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March 6th, 2011
12:15 PM ET
Celibacy and the priesthoodCNN's Becky Anderson talks with Father Alberto Cutie, an American priest who was at the center of a celibacy scandal. Anderson asked Cutie if he would have announced his affair if he had not been caught by the paparazzi cannonading on a beach with a woman. At the time he was a prominent Catholic priest in Miami, Florida. Today Cutie is a priest in an Episcopal church. Cutie was CNN-I's connector of the day. |
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********@John Medford: "Since 1972, the evils that have befallen the Catholic Church and the Vatican include the “deception of the century”, the murder of Pope John Paul I, a cardinal consorting with the devil that was within 5 votes of becoming elected Pope."******
Hi John,
As much as I'd love to jump on this train, I do my best to try and keep things "real." And that statement in particular seemed rather absurd to me. First off, the votes are kept secret. Secondly, there was no indication that I saw (not saying there wasn't one, just not that I saw) which showed that Giovanni Benelli was consorting with the devil. The reports were that Benelli came within 9 votes, not 5 (but once again, it was in secret).
I did a quick search, found where that information came from and the sites where that information was posted seemed to be not a very credible source of information.
Like I said, just trying to keep it real.
Conspiracy theories such as these would likely carry more weight where 1/4 of a billion dollars went missing. And once again, not saying these are true or false, just that they exist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_I_conspiracy_theories
Or one can go back to where the Vatican actually allowed prosti-tutes to use churches as brothels in the past to modern day with gay prost-itute scandals. (need to change the "3" to an "e" below:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/04/vatican-gay-s3x-scandal
The RCC is so dirty and corrupt that it isn't even funny.
Peace.
To be a priest you ought to have to have you nuts cut off.
I disagree. How do you know he didn't repent? So, he got "caught" after 2 years you say. Is that any different then the Catholic priests that were abusing kids, and got caught, mayby for years?
You said,
When we sin, we need to repent of it….not try to tear down the Church that Jesus Christ founded, in an attempt to justify ourselves
With your statement in mind, is this what one of the Sisters of Fatima is doing, or is she telling you something in the last line of this>
(This was posted under another thread, quite interesting, I am reposting it for you)
"How I warned and warned that satan would enter into the highest realms of the hierarchy in Rome. The Third Secret, My child, is that satan would enter into My Son's Church." – Our Lady of the Roses, May 13, 1978
--------------------------–
Since 1972, the evils that have befallen the Catholic Church and the Vatican include the “deception of the century”, the murder of Pope John Paul I, a cardinal consorting with the devil that was within 5 votes of becoming elected Pope, the devastating decline in priestly and religious vocations, the June 26, 2000 forgery, and the "scandal of the millennium" (the clergy s–ex-abuse scandal).
And few people have even made the connection to the warnings given by Our Lady of Fatima.
"I say this evening, as your God, that on that date [1972], as promised at Fatima, satan entered My Church upon earth. He brought with him his agents–and satan himself, the deceiver of all mankind–sat in on Vatican II and maneuvered all the outsiders to come in and distort My doctrines and distort the truth.
"At Fatima, My Mother tried to warn of this coming event, but who cared to listen? Who was interested in listening? Not those who were years–earth-years away. All Heaven was crying in that time, for the Eternal Father had made it known how His message would be received. To this day, to your earth-year of 1986, you have not been given, My children, the full secrets as given to the children at Fatima.
"Therefore, I must make it known at this time to you. If you are perceiving and interested in My Church upon earth, I do not have to explain Myself too fully; for you will already know of the chaos that satan has wrought when he entered My Church. And why did he enter, you say? This I want it made known, My child–and you will not be affrighted as you are now–you will speak out for Me and My Mother, and the Eternal Father in the Holy Spirit; you will speak out and say that satan is in the Church, My Church upon earth. He knows his time is growing short.
My child–and you will not be affrighted as you are now–you will speak out for Me and My Mother, and the Eternal Father in the Holy Spirit; you will speak out and say that satan is in the Church, My Church upon earth. He knows his time is growing short."
Are you speaking out, or turning a deaf ear and a blind eye?
"
John Medford,
Thank you for posting. Please see my post for The Truth, posted today, March 9 at 11:00 a.m.
I hope this helps you understand my position better.
I'm glad CNN website used Father Cutie's good photo for display. Usually CNN webpages use the most bizzare kind of photos of those whom they feature for display except for their own anchors.
Justina (Christian),
Yes, often you can tell how CNN ‘leans’ by the photo they display.
In this case, they approve of Mr. Cutie’s lifestyle…glorifying his breakdown of vows… This type of scandal where a priest decides to live a lie but still wants to be a priest, sort of, out of pride, but really likes media attention more than anything, makes for a juicy story and excellent meat for anti-Catholic rhetoric.
CatholicMom
Justina (Christian),
Yes, often you can tell how CNN ‘leans’ by the photo they display.
In this case, they approve of Mr. Cutie’s lifestyle…glorifying his breakdown of vows… This type of scandal where a priest decides to live a lie but still wants to be a priest, sort of, out of pride, but really likes media attention more than anything, makes for a juicy story and excellent meat for anti-Catholic rhetoric.
This is the kind of "Christian" thinking that is nothing but judgemental and rude. This BS the Catholics come out with, is ridicolous. The man realized he had feelings for a woman, and submitted to them. Oh where oh where is your forgiveness, CatholicMm? I am sure Jesus forgave him.
So, the guy rights this and marrys the one he is in love with. He still wants to serve the Lord, but has to take a lesser stance in the Catholic Church. Read your church history. Marriage was acceptable and was taught by the apostles. One of your popes, changed it, and broke the word of God and the tradition of it, as well. It has consequences. which is why Satan has infiltrated the Catholic Church.
Thus, he is recieved into the REAL church, the one WHERE GODS LOVE AND FORGIVENESS AND ACCEPTANCE is, the Episcopal church! I see Christ there more then on the glorified Catholic Church, with all the$$$$, pomp and gold and fancy dresses.
God don't condemn Cutie, why do you Catholic mom?
All these things you are saying about the man, that is spreading untruths! How is he living a lie?
At least he didn't stay there in the CC, and molest kids, like some did.
I see you spouting off like this, about someone who slipped, confessed, and did the right thing, But when it comes to all the molestations by the Catholic preists and the popes that turned thier heads and shifted them to other parishes, you have nothing to say!
Seems very hrpocritical to me. what you are about.
John Medford,
Cutie would most likely still be living his lie had it not been for the camera that caught him in his double life. He was into 2 years of it but ended up feeling bad about it because his mother found out ‘before’ he had a chance to tell her. Maybe he would have waited until his child could tell his grandma so he wouldn’t have to, but the camera ended it for him.
According to you we are not to look at actions of people because that means we are judging the person…no, we are judging the action. Judging a person’s soul is up to God, not any person.
God does not condemn people but he does condemn sin and the Father in Heaven is the one who decides the judgment on souls…not you or I. If we live in our pride and say our sin is not sin…we are judging actions. We all have our conscience that God placed within our hearts and we can make use of it or try to ignore it, telling ourselves we are justified in our actions.
We know that the Church will be persecuted from within as well as without…but woe to the one who brings the scandal. How do you know Jesus forgave him as you stated…did he tell you that he went to confession or did he tell you and the world in his own words that he did nothing wrong and that the Catholic Church is wrong instead?
Yes, people are sinners alright…and that means that priests can and do sin; they are people, too. What we do when we have sinned is what God looks at….like the lady at the well…Jesus told her everything about herself and she confessed it was the truth…Jesus said to her that he did not condemn her but to go and sin no more.
When we sin, we need to repent of it….not try to tear down the Church that Jesus Christ founded, in an attempt to justify ourselves.
Papal Succession was man made.
Even in the Church of 325 A.D, there was stiff opposition to the idea that the Bishop of Rome should have some kind of supreme seat over all other synods and Bishops. The synods of Edessa, Alexandria, Jerusalem and Babylon among others, opposed the very idea of having a Pontifex Maximus, a name used by the pagan Emperor of Rome. It was basically the idea of the Emperor of Rome, Constantine the “great” to have a Pope. In this way, the Church could become a tool for his Worldly kingdom.
When the Papacy was forced up on the Church, the Assyrian Eastern Church broke free. Christianity from Syria and Iraq towards the distant costs of Kerala in India never accepted the supremacy of the Western Roman Church empire. The other synods were either brought in submission or silenced. The Baptist Church again became an underground movement, which Church history has never been written.
Hello Truth! How are you doing my friend? 🙂
I am with you on the whole priests getting married thing. Truth is, most of the bishops and priests were married back then. I don't understand why CatholicMom says,so what about what they use to do regarding celibacy? It was what God said thru his apostles was the right thing to do. It does not change. No man, pope or otherwise, cna change or alter the word of God.
It seems , that it was actually changed by one of the su-ccessors. If you believe in the su-ccession of the apostles, which is also a manmade concept, according to the history of the church, within this article..
Here is an article, written by a Roman Catholic Married Priest. I have posted some of it here, but there is more, if you care to read it. I don't understand how people support whatever they are told, without looking at the facts.
http://johnshuster.com/thirtynine_popes.htm
History fully supports a married priesthood. For the first 1200 years of the Church’s existence, priests, bishops and 39 popes were married.3 Celibacy existed in the first century among hermits and monks, but it was considered an optional, alternative lifestyle. Medieval politics brought about the discipline of mandatory celibacy for priests.
Let’s remember the words of Jesus: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church." St. Peter, the pope who was closest to Jesus, was married. There are three references in the Gospel about St. Peter’s wife, his mother-in-law and his family. Based on Jewish law and custom, we can safely as=sume that all of the Apostles, except for young John, were married with families.4
Married priests and their spouses were the first pastors, the first bishops, the first missionaries. They carried the mes=sage of Jesus across cultures and protected it through many hardships. They guided the fra-gile young Church through its early growth and helped it survive numerous pers-ecutions.
Pope John Paul II recognized this in 1993 when he said publicly that celibacy is not essential to the priesthood.5 This pronouncement offers great promise toward resolving the problem of the shortage of celibate priests
Inside this link, (which I tried to post, but it moderated too may times) are alot of interesting facts.
It tells how women had authority in the church, how preists were allowed to marry, and bishops, and tells how the
"popes" and roman leadership changed things and why. It also says alot of the new rules that were made were not for the good of christians, but for greed, power and so on.
******@Mary: Hello Truth! How are you doing my friend? *******
Good thanks, how are you? 🙂
******I am with you on the whole priests getting married thing. Truth is, most of the bishops and priests were married back then. I don't understand why CatholicMom says,so what about what they use to do regarding celibacy? It was what God said thru his apostles was the right thing to do. It does not change. No man, pope or otherwise, cna change or alter the word of God.******
I agree. If man is going to alter the Bible and the word of God, then the whole thing becomes invalid. What the CC does is akin to watching Star Wars, but pulling out all the parts that Darth Vader is really Luke's father. The story will still make some sense, but the main gist of it gets lost in the process.
******Here is an article, written by a Roman Catholic Married Priest. I have posted some of it here, but there is more, if you care to read it. I don't understand how people support whatever they are told, without looking at the facts.
http://johnshuster.com/thirtynine_popes.htm********
Thanks, it was an interesting read. 🙂
And he is correct. It makes no sense for priests not to be married and it makes no sense for women to not be able to be priests as well. It is one of the biggest acts of discrimination still left in America. There is no reason why a female can't be just as good of a priest as a male can. That in and of itself would double their viable candidate pool for priests.
And as I posted to Justina above, 62% of priests 20 years ago had broken their celibacy and that number now is likely higher. So it isn't working anyway. And of course the CC is being hypocritical again by throwing down the law only once someone gets caught. They know there are other child molesters and they know there are other priests breaking celibacy, yet we don't hear about these people getting in trouble unless they get caught by the media first. The whole thing makes them look like a laughing stock.
Also, just so you know for future reference, if you ever post to me like this and I don't write back, it will be because I didn't see it, not because I would be ignoring you. I accidentally stumbled onto this post and would have come close to missing it. This site is horrible with trying to keep track of people and their posts. So if that ever happens in the future, I apologize in advance. 😉
Hope all is well in your world!
🙂
Forced celibacy by a church hierarchy is a doctrine of the devil (I Timothy 4). If you choose to be celibate in your own life as a part of your walk with God, go for it. You're a stronger person than I. But for a church to forbid people to marry (or eat meat...) is of the devil and not of God.
Catholic Church doesn't forbid marriage but requires celibacy for those who would dedicate their lifetime to serve God and the Church. We know trees by the fruits. Matthew 5. Celibacy is NOT of devils though it is used against by them just like any other good thing. Christians with celibacy throught the history and the world accomplished most beautiful works. Jesus and His apostles were all celibate.
Matt 19: 12 " For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven."
Not the way to go in my opinion and not a good reference for promoting celibacy.
Definition of a eunuch:
1. A castrated man employed as a harem attendant or as a functionary in certain Asian courts.
2. A man or boy whose testes are nonfunctioning or have been removed.
3. Informal. An ineffectual, powerless, or unmasculine man.
Reality, Jesus never meant a harem worker. He meant people who cannot marry or would not marry. What He said is universally true about mankind.
Hmmm, why then did not Jesus say what he meant?. Of course, said statement adds additional credence to the following:
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead, considered himself to be a eunuch. etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Jesus meant simply life-time single people by the word "eunuch." Reality, all you need is to read the whole text of the Bible. There were eye-witnesses of the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus of Nazareth and they recorded them. It's you who are imagining nothing happened.
Justina,
"There were eye-witnesses of the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus of Nazareth and they recorded them."
Paul *said* that there were over 500 of them, but he did not name, interview, put under oath, or provide docu.mentation for a single one of them. I call that talking through one's hat.
Jochebed,
No one is forced to choose celibacy by the Church. If you think you want to be a priest, you have many years in seminary to discern whether this is a vocation for you or not. Celibacy is a discipline…not a doctrine.
Making sacrifice in your life which helps you to bring to mind the things of God rather than the things of the world is a discipline that helps one live a holy life. Have you ever said to yourself, I will not have this apple pie out of Love of God…and then spend some time in prayer to God? We can choose how to sacrifice but we are expected to do so as a discipline. It is a good thing and it does work to help us be ever conscious of our walk in life.
The teaching Magisterium of the Church has the authority to pronounce discipline where faith and morals are concerned. But some people do not like laws and rules as we see how people respond to them in our society….but that does not mean that discipline is not necessary, right?
******@CatholicMom: No one is forced to choose celibacy by the Church. If you think you want to be a priest, you have many years in seminary to discern whether this is a vocation for you or not. Celibacy is a discipline…not a doctrine.*****
Mom, this is a massive case of semantics.
Let's just call a spade a spade. If you want to be a Catholic priest from scratch, you need to remain celibate. It's as simple as that. This is just more of the church intentionally trying to confuse people.
*********Making sacrifice in your life which helps you to bring to mind the things of God rather than the things of the world is a discipline that helps one live a holy life.***********
Making priests live without TV would be a much better use of "sacrificing" to closer to God. God wants us to have s-ex via genetics, not necessarily to watch TV. Please just accept the fact that they don't want married priests because of the large additional monetary cost to them.
******.but that does not mean that discipline is not necessary, right?********
Mom, this is a case of hypocrisy at its finest. There are around 100 married Catholic priests (give or take some) in the US. The fact that the Church allows them to be priests without this "discipline" just goes to illustrate how insanely ridiculous this entire concept is. Some priests need to have this discipline, but others don't?
Had Father Cutie been married as a Protestant priest first and then tried to convert to Catholicism, the Church would have welcomed him with open arms and he'd still be a Catholic priest now! Yet SIMPLY BECAUSE he was a Catholic priest first, he gets kicked to the curb. It is beyond absurd.
Hopefully you can see how the RCC is trying to play mind games with their flock about this. They don't want the extra cost of families and potential alimony and child support and so they make up this "discipline" crock and feed it to the faithful. Yet then they turn around and say the discipline doesn't matter when it comes to certain other current Catholic priests. Then you factor in the enormously high percentage of Catholic priests that break their vows of celibacy, the RCC is creating a very unhappy workplace for the vast majority of their priests who realize this is a crock. It's a horribly naive policy.
Cheers!
The Truth,
Yes, if you want to be a priest ‘from scratch’ as you say…the discipline of celibacy is for you. If you are single [man or woman] and do not plan a vocation as a ‘religious’ and do not plan to marry [Sacrament of Matrimony] then the discipline of celibacy is for you.
There are no protestant priests that I know of but if a married minister of a protestant ecclesial community becomes Catholic and he wishes to become a religious, each circ-umstance is taken by the Church on an individual basis. Most married priests come from the Anglican Church, that I know of.
There are no games played as you state. We take our faith very seriously. Those who break their vows, whether vows taken in the Sacrament of Holy Orders or the Sacrament of Matrimony are serious matters. Learning to stay away from temptation [which is from satan] is a smart move. All people make decisions every day….hopefully all choose wisely and stay away from sin. If one chooses unwisely, Jesus Christ knowing how man is not to be trusted, inst!tuted the Sacrament of Penance/Reconciliation. ‘ Luke 5:32 I came not to call the just, but sinners to penance.’
So, if you know about the Church that Jesus Christ founded, and know about His Sacraments…you know how great His love is for us. ‘John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and keep them not, I do not judge him: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world’. ‘John 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting’. So if we believe then we act upon our belief and DO what the Father wills. This is what sets us sinners apart from satan…he also believes but he refuses to do the Father’s will, due to his pride. Once we are Baptized we have Jesus Christ living in us and it is He that is WORKING through us and so we must not sit still and say "I believe' and now do nothing about our believing! Jesus Christ expects us to do as He would do and that is not to sit there and pronounce our belief and not show it! He said how much He loved us and He SHOWED us. We must do the same!
Satan would love to tear down Jesus Christ’s Church because then we would not have access to the many graces God bestows upon us through His Church. He knows he must knock down our main defense if he is to win us over; the Catholic Church is our defense and satan is working over-time to expose the wickedness of the sinners who use the Church for wrong purposes, and thank God for this, for scandals shall come but woe to the ones who bring it. [Matthew 18:7] But satan will not destroy the Church although he may be able to tear down some priests and cause some people to leave the Church because they see the Church as the sinful ent!ty even though it is the people who are the sinners, not the House of God. Jesus Christ’s promise to the Apostles: ‘John 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.’
The Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, and His Sacraments are for those of us who are sinners…those who are sinless will not seek out these gifts. The Church is like a hospital for the sick! 'Mark 2:17…Jesus hearing this, saith to them: They that are well have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. For I came not to call the just, but sinners.'
Knowing that commandments and disciplines are made for sinners, tells us that Jesus Christ cares about sinners. ‘1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for the just man, but for the unjust and disobedient, for the ungodly, and for sinners, for the wicked and defiled, for murderers of fathers, and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,…’
‘Matthew 9:13 Go then and learn what this meaneth, I will have mercy and not sacrifice. For I am not come to call the just, but sinners.’
Testing, Please Ignore:
*******CatholicMom: Yes, if you want to be a priest ‘from scratch’ as you say…the discipline of celibacy is for you. If you are single [man or woman] and do not plan a vocation as a ‘religious’ and do not plan to marry [Sacrament of Matrimony] then the discipline of celibacy is for you.*****
Fair enough. I just wanted to say it like it is. The CC are masters of overcomplicating things in an effort to confuse the faithful. It gives them and the faithful more ways to "justify" things.
Regarding celibacy for the two groups above, it just clearly does not work. I posted the stats and they show that priests and nuns don't stick to this because it is unreasonable in this day and age. I don't think any less of a priest or nun who has consensual s-ex... in fact I think they are "normal." With regard to those not getting Holy Orders, preaching celibacy is once again a pipe dream. This is precisely why more than 3/4 of all women getting abortions have religious affiliations and why the Bible Belt has by far the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the country. It does not work. The CC is CAUSING abortions, is CAUSING S-TD's, is CAUSING HI-V/AI-DS, etc, etc, etc by not properly educating their flock about safe se-xual practices because they are too busy preaching abstinence and threatening hell for these sinners. Do you know how many people the Pope has murdered by saying that condoms don't protect against S-TD's/HI-V?
*******There are no protestant priests that I know of but if a married minister of a protestant ecclesial community becomes Catholic and he wishes to become a religious, each circ-umstance is taken by the Church on an individual basis. Most married priests come from the Anglican Church, that I know of.******
This depends on how you define Protestants. Anglicans, Lutherans, Episcopalians, etc can all be placed under that heading. As can you separate out Anglicans out as their own separate ent-ity. But another case of semantics as we are on the same page. 😉
*********There are no games played as you state. We take our faith very seriously.**********
I'm not saying that you don't take your faith seriously. What I'm saying is that they go out of their way to confuse the flock.
For instance, I got up and felt like I needed some infrared radiation help this morning. So I decided to plug in my radiation device to an electrical outlet that was capable of handling the voltage necessary to operate it. It uses a nichrome wire that is wrapped around a mica sheet back and forth and back and forth. The nichrome alloy is important because is will not oxidize under the heat from the radiation. So I decide to get started by depressing the mechanism that triggers the radiation to begin. Once depressed, a metal tab on the mechanism connects with an electromagnet to keep the mechanism lowered while the radiation begins. The power runs into a circuit board comprised of transistors, resistors and capacitors. After setting the length of time that I want the radiation to continue, a timer then releases the electromagnet and the radiation ends.
Interesting stuff huh?
In case you were interested, I just described to you how a common kitchen toaster works.
That is what the CC are masters of doing. They so over-complicate things that it is amazing. You referring to the "discipline" vs "doctrine" above is an example of this.
Do I need to know all of that information to simply toast a piece of bread? No. I walk in, put a slice of bread in, push the button down and wait for it to pop up. Both the simple explanation and the complex one lead to the same result.
Keep in mind, back in the day of Jesus, people weren't educated like they are today. A child in grade school today probably knows more about the earth and our universe than the vast majority of adults back in Jesus' time. That is PRECISELY why Jesus spoke in parables. Jesus needed things to be simple so that EVERYONE could understand.
Now with that said, what percentage of Catholics understand the Catholic "rules" with 100% accuracy? I'd guess it is way less than 1%. Heck, even most of the priests don't know all of it 100%. You are obviously well versed in it and yet if the Pope gave you a quiz on all of it, you couldn't pass 100%. Do you not see an issue with this? Why are they making it so ridiculously complex that the average person can't grasp all of it? Is that really even remotely similar to what Jesus did?
You had mentioned Mary earlier. What was perhaps the original feast day for her was called, "Memory of Mary, Mother of God." That's fine... everyone can pretty much understand that... I think we'll agree. Let's look at some of her current feasts in the CC:
Our Lady of Prompt Succor
Mediatrix of all Graces
Our Lady of Perpetual Help
Our Lady of Mount Carmel
Our Lady of Walsingham
Our Lady of Knock
And so on and so forth. What percentage of Catholics do you think would even know what all of those are? It would be a miniscule percentage. What percentage of Catholics even know what country Walsingham is in? What percentage of Catholics know what "Knock" is? What percentage of Catholics know what country Mount Carmel is in? What percentage of Catholics know what the word "Perpetual" means? Many adults will know this, but many will not. The vast majority of children would not know. What percentage of Catholics would know what "Succor" means? Hardly anyone. Instead of them saying, "Our Lady Who Gives Quick Help in Time of Distress" they go with something that confuses the faithful.... they do this ON PURPOSE. Why? Because it gives them more control over you and the flock.
And Mediatrix? I mean really? Does she come armed with whips and chains and is clad in black leather as the Mediatrix? LOL (This is not be confused with her being the "Co-Redemptrix.")
The CC could make this all really easy for EVERYONE to understand, but they INTENTIONALLY do not. The reason for this is because they want it to be as confusing as possible so that you NEED the Church to explain it. If they made it simplified, then people could do it on their own and not need the church which means less money in the basket for them. They are using their faithful for THEIR benefit.
*******Those who break their vows, whether vows taken in the Sacrament of Holy Orders or the Sacrament of Matrimony are serious matters. Learning to stay away from temptation [which is from satan] is a smart move. All people make decisions every day….hopefully all choose wisely and stay away from sin.*********
I agree with the gist. However, not all temptation is "bad."
********If one chooses unwisely, Jesus Christ knowing how man is not to be trusted, inst!tuted the Sacrament of Penance/Reconciliation. ‘ Luke 5:32 I came not to call the just, but sinners to penance.’**********
Yes, and he SPECIFICALLY tells us to pray alone in our room as to not be a hypocrite in public. Jesus' words, not mine.
Regarding "choosing" wisely, it reminds me of the scene in The Last Crusade where they have to pick the cup of Christ. One guy picks a beautiful gold chalice and bites the dust while Indy realizes that the cup of carpenter would be a simple wooden cup, not something of extrava-gance. While of course this is just a movie, some wisdom is to be found here. The CC is loaded with gold chalices, etc while the hungry stay hungry. The example of the million dollar wooden chair is a prime example of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DGFuHC75aY
********So, if you know about the Church that Jesus Christ founded, and know about His Sacraments…you know how great His love is for us.********
I do know about it. It was one of simplicity, not complex jargon. It was one of unconditional love, not discrimination. It was one of giving, not hoarding. It was one of loving children, not ra-ping them.
*******‘John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and keep them not, I do not judge him: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world’. ‘John 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting’. ******
There is really no need to quote the Bible. Why? Because for everything you can quote, I can quote back equally. If you'd like me to quote how it is impossible for Jesus to have been born, I can do that. If you want me to quote all the spots where God unambiguously commands you to kill, I can do that. If you want me to quote you how Jesus says to pray in your room alone, not in church, I can do that. If you want me to quote how God forgot the order of creation, I can do that. Etc, etc, etc. The fact is that all believers cherry pick out parts of the Bible and blatantly ignore others.
The point of the Bible is to get the overriding gist and theme of it. That is to love your neighbor as yourself, live in peace, treat your fellow man with respect, etc. This has not only to do with the cherry picking just mentioned, but also due to the massive amount of info that is lost in translation over the centuries.
*******Satan would love to tear down Jesus Christ’s Church because then we would not have access to the many graces God bestows upon us through His Church. He knows he must knock down our main defense if he is to win us over; the Catholic Church is our defense and satan is working over-time to expose the wickedness of the sinners who use the Church for wrong purposes*********
So why are you funding satan instead of rebelling back against him? What if Satan is the Pope? If I were Satan, that's what I would do. And no matter how much you say otherwise, there is no way to say that the Pope isn't Satan because no one knows for sure. Yet it is possible.
******and thank God for this, for scandals shall come but woe to the ones who bring it.*******
"Thank God" for children being ra-ped??? Really?
******[Matthew 18:7] But satan will not destroy the Church although he may be able to tear down some priests and cause some people to leave the Church because they see the Church as the sinful ent!ty even though it is the people who are the sinners, not the House of God. Jesus Christ’s promise to the Apostles: ‘John 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.’ The Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, and His Sacraments are for those of us who are sinners…those who are sinless will not seek out these gifts. The Church is like a hospital for the sick! 'Mark 2:17…Jesus hearing this, saith to them: They that are well have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. For I came not to call the just, but sinners.' Knowing that commandments and disciplines are made for sinners, tells us that Jesus Christ cares about sinners. ‘1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for the just man, but for the unjust and disobedient, for the ungodly, and for sinners, for the wicked and defiled, for murderers of fathers, and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,…’ ‘Matthew 9:13 Go then and learn what this meaneth, I will have mercy and not sacrifice. For I am not come to call the just, but sinners.’**************
More quotes. More quotes. More quotes. Let me ask you the exact same question I asked Justina earlier (and I'm copying and pasting below, so please excuse the tone as it is not directed toward you). The quote I am referencing is Matthew 25 which is also provided below:
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If you are such a good Christian, what are you doing here? Are there no homeless people you could be helping instead? Are there no hungry in your area?
I watched Secret Millionaire tonight and there were two old ladies that were running a kitchen for the needy. They donated a massive percentage of their life to helping the hungry. Why aren't you doing that? I have no idea if those ladies were Christian or not, but regardless of whether they read the Qur'an, are atheist, etc they are still FAR more Christian than most of the Christians on these boards. To be a Christian means to act like Christ.... not to run around twisting the Bible to justify your lifestyle.
Or on 60 Minutes tonight, they talked about the plethora of families that are homeless due solely to the economy that lost their houses. They are living in cars, without electricity, their children are going to bed hungry, etc. Why aren't you helping them? Do you have no room in your home? Is there no couch for them to sleep on?
But hey, keep blogging because I'm sure God will appreciate you pretending to speak on God's behalf far more than you actually helping those who are truly in need.
1) Do you or do you not have room on your couch for some homeless people, kids, families to sleep?
2) Do you or do you not have poor and hungry people in your city that you could be helping instead of blogging here?
3) Do you or do you not have some extra blankets and clothes that you don't use/wear that you could be out giving to people living outside in the cold who need them FAR more than you do?
I think we both know the answers to those questions. You can sit there and claim to be a Christian all you want until you are blue in the face, but the realities are that actions speak louder than words and the only thing that's happening here is hypocrisy. If you were a true Christian, you'd be out "doing" instead of being here "talking."
Those old ladies I was telling you about on Secret Millionaire were busy cooking for and feeding the needy.... they weren't sitting on CNN talking about what a good Christian they are. Yet some people don't have enough courage to look in the mirror and realize the truth.
As for "telling ignorant atheists some truth" as a ministry, there are plenty of homeless atheists that you can "minister" to... get off of your high horse, take some extra food from your fridge, take some extra blankets you have in the garage and go out and give them to the homeless who are shivering in the cold at night while you, "the good Christian," are nice and cozy in your heated home in your nice warm bed.
I'm sure Jesus would have left people hungry and out in the cold too.
You claim to be a Christian. Being a Christian means being a follower of Christ. Being a follower of Christ means that you should try to emulate him.
The facts are that YOU self-impose that label upon yourself. When I had that label on me, I realized that I was just being a hypocrite by having it. Thus, I dropped the ti-tle as there was no need for me to be a hypocrite. The difference is that your insecurity doesn't allow you that same level of self-honesty.
What you are doing is akin to saying that you are president of the Beach Boys Fan Club (since they sing God Only Knows, they get to play the role of Christians) and then you say you hate the Beatles (who will represent atheists since Lennon said they were more popular than Jesus). Thus, you love the Beach Boys and hate the Beatles.... yet then you run around all day playing Hey Jude, Come Together, Here Comes the Sun, etc, etc, etc.
The moral of the story: You can CLAIM to be whatever you want, but just because you claim it doesn't make it so. I claim to be 24 feet tall, but that doesn't make it true no matter how much I try to trick myself into believing it. So you can run around claiming you are a Christian all you want, but when you are leaving YOUR OWN SAVIOR hungry, cold and homeless, I'll say that you are a hypocrite.
And you know what, I'll quote YOUR BIBLE and YOUR SAVIOR to prove it. From Matthew 25:
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“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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So what part of that are you unable to understand? Do the words of YOUR SAVIOR not matter? Are you so daft that you pretend to worship this man to get into Heaven and yet then turn around and ignore what he says and ignore how to get into Heaven? I guess so.
In any event, when your day comes to face Jesus and he asks why you left him thirsty, hungry, unclothed, unsheltered, etc... I'd love to see the look on your face. You can't lie to him now and say you weren't aware because I am putting you on notice and since God is omniscient, he knows that I am doing this on his behalf.
Good luck with trying to "justify" you way out of that one. I hope you are left handed as perhaps it will make the transition to the left a tiny bit easier for you.
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So once again, the tone was not directed toward you, but the concept is the same. If we want to quote the Bible, then I ask why are you leaving your Savior cold, hungry and homeless? After all, Jesus himself says that will result in eternal punishment. Once again, his words, not mine.
Peace!
🙂
Please disregard the "Testing please ignore" above as that wasn't meant to be included. Thanks.
The Truth,
You mentioned that morality as we discussed it is ‘unreasonable in this day and age’…no; what was True in the ages past is still True today. Truth cannot change. We can come to know Truth more fully but, I can tell, you understand all of that anyway so no need to go into it with you. Abortions, and all kinds of STD’s/HIV/Aids diseases are not caused by the Pope and his proclamation about the evils of condoms. People who wish to partake of gifts that were not for them often pile sin upon sin…thinking they are safe...they partake even more!
You can be funny… there for a minute I thought you were going to zap your own skin cancer with that toaster!
I know what you mean about Catholics not knowing their Faith. We really need to be up on it and then it is so much easier to see how everything fits together…Tradition, Bible, and the Magisterium. We come in contact with the fullness of Truth as the Holy Spirit knows we can bear it. The Catholic Church is not trying to complicate things at all. There is beauty in knowing the Truth as She has it.
…That includes understanding Mary’s roll in our Salvation. There is much to read and understand about Mary but I think we both have covered her quite well though others may wish to look up Mediatrix and/or Co-Redemptrix , especially Catholics. For those interested, there are writings by Popes…. Lumen gentium is a good one to start with.
You are right, not all temptation is a bad thing…like being tempted to get up off the couch and turn off the tv and go help your neighbor…. but in the context of what we are talking about here….you know we are talking about putting ourselves in a position where we might fall into sin.
Yes, You should pray in your room…. you should pray always, that is, pray without ceasing…and so that would mean in your room, in public or where ever you are!
The gold chalices, the magnificent Churches, all the beauty…it is all for the glory of God.
I didn’t think we misunderstand each other all that much… but this one time is huge…
I said ‘thank God that the wickedness of those who have used the Church for their evil deeds is being exposed’ by satan and his cohorts working over-time… satan must think that now is the right time to get the most out of his efforts…many will and have fallen away from the Church because of the scandal. Satan knows he cannot defeat the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit will not let evil prevail against His Church, so satan is opting for the most damage that he thinks he can do. He has caused much pain but in the end…the Church will be victorious.
Ok, I read what you directed at Justina….and your Bible quotes. I like Bible quotes but you complain if anyone uses them, yet you do… Come on now!
As for myself I know what I do for my neighbor. [My neighbor is everyone in the world.] Only God can judge if I do enough with the talents He gave me.
I can say…I think you watch more tv than I do!
Thanks for explaining the ‘testing..please...ignore’; I just ignored it!
********@CatholicMom: You mentioned that morality as we discussed it is ‘unreasonable in this day and age’…no; what was True in the ages past is still True today. Truth cannot change. We can come to know Truth more fully but, I can tell, you understand all of that anyway so no need to go into it with you.**********
This is merely a matter of perspective. Neither one of us are right nor wrong on this.
The reason why I said it is unreasonable is because today we know that s-ex has actual health benefits. It is unreasonable IMHO to have employees that are being deprived of good health. The healthier the priests are, the better they can tend to their parishioners.
*****Abortions, and all kinds of STD’s/HIV/Aids diseases are not caused by the Pope and his proclamation about the evils of condoms. People who wish to partake of gifts that were not for them often pile sin upon sin…thinking they are safe...they partake even more!********
Do you honestly think that not one abortion nor one case of HIV/AIDS has been caused by the Pope's comments where someone had unprotected s-ex as a result?
********You can be funny… there for a minute I thought you were going to zap your own skin cancer with that toaster!*****
LOL... I try to keep it lighthearted where I can as I know these topics bring out strong emotions. As for my skin cancer, I use tanning beds to zap that. 😉
******I know what you mean about Catholics not knowing their Faith. We really need to be up on it and then it is so much easier to see how everything fits together…Tradition, Bible, and the Magisterium. We come in contact with the fullness of Truth as the Holy Spirit knows we can bear it. The Catholic Church is not trying to complicate things at all. There is beauty in knowing the Truth as She has it.********
I think the issue is that it is hard for Catholics to do this because the Church makes it extremely difficult for the average person to understand.
*******You are right, not all temptation is a bad thing…like being tempted to get up off the couch and turn off the tv and go help your neighbor…. but in the context of what we are talking about here….you know we are talking about putting ourselves in a position where we might fall into sin.******
I just don't believe that priest being tempted to have consensual s-ex with a woman is a bad thing. All human beings should be able to experience the power and beauty of love.
********Yes, You should pray in your room…. you should pray always, that is, pray without ceasing…and so that would mean in your room, in public or where ever you are!*********
What Jesus is implying in that passage is to not go to Church for the sake of going to Church so that others see you are a good person. This is why he uses the term "hypocrites" numerous times. While I can not speak on behalf of God, something tells me that he'd rather people spend that hour or two of Church per week to be out helping the needy instead (as what would seem to be loosely implied in that passage).
Think about it... if every good Christian didn't go to Church on Sunday and instead spent that exact same time helping the needy, what a better world we would all live in.
*******The gold chalices, the magnificent Churches, all the beauty…it is all for the glory of God.******
But isn't that the anti-thesis of Jesus? Jesus was about giving away earthly possessions and instead to help the poor and needy. I think Jesus would be appalled at that sort of excess.
*******I didn’t think we misunderstand each other all that much… but this one time is huge…
I said ‘thank God that the wickedness of those who have used the Church for their evil deeds is being exposed’ by satan and his cohorts working over-time… satan must think that now is the right time to get the most out of his efforts…many will and have fallen away from the Church because of the scandal. Satan knows he cannot defeat the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit will not let evil prevail against His Church, so satan is opting for the most damage that he thinks he can do. He has caused much pain but in the end…the Church will be victorious.********
If Satan knows he can't win, then why is he fighting? It doesn't make logical sense. I know that I could never defeat Hulk Hogan in a fight, so why would I try?
With regard to Satan, if he exists, there is no reason he couldn't be Pope now. There is no reason he couldn't be President. There is no reason he couldn't be Osama Bin Laden. There is no reason why he couldn't have written the Bible in the first place. Etc, etc, etc. All of these things are equally plausible. None of this holds much logical weight as a result.
*******Ok, I read what you directed at Justina….and your Bible quotes. I like Bible quotes but you complain if anyone uses them, yet you do… Come on now!*********
What you said is true. Let me try to explain this. Personally, I think these individual quotes are all ridiculous as the overriding themes are what is truly important. As I've said earlier, I have one of my higher education degrees in the field of Communication. There is just WAY too much lost in translation to hinge on a handful of words. I explain this in much greater depth here:
http://uscatholic.yuku.com/topic/39/Interpretations
Now, with regard to my using the quotes, I have to because others place such an immense value in them. So in order for me to illustrate the over emphasis that people put on their verses, I use other verses to counter them. With that said, I'd MUCH rather have a real conversation with someone about the Bible on a "major concept" or "overriding theme" level than nitpicking meaningless individual lines. But since others don't want to do it, then as the old saying goes, "When in Rome, do as Romans do." I hope that explains my reasoning on this topic.
********As for myself I know what I do for my neighbor. [My neighbor is everyone in the world.] Only God can judge if I do enough with the talents He gave me.*********
That is true, but my point is that you don't do nearly as much as you can. I'm not saying that to be mean as I believe you have good intentions. It is 99.9% of believers that fall into this category. For instance, at your bake sale, instead of doing that, perhaps peanut butter and jelly sandwiches being distributed out to the homeless would have been nice.
So if people are REALLY concerned about going to heaven and if they REALLY believe in the lines in the Bible, then shouldn't they be doing as Jesus instructs them to do??? Isn't that just common sense? What he said in that passage was pretty unambiguous and as a Catholic I'm sure you are well aware of the "Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me" song that used to be sung in Church constantly.
When I left the Church, this was one of my reasons for doing so as I realized I was a hypocrite for calling myself something that I wasn't. While I did good works, I never did as much as I "could" have as Jesus commanded. I liked playing sports, I liked watching TV, I liked traveling, etc, etc, etc. So instead of being a hypocrite, I dropped the label. If the time comes for me to face Jesus, I think he'd appreciate my honesty rather than my living a lie simply for the sake of being greedy in an attempt to attain something better in heaven. I still do my good works, just without the label... and I'm MUCH happier as a result.
*********I can say…I think you watch more tv than I do!*******
That is probably very true! If you haven't seen The Last Crusade, you should check it out as you'd probably like it. Very religious themed and not sacrilegious.
*******Thanks for explaining the ‘testing..please...ignore’; I just ignored it!*******
Thanks... there was something CNN didn't like and so I needed to figure out what it was and tested it on an old thread here, then copied and pasted and was a dodo brain and forgot to remove the disclaimer. Doh!
Peace!
The Truth,
What a good idea to ‘test’ on an old thread! I just knew I would learn something from you!
About those peanut butter and jelly sandwiches….we keep homemade bread in the freezer in the center and healthy [no partially hydrogenated oil] peanut butter and our homemade jelly on a shelf for people who drop in and are hungry. [Either our Priest or the secretary doles it out if none of the kitchen help is there]. The bread is sliced before freezing and we have plastic ‘silver’ware in a baggie for them so they can eat in their car if they have to. Last year we had people living in a motel visit quite often. We also have food certificates for the local grocery store where they can add milk and fruit to their meal. We exchange the bread out of the freezer, to keep it fresh…using it up for our after Mass breakfasts or our Lenten Friday night Soup Suppers so it is always fresh. [It makes the best French Toast, too.] Our bake sale monies buy food for two local food shelves.
You asked, ‘Do you honestly think that not one abortion nor one case of HIV/AIDS has been caused by the Pope's comments where someone had unprotected s-ex as a result? ‘If people listen to the Pope about condoms then they must listen to him about other things, too, such as responsibilities in life situations. Each person has a free will.
A tanning bed to zap skin cancer? That toaster might be safer after all.
You mentioned, ‘I think the issue is that it is hard for Catholics to do this because the Church makes it extremely difficult for the average person to understand.’
Actually if the average person just had a desire to learn the Catholic Faith it would not be hard these days with computers. The only problem is, you need some basic knowledge first, otherwise you could end up reading on an anti-Catholic site which professes to know the Truth about the Catholic Faith! These are death traps. I feel sorry for protestants who have plenty of sites but each site has a different spin on a topic…nothing is consistent. My home base is the Catechism of the Catholic Church and my tv is set to record on EWTN. My favorite Bible is the Douay-Rheims but I have others including protestant ones so I can see how theirs is worded.
You mentioned, ‘I just don't believe that priest being tempted to have consensual s-ex with a woman is a bad thing. All human beings should be able to experience the power and beauty of love.’ The power and beauty of love is not found in consensual s3x as it is in marriage. Anyone who has been married for a number of years knows there is more to the passion of love than just s3x….not that s3x isn’t powerful and wonderful and beautiful but it can only be known in its fullness in marriage..what s3xual love can be….and that coupled with a life-time partner through marriage is where you find real love. A priest can only know lust with a consensual s3x partner. He knows more love and passion for the Church and Jesus Christ if he lives his life as he vowed rather than with a woman…hidden away in the darkness in hopes no one sees or knows…. not a true picture of love at all.
To stay away from Church because you felt like a hypocrite seems strange to me…..you went to Church so people could see you were a good person? How could they know that just because you were in Church? No, I think most people go to Church because they really ‘need it’. I really could not survive without the Holy Eucharist. I don’t think of people in Church as being any better than other people that don’t go to our Church…but I just think that the people that do go to Church feel like I do…that they really need to hear the Word read to them and then hear the homily, receive the Holy Eucharist and take that back home to live on until the next time. All the prayers and the Liturgy of the Mass is just part of what Jesus Christ wants to share with us in a most close relationship with Him. To stay away would be to drift out to sea……I wouldn’t want to live like that…..
You mentioned, ‘If Satan knows he can't win, then why is he fighting? It doesn't make logical sense. I know that I could never defeat Hulk Hogan in a fight, so why would I try?’ Satan has such a huge ego filled with pride that even though he knows who ‘the boss’ is, he still wants to do as much damage as he can because of his hateful rage. There are people with that same kind of passion, darned near, where they will get so furious…so jealous….filled with hate…that they lose their common sense and pursue foolishness out of pure rage. I would guess that satan can convince himself that he is actually going to pull it off and be victorious….
After reading your explanation about why you ‘need’ to use Bible verses….I have to say I think you actually like using them! You are a communicator alright and you could easily make your point without using Bible verses and ‘teach us how it is done’ but you know you might have someone by the neck if you can refute them with their own weapon. Like I said…you could make your whole post Bible verses and I would probably believe in your point…if you didn’t take them out of context. This can be a real problem when people do this. You can say, ‘Yes, that verse is true but you need to look at this verse along with it…’..but they are blind to reading them both as Truth together.
The Last Crusade, is that a movie? Sounds like something I would like.
Keep up with your Bible readings…you never know when a few words can come in handy!
Father Cutie did the right thing after having an affair. He sounds honest and sensible, but media must also report on those majority of Catholic priests who have been keeping the vow. Anyone who could not keep the vow but violated God's law must come forward and get appropriate consequences and join a Bible-preaching Protestant church if they should or want to marry and still serve God.
*******@Justina (Christian): " but media must also report on those majority of Catholic priests who have been keeping the vow. Anyone who could not keep the vow but violated God's law must come forward and get appropriate consequences and join a Bible-preaching Protestant church if they should or want to marry and still serve God."********
Not sure what land of delusion people are living in. The MAJORITY of Catholic priests DO NOT remain celibate. 62% of actual priests admitted to not being celibate. And the nuns? They do much better with only 49% of them shacking up for s-ex. I've seen other studies where these numbers are even higher.
People need to enter the world of reality and stop living in these fantasy worlds where ice cream flows from drinking fountains and lollipops grow on trees.
The link showing the numbers is below (you need to change the two "3"'s into "e"'s):
http://www.webmd.com/s3x/features/s3x-drive-how-do-men-women-compare
Peace.
@The-truth, the majority of Catholic priests and nuns live outside of your country. We are not talking about novices, but only those who taken the vows. Your statistics is nothing. Don't create up things.
*****@Justina (Christian): The-truth, Your statistics is nothing. Don't create up things.*****
Yes Justina, my statistics "is" nothing. LOL Then you have the audacity to say that I "create up things."
I cited WebMD with the statistics. Where are you cites from a credible source? You are the one that "create up things." lol
And that survey OF PRIESTS and OF NUNS was done nearly 20 years ago. Those numbers have only likely gone up and the little blue pill is probably helping too. None of that even begins to talk about sites like Craigslist (no longer formally doing it, but there are plenty of others) where they can "shop" for the prost-itute of their choice as easy as ordering up a pizza.
But thank you for proving my point. Instead of you saying to yourself, "Wow, maybe I was incorrect about that belief," your closed minded self just immediately comes out denying it (with of course nothing substantial to back it up). So typical. It's a prime example of people who can't truly think for themselves.
And BTW... the numbers above (62% and 49%) came AFTER they took their vows of celibacy. 24% of the priests reported having FIVE or more se-xual partners.
So get your head out the clouds and back down to earth and deal with the realities. You would have been the same person two decades INSISTING that the CC didn't have a problem with child abuse too.
So let me recap for you:
Between 33% and 50% of all Catholic priests are ho-mo-se-xual.
The majority of Catholic priests engage in se-xual relations despite their vows of celibacy.
Those are the people that are preaching morality of the Church to the faithful. Classic!
Cheers!
@The-truth, I understand priesthood in Catholic Church is declining in the West, but not elsewhere. You have wrong statistics and wrong conclusions as a whole.
*****@Justina (Christian): You have wrong statistics and wrong conclusions as a whole.********
And yet once AGAIN, I cited my source. Where are your citations from credible sources?
I had already called you out about this in the previous post and yet you STILL come back and do the same thing which is essentially saying that you believe you are correct simply because "you say so."
I like to educate myself about things before I speak and that's why I can always back up what I say. If someone has better evidence than what I have, then I take that into account and if I feel their evidence is better than mine, then I alter my opinion because it does me no good to hold false beliefs. You on the other hand just live in a world of delusion (which is a mental disorder defined by the DSM) where you speak without really knowing what you are talking about. You've done it on here over and over again.
And quite frankly, the only person that you are negatively affecting is yourself.
Peace.
@The-truth: Britannica Book of the Year, Human Development Report, national censuses, United Nations Statistics Division, World Christian Database, World Christian Encyclopedia, and The World Factbook are available to you. Go ahead. Your statistics and conclusions are untrustworthy as you view all people are perverts as yourself.
*********@Justina (Christian): "The-truth: Britannica Book of the Year, Human Development Report, national censuses, United Nations Statistics Division, World Christian Database, World Christian Encyclopedia, and The World Factbook are available to you."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, I have tears coming out of my eyes from laughing so hard!
That's what you are going to come back with? Really?
Have you even ever been to high school? Do you not know what a citation is (hint: I'm not talking about the horse nor the car)? You see, I didn't just say, "WebMD," but instead I presented you with a direct link to the information itself. My site was a neutral, well respected, 3rd party site.
Not only that, but you chose to list something like "national censuses?" How exactly is that going to show if Catholic priests and nuns remained celibate? LOL
Here are the realities: YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, BUT YOU ARE PRETENDING AS IF YOU DO. And how do I know that? I know because of the way you responded and I'm sure the vast majority of people here see it as well. Moreover, if you did have information that could rival what is already on the table, you would have most definitely had posted it already.
So what will you do now?... You'll likely scramble to try and find something credible to rival those numbers I already posted in the hope of saving face. Instead of admitting that you don't know and that the 62% was a new fact for you to consider, you childishly pretend that you know otherwise despite having NOTHING to back it up with. You are doing this because you have created a world of self-delusion that you are living in.
I'd call you a half-wit, but that would be 50% too much.
********Go ahead. Your statistics and conclusions are untrustworthy as you view all people are perverts as yourself.*****
First off, that "sentence" makes no sense which is apropos coming from you.
Secondly, calling others "perverts" is so far away from being Christian that it isn't even funny. You have NO IDEA as to Jesus' message ...which a second grader could ascertain on their own. You can keep calling yourself a Christian all you want, but you are nothing more than a hypocrite who "uses" the Bible to shield yourself as an excuse for your blatant xenophobia and lack of education.
Have a nice day!
Peace!
Well what a shocker... the sound of crickets. LMAO Can't find any evidence that the majority of priests remain celibate huh? But hey, you keep thinking that as it fits right in with the rest of your delusions.
Peace.
I only wish more of the faithful chose to remain celibate...
@Q: God must call, and one must respond to that calling.
I still hear the woosh sound from that flying over someone's head... LOL
@The-truth, God speaks through His word(the Bible) and by the Holy Spirit. You could start reading the Bible humbly asking God to help you understand. Otherwise, you shouldn't talk about Christianity because you have no idea.
@Justina (Christian): God speaks through His word(the Bible) and by the Holy Spirit. You could start reading the Bible humbly asking God to help you understand. Otherwise, you shouldn't talk about Christianity because you have no idea.******
Justina, I went to Catholic School for 12 years. I've been behind the scenes in the church and the rectory more so than 99.9% of Catholics. I'll put my knowledge of the Bible up against yours in my sleep and still have no problem coming out ahead because you are delusional as you have illustrated on thread after thread here.
We (atheists/agnostics) say, "So and So exists because of these logical steps." You say, "So and so exists because a 2K year old book with 900 year old men in it says so (of which you "interpret" to fit your needs)" or simply by saying "So and so exists because I said so."
If you are such a good Christian, what are you doing here? Are there no homeless people you could be helping instead? Are there no hungry in your area?
I watched Secret Millionaire tonight and there were two old ladies that were running a kitchen for the needy. They donated a massive percentage of their life to helping the hungry. Why aren't you doing that? I have no idea if those ladies were Christian or not, but regardless of whether they read the Qur'an, are atheist, etc they are still FAR more Christian than most of the Christians on these boards. To be a Christian means to act like Christ.... not to run around twisting the Bible to justify your lifestyle.
Or on 60 Minutes tonight, they talked about the plethora of families that are homeless due solely to the economy that lost their houses. They are living in cars, without electricity, their children are going to bed hungry, etc. Why aren't you helping them? Do you have no room in your home? Is there no couch for them to sleep on?
But hey, keep blogging because I'm sure God will appreciate you pretending to speak on God's behalf far more than you actually helping those who are truly in need.
Peace.
The-truth. Thanks. You just proved Christians are the only ones who do good to humanity. Telling ignorant atheists some truth is a ministry, too. You atheists alway want to hush up religious people, that's all.
ustina (Christian). " You just proved Christians are the only ones who do good to humanity. Telling ignorant atheists some truth is a ministry, too. You atheists alway want to hush up religious people, that's all." no such thing.. There was no proof of any such as-sertion. We do not want to hush you up, we are just asking for proof of what you are saying, and so far you appear not to offer any. With out evidence or proof, you can say anything and claim it it true...what value is that. Atheists have asked for proof of god, thats it.. beyond that we are the same as you.. we most likely agree with a lot of other things you say out side of the god delusion. Religion does not hold up to scrutiny and it is frustrating to those practi-tioners but if you are interested in the truth, as you claim, then the search should go on and not reject evidence that could be contrary to your beliefs. Remember , most atheists were brought up in religious families but looked for "truth" and realized it was not with religion or a god. Children ,remember, have no say in what they are baptized into. i bet you are the same religion as your folks, and have never looked at other religions with an eye to see if it suits your belief better than what you were indoctrinated with.
@Justina (Christian) "The-truth. Thanks. You just proved Christians are the only ones who do good to humanity."
Justina (Christian). Thanks. You just proved that you have virtually zero basic logic skills and you just proved exactly what I said above in relation to that logic or lack thereof.
EvolvedDNA already gave a great response.
I'll tell you what... go back and look at my responses to Christians and their responses back (including yourself). You'll see that I address their questions over and over and over again without hesitation. You'll see that they (including yourself), can't answer all the questions and instead come up with ways to try to circ-umvent them or just don't answer them at all. And I'm not the only one who falls into this category as there are other atheists/agnostics here that do similarly.
And do you know why that is? It is because we challenged ourselves to answer the hard questions. You and 99% of your Christian cohorts don't have the courage to HONESTLY attempt to address these for one of several reasons. Some of those include:
1) Scared you'll upset God or go to hell for challenging your beliefs.
2) Know that if you answer the questions, you are walking into a logical quagmire from which you will end up looking foolish (and you can't look foolish because you desperately cling to the beliefs you hold regardless if they are delusional or not).
So instead, you try to dodge the questions in order to keep that death grip on your current belief system. It's really quite sad as holding false realities isn't healthy for anyone.
Now, back to a lesson in how logic works. In your warped world, you say that my challenging you to put up or shut up about your religion PROVES that "Christians are the only ones who do good to humanity." This statement is so ridiculously ignorant and naive that it barely deserves commentary.
#1) To even think that Christians are the only ones who do good to humanity is beyond ignorant in the first place.
#2) My challenging you to put up or shut up about your beliefs in NO WAY WHATSOEVER "proves" the ridiculous assertion that you are attempting to make. It is completely illogical.
#3) Two non-believers (Bill Gates and Warren Buffett) have only founded the largest transparently operated private charity in the history of the world. Therefore, simple logic blows away your simpleton claims in items #1 and #2 above as it is therefore clear that non-believers also do good for humanity. In fact, there is a high probability that you are using Bill Gates' soft-ware right now.
Based on your level of reason and naivety, if you didn't say you were married, I would honestly think you were a 12 year old girl sitting behind the computer.
*******Telling ignorant atheists some truth is a ministry, too. You atheists alway want to hush up religious people, that's all.********
LOL... we just want you to think for yourselves which when it comes to religion, yet it is pretty clear you aren't capable of doing that very well. If you were capable, you'd have no problem answering all of our questions. Speaking of questions:
1) Do you or do you not have room on your couch for some homeless people, kids, families to sleep?
2) Do you or do you not have poor and hungry people in your city that you could be helping instead of blogging here?
3) Do you or do you not have some extra blankets and clothes that you don't use/wear that you could be out giving to people living outside in the cold who need them FAR more than you do?
I think we both know the answers to those questions. You can sit there and claim to be a Christian all you want until you are blue in the face, but the realities are that actions speak louder than words and the only thing that's happening here is hypocrisy. If you were a true Christian, you'd be out "doing" instead of being here "talking."
Oh and while we are at it, do you still believe that Santa Claus is real? What about the Easter Bunny? What about the Tooth Fairy? What about the Boogeyman? If so, you've got serious issues. If not, then why not? Why did you stop believing in them? Can you prove they don't exist?
Do you realize how ridiculous you'd sound running around saying that you still believe the Tooth Fairy is real? Yet if the Bible mentioned that Satan's helper was the Boogeyman or that God has an Angel that removes teeth from children, you'd believe in both of those things, without question, simply because a 2K year old book says so.
Those old ladies I was telling you about on Secret Millionaire were busy cooking for and feeding the needy.... they weren't sitting on CNN talking about what a good Christian they are. Yet some people don't have enough courage to look in the mirror and realize the truth.
As for "telling ignorant atheists some truth" as a ministry, there are plenty of homeless atheists that you can "minister" to... get off of your high horse, take some extra food from your fridge, take some extra blankets you have in the garage and go out and give them to the homeless who are shivering in the cold at night while you, "the good Christian," are nice and cozy in your heated home in your nice warm bed.
I'm sure Jesus would have left people hungry and out in the cold too.
Peace.
@EvolvedDNA and The-truth, thanks for writing me lengthy letters. If I find time, I'll read them someday. If you want my replies, keep them short. But The-truth expected me to feed people just because I'm Christian. No one expects atheists to do any good. To say in summary, undeniable facts are: Christians are the ones who accomplished charities and brought justice into civilizations. You guys are mere conscience-bashers.
Justina,
"If I find time, I'll read them someday."
Do you have any idea how dismissive (and rude) that statement is? You really do not want to be educated if you won't take the time to read those excellent posts. The Truth, in particular, spent a great deal of time and effort trying to impart some reason and wisdom to you.
EvolvedDNA and The Truth: Try to not be too insulted by her slap in the face. Consider the source... and know that you have perhaps (and most likely) touched others very effectively.
*****@Justina (Christian): EvolvedDNA and The-truth, thanks for writing me lengthy letters. If I find time, I'll read them someday. If you want my replies, keep them short.*****
I should have realized that anything longer than a fortune cookie slip was an abundance for you to read. WIth regard to your replies, it should be YOU that wants to reply because YOU should want to challenge your beliefs. Yet it is pretty clear that your thought process is far too one dimensional to do so with any sort of effectiveness.
*****But The-truth expected me to feed people just because I'm Christian. No one expects atheists to do any good.*******
LOL... what part of we are not on the same playing field are you incapable of comprehending? I'll type s-l-o-w-l-y so perhaps you can understand:
You claim to be a Christian. Being a Christian means being a follower of Christ. Being a follower of Christ means that you should try to emulate him.
Others of us are not claiming to be Christian. Not being a Christian means not necessarily being a follower of Christ. Not being a follower of Christ means that someone does not necessarily need to try and emulate him.
Wow... what a difficult concept to understand.
The facts are that YOU self-impose that label upon yourself. When I had that label on me, I realized that I was just being a hypocrite by having it. Thus, I dropped the ti-tle as there was no need for me to be a hypocrite. The difference is that your insecurity doesn't allow you that same level of self-honesty.
So it is a different set of rules here. We can be mean to people (though not necessarily the right thing to do) all we want. You on the other hand cannot because YOU claim the ti-tle of Christian. We don't have to feed the hungry and shelter the homeless because we aren't claiming to be followers of Christ. You on the other hand have that obligation to do so. It is really quite a pity that you can't even grasp this most basic of concepts.
What you are doing is akin to saying that you are president of the Beach Boys Fan Club (since they sing God Only Knows, they get to play the role of Christians) and then you say you hate the Beatles (who will represent atheists since Lennon said they were more popular than Jesus). Thus, you love the Beach Boys and hate the Beatles.... yet then you run around all day playing Hey Jude, Come Together, Here Comes the Sun, etc, etc, etc.
The moral of the story: You can CLAIM to be whatever you want, but just because you claim it doesn't make it so. I claim to be 24 feet tall, but that doesn't make it true no matter how much I try to trick myself into believing it. So you can run around claiming you are a Christian all you want, but when you are leaving YOUR OWN SAVIOR hungry, cold and homeless, I'll say that you are a hypocrite.
And you know what, I'll quote YOUR BIBLE and YOUR SAVIOR to prove it. From Matthew 25:
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“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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So what part of that are you unable to understand? Do the words of YOUR SAVIOR not matter? Are you so daft that you pretend to worship this man to get into Heaven and yet then turn around and ignore what he says and ignore how to get into Heaven? I guess so.
*******To say in summary, undeniable facts are: Christians are the ones who accomplished charities and brought justice into civilizations.*******
LOL... how much Kool Aid do you drink per day? You have no idea of what you are talking about. Ever heard of Socrates and Plato? Oh no... sorry I forgot... you can't read things longer than a comic book.... so philosophy is way out of the question. Ever heard of Hammurabi? The facts are that laws and justice existed LONG before Jesus ever set foot on the Earth. The same goes for people offering up charity toward others.
In any event, when your day comes to face Jesus and he asks why you left him thirsty, hungry, unclothed, unsheltered, etc... I'd love to see the look on your face. You can't lie to him now and say you weren't aware because I am putting you on notice and since God is omniscient, he knows that I am doing this on his behalf.
Good luck with trying to "justify" you way out of that one. I hope you are left handed as perhaps it will make the transition to the left a tiny bit easier for you.
Peace!
*****@Magic: Justina, Do you have any idea how dismissive (and rude) that statement is? You really do not want to be educated if you won't take the time to read those excellent posts. The Truth, in particular, spent a great deal of time and effort trying to impart some reason and wisdom to you.******
🙂 Thanks for astute observation Magic. People like Justina only want to hear opinions that are similar to their own because those reinforce her current belief schema. She is too afraid and/or weak to honestly challenge her beliefs. She might say she challenges them, but it is merely a facade as actions speak louder than words and she's done this time and time and time again on here. She uses the Bible to justify whatever she wants to and ignores the parts she doesn't like (such as killing people, selling everything she owns, helping the needy as described above, etc).
*******EvolvedDNA and The Truth: Try to not be too insulted by her slap in the face. Consider the source... and know that you have perhaps (and most likely) touched others very effectively.*******
Thanks and likewise to you Magic. It honestly makes no difference if people listen to me or not. The loss or gain of reading my thoughts lies with the reader. I always welcome opposing views in return as that is the way to better educate one's self.
Cheers bud!
8)
Guys, I don't waste my time. Be a CNN news writer in the religion section if you want me to read your whole trash. Keep your letter much shorter. Making points in short sentences are the mature and intelligent thing. I don't even have enough time to read books written by authentic scholars. You should be reading the Bible instead of writing stuff you don't understand.
*******@Justina (Christian): Guys, I don't waste my time. Be a CNN news writer in the religion section if you want me to read your whole trash.*******
LOL... what a cop out. You had no problem talking to us before, but now that you are cornered, you tuck tail and run like a coward. Classic. And instead of you realizing that you have an issue with your belief schema, you'll "conveniently" get a minor case of amnesia so you can pretend it never happened. Sad.
The fact that you came back and couldn't even apologize for your last rude post speaks volumes as to your level of "Christianity." No need for an apology though as I don't want one.
*****Keep your letter much shorter. Making points in short sentences are the mature and intelligent thing. I don't even have enough time to read books written by authentic scholars.**********
Wow... 1-2 minutes of reading is a mental strain on you? Well, I guess that explains a lot.
*******You should be reading the Bible instead of writing stuff you don't understand*********
The fact that you say we don't understand when you are sitting with egg on your face below regarding the celibate percentages is yet more delusion on your part. It is CLEARLY you that doesn't understand.
Moreover, you shouldn't be reading the Bible, you should be out DOING. You know... that point I made above that you were too much of a fraidy-cat to address because you know you'll look like a foolish hypocrite if you try to do so.
What's the matter Colonel Sanders... Chicken?
Seriously, I'm dying to see how you are going to attempt to spin Jesus' words to justify not going out and feeding the hungry, giving shelter to the homeless, etc, etc, etc.
Peace.
Nothing is more beautiful in this world than celibacy for the sake of the Lord Jesus. They live in a different universe from the rest of us. It's just it's not for everyone however one loves Jesus. I see it, both from the Bible and from the church history, celibacy of God's servants can continue as the best system. But if the Catholic Church allows marriage for all her dedicated, I'll be happy because marriage is God's wonderful gift. For the present, if priests/monks and nuns want to marry, they must leave the Catholic Church and join Protestant. No disobedience or revolt against the good and best thing the Catholic Church has. All Catholics must read the Bible, definitely.
@ christy Christian do you bob your baloney or heat the muffin?
@ David Johnson. thanks for the accurate reply
Hiya Truth.. Great post, great answers and comments! 🙂
I would like to ask CatholicMom about something she said?
She says:
The Ten Commandments are still valid. Many say ‘once saved always saved’ and so the Ten Commandments don’t matter, but that is a man-made falsehood.
Geri>>> Where did you come up with this statement? Once saved always saved, is exactly what Jesus taught! The 10 commandments do matter, and if one i saved, surely they want to follow hose commandments.
Are you saying then, that once saved always saved, is not true? That it is manmade?
For if you are, you are wrong,
1 John 5:13:
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life."
Romans 8:14 those who are being led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (he will never leave us)
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand
Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
SALVATION is for always. It is scriptural, Jesus said so. Once saved always saved, is not manmade, but Christ made. Anything else is a lie.
We still keep the Commandments. However, we are justified and cleansed of sin, by the blood of Jesus. The Holy Spirit leads and guides us. We are written (our names) in the Lambs Book of Life, once we are saved..
Geri,
Why do you still keep the Ten Commandments as you say you do? Are you sure you do? What if you don’t? And really, if you are saved how do you know you remain so? Isn’t it true that you know you should keep the Ten Commandments because they were never abolished? Isn’t it true, that you can lose your salvation?
All the verses you provided …..my comments follow each….
***1 John 5:13: "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life."
This is easy to understand in light of …..Matthew 7:21 ‘Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ So yes, believe in the name of the Son of God but do the will of the Father also.
***Romans 8:14 those who are being led by the Spirit of God are the children of God
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Yes, if we are children of God we will OBEY lovingly…and do the Father’s will as that is why we were created! Ephesians 2:8-10 ‘ For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; Not of works, that no man may glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.’
***John 10:27-28 ‘My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand. That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all: and no one can sna-tch them out of the hand of my Father. I and the Father are one.’
Again, no man can pluck you from the hand of God but you can walk away on your own…Matthew 19:16-17 ‘And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ Do you see how you can walk away on your own? Just ignore the Commandments.
***Ephesians 4:30 ‘And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption’
Easy to understand that you must grieve not the Holy Spirit of God otherwise what could happen? Rom 11:22, "See, then, the goodness and the severity of GOD: His severity towards those who have fallen, but the goodness of GOD towards you if you abide in His goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off." How do you abide in His Goodness? OBEY…
***1 Peter 1:5 ‘are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time’. (he will never leave us)
If you read the whole chapter you see that we are ‘ being saved as OBEDIENT children living in the HOPE which is a gift from God and we must persevere to the end in this hope.
***29 ‘My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand’
Once again…no man may pluck you out of the Father’s hand but you can wander away on your own….how?....perhaps by not adhering to the Commandments fully? It is becoming more clear, right?
***Romans 8:35 ‘Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
***38 ‘For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
***39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Have the elect been named here on earth so that we can say that we know the secrets of God’s elect and have seen our name in the Book of Life? Explain then: Ex 32:33: "The Lord answered, 'Him only who has sinned against Me will I strike out of My book”.
Can we presume that we are amongst the elect if it is possible for us to, of our own free will, deviate from obedience? We can have a lively as-surance in our hope of justification and salvation but we should not pretend to an absolute as-surance. Why are we to be judged upon our death if we are already saying that we judge ourselves saved and there is no chance of being condemned? Are there two lanes going through the pearly gates….one lane for those to be judged and one for those who will not be judged?
Are we not to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? [Phil. 2:12]
"For it is not the man who commends himself that is accepted, but the man whom the Lord commends."2Corinthians 10:18
Jesus said that we are to hear His Word and obey. He was SENT by the Father with Authority…this is how He sent out the Apostles, with His authority. We who hear the Word must hear it from someone who has been Sent. Those who send themselves or use private interpretation of the Bible go against what the Bible says we should do.
"Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you? Every one who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep, and laid the foundation upon rock; and when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But he who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation; against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great."
Luke 6:46-49
Maybe you are not hearing the Word by someone Sent....
'Where did I hear that ‘once saved, always saved’ was a man-made idea?'; it is no secret....
It was Martin Luther who "invented" the false doctrine of "Once saved, always saved", when in Romans 3:28 he added the word "alone" to his German translation of Holy Scripture. That verse then read, "...a man is justified by faith alone". This action on his part was an embarras-sment to the other reformers, and so you will not find that little word "alone" in Romans 3:28 in the King James or any other Protestant Bible except for Luther's. Here is one quote from Martin Luther regarding "Once saved always saved", "Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly... No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."
Martin Luther, letter to Melanchthon, August 1, 1521
Man will lead you down the wrong path.
Matthew 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
******@Geri: Hiya Truth.. Great post, great answers and comments!******
Hiya Geri! Thanks and likewise!
With regard to the 10 Commandments, let's not forget about the other 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk
1st Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians chapter 7
[32] But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. [33] But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. [34] And the unmarried woman and the virgin thinketh on the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she that is married thinketh on the things of the world, how she may please her husband. [35] And this I speak for your profit: not to cast a snare upon you; but for that which is decent, and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord, without impediment.
Hi Mom,
Actually Catholic priests used to be married. So everything you are quoting was hogwash to them for centuries. As usual, they just "make up" the rules as they go along.
Regarding Jesus himself, here's something I wrote elsewhere for your reading pleasure:
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Mary vs Mary Magdalene:
I wanted to discuss this whole "Virgin" concept that I was indoctrinated with as a child. This whole line of insisting Mary to be a virgin makes little sense. Why? Here are just a few reasons:
#1) The misrepresentation of "betulah" (virgin) vs "almah" (young woman) vs the Greek "parthenos."
#2) That the birth talked about in Isaiah (from which Matthew likely "borrowed" via mistranslation of Hebrew/Greek) is likely unrelated to Jesus and fulfilled hundreds of years before Jesus ever walked on the Earth.
#3) Even if it were a virgin birth, that hardly makes it a miracle since it is possible without a miracle via scientific understanding (though it is indeed extremely rare).
And so on and so forth.
If God wanted to demonstrate something truly miraculous for Jesus' birth, he could have had him spontaneously appear as a baby or have doves carry him down from Heaven, etc, etc, etc.
Moreover, Jesus had 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters. The CC teaches that Mary remained a virgin her whole life. How ridiculous is this? If in fact she did have a virgin birth of Jesus, what difference does it make if she had other kids after the fact? Moreover, it is pretty interesting that Jesus' brothers didn't follow him around everywhere... I know that if my brother were the Son of God, I'd always be at his side every second of the day. Yet apparently, they didn't deem it to be of uber importance.
The need to keep Mary as a Virgin has many uses for the CC... one of them being that they don't like to admit they were incorrect about anything (and when they do, it takes them forever to do it) and secondly because it is just another example of se-xual repression.
_
If you want to pray to a "Mary," why not Mary Magdalene? I'm not sure why people are so unwilling to accept the very high possibility that Mary Magdalene could have been Jesus' wife. And no, the Da Vinci Code has nothing to do with it.
A sampling of factual information:
First, it would have been accepted custom at the time that someone like Jesus in his age bracket would be married.
Mary, Jesus' mother, is mentioned 19 times in the Bible. MaryM is mentioned 14 times.
MaryM is mentioned in 8 passages with other women (including Jesus' mother), and in each instance except for one (which happened to be specifically about Mary Jesus' mother), MaryM is mentioned first (even above Jesus' own mother).
A female "friend" would not be more important than a mother (ESPECIALLY not the version of Mary that Catholics worship). During this time, the most important people were always listed first sequentially. Thus, if we were talking about "Joe, Tom, Fred and the Pope," the listing would start out with the Pope being listed first sequentially.
MaryM is mentioned at the foot of cross, the last one to leave the tomb, in charge of preparing the body, the first to see the resurrected Christ and the first one to tell of it. Where was Jesus' own mother in all of this? Obviously, MaryM played a much bigger role than she is given credit for. Sounds sort of like something that a wife would do huh?
Finally, when you account for the fact that his mother would have been in Jesus' life more than twice that of MaryM, then MaryM is mentioned far more times by percentage. If Jesus' Mother was indeed SO important, surely she would have been mentioned FAR more times in the Bible, but alas she was not.
The entire reason why the CC preaches that Mary was conceived without original sin was because when they came up with their original concept of Jesus' birth, they thought that the male was totally responsible for the birth. When science (shocker) found out that both men and women are responsible, then that would have meant that Jesus was born from a woman with original sin, so they had to "audible" (as they absolutely love to make the rules up as they go along) and say that Mary was born without sin.
The CC declared this as a required belief back in the 1850's... so people are still believing in something that is over 150 years old. Ironically, that would have been the same 1850's when Darwin published On the Origin of Species. It "only" took them until Pope John Paul II to accept human evolution. They live in a time capsule of anti-reality.
And why pray to people like Mary and the Saints? If God created the entire universe, does anyone really think that he needs "administrative assistants" to handle all of the incoming prayer requests? Surely he can just handle them himself.
The Gospel writers clearly had no idea of Jesus' birth as they conflict on major events from his birth all the way to his death.
Matthew says Jesus was born when Herod was King of Judea. Luke says Jesus was born when Cyrenius was Governor of Syria. Thus, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR JESUS TO HAVE BEEN BORN during the administration of these two rulers because Herod died in the year 4 B.C. and Cyrenius (aka Quirinius in Roman history) did not become Governor of Syria until 10 years later. Herod and Cyrenius are interrupted by the entire reign of Archelaus, Herod's son. Between Matthew & Luke (the only 2 who thought Jesus' birth was important enough to actually write about), there is a clear contradiction of at least ten years, as to the time of Christ's birth. They were absolutely clueless.
Fast forwarding to his death, 3 of the 4 Gospel writers couldn't agree on Jesus' final words. Let me ask: If you were standing before the Son of God and watched him die, don't you think you'd remember his tiny handful of last words verbatim? I know I would.
So anyway, was Mary a virgin? Who knows? Does it really matter? Not really. Would you think any less of Jesus if he was born to a "regular" mother or if he was indeed married? What difference does it make? Does it change his teachings or his good works? Nope, not at all. Perhaps some food for thought.
Peace to you!
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The Truth,
It doesn’t matter what the Church used to do about celibacy….it is not dogma or doctrine, but a discipline. Today the Church realizes celibacy is best for a Priest. You need to recall that the Holy Spirit was promised to the Apostles and their successors, guarding and guiding the Catholic Church into remembering all that Jesus Christ had told them [the Tradition of the Church] and bringing them into the fullness of Truth as we can bear it. Knowing this promise is sufficient for me to hold fast to the Church that Jesus Christ founded. You call it ‘making up the rules as they go along’ and I call it the Promise of Guiding and Guarding. The Church is perfect without wrinkle, stain, or any such thing….and is the pillar and foundation of the Truth. People who are sinners need the Church….that is why Jesus Christ founded it…for US.
We all are brothers and sisters of Jesus, just not blood brothers and sisters.
Which, BTW, makes Mary our Mother, too! Now, if you are a Bible Believer, you would know that we should honor our mother and father. Surely Jesus did. Can we go wrong by emulating him? Of course not! The Bible says that all nations will call Mary blessed and yet how many obey this message? The Bible tells us that Mary is ‘full of grace’. Full means ‘no room for sin.’ Mary is the flesh tabernacle [vessel] which gives us Jesus. [He could not enter a tainted vessel….just as we cannot enter Heaven tainted.] This is why God saved Mary from Original Sin. [this is one of the ‘fullness of Truth’ that the Holy Spirit promised.]
Mary brought us Jesus and she brings us to Jesus. Mary said that God had done great things for her, a lowly handmaiden…. the ones who humble themselves are exalted by God, not the self-righteous. Mary tells us that her soul magnifies the Lord….what does that mean? She makes our Lord more visible to us!
Since Bible Believes know that the Church is the Body of Christ, we can understand how Mary is the Mother of the Church!
There is much more to read and understand here: http://www.saint-mike.org/library/apologetics/mary.html
There are more questions that you presented but my eyes are getting heavy and I have a big day tomorrow at Church making jelly for our up-coming sale. I will try to get to more of them tomorrow evening….just let me leave you, my brother/sister, with this,.... we honor Mary and venerate the Saints because they are part of our holy family. They could pray for us while they were living here on earth just as we can pray for each other on our journey. Now that they are closer to God than we are, their prayers are pure and perfect and they can offer them to Jesus Christ just as always because we are still all members of the Body of Christ. Nothing can change that except mortal sin. Our God is a God of the living, not the dead. Those who are dead are the ones wallowing in their sin. As the Bible tells us…we are as branches of the vine [Jesus Christ], if we produce no fruit or bad fruit, we will be cut off from the vine by Our Father in Heaven, gathered up and tossed in the fire.
Good Night!
CatholicMom,
What original sin? There were no Adam and Eve and therefore there was no original sin and therefore we are all born immaculate!!!
And there was no Easter so your faith as noted by "saint" Paul is useless!!!
CM.. you told me on another thread you had no time for fairy tales..and here you are again repeating them.. Real life is so much better than your fantasy .. I wish you could understand the world .... and believe in yourself with out the crutch of jesus.. in fact I feel so strongly about it I will not pray for you. We are here to save you... reach out...
******@CatholicMom... It doesn’t matter what the Church used to do about celibacy….it is not dogma or doctrine, but a discipline. Today the Church realizes celibacy is best for a Priest.******
Pretty clearly, celibacy is NOT best for a priest as evidenced above.
Let me ask you... if you started your own company, would you have better employees if you accepted only left handed people as potential employees or people who write with either hand? The answer is the latter because your pool of viable candidates goes through the roof. The same is true with celibate vs non-celibate candidates.
Moreover, how is a celibate priest REALLY supposed to counsel people who are going to be married better than someone who is already married themselves?
Reality is that the CC would be FAR better off to allow priests to be married. Women could then have pastor's wives to confide in, they'd be able to weed bad priests out much easier due to the higher number of applicants, etc, etc, etc. They simply don't want to be responsible for the extra costs of allowing priests to be married because the thing that the CC loves the most is money.
******it. Knowing this promise is sufficient for me to hold fast to the Church that Jesus Christ founded. ********
Do you honestly think Jesus would want to be associated with the CC today? He would be appalled.
*********You call it ‘making up the rules as they go along’ and I call it the Promise of Guiding and Guarding.************
They do make up the rules as they go along. As I told you earlier, important Cardinals in the Church have even said that 3/4 of the CC comes from pagan origins.
**********The Church is perfect without wrinkle, stain, or any such thing….*********
You keep saying this. This is actually delusional and I'm not saying that to be mean, but rather to help you see reality. They are the anti-thesis of "perfect."
Here's basic logic 101 for your benefit:
The CC has abused children. I think we both agree.
The CC has tried to cover up this abuse. I think we both agree.
You say the CC is perfect. I think we both agree that you say that.
THEREFORE, logic dictates (according to the above) that abusing children and covering it up is "perfect."
Can you see how ridiculously illogical these beliefs are? If this had nothing to do with religion, you'd agree 100% without question, yet when religion gets thrown into the picture, reality goes out the window and delusion seeps in and is considered completely normal (when in fact it is not).
********We all are brothers and sisters of Jesus, just not blood brothers and sisters.*********
So where were Jesus' blood brothers and sisters in the Bible? Why weren't they following him around and sticking to him like velcro? If your blood brother was the son of God, wouldn't you follow him around? I know I would.
********Which, BTW, makes Mary our Mother, too! Now, if you are a Bible Believer, you would know that we should honor our mother and father.*********
Actually, Jesus (who is supposedly without sin) sins in the Bible because he takes off without telling Mary nor Joseph where he was going and they went frantically looking for him for DAYS. Not exactly honoring mom and dad now is it? There were a handful of other sins that Jesus committed as well.
So logic dictates one of the following is true:
1) Jesus sinned.
2) The Ten Commandments don't matter.
So which is it? It can't be both for a rational person.
****Surely Jesus did. Can we go wrong by emulating him? Of course not!********
Then why are you following the CC? This is the anti-thesis of emulating Jesus.
******There are more questions that you presented but my eyes are getting heavy and I have a big day tomorrow at Church making jelly for our up-coming sale.*****
Good luck with your bake sale. Are you sending free samples to everyone on this thread? lol
****Good Night!****
Likewise. Peace!
🙂
Truth,
Going beyond the need for priests et al:
Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity by the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" will converge these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.
Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.
The Truth,
A married priest or a celibate priest….who could better counsel a couple about to be married? Clearly a celibate priest…with his education he is able to properly counsel couples on human behavior before and after marriage; he also knows what the Church teaches about the vocation of the Sacrament of marriage through his extensive education… As a married man a priest would be biased with personal experiences….he may be hampered in his own education due to caring for his wife and family…tired due to trying to maintain two vocations. Clearly a celibate priest knows best; you know, ‘Father knows best’! [Pastor’s wives have enough of their own problems... she wouldn’t have time to listen to every other woman’s problems… especially if she wouldn’t dare release some of her own tensions concerning her own marital problems for which she may need counseling herself concerning her own husband!]
Speaking about money, as you bring it up…those who worship money as their god would always think of all the pros and cons on how the matter would affect their MONEY! The Catholic Charities is one of the largest organizations concerned with the welfare of people regardless of race, creed, religion, or s3xual orientation. Ask people who receive services…they know.
Yes, Jesus Christ is as-sociated with His Church! He promised to never leave Her! He is good on His promises! It does not matter how many pagan ideas were incorporated into the Catholic Church….such as using one of their days to celebrate an event that is Catholic…to help incorporate them into the Church, is a most wise move to help pull them out of their paganism and bring them to Christ. God gave us brains…use those brains to help other people come to know Christ….it is all good! The Holy Spirit is watching…guiding and guarding!
The Church is perfect though people in Her are sinners. Sinners do not taint the Church…they taint their own souls and are in need of the Church’s Sacraments to get themselves ‘untainted’. Only a perfect Church can do this, and, of course, it would have to be the One that Jesus Christ founded…not one founded by a sinner! Again the brain comes in handy to figure this out.
Once again, the only ones at the foot of the cross when Jesus was crucified were His Mother, Mary, and Saint John. If Mary had any other children He would not have told John ‘behold your Mother’ because she would have gone to live with her other children had she had any, but she didn’t. Jesus did not have any blood brothers and sisters for Mary to go live with. Everyone else there at the crucifixion was afraid to even admit that they knew Jesus….so much like people today.
Jesus’ life began as close to normal as it could be…while still being of a divine nature along with His human nature. You say that Jesus had siblings…in other words you are saying… God has siblings!….see how silly that statement is?! but then you could say that if you aren’t Christian, but any Christian who admits that Jesus is God knows that God does not have siblings…it is that simple, really! If they wish to insist that Jesus had siblings then maybe they do not believe that Jesus is God but then can they say they are Christian?…not hardly. I think this saying that Jesus had siblings is just a way of trying to demean Mary…but you can see how it becomes quick crazy when all these as-sertions of man-made ideas become someone’s Truth. It is all due to private interpretation of the Bible of which the Bible does not validate private interpretation. Besides demeaning Mary, many wish to demean Christianity and those who believe in the ‘whole package’…Tradition, Bible, and the Magisterium.
This will help you see Mary and her connection as the bearer of God to us and as God’s most perfect creature:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhum#p/a/f/2/MN8HvBKFylo
Jesus honored his mother and father and never failed at being a normal child. At 12 years old Jesus was just as human as can be….a child thinks like a child….and does like a child. Jesus was like us in all ways except sin….thinking and being like a child is NOT a sin.
The Ten Commandments are still valid. Many say ‘once saved always saved’ and so the Ten Commandments don’t matter, but that is a man-made falsehood.
I hope I covered all that was mentioned in your posts.
BTW, we made 43 jars of Jalapeño Jelly today at the Center. We would love to give everyone a sample so on the day of the sale stop by for a taste and tell us what you think! The sale will be noted in the local papers…hope to see you there…come early as we almost always run short of just what you are looking for…
*****@CatholicMom: A married priest or a celibate priest….who could better counsel a couple about to be married? Clearly a celibate priest…with his education he is able to properly counsel couples on human behavior before and after marriage.....]*********
Who would you rather have teach you how to scuba dive? Someone who has actually scuba dived for many years or someone who has never done it before and just read about it in a book and heard about it from friends? I know which one I'd want.
Once again, atheists/agnostics have lower rates of divorce than Christians which goes to show that something in the Church isn't right.
*******Speaking about money, as you bring it up…those who worship money as their god would always think of all the pros and cons on how the matter would affect their MONEY! The Catholic Charities is one of the largest organizations concerned with the welfare of people regardless of race, creed, religion, or s3xual orientation. Ask people who receive services…they know.*********
And how many people could that $1M wooden chair for the bishop of Los Angeles have fed? Or in the Bay Area, they are currently constructing a new cathedral in Oakland. This is DESPITE having cathedrals in San Francisco and San Jose which are both less than a 30 minute drive away. They are spending 1/5-1/4 of a BILLION dollars to build it. First off, they don't need another cathedral here. Secondly, the cost is absurd.
While yes, they do give money to charity, it is only a tiny fraction of what they take in. I used to work at my rectory for years. The money for the poor ran out EVERY SINGLE WEEK. And probably a majority of the time ran out early in the week. And what did the Church do to families who showed up at the door with mothers who literally had starving babies because they couldn't afford food? Yep, they turned them away with nothing. All of this despite there being tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, in the vault from the week's collection in Church.
Do even know where your money goes? Here's an excerpt of a letter I sent to my own parents a few years back:
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And look at Hurricane Katrina… where is the Vatican stepping up and shelling out their millions to help? Instead the Pope sent an official envoy from the Vatican’s charity Cor Unum. That was nice of him. Last year, Cor Unum helped the entire world by donating a grand total of… are you ready… $1.5 Million Euros. Wow… I hope that doesn’t break them. The Catholic Church is worth probably in the trillions of dollars. Yet, Wal Mart has already donated $17 million to the Katrina victims and the owners of Wal Mart have donated another $15 million on top of that for a total of $32 million. So Wal Mart can give more money than the Vatican can??? Come on… John Grisham, the novelist (he’s a novelist for crying out loud), personally donated $5 Million to the relief fund. How can Grisham donate over three times the amount of money that the Vatican’s Cor Unum donated all around the world all last year?
And speaking of Vatican money, did you know this?
“Despite its claims otherwise, the Vatican Bank is not a branch of the State of Vatican City. It exists as an enti-ty unto itself without corporate or ecclesiastical ties to any other agency within the Holy See. It is under the direct supervision of the pope. He is the one and only stockholder. He owns it and he controls it.
Unlike ANY other financial inst-itution, the Vatican Bank is audited by neither internal nor outside agencies. Its worth remains a matter of conjecture, even for members of the College of Cardinals. There is not a scrap of its papers among all of the other bureaucracies of the Roman Church – not even ecclesiastical financial agencies – that attests to its assets or accounts. In 1996 Cardinal Edmund Szoka, the internal auditor of the Holy See, told investigators that he has no authority over the Vatican Bank and has no knowledge of its operations.”
On Wall Street, the Vatican owns stocks for such companies as Gulf Oil, Shell, GM, IBM, Bethlehem Steel, etc that 10 years ago were already valued at over a Billion dollars. (I do find it amusing that they’d own Bethlehem Steel.) LOL The Wall Street Journal said that the Vatican would often buy and sell gold in lots valued in the millions in single transactions. They have accu-mulated billions and billions of dollars worth of gold that is being held at the US Federal Reserve Bank along with Banks in England and Switzerland. The Boston archdiocese (by itself) lists it assets at $650 Million and its total net worth at $575 million.
The Catholic Church just in America alone is more wealthy than the 5 largest corporations in America COMBINED!!!! Yet, they can’t be donating huge sums of money to help the needy??? I’m sure Jesus would have kept that money and not shared it.
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******Yes, Jesus Christ is as-sociated with His Church! He promised to never leave Her! He is good on His promises! It does not matter how many pagan ideas were incorporated into the Catholic Church….such as using one of their days to celebrate an event that is Catholic…to help incorporate them into the Church, is a most wise move to help pull them out of their paganism and bring them to Christ. God gave us brains…use those brains to help other people come to know Christ….it is all good! The Holy Spirit is watching…guiding and guarding!*****
He is associated with it by proxy, but likely is appalled by it. And the number of pagan items does matter since people are following the rules of men, not Jesus. The 10 Commandments say not to have no other gods.
*****The Church is perfect though people in Her are sinners. Sinners do not taint the Church…they taint their own souls and are in need of the Church’s Sacraments to get themselves ‘untainted’. Only a perfect Church can do this, and, of course, it would have to be the One that Jesus Christ founded…not one founded by a sinner! Again the brain comes in handy to figure this out.******
You do realize this is brainwashing by the Church don't you? If this was ANYTHING else, you'd say otherwise. To say the Catholic Church is perfect is to say that Charles Manson is perfect.
******Once again, the only ones at the foot of the cross when Jesus was crucified were His Mother, Mary, and Saint John. If Mary had any other children He would not have told John ‘behold your Mother’ because she would have gone to live with her other children had she had any, but she didn’t. Jesus did not have any blood brothers and sisters for Mary to go live with. Everyone else there at the crucifixion was afraid to even admit that they knew Jesus….so much like people today.*********
IT IS IN THE BIBLE! lol You don't realize this because the CC just cherry picks the parts out that they want to indoctrinate people with. The Bible specifically lists out his brothers by name.
From Matthew 13: "When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us?"
And in Matthew 27: (regarding Jesus' death) "Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons." (Notice that Mary Magdalene was listed sequentially first again.)
******Jesus’ life began as close to normal as it could be…while still being of a divine nature along with His human nature. You say that Jesus had siblings…in other words you are saying… God has siblings!….see how silly that statement is?!*******
See above... they were listed by name. If it was everyone, they wouldn't have listed off 4 names.
*****but then you could say that if you aren’t Christian, but any Christian who admits that Jesus is God knows that God does not have siblings…it is that simple, really! If they wish to insist that Jesus had siblings then maybe they do not believe that Jesus is God but then can they say they are Christian?…not hardly.******
I'm merely reporting what the Bible (the book that Christians see as the word of God) says. I cited the passages above.
*****I think this saying that Jesus had siblings is just a way of trying to demean Mary…but you can see how it becomes quick crazy when all these as-sertions of man-made ideas become someone’s Truth.*******
It's not demeaning Mary. If she had other kids, so what? She was still the mother of Jesus. This is the Church "spinning" scripture again to keep their story in line instead of just being straightforward about it. If you don't believe they aren't being straightforward about it, ask yourself how many times in Church you heard the names of his 4 brothers. They could educate people about it and then let them decide, but they don't. This is a form of brainwashing.
Also notice, that earlier you say that pagan things don't matter and now you have reversed yourself and man made ideas are not good. This is cherry picking.
*****This will help you see Mary and her connection as the bearer of God to us and as God’s most perfect creature:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhum#p/a/f/2/MN8HvBKFylo*******
This is precisely why Pastor's wives would be handy for Catholics. Women LOVE Mary because they relate to her. The realities (which can be independently verified by yourself) are that she is hardly mentioned in the Bible. In fact, only two of the Gospel writers even bothered to talk about Jesus' birth (and they contradicted each other). Mary has also become a cash cow for the Church with the faithful wanting to pour money in the basket on her behalf. And finally, Mary Magdalene was of greater importance based on sequential listing and based on percentage. Once again, don't shoot the messenger... just reporting what the Bible says.
******Jesus honored his mother and father and never failed at being a normal child. At 12 years old Jesus was just as human as can be….a child thinks like a child….and does like a child. Jesus was like us in all ways except sin….thinking and being like a child is NOT a sin.*********
Let's put this in perspective. If your 12 year old kids took off for days and didn't tell you, then you'd be fine with it? That would be an example of them honoring you? I think we both know the reality here. The difference is that one of us is choosing to accept reality and the other is choosing to let the Church dictate your thoughts despite them not being logical.
******The Ten Commandments are still valid. Many say ‘once saved always saved’ and so the Ten Commandments don’t matter, but that is a man-made falsehood.******
So do you realize what you've done here? Logic dictated that only one could be true. This is REALITY. Yet you have tried your best to make both true which is not reality. It is illogical and makes no rational sense. It makes no difference to me as it isn't hurting me in the least... it is just unhealthy to hold false realities.
******I hope I covered all that was mentioned in your posts.*******
I appreciate the valliant attempts. Go back and look at the logic or lack thereof. It can only benefit you. I'm not even saying to stop believing in Jesus, Mary, etc. I'm merely saying that if you are going to believe, you might as well believe in logical realities of the Bible (which are written in ink for you to see for yourself) rather than believe in delusional and illogical items that are forced on you by the CC through years of repet-itiveness.
*****BTW, we made 43 jars of Jalapeño Jelly today at the Center. We would love to give everyone a sample so on the day of the sale stop by for a taste and tell us what you think! The sale will be noted in the local papers…hope to see you there…come early as we almost always run short of just what you are looking for…*******
LOL... Congrats.... I hope you raise some good money and put it to GOOD use. I'll guarantee that if you spend the money on the needy rather than the CC, it will help far more people.
Peace!
celibacy is not of God.
Yes, it is. The most beautiful lives of Apostles of Jesus and Catholic saints and the beautiful parts of Catholic tradition for 2,000 years proved it.
Justina(Christian) what is the proof you have ...and what evidence was presented? What are the non beautiful parts of the catholic tradition.. would that be the priest thingy?
EvolvedDNA, read or watch on Catholic sants such as John of the Cross. There have been many of people like him in Catholic Church throughout history. Serving God married is a beautiful thing; celibacy has something special because it is hard calling and the godly sacrifice is greater in a way.
With a name like "Cutie," is it any wonder that celibacy is impossible?
celibacy is totally not natural. s-exual release is a basic need like water food air sleep.
S$x is only mandatory when the flesh urges take over the brain aka carnal level of thinking. Jesus' teachings are spiritual, to teach man (meaning woman too) how to rid themselves of carnal (flesh urges) level of thinking. Carnal thinking is what causes sin. It is the flesh urges that take over the brain. Flesh urges are what causes a person to get trapped into carnal thinking.
Celibacy is not natural. The life cycle is: Birth – Growth – Reproduction – Death
Mother nature desires us to procreate.
But being celibate for a man, without regularly emptying and stimulation of his prostate gland, is not a health practice.
This has been proven true by the results of statistical studies of catholic priest and their high rate of prostate cancers.
Source: http://www.prostate-massage-and-health.com/celibacy.html
Cheers!
heaven sent. flesh urges...you mean instinct ...an evolutionary trait with out which we would not be here to day. Most of us have a long line of relatives ( the least being human) that go back many, many millions of years. with out this primordial carnal mud wrestling by our early ancestors you and I would not be here today.
HeavenSent is right. Celibacy is a gift. Jesus grants His followers victory over carnality in life's walk with Him. Men with bad wives get sicker and we don't live for good health alone. Life is more than that.
@EvolvedDNA, no worries, the life-long celibacy is not for a few. And God created everything. You should worship God instead of creation(nature). Bad kids even recognize their good parents' contribution.
Justina (Christian) Again no proof of your as-sertions. You claim god made every thing, there is no evidence to that, but evidence for evolution. You are as connected to the universe as much as a tree, or hippo.To claim that god did it is so boring and makes the beauty of nature inert. Evolution, apart from being true, is far more elegant than any of the convoluted religious stories. Thinking that wearing a certain piece of fabric, special underwear, golden rings, frocks, golden crosses, being celibate, praying and chanting will make any difference to the universe is an ego trip only the religious can take.
EvolvedDNA, I knew you had rejected God not because of lack of evidences but simply because the truth is boring to you and you chose to turn into a nature-worshipping new ager. Your preference doesn't determine any truth. Truth is objective.
Justina christian..I am most certainly not bored.. I travel a lot and see tons of interesting things. We are all of nature.. your church is a division of the pagans .. and has borrowed some of the practices. Not sure what you mean by new age.. i admire nature and evolution and our place with in the universe.. as should you. just saying god did it is boring and inaccurate.
EvolvedDNA, your thinking is pagan. Church is established by Jesus Himself. Authentic Christian Church cannot be pagan as it upholds the Christ alone. Worship God instead of creation or creatures.
Apparently his book is not selling well so it is back to CNN for more promotion.
Holy Moly, we agree. Peace.
Anglican, if you are Christian, don't say "holy" lightly. Only God is holy.
I'm celibate,but not by choice,men just seem intimadated by my knowledge of the true bible.Got a date with my neck massager got to go.
You might want to loosen up a bit.
@ plenty of eligible religious wack-o's here in Texas.
"I'm celibate,but not by choice"
That's just rippingly funny! That's the finest piece of unintentional comedy I have read in a very long time! I would have suspected that your sharp edges and religious zealotry would drive men away, but I would not have expected you to admit something like that.
I think T-party is right; somewhere in a rural part the Deep South is just the man for you. Look for a big rebel flag and the charred remains of a cross in a yard. Your soulmate is just a knock of the door away.
hello justina good job on remaining celibate. do you mind saying whether or not you mastrrrbate? I am torn by whether this is a sin or not and dont know whether or not to feel guilty about doing it.
*******@Incontinentia Buttocks: That's just rippingly funny! That's the finest piece of unintentional comedy I have read in a very long time!"*******
LMAO... I couldn't have said it better myself. However, the human gene pool GREATLY appreciates Justina's chast-ity more that words could ever appropriately articulate.
And to you Justina, here is a sampling of some of the benefits of s-ex:
– Improved sense of smell
– Stress and blood pressure reduction
– Increased immunity
– Decreased risk of certain types of cancer
– Can help you physically look years younger
– Greater contentment levels
– Sleep better at night
– Increases levels of the hormone oxytocin, also known as "the love hormone", which helps people bond and build trust
If your body is truly your temple, surely you'd want to take the best care of it as possible. Not having (safe) s-ex is depriving your body of better health.
Peace.
Go in peace Justina. Remember, do unto yourself what you would rather do unto others.
The top comment is a fake Justina. I knew it's coming.
For those who seem to remember my Christian comments posted from as Justina, I'm married and I'm Protestant. I feel kind of happy some of you seem to remember me because I love atheists in Jesus. I testify there are real sorrows in both celibate life and married life. But everything is made beautiful and worthwhile only in God's love. All those who suffer from lack of true love and spiritual/emotional/physical satisfaction in life, or those who scorn purity, virginity and marriage acts which are God's gifts, there is always hope and true joy in Jesus. Come to Jesus as you are; tell Him you are sorry and accept His love. He will give rest and peace to your souls forever.
The Episcopal Church welcomes you. Peace.
Make priests celibate and you get pedophilia scandals. Make Mormons chaste and you get unusually high rates of po-rn consumption and ra-pe in Utah. When you repress human se-xuality, it will manifest itself again in perverse ways. Religion has done no good for humanity in it's attempts to repress people.
Well stated Al.
In 2000, the Kansas City Star (the city's main newspaper) did a report showing that Catholic Priests were dying from HIV/AIDS at a rate FOUR TIMES higher than the general population. Almost a full year later, the paper came back to update their earlier story because they uncovered hundreds of more deaths from HIV/AIDS and stated that their new findings "exceed earlier estimates."
Here's the reality: The Catholic Church is littered with hom-ose-xual priests and child molesters (never to mind being currently investigated by international police for ties to the Mafia yet again). These priests (both gay and straight) are running around having s-ex. Some of them are even secretly married. None of this even talks about ordained priests ra-ping nuns and impregnating them in other parts of the world.
And this is the place where people choose to get their morals from???? I mean, really? The Church is filled with hypocrisy that knows no bounds. People could learn far more about moral values from watching the Brady Bunch or Leave it to Beaver. Oh wait, this priest did leave "it" with the "beaver." lol
And so what did the Church do with this "rising" star (pun possibly intended) amongst their ranks? He got chased out. Chase out the good "normal" men and get left with the rest. Brilliant strategy... I wonder how many private sector companies would succeed with human resources strategies such as that.
Realities are that having (safe) s-ex actually has significant health benefits to humans. The RCC is actually literally depriving their priests of good health.
The reason why the RCC doesn't allow married priests is because they don't want to have to pay for the extra housing costs, food costs, medical insurance, etc and when they get separated/divorced, they don't want to have to pay alimony and child support... thus, they have shrunk their pool of viable candidates for the priesthood and end up with ra-pists and hom-ose-xuals and straight men who have consensual se-xual encounters with females.... ALL of which they preach against.
Talk about hypocrisy.... and yet the "faithful" continue to fund them. Absolutely mindboggling.
The Truth,
You said, ‘He got chased out.’
You are wrong.
Mr. Cutie was asked to stay in the Church as a member of the laity but he felt he had too much education to ‘sit in the back of the Church’… is how he put it; that is the at!tude he has for the laity. A holy Priest looks at the laity as the Body of Christ, each member having his/her talents/gifts….not all members are ears, not all are hands, and so on….but somehow he placed himself above all the other members of the Body….he did not see himself as a Servant of God, shepherding the flock….being a Father to the ‘children’… in their spiritual needs.
He said he needed more time to break the news to his mother….two years wasn’t long enough to figure out how to ‘do this’…but then his girlfriend got pregnant…and the camera caught him….so he finally was forced into owning up to the lie he was living.
Now he writes books and is on the radio, running down the Catholic Church…. But this short little reminder of him only tells me that he hasn’t sold enough books to warrant writing another….I feel sorry for him. But he is young, he knows he can come home to Mother Church when he finally can admit to himself [and God] that he is lonesome…..and sorry.
******@CatholicMom: The Truth, You said, ‘He got chased out.’ You are wrong.*******
We are using semantics now. For all intents and purposes, he was not allowed to maintain his current job. They made him an offer "he could refuse" (as opposed to their Mafia counterparts who make offers they can't refuse) and so he left.
The irony here is that this man left the Church (because they for all intents and purposes) showed him the door by not allowing him to keep his job, while they continue to cover up child ra-pists. So apparently having s-ex with a consensual adult of the opposite gender is worse than ra-ping children of the same gender. Typical thinking on their part.
******Mr. Cutie was asked to stay in the Church as a member of the laity but he felt he had too much education to ‘sit in the back of the Church’… is how he put it; that is the at!tude he has for the laity. A holy Priest looks at the laity as the Body of Christ, each member having his/her talents/gifts….not all members are ears, not all are hands, and so on….but somehow he placed himself above all the other members of the Body….he did not see himself as a Servant of God, shepherding the flock….being a Father to the ‘children’… in their spiritual needs.*******
Let's be frank here: This man spent an immense amount of time in university to become a priest. It takes 8+ years to do this. What the Church is asking is akin to a hospital asking a medical doctor to become a candy striper. The Church was paying for his housing, living expenses, food, etc. Were they going to continue to do that as a member of the laity?
**********He said he needed more time to break the news to his mother….two years wasn’t long enough to figure out how to ‘do this’…but then his girlfriend got pregnant…and the camera caught him….so he finally was forced into owning up to the lie he was living.***********
God forbid that he engaged in s-ex which is HEALTHY for humans to do. At least he owned up unlike the countless ra-pists who declare innocence and the Church backs them all the way to the bitter end.
*********Now he writes books and is on the radio, running down the Catholic Church…. ********
I want you to think about this honestly with an open mind.
This man had consensual s-ex with a female and they want him to be part of the laity.
Father Lawrence Murphy ra-ped over TWO HUNDRED children.... not only were they children, but they were DEAF CHILDREN. Bishops notified the POPE HIMSELF (then still a Cardinal) to act on this and the Vatican did nothing. The priest died and the Vatican REFUSED to defrock this sick disgrace of a human being because they were more worried about another scandal.
Therefore, your Church found it more egregious that Priest #1 had consensual relations with an adult female than they did with Priest #2 who ra-ped hundreds of deaf children of the same gender. Absolutely sickening and pathetic beyond words.
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Here's the story of "Father" Murphy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/world/europe/25vatican.html
Peace.