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Saving Thomas Jefferson's scrapbook Bible
Smithsonian paper conservator Janice Stagnitto Ellis displays the cover page from Thomas Jefferson's Bible.
March 11th, 2011
08:52 AM ET

Saving Thomas Jefferson's scrapbook Bible

By Sally Holland, CNN

Thomas Jefferson literally cut passages on the chronology and moral teachings of Jesus out of several Bibles and glued them into what historians have termed the Jefferson Bible.

The founding father completed the book that he called "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" during his retirement in 1820.

Conservationists at the National Museum of American History are currently working to preserve the almost-200-year-old book so it can go on display in November.

Paper conservator Janice Stagnitto Ellis said the main problem is the way the book was bound. Over time, the paper has become less flexible, and bending the brittle pages caused the paper to tear, she said.

"Without doing modifications to the binding, we could open the book [to] about a 30-degree angle before the paper would be required to bend, which it couldn't do," she said. "It became un-exhibitable."

The goal is to display the book opened to a 90-degree angle.

The 86-page book was bound in high-end red Moroccan leather with gold tooling. Inside, passages from the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in English, French, Latin and Greek are pasted side by side so Jefferson could compare the various translations of the story of the life of Jesus.

"He puts them in chronological order and ... extracts those parts that can be identified through reason and thought," museum curator Harry Rubenstein said. "So out goes the miracles, out goes the resurrections and what remains is what he thinks is the life and morals of Jesus, the true teachings."

Jefferson used six different "source" Bibles to create his version: two in English, two in French and two that included both Greek and Latin. He needed two of each so that if he cut a passage out of one side of a page, he would still have the back side of that page in case he wanted to include a passage from there.

A curator handles one of Jefferson's source Bibles.

The museum also has the two English "source" Bibles which show the cutout holes of the scripture Jefferson included in his version.

Jefferson also changed the grammar. On one page, he apparently didn't like the number of prepositions in a verse from Matthew that started, "For as in the days that were before the flood ..." He cut out the word "as," changing the scripture to "For in the days that were before the flood ..."

The Smithsonian acquired the book from Jefferson's great-granddaughter in 1895 for $400.

In 1904, Congress authorized printed photocopies of the book that were given to all of its incoming members. This practice ended in the 1950s when they ran out of copies.

Currently, preservationists have removed the binding for the Jefferson Bible and are doing digital scans of all of the pages of the book to be included as part of the display later this year.

They are looking at various ways to provide more flexibility in the binding.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church and state • DC • Politics • United States

soundoff (657 Responses)
  1. Muneef

    Al-Isra sura 17:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    We verily have displayed (Our warnings) in this Qur'an that they may take heed, but it increaseth them in naught save aversion. (41) Say (O Muhammad, to the disbelievers): If there were other gods along with Him, as they say, then had they sought a way against the Lord of the Throne. (42) Glorified is He, and High Exalted above what they say! (43) The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein praise Him, and there is not a thing but hymneth His praise; but ye understand not their praise. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving. (44) And when thou recitest the Qur'an we place between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter a hidden barrier; (45) And We place upon their hearts veils lest they should understand it, and in their ears a deafness; and when thou makest mention of thy Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn their backs in aversion. (46) We are best aware of what they wish to hear when they give ear to thee and when they take secret counsel, when the evil-doers say: Ye follow but a man bewitched. (47) See what similitudes they coin for thee, and thus are all astray, and cannot find a road! (48).

    Al-Mujadila sura 58:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Hast thou not seen that Allah knoweth all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth? There is no secret conference of three but He is their fourth, nor of five but He is their sixth, nor of less than that or more but He is with them wheresoever they may be; and afterward, on the Day of Resurrection, He will inform them of what they did. Lo! Allah is Knower of all things. (7).

    March 14, 2011 at 6:48 am |
  2. Muneef

    An-Nisa sura 04:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Then because of their breaking of their covenant, and their disbelieving in the revelations of Allah, and their slaying of the prophets wrongfully, and their saying: Our hearts are hardened – Nay, but Allah set a seal upon them for their disbelief, so that they believe not save a few – (155) And because of their disbelief and of their speaking against Mary a tremendous calumny; (156) And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain. (157) But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (158).

    March 14, 2011 at 6:15 am |
  3. bobby boy shay

    wait a minute, so the earth wasnt made 60000 years ago?

    March 14, 2011 at 5:21 am |
  4. T-party

    Jefferson was not religious he believed in low taxes,small government founding fathers are the original tea party..

    March 13, 2011 at 10:54 pm |
    • NL

      Nobody disputes that, but the real question is how much the modern 'tea party' is in line with the original movement.

      March 14, 2011 at 9:53 am |
    • Cal

      He also believed in a 100% estate tax, and thought that inherited wealth was one of the greatest threats to democracy. That's not what I'm hearing from today's tea partiers...

      March 19, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
  5. Muneef

    Do you know why exactly Muslims are hated for? It is for Reading & Reciting the Quran & follow its Religion of Islam which should have to take in to faith & Belief in the words of the following verses;    

    Al-Baqara sura 02:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    And they say: Allah hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth is His. All are subservient unto Him. (116) The Originator of the heavens and the earth! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. (117) And those who have no knowledge say: Why doth not Allah speak unto us, or some sign come unto us? Even thus, as they now speak, spake those (who were) before them. Their hearts are all alike. We have made clear the revelations for people who are sure. (118) Lo! We have sent thee (O Muhammad) with the truth, a bringer of glad tidings and a warner. And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire. (119) And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper. (120) Those unto whom We have given the Scripture, who read it with the right reading, those believe in it. And whoso disbelieveth in it, those are they who are the losers. (121) O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures. (122) And guard (yourselves) against a day when no soul will in aught avail another, nor will compensation be accepted from it, nor will intercession be of use to it; nor will they be helped. (123).

    An-Nisa sura 04:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    O mankind! The messenger hath come unto you with the Truth from your Lord. Therefor believe; (it is) better for you. But if ye disbelieve, still, lo! unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth. Allah is ever Knower, Wise. (170) O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" – Cease! (it is) better for you! – Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender. (171).

    Al-Maeda sura 05:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. (72) They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. (73) Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (74) The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away! (75) Say: Serve ye in place of Allah that which possesseth for you neither hurt nor use? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower. (76) Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other than the truth, and follow not the vain desires of folk who erred of old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road. (77).

    Al-Tawba sura 09:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger nor, acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (29) The Jews call Uzayr a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths; (in this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (30) They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; Yet they were commanded to worship but one Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to him: (far is He) from having the parents they associate (with him). (31) Fain would they extinguish Allah's light with their mouths but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the unbelievers may detest (it). (32) It is He who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and Religion of Truth to proclaim it over all religion, even though the pagans may detest (it). (33).

    Yunus sura 10:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    And thou (Muhammad) art not occupied with any business and thou recitest not a Lecture from this (Scripture), and ye (mankind) perform no act, but We are Witness of you when ye are engaged therein. And not an atom's weight in the earth or in the sky escapeth your Lord, nor what is less than that or greater than that, but it is (written) in a clear Book. (61) Lo! verily the friends of Allah are (those) on whom fear (cometh) not, nor do they grieve? (62) Those who believe and keep their duty (to Allah). (63) Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter – There is no changing the Words of Allah – that is the Supreme Triumph. (64) And let not their speech grieve thee (O Muhammad). Lo! power belongeth wholly to Allah. He is the Hearer, the Knower. (65) Beware ! To Allah belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and whosoever is in the earth Those who follow aught instead of Allah follow not (His) partners. They follow only a conjecture, and they do but guess. (66) He it is Who hath appointed for you the night that ye should rest therein and the day giving sight. Lo! herein verily are portents for a folk that heed. (67) They say: Allah hath taken (unto Him) a son – Glorified be He! He hath no needs! His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. Ye have no warrant for this. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not? (68) Say: Verily those who invent a lie concerning Allah will not succeed. (69) This world's portion (will be theirs), then unto Us is their return. Then We make them taste a dreadful doom because they used to disbelieve. (70).

    Al-Isra sura 17:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Say (unto mankind): Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names. And thou (Muhammad), be not loud-voiced in thy worship nor yet silent therein, but follow a way between. (110) And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence. (111).

    Al-Kahf sura 18:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Praise be to Allah Who hath revealed the Scripture unto His slave, and hath not placed therein any crookedness, (1) (But hath made it) straight, to give warning of stern punishment from Him, and to bring unto the believers who do good works the news that theirs will be a fair reward, (2) Wherein they will abide for ever; (3) And to warn those who say: Allah hath chosen a son, (4) (A thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. They speak naught but a lie. (5) Yet it may be, if they believe not in this statement, that thou (Muhammad) wilt torment thy soul with grief over their footsteps. (6) Lo! We have placed all that is in the earth as an ornament thereof that We may try them: which of them is best in conduct. (7) And lo! We shall make all that is therein a barren mound. (8).

    Maryam sura 19:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son. (88) Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing (89) Whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins, (90) That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son, (91) When it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should choose a son. (92) There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave. (93) Verily He knoweth them and numbereth them with (right) numbering. (94) And each one of them will come unto Him on the Day of Resurrection, alone. (95) Lo! those who believe and do good works, the Beneficent will appoint for them love. (96) And We make (this Scripture) easy in thy tongue, (O Muhammad) only that thou mayst bear good tidings therewith unto those who ward off (evil), and warn therewith the froward folk. (97) And how many a generation before them have We destroyed! Canst thou (Muhammad) see a single man of them, or hear from them the slightest sound? (98).

    Al-Anbiya sura 21:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    We created not the heaven and the earth and all that is between them in play. (16) If We had wished to find a pastime, We could have found it in Our presence – if We ever did. (17) Nay, but We hurl the true against the false, and it doth break its head and lo! it vanisheth. And yours will be woe for that which ye ascribe (unto Him). (18) Unto Him belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth. And those who dwell in His presence are not too proud to worship Him, nor do they weary; (19) They glorify (Him) night and day; they flag not. (20) Or have they chosen Gods from the earth who raise the dead? (21) If there were therein Gods beside Allah, then verily both (the heavens and the earth) had been disordered. Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Throne, from all that they ascribe (unto Him). (22) He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned. (23) Or have they chosen other gods beside Him? say: Bring your proof (of their godhead). This is the Reminder of those with me and those before me, but most of them know not the Truth and so they are averse. (24) And We sent no messenger before thee but We inspired him, (saying): There is no God save Me (Allah), so worship Me. (25) And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but (those whom they call sons) are honoured slaves; (26) They speak not until He hath spoken, and they act by His command. (27) He knoweth what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot intercede except for him whom He accepteth, and they quake for awe of Him. (28).

    Al-Furqan sura 25: 
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Blessed is He Who hath revealed unto His slave the Criterion (of right and wrong), that he may be a warner to the people. (1) He unto Whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, He hath chosen no son nor hath He any partner in the Sovereignty. He hath created everything and hath meted out for it a measure. (2) Yet they choose beside Him other gods who create naught but are themselves created, and possess not hurt nor profit for themselves, and possess not death nor life, nor power to raise the dead. (3) Those who disbelieve say: This is naught but a lie that he hath invented, and other folk have helped him with it, so that they have produced a slander and a lie. (4) And they say: Fables of the men of old which he hath had written down so that they are dictated to him morn and evening. (5) Say (unto them, O Muhammad): He who knoweth the secret of the heavens and the earth hath revealed it. Lo! He ever is Forgiving, Merciful. (6).

    As-Saaffat 37:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Now ask them (O Muhammad): Hath thy Lord daughters whereas they have sons? (149) Or created We the angels females while they were present? (150) Lo! it is of their falsehood that they say: (151) Allah hath begotten. Allah! verily they tell a lie. (152) (And again of their falsehood): He hath preferred daughters to sons. (153) What aileth you? How judge ye? (154) Will ye not then reflect? (155) Or have ye a clear warrant? (156) Then produce your writ, if ye are truthful. (157) And they imagine kinship between him and the jinn, whereas the jinn know well that they will be brought before (Him). (158) Glorified be Allah from that which they attribute (unto Him), (159).

    Az-Zumar sura 39:
    n the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created. Be He glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute. (4).

    Al-Jinn sura 72:
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Say (O Muhammad): It is revealed unto me that a company of the Jinn gave ear, and they said: Lo! we have heard a marvellous Qur'an, (1) Which guideth unto righteousness, so we believe in it and we ascribe unto our Lord no partner. (2) And (we believe) that He – exalted be the glory of our Lord! – hath taken neither wife nor son, (3) And that the foolish one among us used to speak concerning Allah an atrocious lie. (4) And lo! we had supposed that humankind and jinn would not speak a lie concerning Allah – (5).

    March 13, 2011 at 8:18 pm |
    • Muneef

      Among those above of idolators,pagans and non believers of God....what can you expect the followers of Islam of the Quran would be treated by the majority ?

      March 13, 2011 at 8:38 pm |
    • Eric G.

      Hello my friend! I am not sure what your question is. Can you clarify for me?

      March 13, 2011 at 10:20 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      If islam allows 10+ year old "ripe" girls to be married off then all muslims should seriously be considered to be probable child abusers.

      March 13, 2011 at 10:26 pm |
    • Observer

      @HotAirAce,

      If the actions of some are an indictment of all, then all Baptists must be treated like those from Westboro. Shocking lack of reasoning.

      March 13, 2011 at 11:10 pm |
    • Po

      Where Baptists are concerned, I'd say they are all worthy of suspi-cion at the very least.

      March 13, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
    • Po

      and I should add that we should treat everyone equally, correct? So treating everyone the same is more ethical, actually.

      March 13, 2011 at 11:22 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      @Observer

      Not faulty logic because the cult allows it therefore everyone can/may do it without any fear of criticism and are therefore possible child abuses. That child abuse is allowed makes the religion suspect, and anyone who actually does it should be considered a criminal, but the various other cults will not dare criticize each other lest the entire "house of cards" collapses.

      March 14, 2011 at 2:21 am |
  6. Muneef

    http://www.world-newspapers.com/

    March 13, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
  7. Muneef

    http://www.emirates247.com/news/world/did-supermoon-cause-the-tsunami-2011-03-12-1.367062

    March 13, 2011 at 11:33 am |
    • Muneef

      Al-Hajj sura 22:
      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      O mankind! Fear your Lord. Lo! the earthquake of the Hour (of Doom) is a tremendous thing. (1) On the day when ye behold it, every nursing mother will forget her nursling and every pregnant one will be delivered of her burden, and thou (Muhammad) wilt see mankind as drunken, yet they will not be drunken, but the Doom of Allah will be strong (upon them). (2) Among mankind is he who disputeth concerning Allah without knowledge, and followeth each froward devil; (3) For him it is decreed that whoso taketh him for friend, he verily will mislead him and will guide him to the punishment of the Flame. (4).

      Al-Zalzala sura 99:
      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      When Earth is shaken with her (final) earthquake (1) And Earth yieldeth up her burdens, (2) And man saith: What aileth her? (3) That day she will relate her chronicles, (4) Because thy Lord inspireth her. (5) That day mankind will issue forth in scattered groups to be shown their deeds. (6) And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then, (7) And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then. (8).

      March 13, 2011 at 11:43 am |
  8. Hogarth

    You don't have to be a gun!

    March 13, 2011 at 8:32 am |
  9. Achmed the non-terrorist

    What? I do not know how to spell my own name? What is this you are saying?
    If I spell it in Arabic it sounds the same but these English letters do not make the same sounds.
    It is similar for other languages that do not use phonetic spelling, like Chinese. They use symbols. If one of them is called Lee, he can spell it Li, Le, Lee, Lii, Lei, etc. when using English letters.
    I spell my name Achmed. It is easier for non-Arabic speaking peoples to see how to say it. This is okay for me.

    Even poor people can get an education if your government is willing, but many governments do not want their people to gain more knowledge. Educated people know too many things, like how little they really have, how bad things are, how dangerous it can be to be poor, how many things people need to grow healthy brains and bodies, etc.
    Governments prefer uneducated people who are poor because it is easier to rule them. They do not want to be overthrown by people who can see how badly they govern, how badly they rule, etc.
    No shame on you, yes. Your people had no money, no resources, no political power to make things better. It is not your fault.
    But your religion is being used against you. They shout "Allah" with evil in their hearts and fool you into doing foolish things that give them power and money.
    It is hard to make enough money to live on. If you are busy working you have no time to go to school, to learn how to make more money, or to do other things.
    Education should be free to everyone. Instead, religion is free. It is easier to get religious instruction than it is to get an education that will help you pull yourself out of poverty.
    I think that these things should be changed. Maybe you came here to read these words. If so, I am humbled that you even take the time to read them. Thank you.

    March 12, 2011 at 10:13 pm |
    • Achmed the non-terrorist

      Sorry, the post above was meant for Muneef.

      March 12, 2011 at 10:14 pm |
    • Muneef

      Achmed.
      You are right it is easier for non Arabic speaker to say Achmed than it is Ahmed.

      Education now is free and population now became much more educated and that's why we got all those revolts as a result, but those who deprived their populations from educations were not only religious governments but even secular governments did so.
      Religion being used against us does not mean religions are wrong but those on charge of ruling who were wrong and religion should not be blamed for it....religion has contributed much in educating us because from learning the Quran many became to read and write Arabic, beside that verses and the challenge within has made us read, think and observe creation with all that relates to it. My sons and daughters today have a better education than we had since there are much more choices such as private schools when we had learned in public schools... Today we can afford to send them to have further higher education overseas....having sent my son to Malaysia for further education but whether he would appreciate that and concentrate on his education or waste that in night clubs or discos only God knows...
      Any way thank you Achmed for your comments and I like how your name is pronounced...

      March 13, 2011 at 6:25 am |
  10. Evan

    Atheists claim "The G-d of the Bible cannot allow for free will". First off, because you are referring to "the G-d of the Bible", the Bible would then be considered legitimate (which it is, but that is another topic) in this argument.

    While, I admit, the Bible never flat-out says "G-d gives us free will", it drops many hints. In 1 Timothy 4:1, Paul says "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons". (Note: the Spirit means the "Holy Spirit", which is part of the Holy Trinity) Notice how in this passage it does not say "The Spirit causes...", only that "The Spirit says...". In other words, G-d does not force people to do things. Merely He knows they will do them. While He ultimately knows what we will do, as clearly stated here, we make the choice.

    It is true: G-d does have a plan for our lives, as the Scripture tells us. However, it is our decision on whether or not we want that plan to take affect.

    "So does that mean G-d is not all-powerful because He cannot force us to do His will?" The Parable of the Lost Son in Luke 15 indirectly answers this. In this story, a son (who represents us) lives a pretty good life with his dad (who represents G-d). However, the son does not want to stay with his dad, so he leaves him (which represents our rebellion against G-d). However, out in the "real world", the son loses everything (which represents our poverty in sin). He finally realizes how good his life was with his dad. So he returns home (which represents us turning back to faith). Now, the dad runs up and hugs his son (representing how happy G-d is when we return to Him, and how He forgives us). Now, in this story, it is clear the dad missed his son. However, why didn't the dad go out into the real world to look for his son? The son's rebelious nature answers that: if the dad pulled the son back to his house, the son would just run away again and want to return even less. Ultimately, if G-d forced us to come to Him, that would be taking away our free will, and would make us like Him even less. Basically, one of the things this story tells us it is our own decision whether or not we want to return to our dad (G-d).

    March 12, 2011 at 3:17 pm |
    • Magic

      Evan,

      I can't find the original post where a pertinent youtube series was suggested... it might have been a post from JohnR? You really might benefit from taking a good look at it - here's one to get you started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rP8ybp13s&feature=related

      March 12, 2011 at 4:14 pm |
    • Evan

      Magic, I was once an atheist, and I must say I could never have been more miserable. I thought "I work hard in life, work all day, have people I love, I do good things, I do bad things, I learn things, I forget things, I recieve things, and I give things, and after all that I end up in a wooden box six feet below the ground?" I realized that life without G-d is meaningless. I do not believe running away from G-d again will "benefit" me. I would rather die than give up on G-d.

      Atheism is not about discovering the universe through logic and reason. Atheism is not about proving religion false. Atheism is not about trying to ensure everyone lives a better life. Atheism is a concoction of human arrogance. Atheism is about trying to elevate men to the position of G-d.

      March 12, 2011 at 4:26 pm |
    • Magic

      Evan,

      It is not my desire to harm you. I wish you well.

      March 12, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
    • MrEO

      Evan – sorry to hear that you were miserable as an atheist. Modern society does not have much in the way of positive feedback for those who go against the religious grain, so negative feedback is more prevalent than not.

      But I don't think you understand the definition of "atheism". It is simply the lack of belief in the "supernatural". It is not a scientific field, it is not a "way of life" nor does this lack of belief provide a "holy text" by which we might order our lives.
      It's just a lack of religious belief. That's it. End of definition.

      So any negative feedback you get from the religious people around you is going to make you miserable unless you are prepared for it. You are providing quite a lot of this negative feedback to all of us who do not believe as you do. You are saying very negative and untrue things in your posts here.
      You are helping to make sure that I will never EVER be tempted to turn to your religion ever again. EVER.
      That this goes against the very bible you say you follow is ironic and pathetic and so predictable.

      p.s. Atheism is a lack of belief. That's it. It is NOT about "trying to elevate men to the position of God". Never was, never will be. You are so mistaken about all this stuff that I wonder if you are lying about having been an atheist. But maybe you were the sort of idiot about not believing in the same way that you are being an idiot about your christianity.
      You are hateful against atheists. You are not God, and you are commanded to love us...so why do you insist on being arrogant, snide, hypocritical, etc. to those who do not share your faith?
      You're just driving people away, Evan. Is that what Jesus told you to do? Pi-ss people off and make sure no one sits next to you in church? That's what so many of your fellow christians and muslims do to people like me.
      I will never join you in your delusion. Doubly so with your nastiness and lies.

      March 12, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
    • Don

      Evan, the only time you were an atheist was before your parents indoctrinated you to believe that there is a god. So please: don't lie to us.

      March 13, 2011 at 10:21 am |
    • Evan

      Don, I'm not lying, my friend. I didn't always believe in G-d. I was not born into a Christian family in a Christian setting. However, even though I temporarily gave up on G-d, He never gave up on me.

      March 13, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
  11. Steve

    To all fellow humans. It's painfully obvious that reason and logic have no impact on those who choose faith as their guide. Faith is not a path to truth. Throughout this post we've seen all manner of TAG (Kalam's Cosmological Argument, Argument from Design, Argument from Complexity, Argument from Morality, Logical Absolutes...etc.) every one of which has been thoroughly refuted and at best would indicate only an extremely unlikely yet possible indifferent deist creator who set things in motion. Such a creator is not the personalized one held by believers in this forum and cannot be arrived at using said arguments due to contradiction with scripture.
    For those that argue that you cannot get something from nothing I urge you to google the video "A Universe from Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss.
    Also on the topic of morality check out the lecture by Matt Dillahunty on "The Superiority of Secular Morality.
    And although I could list many other resources like Dawkins, Dennet, Hitchens, Harris etc. most of us are familiar with their work and would in any case be anathema to the faithful. Instead perhaps believers would be better served by youtuber Evid3nc3 video series detailing his own personal deconversion from christianity to atheism that in many ways mirrors my own experience. It's a poignant, respectful and informative examination of nearly all the points discussed in this post without all the insult flinging.

    Peace

    March 12, 2011 at 12:48 pm |
    • JohnR

      Yes, it is well worth emphasizing that the abstract arguments for recognizing a god as the "uncaused cause" of the universe cannot be used to defend the notion of a personal god, let alone the specific conception of god and his supposed take on human beliefs that Christians believe in. Indeed, the "god' whose existence these arguments purport to prove is probably not even consistent with the the god Christians imagine rules the world like the neolithic city-state despot that he was no doubt originally inspired by.

      March 12, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
    • Evan

      "It's painfully obvious that reason and logic have no impact on those who choose faith as their guide".

      Have you read anything I posted? There is clear logic and reason behind G-d's existence. Atheism is trying to attack the source of reason and logic with reason and logic.

      "Throughout this post we've seen all manner of TAG (Kalam's Cosmological Argument, Argument from Design, Argument from Complexity, Argument from Morality, Logical Absolutes...etc.) every one of which has been thoroughly refuted".

      I don't remember anyone "disproving" the Kalam argument. It is quite clear infinity cannot exist in the real world. Nobody has "disproven" the argument for design. You atheists are clearly being bias when you say "The real world isn't like the watch in the forrest". Nobody has "disproven" the argument for complexity. If the universe wasn't exactly like it is now, it would have collapsed on itself and would not even exist. In other words, there was no time for "trial and error". An intelligent being had to have set this parameters or else the universe could not exist. Nobody has disproven the argument for morality. You atheists say "There is no right or wrong". Ok, so if I pour boiling water on a puppies head (please forgive me if this image disturbs you), are you really going to be saying the same thing? Besides, when you atheists say "There is so much evil in the world", you are acknowledging there is right and wrong? You then say "We decide what is right or wrong", that means I can pour boiling water on a puppy's head if I feel it is the right thing to do? If I held a boiling pot of water over your head, you couldn't tell me to stop, because what if I thought it was right? You then say "Society decides what is right or wrong", so Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi, Jesus Christ, etc. were the most evil people who ever walked the earth because they rebelled against society? So what the Nazi's did was "right for them" because it was the law in Germany? If there was a law passed that said "All left-handed people are to be put to death", I would be evil simply because the law says I am? Besides, morality is the way things are supposed to be, not necessarily the way things are. Everyone in society could do something and it would still be wrong (slavery, for example). Morals are objective. If you say they are not, ultimately, you cannot live consistently by that logic.

      "Such a creator is not the personalized one held by believers in this forum and cannot be arrived at using said arguments due to contradiction with scripture".

      Who told you that? What makes you think that? It takes more than just words to win and argument, my friend.

      The Bible does not actually contradict itself. While there are difficult verses (such as "eye for eye, tooth for tooth" and "turn the other cheek"), in context, they do not contradict (with that case, Moses was setting up punishment in court, while Jesus was telling how individuals should live). This indicates you have not read the Bible, which makes it hard to take your arguments seriously.

      "For those that argue that you cannot get something from nothing I urge you to google the video "A Universe from Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss".

      Yep, because Youtube videos are the most reliable source in the world...

      Also, I disagree with the man. First off, if the creation story is undeniably disproved (which is has yet to be), Christianity does not fall. Christianity is not based on the creation story. Second, my uncle, who is studying to be a Christian pastor, says that what Genesis means is more important than what it says. Basically, the creaiton story says "G-d created everything. Man had everything good until they choose to disobey G-d".

      Thirdly, the universe could not have come from nothing. If there was truly "nothing", nothing could have come from it. If something did come from nothing, that means someone powerful (the creator we call G-d) must have created it. Ultimately, this man does nothing but hurt atheism by showing the need for a creator.

      "Also on the topic of morality check out the lecture by Matt Dillahunty on "The Superiority of Secular Morality".

      Again, you atheists claim this is the truth, but you cannot live by it. Morals are objective.

      "Well, what about when morals contradict?" When there is a disagreement over morals, it really isn't a disagreement over morals at all. It is a disagree over details. Hindus, for example, believe eating a cow is immoral because cows are holy. Christians do admit that using something holy for our own benefit is immoral. However, we do not agree that cows are holy. With abortion, for example, the anti-abortion group says "Killing an innocent human being is wrong". The pro-abortion group does agree; killing an innocent human being is wrong. However, the pro-abortion group does not agree that unborn children are human beings.

      While atheists may deny morals are objective, ultimately, they cannot live consistently by this theory, proving that it is not the way things are.

      "And although I could list many other resources like Dawkins, Dennet, Hitchens, Harris etc."

      I certainly do respect these people. They are certainly very intelligent men. However, they are men. Men are flawed, imperfect. They are not all-knowing. To say we have an exhaustive knowledge is quite arrogant. Also, to say we have an exhaustive knowledge of the way things work is to say we are all-knowing, a quality possessed only by the being you are trying to disprove! Ultimately, atheism is not about trying to prove that G-d doesn't exist, it is about trying to elevate men to the postion of G-d, which is arrogant.

      "...video series detailing his own personal deconversion from christianity to atheism that in many ways mirrors my own experience".

      C.S. Lewis, one of the greatest Christian apologists, was once an atheist. However, upon trying to disprove the existence of G-d, he realized that the facts only lead him back to G-d. I was once an atheist. Sure I wasn't a "die-hard" atheist, but I did ultimately believe religion accomplished nothing. However, I openned my eyes and clearly saw that was not true. Many others share the same experience.

      Anyway, just because one person turned from Christianity to atheism doesn't mean they did the right thing (again, there you atheists go trying to elevate men to the position of G-d by saying that all we do is right). Also, the Bible says that one who "turns away from Christianity" was never a Christian in the first place.

      Atheists claim that "Atheism is trying to explain the way the universe works using science and reason" or "Atheism is about proving that religion gets humanity no where". However, it is clear that atheism is not a view of humility, like you claim, but a view of extreme arrogance. Atheism is clearly all about trying to elevate men to the position of G-d.

      March 12, 2011 at 3:55 pm |
    • Q

      Evan – The argument from design may rest comfortably as a philosophical first cause position beyond the touch of modern science, however, the actual proponents of "intelligent design" have failed to provide anything resembling a testable hypothesis. Like their literal creationist forebearers, they have failed to provide any supportive physical evidence (given their proposed mechanism is magic) and cannot distinguish between "actual design" and "apparent design". As philosophy, intelligent design can safely occupy the same space as "flying spaghetti monsterism", but as science, it remains a complete failure. Apophenia is not evidence.

      March 12, 2011 at 11:44 pm |
    • Don

      Evan, Kalam is easily dismissed by noting, as Kant did, that all cosmological arguments rest upon the ontological argument. And the ontological argument is essentially "god exists because I say so", which is dismissed because it's mere assertion.

      And yes: the bible contradicts itself.

      March 13, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • Evan

      Picture the universe this way: you have some dominos set up to knock each other over. However, none of these dominos would have fallen over unless somebody pushed them. An atheist will at this point say "cause and effect work in a circle". Maybe it does, but that fails to explain how the cause and effect chain got started. They will then say "cause and effect are infinitely complex". Taking the discussion to infinity doesn't really do anything; it still fails to explain how the dominos started falling.

      Also, by saying that the universe has always existed, you are being anti-science, my friend. You are contradicting the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which states that eventually the universe will loose all of its energy. If the universe has always existed, wouldn't it have lost all of its energy by now?

      Atheists, I want to clarify I do not hate you. I respect your opinion, but I just disagree. Please note that I am in no way trying to attack you, just your arguments. If I have somehow hurt anyone's feelings, I am sorry.

      March 13, 2011 at 10:47 pm |
    • Q

      Evan – You're confusing energy and entropy. Energy can exist within matter itself. Regardless of what you believe you understand of the science of cosmological beginnings (which I confess, I know relatively little myself), inserting a deity into any knowledge gap does not const-itute an exercise in logic.

      March 14, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Evan

      "You're confusing energy and entropy."

      I knew you would say that, my friend. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says the universe will evertually loose all of its energy. It has not losed all of its energy yet, implying that it is not eternal.

      March 16, 2011 at 12:18 am |
  12. Reality

    What might T. Jefferson do/say in the 21st century?

    Instead of any future hearings on the radicalization of Abrahamic religions, he might note the following?:

    There never was and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam

    There was and never will be any bodily resurrections i.e. No Easter, no Christianity

    Abraham and Moses never existed.

    Added details upon request.

    And then there is this for the crybaby politicians and clerics:

    Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity by the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" will converge these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

    Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples or synagogues.

    March 12, 2011 at 7:03 am |
    • HeavenSent

      He'd say the same as above, plus, what a wasted, bitter, human you turned out to be. Hey R, are you running for position of the almighty, that everyone should believe you know everything for knowing nothing!

      March 12, 2011 at 8:53 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Oh, that's right. R's parents brought him up learning Jesus' truth. Because R has a bug up his butt, turning away from Jesus, he now insists everyone shouldn't learn what his parents taught him. Yes, you are not only flawed in your thinking, you haven't figured out the entire picture to make any of your claims. But, your ego will continuing stroking you that you are right, for being so dumb.

      March 12, 2011 at 8:57 am |
    • Observer

      Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant, inquisitive man. The theory of evolution didn't exist in his time. With the tremendous advances in science, geology, astronomy, biology,and other sciences since his time, it's highly unlikely that Jefferson would be even as religious today as he was then.

      March 12, 2011 at 9:12 am |
    • Reality

      HeavenSent et al,

      As noted many times before, from the ancients e.g. The Code of Hammurabi, The Egyptian Book of the Dead

      an excerpt:

      "Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .
      I have not rev-iled the God.
      I have not laid vi-olent hands on an o-rphan.
      I have not done what the God abo-minates . . .
      I have not kil-led; I have not turned anyone over to a kil-ler.
      I have not caused anyone's suffering . . .
      I have not cop-ulated (illicitly); I have not been unch-aste.
      I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
      I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
      I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage...
      I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
      I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
      I have not kept cattle away from the God's property.
      I have not blocked the God at his processions. "

      "The Book of the Dead was written circa 1800 BCE. 2 The Schofield Reference Bible estimates that the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt and the provision of the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai occurred in 1491 BCE., some three centuries later. Many religious liberals, historians, and secularists have concluded that the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments were based on this earlier docu-ment, rather than vice-versa."

      March 12, 2011 at 9:25 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Reality, watch that Nimrod and his wife.

      March 12, 2011 at 5:45 pm |
  13. Reality

    What might T. Jefferson do/say in the 21st century?

    Instead of any future hearings on the radicalization of Abrahamic religions, he might not the following?:

    There never was and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam

    There was and never will be any bodily resurrections i.e. No Easter, no Christianity

    Abraham and Moses never existed.

    Added details upon request.

    And then there is this for the crybaby politicians and clerics:

    Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity by the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" will converge these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

    Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples or synagogues.

    March 12, 2011 at 7:02 am |
    • HeavenSent

      He'd probably say what a disgrace he knows you to be.

      March 12, 2011 at 8:50 am |
    • Reality

      HeavenSent are you mentally challenged?

      March 12, 2011 at 3:30 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Reality, I'm beginning to think you are!

      March 12, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      heavensent..Rather than just a personal attack, why not give us some proof of the reasons that Reallity in incorrect..

      March 12, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
  14. Robert

    I wonder if my comment is "awaiting moderation" because I didn't just shoot off a zippy one liner.

    March 12, 2011 at 2:09 am |
  15. common sense citizen

    Can any Christian come up with 1 archaeological discovery that proves that anything in the bible is true, without making something up or using what someone else made up or a religious rant. So many of you say the bible is truth so that means there would be proof. No scientist, archaeologist or no astronomer can verify any kind of authenticity, though some have disproven certain parts.

    March 12, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • Justina

      You are just jealous that we don't have any proof. God will show us Jesus coming. That's why women love Jesus.
      Because he is coming.

      March 12, 2011 at 12:51 am |
    • Observer

      "You are just jealous that we don't have any proof."

      It doesn't get much funnier than that.

      March 12, 2011 at 1:17 am |
    • Justina (Christian)

      This Justina is a fake, too.

      March 12, 2011 at 2:47 am |
    • Justina (Christian)

      @C-s-c, no knowledge field disproved anything of the Bible, not especially archaeology. Every knid of and all related discoveries only proved the Bible has been right all along.

      March 12, 2011 at 2:51 am |
    • Q

      "Every knid of and all related discoveries only proved the Bible has been right all along." Right....That's why oil/mineral companies use creationist "flood geology" to locate reserves. And that's why modern agriculture uses the "Biblical genetics" described in Genesis 30:37-39 to produce desired livestock traits. And that's why modern conservation biology attempts to reduce populations to only a single male and a single female to ensure their long term genetic viability. And that's why pharmaceutical companies use prayer to develop therapies to heal the sick. Etc, etc...

      March 12, 2011 at 3:04 am |
    • Justina (Christian)

      @Q: The Bible is not about fufilling mankind's exploitation of planet earth. Genesis 30 is about God's supernatural intervention when you are misused by people; nothing to be applied to agriculture. Prayer works in healing; it's common though that's not prayers' primary purpose. The Bible mainly guides us in spiritual matters, though it's never wrong in describing any other matters and in fact completely inspiring in all subjects.

      March 12, 2011 at 3:38 am |
    • Justina (Christian)

      This Justina(Christian) is a fake too.

      March 12, 2011 at 4:32 am |
    • HeavenSent

      I posted what you're looking for in other articles. Time to do some homework and go look for what was posted. Other than that, the mod squadders won't let me post it again. Always controlling what knowledge you can and cannot obtain.

      March 12, 2011 at 8:39 am |
    • Observer

      Who is "Always controlling what knowledge you can and cannot obtain."? Paranoia?

      March 12, 2011 at 8:48 am |
    • common sense citizen

      O.K. Justina tell what archaeologist discovery anywhere in the world proves the bible is fact? Just one that isn't another text written by men.

      March 12, 2011 at 12:48 pm |
    • Magic

      There are *some* historical facts and some verified geographical locations which are reported in the Bible. So what? Harry Potter books mention many locations in the UK - does that make all the supersti.tions and magic true too?

      March 12, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • Q

      Justina- Again, you are simply wrong. The bible conflicts with some of the most basic discoveries of the scientific era. The bible is factually incorrect in describing how livestock obtain their appearance. The bible is factually incorrect regarding the ability of extremely small populations to survive and repopulate the earth (and then successfully hyper-evolve to account for modern biodiversity). Modern geology and the industries which use this science (i.e. oil, mineral, etc) successfully apply and predict using mainstream science whereas "flood geology" as described in Genesis is again, factually incorrect. Furthermore, prayer does not heal. You can look to the scientific literature or the deaths of numerous children whose parents believed their faith was more powerful than insulin or antibiotics (they were wrong, just like you are now).

      The bible is wrong over and over again and while some claim to find spiritual guidance, they apparently don't mind worshiping a deity who demands children and infants be slaughtered. They worship the biblical deity like an Auschwitz guard follows orders, i.e. out a twisted mix of fear and a false sense of empowerment in a-sserting their (magical, spiritual) superiority.

      March 12, 2011 at 1:00 pm |
    • Humoring them fundies

      Q – you are correct. Those are excellent points. Of course Justina cannot face the truth as it conflicts with her delusions, so you are wasting your time trying to make her use her brain – it's been washed and dyed with blathering nonsense.

      March 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Here's a simple one for you Proverbs 6:6-8.

      March 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      heaven sent...You know the bible was written by an atheist 2000 years ago as an experiment to study gullibility .. and it appears to be very successful.

      March 12, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Heavensent.. see Ezekeil 6-4 to 9.. you are getting into a very abusive relationship...For gods sake and yours don't turn on American idol

      March 12, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
    • Justina (the genuine Christian one)

      @Common-sense-citizen, did you finish grade 8? You are talking about massive field of 4,000 years in three continents. Tell me any place that the text of the Bible contradicts a single archaeological finding. There is none.
      @Q, you are talking about unproven theories again. The Genesis record is correct and in accordance with possible facts found throught the world. There are countless incidents prayer worked against medical odds, though normal Christians do not ignore using insulins and antibiotics. It's barbaric humans who slaughter babies and children, both born and unborn. God takes care of innocent children, but wipes out certain civilizations by water, fire, or wars to protect others and the future generations, since He is the righteous Creator. Nazis was Darwinian just like you and they were destroyed by the Christian USA.

      March 13, 2011 at 4:51 am |
    • Observer

      Justina (the genuine Christian one),

      Speaking of 8th grade, do you know that carbon dating of archeological finds show that animals have existed millions of years as opposed the Bible version of a few thousand? Do you know that Hitler was raised as a Catholic and believed in God? Just wondering.

      March 13, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • Magic

      Justina,

      "Tell me any place that the text of the Bible contradicts a single archaeological finding."

      Even if that is true (?), so what? It does not prove a single thing about any of the claims of supernatural beings and other wild fantasies.

      March 13, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • Magic

      p.s:. For one, there is no archeological or any other type of hard evidence for the Bible's worldwide flood.

      I would post more, but thou hath commanded short 'letters', oh, most imperious, controlling one.

      March 13, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • Justina

      @Observer, that carbon dating method cannot tell more than a few thousand years; you've hearing scientists' sci-fi fantasies for all these years.
      @Magic, you are free to cling to your foolish imaginations which are contrary to the obvious and scientific evidences that there is the Creator God. Only to your eternal loss.

      March 13, 2011 at 9:47 pm |
    • Observer

      Justina,

      Please list your background to show that you know more that the scientists that do carbon dating.

      March 13, 2011 at 9:50 pm |
    • Q

      Justina- It's very clear you lack the most basic science background to even begin discussing what is and what isn't a "proven" scientific theory. Still, I challenge you to identify a single commercial oil/mineral company which employees "flood geology" to identify reserves. I understand I shouldn't expect a rational response, but still, I always find it amusing how theists like yourself justify your deity which first commanded not to murder, then turned around and said, well, ok, go ahead and murder these children and infants. Again, I know it's not your habit to actually think these things through given too much thinking might undermine your delusion that you're going to live forever because you believed the correct type of magic...

      March 14, 2011 at 12:24 am |
  16. Ruben

    Birdman- you sure about that, you better check around a little before you go making statments like that. I'll pry for you to find faith and accept Jesus in your life and be saved by god. Your welcome:)

    March 11, 2011 at 11:42 pm |
    • Medardus

      Hi Ruben,

      I'll think for you. You're welcome.

      March 12, 2011 at 12:09 am |
    • Justina

      Medardus, could you think for me too? I'm too stupid. I think nothing is true because there is no proof of nothing.
      Everyone is wrong and I am right! No one knows me but Jesus! Jesus slicked down with massage oil! Amen!

      March 12, 2011 at 12:54 am |
    • Justina (Christian)

      The above Justina is a fake.

      March 12, 2011 at 2:47 am |
    • myke

      why is the above justina fake? because you have never met, seen or talked to her? so does that make god fake as well?

      March 13, 2011 at 11:20 am |
    • Magic

      myke,

      Someone else keeps coming in and posting under Justina's name (sometimes sort of funny, but really it's mighty dirty pool) - that's the "fake" one that they are referring to.

      March 13, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
  17. Iqbal Khan

    To become a Human being....Read...Read...Read

    http://www.mlivo.com/translations/Shabbir%20Ahmed.htm

    March 11, 2011 at 11:31 pm |
    • NL

      But not just from one book, right?

      March 12, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
  18. Les B_

    When it goes on display I hope there are safeguards against vandalism by evangelicals.

    March 11, 2011 at 10:00 pm |
    • Humoring them fundies

      It's not just evangelists, it's fundamentalists and anyone who worships the Bible. Those are the ones who will cause trouble.
      When you worship something made by human beings, you have lost your wits and have left the path of wisdom.

      March 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm |
  19. Nicole

    he obviously didn't read it!

    March 11, 2011 at 9:55 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      It's obvious, you didn't read the Bible. Stroke that sin of yours while you can Nicole, you'll understand truth when you meet Him.

      March 12, 2011 at 7:25 am |
    • Jamal

      Yeah! Stroke that sin, girl! Uh huh! Yeah! Stroke it! Yeah!

      March 13, 2011 at 8:04 am |
    • myke

      I hope I don't go blind from stroking MY sin! 😉

      March 13, 2011 at 11:22 am |
  20. birdman

    Faith is a disease. God never existed. Nothing happens when you die. Deal with it.

    March 11, 2011 at 9:44 pm |
    • SickToDeath

      Amen. 🙂

      March 11, 2011 at 9:53 pm |
    • jimmy bones

      You should post this in the 700 club website, bring some truth to Pat Robertson's flock.

      March 11, 2011 at 10:33 pm |
    • Robert

      Hope you're sure about that, or you may be in for a rude awakening.

      March 12, 2011 at 2:02 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Actually, the disease is your sinful behavior.

      March 12, 2011 at 7:23 am |
    • Humoring them fundies

      Ain't they cute? Awww, they're using cute meaningless words like "sin" again! Awww!

      March 12, 2011 at 5:22 pm |
    • MrEO

      Faith is just a word used by the mentally ill to describe their particular form of delusional schizophrenia. Psychologists have different words for it. Scientific words. The sort that religious people run away from and avoid like crazy. lol

      March 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
    • Tommas

      If your sky fairy really needs pink monkeys worshiping him on a tiny spec of rock spinning through one of the billions of galaxies he really is quite petty and I wouldn't follow him even if I was sure he was real. "rude awakening", yeah when I get to your heaven and "god" asks why I didn't worship him and I just laugh.

      March 13, 2011 at 4:14 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.