lies). You, kill yourself by refusing to learn His spiritual truth. When Jesus says he's going to wipe out sin (aka evil), that means carnal is destroying carnal and only spiritual resides with Him to eternity.
That's His truth. Learn it and LIVE. Refuse His truth and you kill yourself aka DIE.
"you'll never think spiritually until you humble yourself " LOL! This is coming from a person who believes they are superior in their reading the bible while bashing other people posting here. Classic!
Sharon, Jesus told us when those that continue to mock Him be prepared understanding Matthew 7:6.
Amen.
Leviticus 20:13
No debate. Fact. Done.
And if you have cite any portion of the Bible in order to make a case against the Bible outwardly condemning ho-mose-xuality (usually with death), you have a self-contradictory book.
This isn't the freaking tax code, people.
Oh, and just to make things clear, I'm not supporting the Bible, especially this part of it. I'm just answering the question.
TheRationale-
"Leviticus 20:13"
OK, that covers ancient Hebrews, but why does it apply to modern-day Christians, or anybody else born in the last few thousand years for that matter?
@NL- Christianity came from the Hebrews. We can no more cut out our Jewish religious heritage than a modern philosopher could cut out Plato, Aristotle or Nietzche.
Kendall-
But Christianity stopped being a Jewish sect as soon as Christians stopped cutting their foreskins and keeping the rest of God's Law. The Christian God bears little resemblance to the Jewish one in make up and temperament. You could draw lines of heritage from the Const.itution to the Magna Carta too, but we don't follow the Magna Carta, do we? Why do Christians (kinda, when it suits them) follow the Torah?
Unbelievable. You reject Jesus teachings and you switch the responsibility onto him? Incredible. You, as well as others reject Him too. Period. Jesus' teachings are no where in your mind except when you are bashing Him and His wisdom, as well as those that follow Him. You have no intentions of ever seriously reading His truth or following the way He tells us to do, or, for that matter wanting to be in harmony with community.
You own your behavior, NOT Jesus, NOT Christians, NOT anyone, but you as told in Romans 1.
Amen.
Well yeah, but then there are these:
GAY LOVE ACCEPTED – 1 Samuel 18:1-3
And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.
Was Jesus gay, or just odd phrasing?
John 20:2
So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved.
[Or the other disciple could have been an unnamed woman.]
John 21:7
Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord!"
John 21:20
Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them.
Cheers!
Only reprobate minds twist and contort Jesus' scriptures and buy into that which you defiled. Jesus didn't have s$x while living in the flesh. He came down to earth to walk among us to teach His spiritual truth so that you can live, spiritually, down here and the hereafter. For Him to teach what He believes, means He doesn't think or act carnally. You can't believe this with your carnal minds. That is His truth. Besides, it's your life, it's your minds that tell you that you are intelligent. You know only the intellect of the world. You believe the lies of man. Therefore, enjoy your ride down, down, down folks. For it will be your last ride.
******@HeavenSent: Only reprobate minds twist and contort Jesus' scriptures and buy into that which you defiled. Jesus didn't have s$x while living in the flesh.********
Only delusional minds make statements that are not fact and present them as if they were indeed fact. Jesus didn't have s-ex while here on Earth? Really? Were you there as a peeping Tom in his window every night he was on Earth to know this?
It's more like you are unable to discern between fact and opinion and you take opinion and have deluded yourself into believing it is actually fact.
*******You know only the intellect of the world. You believe the lies of man.***********
You know of very little intellect of the world. You believe the lies that you have heard from your Church and tricked yourself into believing them as fact.
******Therefore, enjoy your ride down, down, down folks. For it will be your last ride.*********
More judging others. Classic!
Peace.
Oh really. Jesus taught that male sperm penetrating female egg(s) reproduces. Science agrees. What part do you not understand?
Sperm meeting sperm, does not produce as does egg(s) meeting egg(s). Only sperm meeting egg(s) completes the equation of reproduction. Jesus teaches this as do the sciences.
David Johnson, I believe it was Catholic Mom, if not, then another Christian posted the meaning of said scriptures on another article post ...meaning it was parental love for the child. Not carnal lust for the person you mentioned but, love for the child as a father/mother loves his son or daughter.
NL- you are wrong....Christianity by definition is a Jewish Cult that became it's own religion. That does not mean that we ignore our jewish background. Heck....Jesus celebrated the Jewish holidays and so did the Apostles. Our faith rests on the Old Testament as much as the New Testament. You might realize that if you actually read up on it, especially the parts the Gospels that literally quote the Torah.
What can I say the truthnot, you prove Matthew 7:6.
Yes.
Does it really matter? No.
Why? I would rather take medical advice from the Ebers Papyrus which states "Half an onion and the froth of beer was considered "a delightful remedy against death."
I sometimes think to myself... what would happen if no one had ever heard of Christianity until 2011? A guy claiming to be the son of god (but also himself) would show up and say some nice things (that go against what "his dad" said). Someone would kill him. Then we'd all be asked to believe that drinking his blood would cleanse of us our bad thoughts and actions and that even though he was dead, he was really alive (but invisible with no proof of his continuing existence). We'd all think it was totally nuts!
I urge every Christian to look up the 12 deities that were written about hundreds (some thousands) years before Christ who were children of "a god", born on Dec. 25, heralded by a star in the north, crucified, and I could go on and on.
You could read the Bible fifty times and not understand what it's really saying...and for a book of fiction, a whole lot of what's written in it has come true...weird.
Star Trek has a better track record of predicting future events, and it often has better morality tales as well.
Just because you do not understand something after reading it 50 times does not mean others are as slow to understand the info as you. Don't assume that since you don't understand something, that other share your inability.
I thought I'd do a post regarding the issue of hom-ose-xuality, which if it enlightens just one person even a tiny bit, then it will be worth the time spent.
Before I continue, I'll state upfront that I am not LGBT (not that it should even matter).
I find it mind-numbing how many devout Christians are so uneducated concerning the gay issue.
They come out with hilarious lines such as "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." That's about as original as "What's your sign baby?" lol
So then I ask them: "Does God make mistakes?"
99.9%+ of them answer a resounding "No."
In that case, we have established that God does not make mistakes. Thus, the fact that it is scientifically proven that many different types of animals are gay, then logic dictates God MUST therefore be in favor of the gay ideal (since he doesn't make mistakes).
In the Bible, one of the most commonly referenced passages involves Jesus being known as the Shepherd as us as his Sheep.
So now let's look at the specific example set forth by Jesus himself. Jesus = Shepherd & We = Sheep. Male sheep have been proven to have s-ex in natural circu-mstances with other male sheep. So did God just "screw up?" Of course not... because we have already established that he doesn't make mistakes.
In fact, it was so common in Australia that shepherds actually came up with a name for the gay sheep calling them "shy breeders." A study done by the Oregon Health & Science University's School of Medicine found that around 8% of sheep won't father offspring specifically due to the fact that they choose to mate with sheep of their same gender.
So now, why did Jesus use that analogy? Sheep didn't just "turn" gay in the last 100 years and I hope no one tries to justify it by arguing that sheep have a "choice." There would have been gay sheep back in Jesus' day as well. Surely, shepherds would have noticed and surely as the Son of God, Jesus would have already been well aware of this fact. So did Jesus just not know what he was talking about? Of course not as we have already established otherwise. Thus, Jesus is factoring in the gay members of our human society into his flock. He doesn't say to specifically shun the gay sheep. He didn't pick a different reference that wouldn't have included gay members such as he is the "Mountain" & we are the "Pebbles." Instead, he intentionally chose that reference.
There are only a tiny handful of animals that have been scientifically proven to have s-ex for pleasure purposes (not solely for reproduction). These tend to be animals with the largest brains (cetaceans, primates, etc). And in all of these cases, those animals have proven and docu-mented hom-ose-xual members in their groups. Thus, God was OK with that as well.
How about some other random examples?
In seahorses, it is the male that becomes pregnant and has a pouch to care for its young.
Or perhaps polychaete worms, echinoderms, crustaceans, molluscs and many different types of fish all can change s-ex from male to female or female to male.
Or what about say the plants known as "lilies-of-the-valley" who have both female and male reproducive s-ex organs simultaneously?
And so on and so on and so on...
Geez, God must "mess up" a lot then... but as we have already established, he doesn't make mistakes.
As for claims that the "Bible" tells us that God is against hom-ose-xuality, I ask them if it was SO extremely important to God that hom-ose-xuality did not happen, then why wasn't it mentioned "specifically" time and time and time and time again in the Bible like other recurring themes are? After all, the ancient Greeks were having hom-ose-xual s-ex with children at least 500 years before Jesus ever walked on the earth. And surely God would have been aware of that little tidbit of information before sending Jesus to earth.
And none of that is even taking into account that the ancient Romans did the same thing... and Jesus knew a thing or two about the Romans.
So maybe it wasn't so important after all.
None of that even accounts for other facts such as God obviously felt that it worse to bear false witness against your neighbor than it was to have hom-ose-xual s-ex as evidenced by the 10 Commandments.
Never to mind from a non-religious perspective, hom-ose-xuality actually helps to keep the planet's population from exceeding its niche (as it does in the animal kingdom and the plant kingdom). Of course, today there are avenues around that for gay and lesbian couples via scientific means. Furthermore, many gay and lesbian couples adopt which means that children who would otherwise go unwanted are now given loving homes.
If anyone takes the time to actually research the topic from non-biased sources, it is clearly obvious that hom-ose-xuality is indeed genetic. The real question is how big of a percentage is it? That has not been definitively answered yet. The mere fact that it is genetic in the first place therefore means that God is responsible for it. Moreover, God created us in his own image, so that should account for something as well.
Looking at it from a common sense physical perspective, if God didn't want people to have hom-ose-xual s-ex and if you choose to deny the genetic aspect of it despite overwhelming evidence, then still all God needed to do was to make sure that the "parts" didn't fit. Human beings have s-ex in three main orifices because that is where the parts fit. If God didn't want it to happen like that, then he could have just changed the shapes/sizes. For instance, we don't have nostril s-ex because the parts don't fit.
The concept of the Golden Rule is mentioned numerous times in both Testaments of the Bible. Jesus makes it clear that this is of the utmost importance. So I'm not sure how discriminating against hom-ose-xuals quite fits the blatantly overt message contained in the Golden Rule.
People that are hom-ophobic (whether consciously or subconsciously) due to their upbringing and/or surroundings, go out of their way to find va-gue passages and interpretations to support their discrimination against God's children. These citations are few and far between and they are ambiguous at best. The number of "Shepherd" and "Golden Rule" references along with basic common sense and logic trump all of those desperate attempts many times over. Yet the discrimination sadly continues. Jesus was a man of love and peace who helped the most loathed of his society. So I find it ironic that people who call themselves followers of him feel they license to do the opposite.
So as you can see, even if you choose to believe that that science is incorrect and it is indeed a "choice," then basic common sense dictates otherwise.
In any event, hopefully you will read this with an open mind and perhaps it might resonate at some point in time. To those of you that don't discriminate against people that are simply different from you in the spirit of Christ, then I applaud you and encourage you to speak out more in an effort to educate the uneducated.
Tiny Sampling of Genetic Evidence
From just one single Seattle Times article from 2005, they discuss such items as:
1) Dr. Mustanski (who studied extensively at the Kinsey Insti-tute and has received awards from the National Insti-tutes of Health, National Science Foundation, etc, etc, etc) stating: "It's pretty definitive that biological factors play a role in determining a person's se-xual orientation."
2) Austrian scientists reported this month that switching a single gene was enough to make female fruit flies rebuff males and attempt to mate with other females.
3) Swedish researchers recently found the se-xual center of gay men's brains lit up when they sniffed a pheromone-like chemical from men's sweat, but didn't respond to a chemical from women.
4) The team from the University of Padua found that mothers and aunts of gay men had more offspring than female relatives of heterose-xuals, suggesting genes that influence hom-ose-xuality in men may increase fertility in females.
5) Ranchers have long known that about 8 percent of Rams never father offspring because they only have eyes for other males.
6) Roselli found that a brain region linked with se-xual behavior was twice as big in heterose-xual as hom-ose-xual rams. The difference seems to exist even before birth, he said. The gay rams also had lower brain levels of an enzyme that activates testosterone and promotes typical male se-xual behavior.
7) Rats, hamsters, ferrets and other lab animals flip-flop their se-xual behavior when scientists manipulate the hormones they're exposed to before birth. Such experiments would be unethical in people, but some rare medical conditions offer human parallels.
A high proportion of girls with a disorder that causes them to secrete male hormones before birth grow up to be lesbian.
9) About 40 case studies have shown boys who are surgically altered and raised as girls because of genital deformities are overwhelmingly attracted to females once they reach puberty — indicating se-xual orientation is determined very early in life and is difficult to alter.
10) Dr. Breedlove (what a classic name for his field) who has degrees from Yale and UCLA and has taught at Berkeley and now at Michigan State being an expert in neuroendocrinology states: "If you're going to say people choose a se-xual orientation when they reach puberty, you're going to have to find some people who remember making that choice, and there aren't any... The evidence is starting to look pretty good that hormones early in life influence the probability of who you will be attracted to 10 years later, when people start to get their first crushes."
11) In heterose-xual women, the index and ring fingers are usually about the same length. In heterose-xual men, the index finger is shorter, on average, than the ring finger. It's one of several differences between the se-xes that seem to be set before birth, based on testosterone exposure.
12) OK.... has everyone stopped looking at their finger length yet? LOL
13) Breedlove found lesbians' finger lengths were, on average, more like men's. The same holds true for other traits, like eye-blink patterns and inner-ear function. (side note... eye blinking is subconsciously based and cannot be consciously controlled in the manner in which the test was conducted.)
14) "Every time you find a body marker that gives an indication of prenatal testosterone exposure, lesbians on average are more masculine than straight women," Breedlove said. "This can't be a fluke."
15) Hom-ose-xuality: It runs in families and the number of older brothers a man has can increase his chances of being gay.
16) What scientists call slam-dunk proof that genes are part of the equation comes from twin studies. Genetically influenced traits are more likely to be shared among the closest relatives, and that pattern holds for hom-ose-xuality. For fraternal male twins, the gay-gay concordance rate is about 22 percent. For identical twins, it's 52 percent.
17) Environmental factors could be exclusively biological, like chemical exposure or infection. One theory, backed by some evidence in rats, is that the chemical and hormonal milieu of the developing fetus can be disrupted when pregnant mothers are stressed.
18) When he looked into scattered reports that many gay men have older brothers, he was astounded. The findings now have been confirmed by more than a dozen studies, including several of his own: Every older brother a man has increases his chances of being gay. A man with four older brothers is three times more likely to be gay than a man with none. Blanchard estimates one out of every seven gay men owes his orientation to this "fraternal birth order" effect.
19) Gay males with older brothers weigh less at birth than heterose-xual males with older brothers, hinting that something different is happening to them in the womb.
So as you can see, there is a LOT of evidence pointing in this direction and that was just from one link five full years ago. Current science has brought many more of those ideas to the forefront and produced new evidence to boot. I don't see how anyone can possibly say that genetics doesn't play at least a partial role in determining se-xual orientation. Thus, even if that partial number is 0.0001% (and that number is WAY higher in my opinion), then that must mean that God is OK with it, otherwise he would have made genetics play a 0.0000% role in it.
Moreover, not from the article above, but the Y Chromosome is slowly disappearing and in another 5,000 generations, men might no longer exist at all. Nature is much more powerful than nurture no matter which way you want to slice it.
But hey, if anyone thinks finger length is a choice, or subconscious eye-blinking patterns are a choice, or the number of older brothers increasing likelihood of hom-ose-xuality is a choice, or that brains light up differently when exposed to male vs female pheromones is a conscious choice, or that boys who were surgically altered due to ambiguous se-xual identification at birth (unbeknownst to them) who are raised as girls and then are attracted to girls is a choice, etc, etc, etc... then more power to you.
So here's my challenge: If anyone can go and magically alter their finger length by "conscious choice" or if anyone can go into a lab and manipulate the se-xual arousal portion of their brain "by choice" and have it light up like Clark's house in Christmas Vacation by smelling pheromones of each s-ex at will, then I will recant everything I said. However, something tells me that I don't have much to worry about.
Peace!
Kendall-
"Just because you do not understand something after reading it 50 times does not mean others are as slow to understand the info as you. Don't assume that since you don't understand something, that other share your inability."
You know, this is my exact thought every time I hear a creationist struggle with evolution, carbon dating and the big bang theory.
@NL- I'm sure it is....one belief system clashing with another.
Kendall-
That's one belief system based in superst.ition clashing with another that happens to have all the evidence supporting it. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Superst.ition clashing with science because of the fear of offending the invisible tyrant king.
Daniel was sleeping through for all those 50 times or simply lying.
******@NL: "Star Trek has a better track record of predicting future events, and it often has better morality tales as well."*******
LOL.... so true. If Spock had to Vulcan mind meld with most Christians, his head would literally spontaneously explode from the lack of logic contained within.
Typical bogus mod squadders. Won't let my post to the Truth be printed. Now I have to make it generic, so the debate never allows our side heard unless it's generic so you can continue your brainwashing.
Amen.
The Truth, what part of taking responsibility for your thoughts, beliefs, actions do you not understand?
The Truth, what part of the prediction of famine in end of days do you not comprehend? Didn't Star Trek go off the air? Had a few movies made and then delete, delete, delete. I knew you were a Trekkie. Must be convenient to pick and choose what moralities you abide in and the others, not only do you not understand, you refuse to understand, therefore, no need for Truthy to abide in them.
Definitely got your number now.
NL, the Bible states the earth is millions upon millions of years old. Just because you don't know how to cross reference the Books in the Bible, doesn't mean those scriptures aren't there. Also, you and the science community still haven't answered the Christian questioned posed to you over 40-50 years ago. That being, from your side of the debate ...where did it all begin? Finally, if you believe in the big bang theory, who lit the fuse?
So, post around my questions that I've asked you for your answer for the last 4 articles or so, we've been posting.
@Kendall
You said: "Just because you do not understand something after reading it 50 times does not mean others are as slow to understand the info as you. Don't assume that since you don't understand something, that other share your inability."
Many people have read the Christian bible, and have come away with different interpretations.
Notice how many denominations of Christianity there are (~ 38,000). Each denomination can show you scripture, that "proves" theirs is the true faith. Many believe only their members will be saved.
All of the denominations could not be correctly interpreting the bible. Many are contradictory.
Many of these denominations believe only their members will be saved.
What evidence do you have, that your comprehension is correct?
If the Christian god exists, and he is all knowing and all powerful and all good, why didn't He provide a bible that could not be misinterpreted? That everyone's understanding of His wants would be the same?
ambiguity – : a word or expression that can be understood in two or more possible ways : an ambiguous word or expression
1. If god exists, He would want everyone to know His wants, without ambiguity.
People attempt to discover god's wants by reading the bible.
2. The bible god provided, is ambiguous.
This fact is evidenced by there being 38,000 different denominations of Christianity.
3. Therefore, the Christian god does not exist.
Cheers!
Interesting. Non-believers skipped right over Romans 1.
No wonder.
David Johnson, Jesus Christ makes it perfectly clear what He wants from us and what He wants for us. You just want to keep your rebellious nature going because you don't want to do what He asks. Free will. Remember. You chose not to follow Him then you make excuses and call His teachings ambiguous! Talk about the sin of PRIDE blinding you! Take responsibility for how you thing, what you write and what you do against our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. You own it.
Amen.
@HeavenSent "Typical bogus mod squadders. Won't let my post to the Truth be printed. Now I have to make it generic, so the debate never allows our side heard unless it's generic so you can continue your brainwashing."
OMG... I'll tell you the same thing AGAIN. Maybe after you've heard for the thousandth time, it will finally sink in... cut and pasted from a previous post to you:
>
>>>>*****But, the CNN mod squadders refuse to accept this post, as is most of the Christian posts proving you to be wrong about how you interpret the Bible. I find that odd. What is it folks in the bible, THEY don't want you to know.*******
I say this in all seriousness: You are completely delusional. This has been explained to you OVER and OVER again by NUMEROUS people and yet you STILL won't accept it.
Guess what? My posts get hit by the "CNN mod squadders" all the time and guess what? Yep... I have ALWAYS found a way to post what I wanted to say.
The fact that you and "most of the Christian posts proving you to be wrong" can't figure out how to successfully post goes back to the studies which show the more someone believes in religion, the lower their intelligence levels. This isn't rocket science. It's "amazing" how the posts the Christians are supposedly trying to "prove wrong" are able to get posted. It is because those people are intelligent enough to figure out how to post here.
Or perhaps God simply wants to hear our voices and not yours because we are correct. lol
I'm going to type this really s-l-o-w-l-y so perhaps you can FINALLY understand it: There are NO CNN Mod Squadders like you continue to trick yourself into believing!!! It is a basic computer sof-twa-re program that censors out certain words. In fact, the list of these words that activate the sof-twa-re has been actually presented SPECIFICALLY TO YOU on numerous occasions.
And yet you STILL think that these CNN Mod Squadders exist in an effort to conspire against you!!! This is BEYOND delusion. This is actual PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIA. From the Mayo Clinic's definition: "In paranoid schizophrenia, a common delusion is that you're being singled out for harm." You have said that same thing that the Mod Squadders are censoring you over and over and over again on countless threads.
It is like I'm listening to the poor man's version of A Beautiful Mind.
In any event (and I'm being totally serious and not being mean), you should consider seeking help for these delusions. It hasn't just been one instance of displaying signs/symptoms, but a plethora of instances. There are existing medications that can help you with this.
Good luck.
Peace.
PS... this particular post got hit for moderation by those imaginary people and yet I was still able to find a way to post it.<<<<
---------–
*******The Truth, what part of the prediction of famine in end of days do you not comprehend?**********
LOL... what does that have to do with anything? But since you want to talk about it, let's do it. Here are some famines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
Do you know what all of those have in common? They all had delusional religious people saying what you are saying now. And guess what? They were all wrong. But hey, I'm sure you are the one that is going to break that trend and be correct.
*****Didn't Star Trek go off the air? Had a few movies made and then delete, delete, delete.*******
Actually, a movie just came out last year that is currently the 55th highest dollar gros-sing movie in US history.
*****I knew you were a Trekkie.******
I'm far from a Trekkie, but I used to watch it a long time ago. I haven't even seen the latest movie.
*******Must be convenient to pick and choose what moralities you abide in and the others*********
Yeah, actually it is. I get to choose my moralities from human nature and based on ideals our country was forged upon... that means to treat everyone as equals.
From Matthew: Jesus says, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
Do you know what "everything" means? Oh wait, I forgot you don't because when it comes to selling everything you own (which Jesus commanded to get into Heaven), you spin and twist that just like Clinton saying, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is." Perhaps you understand though what "sums up the Law" means.
So continue to be a hypocrite and treat gays in a manner that is not how you would want to be treated yourself. After all, who cares what your Savior has to say about it.
********not only do you not understand, you refuse to understand, therefore, no need for Truthy to abide in them.*******
You are incapable of understanding for the reasons listed above.
*******Definitely got your number now.********
The only number that you've got is a 5150 for yourself.
Peace.
I told you so Truth, that the mod squadders wouldn't post my laughing at your debased mind.
@HeavenSent
You said: "the Bible states the earth is millions upon millions of years old. Just because you don't know how to cross reference the Books in the Bible, doesn't mean those scriptures aren't there."
Hmmm... Once Upon a Time...
The pre-Adamic humans is an old theory (1600's). Some Evangelicals have dusted the theory off, added a gap between Genesis I and Genesis II and by golly, they are in agreement with science on the age of the earth!
They accepted a relatively young age for the Biblical Adam, but said that the ‘old’ human fossils came from pre-Adamite human-like creatures. *snicker, snicker*
Pre-Adamites were also an integral part of the now-discredited gap theory. In this the pre-Adamites were soulless beings which all perished in a catastrophe called ‘Lucifer’s Flood’, which allegedly occurred between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis 1 ‘in the far-distant dateless past’.
The existence of a Pre-Adamic flood is based solely on a loose interpretation of Genesis, there is no clear indication (biblical) that any flood burst forth from the Earth, prior to the story of Noah.
Info taken from: http://creation.com/pre-adamic-man-were-there-human-beings-on-earth-before-adam
Actually, there is no scientific evidence that a worldwide flood occurred at the time of Noah. Many civilizations existed at the time. They never mentioned drowning, or even complained of muddy feet. Evidently, some Evangelicals are accepting this, and are satisfied that Noah's flood was a local event.
The desperate have adopted theistic evolution, as a last ditch effort to keep their god alive. He is drowning in a sea of scientific discovery.
You said: "Also, you and the science community still haven't answered the Christian questioned posed to you over 40-50 years ago. That being, from your side of the debate ...where did it all begin? Finally, if you believe in the big bang theory, who lit the fuse?"
Science is working hard on this one. There is one very promising theory, called "M-Theory". Prof. Stephen Hawking has some interesting ideas about the singularity, from his work on black holes.
But the bottom line is, science does not yet know, how the singularity came to be, or what caused the Big Bang. We may never actually "know".
But, believers have the same problem. If believers say god created the universe, then it can be asked, who created / caused god and then who created / caused god's maker etc. ad infinitum.
Believers usually reply: "God is outside time and space and is the only thing that does not require a maker or a cause."
If you have a rule, that everything that is must have a cause, and then exempt god, you no longer have a rule. If god can be excused from the need for a cause, then why not the universe or some other not god thingy?
Believers are still doing the "God of the Gaps" answer to everything. Whatever is not known, is explained by saying, "God did it". But, this answer has always been wrong in the past. So far, god has not been "necessary" for any explanation.
Believers have no proof, that their self existent god, is anything but wishful thinking. I would think it necessary to first prove there is a god, before He is used as an explanation for anything.
Cheers!
@HeavenSent
You said: "Jesus Christ makes it perfectly clear what He wants from us and what He wants for us."
Then, why are there 38,000 different denominations of Christianity?
Cheers!
@HeavenSent
You said: " You just want to keep your rebellious nature going because you don't want to do what He asks. Free will."
Free Will, you say...
The problem is, that Christians have insisted on their god being Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnibenevolent.
No god can be all three at the same time. They contradict each other.
If god knows what He will do in the future and because He is Omnipotent, does something else, then He is not omniscient.
If god knows what He will do in the future and cannot do something else, then He is not omnipotent.
If God knows the future, that means that the future is predictable and unchangeable. This, in turn, means that our actions are predetermined. If god is all knowing, free will is an illusion.
This also binds god, in that He knows what he will do in the future, and He must do it.
Let's look at Jesus and his predictions that Judas would betray him and Peter would deny him:
Those were future events. Do you think Judas could have used his free will to opt out? Not, if Jesus/God was omniscient.
Same goes for Peter.
The actions of Peter and Judas were predetermined. They had no choice.
Biblical prophecy would not be possible, unless events and human actions were predetermined.
What about the child who is murdered by a monster, or a people slaughtered by a stronger opponent (or a god)?
Did they choose to be harmed? Where was their free will?
These acts show that the strong or the people in power have greater free will than their victims. Hmmm...
If god has a "plan for each of us", then that pretty much rules out free will.
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
Ephesians 1:11 "We have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."
"this man [Christ Jesus] delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God" (Acts 2:23a NASB).
The 6 point Calvinists believe our fates are sealed, even before we are born. This would mean that god allows humans to be born, knowing they will someday burn forever. Seems wrong to me, even for a mysterious god.
There is no evidence that a god gives or safeguards free will.
Cheers!
The Truth-
Have you read The Ethics of Star Trek, or Religions of Star Trek? They put things in a nice perspective.
"I have always been reasonably leery of religion because there are so many edicts in religion, 'thou shalt not,' or 'thou shalt.' I wanted my world of the future to be clear of that." Gene Roddenberry
But, more importantly
"There is a tomorrow – we Humans are going to make it – we're something. To any young-minded person, that's a very important statement." Gene Roddenberry
Christianity in America depends upon scaring the younger generation into believing that they have no future, and that is a terrible thing.
HeavenSent-
"the Bible states the earth is millions upon millions of years old."
Does the bible actually say that, or are you saying that it's encrypted somewhere in the figurative, poetic language beyond a literal reading?
@Heavensent: "Interesting. Non-believers skipped right over Romans 1."
Sorry, I must have been in Science class.
@HeavenSent I told you so Truth, that the mod squadders wouldn't post my laughing at your debased mind.******
LOL... talking with you is great because it takes virtually zero effort to discredit you since you do such a wonderful job of putting your delusions on full display for all to witness.
You see, I can post my laughing at you because I am intelligent enough to circ-umvent the basic posting code here, whereas your "debased" mind's massive inept-itude doesn't allow you to.
Thanks for the laugh!
Peace.
******@David Johnson....Let's look at Jesus and his predictions that Judas would betray him and Peter would deny him: Those were future events. Do you think Judas could have used his free will to opt out? Not, if Jesus/God was omniscient.********
You are correct about the whole omniscient/free will concept.
As an aside, in case you are interested, here's something I wrote regarding Judas and "interpretations" of the Bible:
>>>>Let's take the word "paradidomi" as an example. This word is used throughout the Bible and in every instance it is translated as "hand over" except when it comes to Judas and then it magically gets translated as "betray." Judas was was Jesus' most trusted ally. He was like his brother. Doesn't it make more sense that Jesus ASKED Judas to turn him in because he had confidence that Judas was the most likely to successfully complete the extremely undesirable task that the other Apostles might not have had the stomach to complete? If I had a very tough task, I know I'd ask my best friend to help me, not someone that I was unsure about.
Could Judas have betrayed Jesus in the manner in which most believe? Sure, why not? Could it also be possible that Jesus asked Judas to hand him over because Jesus already knew his fate? Sure, why not?
Many people think that Judas turned Jesus over as if the Romans had no idea where to find him. We think of Jesus being incognito as if he were Saddam hiding out in some hole in the middle of the desert. Jesus was out preaching (not at the precise moment the Romans found him, but he wasn't hiding in a hole either) and it wouldn't have been difficult for the Romans to find him. Judas had NO REASON to turn him in. The only reason would be that he was rewarded with money from the Romans, but he held the money for Jesus' group already. Thus, he could have just stolen that instead if greed was his main goal. The fact that he was entrusted with the money is a clue as to his possible value to Jesus.
But in any case, either one "could' be correct. We don't know. The point I am attempting to make is that we should be told both sides of the story and let the individual be the one to decide, but instead, most mainstream religions push only one possible story down the throats of their faithful.
A link from National Geographic about Judas and another from the BBC concerning the word paradidomi:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0406_060406_judas.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3610879.stm<<<<
Cheers!
****@NL "The Truth- Have you read The Ethics of Star Trek, or Religions of Star Trek? They put things in a nice perspective."****
Hi NL,
No I haven't read those, but I am certainly aware of their concepts. And you are right on the mark with them.
As something you might find entertaining... on a different large religious site like this, I wanted to show how ridiculous the "justifications" are that Christians use when it comes to the Bible. So I told them that everything in Star Wars was 100% real and promised only to use the equivalent of religious "justifications" to "PROVE" that Star Wars was real and not simply fiction. I had person after person after person try to prove otherwise and "amazingly" they couldn't after 2 full months. It was quite hilarious and surprisingly easy on my end.
LOL
Cheers!
🙂
*******@Eric G. "Heavensent: "Interesting. Non-believers skipped right over Romans 1." >"Sorry, I must have been in Science class."*****
LOL.... I think you were being way too specific in this instance... in this case you could have just said, "Sorry, I must have been in class." 😉
Cheers!
@David Johnson- Your logic is flawed because you are trying to attribute human logic and emotion onto God. Maybe you could thrust human logic and emotion onto a monkey and have a good companion for yourself....cheers.
Since my long version of your post doesn't get accepted. I'll shorten my answer. Science and Jesus' teachings in scriptures match perfectly. Sperm meets egg(s) to fertilize and produced offspring(s) ... ensuring the human species survival.
Sperm meets sperm does not produce, neither does egg + egg. Only when an opposite partner is brought into the mix, does sperm meet egg to produce offspring which ensures survival of the species.
Amen.
******@HeavenSent: Since my long version of your post doesn't get accepted. I'll shorten my answer.*******
Why are you incapable of posting here? After as much time as you spend here, you should have been able to figure it out since you've been spo-onfed how to do it. It isn't rocket science.
If you want to post whatever keeps getting denied, I'll offer up two options:
Option 1: Pray to your God for you to be allowed to post it.
Option 2: Post it somewhere else, send me the link and I'll post it here for you without a problem.
Now I think we both know option #1 won't work. So if you want to post it somewhere else and need me to post it here for you to prove to you that imaginary CNN modsquadders aren't after you, I will.
*****Science and Jesus' teachings in scriptures match perfectly.*********
You need a new science book.
******Sperm meets egg(s) to fertilize and produced offspring(s) ... ensuring the human species survival.*******
Evolution ensures our survival and at the moment, that means sperm and eggs.
*******Sperm meets sperm does not produce, neither does egg + egg. Only when an opposite partner is brought into the mix, does sperm meet egg to produce offspring which ensures survival of the species.******
Humans no longer need to have s-ex to keep our population alive. If we really wanted to, we could do all of the sperm meets egg in a petri dish with no actual s-ex involved to keep the human race alive. And in the not to distant future, we might not even need women as artificial wombs are on the horizon. They are also able to create sperm from scratch using embryonic tissue.
Thus, ho-mo-se-xuals in the future could be just like everyone else and have kids in an artificial womb. Oh and BTW... ho-mo-se-xual men can already bre-astfeed their baby if they wanted to.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/pregnancy-and-parenting/pregnancy/fertility/future-children2.htm
Peace.
Answer: Male reproductive organ mated with the female reproductive organ (sperm meets egg(s) to reproduce.
Answer: God created the seahorse with both male and female reproductive organs to ensure their reproduction (sperm meets egg(s)).
Answer: Same answer as above. Male and female reproductive organs (sperm meets (egg(s)).
Answer: Same as above.
Answer: God doesn’t make mistakes. Male and female reproductive organs engage ...(sperm meets egg(s) reproducing.
Answer: Only when same s$x partners introduce opposite s3x into the equation, does the egg and sperm come together producing offspring(s).
Answer: Opposite s3x partners from ancient Rome mated create life (sperm meets egg(s).
Answer: The 10 commandments were given to Moses by God. Jesus’ teachings came years later, when He inspired men to write ALL of His spiritual teachings. Sperm meets egg(s) reproduces.
Answer: Jesus’ teaches abundance.
Answer: Jesus’ truth that male and female reproductive organs come in contact causes reproduction (sperm meets egg(s) equation.
Answer: God made man and woman and gave them respective productive organs to go out and be fruitful (sperm meets egg(s) = His multiplying equation.
Answer: Male sperm meets female egg(s) = reproduction.
Answer: Science agrees with Jesus that male sperm meeting female egg(s) reproduces ...whether the sperms or eggs are frozen.
Amen.
The Truth-
Star Wars fan?!? You heretic! Everyone knows that Star Trek is the only fan-worthy Sci. Fi series. 🙂
Still, we need to band together against those new re-imagined Battlestar fans. They have dangerous ideas that may corrupt our youth. Like believing that people will still be using bullets in space. Poor people, they've lost their way!
********@NL: Star Wars fan?!? You heretic! Everyone knows that Star Trek is the only fan-worthy Sci. Fi series.**********
LOL... I like both Star Wars and Star Trek... I just wouldn't call myself a Trekkie (not that there is anything wrong with that). I have seen the movie Trekkies 1& 2 though and they were pretty damn funny.
As for Star Trek, I loved the original series and while TNG was cool, JLP was no Kirk. It was pretty clever though how they reversed the roles of the 4 main characters.... in the original Kirk was impulsive and Spock was the calm collected one and in TNG Wil was the impulsive one and JLP was the calm collected one.
*******Still, we need to band together against those new re-imagined Battlestar fans. They have dangerous ideas that may corrupt our youth. Like believing that people will still be using bullets in space. Poor people, they've lost their way!********
No kidding!... that reminded me that one of the things I heard numerous times while "proving" Star Wars was real were people saying, "There is no sound in space, so therefore it is not real." To which I got to say, "It was in a galaxy far, far away and in that galaxy, there are sounds in space." The distant galaxy, the power of the force, etc "magically" were able to "justify" much of it being "real." Instead of something being a "miracle" it was just the mystical power of the force. LMAO
Cheers bud!
🙂
Oh, no comment the truthnot? Keep up with your post about the genetic reasoning and forget that these men brought women into the mix to carry on their seed. Everyone in your studies is leaving these women (the mother) out and focusing on the men that passed their beliefs/behaviors down from generation to generation. Therefore, your studies you printed are NULL and VOID.
@HeavenSent: Oh, no comment the truthnot?*******
LOL... you ignore question after question after question from me and now you're going to throw a mini hissy fit when I don't respond?
Here's why I didn't repond:
1) I had no idea who it was directed to since you neglected to say.
2) You give no points of reference as to what your ANSWER is actually attempting to answer.
3) It makes no sense and is just gibberish over and over again.
*******Keep up with your post about the genetic reasoning and forget that these men brought women into the mix to carry on their seed. Everyone in your studies is leaving these women (the mother) out and focusing on the men that passed their beliefs/behaviors down from generation to generation.********
Are you completely daft? The mothers are CLEARLY not being left out since some of the items I talked about deal DIRECTLY with them.
******Therefore, your studies you printed are NULL and VOID.********
Here's a good tip for you... don't ever use the word "therefore" because that implies you are able to use logic to reach a conclusion, which clearly you are not. Your line above produces an illogical conclusion. Congrats on putting your ignorance on display yet again.
When you come to the realization that you can't change your finger length, nor number of brothers, etc by choice, then you'll be ahead of the game.
Cheers.