March 9th, 2011
12:55 PM ET

Imam Rauf: Hearings send wrong message

On Tuesday, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf sat down with Eliot Spitzer on In the Arena.  Rauf said upcoming Congressional hearings will distort perceptions of the American Muslim community.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Culture wars • Islam • Muslim • New York • United States

soundoff (79 Responses)
  1. Muneef


    Al-Hajj sura 22:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    O mankind! Fear your Lord. Lo! the earthquake of the Hour (of Doom) is a tremendous thing. (1) On the day when ye behold it, every nursing mother will forget her nursling and every pregnant one will be delivered of her burden, and thou (Muhammad) wilt see mankind as drunken, yet they will not be drunken, but the Doom of Allah will be strong (upon them). (2) Among mankind is he who disputeth concerning Allah without knowledge, and followeth each froward devil; (3) For him it is decreed that whoso taketh him for friend, he verily will mislead him and will guide him to the punishment of the Flame. (4).

    Al-Zalzala sura 99:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    When Earth is shaken with her (final) earthquake (1) And Earth yieldeth up her burdens, (2) And man saith: What aileth her? (3) That day she will relate her chronicles, (4) Because thy Lord inspireth her. (5) That day mankind will issue forth in scattered groups to be shown their deeds. (6) And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then, (7) And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then. (8).

    March 13, 2011 at 11:54 am |
  2. Oh, I See.

    ****** Dear CNN ********

    This format is terrible!!!!

    March 12, 2011 at 8:42 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      That's better. HTML glitch?

      March 12, 2011 at 8:43 pm |
  3. Muneef


    March 11, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
  4. Muneef

    So turned to be an old retired man.... what year was your birth then? Well sorry if I had thought of you being younger..so sorry if I had crossed line with you...

    March 10, 2011 at 8:09 pm |
    • Keith

      "To Jerusalem we are heading. Martyrs in the millions!"- What's up with that Muneef? Kind of sounds like "we're off to see the wizzard". I've got some bad news for them... they won't make it to Jerusalem. And the wizzard's name isn't Allah. So when Allah doesn't answer-ask for Jesus.

      March 10, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
    • Muneef

      Al-Baqara sura 02:
      And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. (186).

      March 11, 2011 at 4:03 am |
    • Keith

      Maybe Zechariah can shed a little light on the subject. "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkeness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it." Zechariah 12:2,3
      And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. Zechariah 14:12
      Are you REALLY sure you want give this a try, Muneef? Kind of sounds to me like you get nuked. How would Zechariah describe such weapons so accurately thousand of years ago?

      March 11, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • Muneef

      That was very interesting and surely Prophets of God knew many advance facts although they considered it power of God but I know that you mean some thing else that is produced there....although it was supposed to protect them but having seen what would now Ja-p-an suffer from the le-ak-age they had at their power plants,it shows how the power of magic can easly turn aga-i-nst the magician...

      Zechariah if am not wrong was the care taker of Mary and was the father of Yahia (Johanna) the Baptist?

      March 12, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
    • Muneef


      Another thing told about Jerusalem in the Quran are the following verses;

      Al-Isra sura 17:
      And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture: Ye verily will work corruption in the earth twice, and ye will become great ty-ra-nts. (4) So when the time for the first of the two came, We roused against you slaves of Ours of great might who ra-v-aged (your) country, and it was a threat performed. (5) Then we gave you once again your turn against them, and We aided you with wealth and children and made you more in soldiery. (6) (Saying): If ye do good, ye do good for your own souls, and if ye do evil, it is for them (in like manner). So, when the time for the second (of the judgments) came (We roused against you others of Our slaves) to ra-v-age you, and to enter the Temple even as they entered it the first time, and to lay waste all that they con-que-red with an utter wasting. (7) It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the pun-ish-ment), and We have appointed hell a dun-g-eon for the disbelievers. (8).

      March 12, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
    • Muneef


      Can see that Zechariah was mentioned in the Quran among other Prophets;
      Al-Anaam sura 06:
      Those who believe and obscure not their belief by wrongdoing, theirs is safety; and they are rightly guided. (82) That is Our argument. We gave it unto Abraham against his folk. We raise unto degrees of wisdom whom We will. Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware. (83) And We bestowed upon him Isaac and Jacob; each of them We guided; and Noah did We guide aforetime; and of his seed (We guided) David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good. (84) And Zachariah and John and Jesus and Elias. Each one (of them) was of the righteous. (85) And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot. Each one of them did We prefer above (Our) creatures, (86) With some of their forefathers and their offspring and their brethren; and We chose them and guided them unto a straight path. (87) Such is the guidance of Allah wherewith He guideth whom He will of His bondmen. But if they had set up (for worship) aught beside Him, (all) that they did would have been vain. (88).

      March 12, 2011 at 5:12 pm |
    • Muneef


      Told from verses as well that not all which came in the Holy Scriptures were shown and that much was hidden undeclared;
      Al-Anaam sura 06:
      Those are they unto whom We gave the Scripture and command and prophethood. But if these disbelieve therein, then indeed We shall entrust it to a people who will not be disbelievers therein. (89) Those are they whom Allah guideth, so follow their guidance. Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): I ask of you no fee for it. Lo! it is naught but a Reminder to (His) creatures. (90) And they measure not the power of Allah its true measure when they say: Allah hath naught revealed unto a human being. Say (unto the Jews who speak thus): Who revealed the Book which Moses brought, a light and guidance for mankind, which ye have put on parchments which ye show, but ye hide much (thereof), and by which ye were taught that which ye knew not yourselves nor (did) your fathers (know it)? Say: Allah. Then leave them to their play of cavilling. (91) And this is a blessed Scripture which We have revealed, confirming that which (was revealed) before it, that thou mayst warn the Mother of Villages and those around her. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe herein, and they are careful of their worship. (92).

      March 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • Keith

      Muneef, Near as I can tell, this is a showdown. So you and your muslim pals, your mahdi, mohamed, Al akbar and whomever else you can muster; bring your bad selves to Jerusalem. My money's on the Holy God of Israel. YHWH. O my God, make them like the whirling dust, like the chaff before the wind! As the fire burns the woods, And as the flame sets the mountains on fire, So pursue them with your tempest, and frighten them with Your storm. Fill their faces with shame, That they may seek Your name, O Lord. Let them be confounded and dismayed forever; yes, let them be put to shame and perish, that they may know that You, whose name alone is the Lord, Are the Most High over all the earth. Psalm 83:13-18 When this is over islam will cease as a religion. Islam will be an example for the rest of the world.

      March 14, 2011 at 10:09 pm |
    • Muneef

      Hi,hello Keith.
      I knew that the message was for me and I came happily runing to see what comment you in stored for me in our exchanged comments,to my surprise I find you instead of meeting me with flowers being your Arabic Cousin,I find you are meeting me with acid fire??

      What do we want from Jerusalem other than praying in the Holy Mosque, otherwise who has to claim you for the lands are the Palestinians not us as we have our own lands to live on?!

      Read this;
      Does not these verses that will follow speak of the Ancient Falling Systems and the Recent Past and Present Falling Systems? It warns and remind all of the future that if you fail you fall...and those blows come to believers and unbelievers on turns..it tests believers and destroys disbelievers....How much of that happens through wars and conflicts....How much of that through Natural Disasters....Aren't we seeing that all? Isn't it telling us some thing is wrong of our own wrong doing and disbelief....? Man can reverse ill-faith by reversing intentions in to right doings in deeds,actions and spiritual worship,prayers in peace with soul,pay poor due and charity as a belief and a spiritual meditation for soul to have mercy on earth,afterlife,resurrection and judgment day.....?!? What we got to lose,since we all ride the same as ship in the middle of this universe as a ship in the ocean..and every body wants it his way such a ship will never set to sail but to crash and drawn with the whole lot...!?      

      Al-E-Imran sura 03:
      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      Systems have passed away before you. Do but travel in the land and see the nature of the consequence for those who did deny (the messengers). (137) This is a declaration for mankind, a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil) (138) Faint not nor grieve, for ye will overcome them if ye are (indeed) believers. (139) If ye have received a blow, the (disbelieving) people have received a blow the like thereof. These are (only) the vicissitudes which We cause to follow one another for mankind, to the end that Allah may know those who believe and may choose witnesses from among you; and Allah loveth not wrong-doers. (140) And that Allah may prove those who believe, and may blight the disbelievers. (141).

      March 14, 2011 at 10:21 pm |
    • Muneef


      My God and your God is One and only...no matter what he is named or called by you or me he is one with millions of names
      Read this;

      Al-Isra sura 17:
      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      Say (unto mankind): Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names. And thou (Muhammad), be not loud-voiced in thy worship nor yet silent therein, but follow a way between. (110) And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence. (111).

      So I would say God forgive you for cursing and swearing since I had not done that to you we all derived from Abrahmic faith we all believe in the messangers of God...so no one superior than the other except who does more good than bad...

      March 14, 2011 at 10:30 pm |
    • Muneef

      Al-Isra sura 17:
      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      Lo! this Qur'an guideth unto that which is straightest, and giveth tidings unto the believers who do good works that theirs will be a great reward. (9) And that those who believe not in the Hereafter, for them We have prepared a painful doom. (10) Man prayeth for evil as he prayeth for good; for man was ever hasty. (11).

      March 14, 2011 at 10:48 pm |
    • Keith

      Muneef, Allah and YHWH are not the same. Jesus is not allah. I wish you would find the Truth. What I'm saying is by reading the Bible and observing current events, I sense a war on the not so distant horizon. In this war, Israel's neighbors are in for a major as-s whoopin'. Don't get caught on the wrong side of this. If this plays out like Psalm 83 says it will, then a rational person should (re)examine his/her beliefs, yes?

      March 15, 2011 at 2:59 pm |
  5. Reality

    The reason for this hearing and one that takes priority over any hurt feelings or tears:

    What instigated the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon? And what continues to drive Muslims to commit global acts of terror and horror? The koran, Mohammed's book of death for all infidels and Muslim domination of the world by any means. Muslims must clean up this book removing said passages admitting that they are based on the Gabriel myth and therefore obviously the hallucinations and/or lies of Mohammed. Then we can talk about the safety and location of mosques and what is taught therein. Until then, no male Muslim can be trusted anytime or anywhere.–

    (Dr. Jasser, one of the witnesses at the hearing definitely is aware of the situation within Islam. One hopes he is successful in his attempts to modernize Islam.)

    March 10, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
  6. MsMHS

    I am 100% in favor of these hearings. We can not as a country put our citizens in jeopardy for the sake of political correctness. These hearings should have been held years ago after 911. I praise for Mr. King for moving forward. If this is going to harm the Muslim religion or community, why is it that concern was not made for the Italians and Catholics who sat through Bobby Kennedy's hearings on the Mafia? If we don't move forward, this country will become a Muslim country and that would be the cruelest thing that could happen to Americans.

    March 10, 2011 at 9:31 am |
  7. HR

    "Allah is our objective; the Prophet is our leader; the Quran is our law; Jihad is our way; dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

    Does that sound like the motto of a nice, peaceful, non-violent, secular organization? President Obama and his national intelligence director James Clapper think so.

    But contrary to the perversely rosy assessment of America's top leadership, the Muslim Brotherhood – the shadowy, transnational Islamist parent organization of al-Qaida and Hamas – is committed not only to filling the growing leadership vacuum in the Arab world, but also, through its many proxies within the U.S, to impose the Quran and Shariah law right here in America. Impeach Obama now!

    March 10, 2011 at 9:08 am |
  8. blessedgeek

    Christianity believes in giving up the world for god, and believes that everyone should perform the penance of giving up the world – in order to accomplish that Christianity believes that christian laws and practices must dominate the world.

    Islam believes in gaining the world for god and believes that everyone should perform the jihad of gaining the world – in order to accomplish that Islam believes that islamic laws and practices must dominate the world.

    Islam is like the electron of religious domination and Christianity the equivalent electron void.

    An electron void travelling in one direction is equivalent to the current flow of an electron travelling in the opposite direction. An electron void is simply a virtual electron with a little sophistication.

    Islam is very direct about its needs and desires to dominate the world.

    On the other hand, Christianity is a little more deceptive and indirect in their needs and desires to dominate the world.

    March 10, 2011 at 12:20 am |
    • Justina

      Anything is better than evil atheism.

      March 10, 2011 at 5:02 am |
    • D

      @Justina. Judge lest ye be judged. Why are you judging Atheists for something they feel strongly about (AKA: Not believing in a religion)? How would YOU feel if someone attacked you for your religion?

      March 10, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
  9. T-party

    @ Reality....thank you for you most excellent posts!

    March 9, 2011 at 10:46 pm |
  10. Keith

    Perhaps the good imam can explain why the "peaceful" muslim brotherhood marchers in Cairo are chanting, "To Jerusalem we are heading, martyrs in the millions". Read Psalm 83. Once these nations confederate, they will attack Israel. God will intervene-and islam will be no more.

    March 9, 2011 at 8:12 pm |
    • Justina

      Anyone against Israel makes himself an enemy of God Almighty – recoreded in the Holy Bible clearly and repeatedly.

      March 9, 2011 at 9:28 pm |
    • T-party

      ripping off Blake Dear mother, dear mother, the church is cold,
      But the ale-house is healthy and pleasant and warm;
      Besides I can tell where I am used well,
      Such usage in Heaven will never do well.

      But if at the church they would give us some ale,
      And a pleasant fire our souls to regale,
      We'd sing and we'd pray all the live-long day,
      Nor ever once wish from the church to stray.

      Then the parson might preach, and drink, and sing,
      And we'd be as happy as birds in the spring;
      And modest Dame Lurch, who is always at church,
      Would not have bandy children, nor fasting, nor birch.

      And God, like a father rejoicing to see
      His children as pleasant and happy as he,
      Would have no more quarrel with the Devil or the barrel,
      But kiss him, and give him both drink and apparel.

      Did you like this poem?

      March 9, 2011 at 10:45 pm |
    • Enemy Of God

      I like Israel, but Liechtenstein I won't touch.

      March 10, 2011 at 10:50 am |
  11. GSA

    @Oh, I see – I said Sharia will never be implemented and it has not been. The pool you speak of has all religions/cultures that swim there but it is women only and for the fact that some women do not feel comfortable swimming in front of men. Yes, Muslim women asked for it but women from all cultures/religions have taken to it and love the idea and were welcomed with open arms by the Muslim women, it is not a "segragation by Sharia only pool' as you put it. You should really check the link and read it carefully yourself next time. Also the original article has been on many credible local news stations and papers, I suggest that you not take anything from a web-site that has an agenda so painfully obvious as the one you have linked.
    I'm assuming that you know more about this pool than me since you've been to Edmonton to check it out and to get all the "facts" as you say (sarcasm here if you don't get it).

    March 9, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      @ GSA

      So tell us, GSA, are there any 'restrictions' during the -females only- swim time? Are there no male lifeguards? Is anyone in particular prohibited from being in the area? Are there any restrictive dress requirements? Here's a litmus test... not from me, but from the Edmonton Sun:


      And as far as the 'Creeping Sharia" site is concerned – sure. You're damned right the have an agenda. To expose Sharia for what it is. Like the restrictions demanded for (muslim) women here in the US, in the UK, Amsterdam and Australia. And now in Canada. Is sounds so... benign. Good for women. A nice place to meet and feel safe...

      Bull. It's more than that. Click the blue links on the Edmonton Pool article on the Creeping Sharia site for examples. Smoke and mirrors – always, 'eh, GSA?

      March 9, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
    • Oh, I See.


      March 9, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      Push, push, push.... push a little more... push a lot....Push Harder.

      You know what this will result in GSA?

      People pushing back.

      March 9, 2011 at 7:15 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      You're right.. I'm not familiar with your town. But apparently this person is.


      March 9, 2011 at 7:17 pm |
  12. Marine5484

    We all need to calm down and listen to what will be said before we get all hostile on this topic....nothing wrong with having a discussion between the US govt and the Muslim community. i havent herd one part of this saying that all Muslims are the problem. If extremist groups are actively recruiting American Muslims and they do....then there should be a debate on the topic....its not racism but, there are plenty of groups playing that card

    March 9, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
  13. GSA

    @Oh, I See – good one but this has been an issue without the involvement of religion. Womens only gyms, pools, etc. have been around Canada long before any mention of Sharia law so why is it an issue now, because a Muslim asked for it? When it was old, white Christian ladies asking no one seemed to mind. I just don't get why all these ppl weren't speaking up before when others have done it yet do now when they feel a small group of Muslims are doing it.
    @Pierre Alexes – funny I could say the same thing about Christians/Catholics. Picketing funerals for soldiers, bombing abortion clinics, etc. They do not get their way democratically even though Christians/Catholics are a majority yet still terrorize the very country they live in and the citizens that protect them.

    March 9, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
    • Oh, I See.


      "any mention of Sharia law so why is it an issue now, because a Muslim asked for it?

      Old white women don't care who else is in the pool with them as long as they are female. Although a YWCA may sponsor a swim club, they don't preclude anyone from attending, as long as they pay the fee. Social gender segregation -may- be acceptable (if a guy wants to swim with the ladies – what's to legally prevent him?).

      Segregation by Sharia is not.

      Oh, and weren't you the one that keeps saying 'Sharia will never be implemented." Yep, that's you alright. So now, when I give you and example – it's suddenly ok? To answer you question, "...because a Muslim asked for it?" Yes. Absolutely, positively. Right you are.

      Tell me some more about Sharia not being a threat... So I can contradict your propaganda with fact.

      March 9, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
    • Pierre Alexes - Westmount, Qc

      You have your views, which, in my opinion are views of someone who has not done his/her homework. I have mine which are based on research. Here is an expression that I hold: don't overargue if you have the upper hand of an argument.

      March 9, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
  14. Pierre Alexes - Westmount, Qc

    Typical muslim (reaction)! As far as Elliot Spitzer being “fantastic”, he sure falls in the Bambi mentality category; a pitiful sight. Doesn’t the surah of Conquest in the so-called islam’s “sacred” book exhorts the muslims to slaughter, vengeance, and death. “If any believe not in allah and his messenger, we have prepared for those who reject him a blazing fire.” Latest example in Egypt. The Western civilization needs to be prepared to fight the islamists as it is their grand plan to conquer the world and impose their perversion. An islamist system is one that is chronically diseased, and islam, as it is practiced today, is it not a kind of sociological and religious fossil?

    Islam is a “religion” of conquest, unpolished and without pity. Islam is a “religion” with no other joy but what a brute can feel when he imposes his law on others by force – a joy that is amplified by the satisfaction that he follows allah’s orders and will directly gain paradise.

    The unbelievable arrogance of islamists clearly indicates, under cultural and religious pretexts, that the various hidden objective of muslim groups is political power and islamization of the world. Islam, today as it was yesterday, remains a “religion” of conquest, warlike and aggressive that does not tolerate any opposition.

    Islam built on the basis of so-called “divine revelations” by a self-proclaimed “prophet” resembles more an authentic machine to conquer, oppress, destroy and murder. Islam is machinery that knows how to cleverly use human stupidity, the fanaticism of one and the slavishness of others.

    Peter King’s hearings MUST go on. It must be imposed and must be imposed with urgency because failure to hold these hearings will eventually result in the risk of arms having doing the talking and not only in the hands of islamists.

    March 9, 2011 at 4:07 pm |
    • False Reality

      Pretty sure the King James Bible says pretty similar things, so I guess that would make Christins also followers of a religion of violence. We should have a hearing to encourage all of the Abortion bombers to be brought to justice by the Christian community!

      March 10, 2011 at 9:04 pm |
  15. GSA

    @Nonimus – great post.

    March 9, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      Sharia segregation in Edmonton, Canada


      March 9, 2011 at 3:31 pm |
    • Nonimus


      March 9, 2011 at 4:23 pm |
  16. GSA

    @Bill – good post.
    What about 3rd or 4th generation Americans? If one is known to be plotting against the US or its citizens any sort of terror act what should the punishment be? I know the lines become blurred here but what is the difference if someone is a citizen for 20 years, 60 years or they were born here? An act of terror is just as dangerous coming from either one I would think.

    March 9, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      Treason and Death.

      March 9, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
    • Bill

      A native born American citizen is a different problem from a naturalized citizen. A naturalized citizen chose to come to our country and then chose to become a citizen of this country – supposedly because they agreed with our ideals and wanted to be an American. By trying to destroy us, they are saying they no longer agree with our ideals and therefore they should no longer be a citizen.

      March 9, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
  17. Bill

    According to a recent NEWSWEEK article at least 25 American citizens—both born in the U.S. and naturalized—have been charged with serious federal terrorism violations since the beginning of 2009, according to information compiled by federal authorities. “These cases clearly suggest that an increasing number of U.S. citizens, both native-born Americans and naturalized citizens, appear to be getting involved in the terrorist cause. The list includes:

    *Faisal Shahzad, the accused perpetrator of the recent failed Times Square car bombing. Also on the list are Zarein Ahmedzay and Adis Medunjanin, naturalized Americans born in Afghanistan and Bosnia, respectively, who allegedly conspired with Najibullah Zazi, an Afghan-born permanent resident of the U.S. in a plot to bomb the New York City subway system last September. Zazi, the alleged mastermind, is not listed as one of the 25 American citizens arrested for terrorism in the last 18 months

    It appears that so far none of these home-grown terrorists have lost their citizenship. In fact, it appears that only one home-grown terrorist, Yaser Esam Hamdi, even came close to losing his citizenship. He was captured in Afghanistan in 2001. The U.S. government claimed that he was fighting against U.S. and Afghan Northern Alliance forces with the Taliban. He was named by the Bush administration as an "illegal enemy combatant", and detained for almost three years. On September 23, 2004, the United States Justice Department agreed to release Hamdi to Saudi Arabia on the condition that he give up his U.S. citizenship, a deal later revoked by the courts after Hamdi’s refusal to give up his citizenship.

    It is time for this to change. Naturalized U.S. citizen’s convicted of planning, financing or committing terrorist acts against the U.S. or our allies should be stripped of their citizenship immediately on conviction of their involvement in terrorist activities.

    "The Protection of American Citizenship Act of 2011" (Proposed)

    This law applies to naturalized American citizens and their immediate family members.

    1. Any naturalized American citizen convicted of planning, financing, or conducting terrorist activities or operations against the U.S. or its allies shall be immediately stripped of their American citizenship and have their passport revoked.
    2. An individual stripped of their American citizenship under this law, will be immediately deported to their country of origin on completion of their prison sentence.
    3. Individuals stripped of citizenship may not reapply for American citizenship. Their citizenship will only be restored in cases where their conviction is overturned.
    4. The immediate family members (parents, siblings, spouse, and children) of an individual stripped of their citizenship by reason of conviction for involvement in terrorist activities or operations, shall, if they are naturalized citizens, also be stripped of their citizenship, and immediately deported to their country of origin.
    a. An exception to this paragraph shall be granted in cases where individuals notified government authorities of their family members involvement in suspected terrorist activities in sufficient time to allow the government to prevent them from carrying out any terrorist actions.
    b. A further exception shall be granted to family members who a natural born American citizens.
    5. Any naturalized American citizen found to be guilty by a U.S. or foreign court of encouraging terrorist actions against the U.S. or its allies through any means, shall be stripped of their American citizenship and have their passport revoked. If outside of the country, they shall not be allowed to return. If inside the country, they shall be deported to their country of origin.
    6. A naturalized American citizen convicted of a non-terrorism related violent felony shall be immediately stripped of their citizenship on conviction and deported to their country of origin on completion of their prison sentence.
    7. A non-U.S. citizen who is convicted of involvement in terrorist actions against the U.S, and is a legal resident of the U.S., shall have their legal residency status revoked and be deported to their country of origin on completion of their sentence.
    8. No individual stripped of their citizenship under this law shall be allowed to return to the United States or its territories.

    Its time to revoke the citizenship of people who are found guilty of plotting to cause harm to our country. They and their families don’t need to be citizens if they are plotting to destroy the country.

    Why should anyone who hates the U.S. enough to commit acts of terrorism against us be allowed to remain a citizen of the very country they are seeking to destroy?

    Citizenship is a privelege not a right if you are not native born.

    We need to use a little common sense here. If a naturalized citizen is trying to destroy us, why should they or their family be allowed to retain a U.S. citizenship.

    March 9, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      @ Bill

      Excellent post. Kudos on a very nice job.

      March 9, 2011 at 2:58 pm |
    • Nonimus

      "Citizenship is a privelege not a right if you are not native born."
      So native born citizens are better than naturalized citizens? How do you justify this distinction based on the Const.itution?

      "This law applies to naturalized American citizens and their immediate family members."
      Part of the Const.itution affords everyone equal protection under the law and due process, how do you justify stripping the citizenship and deportation of citizens, the family members, without showing their guilt. In other words, in the US we don't allow guilt by blood or guilt by association.

      March 9, 2011 at 3:23 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      @ Nominus

      I don't see anything in Bill's post that precludes due process. In fact, if it's proven that 'family members' had knowledge, and failed to report to authorities of such, then they are indeed legally complicit.

      If anything, this proposed "Protection of Citizenship" act is too lax. We'd be perfectly within our rights to prosecute offenders under existing laws as opposed to shipping them out of the country. What this act does, however, is save us the tax dollars spent on incarceration.

      March 9, 2011 at 3:38 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Oh, I see,
      "In fact, if it's proven that 'family members' had knowledge, and failed to report to authorities of such, then they are indeed legally complicit."

      Where exactly did you see any condition of proof that the family was complicit?

      "4. The immediate family members (parents, siblings, spouse, and children) of an individual stripped of their citizenship by reason of conviction for involvement in terrorist activities or operations, shall, if they are naturalized citizens, also be stripped of their citizenship, and immediately deported to their country of origin."

      March 9, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
    • Bill

      The intent is to provide a possible deterrent to a young naturalized citizen contemplating taking up the terrorist cause.

      Many of the first and second generation families are very close and know what is going on. If the parents of a son contemplating terrorism know that their other children and themselves, who may have worked very hard for a good life here as US citizens, are going to be sent back to the streets of Somalia, Yemen or some other country, rather than remaining safely in the U.S., perhaps the family dynamic will be a bit different.

      March 9, 2011 at 4:31 pm |
    • Nonimus

      "The intent is to provide a possible deterrent ..."
      "If the parents of a son contemplating terrorism know that their other children and themselves... are going to be sent back to the streets of... some other country... perhaps the family dynamic will be a bit different."

      So, we inst.itutionalize extortion as a deterrent? 'Be good or we'll kill your family.' What is this the mafia?

      We do not punish people for the crimes of another! If they are complicit, then absolutely, prosecute, but for their own crimes, not those of another. Where did you grow up? You should sue your history/civics teacher.

      March 9, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      @ Nominus

      Something tells me that Bill, unlike yourself, has graduated beyond 'history teachers.' Besides, he didn't write the proposed legislation..


      March 9, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Oh, I see.,
      Are you saying that Bill's law, or the law he's supporting anyway, is sound?
      If you owe taxes can the IRS collect it from your parents or children?
      If your brother kills someone, can the government, or their family, kill you as punishment?


      March 9, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      Within reasonable parameters, yes. I agree with both Bill and the bill. And don't stretch the example across inapplicable fer' instances. The proposed legislation serves to target a specific problem.

      March 9, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Oh, I see.,
      So you are saying that it is okay to deport a citizen of the US for crimes that they did not commit?

      March 9, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      Naturalized citizen? Yes, depending upon the severity of the collusion / offense. If heinous enough, charges of treason might be appropriate.

      March 9, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Oh, I see.,
      I think you misunderstand. If they are guilty of conspiracy or are accessory to a crime then that is their own crime not someone else, for which they ought to be prosecuted. That is not what Bill was supporting.

      "4. The immediate family members (parents, siblings, spouse, and children) of an individual [who was] stripped of [his or her] citizenship by reason of conviction for involvement in terrorist activities or operations, [all said family members] shall, if they are naturalized citizens, also be stripped of their citizenship, and immediately deported to their country of origin.
      [This says nothing about collusion, conspiracy, accessory to a crime, or even knowledge of the crime. The guilt is being family.]
      a. An exception to this paragraph shall be granted in cases where individuals notified government authorities of their family members involvement in suspected terrorist activities in sufficient time to allow the government to prevent them from carrying out any terrorist actions.
      [If they did know ahead of time and notified authorities then they are not deported.]
      b. A further exception shall be granted to family members who a natural born American citizens.
      [If they were born in the US they will not be deported.] "

      As I said before, where exactly is this conditional on proof of the family member being complicit. Keeping in mind that if they are accomplices, accessories, or conspirators, then they will be prosecuted for their own crimes.

      March 9, 2011 at 7:29 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      Well, it seems we've been inadvertently punked... This apparently is Bill's law. There's no pending legislation by this particular name. There is H.R. 140: The Birthright Citizenship Act of 2011 introduced in early January by Pete King of Iowa, but this isn't what I believe Bill is working from in -his- "Protection of Citizenship Act". There's nothing like what Bill describes here.... So – good gotcha', Bill. Nevertheless, working from the pure hypothetical Bill has given us:

      Citizenship status, whether naturalized or natural-born, cannot preclude due process. To do so smacks of something rather...unconsti-tutional. So, if it were Bill's intention to use the leverage of "family should have known" as prima facie evidence, without providing substantial evidence supporting the family's knowledge (the burden of proof falling on the prosecution) there could be no conviction. Thus, at least the 'family knowledge' component of "Bill's Law" would certainly be ruled unconsiti-tional, if not the whole thing.

      March 9, 2011 at 8:53 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Oh, I see.
      Hey, there we go. That sounds about right, if I understand what you're saying. Thought I might be missing something there for awhile, but just couldn't find anything that made it reasonable. You stated it much better than I did.
      I hadn't even thought of looking up actual bills, guess I just assumed it was his, but didn't verify anything.

      March 9, 2011 at 9:37 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      @ Nominus

      I think that (at least for me) the source of the confusion was in the unstated application of due process, or lack thereof. I don't think we want to issue ICE agents goose-stepping boots, so we'd best stick to what we know works well.

      March 9, 2011 at 10:21 pm |
    • Bill

      Good points.

      I believe due process is important. So, I would change paragraph 4 to state that: "Immediate family members who are also naturalized citizens that are found guilty of having prior knowledge of a family member's terrorist intent would be stripped of their citizenship on their conviction and deported to their country of origin."

      This would preserve "due process" and still accomplish the intent of deporting families that are complicit in terrorist actions.

      March 10, 2011 at 10:07 am |
  18. Bob McCoy

    I don't believe perceptions of the American Islamic community could be any more distorted than they already are!

    March 9, 2011 at 2:30 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      @ Bob McCoy

      You say "distorted," others, increasingly, are saying "clarified."

      March 9, 2011 at 3:33 pm |
    • False Reality

      and the "others" saying clarified are simply bigots..who cares what they think?

      March 10, 2011 at 9:00 pm |
  19. pat robertson

    I think it is time for people to educate themselves, all religions are far fetched tall tales.

    March 9, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Not mine .. mine is correct ... I have a faith and am not in a religion. Mine is terrific. So whatever you have to say about the others may or may not be true, but I have the truth and it is good for me. (and I am the only one who needs to believe it) .. .

      March 10, 2011 at 1:27 am |
    • Peace2All


      Hello, my friend...-Right Turn ! How are you...? Hope that you are well !

      You Said: "Not mine ... mine is '(correct)' ... I have a '(faith)' and am not in a religion. So whatever you have to say about the others may or may not be true, but I have the '(truth)' and it is good for me. (and I am the only one who needs to '(believe)' it)."

      I'm curious -Clyde... How do you 'know' your's is 'correct' absolutely...? How do you 'know' that 'you' have "the truth" absolutely...?

      Because you then go on to say..." I have 'faith'...and I'm the only one who needs to 'believe' it.

      Obviously, there is a kind of a mismatch here. On the one hand you seem to be claiming 'absolute objective TRUTH.' In other words... 'you' are the one who absolutely 'knows,' and yet, how can you... really...? By using the words I have a 'faith' ... and i 'believe' *infer* just that... that you have 'faith' and you 'believe' which is totally different from 'ABSOLUTE KNOWING, yes...?

      I mean I totally get that it may be your faith that is 'true for you.' However, you and I both know, that it is an infinite leap to claim 'absolute facts.'

      Again, I respect your beliefs... and obviously, you believe very, very strongly, but to say others may or may not be true, while putting yourself above the rest of humanity in the absolute KNOWING category, I think your are making 'claims' to the ultimate nature or 'the truth,' which is a bit (respectfully) short-sighted and closed-minded in my, humble opinion.

      And, yes, at the same time, I will concur that .... your 'faith' and 'beliefs' MAY in fact be 'the truth.' You 'may' be right... I will give you that.

      Again, I'm sincerely curious as to your thoughts on this. Thanks -Clyde.


      March 10, 2011 at 2:30 am |
  20. Reality

    Imam Rauf, what a joke this guy and his wife Daisy are as they continue to be Muslim evangelicals pulling down ~$400,000/yr spouting their support for a religion that dictates Islamic domination of the world by any means to include killing all infidels.

    March 9, 2011 at 12:59 pm |
    • Oh, I See.

      Well, Reality.. If you had two advanced degrees in Plasma Physics and still couldn't find a job, what's left for you to do?

      March 9, 2011 at 2:21 pm |
    • Reality

      Actually, I have three degrees, two of them advanced and am happily retired.

      March 9, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
    • Justina

      Reality, really? I thought you were an nerd of early twenties with only a high school diploma. Make your comments way shorter if you are an educated person. And write your own words; no one cares your meaningless lists except your kinds who refuse to think for themselves.

      March 9, 2011 at 9:32 pm |
    • Reality


      Keeping it simple just for you:

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.


      March 9, 2011 at 11:53 pm |
    • Justina

      Reality, atheists are the lonliest species in the universe and you are the lonliest atheist in existence still. I can imagine many Christians have been praying for your poor soul but you yourself must admit your own sin before your Creator God. Nothing and no one can save you from miserable yourself but Jesus Himself.

      March 10, 2011 at 5:00 am |
    • False Reality

      Doesn't sound any different than Evangelical preachers like Ted Haggart or Billy Graham to me...

      And Justina, as an Athiest I am perfectly content and happy with my life, then again I never was much for wanting an imaginary friend.

      March 10, 2011 at 8:57 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.