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 Members of the Lexington Muslim community pray at the Masjid Bilal Ibn Rabah mosque.
March 31st, 2011
01:00 AM ET
Kentucky's Libyan community prays for homelandEditor’s Note: CNN’s Soledad O’Brien chronicles the dramatic fight over the construction of a mosque in the heart of the Bible belt. Watch “Unwelcome: The Muslims Next Door,” airing at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET April 2 on CNN. By John Sepulvado, CNN Lexington, Kentucky (CNN) – The parking lot in suburban Lexington begins filling up around 1 p.m. Men park their compact cars and file in through one side of a ranch-house-style building. Women leave their large SUVs and head through another door. As they remove their shoes, the men talk about the conflicts in North Africa and the Middle East – especially in Libya. Several young boys crawl on the red carpet, while the women, wearing brightly colored headscarves, read quietly to their daughters in the back of the room. One at a time, the adults take to their knees and pray to themselves. The girls continue reading while the boys quietly whisper and laugh. Then a tall man wearing a white cap and rimmed glasses stands at the front of the room. As Ihsan Bagby begins to talk, even the restless children fall quiet at the Masjid Bilal Ibn Rabah mosque. Bagby, an associate professor at the University of Kentucky and one of the mosque’s rotating imans, speaks with a call-and-response cadence often heard in Southern Baptist churches. He begins with a message tailored for the Libyan congregants, many of whom are political refugees opposed to Moammar Gadhafi’s regime. "We're not going to falter because the task is hard, just because it looks difficult. ... No, no! Don't focus on that!" Bagby says. "We think of all the people who are struggling simply for the right to participate, and it's something that we as Muslims should believe in, and we ask Allah to pour out to them ... success in this world." His voice rises and falls as he preaches the importance of sabr, an Islamic principle that combines patience and steadfastness. Click on the play button to hear Bagby preach and learn more about the Muslim community's prayers for peace in Libya:"A true Muslim has to have sabr," Bagby says. "It is a sin for us to retreat. We can apply this to all of our challenges in life. And Allah knows that we live in a time when in which we are tested. “Here in this country, the King hearing, and the loud voices that are speaking up in state assemblies, in politicians’ speeches, in talk radio, in TV ... we hear all types of terrible things. It's going to be a challenge for us, as a Muslim community." Bagby looks down for a moment, then raises his head and his voice. "But the key is simple: Allah is with those who have sabr, who don't give up." While Muslims in Tennessee, New York, Florida and Michigan have faced protests over of their religion, the congregants – part of a small, thriving, tight-knit Libyan community in Lexington – say they feel embraced by the local community and comfortable practicing their religion. "I love Lexington," says 30-year resident Ibrahim Bakoush. "I would tell anyone to come to Lexington, it's a great place. Come on over. I've been telling people to come here for 25 years ... mainly because I was alone at first," he says, smiling. "But seriously, I have always felt welcome here." Even Bagby, a University of Kentucky scholar once labeled a "dangerous professor" by conservative author David Horowitiz, recently said in a newspaper interview that Muslims in Kentucky have been spared from popular backlash seen in other states. "The community has not been under any real threat here and has not experienced any violence," Bagby told the Lexington-Herald Leader. "Overall, I think the experience of Muslims in Kentucky has been very good." Home for refugees In the early 1980s, Wafa Nashnoush's family was on the run. Married to a Libyan opposition leader, Nashnoush says her family was being hunted by Moammar Gadhafi. The family moved from Egypt to Europe to the U.S., then back to Europe during a 3-year span. "Europe at the time was full of pro-Gadhafi mafia and gangs, and he was hunting opposition groups," says Nashnoush. "And the Middle East – one day you are safe, then the next you are threatened."  Wafa Nashnoush has lived in Lexington, Kentucky, for three decades. By 1986, she had given birth to three sons in Arizona, Pennsylvania and Kentucky. Nashoush says the family's constant migration was exciting, as she met many people and saw different cities. Rapper's music spreads freedom for Libya message "But once our kids were approaching school age, we needed to seriously consider a home for our children," she says. "Lexington was the right size, away from any Libyan gatherings where Gadhafi’s men might be hiding." The Lexington residents, meanwhile, have been extremely supportive, Nashnoush says. "Even after 9/11, while there was a backlash across the country, in Lexington, people would come and ask us if we were OK, if we felt safe, if we needed a ride home from work," Nashnoush adds. "Lexington is a warm and inviting community." Word about Lexington has spread. Nashnoush estimates there were a few dozen Muslim families here in the mid-1980s. Today, various estimates put the number of Muslims in Lexington at about 2,700. Many in the community, including Nashnoush and Bakoush, say the University of Kentucky – along with a diverse and tolerant population accepting of different religious practices – attracts Muslims to the community. Some Lexington Muslims have been contemplating expanding the local mosque and possibly building an Islamic center similar to those that have drawn protests in other cities. Nashnoush says she believes the community would accept an expansion of the Masjid Bilal Ibn Rabah mosque. "If we had the resources to build a bigger mosque or build an Islamic center, I doubt the non-Muslim residents would oppose that," Nashnoush says. You can listen to the CNN Radio Reports podcast on
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Americans should obtain righteousness as society. A righteous society has no fear but can accommodate Muslims or anyone. American society has lots of fears because it got immoral.
Nice hallucination. Tell me, how does someone in southeast asia think she knows so much more about america than americans?
@Sum Dude,
If we do away with relegious freedom it will not do away with relegion just the freedom to practice a different one. I think what you want is to do away with relegion but not relegious freedom. If do away with relegious freedom one relegion can become the state relegion and we will have to follow it. From your comments I don't think itwhat you inteneded I for one one not appreciate it. I prefer to choose my own relegion.
@Ed
Ah, I see what you mean. You're quite right. Getting rid of religion first should be the way to go, that way everyone can enjoy their freedoms while their religions gradually disappear. Sounds good to me. 😛
So we're agreed there should be freedom of relegion. You just don't think there should be relegion at all. That is what i thought you meant. On that point I will have to disagree. I do beleive if in God but I also respect your choice and right not too.
Cultural diversity to the depth, that those who choose to be blind and the politically correct want it to be practiced, will be the doom of this country. I don't see how so many people cannot see it coming. There are perfect examples of what we have to look forward to happening right now in England and France.
Now don't take that to mean that I am against all religions or religious freedom in america. I just have a problem with any religion that has not evolved enough in this day and age, to be beyond worshipping the ramblings of a pedophile prophet. One that believes women are property and treats them no better. One that believes their religious law is the one that should be practiced/recognized as the only law, especially in a country like our with a set of secular laws already in place.
Monk
Cultural diversity to the depth, that those who choose to be blind and the politically correct want it to be practiced, will be the doom of this country. I don't see how so many people cannot see it coming. There are perfect examples of what we have to look forward to happening right now in England and France.
Now don't take that to mean that I am against all religions or religious freedom in america. I just have a problem with any religion that has not evolved enough in this day and age, to be beyond worshipping the ramblings of a pedophile prophet. One that believes women are property and treats them no better. One that believes their religious law is the one that should be practiced/recognized as the only law, especially in a country like our with a set of secular laws already in place.
I didn't know we were talking about Mormons.....
@Monk
For what it's worth, I am against freedom of religion, but I am legally restricted to speechifying my concerns, as are you.
If I were to commit a physical act against a religion I would probably be breaking the law. That law protects me as well, so until we can figure out how to get rid of religion and all the madness it brings we are going to have to bear with the more peaceful and accepting elements within American society.
I am pretty burnt out on arguing religion and how it is a madness throughout the world. The religious do not listen, for their ears have been plugged with BS, so most of your rants are a waste of time, I think.
And if you have a religion, then you need to be extremely careful in what you say here, because anything you propose or declare regarding a different religion can almost always be applied to your own. Down with all religions! But when?
Not today. We can't even get together on ethics, one of the most important areas for any country.
But if we can go attack these people, we should only do it in a way that is fair and equitable for all parties.
Equality is the hallmark of our country – or at least that's how it's supposed to go. Obviously it needs some work, eh?
Glad I left too. Having a full set of teeth, a house that cannot be put on a trailer, and an IQ above Gump totally disqualifies me from ever being a Southerner.
So is this the taking over of America by Muslims? They can have 3% population of Lexington, Kentucky for all I care.
Check what is happening in England and France, then compare that to recent events in Oklahoma and Florida. By they way, that 3% is growing.
I'm with Peace2All and nonimus
Aaaaah, another one that chooses blindness. I'm sorry.
There is nothing so pitiful as the blind who choose not to see, i.e. folks like Nonimus and Peace2all. I'm not trying to single you out specifically, but folks that think we should be as blind with "tolerance and acceptance," as you two seem to think we should be.
Blind? to what? The Const.itution that states everyone's right to religious freedom as well as their right to express themselves? Someone famous once said something like, "infringe on the rights of one and you infringe on the rights of all."
Another famous person supposedly said, "what you do to least, you do to me."
Nonimus, open your mind, do some serious in depth research, investigate what is happening in europe. What happens in europe eventually crosses the "pond." That is the reason we should pay close attention to the examples coming out of Europe. The blindness in this country is due party to our size. The take over is happening quicker in European countries due to their smaller sizes and populations
@Monk
Hey there -Monk...
I 'do' understand where you are coming from. My point, and possibly -Nonimus(although he can certainly speak for himself) is that to sweepingly overgeneralize that 'all' Muslim's are evil... awful human beings trying to dominate the U.S., and the rest of the world is just ....wrong.
I personally know, a number of hard-working, family loving...kind, considerate, contributing Americans, who happen to be Muslim, and they in no way shape or form are fitting the 'evil' picture that you seemingly are trying to 'swipe' 'all' Muslim's with that 'evil' brush..so-to-speak.
And as for the Qur'an, etc... yes... i have read it... and much like the Bible and other 'holy' books, "people" will create their own interpretations and 'act' on them as they see fit.
And, geographically speaking, I don't think we can say culturally that 'everyone' is on an equal setting here. Muslim's in America... are not of the same ilk as some of the hard-core extremists in Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, etc...
Respectfully,
Peace...
Peace2All - It is the religion of Islam that is evil...not the people.
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” - Steven Weinberg
Peace2all, ordinarily I would be in the same camp as you and partially with Nonimus. But, observing what is happening in the world, i.e. Europe, our own back yard, Oklahoma and Florida, statistics/numbers, I can't fully agree with you guys and your whole hearted support of "tolerance and acceptance."
Bethe123, You are right to a degree, though christianity of the old testament wasn't real nice either. That is where my point of christianity evolving and ilsam staying completely unchanged since its inception by the pedophile prophet.
@Peace2all,
Well said!
@Bethe123,
I don't necessarily disagree with you, in that all religions may ultimately be harmful, but I won't support arbitrary distinctions between people's beliefs; actions certainly, but not beliefs.
@Monk,
If you have evidence of sedition, armed rebellion, conspiracy to overthrow the government, or terrorism at any stage of planing, definitely, report it to the authorities and I'll help capture and prosecute them, if I can. But if all you have is, "look what some other people did," or "this is what they believe, whether they say so or not," then you aren't helping anyone.
Muslims just like Christians don't all believe the same thing. If I understand correctly, most of the "Islamic state" references are in the Hadiths, which not all Muslims follow equally.
But more importantly, Muslims just like Christians in this country are required to obey the secular law. If Christians can do it while at the same time supposedly obeying God's law, then why can't Muslims.
And finally, "Under God" got added the the Pledge during McCarthyism and the Red scare of the Fifties are we now going to alter it again?
"One nation under [the Christian] God, indivisible..."
@Bethe123
Hi Bethe123...
You Said: "Peace2All – It is the religion of Islam that is evil...not the people."
So... it appears you are now making a sweeping generalization about a 'whole religion'... which by the way...Islam, like Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, etc... are what as known as................. 'intangibles.' So, I ask you how can an 'intangible' such as a 'religion' be 'evil', when by your very comment...
You Said: "It is the religion of Islam that is evil...(not the people)."...? So, like 'all' religious or non-religious people, they (the people) can commit heinous acts, often deluding themselves in their very radical interpretations of their respective 'religions,'...including Islam, and yes... Christianity.
You Then Quoted –Steven Weinberg: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” – Steven Weinberg
-Bethe123... I think you may have created a 'double-bind' for yourself with your comment above, and now your 'quote' from Weinberg here.
Respectfully,
Peace...
@Monk
Hi Monk...
You Said: "Peace2all, ordinarily I would be in the same camp as you and partially with Nonimus. But, observing what is happening in the world, i.e. Europe, our own back yard, Oklahoma and Florida, statistics/numbers, I can't fully agree with you guys and your whole hearted support of "tolerance and acceptance."
I am not suggesting that you fully agree with me and @Nonimus. Again, I understand where you are coming from. My whole point is about the 'sweeping over-generalizations' aspect that I see in many posts... i.e... that ...'ALL Muslim's are evil, the religion of Islam is 'ALL' evil, etc...
I do believe that we need to be watchful of 'any' radicalized and crazed fringe group, whether they are Muslim, Christian, etc... or even some crazed atheists.
I'm very happy to hear that we at least have...'some' agreement here, on both sides.
Good discussion... -Monk...thanks for chatting !
Respectfully,
Peace...
@Bethe123
HI Bethe123...
***Sorry... I had an additional 'fine point' to add that didn't make it in my post to you above:
Your quote from Steven Weinberg: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” – Steven Weinberg
So... with that quote, by definition, 'ALL' religions would fit into his quote, including...Christianity, yes...?
Respectfully,
Peace...
@Nonimus
Thank you... and to you as well !
Peace...
Peace2All
- I only meant to communicate I do not have anything against any individual Muslim...any particular individual could in fact be quite righteous and moral...
For example, if I read the Quran today, convert to Islam tomorrow, and never tell anybody, and keep my belief private and do not impose it on anybody, then I am not sure anybody could object to that...and this forum would not even exist in that case.
But Islam seems to require a little more of its followers than a passive belief...and it is the principles of Islam, and I suppose the example of Mohammed, since he represents the ideal man in Islam, that is evil.
@nonimus, did your reply to me have anything at all to do with what I said? I must have missed something, it looked to me like you were attributing words to me that were not mine.
@Monk,
"did your reply to me have anything at all to do with what I said? I must have missed something, it looked to me like you were attributing words to me that were not mine."
Sorry, the quotes were not intended to be attributed to you, but are example statements. I should have been more clear;
[You said, "...do some serious in depth research, investigate what is happening in europe. What happens in europe eventually crosses the 'pond.'"] If you have evidence of sedition, armed rebellion, conspiracy to overthrow the government, or terrorism at any stage of planing [or other tangible threats to this country], definitely, report it to the authorities and I'll help capture and prosecute them, if I can. But if all you have is [evidence such as], 'look what some other people did,' or 'this is what they believe, whether they say so or not,' then you aren't helping anyone.
You said, "blind with 'tolerance and acceptance.'" [First, I'm not tolerant and accepting of Islam, but a person's right to believe in Islam or Christinaity or Hindu or Paganisn and practise that religion.] Muslims just like Christians don't all believe the same thing. If I understand correctly, most of the "Islamic state" references are in the Hadiths, which not all Muslims follow equally.
But more importantly, Muslims just like Christians in this country are required to obey the secular law. If Christians can do it while at the same time supposedly obeying God's law, then why can't Muslims.
And finally, "Under God" got added the the Pledge during McCarthyism and the Red scare of the Fifties are we now going to alter it again?
"One nation under [the Christian] God, indivisible..."
@Bethe123
Hi Bethe123...
You Said: "Peace2All– I only meant to communicate I do not have anything against any individual Muslim...any particular individual could in fact be quite righteous and moral..."
And, in reality, shouldn't that be the case for most anyone...? Judging an individual by their 'actions'...? Religious or non-religious...? Muslim or Christian...? ,yes...?
You Said: "For example, if I read the Qur'an today, convert to Islam tomorrow, and never tell anybody, and keep my belief private and do not impose it on anybody, then I am not sure anybody could object to that...and this forum would not even exist in that case.
But Islam seems to require a little more of its followers than a passive belief...and it is the principles of Islam, and I suppose the example of Mohammed, since he represents the ideal man in Islam, that is evil."
So... what if we took that exact 'example' you made, and made substi-tutions and re-wrote it like this...."For example, if I read the (Bible) today, convert to (Christianity) tomorrow, and never tell anybody, and keep my beliefs private and do not impose it on anybody, then I am not sure anybody could object to that, etc..."
That very same argument is one being leveled at a lot of the Christians for their overt proselytizing, yes...? So, in essence, if I am understanding your as-sertion correctly... it's o.k.. for Christians to be loud and proselytize, but peace loving Muslim's must remain quiet, and not let anyone know 'their faith'...?
And when you say..."It's the principle's of Islam that are evil".... Once again, 'the principles of Islam' are well open to 'many' interpretations...just like the Bible is open to 'many' interpretations. If everyone followed a lot of what is in the Bible, or took it out of context... sure, you will find enough horror and terror for the 'radicalized fringes' to believe in and create terror and atrocities on people in the world. And again, a lot of it is 'geographical'... just like I believe, is it the 'Congo'...? where it is predominantly Christian, and they are imposing horrible terror on non-believers, and hom-o-se-xuals, etc...
I think we are getting closer to being a bit more on the same page here -Bethe123, yes...?
Respectfully,
Peace...
Sorry nonimus, you won't get it until you are required to either convert to islam or be killed. At this point in time there is no overt evidence of violent overthrow of the government. There is evidence of shria law being "pushed" politically in non muslim countries, i.e. england and france. There is also evidence of it being "pushed," already in this country.
There is a man on trial in florida right now for killing his 14 year old daughter for having an american boyfriend after he had already sold her in marriage to a much older man "back home." He and his lawyer are saying he was obeying sharia law and therefore should not be punished. He has the backing of the local muslim community. You have to look at things "big picture."
Peace2All
- I am not Christian...did you see me defending Christians and therefore make the assumption I am a Christian?
I thought the topic was Islam, so that is what I was discussing.
However, if you want to talk about Christianity, at one time – say during the Dark Ages - it was perhaps more evil than Islam...but the difference is it has since been reformed, but Islam has not. Sure, you can compare the two religions, but Islam always comes off far worse.
@Monk, Peace2All, Bethe123, and Nonimus, Just wanted tosay thanks it look like this want going to turn into another insult hurling blog but it didn't. All of you kept it a civil intelligent conversation discussing your various pounts of view. You made some good points with out being rude or mean. This is the frist time I've seen this and I wanted to say thanks to each of you. So thanks.
I understand people concern over Islamic activity in America. I agree that any one of any belief relegious or not need to respect the laws of the land people of other beliefs as long as they can do that they should be allowed to follow their belief openly. If we have open dialogue with people of different Belief systems then I think we can get a long without feeling the need to interfer with each others belief.
@Bethe123
You Said: "Peace2All-I am not Christian...did you see me defending Christians and therefore make the assumption I am a Christian?
I thought the topic was Islam, so that is what I was discussing."
No... I did not make that as-sumption. (But... if it read that way to you, my apologies). I was merely using Christianity, and other religions...(see my earlier posting to you) to make my counter arguments.
So, really we are talking about where you started out by, and have seen you in other postings, making 'sweeping over-generalizations' about Muslim's and Islam, which you have now, through our discussions, (at least with me) amended or got a bit more specific, which was my intention in our discussion.
You Said: "However, if you want to talk about Christianity, at one time – say during the Dark Ages – it was perhaps more evil than Islam...but the difference is it has since been reformed, but Islam has not. Sure, you can compare the two religions, but Islam always comes off far worse."
I would say, again depending on 'geographically'... you will find atrocities being committed by Muslim's...and Christians alike. I would certainly agree, given that geographical and cultural 'frame' that, sure... if you look mostly at Afghanistan, etc... you will surely find, for the most part, what you speak of.
But, not so much here in America, yes...? I mean we have our 'crazies' and 'radical fringe groups/individuals' here....whether religious or non-religious.
Respectfully,
Peace...
@Ed
Thank you... You know, I've been bloggin here on the CNN belief blog going on almost a year now, and I do appreciate those occasions, when the discussions are quite 'civil' with, I believe everyone attempting to learn from each other.
So... thanks for your contributions and noticing !
Respectfully,
Peace...
I will support my friends Peace2All and Nonimus even though we might disagree on the occasional detail or somesuch.
I live in the USA and the Constltution is the Supreme Law, not any religious text, so I would rather follow the Constltution than go against it.
I prefer to work within the system even though it is pretty messed up. It is all we have and better than any religious "justice".
I hate religions like Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. because they have followers who we describe as "fundamentalists".
The religious texts are behind so many crazy and vicious actions done by individual followers that it is fairly impossible to separate the two in my mind.
Many of the nasty ones used the words of their "god" to do evil, therefore the words are definitely wrong for people like them, as they cannot handle the words in an intelligent and peaceful manner.
But Peace2All and others are putting the emphasis on the individual, rather than the common words and justifications used by the individuals.
This is okay with me, as the end results are so similar, but without the "words of their god" they likely wouldn't have been motivated in such an agitated manner in the first place.
Attacking Americans is not okay here. If you must attack the religion, do it without also attacking your fellow Americans and you might actually make some progress towards your goals.
Ranting about the whole thing trips you up – and we will point that out when we can.
Ed – You are obviously new here, welcome. People like Peace2All and Nonimus are rare but they are very often a powerful force for peaceful and calm discussion. They've calmed me down more than once. I'm one of the rabid ones. 😛
CNN should change it's name to the Kiss Muslims' Asses New Network. With all the things going on in the world, CNN contiunes to cover stories about Muslims in the US. No one cares what they have to say, CNN, unless it's that they are leaving.
This American cares what they have to say.
@Ralph
I agree with @Nonimus here. And, you and "Truthseeker" up above might want to get together and see if you can find a little bit of balance and understanding in your zealotry, yes...?
Respectfully,
Peace...
I'm an Arab Christian. Sorry Nominus and Peace2All, but you are both cases of political correctness run amok. Ralph is hitting the nail on the head– nothing good comes from having a large Muslim population; just ask the Christians in Egypt, Libya, Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Turkey and on and on and on....
I will follow the law and let them practice their religion here. I don't have a choice on that. Our Constltution says we have to.
But they aren't getting any slack from me when they do illegal acts under color of religion.
I'm not saying they all do this or this happens all the time, but it does happen every now and then, so we just need to make sure that they understand their religion does not mean they can break our nation's laws.
Now if we could change the Constltution to further define the legal parameters on what is considered acceptable religious expression, then the Supreme Court won't have to waste as much time spelling everything out for the religious nutbars who think they can do whatever they want.
@George
I would 'second' @Sum Dude's posting, and add... I notice that you listed countries that have a certain geography and cultural and socio-economic level(at least for its population), yes...?
So, where is it... the 'Congo' (just mentioning one Christian dominated country that is similar in comparison) where it is predominantly Christian and they are brutalizing anyone who is a non-believer, or... especially the gay's...? Yeah, they just love to cause terror and death on 'non-Christians.'
But, there is relatively little, if anything of that kind of nature going on here... in the U.S. I thoroughly believe that our U.S. Consti-tution rules. Of course, sharia law, nor any kind of Christian, 'faith-based' issues should replace the secular laws in our society. On that we agree.
If, in fact -George you are as you say, an 'Arab Christian' and you live somewhere... where you are being harmed somehow, may you find your way to some resolution and peace.
Respectfully,
Peace...
I'm an Arab Christian. Sorry Nominus and Peace2All, but you are both cases of political correctness run amok. Ralph is hitting the nail on the head– nothing good comes from having a large Muslim population; just ask the Christians in Egypt, Libya, Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Turkey and on and on and on....
@George
I would 'second' @Sum Dude's posting, and add... I notice that you listed countries that have a certain geography and cultural and socio-economic level(at least for its population), yes...?
So, where is it... the 'Congo' (just mentioning one Christian dominated country that is similar in comparison) where it is predominantly Christian and they are brutalizing anyone who is a non-believer, or... especially the gay's...? Yeah, they just love to cause terror and death on 'non-Christians.'
But, there is relatively little, if anything of that kind of nature going on here... in the U.S. I thoroughly believe that our U.S. Consti-tution rules. Of course, sharia law, nor any kind of Christian, 'faith-based' issues should replace the secular laws in our society. On that we agree.
If, in fact -George you are as you say, an 'Arab Christian' and you live somewhere... where you are being harmed somehow, may you find your way to some resolution and peace.
Respectfully,
Peace...
*Sorry for the -double post !
Peace...
@Sum Dude,
Not asking you to give them slack if they break the law. If they or anyone breaks the law they should be held accountable regardless of they faith or beleif system. But to activity seek to catch a certain group becasue you disagree with that group is a form of discrimination and also against the law. hating any group just because they are that group is prejudice and also wrong
@Ed – When I hate a group, it is in specific terms for specific reasons and I do not prejudge them as such but only use what information I can gather about them before making a decision on how I view what they do as individuals or as a group.
I try to anticipate any possible changes for the better and I am more than glad to receive better and more accurate information on any group, as more information tends to resolve many details and previously unanswered questions.
I do not discriminate against people if that's what you are saying. I am seeking the truth of any matter so I do my best to remain open to new ideas and fresh data.
But religion is guilty. I have researched it enough and have discussed it enough so I am certain that it needs to be removed from human society. This does not mean that I go around attacking people at all. This blog is the only place where I actively fight against religion. My family is mostly religious, so I am used to not saying anything nasty in person, plus I try to be as understanding as I can when their beliefs cause them to do nonsensical things.
But all this tolerance for religion has a negative side, and my anger can sometimes build up within me. That's when I come here and vent, a thunderous and vicious attack upon the fundies!
And the fundies deserve it as a group! But if I run into someone who can't handle my vitriol, I do my best to calm down and apologize, as they are too tender to be allowed on the internet anyways.
I am not racist, for there is no logical reason to be against any so-called "race". And everyone is an individual after all. 😛
But religions are insane. They have very few redeeming factors in general, although many nice people might follow a particular religion, it grieves me sorely to see them being taken advantage of by their religion.
Religion is BS and always will be....unless someone finally finds good proof of their god, in which case we can all wonder out loud why this god never contacts anyone or does anything.
These people should go home to Libya and other Muslim countries where they belong, rather than spreading their ugly religion and backward culture here.
@Paul,
The article didn't specify, but I assume that many of them are US citizens and are home.
>> These people should go home to Libya and other Muslim countries where they belong, rather than spreading their ugly religion and backward culture here.<<
notice how their ugly religion started popping up in your midst after your weapon systems started popping up in their midst. the correlation is remarkable.
FYI – Sabr means patience
So is there a lot of f@rting going on when these guys bend over in each others faces?
More on Islamic farting:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/1503931/Prayer-Recitation-of-Quran-and-Ablution-or-Bath?query2=islam%20fart
"Farting is problematic in Islam. During prayer, a worshipper must not fart. Sahih Bukhari (1.4.137) writes that Allah will not accept a Muslim's prayer if he/she passes wind during the ritual.
The exception occurs if the worshipper farts silently, or the fart does not smell. In such a case, he/she may continue with the prayer (ibid, 1.4.139).Sunaan Nasai (1.162) writes that if you fart during a prayer you must redo ablution. Sahih Bukhari (9.86.86) says that for a "farter" Allah will not accept his/her prayer until he/she performs another ablution."
when muslims say "give it the gas" in their prayers, thanfully they are referring to petroleum exports.
Muslims give you gas?
Me too.
From reading a lot of postings, I have come to the conclusion that the people espousing "tolerance and acceptance" of muslims should do some real in depth research, learning and analysis on their own. Anyone that does so with an open mind will be so surprised at how blind they had been. The world will be a better place without the islamic religion in it. Other religions have evolved over the centuries. Islam has not, muslims still believe in and follow their pedophile prophet. That last fact alone shows the backwardness of Isam.
make that "backwardness of Islam." I hate it when my fingers do that.
@Monk,
Very few religions pass in-depth scrutiny for "backwardness." In fact, I can't think of any right now.
@Nominus, to a small degree I agree with you, though the most backward religion that has done no evolving does seem to be Islam. Before you go all "historical" on me, yes more people have been killed in the name of "christianity" than any other religion in history, but last I checked, the crusades ended several hundred years ago. When was the last terrorist act committed by muslims...yesterday? A few christians (though some have not said they were christian) have committed terrorist acts in recent years, but the numbers and statistics are against muslims.
god forbid the islamic religion should evolve (like other religions) ans start exterminating jews in gas chambers.
Allow me to be among the first to invite you to return to your homeland and live a long and happy life.
i assume u r a native indian talking to light skinned people in a trailer park?
Search http://books.google.com for: "Ihsan Bagby" "David Horowitz" That will bring you to the passage on Bagby in Horowitz's book, cited above, and provide information that CNN felt you were too immature or stupid or unimportant to see. Read it, and if you decide to denounce Horowitz, at least your opinion will be based in a little knowledge of his work.
I wonder if CNN will ever stop kissing muslims' behinds. Nobody likes muslims and CNN won't change this by shoving articles about them down our throats, trying to "make us familiar" with them. The more I read about them and the more I see pictures of chicks wearing head scarfs or muslims praying on the floor, the more disgusted I get. All members of this medieval hate-cult should be deported ASAP.
And you win the Imbecile of the Day Award for March 31, 2011. Well done, Inbred One, well done.
D-Bones, any time you see a thread that has even the remotest thing to do with Islam, you can be sure that the imbeciles will be out in force to perform their jello-brained freak show.
Have you read the King James Bible??
YESSSSSSSSSSSS
I'm a catholic and I agree with D-bones
@Truthseeker
Hmmm.... Really...? Well, you lost me as soon as you started writing your tirade, however as soon as you said..."Nobody" likes Muslim's, that sweeping over-generalization just revealed your delusional bigotry and hatred.
I hope that you will find some kind of balance in there, yes..."Truthseeker"...?
Respectfully,
Peace...
Truthseeker - Ignore the appologists for Evil...you are correct...these CNN Muslim stories are getting tiresome.
@Bethe123
Now...we resolved these bigotry and over-generalization issues below already, didn't we...?
Respectfully,
Peace...
Peace2All -
I have made my points clear. You are the one who thinks over-generalization is being made...which is not the case at all.
Nor is bigotry occuring.
Once you think bigotry and over-generalization is happening, then the blame moves away from Islam...Make no mistake, Islam is the problem.
@Bethe123
O.K... Bethe123, I tried... Again, I know 'a lot' of peace loving, kind, warm, Muslim Americans, who practice the 'principles' of Islam, that you equate with being = to evil. These people are not evil, and their 'principles' that they 'practice' are not evil, so what are you missing here...?
Again, you 'are' in fact making a sweeping over-generalization that Islam= evil, yet the over-whelming majority of practi-tioners are 'not' evil. Nor are the over-whelming practi-tioners of Christianity evil. It becomes clear that the zealous radicalized fanatics of 'any' religion can do harm in the name of their religion and God. But, again, so can people that have 'no' religion.
Let me be clear... I am 'not' a fan of 'any' organized religion, i.e... Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc... So, I and the others here that you call 'apologists' for evil, just have a little more 'balance' and awareness that you gotta' take a look at what each individual is doing, not just 'label' a group as a whole as= evil, at least in this case.
Anyway, nice chatting with you -Bethe123...
Respectfully,
Peace...
@Peace2All
- You are either stupid or not objective, or both...and in that case, it matters not how hard you try.
Simply look at the Islamic attack on the UN offices in Pakistan today...for what? Burning a book. Nice. 10 killed, 2 beheaded. That is what you are defending.
Corection: It was Afghan Islamists...not Pakistan. My bad.
@Bethe123
I see you often resort to 'ad hominem' attacks quite often in other of your posts. You have just started it here with me. Name calling and 'insults' typically do nothing to help make one's case, such as yours, any more... less accurate than it already is.
If anything, it takes a civil discussion, and makes you lose any 'credibility', if you had any to start with.
I've addressed this from a theological, sociological, economical, geographical, and individual case. You have failed to adequately, and in most cases address 'any' of my points.
Your continued mantra is... Islam is evil.
So, I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. And again, as someone who has been on this particular blog with thousands of postings... you might want to stop the 'insults' or 'name calling,' it really doesn't help you in a discussion, and makes you look pretty silly.
I wish you well...
Respectfully,
Peace...
Required "thum-ping" for the morning prayer:
The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:
( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)
Are you ready?
Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.
The First Five of the 77 Branches:
"1. Belief in Allah"
aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.
"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."
Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".
"3. To believe in the existence of angels."
A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.
"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."
Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.
Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.
Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.
"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."
Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.
Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!
Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.
Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism .
so basically just deny what you believe and your deprogrammed. Sounds like reprogramming to a different belief to me
Helping "How did this help",
Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism .
Same question how does this help all your doing is saying stop beleiving wht you belaive and start believing what I believe
Read the following very closely:
The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:
( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)
Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism .
Atheism and agnosticism are basically "belief neutral".
No Atheism and agnosticism are just different beliefs and they don't necessarily agree with one another. You claim that your steps will save "lost souls" Atheism is a loack of faith in a diety or after life and therefore a lack of belief in a soul so ther is nothing to save. and again all you are really doing is saying stop believing in what you believe and start believing in what I believe and you will be deproammed. In fact I would merely be reprogrammed to your belief.
Would deprogramming Islam put an end to the following koranic/mosque/imam-motivated acts of terror and horror?
The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century
■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "
and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.
and more recently
1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured
1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh
2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured
3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,483 and 925 in non combat roles. 99,901 – 109,143 Iraqi civilians killed as of 3/3/2011/, mostly due to suicide bombers, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf
4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]
5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.
6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.
7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.
8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.
9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.
10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,141 killed in action, 242 killed in non-combat situations as of 03/03/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror
11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.
12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.
13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,
14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.
15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.
16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.
17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.
18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.
19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011
20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011
21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.
22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) - Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.
I doubt it
So sad to see people locked in that legalistic political, religious system, bowing (literally( and scraping to a god that is a task master.
Especially when One has freed us from all of that by taking all that religion stuff upon Himself at the cross.
have you ever read the bible or been to mass, or an evangelical worship service??? that plank in your eye must reeaaally be a pain.
Muslim's consider Jesus a Prophet, and Jesus said 600 years before Mohammad that he was "the Son of Man"....which in reality, if I was a Muslim would be blasphemy......that's why their religion is a cult!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2siw4RQSiM
@Tim
Taisez-vous.
Les citoyens de votre pays sont pharisaique et pense que votre couture est la meilleur du monde, meme si vous n'avez jamais etudier une autre.
"Overall, I think the experience of Muslims in Kentucky has been very good."
Overall, my experience in Kentucky really sucked. And Tennessee. And Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana and Arkansas. Texas especially sucked. Parts of Florida sucked, but other parts were pretty interesting.
Okay, it wasn't really the South that sucked. The only problem with the South is all the Southerners who live there.
Spoken like a true foreigner – and French. Are you proud of the Muslims ruining your native land?
What a moron. Let me do the same so you see what an idiot you are – Grimalkin, that sounds Russian. You must be one of those commie fascist socialist liberal russkies who know nothing about America. How do you like how those Gypsies are ruining your country?
Glad you left. Don't come back.
Is this that "giant suckin' sound" that Ross Perot told us we'd be hearing? The South does suck ass, but only because they haven't figured out that they lost the Civil War because they were being incredibly stupid and retarded.
Childhood malnutrition should be addressed or we're gonna have another civil war, I think. There's plenty of southerners who still want to see slavery come back and they are willing to trash and destroy the whole country if that's what it takes.
I went to a friend's wedding once where the groom was from Libya. Good food and music.
Can't say much more than that, though. The marriage blew up soon after. Oh, did I say that out loud? Damn!
I think the story is great and I am happy that we have religeous tolerance in this country. However, every time I read one of these interviews, these people never once denounce global jihad towards the United States. They are never asked once if they views us as infidels or as pillars of the same community. These reporters need to ask the tough questions. They are doing not their readers nor the Muslims they interview and favors.
So *Silk* why would they have to denounce it? Should all people of German descent denounce the Hollicost? Should people from Georgia denounce the Confederate war crimes? Should Christians denounce the Crusades? Give me a break!
RangerDOS
- Idiot. The attrocities of Islam are consistent with the Hadith and Quran. And there are many Muslims who agree with them.
That is not the case with Christians and the crusades or Germans and holocaust.
lol – a good joke. "The marriage blew up" ha ha ha ha !
you want muslims to renounce "global jihad" while you re-elect the president who openly lied to YOUR OWN FACE and illegally invaded a muslim country?