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March 21st, 2011
01:16 PM ET

UK cleric leaves mosque over evolution

By Andrew Carey, CNN

London (CNN) - Usama Hasan has led Friday prayers at Leyton mosque in East London for 20 years.

Back in the early 1990s, his sympathies lay with what became known as the global jihad and he was an active supporter of extremist causes.

Over time, however, he warmed to Britain and started questioning the idea that the West was always acting against Muslim interests.

Now, his message is different. In recent years he has used his position as an imam to tackle issues like terrorism head-on.

But it’s his views on Darwinian evolution that have landed him in trouble with some fellow Muslims. It’s been two months now since he says criticism over his support for the theory of evolution provoked him to stop leading Friday prayers at his congregation.

Besides being a religious scholar, Hasan is a scientist who has studied theoretical physics at Cambridge and who is a senior lecturer in engineering at Middlesex University.

Two and a half years ago he wrote an online article decrying what he called the "appalling state of science in the Muslim consciousness."

He described the belief that Adam was made from clay, as the Quran suggests, and then made a living human after God breathed life into him, as a "children's madrassa-level understanding" of the origins of man.

The remarks prompted some in the community to turn against him.

“People weren't reasoning with me,” he says, “rather, they would say, ‘you're no longer a Muslim, you're an apostate, you're an infidel.’”

According to Hasan, his opponents started seeking fatwas, or religious rulings, from clerics overseas to denounce his support for evolution and, he says, to declare a death sentence.

Hasan says that clerics in Pakistan, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia issued such decrees.

Leaflets started appearing at the mosque calling for Hasan’s removal and making thinly veiled suggestions that his "apostasy" might ultimately sanction his execution.

A public meeting aimed at calming the situation only increased tensions. Recently, Hasan says he started fearing for his life.

“Given the fact we have many young Muslims in this country who have taken law into their own hands, with terrorist plots, with a plot to murder an MP last year, I do feel that somebody young and impressionable may feel it their religious duty to kill me,” he told CNN.

Last November, London student Roshanara Choudry was found guilty of trying to kill Stephen Timms, a member of parliament, by stabbing him with a knife. It emerged during her trial that she had been influenced by extremist Muslim clerics online, including the U.S.-born preacher Anwar al-Awlaki.

Police confirmed to CNN they are investigating alleged threats against Hasan.

But recent weeks have seen campaigns launched by fellow Muslims to support Hasan.

Tehmina Kazi of the group British Muslims for Secular Democracy started a Facebook group that garnered eight hundred members in its first 24 hours.

And a senior group of Muslim clerics and activists signed a letter to the Guardian newspaper decrying Hasan’s treatment.

One of the signatories, Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, told CNN he was very worried at how the practice of "takfir" - declaring individual Muslims to be apostates - had taken hold in some elements of the British Muslim community.

“There have been volumes and volumes written to regulate this kind of behavior,” Mogra said. “It's not for any Muslim to go about and declare (an apostate) ... judgment is for God.”

Earlier this month, Hasan issued a statement on his website dialing back some of his statements on evolution.

"I regret and retract some of my statements in the past about the theory of evolution, especially the inflammatory ones … I do not believe that Adam, peace be upon him, had parents," he wrote.

"Some of the things I said in public went too far, and without meaning to, had been quite inflammatory,” he told CNN.

“What I would like to point out now is that religious scholars, in the main, are opposed to evolution, they believe it is blasphemy, it is against the Quran," he said. "Whereas scientists say that evolution is a scientific fact, or a scientific theory with overwhelming evidence."

"There exists this gulf, this impasse," Hasan continued. "And at some point people may have to address that issue, but only when the community and the religious scholars are ready.”

Mogra, who does not share Hasan’s previous position on evolution but supports his right to discuss it, is worried about the debate.

“This is a critical issue for us - if we fall at this hurdle then who's next tomorrow?" Mogra said. "If we are going to allow ourselves to be intimidated like this and publicly retract and say things we don't actually believe in, then that would be a great disaster for Muslim scholarship and for the freedom that we enjoy in this country.”

Hasan says that he hopes the current tensions dissipate and that he can return to what he calls his favorite mosque in London to join in prayers.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Britain • Culture & Science • Culture wars • Europe • Islam • Muslim

soundoff (288 Responses)
  1. Haaaaaaaha

    Is this a case for education defeating extremism or.... nope, nope I'm American and we hate educating children. Sorry, I spoke too soon.

    March 21, 2011 at 11:24 pm |
  2. MrEee

    Bit of irony that a guy who was preaching for jihad starts using his mind, questioning the world, how it works, whether Allah literally breathed life into clay – and now has radicals with his own old ideologies calling for his death. Sad, certainly illustrates the problems with the 'if you question a word in this text you're an infidel' issue the Koran has, but it still gets a half-chuckle. Good luck to him trying to use reason on the religious masses.

    March 21, 2011 at 11:23 pm |
  3. TheRationale

    Whether these professionally ignorant theists accept evolution or not has no bearing on the fact that it's true. It's just sad at this point. Religion is such a sickness.

    March 21, 2011 at 9:56 pm |
  4. T-party

    as an educated agnostic I have studied evolution,natural selection,fossil fuels,organic fossils,mid oceanic ridges,plate tech-tonics,erosion escarpments. I have learned earth is billions of years old. I still can not proof that God dose or dose not exist.....nor do I really want to.

    March 21, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • AncientLie

      I consider myself an agnostic by definition also. The real question, the one self proclaimed agnostics fail to address or answer is, "do you BELIEVE in a God." If you answer yes then you are a theist, if you answer no then YOU ARE AN ATHEIST, whether you wanna admit it or not. There is no third answer to this question.

      March 21, 2011 at 10:10 pm |
    • LouAZ

      AncientLie – there is a third answer – Republican !

      March 22, 2011 at 12:08 am |
    • Mr. Sniffles

      Yes, Lou, but it's always a really bad answer!

      March 22, 2011 at 1:01 am |
  5. wayne

    "Atheists have the BURDEN OF PROOF that all this came out of thin air. Afterall, they deny anybody created the universe."

    No competent atheist claim that existence came out of thin air. And we are right to claim nobody created the universe because nobody was around at the beginning. I know there is the a reason the universe exists, i fully reject religions claim as to what that is, because it's silly childish nonsense.,

    March 21, 2011 at 6:30 pm |
    • T-party

      wayne ...no competent fundies can prove God came out of thin air.....

      March 21, 2011 at 9:17 pm |
  6. blessedgeek

    I believe in Allah and Charles Darwin his Imam.

    March 21, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
    • jedi

      LOL. Thats a good one 😀

      March 21, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
  7. bp

    @ Hussein I think I need to clarify, in no way am I trying to ridicule your faith in a higher being. All I am attempting to do is to get you to correctly see things from our point of view and make you think a little bit outside of religion.

    One you say the burden of proove is on non believers to proove god does not exist. This simply is not true. Allow me to explain:

    One day in the future I discover something that has never been thought of before, in fact I have to even assign a word and meaning to this discovery because its so new. Now I come to you and tell you what I have discovered. Now why would you believe me? Youd probably say show me proof. So I would go about showing you my proof and arguments until you either accepted what I was showing you or until you found a flaw with my evidence.

    On the other hand what if I never discovered this new thing? How would I go about disproving it to you? No one even knows it ever existed so nobody would ever ask to proove it doesn't exist.

    Religious people call this "discovery' god but fail to proove it existence. We don't have to prove anything on our end, our jobs simply to point out whats wrong with your evidence until you manage to show us something irrefutable like 2+2 =4

    March 21, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
  8. (B)iraq Hussein Osama

    SCIENCE belongs to God. God created science.
    Atheists and other Godless Lunatics are welcome to try to WRESTLE science from religious people and pretend that science and God are at odds with each other!

    NOT IN ISLAM! In Islam, science and God are in unison. Scientific inquiry ultimately leads to closeness and recognition of God.

    March 21, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
    • bp

      Im glad you feel that science and Islam go together but if thats the case why is this Islamic preachers in this article reciveing death threats then for saying evolution and Islam are compatiable? I contend that your an exception within Islam that agrees with this preacher, but the majority of the Islamic community would disagree with you

      March 21, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
    • Nonimus

      If that is the case, then I'm surprised you aren't encouraging people, atheists especially, to keep looking at science and keep researching as it will, according to your belief, lead them to God/Allah eventually.

      March 22, 2011 at 9:44 am |
  9. jedi

    (B)iraq Hussein Osama if your Quran have all the answer than answer this paradox: When is the "Beginning" (Not since the universe created but before the big bang) and the end (Not the end of the Universe or the world) of time? And tell me what is god?

    March 21, 2011 at 5:23 pm |
    • (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      @jedi
      If the Qur'an makes no mention of the big bang or the small bang, it is of no concern. The Qur'an is not a book of Science. It is a book of spiritual advices to mankind. The fact that man discovers new things about the universe everyday is GOOD!! Excellent, Islam encourages science and scientific inquiry. CARRY ON!!

      Who knows, perhaps God inspires men and reveals to them more and more about the universe, Newton, Gallileo, Einstein and so on and so forth. Whoever, tries to unearth the secrets of the universe, surely God guides them in the right direction. God is afterall THE ULITMATE SCIENTIST!! Why would He not take great pleasure in those who try to unlock His secrets. He would surely be joyed everytime someone discovers something new about HIS CREATION.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • jedi

      (Bi)iraq Hussein Osama
      "If the Qur'an makes no mention of the big bang or the small bang, it is of no concern. The Qur'an is not a book of Science. It is a book of spiritual advices to mankind. The fact that man discovers new things about the universe everyday is GOOD!! Excellent, Islam encourages science and scientific inquiry. "

      It is unfortunate that you let it take over your conscience and now you're telling us that quran is not the book of science which contradict the facts of science and evolution itself you just claim. If you just realize what you claimed a few minutes ago contradict your present claim. A simple answer to my question there's no such thing as beginning or the end and the conception of god cannot be explain (as the tao that cannot be explain but it can be felt)

      March 21, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @(B)iraq,
      If it's not a book of science, why argue about what science says? If the Quran is a spiritual book and it says God created the Earth and Adam, then wouldn't it make sense that it is speaking of how He created them in a spiritual sense? Isn't the science of how the physical aspect came about immaterial (pun intended) to the spiritual aspect of what God did?

      March 21, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
  10. (B)iraq Hussein Osama

    @ bp

    until you come up with some concrete evidence to the contrary, the Islamic position is on very solid grounds. There is a creator to this planet. We call Him GOD. Given the complexity and enormity of this planet, we do not see Him or Know Him in physical form. Perhaps He does not reveal Himself, perhaps He does and we have not noticed Him. Either way, GOD made this planet. And so far no atheist lunatic has shown or proven the NON-EXISTENCE of God.

    CREATION IS THE BEST PROOF OF GOD THE CREATOR.

    March 21, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
    • AncientLie

      Atheists do not have the burden of proof, Theists do who posit a claim, that God does exist. No one has EVER been able to back up this claim with any evidence and I challenge you to do the same here. Your Koran is not evidence by the way, you need a outside source. If you can prove it you'd win a Nobel prize my ill-informed friend.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:15 pm |
    • (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      @ bp

      to add insult to injury, the Islamic position is that GOD made MAN "with His own hands" metaphorically speaking. Man did not evolve from apes (in the sense that Godless people like you imagine). THERE WAS A DIVINE INTERVENTION that differntiates Man from Ape.

      SO FAR, NO GODLESS LUNATIC has shown any proof to the contrary. The Islamic Position is on FIRM GROUND. The more you dig up old dead monkeys, the more it only re-affirms the Islamic position.

      What Christianity says, is of NO CONCERN to us Muslims. Our Religion is a continuation of ancient Judaism.

      We do not believe Christianity or the New Testament (minus the Gospels) to be divinely inspired. Jesus was simply a Jewish Prophet. We do not believe large tracts of the Old Testament to be divinely inspired either. These are ancient CORRUPTED TEXTS. So if you find something scientifically odious in the Bible, don't point fingers at Muslims. Its not our Holy Text, nor has God chosen to "AUTHENITCATE" portions of the Bible as indeed being from Him or not. He has simply replaced the whole book with the Koran. End of Argument.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
    • (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      Atheists have the BURDEN OF PROOF that all this came out of thin air. Afterall, they deny anybody created the universe.
      And so far, they have only come up with hot air (from below their navels) as proof that all this came out of nothing.

      You will NEVER EVER hear an atheist claim that a knife or a plane or a train came into being all by itself. NEVER!! But show them something even more sophisticated like a human body. AND??? all of a sudden, they start passing hot air and absolving themselves of BURDEN OF PROOF!

      March 21, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
    • AncientLie

      Whoever says (X) exists has the burden of proof. Go read the rules for debate. Atheism is the rejection of your God and all God claims, not a positive position that needs proving. Your knife analogy is childish and doesn't even warrant a response.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
    • AncientLie

      Surah 4:89 ~ They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.

      So (B)iraq Hussein Osama, when are you gonna do as commanded by your God and kill me and every Atheist and every Christian for that matter? You don't wanna get on his bad side do you?

      March 21, 2011 at 5:37 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @(B)iraq,
      I see no (evidence of) god and therefore see no reason to believe in one. Show me a reason to believe and I may change my mind.

      @AncientLies,
      "you may kill them when you encounter them in war"
      You glossed over the bit about "in war". Why cause more confusion?

      March 21, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • AncientLie

      Nonimus, there are others that don't mention war, just to kill the non-believers. The point is he as a Muslim is commanded to lie and kill any non-muslim, just like the bible says to kill the infidel also. Why isn't he doing it. I personally like to see the religious squirm from this question. You act like we're gonna get anywhere with this fundie anyway. I think it's pretty clear where he stands. On the side of unreasonable and close mindedness.

      March 21, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      BHO.. God did not make man.. you have been told lies...you have to get a better understanding of science that will help you. I also understand that should you uncover the real evidence that evolution has, you could be in danger with in your religion, based on this story. Trying to prove us wrong with your book will not work as it still has zero evidence. It may be hard to comprehend this as you have been told all of your life it is true..

      March 21, 2011 at 10:20 pm |
    • MidwstrnGrl

      As far as a plane having a creator, it is a complex non-organic mechanism. It is not possible for it to change. An organic living organism is quite different – it can reproduce. Can a watch?

      March 21, 2011 at 11:42 pm |
    • Reality

      Osama, Osama, Osama,

      Once again we come with the cure:

      The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.
      The First Five of the 77 Branches:
      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

      Analogous programs are available for Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and Pagans.

      March 21, 2011 at 11:44 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @AncientLie,
      "there are others that don't mention war, just to kill the non-believers."
      Your statement was not supported by the quote you provided, that's all.

      March 22, 2011 at 9:48 am |
  11. Reality

    Obviously, CW and Osama are victims not only of the Three B Syndrome but also they are victims of the angel con game.

    To wit:

    Joe Smith had his Moroni.

    Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

    Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

    Jesus and his family had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day dem-on of the de-mented.

    The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

    Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of the founders of Islam, Christianity and Judaism and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

    March 21, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
    • LouAZ

      You forgot my Pony Macaroni !

      March 21, 2011 at 11:55 pm |
  12. jedi

    Usama Hassan did the right move to wake the Muslim world up. Sadly many in his community rejected the ideas of Science and evolution given that they are raise with the ideas of creationism – There's need to reform the Muslim world, and the Muslim world must adapt to the environment of separation of religion and state, and Muslim must learn to tolerate dissenting view or they'll never assimilate in the free world nor would their system they adopted be compatible with democracy. At least many conservative christian and jews tolerate dissenting view, despite the fact they too believe in the concept the creationism.

    March 21, 2011 at 4:53 pm |
  13. (B)iraq Hussein Osama

    Evolution, if indeed it is more than just a theory, could be perfectly compatible with Islam. God created the universe, and our planetary system, setting in motion a chain of events leading to where our planet is today.

    A few thousand years ago, He picked up some apes from the planet and re-jigged them and made MAN out of the resulting re-jig. Man is indeed descended from apes, but not in the way, atheist idiots think. That is why we do not have any transitional ape between man and ape, cause there isn't any. Man was created by God from some mammal He picked off the earth and altered its natural make-up (by in my opinion, putting in something of Himself in the altered mammal, be it compassion, or speech, or intelligence, or creativity).

    March 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
    • Luke

      "A few thousand years ago, He picked up some apes from the planet and re-jigged them and made MAN out of the resulting re-jig. Man is indeed descended from apes, but not in the way, atheist idiots think. That is why we do not have any transitional ape between man and ape, cause there isn't any."

      First of all, man is an ape. That's why there are no transitional species between man and ape. Secondly, there are transitional species between man and other primates. We have them. I can show you the fossils. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and I have no idea how you managed pass biology 101 in high school. I suggest going to the library before commening again. Have a lovely evening of reading.

      You fail.

      March 21, 2011 at 4:39 pm |
    • bp

      Cause we didint come directly from apes, we are a distant relative that branched off a common ancestor. Please go read some books first.

      March 21, 2011 at 4:40 pm |
    • AncientLie

      There's no evidence to support your assertion Osama. We have several transitional fossils, accept it or deny it, it's up to you. Do you know how rare it is to actually create a fossil, let alone find one that's been preserved. Science is open to new discoveries, your Bible/Koran is not. Accept the dogma or die infidel. That's what they both say.

      March 21, 2011 at 4:42 pm |
    • (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      Man is a creation of God. God tell us so. Whether he used ape as a base material or He created man from scratch, he does not tell us so. This entire planet is a CREATION OF GOD. Whether you like it or you do not! You are welcome to sit on your couches and make up theories of where man came from, making foolish assertions based on bones of dead monkeys you dug up, you are most welcome!

      Anyone who denies a CREATOR behind this planet needs to get his head checked. The last person on this planet denying a CREATOR should be MAN HIMSELF! Imagine! Man, the glorious creator of so many things, denying the planet itself has a creator.

      THE IRONY ESCAPES only the atheists!

      March 21, 2011 at 4:54 pm |
    • (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      I will make you a wager. Show an atheist a knife, and he will swear this thing was made by someone. Show 100,000 of these morons the knife, show it to them 10 different ways. SAME ANSWER!

      Show the same 100,000 idiots, the planet earth. AND? They will swear it came out of nothing!! Which begs the question! How are you so 100% sure that the knife came from a man, and did not just show up "OUT OF NOTHING"???

      No Answer Forthcoming!!

      March 21, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • Luke

      (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      Evolution says nothing about the origins of life nor the origins of the universe, nor does it say anything about something coming from nothing. You are further displaying you do not understand basic science and have managed to confuse evolution with cosmology. Get to reading.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
    • (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      @Luke

      Reading can do little, when you are missing common sense. You can Read day and night, but if you can't see a fly and identify it as a fly, and insist its an ancient dinosaur reduced by a ray-gun, nothing personal, but perhaps you should read less and REFLECT more.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:03 pm |
    • bp

      Huseeien, we throw facts and evidence behind our presumtions. I'll be the first to admit that we could be wrong about a number of things and when we are we accept that and throw our old ideas and assertions out the window. Whereas blind faith in a religion does not afford that same type of clarity to further ones own understanding of the universe. his article we are posting under s a primes example, this Muslim who says Islam and Evolution are combinalble has already been threatened with his life. Christianity is no better, just look at the history of christianity. I'll give you a prime example if youd like cause Im a firm believer in giving facts to base my arguments over. Back in the day the churh acknowledged that the heart was the center of reason and thoughty and not the brain, the church further declared it illegal to perform autopsies on any cadaver. Science is a contempt for people of the religious because the more science progresses the more people abandoned their believe in an invisble being. Quite frankly I will stick with what can be backed up by facts and evidence rather than having blind faith in something that cannot be prooven to exist.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • Luke

      (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      Indects, such as flies, do not share a common ancestor as dinosaurs. Wrong again. READ!

      March 21, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • jedi

      Regardless of how you interpret i,t human, monkey and other species of ape are the order of primates.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:16 pm |
    • bp

      Also this story is further proof how religion causes nothing more than sectarian discrimination by the religious community. No religion is immune from this bigotry. Im proud to be an Atheist who knows that mankind no matter where they are from, what there religion, color, gender, etc are no different or worse than me an every other person on this planet. Religion on the othr hand teaches people how they are special and are better than everyone else who thinks differently than them. Hence all ridicoulous hatred throught the ages.

      Stupid word censure , you cant even say the S word for gender.... really whatever happened to free speech?

      March 21, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Luke,
      "[Insects], such as flies, do not share a common ancestor as dinosaurs."
      I think they do share a common ancestor. Or, am I misunderstanding your statement?

      March 21, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      BHO...You are absolutely wrong with your version of evolution. You try to fit the fairy tales of your religion into truth, and it does not fit at all. You will have to read other books to understand the reasons .. read The Greatest Show on Earth. by Richard Dawkins, or Why evolution is True...by Jerry Coyne....evidence is offered.. let us know any mistakes you may find.

      March 21, 2011 at 10:02 pm |
    • Maya

      Does it make you feel smarter to call people who believe differently "idiots"? Do you think it makes your beliefs more valid?

      You are not so different than we atheists. We just believe in one fewer deity than you do. You have no more proof for the existence of your God than the Greeks did for Zeus, or the Egyptians did for Amun-Ra, or the Persians did for Ahura Mazda, or the Arabs do for Allah.

      March 21, 2011 at 11:22 pm |
    • LetsThink123

      @(B)iraq Hussein Osama
      Your Koran says that Adam was made from clay and allah breathed life into him. That is FALSE! We evolved from a common ancestor that split into apes and humans. There is no way u can fit your false koran into current science. When science realizes that its ideas are wrong (like einsteins view of gravity replacing newtons incorrect view of gravity) it throws the old wrong ideas out the window and welcomes the new ones. Islam and other religiions don't do that even though u know that your koran is wrong with the adam myth! All u r doing is attaching 'god' as the cause of evolution and not admitting that ur belief is flawed. That's how stupid religious dogma is, therefore dont u think that u r the idiot?

      April 4, 2011 at 9:32 am |
  14. MadMo

    Religion of Peace TM.

    Why this time there is no protests when Terry Jones burns quran? Check 'faith freedom'

    March 21, 2011 at 4:02 pm |
    • MoodyMoody

      Maybe because he chickened out at the last minute and decided NOT to burn the Qu'ran? He was pressured by many Americans–including the military–to abandon the planned burning of the Qu'ran.

      March 21, 2011 at 11:29 pm |
  15. bp

    I love how religions attempt to "merge" their scriptures with science when its clearly not compatiable at all. Science says thing like Universe is billions of years old and is backed up by facts or theories based off facts. Where as religion says the planets is a few thousand years old because some old dusty books says so. Science describes how the Earth probably formed and gives information and facts to back up that claim; Religion says it was "poofed" into existence; for example scientist widely belive the moon formed when a planet sized object the size of Mars crashed into the Earth and back it up with supporting evidence, Religion says "Poof" an it existed. For example, the amount of time (ie, speed of light) it takes for light to reach us from some of the farthest stars would have been created 80 or million years ago. If the worlds only 6k years old how do we see that starlight in the sky when it shoulnd't even be near reaching us yet.

    March 21, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
    • Luke

      Because they don't actually understand the science they are attempting to merge with to stay relevant. That's why it is funny.

      March 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm |
    • bp

      I agree, either they dont understand it or they do but only choose to acknowledge the science that they can use to make themselves look legit while dismissing anything that contradicts their beliefs.

      March 21, 2011 at 4:27 pm |
    • Luke

      bp

      They can't understand it. If they did, then their doctrine would implode in on itself. Science and religion are not compatable. They merely cherry pick; the entire lot of them. There's no other way to justify religious thinking.

      March 21, 2011 at 4:29 pm |
    • Trenor

      "For example, the amount of time (ie, speed of light) it takes for light to reach us from some of the farthest stars would have been created 80 or million years ago. If the worlds only 6k years old how do we see that starlight in the sky when it shoulnd't even be near reaching us yet."

      Ive heard some creationists respond to this... Some say that God sped up the light so it would reach us faster... While others have said that God made the light and put it in a position where it would reach us... Lol the stuff they come up with!

      March 23, 2011 at 10:29 am |
  16. CW

    @ Doc & Luke,

    I see your such experts on everything as always....I know what you already think of the Bible...so we don't have to go there. I'll stop treating the Bible as literal truth when your "science" and evolutionist's facts hit me up-'side the head. Since that is the same proof that you will need to believe the Bible as truth or in Jesus.

    March 21, 2011 at 3:32 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @CW
      Not just the bible – all holy books are in the same pile.
      Koran, Book of Mormon, Dianetics, Revelation X – take your pick.
      If you'd like, I could bean you upside the head with a Tiktaalik fossil.

      March 21, 2011 at 3:35 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @CW
      By the by – I see you abandoned our gay animal discussion.
      I know the bible doesn't mention parthenogenesis, but did you check it out for yourself?

      March 21, 2011 at 3:45 pm |
    • AncientLie

      @CW – Why do you think Evolution is taught in all our public schools across America? There is proof for it, you either accept the truth or DENY it to your own peril my friend. Creationism gets thrown outta court every time they try to introduce it because there is no proof for it whatsoever. See how science and the law work to cripple your position. Grow up and embrace reality.

      March 21, 2011 at 3:50 pm |
    • Luke

      Sure CW, stop by my lab. I'll show you evolution. Also, come to NYC and I'll walk you through the Natural History Museum with a personal tour guide that works in the museum – a friend of mine.

      Also, next time you read an article or watch a news program about a virus mutating when treated with medication, stop and let those words detonate in your head a bit before shooting off your mouth. A virus mutating? That evolution. Have a great day and I hope you learned something today.

      "That life evolved over the ages is clear, from the changes we've made in the beasts and vegetables, but also from the record in the rocks. The fossil evidence speaks to us unambiguously of creatures that were once present in enormous numbers and that have now vanished utterly. ... Evolution is a fact, not a theory. It really happened. That the mechanism of evolution is natural selection was the great discovery of Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace." ~ Carl Sagan, Astronomer and Astrophysicist, Cosmos: A Personal Voyage, ep. 2 "One Voice in the Cosmic Fugue", original air date 5 October 1980

      March 21, 2011 at 3:50 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      CW ..You can most certainly think the bible is literal truth, but i would suspect that you know it is not. If you look at evolution, it offers evidence, not proof, that is pointing strongly in favor of it being true. More and more religions are understanding it is most likely the "truth" ...The CC believes it, the Muslims will.. but thousands will be killed most likely before it is accepted. These ideas will not hit you up the side of your head.. that is the "believe or else" situation that religion uses, but will slowly open your eyes to the real situation. You can still believe in god if you wish.. he may have started it all.. but do not hold your breath.

      March 21, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @CW,
      If God created the universe, He left the evidence of how He did it. Why would you disbelieve what God has left for man to discover?

      March 21, 2011 at 6:11 pm |
    • wayne

      @Nonimus

      Because he prefers words in a book over the actual creation itself.

      March 21, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
    • sealchan

      I believe in God's creation over God's word to and through man any day!

      March 21, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
  17. Reality

    Saving 1.5 billion lost Muslim souls and their imams who still live in the dark ages:

    There never was and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam !!!!

    March 21, 2011 at 3:19 pm |
    • jedi

      @ Reality

      Thats right. We need to find ways to kill these Islamist/ Islamo Fascist ideology and system to prevent next generation of Muslim from getting influence by these Ulema, Imam , Ustaq and Mufti. Their mindset are stuck in Middle ages.

      March 21, 2011 at 4:38 pm |
    • jedi

      Usama Hassan did the right move to wake the Muslim world up. Sadly many in his community rejected the ideas of Science and evolution given that they are raise with the ideas of creationism – There's need to reform the Muslim world, and the Muslim world must adapt to the environment of separation of religion and state, and Muslim must learn to tolerate dissenting view or they'll never assimilate in the free world nor would their system they adopted be compatible with democracy. At least many conservative christian and jews tolerate dissenting view, despite the fact they too believe in the concept the creationism.

      March 21, 2011 at 4:51 pm |
    • (B)iraq Hussein Osama

      @ jedi

      you mean you have to find a way to kill muslims like you did to kill jews!
      why don't you and your Godless scientists make a new set of gas chambers
      using the latest alloys and more efficient use of nuclear energy to gas humans with

      March 22, 2011 at 1:18 am |
    • The Bobinator

      > you mean you have to find a way to kill muslims like you did to kill jews!
      why don't you and your Godless scientists make a new set of gas chambers
      using the latest alloys and more efficient use of nuclear energy to gas humans with

      You're a horrible troll. You have the level of stupid correctly, but the delivery was too over the top and confrontational. I suggest correcting these in the future.

      March 22, 2011 at 9:28 am |
    • jedi

      @ (b)iraq hussein Osama

      Oh since when do you have sympathy for jews? Oh let me guess...just to make yourself look like you're not anti-semite which is similar to what Grand Mohammad Amin Al-Husseini who said that Jews are not but the zionist are. History have shown there are people pretending to be pro-jewish and anti-zionist but the truth reveal these people are anti-semite all along

      March 22, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
  18. JohnR

    Another brave soul has to live in fear because of knuckle-dragging thugs working in the name of their all-merciful god. I guess this is chapter 2,717,124,347 or so.

    March 21, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
  19. Luke

    The most hilarious part about evolution debates is that there is no question about evolution's fact. We can see it. It is testable, measurable and predictable. Darwin did not even come up with the idea. He theorized natural selection, not evolution. We knew about evolution far before Darwin came around. For instance – we've been breeding dogs since for centuries. We figured out how to make certain types of dogs by breeding the proper parents. We did the same thing with horses. Shame that religion can't even get this part straight.

    March 21, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
  20. Doc Vestibule

    Even the Vatican accepts evolution and its laws as fact.
    Religionists need to quit treating their mythology as literal truth.

    March 21, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.