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March 25th, 2011
09:34 AM ET
Christian to Muslim: A change of faithEditor’s Note: "Unwelcome: The Muslims Next Door" features the Muslim community of Murfreesboro, Tennessee, where Matthew Miller has lived since age 15. CNN’s Soledad O’Brien chronicles the dramatic fight over the construction of a mosque in the heart of the Bible belt. “Unwelcome: The Muslims Next Door” airing at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. E.T. April 2 on CNN. By Elizabeth M. Nunez, CNN The actual conversion was brief. It only involved one sentence: “I bear witness that there is no God worthy of worship but God, I bear witness that Mohammed is the messenger of God.” For 30-year-old Mathew Miller, those words represented the culmination of a long religious transformation from Christianity to Islam. Miller is a digital media communications major at Middle Tennessee University and works part-time at a golf course. He was raised Christian in California, surfing and dreaming of being a radio DJ. “My first interaction with Islam was this movie called ‘Not Without my Daughter’. That was my first glimpse into what Western society believed was really going on in Islam,” he said. "Not Without My Daughter" is a 1991 film in which Sally Field portrays an America woman who flees from Iran with her daughter. The movie, based on true story detailed in a book by the same title, was faulted by critics for portraying a stereotypical view of Iranians and Islam. But in questioning his own beliefs, and after a conversation with a Muslim friend, Miller’s interest in Islam was piqued. “I think for the most part I was afraid, don’t really know of what,” he said. Later, attending Friday prayers at a small Mosque in Murfreesboro, he began to learn more. “When I put my head on the ground with them, it felt like I could say anything to God, and what I was asking for at the time was guidance. I wanted to know whether what I was doing was the right thing to do.” His mother had long expected his change of religious faith. “I told my mother I was Muslim in Disneyland. She said ‘I don’t necessarily know if I feel good about it, but if it makes you happy and it’s what you feel is the right way, then there’s nothing I can do.’” Now he regularly worships at the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro mosque. Miller, a white convert in a diverse congregation, has heard comments about his faith - and the controversy surrounding his mosque. Once, an Iraqi war veteran told him that the new controversial Islamic Center of Murfreesboro should not be built because it could potentially harbor terrorists. “I addressed his questions formally and it was funny because at the end of the conversation, he kind of started admitting, 'Well you know, I don’t know anything about Islam.” soundoff (3,206 Responses)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 Next »
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Those that say they were Christian, but converted to something else, never were truly Christian to begin with. That is not the way it works.
Just proves, everyone if it serves their purpose, are prone to lie to save their skin.
> Those that say they were Christian, but converted to something else, never were truly Christian to begin with. That is not the way it works.
Yep, becuase if it wasn't the case, the faith could be seen as less then flawless. Funny how it works that way isn't it.
If people say, they've seen the light.
If they leave, they didn't really see the light.
When will you realize this is all nonsense made up in your head so that you can hold onto the thoughts you want to.
There are not 2 gods. But 1 true God made of the Holy Trinity: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
I thought he was made of earth fire and water.
You are one true gullible dope.
In the last 6000 years of recorded human history, there have been 2,870 gods and goddesses. YES! 2,870! - You either accept them all ... or deny them all ... as they all come from man's colorful imagination!
Posting twice??? Seriously?
I am glad he found something trivial to talk about so that he can claim he knows more about something than other people. I hope this gives him the delusion he is looking for: that he is better or more advanced or more aware or more intelligent than other people.
As soon as we learn to set down 'gods' as a society and learn to take responsibility for all our OWN actions maybe we can move forward.
AMEN! That is exactly what caused the problem with Adam and Eve, they blamed everybody including God himself rather than taking responsibility for their own actions and that they (as we all are) responsible for the evil on the planet.
@Mao
Adam and eve is a myth. Lets not talk about made up stuff here.
1. FACT: If a brother and sister have a child together, there is a high probability of that child suffering from retardation.
Based on this fact, why isn't most of the world suffering from retardation if we all came from Adam and Eve?
2. FACT: The first early humans were walking this earth 200k-500k years ago, and came out of AFRICA.
Based on this fact, how does the Adam and Eve story hold up to such a vast error in timescale? God created the world in 7 days, and even if you say that 1 day = 1000 years, the number is still way off!
3. FACT: The stars we see in the night sky are just other suns (some larger than our sun, some smaller). They were also formed BEFORE our sun.
Genesis 1:3 says: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. <– This means that the sun was created.
Genesis 1:16 says: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Why did God make the stars AFTER our sun?? It contradicts FACT.
If you go against facts, then you are wrong. That's why adam and eve never existed.
> AMEN! That is exactly what caused the problem with Adam and Eve, they blamed everybody including God himself rather than taking responsibility for their own actions and that they (as we all are) responsible for the evil on the planet.
The only way you could think this is valid is if you don't know what your God is and if you're unable to figure out what those described properties means logically. I'd suggest reading your bible and thinking.
@LetsThink123
"Adam and eve is a myth. Lets not talk about made up stuff here.
1. FACT: If a brother and sister have a child together, there is a high probability of that child suffering from retardation.
Based on this fact, why isn't most of the world suffering from retardation if we all came from Adam and Eve?"
Because the DNA of Adam and Eve contained no errors in it. Errors in the DNA coding happened later due to mutations.
"2. FACT: The first early humans were walking this earth 200k-500k years ago, and came out of AFRICA.
Based on this fact, how does the Adam and Eve story hold up to such a vast error in timescale? God created the world in 7 days, and even if you say that 1 day = 1000 years, the number is still way off!"
This is contestable. But either my colleagues are correct and the tale of Adam and Eve is merely an allegory or myself and other colleagues are correct in assuming that God created everything to appear as though it was 200k y/o.
"3. FACT: The stars we see in the night sky are just other suns (some larger than our sun, some smaller). They were also formed BEFORE our sun."
Same as point two. Remember, Adam and Eve were created as adults in the story, not kids or babies. It is consistent to think that God created the planet and universe with age.
"Genesis 1:3 says: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. <– This means that the sun was created."
No, this means that God created light. I don't look at a light bulb and confuse it with the sun. How light was manifested isn't described in Gen 1:3.
"Genesis 1:16 says: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."
Why did God make the stars AFTER our sun?? It contradicts FACT."
Asking a why question does not reveal a contradiction but rather a lack of information on your part.
@The Bob
You are in fact in error as it was not anything that you have proposed that led me to believe what I said about Adam and Eve, but what is written in the Bible. That is how I come to think the way I do. Gen 3:12-13 have Adam and Eve playing the blame game. Read my Bible, did my thinking. Time for you to catch up.
> You are in fact in error as it was not anything that you have proposed that led me to believe what I said about Adam and Eve, but what is written in the Bible. That is how I come to think the way I do. Gen 3:12-13 have Adam and Eve playing the blame game. Read my Bible, did my thinking. Time for you to catch up.
Oooo, a challenge. Time for logic to show you why you haven't thought about your beliefs.
From your bible.
1) God is omnipotent. That is to say all powerful.
2) This requires omniscience. That is all knowing, because God would not be all powerful without being omniscient.
3) God creates the Garden of Eden.
4) God creates Adam with flaws, for Adam is not perfect like God.
At the point of Adam being created, God is aware of the test he will put forth to Adam and Eve. He knows they will fail due to the flaws he has placed within them. He goes on and does it anyway.
What does this mean:
A) God is responsible for sin, because it was his direct action and his knowledge of action that created it.
B) Adam and Eve have no fault, for they are acting as God willed.
C) Adam and Eve have no free will for they are unable to alter themselves from God's design and will act as he has dictated.
Therefore, Adam and Eve bear no responsiblity of sin. Along with their offspring, and their offspring, and their offspring.
It's akin to making a knife blunt and then blaming the knife that it's blunt.
My conversion was truly liberating. It freed my mind from the things that didn't make sense. The things that shackled me all these years were vanquished. When I converted to atheism and realized a personal god does not exist, and that all religion is bunk, I was, and am, truly free.
------– http://www.GodIsImaginary.com
There's a sucker born every minute – and this dork is just another in a long line of suckers.... No pity for the ignorant.
religion. schmreligion. often one of many reason why we go to war. waste of time and money if you ask.
haha religion. funny.
In the last 6000 years of recorded human history, there have been 2,870 gods and goddesses. You either acept them all ... or deny them all ... as they all come from man's colorful imagination!
Actually Jesus, the Man, can be traced in historical Fact – and one of the only ones to be done. Next?
@Catholic Mom and Wife
There may be historical evidence for a MAN named Jesus, but there is no evidence that he was divine. The divinity of Christ did not become Christian dogma until some 300 years after his death.
@Doc
Yeah, Jesus' divinity wasn't held until 300 years later... despite church fathers who lived pre-300 AD that held Jesus as Christ and the words written by Jesus' followers themselves that Jesus was divine. It seems you're just rehashing other people's arguments rather than researching the issues yourself.
@Mao
And it seems that you're simply re-hashing revionist historical dogma.
I'm more than familiar with what happened at the Council of Nicea.
The divinity of Christ and the concept of the trinity was a divise issue for early Christians.
@Doc
Yes, I am aware for example of the writings between Tertullian and Praxeas. They're very well written and I'm glad to have them in my library.
However your assumption is that it requires an official council to come together and make an official ruling on an issue before it can be true (otherwise why make your point).
The divinity of Jesus was held as true even going back to the apostles (especially John as he says regarding Jesus as the word "the word was God" John 1:1, and in rev 21:7 Jesus, the Alpha and Omega says, "I will be their God" which echos God's words in the OT.
@ Doc
Ok, you are aware of what happened at the council of Nicaea. That's good. But that's not the whole of it right (hence why you said that it was a diverse issue). But since we're talking about the divinity of Jesus and not the council itself, it is fruitful to talk about why they came to the decision, or why there was a belief in Jesus as divine before the council, yes?
If Jesus is divine it isn't because a council said so, but because of what was considered as evidence for Jesus as being divine. (I have never been in a debate with a person who didn't believe in the trinity where the council of Nicaea was counted as proof one way or the other).
@ Doc
I guess saying that the divinity of Jesus didn't become doctrine until the council of Nicaea is like saying that the theory of evolution wasn't officially acceptable until the Scope's Monkey trial. Who'd do that?
Agreed, proof of the man does not equal proof of the divine. Does the fact that John Smith actually existed speak to his supernatural events?
3 words, John Walker Lindh
I wonder how many women adopt Islam without any pressure from their boyfriends or husbands ....
About 60% of converts in the US are Women and many do so despite being beaten and mistreated by their Christian Husbands after they convert to Islam. The fact is many Women because Muslim because they want to. If they are married to a Muslim man he probably isn't a very devout Muslim in the first place if he married a non-Muslim woman so he wouldn't care if she converted. You think that because Women are oppressed in the west and are forced to show off their bodies for men and you call this freedom. In Islam the men need to work and provide their wife with everything she wants and her money is not to be touched by him.
you missed the point totally!
Islam provides these women with MONOGAMOUS RIGHTEOUS husbands and boyfriends who are faithful and modest and righteous in their treatment of these women. Men, these women cannot find otherwise in christiandom.
They convert to Islam because Islam produces such great men of honor.
CNN get over it! I don't want a Muslim living next door. This is a bunch of lame crap no wonder your ratings are in the toilet. Does Wolf live next to a Muslim? I want my country back!!!!
I'm pretty sure the Native Americans also want their country back. When are you heading back to England/Norway/or whatever country your wretched ancestors came from?
Maybe you should move. You sound like a "righteous Christian", which I hope never lives next door to me!
its not your country. There are about 300 million plus of us. And I am sure once u get rid of the poor, the non-christians, the gays...this will be the perfect country. Live your life as a content Christian, i will live mine as not one...we will all keep to ourselves and live happily ever after...yes i want that.
Did St. Paul live in a country owned by Christians? You should look at this as an opportunity! Muslims are some of the greatest people to talk to about Jesus because they're so open to talk about him. Try talking about Jesus with a stranger who is an atheist, a buddhist, or another Christian for that matter and you won't get a better response than when talking with a Muslim (Maybe with a Hindu, they're pretty open to talking about Jesus as well)!
http://www.GodIsImaginary,.com
Send him to gitmo.
That verdict would similar to a fundamentalist/extremist in a muslim country making of a christian or someone converted to christianity.
How very American and "Christian" of you! Typical of closed-minded Southern religious zealots....
ur sooo christian. u scare me
@dogs rule
Yeah but they breed more and demographis wins in a democracy. So brush up on your hillbilli spanglish.
If he stopped believing in one why not both? What a fool.
He probably did. I was an atheist before becoming Muslim. It is a common path, the rejection of religion before becoming Muslim and you learn about it and read the big bang theory in the Quran, read about evolution in the Quran.
Joe, you never were an atheist if you converted from one religion to another.
> It is a common path, the rejection of religion
Atheism is not about rejecting religion. It's about not believing in a God. Usually due to a lack of evidence.
This guy is a nut.
Tennessee has a bunch of 'em.
YA' THINK? I moved to TN from New York, and I can attest to the fact that this place is full of religious nuts. The guy who chose Islam is NOT necessarily one of them. There are some pretty scary, disturbing Baptists, though!
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day of your life.
And he has a list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any, any, of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and ash and torture where he will send you to suffer and burn and scream and cry forever and ever until the end of time.
.... But he loves you.
He loves you and he needs money!
– George Carlin.
Hard to put the idiocy of religion any better then that.
@ The bobinator,
Let me guess you believe you came from an ape...right? Believe that everything that has come from man's mouth in science is true...b/c several other men were able to test the theory. I bet that Gravity isn't gravity but gr-ass and dirt are really magnets keeping us on the ground. I bet if I paid some other men to test this....they would come back with the same theory.
So....let me guess.....did you test the Big bang????....how do you know what created us??....show me all the tests you conducted to come to this....answer....I know...you can call what you believe in "the big nothing".
@CW
And you believe you came from clay.
Besides, gravity is just a "theory" like evolution. "Intelligent Falling" is another theory, just a valid.
We all know that things fall not because they are acted upon by some gravitational force, but because God is pushing them down.
Job 5:7 But mankind is born to trouble, as surely as sparks fly upwards.’ If gravity is pulling everything down, why do the sparks fly upwards with great surety? This clearly indicates that a conscious intelligence governs all falling.
> Let me guess you believe you came from an ape...right?
Actually I don't believe that I came from an ape. Because that's not what evolution says. It says we share a common ancestor with chimps. And Chimps and Humans share a common ancestor with Gorillas.
Second of all even if your question was intelligent and on topic, there is no belief required. It's been proven to be the case due to fossils and genetics. Unquestionably. As demonstrated by your question above you lack any sort of appreciable knowledge of evolution.
> Believe that everything that has come from man's mouth in science is true...b/c several other men were able to test the theory.
It's true in our frame of reality because it can be demonstrated in our frame of reality. Things that cannot be proven in our frame of reality might be true, but that's a fools errand and isn't a path to truth. The only thing we can rely on is our senses and our thoughts because they're the only tools we have.
> I bet that Gravity isn't gravity but gr-ass and dirt are really magnets keeping us on the ground. I bet if I paid some other men to test this....they would come back with the same theory.
Only if they're morons like you. Your claim is easy enough to test. If dirt and grass does have attractive qualities which accounts for gravity, then we should be able to place them next to things that are affected by gravity and they should pull each other. This can be measured. If there is no pull, or pull insufficient to warrent the movement downwards of objects then the hypothesis will fail. See that, I used my brain to pick apart your moronic example. Thinking for the win.
> So....let me guess.....did you test the Big bang????....how do you know what created us??....show me all the tests you conducted to come to this....answer....I know...you can call what you believe in "the big nothing".
Again, you show your ignorance. You're simply unwilling to learn and to think. You reject anything that isn't in line with what you want to believe. As such, anyone with an IQ over 80 sees you for what you are, a rambling fool with no clue of what he's talking about.
And as an aside, yes, the big bang can be tested. It makes predictions that are validated by the obserable universe. You'd be aware of this if you had a clue what you're talking about.
Game point match for the atheists once again.
@Bobinator
And now we await the smug reply wherein faith is asserted to be superior to reason and you're condemned to an eternity of damnation.
@Doc Yeah, there is no better way to say "I have lost the argument" then that. 🙂
@ The bobinator,
NOT!!!!!
My post to you was to show how ignorant atheist's are to believe in this blah blah blah blah blah of man's science. In addition God did give us senses but we are to ultimately rely on him.
I can point you to 100 different ways of looking at a scientific study...it proves one thing....everyone has an opiniion that they can "test" to prove they're right.
I CHOOSE to aline my views with the Bible...its been around longer than you are I will ever be.
Its a choice....make the right one...I know you can do it.
> NOT!!!!!
My god... I've traveled back to 1993.
> My post to you was to show how ignorant atheist's are to believe in this blah blah blah blah blah of man's science. In addition God did give us senses but we are to ultimately rely on him.
And I totally disproved your point. I showed you that we can only rely on our senses and reason because that's all we have. If we have to rely on God, why didn't God realize that faith will lead people to the wrong conclusion.
> I can point you to 100 different ways of looking at a scientific study...it proves one thing....everyone has an opiniion that they can "test" to prove they're right.
You tried one. I showed you why it was stupid. You can try again, but it'll probably be equally stupid.
> I CHOOSE to aline my views with the Bible...its been around longer than you are I will ever be.
Age of an idea doesn't mean it's correct. Are faiths older then Christianity "more valid" by your logic? Of course not.
> Its a choice....make the right one...I know you can do it.
I have made the right choice. I have not allowed my mind to be muddled in nonsense like yours.
As pointless as I know this is, I'm going to try and explain something to you CW. I realize this is akin to teaching a child with downsyndrome to perform brain surgery, however, I figure I'd give it a shot.
I'm going to define some terms so that you can in fact follow along.
Nature of the Universe: How the universe works, regardless of whether it is known or not.
Reality: Our perception of how the universe works, regardless of how it actually works.
Now think about this. Humans have limited ways to percieve the universe. We cannot percieve everything in the universe and we are, I'd assume unaware of a great number of things.
As such, our knowledge of the universe is lacking. Following that, because our knowledge is lacking we cannot know the true nature of the universe. Therefore, our perception of what the universe is, our reality cannot be proven to be representi-tive of the nature of the universe
Think about that for a moment. Because we don't know everything, we cannot say for certain if our knowledge actually represents the nature of the universe because there might be something we're unaware of.
So, reality is in fact NOT the nature of the universe. Reality is therefore a product of our perceptions. The way we see the universe, because we cannot see it as it actually exists.
It is in this framework in which we try to advance our knowledge. And the only proven way we can do that is through logic, reason and the scientific method. And the reason these are the only ones that are used is because these are the only ones that have produced consistent and testable results.
Faith has been shown throughout history to be unreliable and inconsistent. Leading many people to many different conclusions for which they have no reason to consider.
Science on the other hand has expanded our knowledge and built a framework on which we can continue to build.
You say science is flawed, fine. Tell me how something that is flawed has built so much more of worth to our world then something that, in your words, is not.
Game. Point. Match. Atheists win again.
@ The bobinator,
I tell you what. Its just like you said I can't convince you....and your NOT going to convince me. All the perception is reality talk...your right...you say your reality is truth....I'll say that my reality is shaped by the Bible. No faith has never been proven wrong...the reason...no one has died and came back to tell us what happens....Well I take that back...there has been several books written by those that have experienced what you call an "out of body" experience. See "90 minutes in Heaven" or "The boy that went to heaven". Now you want to talk about something that can be tested...in the book about the Boy....he knew details about his experience that NO ONE could have know. Let me ask...how do you know your right?...you can't test it.
Bobinator all very well put, please keep at it. Sadly until all is known scared sheep will hide in the gaps of current knowledge and that their lives and brief consciousness actually have meaning beyond that of our species.
> I tell you what. Its just like you said I can't convince you....and your NOT going to convince me.
No, you're wrong. You CAN convince me. However you have to provide actual reasons and evidence to do so. But for you, no matter what I present, you will not be convinced. You have a closed mind to anything that disagrees with your preconcieved notions. I'm open minded.
> All the perception is reality talk...your right...you say your reality is truth....I'll say that my reality is shaped by the Bible.
No, I don't say that my reality is truth. I say my reality is demonstratable. Your reality is not. Mine is as true as it can be with the tools we have available. Yours crumbles on even basic scruitny. My reality is based on what has been shown to be true. Your reality is based on what you wish was true. There's a difference.
> No faith has never been proven wrong...the reason...no one has died and came back to tell us what happens....Well I take that back...there has been several books written by those that have experienced what you call an "out of body" experience.
You miss the point. Allow me to prove to you that faith is wrong. Islam and Christianity rely on faith for their religion. Islam says Christ was not the son of God. Christianity says that Jesus is the son of God.
Both cannot be correct. One must be wrong. If both use the same level of evidence, that is to say, faith, then if one can be wrong, BOTH can be wrong.
Logic for the win.
> See "90 minutes in Heaven" or "The boy that went to heaven". Now you want to talk about something that can be tested...in the book about the Boy....he knew details about his experience that NO ONE could have know. Let me ask...how do you know your right?...you can't test it.
First of all, how many people have experiences and do not accurately reproduce what went on. Are they publicized? Of course not. Now, if we take a look at all the people having near death experiences, don't you think one might get it right by chance?
Second of all, you don't seem to understand that I don't need to know that I'm right. Not believing is the logical default for all claims. I could be wrong, I could be right but without evidence I simply won't know. Therefore it's not worth consideration.
You need to get your head together man. You're not thinking right.
@CW
"No faith has never been proven wrong"
We'll ignore the double negative in the above statement.
By your own logic, any deity with a believer is a True God because you can't prove otherwise.
@Doc The one sentence refutations of an argument are the most elegant.
Doc and Bobinator,
Thanks so much for your posts. True, you will most likely never get through to bone-headed, mush-minded CW; but there *are* folks out there who are still looking at all of the options.
Which God in Bible? the one Called Jesus? because according to the bible God had a Son!! and now there are two Gods. THE GOD and Jesus his son!!! kind of confusing isn't it. but I am sure there is an explanation.
Don't forget Mrs. God.
Don't forget about the Holy Spirit. Everybody seems to forget about the Holy Spirit. Except for Evander Holyfield.
God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are 3 parts of the same whole.
Any religion that can worship a trinity and still call itself monotheistic can rationalize any kind of nonsense.
Whatever makes you sleep better at night Doc. 🙂 Have a great morning!
Ignorance about a complexity does not negate it's validity.
It is not a logical impossibility because the trinity doesn't say, "God is three and not three". It says, "God is three and one" (like saying, "God is X and not X" vs "God is X and also Y".
So you have to ask, how is God X and Y?
Today's bible is kind of confusing, isn't it.
Have you ever read the Bible carefully (if ever)...There are no two or three gods...only One God...with three characteristics...Father, Son and the Holy Spirit...as it is written in John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it. And in John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. And again in John 1:32-34 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”
God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same one God..but with different characteristics...as Jesus Himself said in John 8: 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Jesus is the only Way, Truth and Life...may He open your and others' eyes for you may be saved....
Yes, there is an explanation: Jesus is God INCARNATE, and you can believe this or not it's your own choice.
You mean God's wife Asherah?
God exist in three equal persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That doesn't mean that there are are 3 Gods. Compare it to water, how many substances come from water, 3, liquid, steam, and ice/solid, One substance, water, three elements, each used to serve its purpose.
CW..If I understand it, Mohammed came after Christ...so, the bible we as Christians would read, wouldn't have a reference to him.
The Old Testament was written centuries before Jesus, yet has tons of references to Him.
may be you don't know that Muslims and their prophet procalim that his name is mentioned in the Bible and therefore we should also believe in him..which we Christians can't..because Jesus is the Son of God our Father in heaven...which Muhammad, Muslims and Islam deny...
Stephen said: "The Old Testament was written centuries before Jesus, yet has tons of references to Him."
Yeah ... show us one. Show us an unambiguous passage from the old testament that references Jesus by name.
I completely agree. Please reference exactly where in the Bible it references Jesus Christ by name. Please do not reference any ambiguous passages. We want empirical proof that he is mentioned. I mean if they could truly see in the future that the son of God was coming down to save mankind from our sins it would logically follow that they could forecast something as easy as his name.
But we all know that you cant. Because it is not true.
There are over 300 prophesies that the old testement claimed about the coming Messiah. Jesus fulfilled every one of them. No, none of them mentioned Him by name. However, if you want to look at it from a rational standpoint, why don't you try calculating the odds of someone fulfilling every one of those prophecies? Why is it so hard for you to believe?
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul all read the OT. How CONVENIENT that their writings show that their hero matched the 'prophecies'.
@Apophis
"Yeah ... show us one. Show us an unambiguous passage from the old testament that references Jesus by name."
haha, you had to add in "by name" because you know that there are references to Jesus and the only thing you have to hold onto is that his earthly name is not mentioned.
Don't believe in mohammed....he is never spoke of in the Bible. Truly a shame that this gentlemen is being led astray. Hope he finds he is way back to the one true God of the Bible.
I hope one day YOU find the truth in the flying spaghetti monster. Very Christ-like of you to judge. Pathetic.
My fairytale is better than your fairytale. You all need to wake up
CW,
Um I am a Christian myself but if you knew anything about Islam, then you would know they worship the same God you do. They speak of "Allah" which is what some Jews still call "God". He has many names but he is the same God for Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
Sorry, but your magical juju isn't any more real than this gentleman's magical juju.
The only true deity is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You will all bow to his noodley appendage.
He exchanged ONE FAIRY TALE FOR ANOTHER! Now he has a NEW imaginary friend! It is all bunk.
Don't believe in me... I was never mentioned in the bible either.
That's like saying Don't follow christianity because Jesus was never spoken of in the old testament.
How do you know that the Bible is the one and only.
The Bible is an incomplete book....so maybe he was mentioned
All hail the spaghetti monster.
Actually it does a couple times and in the Hebrew bible it is by name but thats ok. Hopefully you come to the truth.
Correction. Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible and in the Torah. In fact, if you asked someone to read you the passage in the original language of the Torah in which his, Muhammad's, name is mentioned, you would know this. You can look that up on Youtube. So please do research and get your facts right before making a statment you don't have knowledge of.
TN1
Christianity believes in a Triune God (trinity). Is this the same God as the Islamic God? Nope. Christians claim Jesus is God, and ask a Muslim believes that. They'll say, 'No".
Uneducated people should not be allowed to post comments. I doubt you have read the full new and old testament, Torah or Quran. Once you read them, come back and repost with what you learn about God's religions.
Let see if you have an original text of bible avaliable to Christian community. ave you ever asked the question that why there is so much secrecy and hiding by the vaticans and Christians are not allowed to enterfare in their archives whereas Muslims are welcomed to onlook at each and every part of their religious places and archives. Another thing Christians must have asked that why they donot have the same text of Bible to all Christians. On the other hand Muslims either lives in any part of world either Shia or Sunni have the exact same Quran reveled by Prophet Muhammad till today. Muhammad is mentioned as the prophet to come in each and every text reveled by Almighty but people who mad nad still makings Bucks outof Faith hid it with contant alterations. I welcome Mathew to the Islam .
Truth is, had he embraced "true" worship of the one TRUE God, he would have never sought elsewhere. I think we use the term christian gemerically here and that's the problem. A true Christian (notice the caps here) is a FOLLOWER of Christ, not just say the words "I'm a christian". I'm ashamed of what the world thinks about Amercian chistians. We (not all) don't believe or follow our own professed faith. This young man likely never gave the devotion to Christ that he has learned to give to Mohammed.
@ TN1,
I agree I don't know a lot about islam but if he is worshiping the same God as we do...then why even call yourself Islamic?....Just say your a christian. My problem is that they worship Mohammed...as well. Can't have two Gods...just one.
Truth is, had he embraced "true" worship of the one TRUE God, he would have never sought elsewhere. I think we use the term christian gemerically here and that's the problem. A true Christian (notice the caps here) is a FOLLOWER of Christ, not just say the words "I'm a christian". I'm ashamed of what the world thinks about Amercian chistians. We (not all) don't believe or follow our own professed faith. This young man likely never gave the devotion to Christ that he has learned to give to Mohammed.
I think most of the Bible was written around 300 AD or before. Since Mohammad was born around 570 AD, you really shouldn't be surprised that Mohammad is not in the Bible.
But really ... who cares? They're all fairy tales.
The Bible is mostly concerned with events and people that predate Mohammed and Islam; so it wouldn't have written about either. Especially the Old Testament which was written before Jesus, Christianity, Mohammed, and Islam. While the Good Book does not discuss Mohammed it DOES discuss Ishmael, of the line of Abraham. It says in Genesis that Ishmael would also father a great nation (meaning the Arab people), and Abraham would be the father of MANY nations. Further, while the Bible some what predates the Quran, the Quran talks about Jesus quite a bit. Also, just as Christians do, Islam observes the Old Testament and Jesus' teachings as the truth. Food for thought.
Truly a shame that either of you believe in this nonsense.
Tell me one thing in the Bible, or person written about in the Bible, that occured or existed after 200AD.
Who's Bible are we talking about? You can go to any bookstore and take your pick. If its the word of God, it did not require editing: every group/sect edits it to suit their purposes ( King James Bible being just one expample). The fact that Man has edited it renders the whole idea of "literal truth" moot. Quit wasting your time with this, you'll find more truth in Harry Potter, Star Trek, or the Lord of the Rings than you will in the Bible du jour.
The bible says an amazing amount of crazy and contradictory things. The talking snake and the guy that lived in the whale are only scratching the surface.
I am a rational person and educated enough to know that this book was passed down for 500 years by word of mouth alone. I cant say one sentence and pass it around a room without it being altered.
There are dramatic differences in the first two printed versions.
And yet people quote it as though it is absolute and exact. How irrational.
From somebody who can speak objectively on the relative merits of both religions since I have no vested interest or emotional attachments to the "truthiness" of either:
Both religions are equally absurd, dangerous, and can and do justify tremendous acts cruelty in the world.
TN1 – you demonstrate the ignorance as much as this convert; he'd probably say the same thing... but ask any Imam or former M O S L E M and you'll find out they definitely do not believe as Christians believe... I'd recommend you expose yourself as an unbeliever or start to do something with the rebirth you received when confessing Christ Savior (you did do that right?)...
Thor isn't mentioned in the bible either, doesn't mean he isn't real.
@BnB
You demonstrate a bit a dyslexia. I did not say that they worship the same, I stated that they believe in the same God. Again, Christians can't agree on a certain way to worship so why should another religion? And I have experienced life as an unbeliever. But guess what? Even if your an unbeliever you are still believing. You are believing that there is no greater plan for the afterlife. I chose to believe in something else. Not once have I brought my personal beliefs into this commentary. I'm simply stating facts!
@ Mao
Christians can all agree on God the father, which is who Muslims believe in. The other two, Holy Spirit and Jesus, have been a matter of debate for centuries. Islam derives from Judaism.
@T1
Irrelevant. Christian doctrine includes a triune God. Just because there are people who disagree doesn't mean that the Triune God of the Bible and the Koran Allah the same.
The issue you have is not whether Christianity and Islam have the same God but whether the Bible teaches a triune God.
@ Mao. yes, Christians believe in the trinity but just because Muslims don't understand the "triune" concept doesn't mean they don't worship God. I'll cite the Biblical example of Nickademus struggling with overcoming his own inability to understand rebirth. Doesn't mean Nickademus was a bad guy, it just means that he didn't get it. You can't fault any one for lacking the capability of understanding an infinite God.
@CW, no silly, they do not worship Muhammed. As a matter of fact they're are strictly prohibited from creating an image of him to avoid just that.
@ atheists/agnostics/non believers I'll never get why you guys care so much about what other people believe in....yes, we get it, you think we're stupid. Moving on now.
@that's because
Christians believe in the trinity but just because Muslims don't understand the "triune" concept doesn't mean they don't worship God. I'll cite the Biblical example of Nickademus struggling with overcoming his own inability to understand rebirth. Doesn't mean Nickademus was a bad guy, it just means that he didn't get it. You can't fault any one for lacking the capability of understanding an infinite God.
This has nothing to do with understanding but of accepting and acting. Do Muslims worship Jesus?
Now with Nic in John 3, great story, love it. Good words. But that isn't about being good is it, but knowing and acting. Could he have been born again under his current understanding? No, he was looking to a physical birth "How can a man be born when he is old? Surely he cannot enter into his mothers womb to be born." It was only through Jesus and knowing who he is that Nic could get the story straight (which didn't happen at that time). Likewise Muslims don't have it right because they don't know who Jesus really is. Did not Jesus say to the Samaritan woman in John 5, "A time is coming when the true worshipers of God will worship in spirit and in truth"? Can you worship God in truth when you attach errors upon God?
Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but through Him. If anyone comes to you with any other doctrine they are a false prophet.