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March 21st, 2011
02:59 PM ET
Married priest ordained in WisconsinFrom CNN Milwaukee affiliate WITI It was a traditional ordination at St. Jerome Parish Saturday for a man with a non-traditional path to priesthood. Deacon Russell Arnett, now Father Arnett, was first ordained in the Episcopal Church where priests are allowed to marry. Now Arnett is the first priest to enter the Archdiocese of Milwaukee through what is called the "Pastoral Provision." It is a Vatican rule started in 1980 that makes it easier for Anglican clergy to convert to Catholicism. Read the full story about the ordination of a married Milwaukee priest on WITI
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The Apostle Paul wrote in his New Testament epistle, regarding how the servant of God should behave. He wrote:
" Do not have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments,
because you know they produce quarrels.
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome
but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Opponents must be gently instructed..."
II Timothy 2:23-25
The Apostle Paul gave instructions to the servant of God in his New Testament epistle:
"Do not have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments,
because you know they produce quarrels.
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome
but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Opponents must be gently instructed..."
Second Timothy 2:23-25
The Apostle Paul wrote, regarding the servant of God:
"Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments,
because you know they produce quarrels.
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome
but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Opponents must be gently instructed..."
(II Timothy 2:23-25)
Paul's instructions to the servant of God:
"Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments,
because you know they produce quarrels.
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome
but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Opponents must be gently instructed..."
Second Timothy 2:22-25
The Apostle Paul in his New Testament epistle wrote:
"They want to be teachers of the law,
but they do not know what they are talking about
or what they so confidently affirm."
First Timothy 1:7
I am reminded of the wordsd Koheleth wrote
(See: the Old Testament book of Ecclesiastes):
Let your words be few, for God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.
Also Paul in First Timothy 1:7 speaks about those who
"want to be teachers of the law,
but they do not know what they are talking about
or what they so confidently affirm."
And I am reminded of the words Job spoke (See: OT book of Job)
to his, no doubt, well-intentioned friends,
who came to explain to him what God was doing and why God was doing this–
Job said: "If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom."
Job 13:5
Again I think the words of Koheleth
(See: the Old Testament book of Ecclesiastes)
would be fitting here for some:
"Let your words be few, f
or God is in heaven and you are on earth,
so let your words be few."
And the words Job spoke (See: OT book of Job) to his well-intentioned friends,
who came to explain to him what God was doing and why God was doing this–
Job said: "If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom."
Job 13:5
Then Job replied:
“Doubtless you are the only people who matter,
and wisdom will die with you!"
Job 12:1
CatholicMom Part2
Oh, I never said that you do not have to have faith in Jesus Christ before Baptism. The Church in her fullness of Truth tells us that the faith of our parents is sufficient for Baptism of babies but as an adult we profess our faith individually. Why does the Church believe this? Because Jesus Christ performed miracles upon a person due to someone else’s faith.
Genesis 20:17..’and when Ab-ra-ham prayed, God healed Abimelech and his wife, and his handmaids, and they bo-re children:’
Hebrews 11:7 ‘By faith Noe, having received an answer concerning those things which as yet were not seen, moved with fear, framed the ark for the saving OF HIS HOUSE…’.
Galat!tians 2:16… ‘that we may be justified by the faith of Christ,…..’
Matthew 8:13 ‘And Jesus said to the centurion: Go, and as thou hast believed, so be it done to thee. And the servant was healed at the same hour.’ It didn’t say that the servant was already a believer of Christ……
So you see, Baptism is granted by faith and it can be the faith of the parents for their children. Remembering that the Church has the Holy Spirit’s promise to keep His Church abiding in Truth where faith and morals are concerned. The Church knows that Jesus said also to let the children come to Him…do not hinder them. Why should they not receive a gift that is meant for whole households, all peoples, all nations? Babies do have Orig-inal Sin as we all do when we are born…this is washed away in babies and all who receive Baptism. Why would Jesus Christ command the Apostles to go and teach and Baptize all nations and He never said…do not exclude babies. Each year at Easter time we all renew our Baptismal vows and renounce satan and all his works. [another post to follow.]
** We have been over this way up above. Yes, I believe in miracles, and I believe they can be granted on ones faith. The scripture you cited here, pertains to the faith of the person, and the Lord granted it.
However, unless the Lord shows me otherwise, I still holdfast to the Baptism, not saving. Baptism when done by John, even called first for the repentance of the sins of the person being baptised, then he was baptised. It was something the believer had to confess, being old enough to understand and acknowledge he was a sinner.
As far as baby baptism..I still hold firm that it does not by faith ofthe parents, save the child. The child when he is able to realise he is a sinner, and again, understand, must make that personal decision ON HIS OWN.
I could understand that parents would want to commit thier child, as being raised in the Lords word and ways. But, no, Baptism follows salavtion, not the other way around.
When are we saeld with the Holy Spirit;
Countless passages of Scripture clearly teach that salvation comes when one believes in the gospel, at which time he or she is sealed “in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13).
A baby cannot "believe" what a baby does not have the abilty to understand. See the word "believes".
Not only that, but Limbo, a place where Catholics believed a baby went, just outside of Hell, if it died as a baby, has been stricken from the Catholic beief system.
The doctrine of Limbo was introduced by the eminent Catholic philosopher Augustine (354-430). He concluded that infants who died without baptism were consigned to hell. Consequently, in 385 Pope Siricius wrote to Bishop Himerius that he felt bound in conscience—for the sake of his own salvation—to warn Himerius that he should insist on the baptism of infants as well as adults in his diocese. However, not all parishioners sought Catholic baptism for their children.
More than 800 years later, Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274), an Italian Dominican monk, theologian and philosopher came up with Limbo as a state of natural happiness for unbaptized children, as well as for others lacking the use of reason; but taught that a reward of supernatural happiness for them was inappropriate because of their original sin.
Limbo, from Latin limbus meaning edge or boundary (of hell by implication), was thereafter taught to be a state after death in Roman Catholic theology. It was compartmentalized into two categories, one for children called limbus infantium and the second for the Fathers called limbus patrum, a temporary state of the souls of anciently righteous people.
It was in the 14th century that the Italian poet Dante Alighiere (1265-1321) wrote his most popular literary work Divina Commedia (The Divine Comedy). Overlooked by most is the fact that his work intentionally included the word commedia (comedy) because he made fun of (did a parody/satire of) the then popular religious teachings of Limbo, Purgatory, and Paradise, and even assigned known personalities of his day into those various categories!
The decision of the present Pope marks a gradual softening of the Catholic view towards those who die without being baptized. Pope Benedict XVI, prior to his election to the Papacy, was already on record for his personal disbelief in Limbo. Since, from a biblical perspective, the doctrine of purgatory stands in the same category as Limbo, will it be next for review by Catholic religious scholars? For that we will have to wait to see.
http://www.ucg.org/commentary/abandons.htm
That kind of tells me that this backs up my belief that a baby is innocent at birth. Even ifit has original sin, it is the stain of and not willfull sin committed by the baby. This can be taken away when the baby grows to the age of understanding and becomes saved.
Post 3 I will do later today.
CatholicMom...Sorry I did not get to page 2! Y
ou see what time that post of mine went up? Well, my pc dropped out and I have been the last 2 hours and 45 minutes trying to get this working. After everything I tried failed, I discovered it was the router! It is too late now to do my second page, but I will try to get to it tomorrow sometime.
Newsflash Good article! Lets see how the athiest try to bamboosle this one!
CatholicMom....To say you need to be purged of sin by passing through fire, is denying Christs sacrifice was total, and covered your sins forever.
Your works done on Earth, in your lifetime since you became saved,, that is what is passed in the fire. How else would you get your rewards, and stones in your crown.
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/04/The-Discovery-of-the-Sin-Cities-of-Sodom-and-Gomorrah.aspx
When the archaeological, geographical and epigraphic evidence is reviewed in detail, it is clear that the infamous cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have now been found. What is more, this evidence demonstrates that the Bible provides an accurate eyewitness account of events that occurred southeast of the Dead Sea over 4,000 years ago.
HereWeGoAgain, using this verse John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can sn-atch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can sn=atch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." This does not cover the fact that we can walk away on our own…like an atheist has said he has done. For us to say that he never was a true Christian is a personal judgment on our part and we do not know what relationship he had with our Lord.
Look at the people the world over… they say they are in love, marry, and then divorce after many years…were they never in a true love relationship?…were they not blessed with children in their covenant with God? Did they not turn their back on their covenant with God in this case and walk away from that relationship which was with their spouse and with God? People are in loving relationships and walk away all the time!
HereWeGoAgain …you wrote….Each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation [of Christ] survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.(1 Cor. 3:13-15).
If you take the verses which surround the ones you are using, you will see the full meaning of 13-15….Use 11-15 for a fuller understanding…
11 For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: 13 Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
We are reading here about no other foundation can be laid but that of Jesus Christ. If man build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ then his gold, silver, wood, hay, etc, will go through the purging fire [Purgatory] and so will the man go through the fire for he has been a part of his works for his works did not happen without him doing his freewill to work them…and it says ‘but he shall be saved yet so as by fire’ that being said that if his foundation is that of Christ Jesus. If his wood and hay is of man’s foundation and not of Jesus Christ’s foundation, he and his wood and hay will not be saved for nothing remains that is not of Jesus Christ’s foundation.
I must say that I have never heard of Gills Expo. I would be rather skeptical unless he is of Apostolic Succession….who sent him? Remember, as Jesus Christ was sent with power and authority by the Father, that is how He sent His Apostles out into the world.
Mar, you do not want to hear of Confession the way Jesus Christ set it up for us [as the Bible says…confess to one another…] but you admit that confession is necessary even though you wish to confess ‘your way’ directly to God. Thank you for saying that confessing to a priest which is by Persona Christi as being a good thing. Thank you for acknowledging that. We know that it is not the Priest who absolves us but Jesus Christ Himself…He hears us and we hear Him. There is nothing like it! Just like the Word…we are to HEAR it…so much of our Faith as Christians is that way. It is a relationship that is felt in the Heart and it is a Family of God that we belong to. Jesus Christ came to us to live in a family…and to establish His Own!
I didn’t mean for this to get so long but as I reread your posts, I could not resist! I hope we can continue in our dialogue…if not on this thread maybe others. God bless you on your journeys, both of you.
HereWeGoAgain
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
CatholicMom I appreciate your responses and hard work as well.
Now, to address what we were discu=ssing.
I think one problem we are having, in trying to understand one another, is that we differ on our belief, regarding Baptism and Salvation.
You, (I think it is correct to say), that you believe that Baptism saves you, without needing to accept Jesus Christ first..
I do not believe Baptism saves, but only the that only having faith that the Blood of Jesus Christ saves us, by his grace, and after that, being baptised and becoming a new creature in Christ, who is filled with Holy Spirit.
I am going to try my best, to explain once more, why I believe this, and why I do not believe one can lose his salvation.
I may be posting some scripture I have already given before, but it because it best helps me support what I am trying to relay to you.
According to the words spoken by Jesus
In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can sn-atch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can sn=atch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." The forgiveness of God through Christ is suffi-cient to cover all of our sins – past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 24, among others. CANNOT LOSE SALVATION AS A TRUE CHRISTIAN, JESUS SAID SO
That says you cannot lose your Salvation, it is given by God and Jesus says, NOTHING can take it away. It can't be lost.
That means: You have to be TRULY saved. Not a professing "Christian", not bearing any fruits at all, not really covered by Jesus blood, not accepting his sacrifice on the cross for you.
Another verse that cements this for me is:
KJV And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Why? Because Jesus clearly states they were not true Christians. He called them evildoers.
Part 1 of 1 Trying to post in pieces,lol.
RomanCatholic_
@Catholic Mom, I know how you feel, but don't worry, our departed brothers and sisters will soon realize and understand everything. =D
Nice ....so you are condemning them to death, as indicated by your +D.?
Watch out, you just may be sinning against another christian sister or brother, unless you believe they are going to hell, because they are not in your particular church.
LOL @ George!
George...I think that was an emoticon that din' "take"..hehe!
You all get so serious here it's comical sometimes. Keep Smilin:)
2Peter3:16….
St. Peter wrote this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit [as are all Scripture in the Bible]. Which means it is the Truth. This verse says: ‘As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
So since St. Peter wrote that there are certain things hard to be understood which we wrest [change from true to a false interpretation] to our own destruction, this is proof positive that there needs be Authority to interpret the Bible.
The Holy Spirit DID NOT SAY ‘certain things are hard to be understood but be not concerned because He would send the Advocate to each and every reader so each will not have the problem of wresting with the Word. No, He said we wrest with the Scriptures to our own destruction.
We understand that the Holy Spirit was promised to Jesus Christ’s Apostles to bring them into remembrance of what He told the Apostles and to teach them any fullness of Truth that we can bear. "These things I have spoken to you while yet dwelling with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring to your mind whatever I have said to you." John 14:25-26 He will teach them the Truth about ALL THINGS...this would include the Bible!
So we have the Holy Spirit’s promise. It is a blessing! Read, enjoy, but when you have a question you can find the answer in the Catholic Church…lest you wrest!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw